Ending The Bye Week Blues
It's been a rough fortnight for me, Packer fans. Not only did Green Bay lose round one of FavreFest 2009 (while watching Jared Allen and his lame-unless-he-was-on-your-team stirring sack celebration), but they headed into the bye week at 2-2, re-signed an old favorite who may or may not be ready to play, and draw a feisty Detroit Lions team that looks like it's charging back towards middle-of-the-pack status.
So there's that whole deal. Combine that with the fact that the Milwaukee Bucks are wrapping up their preseason (and Brandon Jennings looks even less ready than we thought he would), the World Series is shaping up to be a showdown between the Dodgers and Yankees (after yet another disappointing Brewers campaign), and hockey is less important to me than the price of high heels in Sri Lanka, and you can see that it's a tough time for a Wisconsin-native sports fan. Even my fantasy teams are imploding (1-4 and 2-3 in the leagues that matter).
It's tough to lose your last game before a bye week. It gives you an awful taste in your mouth about your chances afterwards. But then I remember that the Packers are playing the Lions at Lambeau this week. That makes me feel slightly better.
DET rushing vs. GB defense: Every time I think of the Detroit running backs, I think of Kevin Smith, and every time I think of Kevin Smith, I think of Clerks 2, and every time I think of Clerks 2, I think of the scene where Randal and Elias debate which trilogy was better: Lord of the Rings or Star Wars (definitely NSFW). Specifically, I think of the part where Randal reenacts the LOTR movies by simply...walking.
That scene is oddly parallel to the story of Detroit's run game. Detroit's top 4 running backs (Smith, Maurice Morris, Aaron Brown, and Jerome Felton) are averaging less than 3.6 yards per carry. Not that we're used to dominant running performances around these parts, but Kevin Smith and his 3.1 average (287 yards on 94 carries) does not strike fear into opposing defenses.
It's not even that Kevin Smith is a below-average running back. He has good size (6'1", 217), and excellent speed and agility. He regularly breaks off 10+ yard runs, and is even a decent pass catcher (19 receptions for 143 yards). But his line is giving him no help.
Jeff Backus (6'5", 305) and Gosder Cherilus (6'7", 325) are capable bookends (especially Cherilus, who is a nasty run blocker), but the interior linemen, Daniel Loper (6'6", 320), Dominic Raiola (6'1", 295), and Stephen Peterman (6'4", 323) simply aren't able to move defenders and open running lanes. Smith is the type of running back that needs space to gain momentum and use his second gear, but he can't get started because he's constantly running into brick walls.
Green Bay has fared well this season against opposing running backs. Besides Cedric Benson (who has looked every bit like the player Chicago wanted him to be, including breaking Baltimore's streak of 39 games without allowing 100+ rushing yards to a single player), the Packers have effectively bottled up opposing running backs. As a team, Green Bay is only allowing 3.5 yards per attempt, in no small part because of the "Big Okie" formation that puts 5 linebackers on the field, allowing effective pursuit to the ball, stringing plays out to the sideline, and cutting off gaps. Brandon Chillar is a surprise tackling leader this season (26 on the year), but 7 other players in the front seven have at least 11 tackles.
Advantage: Green Bay. As a team, the Packers do an excellent job of closing running lanes, while Detroit does not do a good enough job at opening them up.
DET passing vs. GB defense: When I was a kid, 'Transformers' was awesome. When Michael Bay tried to turn it into a summer flick, it made me want to further repress my childhood so that I'd have no memory of ever enjoying the battle of Autobots vs. Decepticons. But there's still one guy that makes me glad to have watched that cartoon: Calvin "Megatron" Johnson.
Whoa, nelly. Megatron is a beast. I know I gushed about him last year, but I don't care. The 6'5", 236 lb. Georgia Tech product managed to put up 1331 yards and 12 touchdowns on the putrid 2008 Lions squad. He is big, fast, strong, has great hands, and can make any catch at any time. He has been limited in the last two weeks because of injury, but coach Jim Schwartz says that it isn't serious and he is currently listed as probable.
After Johnson is where the problems start. Bryant Johnson is a first round pick who never lived up to his promise. Dennis Northcutt is a Jacksonville castoff, which is saying something. Derrick Williams has some promise, but is buried on the depth chart. Yamon Figurs is a recent addition, but will likely focus on return duties. Will Heller is a career backup at TE, and first-rounder Brandon Pettigrew was injured in training camp and is still trying to figure out his role.
Behind center, Detroit went all-in on Matthew Stafford, which I thought was a terrible decision back in April. Stafford hasn't looked awful, but he certainly hasn't outplayed fellow rookie Mark Sanchez (who is on a much better team). Stafford has a big arm (894 yards, 3 TDs), but merely average accuracy (56.8% completion) and questionable decision-making (6 INTs, 65.6 QB rating). Basically, I didn't think that Detroit should have spent first-overall money on a guy who may or may not work out at the pro level, but the jury is still out on him.
Ever since dislocating his kneecap against Chicago, however, the Matthew Stafford debate is moot for the time-being. With Stafford likely sidelined another week, Daunte Culpepper takes the reigns again. And you know what that means:

I've got these tiny hands...
While we remember his time with Minnesota in the earlier parts of the 2000's, Culpepper has never been the same since his 2006 knee injury. He's bounced around a bit before settling in Detroit as a stop-gap QB, but he's still a capable passer. He still has a big arm, decent accuracy, and can run a huddle effectively. As weird as it seems, one of Daunte Culpepper's biggest weaknesses is the size of his hands. For a few years, Culpepper was averaging over a fumble per game. He has compensated for his tiny mitts by employing an unconventional throwing motion, but when he tries to run or gets hit in the pocket, he is prone to losing control of the ball.
And Culpepper has been hit a lot lately. Seven sacks against the Steelers is downright Rodgers-esque. Even before that, though, the Lions gave up 10 sacks in 4 games, giving them 17 total for the season. The Lions simply cannot protect their quarterback, something we know all about. Backus is a decent blind-side protector, and Raiola has been around long enough to make good adjustments on the line, but Cherilus is still too raw, the interior linemen are too weak, and the backs do not block well.
Green Bay's 3-4 defense was supposed to be the kind that got after the quarterback and forced turnovers. While the +7 ratio fulfills the second part, the sacks simply haven't been there. Through four games, the Packers have five sacks. Two came against Jay Cutler, and two against Marc Bulger. Brett Favre and his porous offensive line wasn't even touched on Monday night.
The decision to change Aaron Kampman into a pass-rushing OLB was a head-scratcher during the offseason, and it's become downright dumbfounding in October. On the play where Favre had over 7 seconds to find a receiver, Kampman wasn't shut down by a Vikings lineman. He was in zone coverage, someplace he has been found all too often. Dom Capers' blitz-happy defense took a turn for the conservative when Atari Bigby went down in Week 1, so his return is much anticipated. The lack of pass rush has severely hampered the production of the defensive backfield. Charles Woodson, Nick Collins, Al Harris, and Tramon Williams are still ball-hawks. As long as they get opportunities from the front seven, they will break up more than a few passes.
Advantage: Push. While Green Bay has the clear advantage on paper, I want to see more results before I declare them to have any sort of edge.
GB rushing vs. DET defense: Detroit's run defense was one of the many weak points in 2008. Thus far in 2009, it hasn't been fixed. The Lions give up 4.9 yards per attempt on the ground. That includes performances of 142 yards by Mike Bell, 92 yards by Adrian Peterson, 121 yards by Matt Forte, and 77 yards by Rashard Mendenhall. Jim Schwartz has tried to fix the problem by shuffling personnel, but results are mixed. LB Ernie Sims was benched last week for rookie DeAndre Levy, DT Chuck Darby was waived to make room on the field for rookie Sammie Lee Hill, and Grady Jackson has seen more and more snaps.
It doesn't help that the Lions are starting Packer castoff Jason Hunter at LDE with the 240 lb. Julian Peterson playing both at LOLB and at the other DE spot. Aside from Larry Foote, the Lions don't have anyone that can really shoot gaps and take on lead blockers. Ernie Sims was supposed to be that guy, but he's currently in the dog house. Rookie safety Louis Delmas is a big hitter, but he's no Troy Polamalu just yet. The only run-stopper they have is Grady Jackson, who is getting up there in years.
Luckily for Detroit, Green Bay doesn't seem that interested in running the ball. I did a little post last week exploring where the Green Bay rushing attack has gone. As it turns out, it really hasn't gone anywhere, it's just been ignored. The team averages a shade under 100 yards per game, which is somewhat respectable, but they haven't been able to sustain long drives by picking up yards on the ground. 2007 Ryan Grant is still MIA, and DeShawn Wynn has been downright awful. Brandon Jackson is coming back from injury, which might help, but he's best suited to a 3rd down back role anyway.
Up front, Green Bay's injury problems and lack of depth have exposed the team in pass protection, but also showed below-average run blocking. With Chad Clifton returning from injury, Daryn Colledge can resume his normal role at LG, putting Jason Spitz back at C and Scott Wells on the bench. From here, the Packers have a better shot of opening running lanes, especially on the right side (where Allen Barbre performs well).
Advantage: Push. This matchup is like the stoppable force against the movable object. If Green Bay calls an even offensive game, they might have an advantage, but I don't see any at this point.
GB passing vs. DET defense: Quarterbacks like playing Detroit. Against the Motor City Kitties, NFL passers have put up 15 scores against only 3 INTs while amassing a 73.3% completion rating. While the Lions have had middling success getting to the quarterback (10 sacks in 2009), their highest individual total is 2.0 (Jason Hunter). There is no designated pass rusher, unless you count Julian Peterson, who has been a failure as a DE on passing downs. Whether the sacks have been from good downfield coverage, poor blocking by opponents, or a schematic advantage, one thing is for sure: they aren't blitzing very much (bottom third in NFL).
The defensive backfield has been a sore point in Detroit. Anthony Henry has performed well as the #1 corner, but Will James and Philip Buchanon have been switching in and out of the starting lineup. Rookie Louis Delmas is best used in run support, but he is capable in pass coverage. The Lions split time at the other safety between Ko Simpson and former fan favorite Marquand Manuel.
Passing offense has been, for Green Bay, one of the lone bright spots in a disappointing start. Aaron Rodgers has put up big numbers behind an awful offensive line, showing accuracy and poise despite getting sacked 20 times in 4 games and having to run out of the pocket on numerous occasions. The receivers have been somewhat underwhelming, amassing 10 of the team's 14 drops. Greg Jennings has been unusually quiet in the first quarter of 2009, and has gone on record to say that he thinks that the team needs to get back to the short-passing game that allowed he and the other WRs to create yards after the catch. Hear, hear, Greg.
Advantage: Green Bay. If Rodgers can get hit 8 times and still throw for over 300 yards, he will get good looks against Detroit.
Preliminary verdict: Coming off a bye, Green Bay seems to have changed a bit as a team. Mark Tauscher has been re-signed. Brandon Jackson, Jeremy Thompson, Chad Clifton, and possibly Atari Bigby should be returning from injury. The offensive line should get back to the group that started the season, and the defense should get back to the blitzing that gave us all high expectations for 2009. Perhaps this is the week where we see the 2009 preseason team in action instead of the poor impersonation we've watched for the last month.
I can't think of how the timing could be better than hosting Detroit. Unless it was Oakland, or Kansas City, or the Browns, or even the struggling Cowboys. See, Lions fans? Your team has improved a lot!
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Lions could sneak up
Detroit has been gaining ground all season ( no were to go but up) and I have seen this beforewere a team from nowhere comes in and wins. GB needs to focus on this, not Nov 1st. If they lose to Detroit in GB the laughter will be heard around the world.
THOMPSON IS A MORON
you finally have made some sense...
I agree that the Pack have to take one week at a time right now. The Lions are not to be taken lightly. They have some good veterans and good young talent. They havent been able to put it all together for 60 minutes, but they are improving on that week by week. With that said I think the Pack have tasted that defeat for too long now and will be hungry for some Lion meat. This game being in WI, where the Lions haven’t won in almost two decades doesnt scare me like the turkey game does, but that will be discussed when the time comes.
you still...
come off like a jackass, but your overall point is right. The Lions are a VERY different team than they were last year. They’ve brought in a LOT of new players. That said, they are still a bottom 5 team, just not THE bottom. They’ve managed to stay in most of the games they’ve played (beating MN going into half) but just don’t have enough.
Rumor has it that Megatron is limping on the sidelines in practice which is great to hear. I hope that the off week allow Capers to get the d focused again. I hope we see lots of blitzing and start getting some pressure. Duante has always been slow to throw and doesn’t throw the ball away. He can be sacked. The Steelers sacked him three times in a row last week to close out the game!
gee wizz
jackass wow thats tough. R U a hater?
THOMPSON IS A MORON
by 4 where-ever on Oct 14, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to go ahead and douse this little spark
before we have a full-fledged flame war on our hands.
Easy, gentlemen.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 14, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
It's the Lions!
For crying out loud, we’re playing the Lions! Are we so down on our team that we would write a million-word blog analyzing the matchups like it’s the freakin’ Super Bowl?
Packers will win big at home. They’d better.
I appreciate the analysis, quite frankly
And yes, they better win, but any unbridled optimism I had at the beginning of the season has been replaced with cautious optimism.
Are we so down on our team that we would write a million-word blog analyzing the matchups like it’s the freakin’ Super Bowl?
Million-word matchup analysis is all I have to offer to the site. You’re gonna get me fired!
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 14, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Keep Mitchell Employed!
He is too valuable to lose! Give him union tenure! Double his salary! Don’t let him leave!
Seriously dude, you do a terrific job. I didn’t mean to sound critical. I’m just disgusted that we have to worry about a game against the freakin’ Lions.
haha
i see what you mean, now. I agree with you to a point, but we all have to recognize that these just aren’t Matt Millen’s Lions anymore.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 14, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
No money, no perks, no nothin'
I started out as a regular commenter. I made a FanPost here and there, Brandon asked me if I wanted to become a regular contributor, and I did. The rest, as they say, is history.
I don’t do this for any other reason other than I enjoy it. I love football, I love talking about football, I love the Packers, and I’m fairly Internet-savvy. It was almost too perfect.
However, if some sort of paid position were to come about, I wouldn’t turn it down.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 14, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
ktenreb
I see that 4 where-ever has THOMPSON IS A MORON as a banner. Maybe I’ve missed it but I haven’t seen you attack the guy for that yet. Any chance of that happening? FYI I’m completely kidding around Mitchell.
Mitchell and Brandon say no more flame wars
So, I can’t take on n Thompson is a moron. It is a stupid name, though.
vets
the reason people are nervous is because our team is so young and we have watched them lose these games the past couple years.
this is where it would be nice to have a good amount of veterans that simply will not allow a loss. I think every fan is a little concerned right now that there is a chance we lose.
Lions are better then last year and will win a couple games this year, hopefully not this one.
I am excited guys are coming back from injuries, but disappointed that are depth is sooo thin. Giants have lots of injuries but keep winning games. Packers have injuries and AR gets sacked 8 times and we lose.
only thing I hope for is Capers unleashes the d-fense. They were having so much fun in preseason. That is huge for success, defensive players want to go after people, not sit back. Rookie QB is perfect tonic!!
Greetings from Pride of Detroit
Just wanted to drop a line and say whats up to you guys, while im not gonna sit here and say that the Lions are gonna whup on the Pack, im also not gonna sit here and say that its an easy win for you guys either. Dont let the record fool you, the Lions are an improved unit with a good young coach and some talent on both sides of the ball. Heck we took the defending champs to the last play of the game without our starting QB or Calvin Johnson, not to mention the other injuries that have piled up as of late. it should be an entertaining game, it may even be an eye opener in the way the NFC North will look like in the years to come.
Good luck on Sunday.
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
by BoscoHB on Oct 14, 2009 5:37 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
holycrap
you sound like a Vikings fan. I don’t mean to squash your enthusiasm, but… wait, yes I do- your team has never won anything! years to come?! history proves nothing then?!?
by warvette on Oct 14, 2009 6:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Come on dude
Bosco stated his opinion in a fairly civil manner and is correct about a lot of the things he is saying.
by packallday555 on Oct 14, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I remember a Bengals fan coming here
and saying don’t let the itty bitty putty tat bite you. The man was spot on.
I think we beat the Lions, but they better not be looking by this game.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Oct 15, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
what are they looking ahead to?
The Browns…I am FAR more scared of the Lions than I am of the Browns. I don’t buy into the “team looking past another team” thing. And if fans do, who freakin cares!!
and thats why i hate the Packers and their fans.
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
Don't let one guy make you feel that way
But go ahead, that’s what being a fan is. Hating the other team and their fans.
yeah, I have to agree
I’ve never heard of warvette, but I can tell you that he doesn’t represent the majority of Packer fans.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 14, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I never used the word hate.
I said the lions and Vikings are historically crappy. most packer fans don’t feel that way? are you serious? it’s no opinion. it’s true you dorks
by warvette on Oct 15, 2009 8:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Come On
A Lions fan came on here respectfully and you dissed him. That wasn’t right. We all know the Lions and Vikings don’t have a great history compared to a lot of teams but so what. I love the Bucks and outside of Milwaukee no one gives a crap about them. I don’t need a Bulls fan telling me about MJ.
I would expect it
on a bulls website! do you go to lions sites to brag up the packers?
by warvette on Oct 15, 2009 4:41 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He Didn't
He didn’t come on here and say the Lions were gonna kill the Pack and blah blah blah like the ignorant Belarus always gets to after he tries to act civil for a short time. He was saying the Lions are improved and he made some reasonable points. I don’t know if I agree with his assessment that the Lions will be good for years to come but I’m not gonna bash him for it. If he came on here acting stupid then more power to you, but he was polite.
i never said they are gonna be good for years to come
i wasnt saying that next year or the year after would be the year that we won a championship, i was merely trying to convey that the Lions are finally starting to do things right. It is just a fact in the NFL that teams go up and teams go down. The Packers are not gonna always be the class of the North. The Lions will improve on last year, not by winning 1 game but by improving as a unit. Next year they will add another piece, Stafford will be 1 year better, The defense will begin to show heart and they will improve some more. Eventually the Lions will have a top QB, a top WR, a very good RB, a growing O line and a stronger defense.
I thought by posting on a Packers site, i wouldnt have to spell it all out for you.
If you know football then you know what i mean, if you dont, then i dont wanna explain it to you anyway.
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
Easy Man
I was defending you and maybe I shouldn’t have been based on that response. I told warvette you were being polite and he didn’t need to bash your team. I guess you don’t understand that so I won’t defend you next time. Your first post was nice and respectful and then you throw out you hate the Packers and their fans because a new guy said something to you, and now your talking tough (you don’t have to spell it out, you won’t explain anything) to someone who just defended you. Relax.
And I was just responding to your comment that the game may be an eye opener for how the NFC North will look like in the years to come. That was obviously you saying that Detroit will become good. Am I wrong in that assessment? I’m not saying they won’t become good eventually. They probably will because the NFL is a league of parody but you guys need a lot of talent to become a contender. Looking at the coming game right now, if Calvin Johson can’t go there is no one on offense or defense that strikes fear. You guys look like you have the coaching, now you just need more talent. I’m not saying this to be a jerk, it’s just the truth. You’re obviously only gonna get better from 0-16.
I’m pretty sure he wasn’t directly replying at you. I think he was replying to the warvette guy but clicked on your reply option instead. Kind of a “reply fail” thing. BoscoHB’s a cool guy.
This should be a good game. Hope the Lions win. Good luck and cold beers to you guys and here’s to good, competitive, injury-free game. CHEERS!
thanks JazzyBBP
i accidentally started some trouble over here.
oops
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
yeah, i wasnt replaying to you. my bad
it’s tripping me out that i got jumped on. i wasnt even trying to start any trouble. Im just an optimistic Lions fan.
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
I wasnt replying to you GGGamer, my bad
it’s tripping me out that i got jumped on. i wasnt even trying to start any trouble. Im just an optimistic Lions fan.
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
you only got jumped by one guy
the rest of us jumped him.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 15, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
i wasnt saying that next year or the year after would be the year that we won a championship, i was merely trying to convey that the Lions are finally starting to do things right. It is just a fact in the NFL that teams go up and teams go down. The Packers are not gonna always be the class of the North
So not to be a dick or anything, but we will probably will be the class of the North for a while. We have the youngest team in the league. As soon as we get an o-line, we’ll start playing to that potential that everyone recognized before the season started. That being the said the Lions probably will be very good for years to come as well. Stafford, Smith, Johnson is a great core of guys to build around. Their all very young.
by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I look forward to the time both teams will be set for championship runs.
You guys are ALOT closer than we are, it’s gonna take the Lions at least 1 more year to get to where you guys were last year. It seems your defense still needs a tweak or 2 though. Not to knock one of your guys guys, but Kampman looks lost at OLB. Do you folks think he can adjust to the new position?
Actually
Kampman has done a very good job in his new position. He actually has dropped into coverage well, and when he does rush he usually gets some good pressure. The problem a lot of us have is, it seems like we’re dropping him back into coverage far too much. The guy is pass rusher, and an elite one at that. We need to utilize that, and him being in coverage doesn’t utilize his biggest talent whatsoever.
by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
not too worried
about Kampman doing decent at the position, I guess my concern is that we are really wasting his talent. We are paying him big money and not using what we are paying him for. He’s an average OLB but a Top 10 DE. Honestly I think the smart move is to trade him to a 4-3 defense and get some Oline or secondary help for the team. We have OLBs that can step in and fill his shoes very admirably…maybe even better!
Yup
Kampman hasn’t looked that bad in coverage like many people keep bringing up. He just needs to be given more opportunities to rush the QB. If they can get a RT or young LT in a trade I would definitely think about it. I really like this style of 3-4 defense but I think Capers would be better suited to play more 4-3 with Kampman, Barnett, and Hawk being better suited for that at this point.
I keep asking the Packer beat writers where all this talk about Capers hybrid went and no one will answer me. Everyone said Capers biggest strength was putting players in their best positions to win and not trying to put square pegs into round holes but that is exactly what he’s done. They need to start running some 43 along with the 34 IMO.
They need to start running some 43 along with the 34 IMO.
Yes, they do. I heard SO much about how initially we would play 4-3 almost 50% of the time. I haven’t seen any of it.
by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
And the players said they didn’t do and 43 throughout training camp either. It’s basically been completely 34.
It's not easy to do
An ILB in a 3-4 plays a totally different game than a MLB in a 4-3. Same iw2th tackles and ends and corners. It’s not like teams can freely swap in and out of the two. In passing situations you can go with 4 down linemen, but that’s because you’re in a nickel or a dime and have most of the LBs out of there anyway.
Bosco
I hope you don’t really feel that way. There are plenty of civil, respectful fans on this site. As far as my analysis on the game goes, I think this is a game the Packers should win. While you guys are much, much improved our strengths (on paper at least) seem to be where your biggest weaknesses lie. From watching your games the last two weeks, I personally would say your biggest weaknesses are your d-line and secondary. This benefits us very much. Our o-line has been very poor but for the most part your d-line has been too (though avril scares me a bit). If our o-line can manage to give Rodgers time, then Jennings and co. could have a favorable day against Buchanon and co. But Rodgers getting time is a big IF, as our o-line has been very poor like I said.
Your offense is very good though, and has had success against some good defenses so far this year. I would say the 3 keys to your team are Johnson, Smith, and Stafford. Can you give me an update on the injuries to Stafford and Johnson? I know Stafford sat out last week and Johnson wasn’t able to return last against the Steelers. Obviously, how effective those 2 are could have a big effect on the game.
And there is one more thing I want to talk about, which is Stafford. This guy looks to have all the potential to become one of the great next QBs. He has a very strong arm and is deceptively mobile. He has struggled a bit with accuracy though and turnovers, particulary INTs. I think our secondary may be able to exploit that problem. We have been the best unit as far as INTs go.
My guess would be that the score will be 35-24, in favor of the Packers. I feel like we have a more talented team then you guys at this point and should win. But it really wouldn’t surprise me if you guys pulled one off against us. You clearly have a much improved team, and if we don’t bring our a game we could be in trouble.
by packallday555 on Oct 14, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
lemme just say..
I never check lions, Vikings, or bengals websites. why their’ fans commenting here? it’s a good site, I guess I just have limited tolerance for fans from places that owe Wisconsin money!
by warvette on Oct 15, 2009 2:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Calling Mitchell!
TrevorR is being bad again!
Culpepper worries me more than Stafford
Culpepper looked pretty dangerous last week. A few 15-20 yard runs by him pretty much ends the blitzes. I voted “too close to call” because the Packers had problems against the Rams in the first half, and the Lions are definitely a rung or two above the Rams. They hung pretty tough against the Steelers.
This is a game where the Packers have to convince me that they have their hearts in it this season. If they come out like they did against the Bengals, I’m going to be really worried for the rest of the year.
100% agree
on both accounts.
Remember the veterans on the Lions wanted Culpepper to start in the beginning season. He is more effective and can run better. Unless Capers unleashes the defense, our drop back and watch approach will get hammered.
Also, if the Pack lose this game the season is over. We have 7 games remaining that we should win. If we lose any of them we may not make 8-8.
That being said, the past couple superbowl winners started 2-2. Lot of season left.
I have a different take
I don’t think the Packers o-line will ever be good this year even though I see improvement with a healthy Clifton and if Tauscher comes back effectively they could become solid, but I believe the Packers made some adjustments they needed to make and they’re gonna come out and play well on Sunday. I’m not gonna say it will be a blowout because Detroit is improved with that coaching, but I see the Packers making the adjustments they needed to make and coming out and winning comfortably. If they don’t, I will be pessimistic the rest of the season.
If Rodgers has time to throw, the Packers can beat any team in the league. The Lions pass rush is pretty bad and I think Rodgers will have ample time to throw and I also feel like they’re gonna get back to the shorter quicker passes. If that becomes the case I think Rodgers will carve up the Lions secondary. The biggest IF going into this game though is if Calvin Johnson is healthy. If he can’t go or isn’t close to 100% I do think a blowout is possible. With Bigby back the Packers will get more pressure on Stafford or Culpepper and they should stop the run like they’ve done against both Forte and AP. Without Johnson, I don’t see the Lions offense doing anything productive.
careful dude
they’ll call you a hater for that
by warvette on Oct 15, 2009 8:20 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The ones that get called haters...
end their post with and its all TT fault!
You can be critical and not be labeled a hater!!
I don't think that's so
The Packer World right now is divided really into two camps: The Favre Haters and the Thompson Haters. The Favre Haters will worship the ground on which Ted Thompson walks because Favre threw a few interceptions and Thompson stuck it to him, while the Thompson Haters will forever deify Favre because Thompson has a lousy draft record and dumped a Pro Bowl quarterback that was one game from the Super Bowl. People like YOU and ME try to be objective about the state of the team, but we get pilloried by the likes of [NAME WITHHELD], who actually wanted to meet me in person, presumably to make his point with violence!
It’s great to be a fan and support your team. But some teams, like those for which nincompoops like Matt Millen and Sal Bando are employed as general manager, don’t deserve their fans’ support. I think it’s a fair debate right now whether the Packers are heading in the right direction. That doesn’t make me a “hater,” at least in my mind, but at the same time I’m not about to blow smoke up everybody’s [PROFANITY EXCLUDED] because that’s all anybody wants to hear.
Favre vs. Thompson = red herring
I think fans and the media cut Thompson way too much slack, which is kind of strange coming from the fan base that piled the hate on Shermie and invented the Legend of Dan Devine’s Dog. Thompson gets some things right and some things wrong. The Favre decision neither makes the right wrong or the wrong right.
For the record, i think that the Favre decision was generally the correct call, although it was executed in cowardly and classless CYA fashion. I get the feeling that a lot of the positive vibes sent in TT’s direction are emitted by folks who like the way TT handled it. To them i say enjoy TT while you can. I will not argue about the Favre decision because it comes down to a matter of taste. Don’t even bother.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Oct 16, 2009 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Another Question ktenreb
Didn’t you just speak on ending the flame wars? So why come on here and say [name witheld] when we all know who you’re talking about. And if I can remember correctly (which I can) your memory of someone wanting to meet you in person to presumably make a point with violence never occurred. Saying that you talk big over the internet and that you probably wouldn’t be so blunt and verbally attacking in person is a lot different than face to face violence. Quit making stuff up. You remember the point that was actually posted for Mitchell and Brandon and face to face violence was never brought up so stop with the exageration. No one ever said they wanted to fight you. You continue to bring stuff up that should be left alone. You’re too old to keep acting juvenile.
In regards to people being objective, you aren’t the only one. You’ve called me a Thompson hero worshiper and a Favre hater and I’m neither one. I’m less critical of Thompson than you are but I’m still critical of him. I didn’t have a problem with Favre with the Jets but I did when he went to the Vikings. That doesn’t make me or anyone else who didn’t like that move a hater. It makes them a serious Packer fan. I’m not saying people aren’t Packer fans who still like Favre because you can still be both but no one is a serious Packer fan if they root for Favre to beat the Packers twice a season. There are tons of Thompson haters and there are tons of Favre haters, but I see those who defend Thompson on some things also being critical of his moves (like me) and you never see that with Favre lover/Thompson haters. That is the difference. There isn’t only two camps like you say. A small but loud minority are Favre lover/Thompson haters but most Packer fans are like myself; Thompson needs to step up to prove himself, the move to Rodgers was a good one, and Favre going to the Vikings was cold. I don’t fit in either camp.
Narcissism
Please stop with your thin skin. I am not refferring to you. There is a world outside of you.
Brandon and Mitchell — will you please warn this guy?
completely disagree
I don’t love either of them. I love the Packers. I hate the Vikings and Bears. If a player leaves my team to go to one of them, they become the enemy. I still have all my Favre memorabilia. When this is all done, I am sure I’ll leave it in the past. I don’t hate or love TT…I think he’s made some incredibly stupid moves (won’t linger on them since we all know what they are) but he’s made some nice ones too and I think the team has tons of potential. I do wish he’d make a move to get one or two key guys from FA like Wolf would have but otherwise I like his approach.
I think TT made the right move with Favre. Honestly I was sick of the drama every year and was ready to see him retire so I could see what the future of the team held. Him being on the team didn’t make much sense…super old QB who wants to make a run at the super bowl on the youngest team in the league trying to set itself up for the future. His retirement allowed that to happen…I was frustrated when he came back…both sides acted like little children.
I don’t think you have to take a side at all!
Exactly TrevorR
I love the Packers and I hate anyone they play. F***e is a Viking now so I don’t like him, but that’s because I’m a Viking hater. Once he retires and is away for a little bit none of this will probably even matter anymore. People want to make it out like there are two camps but there really aren’t. Most people are just plain old Packer fans and those who are now rooting for the Vikings were just F***e fans to begin with so not much has changed. The majority of those who absolutely despise Thompson were huge F***e fans and that is about the only difference because they’ve changed sides.
It comes down simply to this ktenreb:
1. I love the Packers
2. I hate their opponents (F***e is now a Viking so he fits in this group now)
3. I liked how Thompson developed this team the first few years but now he needs to take a couple chances to put this team over the top. He’s being too conservative at this point.
4. A lot of folks are concerned about the future but I see a super talented team that is a couple of o-lineman, an o-line coach, and an inside linebacker (maybe Bishop) away from being where the Saints and Giants are right now.
by GGGamer on Oct 16, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
If Rodgers has time to throw, the Packers can beat any team in the league.
This really is true. I mean we saw what he did against the Vikes running for his life, and he hung some very nice numbers against a Bengals secondary that looks like one of the better ones in the league. It’s been so disappointing to see how poor our o-line is. They looked so good in preseason and I guess that shows me for thinking they would be good based off of that.
by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Haiku Haitus
Packers coming back
And so is Pack Haiku man
Enjoyed my bye week
http://PackerHaiku.com
Clark Osborn - PackerHaiku.com | FavreHaiku.com | BadgerHaiku.com
Why is it
that almost every single post on this site ends up devolving into an argument involving Favre? Do we need to do more Favre posts so people can get it out of their system? Or does a Packers-Lions preview in 2009 actually have some sort of bearing to the Vikings current quarterback?
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 15, 2009 5:15 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I say you start chucking people for using the "F Word" during weeks in which...
… the Packers aren’t within 7 days of Viking game (either before or after).
:)
Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 15, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
This does seem to be true
I think we have all (myself included) got what we needed to say out there regarding the F**** situation. At this point the arguments seem to be people reiterating what they have already said. You should end all of the Favre arguments as you did with the flame war that was about to erupt in this thread. I recognize this is childish to ask of you but otherwise many of the threads likely will turn into this.
by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Lions + 13.5/14 pt. underdogs are a good bet
Discuss!
With the Packers coming off the bye and at home, it’s really hard for me to put money on the Lions. On the other hand, it’s not that hard to imagine scenarios with margins of victory less than the spread. How would Flynn do if Rodgers were knocked out of the game?
Over? Under?
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Oct 16, 2009 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
AMEN!
I wish I never had to talk about Favre in here again unless its a Vikings game. Can we just not talk about him anymore? PLEASE? He’s not our QB, he’ll never be our QB again. One day he’ll retire a Packer again and everything will be restored but geez…can we just talk about something, ANYTHING without it coming back to him?
Mitchell_M:
If you’re looking to avoid the blues, then you should probably stop paying attention to the Bucks or the NBA in general.
Personally, I don't give a crap about Brett Favre.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 15, 2009 5:43 PM CDT reply actions
ouch
sick burn.
I love the NBA. I do not love the replacement refs, though. 2009 is gonna be a rough season, especially whenever Young Money posts a 3-12 shooting night with 5 turnovers.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 15, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha
So I was going to ask you how Jennings has looked but judging by your comment I feel like I should be able to figure this out by myself haha. Does he look more “ready” in comparison to the other rookies? I feel like I read so much on how he should be more “ready” because of playing overseas against grown men.
by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Jennings is ready to play in the NBA
that’s no question. He won’t ever embarass himself.
That said, he still takes WAY too many shots for a player who’s supposed to be a pass-first point guard. He can make any shot at any time, but he’s too streaky, mostly because of his poor mechanics. Once he settles himself down on offense, he is simply too fast and too good a passer to contain.
On defense, he is the kid on X-Box who constantly mashes the X-button. He is an absolute pest on defense and comes up with a LOT of steals. He still gambles too much, and has trouble keeping guys in front of him (again, poor mechanics).
The great thing is that all of his flaws can be fixed by good old-fashioned coaching. Once he figures things out, he will be a great point guard in the League. But even this season, when he drops 3-12 with 5 TO’s, he’ll still get 10 assists and attempt double-digit free throws. He is without a doubt the spark that the Bucks needed as a franchise to get themselves out of the cellar.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 15, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
For the analysis. Your spot on about that shot. The mechanics are not good but when he is on, he doesn’t miss much.
Ya, I had the pleasure of watching him play at an AAU tourney of mine and he kind of reminded me of Allen Iverson (the young version) on defense because of his athleticism and quicks.
I agree with you, he probably will be the spark the Bucks need. I couldn’t believe he slipped all the way to 10th to you guys. I was kind hoping the T-Wolves would take him and Curry with the 5th and 6th pick but they didn’t do either haha. Thanks again.
by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I absolutely FREAKED out
when the Wolves took Rubio-Flynn. After Curry went to GS, I knew that the Raptors and Knicks weren’t necessarily looking PG (especially Jennings) in the draft, so I was convinced he had a chance to fall to 10. When he did, I celebrated in a way I haven’t celebrated since Aaron Rodgers fell to 24 back in 2005.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 15, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha
I hear ya there. I absolutely couldn’t believe it either. Anyone with common sense should have known Rubio wasn’t going to come to Minnesota, and while Flynn is a good player, he simply does not have the potential Curry or Jennings have.
by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why the Timberwolves are the Timberwolves
Remember when they traded Brandon Roy? Or traded OJ Mayo for Kevin Love?
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 16, 2009 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah
They’ve made some absolutely awful moves up here in MN. Everytime they draft a future star they trade him for three average players. They are the kind of guys you want in your FF league. They end up with the team of all average players and they never know who to start while you get a starting team of superstars and kill them all the time.
Don't sleep on the Wolves, though
between Al Jefferson, Kevin Love, and Randy Foye, they’ve got some potential to make noise before too long.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 16, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
No sleep on them
I’m sorry Mitchell but the Wolves are horrible. We traded Foye to the Wizards and got virtually nothing return. Love is average. He is good for 10 rebounds a game but he isn’t athletic enough to be very good on offense. Really the only guy is Jefferson and he is an absolute stud.
Though like I mentioned above I like Sessions. We probably will win more then 20 games this year, at least I hope, but we’re at least 2 years away from being a good team.
by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Foye to the Wizards
Oh, yeah. Along with Mike Miller, right? I forgot about that.
My bad.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 16, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Ya Miller too
No problem it happens haha.
by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha god
I couldn’t believe either of those moves. Had we kept both of them we could have a really good team right now. Roy, Mayo, and Jefferson is a damn good group to build around and their all younger then 26. But of course McHale had to get some big, slow white posts in here that remind him of himself…what an idiot.
by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea, I never got why they drafted another Power Forward in Love.
And sure they could use Jefferson at center but I don’t like the idea of having a backcourt with nobody at 7 feet or higher. Also, as long as the Wolves keep drafting this bad, you don’t have to worry about them, they won’t be signing any big name free agents soon.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 16, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Love is a really skilled player
and an excellent rebounder. I suppose it’s more conventional to have some more muscle down low, but I actually like the Jefferson-Love combo. Mismatches galore.
Unfortunately, Love fractured his hand last night, so that’ll stall things.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 17, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh ya he is
He is very skilled and is a great rebounder but he lacks athleticism, and in the NBA that can be a problem. He has good moves but had trouble getting them off last year against bigger, more athletic guys then him.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Does he have enough parts around him?
I don’t know if the Bucks are going to have enough offense this year. It’s hard to get assists without somebody to score. He may have to jack it up 12 times a game.
The Bucks have actually done a decent job
collecting offensive talent. Michael Redd may be vastly overpaid and on the trading block, but he’s the best shooter on the team and one of the best in the league. Andrew Bogut is skilled around the hoop and can score with either hand. Carlos Delfino is a decent 3-point shooter. Ersan Ilyasova was originally a 2nd round pick, but spent some time in Europe adding rebounding and ball-handling to his repitoire, but he can shoot the ball as well.
The most exciting addition was Hakim Warrick, who had his qualifying offer from Memphis unexpectedly pulled as the Grizzlies were looking to add Allen Iverson. Warrick is a skinny PF who can run the fast break and finish at the hoop. He’s a good slasher and gets to the free throw line better than anyone else on the team currently. Look for lots of Jennings-Warrick hookups this season.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 15, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow
I haven’t been following the NBA as close lately but that Bucks team has some potential. Redd really is a great player he just needs to stay healthy. No one can shoot it like him. Delfino really is an underrated guy. He can do it all and has pretty good athleticism. Jennings makes Warrick much more relevant, and will help him out tremedousley. (Kind of like what CP3 did for Chandler).
With Bogut inside, some good 3 point shooters on the arc, and Jennings creating the Bucks could be really good.
BTW- We signed Sessions away from you guys, and he has looked pretty good. I hadn’t seen him play a whole lot before like 1-2 weeks ago, and I’ve been really impressed. How was he for you guys?
by packallday555 on Oct 15, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Ramon Sessions in a nutshell
First of all, his name is pronounced “ra-MON”, not “ra-MOAN”. You can always tell people who don’t really pay attention to young NBA players when they say it incorrectly. It irritates me.
On offense: big enough to play the 1 or 2, gets into the lane at will, an able passer, finishes at the hoop well, draws fouls, absolutely CANNOT hit a jump shot outside of 15 feet, terrible ball control, needs shooters around the arc to be most effective.
On defense: average on-the-ball skills, poor off-ball defense, gets lost in rotations, closes out on shooters fairly well, rebounds extremely well for his position, knows how to challenge shots.
There’s a big reason the Milwaukee brass let Sessions walk: he is what he is, and he really won’t improve much further. Yes, a jump shot is a learnable skill, and he’s got good size, and as the team gets better so will he, and blah blah blah, but quite frankly, his development has plateaued.
He will be the next underrated-player-that-everyone-says-is-underrated-to-the-point-that-he’s-overrated. He has a few skills that he was born with and uses effectively. When John Hollinger or David Thorpe talks about “all he needs is this” or “if he could just do that”, they’re just blowing hot air. Sessions will not grow past what he is today.
Sorry to be a downer on him, but I was secretly glad they let him walk.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 15, 2009 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Great Points Mitchell
You’re right on with your analysis of Jennings and Sessions. Jennings could be that star the Bucks so desperately need for the future to go along with Bogut, Mbah a Moute, and a couple of players like Ilyasova and Warrick off the bench. If BJ develops the Bucks could only be one Chris Bosh away from contending.
You labeled Sessions perfectly as well. The guy can wow you every once in a while and make you think he’s gonna be really good and then his play brings you back down to earth eventually. The guy is one of the worst off-ball defending point guards I have seen in my life. He gets lost too many times to count when he’s guarding a good shooter that most players would understand they can’t leave. He is what he is.
Haha damn
The guy can wow you every once in a while and make you think he’s gonna be really good and then his play brings you back down to earth eventually.
Haha sounds like this is what I saw the other night. It’s clear when you watch him that he has the physical ability and talent to be a very good player, but based off of what you and Mitchell said he never will become one.
So I got a question to anyone who pays any attention to the NBA. Who do you think is the preseason favorite to win it all? I personally like the Celtics, assuming KG is 100% healthy like everyone says he is. But then again I could easily see the Lakers winning it all again. Artest > Ariza, and they didn’t lose anybody else. Then you look at the Magic. They’ll get a 100% healthy Nelson back, plus Howard, Lewis, and Carter. Or could it be the Cavaliers? Adding Shaq (though he is no where near where he used to be) could help a lot. And last but not least, the Spurs. Ginobli will be 100%, and when they have him, Parker, and Duncan all going their damn hard to stop. Then add Jefferson into the mix, and things likely get much better. (Just want to point out that I hate the Spurs. To me their kind of like the Patriots of the NBA.)
I know this is a football thread but we started talking about the NBA and it just got me thinking haha.
by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
All of the above
I see the Lakers (Artest added), Celtics (Wallace added), Magic (Carter added, healthy Nelson), Cavs (Shaq added), and Spurs (RJ and healthy Manu) all having a shot. I think those five teams are gonna absolutely dominate the league this season. Everyone of them is completely loaded.
This year is gonna be between the Cavs and Spurs
The Celtics are getting too old and I doubt that all of their top players make it through the season unscathed. Signing Sheed was a desparation move if I’ve ever seen one. They’ll win, but not in the playoffs.
The Magic let go of their best asset (Hedo Turkgolu) and young player (Courtney Lee) and turned them into Vince “I Do Try…Sometimes” Carter. They were unconventional last year, and it made them strong. Now they’re totally conventional and teams will have an easier time defending them.
The Lakers are still a powerhouse, but I bet that Artest’s ego/personality combined with the PT battle between Odom and Bynum will derail them along the line. Bryant and Gasol will still perform, but Phil Jackson’s simply got too many mouths to feed now. That and below-average PG play (Sorry, Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmar are not great options) will scuttle them way sooner than people expect.
The Spurs got the wing scoring they desperately needed. The Cavaliers got a low-post presence to balance LeBron’s dominance. Between those two, I actually like the Cavs, but not because of LeBron or Shaq, but Anthony Parker. He’s a bit old, but a great shooter, decent defender, and will sell out for a championship.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Oct 16, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I personally think
It will be between the Spurs and Lakers for the West, and the Celtics and Magic for the East.
From there I think the Lakers and Celtics win and we see a rematch of 07’ finals. As to who wins it? I have no idea.
While getting Shaq was a good move, I just don’t think it was enough. LeBron is great but he has had to carry the load by himself too much, and I don’t think Shaq will take enough of that load off.
I disagree about Artest messing that team up. Kobe is too good of a leader and captain to let that happen. I also don’t think there will be a huge to do about playing time, because Odom has alreayd been coming off the bench. Fisher and Farmar are solid but when they are bad it’s not that big of a deal because Kobe brings the ball up a lot of the time anyway.
It’s really going to be interesting to watch and see how things play out. I always follow the NBA but not all that much as they really don’t start trying to the playoffs begin. (I’m more of a college basketball guy). But this year really has me excited for everything to get under way.
by packallday555 on Oct 16, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions

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