Favre and the Legacy

Hate is a strong word

Do you really mean that sicklebeat? Your post is a great example of what I just cannot understand about many Green Bay fans’ feelings for Favre.

There have been plenty of legendary players leaving my favorite local teams. For the sake of a good comparison I’ll stick to one of my sports heroes who left here near the end of his career. Alan Page was a dominate defensive tackle through the Vikings glory years. He was a key member of the Purple People Eaters defense. In 1972, Page became the first defensive player selected the NFL’s Most Valuable Player, and he was the NFC Defensive Player of the Year four other times. The nine-time Pro Bowl performer was a major contributor to Viking squads that won 10 NFL/NFC Central Division championships.

In 1978 Page had a disagreement with Bud Grant over his playing weight. Page played most of his career between 250 – 275 lbs, but in 1978 he showed up at 225. Bud felt that hurt his performance as a DT and released him. Page played his last 4 seasons in Chicago with the Bears. At no time during his years with the Bears or since did I hate him. He was, and will always be a Vikings sports hero in my mind.

Granted, Favre’s inability to make a retirement decision was frustrating. But at the end of the day the Packers offered him $20 million to retire and stay retired. Brett didn’t want to retire. It was a personal decision, that’s it.

It now is clear that the Packer’s offer wasn’t competitive. It’s important to remember this. Favre made $12 million playing for the Jets last year. He’ll make $12 million playing with the Vikings this year, and another $13 million if he plays next year. It’s also important to remember that Favre wanted to stay with the Packers, but Ted Thompson traded Favre to the Jets. Finally the poison pill that Thompson put into the Jets deal was a personal insult to Favre in as much as it was TT’s attempt at controlling Brett even after he left the Packers.

I don’t know about you, but I blanche at anyone trying to restrict the way I make my living. And the comparison of the Packers $20 million offer to the potential of earning $37 million is a ridiculously easy one to make. Even if Favre had signed somewhere else this year I would have understood his motivation.

You remind everyone that this is a game. On that we agree. So how does hate fit with that? I feel sorry for you and other Packer fans who can’t just sit back and thank Brett for what he meant to the Packers legacy.

by Belarus on Oct 10, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs

the game is over

why are you still here?

by blackoutsox on Oct 10, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny blackout

Seems I saw many of you over on our turf in the weeks leading up to this game. All the time I kept hearing we hadn’t played anyone and how Favre is done. Now, after the fact and Favre proving you all wrong, everyone has disappeared and doesn’t want to talk about it. Why is that?

Look I enjoy nice debates and never once rubbed anything about Monday night into anyone hear at APC. I enjoy most of the sports conversation with people like packallday because he is also the first to stand up and admit when he might be wrong.

Now, all that being said, why the onoxious “why are you still here” comment? Truthfully, it wasn’t called for and sicklebeat handled himself quite well in response.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 11, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah Sorry

Im just starting to get irked that Vikings fans keep coming over to tell what is wrong with our defense and fan loyalty a full week after the game.

Not you though. In fact, you’re one of my favorite on here after the authors and some of the regulars. You’re very willing to look at both sides and Im starting to see now how Thompson may have cheated Farve and Farve was the only one to admit the wrongdoings.

Betraying the fans is still wrong though.

by blackoutsox on Oct 11, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No worries...

I agree both sides are wrong. I just think if I were Favre, and I agree to a trade so I can still play (and start) and I go to bed thinking I am a TB Buc the following year, then I wake up and find I am headed to the Jets? With a poison pill contract besides? Wouldn’t that piss you off and want to send a message to TT for that?

I don’t think it has anything to do with the GB fans. There is no doubt in my mind that he loves the fans. I just think he wants the fans to realize “both sides handled it poorly” as he has said.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well said

I have gone on record a number of times stating basically the same thing. I did so not to stir up any arguments, but more to point out TT’s part in all of this.

As you pointed out, Brett wanted to stay and it was all the games by TT (TB trade cancelled then to Jets, poison pill in Jets trade terms, $20M to stay retired) that started all of the hard feelings.

I clearly understand the hard feelings for Brett being on the Vikings. I just highly question the fact that everyone can “toss away” what he has done for them and not even acknowledge he did ultimately want to stay, or acknowledge how the war was started by TT sending him to the Jets with a poison pill clause..

I also acknowledge that the Packers had to move on at some point and that Aaron Rodgers is a quality QB that probably does fit better there now that Favre. The trade could have been handled peacefully but for some reason wasn’t.

More than anything, as I stand back and look at all the facts, I can admire a man who stands up and admits his own mistakes. To that point, I clearly recall watchin Favre on TV state “how both sides handled this poorly”. Conversely, I do not recall TT ever being man enough to do the same.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 11, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

why did TT have to "be a man" and admit wrong doing?

I am not a 100% believer in TT, but he did what he had to do. Favre RETIRED! He sat at a press conference with tears in his eyes and said he was done! From that moment on the team was Rodgers. If Favre didnt retire, I don’t think any of this happens but he did. TT and MM gave the team to Rodgers from that point and it was smart to not look back again. Look at the Vikings with Sage and Jackson what are they feeling how will can they be expected to play for the vikings once Favre actually retires again.. Does winning cure everything? If you guys were losing would it still be cheers and Brett was the best pickup in the offseason?

by bizzle4 on Oct 11, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually he doesn't have to

I just said I admire a man who stands up and admits mistakes. I personally believe TT was more at fault because he agreed to trade him to TB and then in the middle of the night changed it, and added a poison pill clause to the deal. That started the war, not the unretiring. If it had been left as TB I can see no axe to grind.

So are you telling me this wouldn’t piss you off if you were a player? You agree to a trade to a mediocre team (TB) only because you still want to play, and then the man changes it and adds “the poison pill clause” ?

And as for my feelings about him being a Viking, at first I was actually against it more than for it. Then once I saw him run 40 yards down field to throw a block for Berrian, I finally realized he was in this for the right reasons. I changed my mind and I like the deal…. Either way, win or lose, I think it is good addition for our team. I think the emotion and leadership he brings is infectious and it helps a team that always seemed to play down to the level of their opponent and now no longer does. We have a tough stretch coming up here (Balt, Pitt then GB) and I see a falling back to earth about to happen. Even so, I still fell it was a good deal for us.

As for the “trade”…. I agree you had to trade Favre and I agree you had to go with the QB of the future who is a very, very good QB. You made thr right move. It just could have been handled much better by both sides.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't agree that the ill will towards Thompson was started with the Tampa Bay move.

It’s been there almost since the day he arrived. It started more than likely when he got rid of Wahle and Rivera which Favre didn’t like, but it had to be done. It continued with the firing of Sherman and hiring McCarthy over Mariucci, who Favre lobbied for. Then it continued over the years as Thompson refused to let Favre co general manage the team. Let’s not all forget that Favre asked for a trade back in 07 then of course quickly rescinded it after not wanting to look like the bad guy.

As for the Jets trade, this happens all the time in the league. Maybe in all of your minds, Favre is above being traded somewhere he doesn’t want to go after he fake retires, but it happens all over in the league most recently with Seymour going to the Raiders. Have any of you considered how pissed Ted may have been when Brett retires after the 07 season, they give him a few months and check up to see if his decision was final, it is, you move forward. Then June comes along and hey, look everyone Brett has the itch. And he tries to strong arm his way into a release because that’s what this whole thing was about in the first place. Before they even started talking trades, Favre wanted to be released, do you think he was going to sign with Tampa Bay or Minnesota?

Now I’m not saying either side handled this well, but I find it amusing how everyone here acts as though poor Brett the good ol’ boy just wanted to play himself a little football until big mean Ted came and shipped him off to New York.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 12, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There was definitely ill will between them that is true

And yes, trades happen all the time. However, just not with a legend like you all call him in Packerland, and certainly not with the “screwing” in the middle of the night.

If he truly was a Packer legend then why not handle this in a much more politically correct fashion? TT could have easily done that and Favre would have been down in TB with Gruden. But, that didn’t happen, and Gruden too admits he never got a call to improve the offer. What does that tell you? The screwing and the move was deliberate. And why does Brett owe anyone anything after that? You or I would be just as pissed!

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gruden

Your not seriously thinking Grudens word on this debacle is THE word do you?!!! Gruden is THE biggest Favre apologist there is!!! The truth is the Packers were negotiating w/ BOTH the NYJ and TB. THey made a decision when they got what they thought was needed. Remember #4 was UNDER CONTRACT w/ ONLY GB, not the NFL… Packers had the right to trade him or not for whatever they wanted!!!

Charlie Kelly was right… THE ONLY place #4 wanted to go all along was to Minn… He spent a full year in NY, just hoping to get there… WHY??? Cuz he knew Bevell and CHilldress were hisk biotch… Face it #4 is running both the team and the organization right now. Just like he did when Sherman was here… BTW thats when Bevell was here and kisssing #4’s AZZ.

Favre did everything to get where he is… From as far back as before 07, cuz he knew Thompson wouldn’t let him Co GM, the Pack. I have no respect for the man as a person anymore. He isn’t a good ol country boy he portrays… He is a manipulator.

I appreciate what he did in GB, but remember he didn’t win anything until he also had the #1 D in the NFL to cover up his mistakes.

He is doing well now, but don’t be dellusional to think that he will get you to the SB, much less win it!!! Late in the season and in the playoffs he will crash HARD!!! He has been doing it for 5 years and at 40 it is only going to start coming sooner.

Only chance you have is to play in the Humpty Dome from Dec thru Feb. But that didn’t help in GB, so don’t count on it!

by Strohman on Oct 12, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes I do

Gruden ahs said so publicly and TT continues to keep his mouth shut like the little weasel he is…

By the way, why don’t you tell us how you really feel? ;-)

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course you do

Gruden ahs said so publicly and TT continues to keep his mouth shut like the little weasel he is…

This statement reveals you’re just another biased TT-hater/Favre-lover and I don’t understand why anyone takes anything you say seriously. Sure, it’s commendable that you aren’t being a complete jerk, but that doesn’t change the fact that your evidence is fatally flawed.

For instance, you keep banging on about mean ‘ol Ted pulling off a midnight switcheroo on poor ’ol Brett, when the fact is that it was widely reported for the week after the two parties decided to work out a trade of Brett that the two teams vying for Favre’s services and therefore bidding against each other were the NY Jets and the TB Bucs.

Read (from August 6th, 2008, two days prior to the trade):

According to Brett Favre’s agent, Favre is willing to play for either the New York Jets or the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and he hopes a trade is completed by Thursday at the latest.

“Brett feels he needs to get into training camp,” Bus Cook told Sporting News in a telephone interview Wednesday morning. "He’s ready to get started.

[…]

The door to the Packers has closed on Favre, and they remained unwilling to trade him to the Vikings, Favre’s next preference. As of Wednesday morning, Cook saw the Buccaneers and the Jets as the only two realistic teams for Favre.

“I haven’t heard of anywhere else,” said Cook. “Sure, he’d consider somewhere else, but it would have to be the right place. I don’t know for sure, but I think the Packers have called just about everybody. Tampa and the Jets are the two teams out front.”

I don’t understand why you think that Ted Thompson had to personally call Brett when the Jets came through with the best offer for Brett’s services. This is a business and Brett could just as well as anybody read the ceaseless ESPN chyron dedicated solely to the drama he created in GB, where it repeatedly reported that the Jets and the Bucs were the most interested teams in trading for his services. Why was it such a painful surprise that Brett would end up in NY? I can understand why it was painful for Jon Gruden, but that’s an issue for him to take up with his former GM rather than the Packers’ current GM.

If you want to talk about a “weasel”, you ought to take a look at Brett’s agent, Bus Cook, who has consistently played the “retirement” drama as badly as anyone. I have no doubt that Cook has no small role in creating and reinforcing this stupid narrative that Brett was so terribly abused by Ted and how Ted is a bad person for not going on Katie Couric to apologize to all of America for daring to solve an irreconcilable situation by trading Brett to another team that offered the best return to the team he manages.

by 400metres on Oct 13, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

Thank you for providing that article. That completely changes my perspective on how I think TT handled the Favre trade. Favre really has nothing to complain about. If Favre’s agent knew it, I’m sure Favre did. For this reason why does it matter whether or not Favre was told right away by TT that he had completed

“Favre is willing to play for either the New York Jets or the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and he hopes a trade is completed by Thursday at the latest.”

TT actually did both things that Favre wanted according to Favre’s agent. He traded him to one of the teams Favre was willing to play for, and traded him within the time Favre had hoped for.

Honestly this makes me lose that much more respect for Favre. For him to talk like he had no idea the Jets were even interested in him and like he had no interest in the Jets was and is absolutely ridiculous. Favre is and was a great QB but he might be an even better manipulator. He uses that southern drawl to fullest.

by packallday555 on Oct 13, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh COME on!

You are reading WAY more into that than is warranted.

Anyone who was alive 15 months ago and not living in a cave, knew that the Jets were interested in Favre. It was not Favre or his agent who first talked about it either.

So what we have here is a reporter coming to favre after he left Green Bay, asking “Hey do you still want to play? It’s reported Jets and Bucs are interested in you, will you play for them?” What is he supposed to say?

No, Brett Favre (or his agent) did not say “I would rather play for Bucs than Jets” to a reporter. You are correct. But you are incorrect about why he did not. It is because — contrary to some opinions here — BF is not an @$$hole. Only an @$$hole (and an idiot with a complete lack of comprehension of public relations) would say that publicly, and indirectly insult a team for no good reason. Tell me, in the 19 years and 300+ games that Favre has played, have you EVER heard him slam another team, in ANY way imply that he thought they weren’t good? No, of course not!

Do you not see that saying he didn’t want to play for Jets — even though he felt that way inside — would be totally inconsistent with how Favre had conducted himself in his two decade career?

No, what he did was say what any player, any professional, would say (including Seymoure after Patriots traded him to Raiders, and he had a chance to regain his composure after flipping out at first). He would never say “no I would rather not play for that team” to a reporter. He would keep that to private conversations with his agent and the team who was shopping his contract.

In short: this news item proves nothing. And furthermore, Brett Favre has said publically, earlier this year, that he wanted to play for Bucs, and did not want to play for Jets. And Mike Tannenbaum, Jets GM, has confirmed multiple times that Favre blew them off, ignored them, when they first started calling to court him. Doesn’t my explanation above seem a little more plausible than these guys both lying in a consistent way with each other, and furhtermore telling a lie that really does not do them any good to lie about (particularly for Tannenbaum).

Oh, and anyway … since when did Bus Cook become a reliabel source for what Favre does and doesn’t want to do … LOL.

by puddnhead on Oct 15, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

So what we have here is a reporter coming to favre after he left Green Bay, asking "Hey do you still want to play? It’s reported Jets and Bucs are interested in you, will you play for them?" What is he supposed to say?

Of course he isn’t supposed to, and would never say no. But it wasn’t like he had a number of options. The only teams that were interested in him were the Bucs and Jets, (and the Vikings but TT made it clear he would not be letting him go there). He isn’t supposed to say no, but he could have said I would prefer to play in TB. It’s not like peope would have jumped all over him saying that.

In short: this news item proves nothing. And furthermore, Brett Favre has said publically, earlier this year, that he wanted to play for Bucs, and did not want to play for Jets. And Mike Tannenbaum, Jets GM, has confirmed multiple times that Favre blew them off, ignored them, when they first started calling to court him.

Initially he blew them off yes, but according to ESPN (which I recognize is not very reliable) Favre did at least have talks with them before he was traded there.

I mean if we’re going to blame anybody, I think it would have to be Bus Cook. I know this sounds ridiculous, but according to what Favre has said he had no idea he had been traded to the Jets until he saw it on ESPN like all the rest of us did. Obviously TT and Cook talked about this, and if Favre really didn’t want to play for the Jets that bad then why would Cook agree to this trade? It wasn’t like he had to say yes. He could have said no, and eventually we would have had to have traded Favre to the Bucs because it either that or eventually have to grant him his release.

I don’t know. I think the article 400metres provided above definitely changes things. I mean if Favre had no idea that the Jets were even in the conversation, and then found he was traded to them. Then hell ya, I can understand why he would be pissed. But he did know the Jets were interested. And Cook also said that the Jets were one of the teams interested in Favre. Now this may have just been because they didn’t want to look bad but I don’t really buy into that. Cook didn’t have to mention Favre was interested in the Jets, but he did.

Oh, and anyway … since when did Bus Cook become a reliabel source for what Favre does and doesn’t want to do … LOL.

Haha you make a valid point here. Choosing to believe the opposite of what Cook says probably is more reliable then listening to what he actually says.

by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if Favre had no idea that the Jets were even in the conversation, and then found he was traded to them. Then hell ya, I can understand why he would be pissed. But he did know the Jets were interested. And Cook also said that the Jets were one of the teams interested in Favre.

Again, you are saying something no one is disputing. I knew Jets were interested in Favre. So of course Favre and Cook knew. NO ONE IS DISPUTING THAT.

What I am saying is that, while Jets were lobbying Favre hard, calling him & sending crap to his house, Favre never said to them, yes I am on board for becoming a Jet. Favre has since said that Jets took a risk that he would turn it down, or stay retired. Tannenbaum has said the same thing, and he talked about waiting anxiously to hear how Favre would react the next day.

Now, if supposedly Favre had already told Jets he was enthusiastic and willing to play for Jets, your claim, then … why would Favre and Tannenbaum both be giving separate interviews later saying that there was a risk favre would refuse the trade? Are they both lying, or being misquoted?

What I’m saying here is that there are things that have been said by these men that your theory that Favre was notified of all this does not explain, but it all makes sense if you look at it the other way. If there is an explanation that makes total sense otherwise, why should I not believe that and not your theory which requres multiple people lying/getting misquoted to explain how it all fits together?

by puddnhead on Oct 16, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, you are saying something no one is disputing. I knew Jets were interested in Favre. So of course Favre and Cook knew. NO ONE IS DISPUTING THAT

Yep my bad. I wanted to say "and Cook also said the Jets were on of the teams Favre was interested in.

What I’m saying here is that there are things that have been said by these men that your theory that Favre was notified of all this does not explain, but it all makes sense if you look at it the other way. If there is an explanation that makes total sense otherwise, why should I not believe that and not your theory which requres multiple people lying/getting misquoted to explain how it all fits together?

Multiple people lying? The only reason I have changed my stance on this is because 400metres posted an article in which Favre’s agent said that Brett was interested in the Bucs AND the Jets. Now it’s not like I’m relying on TT as a source, or someone within the Packers organization, I am relying on Favre’s agent, which to me is really the second most reliable source, only behind Favre himself.

Sure, Cook could have been misquoted but we could say that for almost everything we read in a newspaper or magazine. Are we going to question everything we read? Or are we going to go ahead and believe that the wirter is telling the truth? It’s not up to me to decide.

by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh and I forgot

I never said Favre was notified of this trade. In fact, I don’t think he was. What I am trying to say is that Cook saying Favre was also interested in the Jets changes my feelings on this situation. Before, I knew the Jets were interested in Favre (like all of America did) but I didn’t think Favre was interested in them.

The quote above by Cook says otherwise. So now to me it’s like should TT have notified Favre before the trade? Yes, he probably should have. But since Favre was apparently interested in the Jets ultimately it doesn’t matter that he wasn’t notified of it because if he really was interested in them like Cook said he was he would have played for them anyway right?

by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen PurpleJesus

As posted earlier by Bart Starr, “This man delivered a trophy to your doorstep after decades of sucking- are you kidding me? He deserved to play until he was DONE in Green Bay and not until Ted Thompson (no nada whole lata) said he was. Don’t believe the crap that you think is intellectual that comes out your you know what- Brett Favre is just like all the rest of us: we work our jobs, we work hard, but as we grow older we are not as fast as the new hires, but we still retain the fire that drew us to our careers. He doesn’t want to quit yet and there is no problem with that- there should of been no problem with that in G.B. since he paid for the remodel of our stadium with his Jersey sales. When an employee DOES for the company like Brett has, the company should return the favor. Instead, Ted Thompson kicked him out on his ass like so many employers do these days. God love the Vikings for giving Brett a chance, god love the Packers because they’re are going to need it on Oct 5th, and thank god somebody respects experience, time served, and the tradition that the NFL was built on. I am ordering a John Randle Jersey so that I can cut it down the middle and sew it onto my Packer’s Favre jersey- because those are two men who know how the game is susposed to be played- not from your armchair quarterback spoiled 90’s Packer fan second guessing position on the wrong side of history- but from the trenches. GOD BLESS THE VIKINGS AND GOD BLESS BRETT FAVRE!”

by favre4evr on Oct 15, 2009 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup...

Just like John Randle, Carl Eller, Randall McDaniel, Chuck Foreman, and Ron Yary…all Minnesota Vikings Hall of Famers who didn’t have to leave the team at the end of their career…err what? Oh I was just informed that all of these players actually finished out their final year or two on different teams. Nevermind. I guess the difference is that these guys never delievered the trophy huh?

by TrevorR on Oct 16, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

to be honest

the post was mainly about coming to grips with remembering the good things about favre on the packers. as i said, he won 3 mvps and led us to 2 super bowls while he was here, i think we can all appreciate that on some level.

by sicklebeat on Oct 10, 2009 3:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That’s where I hoped you were going. I really enjoyed your post from the standpoint of the raw emotion you wrote about when coming to grips with a favorite son playing for a bitter rival.

Favre loves to play the game. I believe that was his primary motivation for not wanting to retire. It would be sad if he came back even though he wasn’t capable of playing at a high level anymore. But that isn’t the case. I wanted to mention that since my post above mentioned only pragmatic business reasons.

by Belarus on Oct 10, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great points both of you...

by PurpleJesus on Oct 11, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sicklebeat nice post!

Favre gave us so many memories, years, wins, losses, smiles, and nervous break downs all within a 3 hour game. Before the game last week ESPN’s love fest aired all the times they have had him mic’d his joking around, big kid attitude, and never say die ways drew everyone to love him and adore him. Favre was a great player for the Pack. I don’t love him anymore but I only have to hate him aleast 2 times a year. Maybe more playoffs, if we need them to lose etc. Otherwise he is just another player on another team now. I am happy with Rodgers and know once he gets a OL in front of him he will be taking us to multiple trips to the dance.

by bizzle4 on Oct 11, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post

by packallday555 on Oct 12, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that is legitimate

i realize the post was a little hasty, i was more or less concerned with all the packers/management/favre bashing going on.

whats wrong with cheering for the packers foremost, appreciating favre for the position he put himself in, and enjoying football as a sport to be debated, but not with anger and hatred.

when i said i hated favre when he signed with the vikings, i really meant it, but unlike most, watching him on monday night wasnt really a bad thing. watching him throw something like 5 interceptions against the rams in the playoffs of 99 or 00 was a bad thing, but i honestly think he’s an alright guy at most levels. he loves to play the game, we love to watch the game. he provided us with a standpoint of enjoyment few get to witness. football is about cheering for your team regardless of actual facts (and even with facts continuing to support your cause) , and to that stand i love the packers. i just had a serious problem with most of the negativity going around this blog especially right now. we should be relishing the fact that we have a fantastic qb, and our old qb is doing great in the position he’s in, regardless if its the jets, vikings, seahawks, or 49ers. i think there’s just alot of emotion going into favre (and favre fandom) right now. not only is he not worth all the negativity and blind support for everything he’s done for the franchise, he simply is a football player, regardless of team loyalty, and i think there i a little bit of that in all of us.

by sicklebeat on Oct 11, 2009 3:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Just deal with it

Your lucky to have had Brett favre. he should opf been playing in a bigger and much better market in Chicago,New York Or Los Angelas

Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year

by angryandy on Oct 11, 2009 5:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

WOW

A. Those words are spelled “Angeles” and “of”
B. Bigger doesn’t mean better. The Packers have sold out every game for about 50 years, including the yearly scrimmage.
C. We were not “lucky” to have Brett Favre. Wolf traded for him and paid him over 10 million a year.
D. The thing that’s wrong with baseball is that only the teams in big markets are able to be good, This is why football is the most popular sport in America, because of the parity.
E. I disagree with every single word fo your post.

by Donald Driver on Oct 11, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

by PurpleJesus on Oct 11, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he is angry andy

by PurpleJesus on Oct 11, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well he IS angry

but otherwise I also agree with every word of his post

by blackoutsox on Oct 11, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

You think he should have been playing in a larger market? A tractor riding kid from Mississippi? I do think it worked out and ultimately you were lucky to have him—just like Minn is lucky to have AP right now even though they made the pick to get him.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right

I think he was in the perfect place. He was a small-town kid, and the Packers turned out to be a perfect fit.

by packallday555 on Oct 12, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes I wonder if angryandy's posts are really some kind of strange performance art.

Kind of like Borat for sports blogs.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 11, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LMAO

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Got news for you

Green Bay is a fairly big football market. You can’t just look at the big baseball markets, and apply them to football. It doesn’t work like that.

Green Bay probably holds the most tradition and history of any team in the NFL.

Just because he was a big time name doesn’t mean he, or any of the other stars in the NFL should play for “big markets”. Baseball is ruined by this. I am a die hard Twins fan. The Yankees pay roll is like $160 million plus, the Twins is $67 million. Where is the fun in putting together an all-start team to play among teams, who for the most part have a similar pay roll as the Twins? It would be like the Vikes giving us AP, Allen, Hutch, K Williams, and Winfield. Or like us giving them Rodgers, Jennings, Driver, Kampman, Woodson, and Collins.

I personally just wouldn’t see the fun in that. The parity amongst teams in the NFL is part of what makes it so interesting. Any team can win any given Sunday.

by packallday555 on Oct 12, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually...

Its You’re, not Your
Its should have, not should of or should opf

Why should Favre have been playing in a bigger market? He’s a small town boy from ho-dunk Mississippi…he’s a country boy and was traded for by a small town team. It was a perfect fit. If Favre had been in one of those towns during his early years he would have been DEVOURED! He was a gunslinger who would have been chastised for not protecting the ball better. He was also a drunkard, womanizer, and drug addict early on his career and being in a big city could have ruined him…not only from the press but from what he would have had access to!

Being in Green Bay allowed him to be idolized and revered in a town that had no one else to idolize. He would have been just another great player in one of those major markets. Oh and while we are at it, what team would he have played for in Los Angeles?? cough cough douche cough

by TrevorR on Oct 12, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lord I love

The english teachers around here…

Isn’t there a good book you could be reading instead?

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

just thought I would join in the fun since someone else had already jumped on it and missed a few of them! ;-)

by TrevorR on Oct 13, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No worries my friend.

Like a man who can take a friendly jab!

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Personally, I could give a crap about Brett Favre.

It didn’t used to be that way, but that’s the way I feel now. If I went the rest of my life without hearing or reading his name again, it would be ok with me. I’ll care about him again around November 1st, and then probably not again until the playoffs. I don’t care about his legacy. It’s his (or as he said, “mine”) anyway. That moment finally removed as delusion I still held that his role in Packer history and the way the fans over here felt about him really mattered to him. At least right now. I hope the Vikings don’t win a title. If he was still in NY and the Jets won a ring, I’d be happy for him. But I like the fact that the Vikings have never won a title and I hope it stays that way. So I’ll root for him to lose, mostly because I always root for the Vikings to lose. If he manages to humiliate himself along the way, I’ll shrug my shoulders and think he deserves it just like anyone who constantly says things that aren’t true deserve the humiliation they get in return.

Someday Favre will care about his time in GB again. It might be sentimentality, or the chance to sign autographs or do TV ads when the rest of the country no longer cares who he is, but he’ll be back. And if I’m in the stadium when that day comes, I might boo him, but I won’t cheer. Most likely I’ll be getting a beer or some popcorn during the break in the game anway, and I’ll miss it. I even hope he goes into the HOF as a Viking, or a Jet, or whatever. Just not as a Packer. Because while his legacy is his, the Packers are mine. They belong to their fans, more than any other professional sports franchise. I can’t take his legacy away from him (and for the record, no one ever tried to do so), but he can’t take the Packers away from me. They’ll belong to me and my son long after he becomes that old guy in MS who tells the kids he played professional football once.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 11, 2009 6:28 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs

But I like the fact that the Vikings have never won a title and I hope it stays that way. So I’ll root for him to lose, mostly because I always root for the Vikings to lose.

That’s what I find most interesting about this. Granted its a situation that I don’t think we have to worry about, but if you’re a Vikings fan wouldn’t it be strange if after all these years they finally win the trophy and they have to watch a man they have actively despised for 16 years be the one holding up the trophy and getting all the credit? Maybe some of our visitors can share their thoughts on this. I just think it would be a weird feeling.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Oct 12, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I honestly don't think that matters

So many people I know who criticized Favre for his entire time in Green Bay, are now sporting purple number four jerseys and saying things like “I’ve always respected the guy” and “He’s one of the best of all time”. I think most fans are willing to overlook these things if it means they’ll finally get a championship.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 12, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely

You live in MN as well right? Or are here for college right? Fans are definitely willing to overlook it. All my Vikes fans went from hating Favre, saying “his wide receivers make him good”, and “he has the all-time record for interceptions”, to saying both the quotes you provided above.

by packallday555 on Oct 12, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, I've lived in Minnesota since I was ten after moving here from Wisconsin

and now currently attend college here as well. And all my friends growing up as well as the ones now had all previous gone from despising him and ridiculing me every time he made a mistake to full on jock ride mode talking about how I’m just jealous I don’t have as good of a QB and other bits of nonsense. But hey, I guess it’s like how many Packers fans went from loving the guy to hating him.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 12, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"But hey, I guess it's like how many Packers fans went from loving the guy to hating him."

Sounds about right. While I think those Packer fans are a bit more justified in their anger given the fact that, unintentionally in all likelihood, he’s done just about everything he could to break their hearts. But I don’t doubt for a second that I would have ridden my Viking fan friends pretty hard every time Favre screwed up if he had been a Viking from the beginning instead of the other way around.

Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 12, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Roger Clemens went to the Yankees. Just as much a bitter rivalry and it never mattered.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's an easy solution...

… at least for Vikings fans that hate the Packers. If I were them, and they won a title this year, I’d spend the rest of my life pointing out to my Packer loving friends that the Vikings won as many titles with Favre as GB did.

Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 12, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OUTSTANDING

The best post I have read in regards to #4 and the Packers! He CHOSE to stop being ours a long time ago and is now just #4…

Gotta love queen fans… Jump up and down like they won a SB when they won a game in Oct!!! Just like them to celebrate WAY to early!!! LOL

by Strohman on Oct 12, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post

How was last Monday night for you? Just an October game, huh? LOL

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What happened man? You used to actually provide worthwhile commentary

but now I just see you going about taking little pot shots at people. Thought you were better than that.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 12, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah..

Good point. Bad day…. I probably shouldn’t play blogger police.

It just gets aggravating when people insist on insulting others or a group of others (fans). Once in a while, I think some need to be smacked back in line and you are right, it is not my style.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I think on a Packers blog you’re gonna find people who are insulting other groups of fans (i.e. Vikings) the same way I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Packers fans insulted at the Daily Norseman. The way I see it, don’t expect not to get called out when traveling into another team’s blog, and don’t expect that you will convince people that your point of view is correct. But there is no need for anyone to personally attack a visitor without provocation.

That said, I think you do a good job of being the good kind of “invader” and not the bad kind :)
Your opinions have been worthwhile and so have a few others Vikings visitors (Belarus, etc.). Its the people who are so blindly devoted to Favre and are so quick to cast TT as the devil incarnate, and don’t back their opinion up with anything, that draw our ire.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Oct 12, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Thanks for the feedback

It is nice to be able to discuss football with all of you.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's cool PJ.

For the most part you’ve been pretty well behaved over here and I’ve enjoyed talking to you on both sites. We all just have to pick our spots. I used to hang around the Daily Norseman a bit, but I haven’t much lately because I didn’t trust myself to react rationally to some of the stuff I knew I’d find there after last Monday. A little cross-pollination between the blogs is good as long as we’re particularly respectful when we’re in the other guy’s house.

Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 12, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PS:

Referring back to your post above, Brett retired. Had a press conference, cried, the whole shebang. Then he said he wanted to come back. They said no. Reportedly Favre and McCarthy had a screaming match in which Favre was told he wouldn’t be permitted to compete for the starter’s job. Hard feelings commenced at that point, not with Thompson’s attempt to cut a deal that would get Favre as far from GB as possible and to prevent him from playing for the Vikings, which he clearly already wanted to do back then.

As for the high road vs. the low road, Favre may have said that both sides made mistakes. Give him credit for that if you want to, but it’s easy to take the high road when you’re the guy who ended up getting exactly what you wanted in the first place. Favre is the same guy who also told people that Thompson almost started crying and asked Brett why he was doing this to him when Brett showed up for training camp, called Thompson a liar, and said that Thompson pulled the rug out from under him by dealing him to the Jets instead of the Bucs, referring to “Rodgers as their Quarterback”, and denying that Rodgers ever called him (which Rodgers says he has). Favre might have gotten to the high troad when his team hit 4-0, since he was playing in Minnesota, beat Thompson’s Packers in prime time, receiving the adulation he’s become accustomed to, but he took some pretty low roads to get there if you asked me.

Thompson, on the other hand, has almost uniformly said nothing but good things about Favre and talked about how difficult the whole situation was. If you want to rip Thompson, rip him for his Oline (or cheer him for it, since you’re a Vikings fan). That’s what I do. Dude deserves it. :)

Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 12, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

Wow

A lot of things in there I never heard before. Very interesting to say the least. I guess if anything, although I have said it before, both sides are certainly responsible for what turned out to be a very bad ending.

You know, I had mixed emotions about Favre joining the Vikings…. First, as is probably obvious, he played for you guys for so long and I frankly didn’t want to be a “revenge” tool. Second, his age is certainly a concern although he looks to be doing and holding up well so far (let’s see in December) And third, I wasn’t happy that he turned us down July 30 when we courted him for so long and the word was he wanted to join us all along.

Now, all that in mind, I wasn’t comfortable with TJack as the man as he absolutely can’t come to the line and read a defense. I also had seen little to show me Rosenfels would be the savior either. So when I sat back and thought what other options were available, I convinced myself more an more that this made sense.

I do understand the GB fans anger. To me it would have been like Cal Ripken leaving the Orioles to go play for the Red Sox or Yankees because he couldn’t get along with the GM. Somethign you really never want to see.

In any event, I do enjoy the chat and debating some of the facts and appreciate you all welcoming me over here. I look forward to the Nov 1st matchup and will admit I don’t know if it will be quite the same outcome.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

During that time from June ‘08 till the trade happened Favre leaked a lot of info that was disparaging to the Packers. Every time that the Packers and Favre spoke, “magically” there was a new leaked report that always painted Favre in a positive light and made the Packers look like the bad guy. TT sends Favre his old locker and Favre goes on Greta Van Whoever and belittles the move. Now, I don’t care if he wasn’t overwhelmed by such a move, which was admittedly a little weird, but he didn’t have to go on national TV and belittle it. As TSSC pointed out, he put out reports that TT begged him not to come to training camp because he would get fired if Favre showed up, called him a liar and pointed out all of the times that TT went against Favre’s wishes, not realizing that he was wrong about every single one of those. He wanted Wahle and Rivera signed, both were out of the league by the time he was ready to end his first Favretirement. He wanted Mariucci to be named coach cause he was his friend and wouldn’t ask too much of him, ignoring the fact that McCarthy helped get them to the NFC Championship game. He wanted to trade for Moss before the ‘07 season, ignoring the fact that the Packers had the best WR corps in the league in 2007 and trading for Moss would not have made the 2007 season any better, gotten any more wins, or gone further in the playoffs. In fact, trading for Moss would have impeded Jennings development since he would have been reduced to 3rd string. Exactly the type of thinking that a player who has to concern himself only with the present does, in comparison to the GM who is aware of the fact the Packers wouldn’t just cease operations once Favre actually decided to retire.

The “bribe” that is brought up so often is another one of Favre’s leaks to the media. It is not uncommon for the face of a franchise to receive an appearances contract from the team once he’s retired. Elway had one, Marino had one, etc. It’s a way for the team to maintain the relationship with the player after he’s done since he still means so much to the franchise. When the deal was presented Favre leaked it to the media that the Packers were trying to bribe him to stay retired, neglecting to mention the fact that the team told him the offer would still be on the table regardless of whether or not he played last year. But the story about the Packers attempting to bribe the face of the franchise to stay retired was sexier and so that was what was ran.

I’m not trying to sway your opinion PJ, just giving you some more examples of the types of behavior that shows that Favre is no angel in this situation. I agree with you wholeheartedly that having Favre as your QB is better than the options of TJ or Rosencopter.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Oct 13, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

So a couple of things jump out at me…

First, Greta is a GB stockholder, no? If she is, why would she go out of her way to air something that makes TT look bad?

Secondly, I have personally never witnesses Favre self promoting himself. In fact quite the opposite. Recent events like the recent SF 49ers game ending play, Favre goes out of his way to say his part was “nothing special but the catch was pretty incredible”. Also, he has time and time again spoken highly about the Jets and Mangini even though for some reason there are rumors they never got along.

Further, it seems negative rumors follow Favre yet what we are currently hearing is nothing but great things about the chemistry with the Vikings and his leadership. We heard the same things when he was with the Jets until he left and then it seems everyone wants to tarnish the guy as “selfish”. Why do we never hear anythign while is a member of a team and always it seems to be backstabbing later?

I personally don’t think Favre is the source of your leaks. He clearly came out and admitted the whole arm injury with the Jets and never “leaked” it to look better. He even openly spoke on the field with Mangini in what looked like a very friendly way before and after the game.

I realize it is always easy to target the guy you love for so long who leaves, and portray him as a traitor. I get that. Nor am I trying to portray him as a saint. My take is that he seems to never try and hide anything and really doesn’t seem to care what people think (referring to his “legacy” comments, etc.).

My take on the whole thing is still that there was a lot of hatred between both he and TT and both sides did things they shouldn’t have and probably regret. And, to his credit, Favre is the only one to admit it.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First, Greta is a GB stockholder, no? If she is, why would she go out of her way to air something that makes TT look bad?

It was said that she was a “family friend” to the Favre family and a Wisconson native so she might very well have reason for this.

Secondly, I have personally never witnesses Favre self promoting himself. In fact quite the opposite. Recent events like the recent SF 49ers game ending play, Favre goes out of his way to say his part was "nothing special but the catch was pretty incredible". Also, he has time and time again spoken highly about the Jets and Mangini even though for some reason there are rumors they never got along.

Brett isn’t TO or Chad Johnson, he isn’t outright with anything he says. He used an injury (When he threw Mangini and the Jets under the bus) as an excuse for his poor performance last year. And as we’ve seen, he tried to paint himself in a very positive light, while painting Thompson in a negative one for their whole situation.

Further, it seems negative rumors follow Favre yet what we are currently hearing is nothing but great things about the chemistry with the Vikings and his leadership. We heard the same things when he was with the Jets until he left and then it seems everyone wants to tarnish the guy as "selfish". Why do we never hear anythign while is a member of a team and always it seems to be backstabbing later?

What don’t you get about this? It’s because the team is winning. When the Eagles and TO were winning did we hear any reports of controversy? How about when TO and Dallas were winning? How about the start of last year when Brett and New York were winning? No team is going to let negative reports get out while winning games. Now if Brett or the Vikings season fall apart, I guarantee we’ll hear something negative.

I personally don’t think Favre is the source of your leaks. He clearly came out and admitted the whole arm injury with the Jets and never "leaked" it to look better. He even openly spoke on the field with Mangini in what looked like a very friendly way before and after the game.

Brett personally sends text messages to media members like Peter King all the time. Seriously, man I know you like Favre now because he’s on your team and you’re now blindly defending him like we used to but open your eyes, Brett is not the saint you seem to think he is.

I realize it is always easy to target the guy you love for so long who leaves, and portray him as a traitor. I get that. Nor am I trying to portray him as a saint. My take is that he seems to never try and hide anything and really doesn’t seem to care what people think (referring to his "legacy" comments, etc.).

He doesn’t care what people think? Then why even do any of this in the first place. If he didn’t care what the fans thought, why hide his intentions and why not just demand a trade to Minnesota. If he didn’t care what Ted Thompson thought, why not just go retire onto his tractor in Minnesota. Favre cares what we all think about him just like all pro athletes, he loves the praise that is heaped upon him, that’s why many play the game. As much of this was about revenge, or the desire to win, or whatever else you can think of, there is also a strong desire to stay relevant.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 13, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That should read "Tractor in Mississippi"

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 13, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He used an injury (When he threw Mangini and the Jets under the bus) as an excuse for his poor performance last year.

Do you really think this was an excuse for his poor performance from week 12 on? The man had surgery and pointed out that it was checked out after game 11 and they found the tear. Typically you are pretty reasonable but I think your possible hatred, or dislike, for him is clouding your vision on this one. The man was unquestionably hurt , was having a great year until that point, and there is no question the poor performance is result of that injury. Are you trying to say it was an excuse?

What don’t you get about this? It’s because the team is winning.

The Jets were losing last year and outright collapsed because of his injury. Nothing came out until after he left. This is far different than TO as you compare him. The TO stuff always happens while he is there and they are losing.

Seriously, man I know you like Favre now because he’s on your team and you’re now blindly defending him like we used to but open your eyes, Brett is not the saint you seem to think he is.

Again, I have been pretty clear on my thoughts about Favre. I never defended the negative ways he handled the GB separation, in fact I pointed out numerous times both sides were wrong. If I were blindly defending him why would I be honest enough to point out where Brett made mistakes?

Brett personally sends text messages to media members like Peter King all the time.

Peter King killed the Vikings and Favre when he joined late. Let’s not make it out like they are best friends. I know Peter King early on thought it would be a good move but he changed his stance when Brett came late. Now of course he is backpeddling.

He doesn’t care what people think?

Yes, he has made it clear lately that “whatever wil be will be”. I think it is pretty clear he isn’t kissing up to anyone associated with the Packers to protect his legacy. What is so hard to see with that?

Then why even do any of this in the first place. If he didn’t care what the fans thought, why hide his intentions and why not just demand a trade to Minnesota. If he didn’t care what Ted Thompson thought

He did! he came out publicly and said “if I am not good enough for your team why restrict who I can play for?” Don’t you remember that statement?

Favre cares what we all think about him just like all pro athletes

This is probably fairly true but he certainly has let the GB relationship and his legacy go and obviously doesn’t care about it any more. if he cared about it, and what “we all think” he would have just stayed retired.

I do think all athletes want their names in the papers for positive reasons. I don’t get the point of view that any athlete, especially Favre, would go out of their way to have negative press written about them as you kind of accuse Favre of.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think this was an excuse for his poor performance from week 12 on? The man had surgery and pointed out that it was checked out after game 11 and they found the tear. Typically you are pretty reasonable but I think your possible hatred, or dislike, for him is clouding your vision on this one. The man was unquestionably hurt , was having a great year until that point, and there is no question the poor performance is result of that injury. Are you trying to say it was an excuse?

Why not bench himself then, if he thought the injury could prove a detriment to the team? Perhaps he thought he could overcome the injury, then he looks like absolute crap and says it was because of the injury.

The Jets were losing last year and outright collapsed because of his injury. Nothing came out until after he left. This is far different than TO as you compare him. The TO stuff always happens while he is there and they are losing.

The Jets were losing last year? They started off 8-3. They didn’t start losing until Brett wore down and there were criticisms before he officially retired. As for TO, there were no problems in Philly until after they lost the Superbowl. As far as I’m concerned there is no difference between the two.

Again, I have been pretty clear on my thoughts about Favre. I never defended the negative ways he handled the GB separation, in fact I pointed out numerous times both sides were wrong. If I were blindly defending him why would I be honest enough to point out where Brett made mistakes?

Because you seem to think everything he says is entirely true and accurate. When he says it’s not about revenge, you think “Hey, I don’t really think it’s about revenge”. You Viking fans should know pretty well to take what he (and your coach apparently) say with a grain of salt. Because wasn’t he going to stay retired back in July?

Peter King killed the Vikings and Favre when he joined late. Let’s not make it out like they are best friends. I know Peter King early on thought it would be a good move but he changed his stance when Brett came late. Now of course he is backpeddling.

You said it yourself, Peter King ripped them at first and now he’s back peddling. Favre and King are good buddies and have been for awhile, Ol’ Pete was probably just angry Brett lied to him about coming back.

Yes, he has made it clear lately that "whatever wil be will be". I think it is pretty clear he isn’t kissing up to anyone associated with the Packers to protect his legacy. What is so hard to see with that?

You say he “doesn’t care about his Packers legacy”? Then why go through all this? If he never cared what we think, why go through the trouble of this whole retirement, unretirement, retirement, unretirement saga and trying to make Thompson look like the bad guy? Brett could’ve just outright said, “I don’t want to play for the Packers anymore, trade me” and frankly, I would have a lot more respect than I do now. But he didn’t it, because believe it or not, Brett cares very much about what we think with that fragile little psyche of his.

He did! he came out publicly and said "if I am not good enough for your team why restrict who I can play for?" Don’t you remember that statement?

That’s not the same, that’s just another roundabout way of doing it where he makes Thompson out to be the bad guy. “Hey guys, I just want to be a Packer, that’s why I retired four months ago. But Ted here is being a big meanie and he won’t let me play here in this town that I love, so if you don’t want me then send me somewhere else like oh, I dunno….Minnesota.” He didn’t want to play for Green Bay then, he just wanted a trade to MN or a release so he could sign with MN.

I do think all athletes want their names in the papers for positive reasons. I don’t get the point of view that any athlete, especially Favre, would go out of their way to have negative press written about them as you kind of accuse Favre of.

Favre hasn’t gotten much negative press for his whole career and even the negative stuff he has gotten with this most recent unretirement has washed away after beating a few sub .500 teams.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 13, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He did! he came out publicly and said “if I am not good enough for your team why restrict who I can play for?” Don’t you remember that statement?

That’s not the same, that’s just another roundabout way of doing it where he makes Thompson out to be the bad guy. "Hey guys, I just want to be a Packer, that’s why I retired four months ago. But Ted here is being a big meanie and he won’t let me play here in this town that I love, so if you don’t want me then send me somewhere else like oh, I dunno….Minnesota." He didn’t want to play for Green Bay then, he just wanted a trade to MN or a release so he could sign with MN.

I also request PJ to provide us irrational Thompson supporters with one (just one) example of any professional sports team that traded a disgruntled star to a division rival. I mean seriously, wouldn’t it be far more offensive for Thompson to agree to release or trade Favre to the Vikings? How would that be good management?

This tired trope (i.e. “if Brett can’t play, why don’t the Packers just let him go to the Vikings?”) is so dumb. Favre was under contract to the Pack. He retired, then semi-unretired before finally officially unretiring, during training camp. The Pack had moved on and weren’t interested in playing the “will he retire?” game anymore. Brett requested a trade or release to the Vikings. The Packers balked at such an outrageous request. Talks broke down and it was agreed that the Packers would just trade Favre outside the division like any professional organization would do. The trade offers came strongest from TB and NY, with finally NY putting forth the best bid. Brett was traded to the Jets.

But according to PJ, Ted should properly genuflected before the throne of Favre and given him his release so he could go and lead the Packers’ most bitter rival.

How is this position defensible?

by 400metres on Oct 13, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't expect him to be traded to the Vikings

I simply stated that Favre didn’t hide his intentions once it became “game on”, that’s all. You seem to be arguing with yourself because I never said he should be traded to the Vikings from the Packers, nor did I ever say he should be released.

Before jumping the gun, you may want to review my comments and what they were referenced against.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know what PJ

you’re right on this one. I assumed you were rehashing an old attack on Thompson, when in actuality you were only reiterating the fact that Brett had requested a trade to the Vikings from the get-go. I don’t think that’s a point in Brett’s favor, but I understand why you would throw that out there in response to one of Charlie’s statements and I was wrong to attribute to you such a stupid argument.

But I do find it interesting that you have no problem pointing out my “jumping the gun”, while ignoring the fact that you’ve been doing that here to a great extent. You came over to APC to defend Brett and have relentlessly attacked Thompson. Meanwhile, many here have pointed out the factual errors in your perceptions about Thompson and some you’ve even conceded.

In a comment below, after thousands of words have been exchanged between you as a Brett defender and us as Thompson defenders, you still state:

But TT could have quietly called TB in the morning and said "the Jets upped your offer by a little will you beat it?", OR, he could have gotten up in the morning and said "Brett, we got a better offer from the Jets and we are going to pull the trigger on that", but he didn’t. And in my opinion the reason he didn’t was because he wanted that one little "gotcha".

This is what really annoys me about your perspective. You’ve come here filled with a lot of misperceptions about what went down between Favre and the Packers because all you’ve listened to is (a) Favre and (b) the fawning national media. Posters like Verno, Charlie, and myself have countered your views with facts gleaned from our proximity to the situation as it actually happened. Nevertheless, in the end, you still fall back on “well, that’s all well and good, but in my opinion, Ted’s still a shit.”

In other words, you’re prejudiced against Thompson because of your personal experiences and opinions, neither of which have anything to do with what actually happened during the summer of 2008.

Why not admit you just don’t like the guy?

by 400metres on Oct 13, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have learned a lot

There are a number of comments above that I did acknowledge I never knew about. Most were negative to Brett’s side and I admitted that.

I guess, as I mentioned earlier, as an executive level person in a fairly large organization, I expect more from front office type individuals. They need to look beyond anger, tame it and do what’s right for the company while not giving the company a bad name or reputation. I don’t personally harbor any hate, or even any dislike for TT. I just don’t admire him is as best I can say it from the way everything was handled. I think someone in his position can look out for the company while avoiding a situation like the one that happened.

Conversely, I really don’t expect that much from NFL players. They grow up from the time they are taught to play the game and everything they do is competitive and they are taught to win at almost all costs. It is raised in their blood and it is a far different mindset than a front office executive.

Now, once more I will acknowledge that I will let this debate go out of respect for all the Packer fans on this site.

Cheers!

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny...

I know everything he does is underhanded and TT is a saint. Kind of hard to have a discussion with you with the blinders on…

Case in point, the fact that you don’t want to believe he was injured in week 11 last year only proves your blindness through the anger you have for the guy. The Jets and Mangini paid fines because of it for goodness sake! They admitted they erred and should have made this public. So, no matter what argument you try to make you can’t because he was injured whether you want to turn this into some Favre is a d-bag move or not.

Now, did he continue playing because of his streak? Maybe I will buy that, but the Jets GM admitted that they all decided he was going to play because he gave them the best chance of winning and didn’t feel it necessary to list him on the injury report because he was playing. My view is that after dropping to 8-5 or 8-6 trhey should have pulled him knowing about the injury. Again, probably didn’t because of his streak but he could have easily took the first snap and gone off the field so I don;t know why other than they didn’t like their backup QB situation much.

Man, a few sub .500 teams? The real media change started after the SF game on the win with .02 left. then he comes back after being beat to a pulp in the SF game and throws an almost perfect game. Until then, everyone gave the Vikes little respect listing them on Power rankings at around 8 – 10. Once the SF game and GB game happened of course it became recognize what a difference he has made.

There is no doubt in my mind that right now the Vikings have 2 more wins than they would have at this point and both are attributable to Favre. With TJack or Rosenfels we would have lost both the SF and GB games so am I happy is is here? Absolutely. Am I prepared for his age to be a problem? Yes. I am a realist and worry about the upcoming stretch (Balt, Pitt and then GB).

As for Peter King he is backpeddling because Favre is doing well and didn’t create all that animosity King said would happen by showing up late. King admits he was wrong about that and that Favre is fitting in well. Heck, all you have to do is listen to the team interviews and you can see that. We don’t need King to tell us that.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thompson may not be a saint here, but he's handled it better than Brett

Sure, he was injured last year but please explain why he needed to throw Mangini and the Jets under the bus. Was it because Favre is a petty person? He sure seems to like to take petty jabs at Thompson and Packers fans.

Thompson hasn’t gone out and made accusations about how Favre handled the situation. Thompson hasn’t gone out looking for revenge against his former employee like Favre has his employer. Thompson has said nothing but good things about Favre. Thompson, is in no ways perfect in his running of this team but like Verno said, he handled the Brett Favre situation perfectly.

Brett retired, the Packers and Thompson came to Brett a few months later to see if his situation was final, it was. Then after moving forward Brett wants back in, Thompson and the Packers have already moved on, Brett throws a fit like a child, he gets traded. As for the trade, I feel Verno’s post adequately addressed that.

As for the Vikings, I didn’t mean disrespect by that. Of course being 5-0 is something to be optimistic and excited about, but if you look at it realistically, three of the opponents have a combined two wins between them after week five. And the other two games were at home against a team missing it’s best (and only) offensive weapon and a team with revolving doors at both tackle positions.

As for whether Favre is creating animosity, like I said we won’t hear any negative things unless A) The team collapses, or B) Favre collapses. Everything was great in New York last year too around this time.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 13, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, that was 400metres, not Verno

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 13, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

give it a rest!

Geez you two need to get in a room and have at it. Enough already!!

by TrevorR on Oct 13, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trevor

Just a friendly debate with someone I respect

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well...

I am not out to say who handled it better than the other, my only point was they both handled it poorly.

As for TT handling it perfectly, we can disagree big time on that. I for one, hold a position in upper level management and have to let people go and move employees around from time to time. Employees get angry when they don’t get what they want, or what they feel they are due. This is soemthing all upper level manegement people are typically trained to deal with. Now for me to purposely, look for some way to screw any employee who may show their anger or lets me know they want to go to the competition, that would put my job in jeopardy. Now, is this a perfect analogy of what happened between TT and Favre, no. But TT could have quietly called TB in the morning and said “the Jets upped your offer by a little will you beat it?”, OR, he could have gotten up in the morning and said “Brett, we got a better offer from the Jets and we are going to pull the trigger on that”, but he didn’t. And in my opinion the reason he didn’t was because he wanted that one little “gotcha”. And for an upper level executive that isn’t acceptable in my world and it is a quick way to harm your reputation amongst your peers. There is a politically correct way to handle it, and a incorrect way to handle it. Those executives who handle it politcally correct get far more respect and admiration than those who don’t. And it is this that I believe translates well to TT and his handling of the situation.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

[sigh]

Again, from the Sporting News article I linked to above:

According to Brett Favre’s agent, Favre is willing to play for either the New York Jets or the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and he hopes a trade is completed by Thursday at the latest.

    "Brett feels he needs to get into training camp," Bus Cook told Sporting News in a telephone interview Wednesday morning. "He’s ready to get started.

    […]

    The door to the Packers has closed on Favre, and they remained unwilling to trade him to the Vikings, Favre’s next preference. As of Wednesday morning, Cook saw the Buccaneers and the Jets as the only two realistic teams for Favre.

    "I haven’t heard of anywhere else," said Cook. "Sure, he’d consider somewhere else, but it would have to be the right place. I don’t know for sure, but I think the Packers have called just about everybody. Tampa and the Jets are the two teams out front."

So, why again does Thompson suck because he didn’t play the game by Brett’s rules? Brett was aware that TB and NY were the top bidders for his services, and was willing to play for either. The only thing holding up the trade being finalized was which team made the best offer. Thompson decided to complete the trade when he was satisfied the Jets offer was the best he could hope for under the circumstances. That’s his call and you can criticize that he should have offered TB the chance to alter their bid, but that’s an opinion and not a fact, and therefore doesn’t prove anything.

by 400metres on Oct 13, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please don't...

put words in my mouth. I never said TT “sucked” only that both sides handled it poorly.

Again, the deal was done to TB and in the middle of the night he changed it. I realized all along that he eventually agreed to the trade with the Jets because ultimately he had no choice.

Now, that being said, if you were sent somewhere you didn’t really want to go wouldn’t you or I be pissed? Of course we would. And human emotions being what they are I completely understand if Brett got a little extra pleasure out of winning Monday night. Not because he dislikes the fans, but because the way the whole separation was handled.

It is a fact, and you can’’t change that. That both sides could have handled it much, much better. And once again, Brett has been the only one man enough to stand up and admit it and that I respect…. Not a great analogy, and I am no Boston Red Sox fan, but David Ortiz stood up and admitted he took a banned substance and would tell everyone what it was that he did wrong when he got the test results. Again, that I respect, a man that will stand up and admit a mistake.

Now, for respect of the other Packer fans on this site, I will put this debate aside and wish you all a good game on our rematch Nov 1. As a Viking fan, I don’t like the matchup as we are coming off physical matches against Baltimore and Pittsburgh only to face you in Lambeau right after that. Not an easy stretch but one that good teams find a way to win. Realistically I would like to win all three but will be pleased with 2 of 3. Either way, I think it gives you guys a chance to catch up and I am sure we will all enjoy the ride…

Looking forward to it guys!

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

although you never specifically said Ted “sucks”, you did call him a “little weasel”, so I just paraphrased your perspective on the guy.

Take care of yourself personally, but I wish your team nothing but bad luck on November 1st. ;)

by 400metres on Oct 13, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That I understand

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So

I don’t want to be an asshole but Favre cares about what people think very, very much. We have watched the guy for 17 years! We saw all his interviews and all his quotes over his career. I’m sorry but we would know better then you. Just like you would probably know what AP is like more so then all of us.

He did! he came out publicly and said "if I am not good enough for your team why restrict who I can play for?" Don’t you remember that statement?

Haha you know just as well as I know that it was much more complicated then that. It was never about his ability to play. Everyone knew he could play. He had just had one of the better years in his career. The reason he wasn’t accepted back was because our organization made a commitment to Rodgers. TT and MM said this publically SO many times but it seemed like Favre just never chose to accept it.

If it were about his ability then TT wouldn’t have said he is welcome back for the 08’ season and wouldn’t have gone done to his house in May to talk to him about a possible comeback.

The Jets were losing last year and outright collapsed because of his injury. Nothing came out until after he left. This is far different than TO as you compare him. The TO stuff always happens while he is there and they are losing.

Comparing him to T.O. was not a good comparison. T.O. usually criticized someone weekly after games, even if they did win. Favre was not like this and has never been like this. Numerous Jets players came out and said the same things about Favre. Do you really think they would all just come out and say that if there wasn’t any truth to it?

by packallday555 on Oct 13, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahahahaha

Holy shit! I’ve never seen a post like this before! Sorry I went a little crazy with the blockquotes. Decided I wanted to try them out and thought that I needed to put them before and after what I was copying….obviously not haha. Sorry again.

by packallday555 on Oct 13, 2009 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't be

that…was…awesome!

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Oct 14, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Follow up

I really want to let this go because I have learned a lot that I never knew before. So much so, that I actually lean toward the Favre having the majority of the blame. I just don’t admire a top level executive doing something like TT did…. Again, don’t want to rehash it, I now realize TT admitted mistakes, but it was the mistakes by someone in his position I don’t like and unfortunately you can’t change that.

Also, I have always believed Favre does what Favre wants. And to that point I translate his willingness to play for the Vikes as a “he doesn’t care what people think move”. Maybe way back deep in his mind he may… but the Favre desire to compete and urge to prove he can still do it take precedent in his world.

Hopefully that explanation is something you can agree with.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 14, 2009 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

Blogs have been pretty boring. Can we start this debate over from the begininng? ;-)

by PurpleJesus on Oct 14, 2009 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

for actually listening to reasoning! wow. that is rare on a message board. You are right, Favre does what he wants…to some degree he earned that by what he’s done, just not to the point that he takes it I think.

by TrevorR on Oct 16, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that position makes sense PJ

I can understand how you can’t admire a top level executive behaving the way that TT did. Thanks for having an open mind about the subject and being willing to listen to a different viewpoint.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Oct 16, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes that is a reasonable POV

But IMO, BF was being paid to play football, while TT was being paid to handle team personnel. So favre screwed up on something that was not really about his job description, while TT screwed up the main thing that he was supposed to do.

by puddnhead on Oct 16, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey Purple Jesus!

I know this horse is beyond dead and we keep beating it anyway, but I just wanted to point this out. Maybe it’s not as direct as you would like, but Thompson was asked by the inimitable and completely awesome Bob McGinn about the Favre business this past August, and he admitted mistakes, at least in my opinion. Here’s the exchange, as taken from the Journal Sentinel Online (BTW, if you want astute Packer analysis, McGinn is your man):

Q. Murphy promised an institutional review of the situation with Brett Favre in 2008 and I’m sure you were part of it. In retrospect, did you handle it properly? Did you do the right things?

A. We tried to. I don’t want to get into specifics. I’m not going to talk about this very much. I’m sure there were mistakes made along the way, but it was a very volatile, complicated situation.

So there it is. I think that’s as good of an admission of mistakes as Favre’s was. But, whatever. Dude still put together a lousy offensive line.

Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 13, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

Given this information I actually admire his ability to stand up and say that.

Appreciate the info.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very Good Points

I never thought about that comment, about his legacy as “mine”. Poor, poor choice of words but that is a very good point and one that I can very easily see as angering GB fans.

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 8:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Awesome post Ted Simmons

Who knew that you were not only a great catcher and a swell looker but you’re a Packer backer all the way as well. I am with you on your every word and I have been saying basically the same thing: he doesn’t care about the people that loved him so why should we care about him.

by BSGorilla on Oct 12, 2009 2:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is supposed to be a non hate article

But I guess some fans don’t get it. And I suppose to hate Favre is better than beating the wife or kicking the dog. So for the sake of those two (wife and dog) keep hating. But send the wife out of town with the dog on Oct 31….just in case. Its a game get a life.

THOMPSON IS A MORON

by 4 where-ever on Oct 12, 2009 4:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

….just in case. Its a game get a life.

That might be an insightful bit of advice if it wasn’t from someone who constantly trolls the website bashing someone who is also a part of this game.

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 12, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you trying to be ironic when you say "It's a game get a life"...

… and have “THOMPSON IS A MORON” as your signature line? If so, kudos. If not, then it seems like you only have a problem with the “hate” of others when they disagree with you.

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle…

Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 12, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

+1

by PurpleJesus on Oct 12, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do the Green Thumbs Up signs mean?

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The are recs

hit the action button next to reply and you can either flag it or rec it. flagging it brings it to the attention of the mods (i believe, correct me if i’m wrong someone) and rec’ing it means that you like it or recommend it to others

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Oct 13, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

when something is recommended, I believe that is what makes it turn green as well and then it gets the thumbs up. at the very end of the post you’ll see 1 rec.

by TrevorR on Oct 13, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

by PurpleJesus on Oct 13, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Favre will win more superbowls in a Viking uniform than in 15 years as a packer

Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year

by angryandy on Oct 14, 2009 8:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

So he'll be playing QB for the next twenty years?

by Charlie Kelly on Oct 14, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

With apologies to Mitchell and Brandon...

That comment was so dumb I don’t even know where to start. I responded to the last really idiotic comment you put on here but I think you may have outdone yourself with this one. FIrst of all, he did win a Super Bowl with the Packers meaning that he would have to win TWO Super Bowls with the Vikings to make your statement true. Yes, he is in a 2 year contract, but not only would he have to win 2 super Bowls in 2 years (which of course will not happen), but it would also mean that he would absolutely be coming back next year which is uncertain at best right now but I also guarantee that if he wins the Super Bowl this year he certainly will retire, thus making it impossible for him to win 2 Super Bowls either way. Why do you even come on this blog if you’re just going to embarass yourself???

by Donald Driver on Oct 14, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Relapse

This was not meant to be a ‘Brett Favre vs Aaron Rodgers’ debate. When I posted, I wanted to just state some thoughts and emotions going through my head. Favre has many more years of experience than Rodgers, and who’s to say what will happen. Like i said in my initial post, either could get injured on Sunday and ‘there goes the career’, at least in Rodgers position. The Packers are doing what they can with the pieces they have, and QB certainly is not a glaring hole like the offensive line or running game, both of which might be correlated. We have a franchise QB, and the Vikings have a player who, even in their old age (and at the very least, through the first 5 weeks of the season), is not turning the ball over every single play, missing routes, and generally being a scumbag. I think the entire situation with Favre being traded has especially now been blown way out of proportion. Favre will play one more season at most, maybe win a Super Bowl, and that’s great for him (and yes, it is OK to say that, its only week 6 now, but you work with what you have). Rodgers has an entire career ahead of him at this point, and that’s EXCITING, especially since he’s an alright guy, and seems to do everything asked of him.

Both teams have what they need at this point in time, and 6 weeks from now, we could be talking about the epic collapse of BOTH Favre and Rodgers. Let’s just keep some of the conversation civil, and remember that this is a game. A game we cheer passionately for, and will love til the day we die, but a game nonetheless. Emotions and debate are a big part of football, but at the end of the day, no one is really ‘right’ unless they’re debating against a joker.

by sicklebeat on Oct 15, 2009 2:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Favre and his legacy

I’m a PACKER fan first and a Brett Favre fan second. He had his chance to play in Green Bay but he retired and waffled about coming back and playing. Yes inside TT and MM probably wanted him to retire so they could move on with Rodgers. A no brainer concidering the youth of the team. This could be good chemistry for many Years to come. I’m pretty positive that if Favre decided to stay TT, MM, players and the fans would’ve welcomed him back( no brainer). I think the JETS are a better team without Favre and his ego. To bad the VIKINGS wasted their time and money on him instead of a young QB for the future. Whats going to happen if there is no SUPERBOWL they will be behind for years to come. Oh there is that Metrodome lease which is up, and the new stadium talk. Favre has money, records, superbowl ring, and hall of fame lock what else is left REVENGE. Except the fans are the ones caught up in the middle. Just imagine if FRAN TARKINGTON went on to win a Superbowl with the PACKERS, or DAN MARINO a Superbowl with the BUFALO BILLS? EGAD.
I will not cheer for Brett as long as he is in purple. I liked him when he was a PACKER and after he retires( when ever that is ) but not now even playoffs.

by cheddarhead on Oct 15, 2009 6:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs