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GB FANS.......????

I can't believe what I am reading.  I am surprised and somewhat appalled by what some of you are saying about Brett & his possible return from retirement.

I live in NC and can honestly say that I never followed football until I met a man from Green Bay.  Since 1988, I have listened to my husband rave about the Packers, the Lombardi trophy, & all the Packer trivia.  During football season, we are the house with the huge blowup Packer in the front yard . We have Brett Farve pictures in the "man room" and a dog named "Lambeau".  Thanks to my in-law's which still live in GB, our 1st born son was given Packer onesies to wear at birth.  I can go on & on but hopefully you get the idea......my husband (& sons) are diehard Packer fans.  Although, I get tired of it sometimes, I have grown to appreciate the spirit of the Packer fans and over the years, I have enjoyed watching Brett Farve. 

Brett Farve is no doubt a LEGEND and deserves more respect for all that he has accomplished.  Some people say "Packer Fan" not "Farve Fan".  However, from what I've seen over the years, the GB Packer history book would probably read very differently if it wasn't for Brett and his last 16 years as QB.  T.T. wants the glory that "Farve" has given the Packers over the years.  He wants the opportunity to rebuild the Packers which is fine but his methods over the years are questionable.  I can understand Brett's wishy washy attitude since T.T. took control.  All the blue collar workers in GB know what politics is like when facing layoffs, etc.  They should understand how Brett must have felt after all that he had accomplished for the Packer organization when his dedication was not only unnoticed but unappreciated .  Brett doesn't need the money now nor did he need it 3 years ago; he didn't have to stay when the fans were begging him to stay; it's my belief he stayed for the fans & the love of the game and kept quite about the Packer organization  & the backstabbing tactics of T.T.  It's no doubt in my mind that Brett gave his heart & soul to GB.  Now I ask......where are his fans now? At this point, I'm truely disappointed in the Packer fans; they aren't what I thought they were.  Ruthless comes to mind.  Teddy boy has something to prove and he's cut throat.....I don't know the man personally but he's a GM and most (not all) people in those type of positions get there by throwing associates to the dogs.  Wake up people & support Brett whether he returns or not.  As for A.R., many QB's wait longer than 3 years.  I would happily sit behind Brett another year or possibly 2.  I just think too much cheese has clogged the brains in GB.  Brett should have been welcomed back with open arms, possibly win a SB and  then quietly retire once & for all.  It could have happened that way but POLITICS and POWER took center stage. Now....who knows?

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I’m hearing what you are saying and at some point, the Packer organization will no doubt move on. However, it can be done with more class than what I’ve seen from T.T. and his actions with BF. I seriously doubt AR will bring home a trophy to GB in the next 2,4, or perhaps 6 years. Actually, I predict we will see one of AR’s backup QB’s (fresh from college football) playing starting QB early in the season while AR recovers from an injury. Therefore, why rush BF to retirement? Why smear a LEGENDARY QB when he could come closer to bringing a trophy to GB than anyone? BF is 38 and I’m not ignorant to the fact that he can’t play forever. That’s why I’m so confused as to why the fans aren’t supporting him in his last years when the Packers really don’t have anything to loose. Now….it will go down in the GB history books how a GM practically spit on their own LEGENDARY QB! That’s something to be proud of.

I disagree with what you are saying about Brett & Timmy throwing a tantrum. If a QB thinks another player could help a team, as a GM….why not at least consider it? I personally think that listening and taking all things into consideration before making a decision makes a good business man. Why lie like TT did to BF? BF offered his own salary to get Moss; he obviously felt strongly that it could help GB win another SB. I’m sure that other GM’s bounce things off their QB’s. Ultimately, the choice is the GM’s not the QB’s. Truth is…..TT was closed to any suggestions coming from BF and if I was a QB, a legendary QB like BF, I think that would piss me off too.

by packersinNC on Jul 18, 2008 12:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

first off,

too many acronyms. I’ve never heard Favre referred to as “BF”, but it has a certain ring to it that I can’t explain.

Thompson is the architect of this team. I’m sure that he DID consider Brett’s requests. However, he has the ability to stick to his guns and not fold under the pressure of a legendary QB.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2008 6:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

acronyms….initials…..whatever! True….Thompson is the architect of the team. He’s the head guy and no one knows that more than Brett. Personally, I don’t think it was the fact that TT didn’t listen to Brett’s request that angered Brett. It was the lying from TT that pissed Brett off. TT doesn’t owe Brett anything. With that being said, why be so deceitful and lie about what you are doing. If nothing else…..I think TT can show some respect to Brett . He’s earned it !!!

Thompson is ready to move on & that’s been obvious to Brett for time. It’s not easy to work in that environment . Brett loves the game; he loves the fans! If GB doesn’t want him….simply let Brett go and play football. Thompson can continue building the future of the Packers.

by packersinNC on Jul 18, 2008 8:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why should the Packers release him and get nothing for him? Have we forgotten Brett coming out during Walker’s holdout and saying that he should honor his contract? Do the rules change simply because he’s Brett Favre? If he wants to play so bad he should apply for reinstatement already. Then, if its true that the Pack have moved on, they can trade him to another team. I personally don’t think Brett knows what he would be getting himself into if he goes somewhere else. He would have to learn a new offense and the media and fans in the new town would surely be more critical of his mistakes than the Wisconsin media has and anything short of a Super Bowl win would be considered a horrible waste of that franchise’s time. Could he handle criticism? Not sure about that.

That said, if he were somehow able to come back as the Packers QB (extremely doubtful at this point) I would now consider anything short of him holding the Lombardi trophy in February to be a colossal failure. I don’t think anything else would be acceptable. Would you agree with that?

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 18, 2008 9:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

TRADE HIM....RIDICULOUS

Trade him…...are you kidding? After experiencing the environment and dishonest tactics of TT over the past 3 years, do you honestly think Brett can have faith that TT will try to place him on a team that would be acceptable to Brett ? TT doesn’t care about Brett.. My bet….TT knows what teams Brett would hate to play for because all of us have teams that for some reason or the other….we just don’t like. I’m sure that Brett is no different. For sure….that’s the team that the backstabbing TT will try to work out a trade with especially if that team has something that TT may be able to justify to the Packer organization and still save face. I know that TT did some things for the Seattle Seahawks but I can look at that man and see nothing more than a snake in the grass.

No…I would not look at Brett as a failure if he did not bring home the Lombardi trophy in February? Why would I ? Brett is one man; it takes an entire team to win a SuperBowl ! A team needs a QB just as much as the QB needs a team. With that being said, I will say that chances of getting a Lombardi trophy in February is greater with Brett than AR. Would you agree with that?

Honestly people, Brett admitted that he retired prematurely. He tried to explain that his wishy washy attitude over the past few years has been due to feeling like he wasn’t wanted anymore & he tried to explain that feeling based on some of the questionable things that had happened over the years. Come on people…..all of us have been in that situation at some time or the other. You just know when you need to watch your back.; it’s a gut feeling that’s unexplainable. That would be a questionable environment for anyone to want to return too and I don’t care who you are. Do I blame Brett for procrastinating in his decision about retirement for the past 3 years . Not now…..not since hearing his uncut interviews. Brett still loves the game; he wants to play. His heart and soul was in GB before TT and it’s still in GB. Whether a Packer fan or a Farve fan, that’s easy to see.

As for Aaron Rodgers, it was no secret that Brett had 3 years remaining on his contract before retirement. He is also familiar with the NFL reinstatement option for retired football players. If Brett had not retired in March, Aaron Rodgers would have been making a decision in 2009 anyway. If it’s true what some are saying, chances are that Brett will play only one more year. If that’s the case, what does Aaron or the Packers have to lose? In 2009, Aaron becomes a free agent and it’s risky. However, players everywhere know the spirit in Green Bay. I just don’t know what Aaron Rodgers has to lose if he sits behind the greatest QB ever for one more year. If Brett brings home the Lombardi trophy, I think that will truely be the end of his legacy and a fresh start for the Packer organization with Aaron Rodgers. All is happy ! If it doesn’t happen this year, I don’t think Brett will put his teammates thru another year ; I think he too will move on. Again, everybody happy.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 12:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I will say that chances of getting a Lombardi trophy in February is greater with Brett than AR. Would you agree with that?

Absolutely I agree with that. No doubt. But will it help us in ‘09, ‘10 and so on? Brett is thinking like a player of only the now, while TT has to think of more than just the right now. He is in charge of making sure the Packers are built for success this year and in the future.

I don’t want him traded at all. But if he asks for reinstatement (which I’ll believe when I see it) and TT stays by what he has said that Rodgers is the starter then what other choice is there? If you say we “owe” it to him to release him then you are saying that Brett Favre is more important than the Green Bay Packers. His needs are more important than the teams needs. Is that what you are saying?

And what makes you think that Brett won’t do this again next year? If the Pack were to win the Super Bowl you might logically think he could ride off into the sunset, but what if he decides to be like Elway and go for a repeat? Even if he says he is retiring, would you believe him? Could you expect Rodgers to?

I must state that I have loved Brett Favre for 16 years. I remember watching him come in against Cincy and lead us back to victory. I remember him throwing wild throws his first couple of years to the point that the Lambeau crowd would give him a standing ovation for throwing the ball out of bounds instead of forcing a pick. I can die a happy man knowing that I got to see the Packers win a Super Bowl in my lifetime. But Brett Favre is not bigger than the Green Bay Packers.

After experiencing the environment and dishonest tactics of TT over the past 3 years, do you honestly think Brett can have faith that TT will try to place him on a team that would be acceptable to Brett ? TT doesn’t care about Brett.. My bet….TT knows what teams Brett would hate to play for because all of us have teams that for some reason or the other….we just don’t like. I’m sure that Brett is no different.

Ok, wouldn’t you assume that the Vikings would be one of those teams that Brett hates? Yet it seems rather apparent that Brett wants a release so he can join his old buddy Bevell in Minnesota, and in the process, stick it to the Packers. If you assume that TT is the kind of person who would put some kind of personal vendetta above the interests of the team, what does that say about the people who hired him and have continued to employ him? And wouldn’t Favre going to the Vikings be considered a way of taking out a personal vendetta? I still haven’t seen you give any credit to TT for rebuilding a team that Sherman trashed while he was busy cowering to Favre. You can say that TT hates Brett all you want, but you can’t see that the moves that he has made allowed us to from 4-12 to 13-3 in two years?

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 12:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

here & now

I don’t think Brett is looking at his return to the Packers as…..the now! He just wants to play football & he wants to play for GB and the fans that he has grown to love for 16 years. The Packers could have possibly had 3 more years with Brett if he had not retired. A retirement that I do believe was somewhat due to the politics of the Packer organization & their desire to move on without him. It’s just my opinion that one more year with Brett is not such a bad thing for the Packers. I just don’t think one more year with Brett is going to change TT’ s masterplan for the future of the Packers. If it does, that’s not saying much for TT ’s future plan for success.

No, I will not say that Brett’s needs are more important than the Green Bay Packers. However, the Packers ARE SAYING they don’t need Brett . So…... why stifle him & force him to stay in retirement, play backup QB, or be traded to some crappy team that would make Brett miserable. Is that how the Packers show appreciation for all that Brett has accomplished for the franchise over the years? Is that how the Packers protect his LEGACY??? If so, no thank you!

Face it….when you mention the Packers, your next thought is automatically Brett Farve. When you mention Brett Farve, you automatically think GB Packers. Just as Tom Brady is to the Patriots and Peyton Manning is to the Colts and so on. At some point, these QB’s will retire but they will not be forgotten for the things they have accomplished. If Brett played for some other team, he will always be remembered mostly for the things that he did in Green Bay and his Legacy will always be in GB. So….. why not release him if you don’t want him? As for the team and their needs, I haven’t heard any comments from any of them to know how they feel about all of this.

If Brett won a SuperBowl next year, it’s no doubt in my mind that he would ride off into the sunset if the Packer organization desired to move on with AR. With that being said, I also think he would stay & complete his contract if he was asked to do so. Brett is realistic; he knows he can’t play forever. And no, Brett Farve is not bigger than the Green Bay Packers; however, Brett Farve has definitely shined a light on the Packers over the past few years. Whether it’s this year or 3 years from now, the Packers will one day move on from Brett and one day the Packers will win another SuperBowl.

On the contrary, Brett doesn’t hate the Vikings. It makes a good game….and Brett likes a good game. I think Brett knows that he could have fun on a team like the Vikings. I’m not saying that he rather play for the Vikings than the Packers. His heart is in GB but GB doesn’t want him. Therefore, how would a “used up legendary QB like Brett ” be a threat to the Packers or any other NFL team? Why would you say that Brett would stick it to the Packers? If he’s still that good…... why move on? Why trade him? Why bench him? Why force him to retire? Gee…..it’s talking out of both sides of the mouth. Sounds like the Packers want their cake & eat it too. The anti Brett fans should have more faith in their do no wrong GM (Thompson) and his decision to move on with Rodgers. If the Packers released Brett and Brett was allowed to play for the Vikings, just think of what this would mean for Rodgers if the Packers won that game. The Packers would no longer be under the Farve cloud. Afterall, isn’t that what TT is trying to accomplish….life without Brett! It doesn’t sound like TT or some of the Packer fans are up to the challenge?!

I’m not saying that TT hasn’t done good things for the Packers just as he did for Seattle. I am saying…..I don’t trust the guy!

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 4:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

From an organizational standpoint,

at least part of this is all about insurance. Because, quite simply, Brett Favre scares the hell out of them.

We know how good Favre is. So do the Green Bay Packers. They’re looking out for their interests in the short term by making sure that Favre doesn’t beat them.

Tell me, who would you like to face on opening night: Tavaris Jackson or Brett Favre?

Not to mention Favre has practiced against this defense for years. He knows where they’re strong, but more importantly, he knows where they’re weak.

So, strictly from a football standpoint, keeping him retired or (no matter how unsavory) burying him on the bench is the best option.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 19, 2008 5:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If I was AR, I rather face Brett Farve on opening night . Why not? I would want to prove to everyone what I was made of .

The Packers knows Brett’s strengths and weakness also. I think it would be a great game.

Like Brett said, the best way for AR to get from under the Farve cloud is to get out there and play the game. That is the only way AR is going to shut the people up.  Play the game & play it well..

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 6:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

sure, it might be a good game. but why take the chance? Aaron Rodgers doesn’t need to beat Favre in a head-to-head to prove his worth.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 19, 2008 7:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

exactly

if you’re in a business (which the NFL is) then your job is put yourself in the best position to succeed, not to put on a great game. And it doesn’t matter if Aaron Rodgers would want the chance to play against Brett in the opener. He isn’t the GM either. Now we have two QB’s who want to be the GM? ;^)

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 7:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Rodgers will need to do something to prove his worth. I think Thompson will even agree with that.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 7:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

agreed

but beating Brett Favre in a head -to-head matchup is not one of those things. Kyle Orton, JP Losman, Brian Griese (in tow different uniforms), Mike McMahon, Kyle Boller, and Jim Miller are just some the QB’s that have beaten Brett head-to-head. I think the only thing we can say that these guys have proven is that they aren’t worth anything. I mean, Mike McMahon for goodness sake! Ugh, why did I have to bring up THAT memory (slaps head)

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 7:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thats supposed to be two different uniforms for Brian Griese (slaps head again)

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 7:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If Brett doesn’t hate the Vikings then where the hell has he been for the past 16 years? How do you not hate your fiercest rival??? And what are you basing this on? He claims that he has never thought about playing for another team. Now he knows he could have fun on a team like the Vikings?

Last year he demanded a trade (which he quickly rescinded) after they didn’t get Moss and this year his agent was rooting around to see if any other team around the league had any interest in Favre. And this happened after he changed his mind about coming out of retirement at the end of March. Who is talking out of both sides of their mouth in this situation?

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 7:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

mouth

Where are you getting your info from? Were you with Brett’s agent when he was rooting around the league ? Brett didn’t say that he could have fun playing for the Vikings…..that’s my opinion! Don’t make my words….Brett’s words….that’s how rumors get started.

Of course, Brett wanted to win when playing the Vikings over the past 16 years. It was a rival team. Honestly, I don’t think Brett ever planned on playing for another team. But…..I don’t think he ever thought he would be treated as he has by the GB franchise either.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 7:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know that Brett thinking he could have fun with the Vikings is your opinion. But it is a fact that there were reports that Brett’s agent was rooting around for interest around the league. Right here That was April 5th. Right after he had clearly thought about unretiring enough to convince TT and MM to charter a plane to come pick him and make a press conference announcing his comeback. Here’s Peter King at the same time Thats where my info is coming from

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 8:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Brett is a QB not a GM

How would Moss have made them better last year? He wouldn’t have. There is nothing wrong with the star QB giving input on personnel decisions to the GM. But if the GM decides that it is not the right move, and that turns out to be the right decision, how can Favre use that as one of the reasons that he can’t trust his GM? This whole situation could have been handled better by both sides and this pains me to no end as a loyal Brett Favre fan for years but when I see him behaving poorly I’m not just gonna turn a blind eye simply because he’s Brett Favre.

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 18, 2008 6:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not a GM

I’m not suggeting that Moss would have made the difference. We will never know. Brett lost trust in TT because he lied to him over and over again when he could have simply been honest . Yes…Brett may disagree with TT but I think he’s a big enough man to go on with the game regardless of the decisions made by TT. It was the lies that have been eating at Brett over the years & creating an environment that made Brett feel he was no longer wanted & being guided into retirement in a manner that no one outside of the organization could see (especially, the fans). Brett is finally talking; yet, the fans seem to be holding it against him. Wow!

by packersinNC on Jul 18, 2008 8:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's not that he's finally talking

it’s that he’s talking out of both sides of his mouth.

I, like many of you, thought that the Favre Era ended in March with that press conference. At that point in time, he was done. But it was his decision.

Now he wants to come back. Again, that’s his decision. But it’s the reasoning behind all his rationalizations (all of which point to his wish to be released) that the fans hold against him.

First, he wasn’t pressured to retire. Now, he was pressured to retire. It’s this sort of wishy-washieness that Green Bay fans are tired of after the past few years. The guessing games got old, and that’s why the “Bring Brett Back” movement hasn’t picked up a lot of steam.

Also, can someone tell me what the deal is with ‘enzos mom’? Preferably enzos mom can answer, and hopefully with more than a few lines of vague statements and bold misconceptions, some of which are in CAPS.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

TT talks out of both sides

Brett talks out of both sides ? What about TT ?

Yes, Brett did state in March that MM or TT had nothing to do with his choice to retire. Remind you, the rumor was out there otherwise Brett would not have felt it was necessary to address it. Correct? What was Brett suppose to say when he cares so deeply for the Packer organization? He wasn’t going to come out & say anything that would shadow the franchise; he was in a bad position. He knew that he had years remaining on his contract and may possibly want to play again. I’m sure that kept running thru his mind during that press conference. He wanted to leave the door open which would have been nailed shut if he had spoke the truth & caused a media frenzy. The man was emotionally drained….not physically! He still wanted to play but the conditions were obviously taking a toll on him. After last year, no fan can say that Brett Farve isn’t physically capable of still playing football. In reality, he is no different than the fans. He simply grew tired of the BS. If you ask me….some of the fans are being 2 faced in the sense that they can grow tired of Brett for being indecisive about his retirement over the years yet Brett is not allowed to grow tired of TT’s dishonest tactics and the overall protect your back environment he was forced to play football in over the past few years.

I, for one, thought it was crazy for Brett to retire after last season. The Packers were so close to a SuperBowl. I didn’t quite understand his decision until now. As for the release, I don’t blame Brett. Perhaps if TT had treated him with the respect that he had definitely EARNED, this entire issue could have been resolved differently. What kills me is the fact that Brett wanted to play for GB and he was told they had moved on with AR? Then, TT said that he could come back as a backup QB? Why would he?

If so many of you Packer fans are so convinced that Brett Farve is so “used up” and not capable of playing another amazing year….. If you are so tired of his “legitimate” reasons for questioning whether he wanted to retire over the past few years and …....if you honestly feel that Brett is all about Brett and not the Packers. Then, my question is why do you and many of the other Packer fans even care if he asked for a release. After all, you fans are ready to move on so let the man play football wherever it may be…..even if it was for the Vikings. What a great game that would be if AR shows up? True !!!

All I’m saying to some of the fans…..don’t wait till the middle of regular season when the Packers are doing poorly twith AR to start the “Bring Brett Back” movement. Just as you ask Brett to do…..stay true with your decision….no second thoughts!

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Warning: long response. Make sure you pack an overnight bag.

I have no problem sticking to my decision to support the team over Favre. If Favre stays retired or goes elsewhere and A-Rodg struggles next season, I will not join the chorus of cheeseheads wailing to the heavens for the return of Brett Favre, Lord of Wisconsin.

However, I want to know what you mean when you mention the “conditions” that amounted to Brett’s emotional exhaustion. If it’s the fact that the team did not acquire the players he wanted, i.e. Randy Moss, then I refer to the earlier post about Thompson being the GM and therefore rightfully making the judgements on what makes the team better in BOTH the present and the future.

Brett was given multiple chances to say what he wanted to say, and in the end the team went a different direction. The fact that Brett was (and still is, even in quasi-retirement) that important to not just be allowed, but encouraged by fans and media to speak on the matter is almost unheard of. So it’s not like he didn’t have enough influence over the team.

If the conditions then refer to Thompson’s creation of an environment of “untruth”, I respond with this: the guy is a GM in the NFL. Lying is part of the job description, but there’s a fine line between this and the lying that Brett accuses the team of.

Rumors abound from everywhere, both within the league and outside it, and they’re just one of the many tools that GMs use to manipulate their teams and their counterparts. One of the abilities required of GMs nowadays is the ability to mask your true intentions, and Thompson is very skilled at that. If Favre misinterpreted that and consequently felt almost betrayed by the team, then it’s a mistake on his part. An honest mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

If Favre actually was looking over his shoulder because he felt the organization was trying to push him out, then he was being oversensitive. In 2005, the heir to Brett Favre was selected 24th overall in the NFL Draft. It was widely regarded as a move for the future after Brett Favre. Rodgers was the next quarterback of the team.

Maybe he felt that Aaron Rodgers was a threat to his spot on the team, and that was why he didn’t mentor Rodgers as much as we wanted him to. You could argue that currently Rodgers IS a threat to Favre’s spot on the team, but that’s a shaky argument at best considering the fact that Favre got on TV and retired in March.

And besides, would Brett Favre really be afraid of Aaron Rodgers? Unless there was some sort of deal made that nobody has mentioned yet (a highly unlikely scenario, given how ugly this situation has gotten, because somebody would have used it as ammo by now), the setup was this: Brett Favre is the starter, Rodgers is the backup, and this changes ONLY if Brett gets hurt or when he retires. Since Favre has a titanium alloy skeleton, the second outcome is the only valid one.

The point is, Favre was guaranteed to start for as long as he played. How many players, past and present, have that kind of comfort? But, once he retired, that guarantee was void. Why fault the team for doing what it had agreed to when Aaron came on board?

Finally, I also thought it was crazy of him to retire, especially after the year he had. The man was fantastic. But one thing sticks out in my mind about his retirement, and I actually can make a personal analogy that might help explain my position.

I am a recently retired figure skater. I wasn’t a hack , either. I’ve won national titles four times in my nine-year career. I was aiming for the Olympics in 2012. I won’t bore you with the rest of the details, but all in all, I had a successful career. However, last January, I reached a point where all the time and effort I was putting in didn’t seem worth it. To paraphrase, “I can still play, but I’m not sure I want to.”

Favre manifests the notion that players get paid for practice during the week and they play the games for free. He played the game that way his entire career; nobody worked harder than him Monday through Saturday, and nobody had more fun on Sundays. But it inevitably comes to a point where Monday through Saturday gets to be too much, and Sunday isn’t worth it anymore.

I know what it feels like to retire when you’ve still got it. It’s a bittersweet mixture of relief and regret. You’re happy that you don’t have to put up with practice anymore, but you know that the next time a season rolls around, you want to be out there and you want to win it.

The point is, once you reach that point where you want to play but you don’t want to practice, there’s no coming back. I could be the greatest skater in the world, but if I didn’t practice, I wouldn’t be at the same level. Same goes for Favre. I’m not saying that he wouldn’t put the work in, but it wouldn’t be the same. It wouldn’t be Brett Favre.

And that’s why I want him to stay retired.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 19, 2008 2:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

emotional fatigue

No…..I don’t feel that it was the fact that Thompson didn’t interview or hire those people that Brett asked Thompson to consider for certain positions nor the fact that Thompson didn’t keep certain players. I think it was just being in an environment where you are made to feel that you are no longer appreciated or needed. Brett was a short timer & I think he was being treated like one. Mentally, it can really wear you down (especially when you are Brett Farve & you’re suddenly being treated as you don’t matter). I really think that is what happened to Brett & why he was so indecisive over the past few years which eventually caused him to prematurely retire in March. He had given so much of himself to that franchise. Physically, I think Brett could play but emotionally he didn’t know if he wanted too. I think he was tired of his needs “not mattering” & he knew nothing was going to change. It was obvious that TT was focused on building a future team without him. I think Brett just gave them what they wanted instead of doing what he wanted which was…..play football. True, TT’s job as a GM is to build a successful team and no one, even Brett, blames him for doing so. Brett knows he can’t play forever. At the press conference, Brett said that he had nothing else to give and I think that emotionally…..he honestly felt that way. Some packer fans have said that it’s the “attention” that he craves and he’s not loyal to the Packers if plays for another team. Loyal…..I question if some knows the meaning of the word. Brett has earned every ounce of the attention he has gotten over the years (negative & positive). He is a Legend and some may have forgotten but I never will. It has nothing to do with thinking Farve is bigger than Green Bay or GB is bigger than Brett Farve. It’s about RESPECTING a man that has done more for football than any player. Whether GB moves on or not, Brett’s LEGACY will live on.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 5:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It seems to me that your position is that the Packers should grant his request out of respect for what he’s done. I think that no amount of respect is able to overshadow the probability of letting a HOF quarterback go to a division rival. Neither of us will be able to convince the other, I think.

Brett’s legacy is fine. He doesn’t need the team to worry about it. Hell, he doesn’t even need to worry about it. As far as legends go, his is set. If he wants to add to it, that’s his deal, but the man will go down as the greatest to play the game.

I watched both Super Bowl XXXI and the NFC North “Title Game” from 2004 (the Christmas Eve game) on NFL Network today. No matter the outcome, thousands of people will watch footage of games like these and think back to this time with a smile on their faces.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 19, 2008 7:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

respect

My position is…..take Brett back as starting QB or let him go.

Yes…his legacy is fine whatever happens. I watched bits & pieces of those games also and yes, I had a smile on my face.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 8:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree but

let him go via trade and not release

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 8:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

trade

a trade that Brett and the Packers can live with is acceptable.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 8:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hooray

for quasi-agreement!

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 19, 2008 8:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

All I’m saying to some of the fans…..don’t wait till the middle of regular season when the Packers are doing poorly twith AR to start the "Bring Brett Back" movement. Just as you ask Brett to do…..stay true with your decision….no second thoughts!

I will do so. I hope that you can do the same

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 2:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well said

Bottom line is… Lets go Pack, whoever is at QB

by juggernaut400 on Jul 18, 2008 4:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

TT

No, I’m not suggesting that going to the NFC Championship game last year was solely the work of Farve. It takes a team to win a game…..not a single player. With that being said, a team needs a good QB.

You are obviously a TT supporter so therefore, good luck in 2008 with TT’s decision to move on.

by packersinNC on Jul 18, 2008 12:19 AM CDT   0 recs

Check out this article too

Please read this and see if you can get where he’s coming from

He goes a bit far IMO but the core of the piece asks a good question

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 12:51 PM CDT   0 recs

Brett has always received special treatment

I remember watching him play in 2005 and thinking that if Aaron Rodgers had been making the plays that he was making I would be calling for his head and packing his bags. The Cincinnati game was the one that really got me thinking of that. I hadn’t been critical of Brett all season and believed that he was just trying to do everything himself because he didn’t have enough support. But watching Brett run totally out of control and let the ball slip out of his hands and blowing our chance to tie the game was the moment that made me think that if it was anyone besides Brett Favre making these plays I would be screaming bloody murder. My point is not that Brett should have retired after that season. It is that Brett has been treated with kid gloves for a long time now and he is now upset that he isn’t being treated with the respect that he has earned. I guess he forgot all the past years.

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 2:25 PM CDT   0 recs

special treatment

No, I doubt Brett has forgotten those past years. I’m sure that he is well aware of all of his mistakes. With that being said, do you have any idea as to why he has earned the title “LEGEND”. Would it have anything at all to do with the numerous records that he has broken over the past 16 years? He’s not perfect and his mistakes shouldn’t overshadow his accomplishments.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 6:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you’ll get no argument from me whatsoever that Brett has earned the title of “LEGEND” and I agree completely that his accomplishments far overshadow his mistakes, its not even close. But during 2005 Brett was not held over the coals for his mistakes like a younger player would have been. Mistakes are just that, mistakes, but the mistakes that Brett was making in that year were ones that would not have been tolerable by even a rookie and the most blame that he took was that he was trying to carry the team on his back.

Let me be clear about this, if Brett had stuck with his decision at the end of March to unretire, instead of changing his mind again, I would have been turning cartwheels at the thought of having him back under center as the QB of the Packers. I, like you, thought it was crazy that he was retiring in the beginning of March. Where we differ is the reasoning why he retired. You think (correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t mean to misquote you) that Brett retired because he was tired of all of TT’s shady, underhanded tricks. I think that if he retired for the reasons that he mentioned at his press conference, (i.e. he couldn’t make the mental commitment that he made during the past season, anything short of a Super Bowl win (not appearance but win) would be more devastating than not playing, and that he had given everything of himself to football and had nothing left to give) then he retired for the right reasons and on his terms. At that point I could only take him at his word because it made perfect sense. I would have wanted to retire if I felt the way that he described. Putting yourself in a situation where anything short of winning the Super Bowl is a failure is not a position to be comfortable in. And he, and he alone, said that. Not once did anyone else, in the media, Packer organization, or even the fans of the NFL say that anything short of winning the Super Bowl would be considered a failure for Brett Favre or the Packers. I’ve always thought that Brett would never get more than 60-40 one way or another on the retirement issue and am not surprised in the slightest that he had second thoughts. His chance for second thoughts came at the end of March when the Packers would have gladly welcomed him back. He declined. No one has asked him about that. Greta Van Sustern certainly wasn’t gonna ask that because it would have been difficult for Brett to answer. If Brett retired in early March because he couldn’t handle TT’s alleged untrustable behavior, what changed during the month of March to make him think he could handle it then? And what made him change it back? The fact that TT wanted to fly down and bring Brett back on a chartered plane to make his announcement?

I absolutely think that Brett Favre can still physically play the game. I have questions about someone who has publicly stated that they can’t give the mental commitment to the game that is required (I realize he said that in March and that July is a different story) and that has previously stated that he didn’t know if he wanted the ball in his hands late in the game in a critical situation. And to say that Brett should be given his release simply because he wants it is ridiculous to me. He is under contract and if he is going to play elsewhere the Packers at the very least need to get compensation for that. Brett never had a problem weighing in publicly on other players contract negotiations and saying that they should honor their contract and not try to weasel their way out of town (McKenzie, Walker, Sharpe, etc) but now he thinks that his contract means nothing. Brett is long tenured veteran in the NFL and has veto power over where he could be traded, meaning that TT can’t use his evil powers to send him somewhere he doesn’t want to go. But we know that he has value so we would be foolish to just give him away for nothing by releasing him.

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 7:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

GREAT point

thank you for figuring out how to say what I’ve wanted to say but couldn’t quite key in on.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 19, 2008 7:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

my pleasure

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 7:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll be back!!

Before I respond, I’m going to watch a few clips of Brett’s retirement press conference and his most recent interviews…..I’ll be back.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 8:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the best part is

at the end of the day, none of us has any say over what happens. none at ALL. just saying.

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Jul 19, 2008 8:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

we don't?!?!

since when? lol

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 8:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

be sure to watch in the Great Van Sustern interview where he mentions the team and not himself

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 8:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Greta

Thanks, I’m going to watch the uncut version as well as grab a bite to eat.

by packersinNC on Jul 19, 2008 8:23 PM CDT   0 recs

“I know there have been some things in the press recently, about why I’m leaving, whether or not the Packer’s did enough, whether or not Ted & Mike tried to convince me to stay, none of those things have any thing to do with me retiring, and thats from the heart. I’ve given everything I can possibly give to this organization, the game of football, and I don’t think I have anything left to give, and thats it. I know I can play, but I don’t think I want to, and thats really what it comes down to”

Its tough to try and transcribe him cause of his long run-on sentences (one of the things I miss) but that should be at least the beginning part of the presser

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 8:37 PM CDT   0 recs

Have you ever been in a situation where it’s to your advantage to conceal the truth? I have. It’s politics!

I once worked for a man that wasn’t qualified for his position. Politics got him the job. The accountant in our firm would come down on me for not having certain accounts completed. However, the accounts would be on my manager’s desk waiting for him to review so that I could close them out. He was a very unorganized man. I tried to help him because he was also a longtime friend. Then, I learned that he was telling upper management that I was the hold up which was so far from the truth. For my records, I started keeping a log that reflected the dates that these accounts were submitted to management for review & when I would receive them back from him. The next time upper management came down on me, I had my records. Needless to say, the tension was very thick in that office & my manager made things very hard for me. I enjoyed my job and was great at it but emotionally, I didn’t want to deal with it anymore. I decided to give my notice. During my last weeks, the owner of our company flew in to meet with the GM. The GM asked that I stay & continue working until the owner departed. The owner had no idea as to what was going on inside of the organization. I stayed as requested and said nothing. I kept a smile on my face as though my choice to leave was strictly personal. It was a very humiliating time considering how dedicated I was to that company. However, I knew that it was in my best interest to keep my mouth shut & move on because one day, I might want to return or I may need a recommendation for another job. I didn’t want to cut my own throat.

I heard the retirement press conference and all that I’m saying is something led him to that retirement decision after coming off of a season like the one that he just completed. It was no secret that Brett wanted another SuperBowl before retirement but something truely outweighed that desire. What it was…we may never know. As he said, I know I can play, but I don’t think I want to.

by packersinNC on Jul 20, 2008 11:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree completely with what you said and your example is very fitting to this situation. However, when you said,

Have you ever been in a situation where it’s to your advantage to conceal the truth?

I wonder why that applies only to Brett and not to TT? In the case of the Moss situation, what is there to gain for either Brett or the Packers for TT to come out and say that Brett lobbied hard to get Moss but that we were unable or unwilling to give Moss what he needed to come to GB? Why is perfectly understandable for Brett but if TT does something similar (in a position where every other GM around the league has to do the same thing) he is being a deceitful liar?

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 20, 2008 12:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

TT didn’t have to be deceitful…...he was the GM. So, why did he lie to Brett? It’s not OK for anyone to lie but unfortunately…that’s life!

by packersinNC on Jul 20, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

gotcha

its ok for Brett to conceal the truth but not ok for TT. makes perfect sense

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 20, 2008 1:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

no gotcha

Concealing the truth for the benefit of the organization about some things may be necessary from time to time. As far as that goes, I think Brett & TT are still concealing the real problem and what truely led us into this mess. We only know what has been said. I, for one, thinks it’s a little more to this story. When I post about lying, I’m just speaking about the things that Brett mentioned in his interview. TT had no reason to lie about his intentions regarding Moss, etc….he was the GM. I wonder if the GM of the Patriots would lie to Brady for simply making a request.

by packersinNC on Jul 21, 2008 7:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He also speaks of the in-season stress being more of the reason for retiring than the off-season preparation. Monday thru Saturday being what he finds difficult. I wonder how that has changed, not being critical of him but seriously wondering if he now feels he can handle that and what made the change

Can't pitch Gagne in rain. He’s like the B-2 bomber of baseball.--TheJay

by verno329 on Jul 19, 2008 8:55 PM CDT   0 recs