Penalties During The Minnesota Game
I finally got to watch my recording of last Sunday's Minnesota game. Right at the end of it, I was wondering why didn't RB Adrian Peterson get a personal foul for taking his helmet off immediately after his game winning TD run? I'm glad to see this is still being discussed among NFL officials. My wife suggested that since he was technically on the side line in the end zone it wasn't a penalty. I thought was a hell of a novel theory. It should have been a penalty, but I'm letting it go because the stupid No Fun League with all their stupid excess celebration penalties are annoying. I don't mind the players trying to one-up each other with a new stupid celebration. If it disrupts the game because it takes too long then just call a five yard delay of game penalty.
When I watched the first safety, I was thinking that the ball didn't cross the line of scrimmage and QB Aaron Rodgers wasn't outside the tackle box, so it probably was an illegal forward pass and a safety. I guess that's wrong, because a lot of different people are still talking about it. I'm not a rules nut, and I don't have a copy in front of me, so I'm not going to dissect the language of the rule. Obviously it made a big difference in the game, but the NFL isn't going to make the Vikings forfeit the game, so I'm letting this one go too. It was weird to watch and read how many different interpretations of one play/one rule can happena among officials. Those refs huddle up to discuss that play for a long time during the game. This is sure to be something that is addressed and cleared up in the offseason by the league and the competition committee.
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horrible call !
I’m somewhat of a rulesnut, however I’m a lot better when it comes to NCAA rules, since I’ve not been able to get a copy of the complete NFL rule book, I guess you have to be a league official or a coach to get one. But for this spesific rule/ situation, I doubth there are big differences between NFL / NCAA.
I think it’s a horrible call, for several reasons. No1. It is most definatly not an illegal forward pass like it was anounced, to be an illegal forward pass, it has to be thrown when it is illegal to throw it (i.e a second forward pass or after the ball has crosset the LOS) Ok, I’m not going to get to mad about an announcement error.
In the JS article, it is also stated that Mike Pereira said it should be announced as intententional grounding.
Intentional grounding is intentionally throwing the ball away to avoid a sack. If the passer is outside (or has been during the play) he is allowed to throw it away, he just has to make sure it crosses the los. Rodgers is on the edge of what would be the pocket, so he would be considered outside the pocket, but the ball only gets back to the 8 yd line, and los was the 10. However, T. Humphrey is about 4-5 yds away from the ball when it strikes the ground. Under other sircumstances (i.e QB gets hit when he throws it) this would be more than close enoung to wipe out an int.grounding call. But the explanation from both Mike Pereira in his review (and the refs explaining it to McCarthy in the game) said it was because it was an unnatural throwingmotion, and thereby they are a lot stricter in their rulings.
That is the part that really makes this a bad call. If this had been a pass by Brett Favre, how the heck would they be able to say it was an unnatural throwing motion?? how many times have you ever seen Favre throw a pass in a similar motion ?? ( a lot !!!)
The rules have to be the same for all players, no matter what their name is. And then, look at the philosophies of officiating, as long as it isn’t a foul regarding player safety (all personal fouls) the priniciples say, when in doubth, don’t throw the flag. We never want to call any cheap penalties, especially in a situation where the penalty would result in a safety (or other score).
I used to like Mike Pereiras explanations in official review, because he’s allways been dead on accurat, and I’ve not seen it as an attempt to protect officials integrety, but in this one I think he does. Hopefully, Alberto Riveron (the ref) and his crew will get a downgrade in their evaluation from official supervisors, but ofcourse they’re not public.
I’m not going to be surprised if the NFL puts this in as a legal play, in their apporved rulings next season.
There was also other bad calls in this game, take the play right before the play we just talked about, Korey Hall gets called for holding, that was a real ticky-tack call, it is his intital block that pushes Jarred Allen out of balance and out of posision to make the tackle, yes, his arms are around J.As leg, but it isn’t restricting him in any way, that is a lot easier to see on TV /game film than live during the game, but still a bad call. Escpecially since sometime in the second half, a Viking lineman is tackling Ryan Picket right at the point of attack, and is not flaged for holding.
by Jarlsberg on Nov 13, 2008 7:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
the penalties that you described at the end of your post could have probably gone either way, and they just happened to go against Green Bay this game.
however, despite the initial confusion, it’s pretty much agreed upon that the first safety was the correct call. While you can make a case that he WAS trying to get the ball to Humphrey (as you did), it was obvious that Rodgers was getting the ball away to avoid the sack.
Look at it like this: after the forced fumble, Rodgers had to scramble to regain control, which he barely did. Once he regained control, he immediately flung the ball forward towards Humphrey/the LOS while in midair. I would argue that, had he allowed himself to hit the ground with the ball, Jared Allen would have made contact with Rodgers before he was able to get rid of the football, thus resulting in a sack in the endzone. The referee probably saw it the same way, and that’s why the call was made.
Was it a great effort to make a play? You bet, and I admire Rodgers for his quick thinking, even if it didn’t work out. Was the call correct? I am 99% sure that it was. Does it suck? Absolutely. But there’s not much room for argument against the call.
Besides, all it would have taken was a little (ok, a lot) of offensive execution to turn this game in our favor. But that didn’t happen, we lost, and now we need to stop feeling sorry for the Minnesota outcome and start to focus on Chicago.
"I'm so clean, cats think I sip Ajax."
by Mitchell_M on Nov 13, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unnatural throwing motion
The whole unnatural throwing motion is supposed to show Rodgers never intended to the pass to be completed, or something. That whole bit appears to be pulled out of their collective a@#es.
I’ve been wondering if the whole issue is determining when a receiver is considered in the vicinity. That seems arbitrary. Could Humphrey had caught the ball? The pass was thrown towards him, but certainly wasn’t catchable. Not that it should matter. I watched Favre throw a pass that hit half way up the goal post, it could have only been caught by some 50 foot tall guy, but nothing was mentioned about it during the game.
by Brandon on Nov 14, 2008 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the NFL “digest” version whatever that means.
I have no idea if he was outside the pocket, but “on the edge of the pocket” doesn’t equate to outside the pocket. To me it sounds like you are saying he was in the pocket. At the worst, it would be a judgement.
If the ball didn’t cross the LOS as you say, being as close as a ball would get when the QB is hit wouldn’t be a valid measurement. The judgement of “realistic chance of completion” seems hard to weigh in favor of Rodgers.
by ol Pete on Nov 14, 2008 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Florio
Per ProFootballTalk.com’s Mike Florio about the mystery “illegal foward pass”
“We think Riveron’s crew insisted that it couldn’t be grounding, that Riveron opted to cite another rule that in reality didn’t apply, and that after the game Riveron and the league re-embraced the grounding concept in the hopes that the whole thing would die quickly and quietly.”
But make sure the Vikings fans don’t hear about this; they apparently think every call has gone against them since 1981.
He also addresses All-Days allowed celebration that nearly meant nothing since Crosby MISSED the damn FG.
Pereira said that the call was frustrating, but what frustrates me is how Chad Clifton got his knees handed to him by the one armed Spine-Crusher
Warning!
that above href takes you to the Daily Norsemen, where they talk about, among other things, how their secondary is as good as Al Harris and Woodson, how their first-game-this-year starting QB TJack is better than A-Rod, and I forgot.. Bernard Berrian is a better WR than Driver or Jennings. If anyone hasn’t seen this, please go take a gander.. what a laugher!
by PackaCracka on Nov 13, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Correction
Pereira said the non-call was frustrating. Can you edit the comments?
by PackaCracka on Nov 13, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Drinking the Kool Aid
A big win can be quite intoxicating.
by Brandon on Nov 14, 2008 1:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Florio?
“We think” he says, but nothing to support it. Maybe he should claim anonymous sources said it.
by ol Pete on Nov 14, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
snap judgments....
These guys move around a 100 miles an hour, plays happen in milliseconds, the crowd is going crazy and these refs have to make snap judgments….and we judge them from the comfort of our homes. Okay maybe in hindsight, if we slow the play down to 1/16 frame per second and take out the measuring stick and see how far Humphrey was or wasn’t from the ball, then we come to a true verdict. But these guys have to make snap judgments…maybe huddle around for a minute, without time to do a whole long disseration on what just happened…
Even though I get mad at refs while watching the game (contradicting all of the above), I realize, given the difficult circumstances they do a fantastic job and things tend to even out at the end…
Plus add that the circumstance and the variables were so very unique to that play…(as you and Mitchell and others have written) that an honest mistake was more likely than not.
by PackFaninFL on Nov 13, 2008 11:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Brandon, a personal question/observation...
You know what I was re-reading this post and your minnesota analysis—both excellent by the way—but it seems you have a very cool and football savvy wife! lol…how did you find her and does she have a sister (kidding)…but in all seriousness, that’s my ideal for a “soulmate”, some who prefers some greenish gold to go along with her diamond. Have her blog on here sometime lol.
by PackFaninFL on Nov 14, 2008 12:15 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
LOL
She’s very cool, but she’s growing into life as a football fan. She wasn’t a football fan when we got married. She prefers the NFL RePLAY (“it’s much better when they cut out all that boring stuff”). Now she’s watching games and has her first fantasy football team this year. It will probably take a couple more seasons until she considers going online for football info. Wives train husbands, but it goes the other way too.
by Brandon on Nov 14, 2008 1:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NFL Replay is awesome!
I have loved that since they first started showing it. It helps me limit the space on my DVR too when they show Packer games. 1.5 hours is a lot better than 3+ hours of broadcast time. I also love when they show some older games on there in the same fashion. Got quite a few games on DVD now from recording them and burning them from there. Anytime I get a little frustrated with this last Viking game I simply put on the 34-0 shutout from last year and I feel much better.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
by verno329 on Nov 14, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not blaming the loss on the refs
“Even though I get mad at refs while watching the game (contradicting all of the above), I realize, given the difficult circumstances they do a fantastic job and things tend to even out at the end…”
Totally agree, I officiate football my self, at a much lower level, and I know first hand how difficult it is to make all the calls in the heat of the moment. 99% of the time I think the NFL officials make the correct call on the field. This was that 1%.
Rodgers is trying his very best to avoid the sack and get the ball to Humphrey.
Riveron was judging this in a very strict manner, not putting very much officiating philosphy behind his call.
I was not by any means trying to blame this loss on Riveron and his crew for this loss, overall they did a good job, and some of the other flags could easily have gone the other way.
The Packers had plenty of oportunity to win this, but the offense could not move the ball in crucial situations, and the run defense gave up to many big plays.
by Jarlsberg on Nov 14, 2008 11:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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