Recap: Green Bay Packers Defeated in Minnesota, 23-30
by Brandon on Oct 6, 2009 7:01 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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PrintPaging LT Levi Jones. They can't sign him quick enough. The Packers played a really strong game, but the story will be the problems at left tackle. I try hard not to overreact to a bad game, but this wasn't one bad game. It's been bad all season, topped off by the disaster in Cincinnati when DE Antwan Odom had 5 sacks, and now the 4.5 sacks by DE Jared Allen. I actually can't believe Allen only had 4.5 sacks; it seemed like he had 10. LT Daryn Colledge was bad, and backup LT T.J. Lang was, if anything, even worse. Lang deserves some slack since it was his first NFL appearance. Though LT Chad Clifton should be back after the bye week, there has to be a Plan B. Hopefully Jones isn't holding out for a starting job, and will gladly accept a seat on the bench and a couple million dollars if Clifton is healthy.
Lost in the left tackle disaster was the play of SS Derrick Martin. It was technically his 2nd start, but he didn't play much last week in St. Louis. He looked lost on the big 42 yard pass play to WR Percy Harvin. He then blew the deep help on the 31 yard TD pass early in the 3rd quarter to WR Bernard Berrian, and got CB Al Harris, literally, stomping mad. He was then benched in favor of CB/S Jarrett Bush. It's the same situation as with Clifton; SS Atari Bigby should be back after the bye week.
It would have been a great win, but it wasn't a must-win. There's still a lot of season left, the Packers only have 2 losses, and the Vikings aren't going to go unbeaten. There was a lot I liked in this game. The run defense was outstanding, especially in the 4th quarter. And QB Aaron Rodgers had almost 400 yards passing despite no blind side protection. Up next week is the bye week, then two winable games against the Lions and Browns. Now they can focus on going 4-2 and see what the NFC North looks like at that point.
Packers vs Vikings coverage; Packers vs Vikings recap; Packers vs Vikings boxscore; Daily Norseman
My game recap from the play-by-play at NFL.com.
First Quarter:
(9:28) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at MIN 33 for -9 yards (sack split by 69-J.Allen and 96-B.Robison). FUMBLES (69-J.Allen), RECOVERED by MIN-52-C.Greenway at MIN 33. 52-C.Greenway to MIN 33 for no gain (72-J.Spitz). Green Bay challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1 at 09:22.)
They only lost the game by 7 points. So giving up a fumble on the Vikings 24 yard line was as good as giving up 3 points. It's hard to blame QB Aaron Rodgers for this fumble when both his tackles are beaten to the outside and the pocket collapsed.
(3:26) 4-B.Favre pass short left to 81-V.Shiancoe for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
A really good play by QB Brett Favre. He looked one way, and then went back to the other side of the field for the TD. Of course it's amazing what you can do when you have time to throw...
(2:27) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep middle to 88-J.Finley for 62 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
I think we've all been waiting to see something like this from TE Jermichael Finley. He uses his speed to get open and downfield, and his strength to fight into the end zone.
Second Quarter:
(11:47) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right intended for 85-G.Jennings INTERCEPTED by 26-A.Winfield at MIN 23. 26-A.Winfield to MIN 23 for no gain (85-G.Jennings).
Another turnover deep in Vikings territory that almost certainly took 3 points off the board for the Packers. But this was a great play by CB Antoine Winfield. He had a great game.
(7:20) (Shotgun) 4-B.Favre pass short left to 87-B.Berrian to GB 13 for 16 yards (29-D.Martin).
I can't remember: was this the play when Favre had about 6 seconds to throw as the Packers 3-man rush got nowhere near him? The Vikings entered the game as one of the worst pass blocking teams in the league, and the Packers got no sacks. They didn't even put much pressure on him. The pass rush is officially broken.
(3:30) 28-A.Peterson left end to MIN 42 for -2 yards. FUMBLES, RECOVERED by GB-52-C.Matthews at MIN 42. 52-C.Matthews for 42 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
The Packers defense turned RB Adrian Peterson into a below average back in this game. Great play by DE Cullen Jenkins, who led the push forward, and by LB Clay Matthews to grab the ball. I'm a big fan of Matthews, although I'm not of fan of his pass rush. I'd almost prefer they gave rookie LB Brad Jones a chance on 3rd downs to rush the passer, which was something he did pretty well during the preseason. Matthews should still play a lot, but he can take time away from LB Brady Poppinga. The only times I've noticed Poppinga this season is when he's losing back side contain on a cut-back run.
Third Quarter:
(10:45) 4-B.Favre pass deep left to 87-B.Berrian for 31 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
As mentioned above, the play that probably ended SS Derrick Martin's career as a starting safety.
(4:54) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 25-R.Grant to MIN 5 for 20 yards (25-T.Johnson).
I don't know what to make of RB Ryan Grant anymore. He seemed to miss some big cut-back opportunities for big gains, but he also had a solid game with 4.6 yards/carry and 4 receptions for 50 yards. I guess 2007 was a magic season for him, but he remains a solid NFL back.
(4:03) (Shotgun) 25-R.Grant right guard to MIN 1 for 4 yards (56-E.Henderson).
(3:34) 30-J.Kuhn left guard to MIN 1 for no gain (52-C.Greenway).
(3:04) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 88-J.Finley to MIN 1 for no gain (51-B.Leber) [91-R.Edwards].
(2:18) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 86-D.Lee.
Just a back-breaking series. 1st and goal at the Vikings 5 yard line, and they were stopped on three consecutive great plays by the Vikings defense. I can't remember watching a series of 4 plays that were all so close to a TD. Unfortunately the last one was a drop by TE Donald Lee. It would have made the game 21-28. In hindsight, Mike McCarthy should have gone for a field goal. But the defense was struggling so much up to that point, it felt like a shootout, and the Packers had to do something to make up the difference on the scoreboard.
Fourth Quarter:
(13:00) 5-C.Kluwe punts 43 yards to GB 15, Center-46-C.Loeffler, fair catch by 87-J.Nelson.
(9:00) 5-C.Kluwe punts 41 yards to GB 1, Center-46-C.Loeffler, downed by MIN-37-E.Frampton.
(5:08) 5-C.Kluwe punts 50 yards to GB 4, Center-46-C.Loeffler, out of bounds.
(3:20) 5-C.Kluwe punts 33 yards to GB 12, Center-46-C.Loeffler. 87-J.Nelson MUFFS catch, touched at GB 16, recovered by GB-30-J.Kuhn at GB 18. 30-J.Kuhn to GB 18 for no gain (Team).
The Packers defense forced the Vikings to punt the ball away 4 times in the 4th quarter. This should have been the time for the Vikings to run out the clock and ice the game, but they couldn't do it. I've been critical of the Packers run defense for the last 1+ seasons, but they shut down the best running back in the NFL when they had to and gave themselves a chance to get back into the game.
(7:25) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 1 for 0 yards (69-J.Allen). FUMBLES (69-J.Allen), RECOVERED by MIN-69-J.Allen at GB 1. 69-J.Allen to GB 2 for -1 yards. Green Bay challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked in End Zone for -1 yards, SAFETY (69-J.Allen).
This was a great defensive stand by the Vikings. On the play before, Winfield made a great open field tackle on Grant at the goal line. This was after Colledge was hurt, so Allen was able to work over rookie T.J. Lang. Rodgers doesn't hold the ball too long, he's doing the right thing by avoiding the rush and giving himself a second chance to make a play on the run before throwing it away. But given the current state of his pass protection, he's holding the ball too long.
(3:49) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 87-J.Nelson for 33 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
WR Jordy Nelson muffed a punt return shortly after this TD play, but this was a great run-and-catch. Whenever I see a play like this I wonder why he isn't more involved in the offense.
(1:54) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at MIN 23 for -5 yards (69-J.Allen).
Watching the ESPN highlights, the commentators were starting to downplay the sacks. It was like; yes, it's another sack by Allen, but it's only just the Packers...
(Onside Kick formation) 2-M.Crosby kicks onside 9 yards from GB 30 to GB 39. 18-S.Rice (didn't try to advance) to GB 39 for no gain (16-B.Swain).
Despite the troubles in the secondary, the pass rush, and the awful left tackle pass protection, they were one onside recovery away from giving Rodgers a chance to throw his own last second TD pass in the Metrodome. A great effort by the team to give themselves a chance in the 4th quarter.
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I actually thought Lang was better than Colledge...
… but maybe that was just wishful thinking.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 6, 2009 7:23 AM CDT reply actions
Pick your poison
Neither played at an acceptable level.
by ktenreb on Oct 6, 2009 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lang
Really looked pretty good. The 2 times Allen did get by him, he got through on the inside, and really wasn’t on Lang. He challenged Allen a few times, and was successful on a couple of those.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Love this quote:
From Paul Wiggin, a personnell consultant with the Vikings, as quoted by McGinn:
“It was two great quarterbacks,” said Wiggin. “One is 15 years younger.”
There was more to the quote, mostly talking about the Vikings pass rush and how the game went down, but those two sentences alone should tell us we’ve got the right QB on our roster.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 6, 2009 7:25 AM CDT reply actions
So can we fix the pass rush this season?
Or are we going to have to go into a St. Louis Rams mode and simply try to make every game a shootout?
big concern
Top three concerns:
- Tackle play
- Safety depth
- Lack of QB pressure
Where is the pressure we had during the Bears game…its like a different team!
Bigby
As soon as Bigby went down Capers stopped bringing pressure in the Bears game. He obviously doesn’t feel comfortable dialing up all those blitzes with Martin or Bush in there, and I understand that completely.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Dead on.
This defense has been passive ever since that injury. Based on what I saw out of Harris and Martin trying to provide over/under coverage, it’s pretty obvious why Capers is pulling his punches right now. We need to get healthy and take another look at this team before we pass judgment on the defense and the O-Line. We know that our young tackles are overmatched, but there’s some reason for hope of improvement if they sign Tauscher, get Clifton back in, and slide Spitz and Colledge back to the positions they should be playing.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 6, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Good Point
Once Bigby comes back, the two players the Pack can’t afford to lose on defense are Bigby and Collins. McCarthy even said that Collins is playing out of place right now with Bigby out. Once Bigby gets back, Collins will be playing the deep middle and not allowing that deep Favre TD pass. Bigby will be playing the poor man’s Polamalu and hopefully getting to the QB and the running backs in the flat. I wasn’t against letting Smith go at first, but since Rouse busted, the Pack can’t afford to lose either of them. And as you mentioned at the end, hopefully Tausch can work his way back in in time for the Vikings game and Spitz will be back at Center. That should help out a great deal.
Right
Clifton is still a good LT. I think Tauscher can be as well, and just heard that we are bringing him back (but it was on SBNation, can anyone verify this??). Getting Spitz back at C could help things.
Right, there was an obvious difference in our defense when Bigby went down. He really is a key to our defense and is underrated by many. He has improved in coverage, and we all know about his run stopping abilities. In the 3-4 the safties really are key to the defense and especially in Capers aggressive system. The SS is involved in many of the blitz packages, and when he is not, he and the FS have to hold down the middle of the field.
Capers has talked multiple times about how much he likes Bigby and how important Bigby is to his defense. At first I didn’t really understand why but after seeing our defense with him and then our defense without him I totally understand why. When Bigby comes back we will see a change in our defense. We will be bringing much more blitzes and probably cause more turnovers because of it.
Clifton should be back after the bye week. If they do bring Tauscher back he will certainly be better then Barbe, and the run blocking will be better with Spitz back at C.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
the packer website
said they brought him and and he practiced with the first string and stated he could be signed. The team doc last year when Tausch was hurt his timeline would be sometime in October. so it could be brighter skies coming with the OL
Practiced With First String?
The Packers didn’t practice today. They worked Tauscher out and now just have to come to a financial agreement but he didn’t practice with the team. It will take him a couple of weeks to get into the swing of things. I see him starting in time for Cleveland or Minnesota.
sorry my mistake
i misread it. After looking at it agin it said “First, the team worked out Mark Tauscher…” I was so happy about the news i thought it said first team worked out with Mark Tauscher
Rodgers not without fault
A-Rod had a very nice game and put up big yardage especially late. But his fumble and pick were very costly and avoidable. Though the pass protection was bad, he had some time on many of the sacks. Watch the replays of Jared Allen’s sacks and like 3 of them were on late pursuit. If the Packers were not playing from behind and pressing for big plays Rodgers might have avoided a lot of them with checkdowns and throw aways.
I felt like Rodgers tried to do a little too much but seeing as though the Vikings put up 30 points I guess he did have to do quite a bit for them to win. Packers have to improve to contend for the division. Plain and simple. They need to get better on D and running the ball.
exactly
Rodgers seemed at least 3 or 4 times to pump fake (when he should have thrown the ball, whether it was to an open receiver or thrown it away) so that he could take a sack the next second. I was wondering what in the hell it was he was looking at.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
He was looking at Ted
Did you see Ted’s expression when ESPN got him on camera. Absolutly Priceless
THOMPSON IS A MORON
I think it is a couple things with Rodgers
1) He is still a young QB and young QBs tend to take a lot of sacks.
2)I think getting the “internal clock” is a bit harder when it seems like the defense is in your face immediately
3)The Packers kept in a RB and TE to help block at times and the Vikings till got penetration while the Packers had less receivers in play.
4)The playcalling as mentioned below is pedestrian to the point where if he doesn’t try to make a play then I don’t see a whole lot of other options.
5)The drops. I think Rodgers is getting a little gun shy with a few of the players.
Basically I think Rodgers is going to have development problems if they don’t find a way to give him a breather from the hits. I think he played ok last night, but the team as a whole is putting him in a position where he has to light it up every game to keep us in it. There aren’t alot of 2nd year QBs who are going to be able to do that.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Oct 6, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
He's in his fifth year
Rodgers is in his fifth year. It’s his second as a starter, but his fifth in the league. This is the traditional model that nobody follows any more, where a quarterback is drafted to sit behind a veteran for a couple of years before being given his turn. It’s a great plan and benefits the young quarterback immensely. Unless when he gets his chance he keeps getting sacked in the endzone.
True
But the guy is still learning and this team is not good enough in other phases of the game to overcome his learning curve.
I know we are going to hear “We need to fix this” from McCarthy’s mouth but I don’t have a lot of faith that he knows how to get guys to correct their mistakes.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Oct 6, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Roethlisburger mentality
He kind of has that stand in the pocket and wait for something to open up mentality. A lot of times that works and a lot of times it doesn’t but a guy should try to limit it a bit. Okay, the line is bad. Call use some runs and check down passes then. Don’t just keep banging your head against the same wall.
The Guy
Has started 20 games behind a bad offensive line. Give him some time. His stats (even though they don’t mean everything) are better than Favres through 20 games and I was too young to remember, but I doubt the o-line in front of Favre gave up 20 sacks in a 4 game stretch. Rodgers has held on to the ball too long a few times but he also has ran away from sack after sack with his legs. If you add all the plays up where he has done a good job of dodging the sack where most other QB’s would have been sacked and add the plays up where he has gotten sacked cause he held it too long, and you flip those around, Rodgers probably has 25 sacks right now legitimately instead of the 20.
Well
They have tried runs, Grant has not been too terribly reliable.
Because TEs have to chip and help the o-line, the check downs haven’t always been there.
Sacks suck, but they suck less that Ints (Unless, of course, it’s a fumble sack). I’m not defending the sacks overall, but a sack is certainly the less poisonous of the different possibilities.
Now, the ideal solution is throwing the ball away. That is what Rodgers could use some work on.
Throwing the ball away is an option too
Brad Johnson bounced around the league for quite a few years as a starting quarterback. Nobody remembers him as a great quarterback, but if you look at his career he always had very high completion percentages, always well over 60 percent. A significant reason for this is that he refused to throw the ball away. For him, it was better to take a sack than to cause his QB rating to suffer with an incomplete pass, and there were many who believed that he did it on purpose. Of course, taking the sack hurts the team more than would an incomplete pass, but that in’t how Johnson saw it.
I’m not accusing Rodgers of trying to inflate his QB rating by refusing to throw the ball away. Instead, I am saying instead that a QB rating is not the be-all and end-all for QBs. The formula rewards pass completions and yardage, and penalizes incompletions (but not sacks). Thus, a QB with a large lead in a game will generally not throw the ball as much, and will not accumulate formula-enhancing yardage, because that’s not the way the game is played. A quarterback who is losing big, on the other hand, will be winging the ball, generally against a softer zone to prevent defense, and rack up yards that inflate the rating but that do NOT reflect a winner.
This long, wandering post is merely intended to suggest that Rodgers HAS to learn to throw the ball away when the pressure gets too much (and again, lest I be called a troll, I do NOT suggest that he purposely takes sacks to improve his own personal stats). The consequence will be that his QB rating will drop some.
In my opinion, Johnson is the outlier
I’m of the believe that Rodgers believes in his receivers too much and that they will eventually get open, and he’s waiting for that chance. And, if he had blocking like Favre had, he probably would be correct. But one of these days, as suggested by others, he’s got to start playing like he has a bottom third of the league O-Line and not a top third.
" Call use some runs and check down passes then. Don’t just keep banging your head against the same wall."
Runs is what we should have done but once play gets out of the 1st quarter MM forgets what a run play is. And we couldn’t really check down because we left Grant and a TE back to block many times. A lot of him holding onto the ball is waiting for routes to develop, but I do recognize that he does hold on too it a tad to long.
And the thing is he really isn’t even holding onto the ball that long sometimes. It just appears that he is because our oline is so bad. He usually only has 2-3 seconds to pass, when you should get 5 seconds. So when he actually does have a pocket to sit in for 3-4 seconds and ends up getting sacked it seems like he had more time then he really did.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
a-rod is a baseball player
THOMPSON IS A MORON
by 4 where-ever on Oct 6, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
actually
a-rod is also aaron rodgers, QB for the green bay packers.
by PackaCracka on Oct 6, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
correct
On that safety there is NO excuse for him not throwing the ball when he pump faked it. You don’t pump fake in the endzone when you’ve been flushed out like that. TOTALLY inexcusable! I think its partially because most of his checkdowns are stuck in blocking so he has to keep waiting for a WR to open up instead of hitting a checkdown.
agreed
but if the wr’s aren’t open he has to throw it out of bounds near a wr. this is an absolute must
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Someone on that coaching staff has to coach him.
Rodgers seems like the type of guy who will take direction, so it seems baffling that they haven’t made that adjustment.
Then again, what adjustments have they been able to make to their weaknesses?
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Oct 6, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
this is new...
He wasn’t like that last year though. We weren’t talking about him holding the ball for too long. Last year the quick slants were used a lot more too but I think D’s are taking that away as well so now he doesn’t have his quick slants and he has no check downs. If he starts throwing them all away then people will complain about him panicking. I am sure they’ll work with him on that some more but honestly, this line is arguably the worst in the league and yet Rodgers is still putting up SICK numbers. I know we aren’t used to a QB holding onto a ball too long, but he’s also not throwing INTs. Sure he had one this yesterday, but attribute that to an amazing read by Winfield. Considering everything going on around him, Rodgers is playing AMAZINGLY. He had made his mistakes but I don’t fault him for this mess.
It's all on the o-line
I don’t know why people question Rodgers holding on to the ball too long or McCarthy’s QB coaching when none of it would be an issue if the o-line could just adequately protect. I don’t agree with some of McCarthy’s play calling but if the o-line did its job, I don’t know if anyone would be complaining about his play calling. They ruin every aspect of the offense.
Favre had one of his best seasons ever in 07’ because he and McCarthy joined forces. Now Rodgers would be lighting the world on fire if he just had 3.5 seconds to throw the ball every once in a while. This was all a result of McCarthy being a great QB coach. Maybe he’s just a better QB coach than anything else. In regards to Rodgers holding the ball too long; David Carr looked like an undeniable star but the Texans o-line was as bad as the Packs for a few years and he got gun shy. No protection makes young QB’s like Rodgers hold the ball too long even though they should be getting rid of it. I can’t blame that on Rodgers.
I agree to a point
but Rodgers is aware that the O line is struggling and some of those sacks happened after Rodgers had time to go through some progressions and then took the sack. Rodgers is not solely to blame for the sacks because he is holding the ball too long but it is a contributing factor. Big Ben has had a similar issue in the past. His O line was substandard, true. But they were taking a lot of heat in the press for being poor when Ben had the chance to throw the ball away and avoid the sack and instead tried to make a play and went down. Now the difference between the two as I see it is that when Ben takes that sack for holding the ball for too long he is scrambling and looking downfield. Rodgers seems to take the sack while still in the pocket, and usually after a pump fake that should have been the throw.
Your point is correct but I think that Rodgers does shoulder at least some of the blame
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
I Agree
Rodgers, the running backs, fullbacks, tight ends, and the offensive line are all partly responsible. I’ve just heard several people on here, the radio, and other sites blame a lot of the sacks on Rodgers but the guy is getting hit constantly regardless. He would have a few less sacks this season if he threw the ball away more but he’s still been sacked 20 fricken times in 4 games. It’s amazing especially considering he’s run away from another 2-3 sacks a game that most QB’s would’ve went down.
agreed
I think Rodgers has done excellent considering the situation he’s been put in.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
He can't take the safeties
He has to get rid of the ball when he’s in the end zone. He has to know when the pressure is coming and get rid of it. No other quarterback has been sacked in the end zone 5 times in the past season and a quarter.
couldn't agree more
that is a shocking stat
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
It is an interesting mix.
I think we are seeing someone who has a lot of technical experience (understands the offense, knows the receivers, knows the plays), having to catch up in practical experience (having Jared Allen chasing you down constantly). As much as you can practice the plays, there isn’t any way to practice running for your life for an entire game.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Oct 6, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Good game guys.
If you can figure out your o-line issues Aaron Rodgers is going to have a helluva career.
and:
-our pass rush
-our mid-field pass defense
-penalty avoidance
-communication between Al Harris and the FS’s
-consistent run blocking
- pathetic ignorant play offensive calling, especially on 1st and 2nd down!
*but other than that this Packers team is just flying high.
Green and Gold / Black, and White
by OznCoop on Oct 6, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
"pathetic ignorant play offensive calling, especially on 1st and 2nd down!"
I swear, this is the train of thought:
“Hey, the screen worked great in the first half. Guess we better stop running screens because I’m sure it won’t work again”
by Danwood on Oct 6, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
or 2 straight runs up the gut at the 1 yard line against the best run D in the NFL
Green and Gold / Black, and White
should have been three
instead of throwing it to the flat on a 1 yard curl when you need 2?
grant had 4.6 YPC and we’ve been able to bust open the middle all game. Kuhn got stuffed once but so what, this is Packer football.
Pound it in, McCarthy! Football Tough MY ASS!
Deshawn Wynn
How does he still have a job??? Ohhhhhh, I miss Tyrell Sutton. I don’t care if it was Preseason, at least he had moments where he shined!
Or maybe the receiver could have just
held on to the ball on 4th down, and none of what happened before that matters.
Biggest plays
Finley’s TD and Matthew’s strip and TD were HUGE plays from some of our young upcoming talent. IT was Finley’s coming out party…if we can get this line fixed he could become a top TE in this league. Defensively, outside of Martin, they played a pretty good game. They were all over AP and while Favre had a really nice game, they still held the yardage under 300 which is nice. They tightened up in the 4th quarter. The pressure was piss poor though…no sacks is unexcused.
Holding Favre under 300 yards does not constitute a "pretty good game"
He had 270 because that’s how many they needed to win. If they had needed 300, Favre would have gotten 300. He had his way with the defense all night long. After the Vikings got up by 16, they stopped throwing and tried to milk the clock, resulting in no needless additional passing yards.
Agreed
If the Vikings wanted to, they could have thrown the ball all game. I didn’t see anythign fromt the Defense that convinces me otherwise.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Oct 6, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
You weren't noticing the white jerseys...
being stretched out? I thought it was easy to see it. The Vikings o-line were holding every chasnce they had. With the refs not calling holding on Vikings, they were able to hold on to the Packers all night long.
Packers should have done it too!
There weren’t too may offensive line holding calls on the Packers…might have saved Aaron a few hits. :)
You got to figure out some way to get to the QB. The Packers managed the difficult combo of no pass rush and also blowing coverages.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Oct 6, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Most Definitely
I think the Vikings had control of the game anyway, but the holding was ridiculous. Almost every pass play I would say, look at Jenkins/Raji’s/Kampmans shirt getting pulled. Even on special teams, I saw three easy-to-call holds against the Vikings and not one was called.
Rodgers Grade: B
The two turnovers in the red zone killed the Packers last night, because both turnovers lead to touchdowns. While Green Bay’s left tackle spot is killing them right now, Rodgers has to get rid of the ball quicker if he wants to succede. Now he’s still young and still hasn’t started that many games, so there is time for Rodgers to improve.
FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!
huh?
I don’t recall two turnovers in the red zone. The interception happened at the MN 23, though we were at the 33, not in our red zone (or theirs)…but they did get a TD on that turnover. The fumble happened at the MN 24. I get the point but neither was a red zone turnover really.
What I DO recall is that WE were 0-2 in the red zone, and that doesn’t include EITHER turnover. Yeah two trips in and no points out of it.
ouch !
we got torched by the old man …
Overall, I think the defense did pretty good, ok, they didn’t create much pressure, and the few times they did, Favre got rid of the ball quickly. BUT they held A.P to 55 yds on 25 carries (2,2 avg) and that’s a pretty darn good job. But they made som key mental errors in coverage, and needless to say, Favre made them pay big time for that.
Clay Matthews kept the game alive with his forced fumlbe and recovery TD, if not for that TD, the game could have gotten real ugly. The game was not nearly as close as the score indicated, the Vikings trottled back and milked the clock in the end (like one normaly does…) Favre could easily have sliced and diced if he wanted.
Our offense … where do I begin ??
Who here said Colledge would do well against Jarred Allen ??? he had his way with him and then some! I think T.J Lang did a lot better than Colledge, however that doesn’t say much.
Our O-line in general did not hold up in pass blocking !
Our playcalling also stinks, when protection is this bad, you can’t dial up deep passes, you need to go play action, screens and short hitches, and when they did, they were sucessfull, so why is MM still calling plays ?? The other thing to do, is to help out Colledge, shift the whole line right and have a FB (we have enough..) cut block the crap out of Allen every play, there’s nothing a D-end hates more than to be cut, that is guaranteed to slow him down.
Rodgers… well, what’s to say, his stats are really good, he has the arm to make any throw in the book … but over all as a QB he didn’t play a good game, he still holds the ball way to long, he needs to get that clock in his head working, he also need to use his hot reads, he is so often reminded during the game how horrible his protection is, so it can’t be a surprise. He has now taken 133% of the sacks that Favre took in 2007, and 67% of the sacks he took last year, in four games…. I guess he’s happy about a bye-week now …
The first sack and fumble, well the protection was gone, but he can either throw the ball away or at least hold on to it. 2nd sack he had pressure coming, but Jennings was open before that. the 5th sack is all on Rodgers, he had plenty of time. 6th sack, RUN !! + he has a TE open. 7th, he needs to know where he is on the field, and again, he has time to get rid of the ball…
Sometimes Rodgers still has that Deer-in-the-headlight look in the pocket, he needs to use his strenghts and get out. Favre on the other side is cool as ice in the pocket.
the interception is not all on Rodgers, it’s a great play by Winfield, and not a very good route by Jennings.
Rodgers is a good QB … but Favre is still better…..
Other missques … McCarthys two challenges … a 15 yds unc penalty by Chillar.
The DPI call on Woodson was ticky-tack, but it didn’t matter, we had a offside anyway and would have lost the ball on that one, but then again, we got lucky with the refs as well, they missed at least one obvious facemask by Havner on kick coverage, an illegal use of hands by Barbre and holding by Barbre …
ugh
I hate people sitting in their chairs questioning play calling the next day. First, these guys pick plays on the fly. They run the plays they think will be successful. Sometimes they are, sometimes not.
You can’t run play action when the run isn’t established. Play action is a BAD call in this situation. We had 11 carries for Grant the entire game, many of them were draws. Play action would have only slowed down Rodgers drop and forced him to take his eyes off the receivers for a few seconds. He would have been hit even more then. Play action also eliminates the quick pass. Screens work sometimes but you need talented backs that can catch the screen and blockers who are athletic enough to get out there and stop the backers from blowing it up…I don’t know that we have either! Teams know we are a quick slant offense and are scheming against it. Honestly, playcalling is WAY down the line as far as problems in this game goes. Lets worry about that AFTER we get about 4 other things fixed up! We did get over 400 yards of offense and no it wasn’t all at the end in prevent mode. The O was pretty decent at times in the first half. We had TWO really good drives ended by turnovers.
I also love people who sitting on their couch watching replays will see a receiver open for a while and then rip on a QB who has 5 guys charging at him for not seeing him. Just cause a guy manages to get open at some point doesn’t mean he is going to be open when he is in Rodgers sight. He can’t see the entire field at all times. Plus he has to be able to make the throw otherwise it could get picked which is worse.
Favre would NOT have done better if you threw him back on the packers. Favre looked amazing yesterday. Crisp. Accruate. Everything you want in a QB. We had NO pressure on him though. We sold out so much on stopping AP (which we did amazingly) that we basically challenged Favre to beat us and he did. You would be mistaken to think he would have looked that good playing for the packers.
The first challenge by McCarthy was terrible…total waste. The second was GENIUS! Take the safety rather than giving them the ball on the one. He gave them TWO points to save SEVEN. Plus there was always the chance they call Rodgers down on the 1 and then we can punt. That was one of the best challenges of the year in my book. By the way, the Vikings went three and out after the safety. The UNC by Chillar was stupid. Not sure what he was saying but there was a ref touching him on the shoulder while he did it…STUPID move by Chillar.
You are right on the INT…Jennings was NOT crisp and was not where he was supposed to be…Winfield simply read it and made one hell of a pick.
Rodger DOES hold the ball too long at times…but again I’ve said this before. Many of these plays he has NO check down cause everyone is blocking. Maybe we need to stop all deep routes and run only ten yard patterns, but then we aren’t stretching the field and honestly some of our best plays have been deep balls.
by TrevorR on Oct 6, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Can we sit in our chairs and compliment the playcalling?
Because I thought it was pretty good. The first challenge was dumb, but that happens when a coach listens to his players too much when they come off the sidelines. The problem offensively was failure to execute far more than it was play selection in my opinion.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 6, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
hate me if you will ...
But I still think McCarthys playcalling stinks. I know it’s hard to call plays in the NFL, and they have to do it on a fly, and of course, the execution could be a lot better. but any HC and playcaller should after a game, analyze their play calling to see what worked and what did not. MCCarthy seems to make the same misstakes game after game. Both the 49’ers and Saints got a lot better after he left, so I can’t wait for McCarthy to get fired, so the Packers can get back to being great. The main reason for McCarthy looking good with playcalling his first two years, is now wearing purple (and he picked a part our defens monday) And yes, the playaction might work even without an established running game, if you can “freeze” the d-line and LBs for an instant so that Rodgers can get out of the pocket where he’s been a lot more effective.
I do think Favre would have done better than Rodgers (for the Packers) in this game, simply because there’s one thing Favre has always done better than anyone else, ever ! he created something out of nothing, a broken play, wether it was protection or bad routs, more often than not, Favre would make a great play out of it. Even though Rodgers is much younger and faster, Favre is still better at buying time when he needs it, Rodgers does it some with his feet (but he mostly takes of or gets buried) Favre buyes the time with his feet, eyes, pumpfake, whatever it takes. he’s also a lot better at looking of the defenders, moveing the safetyes with his eyes and creating room for other recievers. Yes, sometimes that requires more than 2,5 seconds in the pocket. But several times, like on his 5th or 6th sack, Rodgers had 6+ seconds to throw, but he didn’t. You can also go back and look at the pre-snap reads, and other factors that separates a great QB from the good ones, anticipation! most of the time you can’t wait for your guy to get open, you need to anticipate what’s going to happen. And of course, Favre has that clock in his head, and senses the pressure.
Rodgers is still young, and needs experience, if he can survive with the lack of protection.
Don’t get me wrong (again!!) I’m not a Rodgers hater, I’m just pissed of at TT and MM for cheating the fans out of a serious SuperBowl run with Favre. In 2007 nobody figured the Packers for a contender, in 2008, with Favre, it would have made sense to pick up power RB by either trade or FA and make a serious run at it.
I'm thinking more and more that the 2007 season was a fluke
and between 2006 and now, this has been about an 8 win team. But hey, maybe Favre could’ve helped last year. Maybe he’s a fantastic DE and we’ve just never known.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 7, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
unfortunately yes.
Kinda like that 2001 Bears team under Jauron. I think that season’s record kept Jauron around for a while, but they didn’t get better until Angelo came in.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Oct 7, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
2007 had a lot to do with scheduling
Green Bay got most of the good teams before they were good (Giants, Chargers), played in an otherwise down year for the NFC North (Despite losing twice to the Bears), and ended up on the right side of some close games (Denver, Washington, Philly).
Had they faced Philly, NYG, and SD at the end of the season instead of the beginning they very well could’ve ended up 10-6.
well we were certainly fortunate that year
We lucked out with the Eagles game in the opener, the Redskins game was won by defense, the great game in Denver, even the Chiefs game after that was close. I’m not trying to diminish the accomplishments of that season by any means. We were a very good team that year, but we did catch all of the breaks that year that we missed in 2005.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
That would be me...
Who here said Colledge would do well against Jarred Allen ??? he had his way with him and then some! I think T.J Lang did a lot better than Colledge,
Colledge has the physical tools to hold up against Allen. Colledge is 30-40 pounds heavier, and has similar speed. Physically, its probably a push. Since he didn’t have a lot of NFL experience at LT, you can only extrapolate future performance from existing data. So, before the game, I thought they would be a decent matchup. Obviously, Allen dominated Colledge. It wasn’t even interesting to analyze, because Colledge was making so many mistakes.
If a player is physically able to do something but fails anyway, the problem originates inside the helmet. In Colledge’s case, he just couldn’t match Allen’s toughness and intensity. That’s my guess, anyway. It doesn’t really matter. Either you can do it, or not. If it was just a few plays, then I would say that Colledge just lost focus momentarily; coaching could fix that. But it wasn’t just a few plays. Colledge was overwhelmed from the moment he ran out of the tunnel. I don’t think that is a coachable problem.
During the game, I started wondering if Colledge was a “coach killer.” That’s a player that looks great in practice, grades out well for all the necessary skills at the position, and does everything the coach asks, but just can’t get it done in games. As a coach, you put your confidence in that player because they are following your system just the way you designed it. When they fail spectacularly in a game, however, they cause that system to be called into question. The one player’s failure becomes an anchor that drags your whole program down.
I would never put Daryn Colledge at LT again, even as a last resort. I am starting to wonder if he even has the mindset to play offensive line in the NFL right now. His position coach, James Campen, needs to get into his head and figure out what is going on there.
I agree!
I think they need to put everyone back at their natural position. I hate that losing one player made us have to get weaker at THREE positions. That is a TERRIBLE system. Not sure who’s idea that was but it MUST stop. They need to bring in at least 2 new tackles on this team. I don’t care if they are free agents and obviously not that great. Clearly you can’t get worse than what we have now!!
You give him too much credit
Colledge has never been a tease, he’s always been mediocre. He was a second round draft pick. At first, the excuse was that he wasn’t strong enough"yet" but would “hit the weights” and build the strength. Then, he has a spell of not knowing his assignments. I see mediocre footwork, little drive, a “high” anchor, and yes, something of a head case. I think that he may be the best LG on the roster, but he is not of starting caliber in the NFL.
lang was actually holding allen back
while colledge was trying to get Allen to run downfield
Or if Peterson's "troublesome" back gives out. Because he's, you know, carrying the team. And some of those guys are heavy.
Mitchell M
He might be a coach killer
The coaches sure keep showing faith in him, and he keeps struggling. They did manage to bench him during the 2007 season; the game in Kansas City that season was particularly bad as he got overpowered by no-name defensive tackles. He returned as a starter last season, and gave up a lot of sacks, but some of that could have been blamed on the injuries to Clifton. There’s no excuses left now, and it’s been three seasons of struggles. He’s listed at 308 lbs., so in reality he’s probably closer to 300 lbs., which is light for an NFL o-lineman. He needs to play with perfect technique to stand up against the bull rush, but d-lineman continually get into him, so the coaching hasn’t seemed to take. He’s been given a fair chance, but I think he’s run his course.
As for Lang...
he’s a young rookie thrown into a very high pressure situation, and he responded well. He wasn’t intimidated by Allen. He matched up well physically, even overpowering Allen once. He showed the attitude that good offensive linemen should have, especially ones that defend their QB’s blind side.
Lang got beat by Allen because of the experience and skill differential between rookie and veteran. That should be expected. It’s a good thing, because experience and skill can be acquired. The necessary attitude to punch Jared Allen in the facemask because he dares to touch your QB… that has to come from within. I’m encouraged with Lang. He’s a player to watch.
He responded well?
2 sacks in little over 15 minutes of play? I don’t consider that responding well, not at all. He had help every single passing play with at least one running back chipping (or staying in), or with the TE doing the same. I’m not going to be overly hard on him because he shouldn’t have been put into that position. To me, he looks like a guard.
Lang did not have help every single pass play.
That’s just not true. He got help on his first two, then it seemed to fall back to the same amount as Colledge got. I saw him handle Allen solo several times, and he looked significantly better than Colledge did.
On one of the sacks, the running back was supposed to chip Allen to the outside, but failed. Lang was positioned correctly and was looking to block a linebacker, and Allen ran right by him. That’s a classic rookie mistake, locking on the primary assignment and not seeing the whole picture.
For the second sack, Lang lost a one on one battle with Allen. I don’t see any shame in that, because a rookie 3rd stringer should lose individual battles with starting veterans at least some of the time.
He looks like a guard to me also, but that’s only because of his arm length (32.75 in). However, that’s not an immediate disqualifier to playing tackle. Chad Clifton has 33 in arms, which is one of the shortest among starting LTs in the NFL. You can be successful with short arms, but you have to make up for it with strong technique and concentration. I doubt Lang will play tackle, but players of his size have done it before.
I like what Lang did
He obviously was outmatched but I watched the tape back and he was more of a man than Colledge was. He went after Allen. No wonder the Packers like this kid. Hopefully he’s there Steve Hutchinson of the future. If Lang and Sitton both develop we could only hope for a Rivera/Wahle combination. I’m actually excited about his performance.
I guess we were watching different games
Every time that Rogers lined up in the shotgun the running back was on the left side, or moved to the left side before the snap. I watched Lange (and Colledge before him), and that’s what I saw. McCarthy, by the way, would have been a fool NOT to give Lange as much help as possible.
I agree with that but
Lang has been playing guard since coming to Green Bay and he went against the best pass rushing DE in the NFC at LT. Did he look good? No. But he looked like a man. Colledge played scared and looked bad, at least Lang played tough and looked bad. I’m not talking about Lang being a future Pro Bowl LT, I’m talking about him having potential to go back inside at LG and be a good player there. I liked the way he played. Sitton, Spitz (at center), and Lang actually look like men out there. They’re the only 3 guys I see on the Packers that can drive d-lineman back.
But
He really didn’t look that bad. He let Allen sack Rodgers in the endzone but Grant had outside responsibilities on Allen and of course he wiffed on him. On the his other sack Allen stunted and went in between the G and C. Lang challenged him and had some success doing it. The guy was playing in his first game against the best DE in the league. He showed great potential and I’m actually excited about one of our olineman for once.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes yes
But a lot of the time Wynn or Grant was lined up on the right of Rodgers, with Lee lined up behind the RG.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Good Lord, I really need to boycott ESPN.
They are sucking up to The Traitor so much that it is almost sickening.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 6, 2009 12:36 PM CDT reply actions
Regardless of Favre, you should never watch ESPN
Unless you really like hearing thirty minute reports on a comment TO made or what Tony Romo is doing.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 6, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I know.
Makes me wonder why I watch them to begin with. Makes me wish things could be like they used to, with the Packers being the local NFL team.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 6, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, It's Sickening
I wonder if more women watch ESPN now than men. There is so much drama on that show, it’s like a sports soap opera. I use to watch it all them time and now I only catch Sportscenter at night to see the highlights.
Sportscenter?
Bah. I watch PTI, it’s the exact same topics and is mildly entertaining. Used to watch Around the Horn too, but since it’s pretty much the exact same things they talk about on PTI, it’s become pretty blah.
Aaron Rodgers played amazing considering the situation he was in. I can’t think of any QB in history that can light up a defense with no running game, poor defense, and the worst Offensive Line in the NFL. When Favre was here, he at least had Pro Bowl offensive linemen. Come on McCarthy….GAMES ARE WON IN THE TRENCHES!!!!!! This zone blocking scheme is still a complete failure. Does anyone else see us turning into the Lions? Bad defense, terrible OL, nothing but skill players? That what the Lions were for the longest time!
Colts fan here
I watched the game last night and I thought the lack of pass ruh and pass protection led to your defeat (yeah i know im being captain obvious here). I was impressed with Rodgers though and how well he played with the lack of protection he received. A few key passes dropped and the complextion of the game would have changed. BTW I hope Matt Giordano works out for you guys (though from the sound of things, the safety position is not looking good either). I know what you guys are going through since last year, the Colts suffered a slew of injuries, but so long as you have Rodgers, you’ll always have a chance to win. That was evident yesterday
Packers need to kill the blocking scheme up front. Period. Won’t happen during midseason, but this is insane. I honestly think the Vikings were actually picking up speed toward Rodgers when they made content with our offensive linemen. It was as if the sole purpose of our guards and tackles was to funnel defenders to Rodgers as quickly as possible.
There needs to be some serious scheming to slow down defenders – rejuvenate the screen plays (especially TE screens), get some quick double moves back in the plan to free up the inside slants again.
Long term, someone needs to be held accountable for the offensive line scheme and personnel, the poor roster decisions, and the lack of adequate adjustments made in-game. If they can’t pull it together up front, this is going to be a long season. And if McCarthy and Thompson think they can continue down the road to turning Rodgers into the second coming of Jake Delhomme, they’ve got another thing coming.
Rodgers as the second coming of Delhomme?!?!
Perish the thought! Living in Charlotte I can’t think of a worse situation.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
“continue down the road to turning Rodgers into the second coming of Jake Delhomme”
Put more plainly: The kind of abuse Rodgers is suffering so far this season, if left unchanged, will break him, as it would any other QB. As in serious lasting damage to his game. See: Delhomme, Jake.
The second coming of Jake Delhomme?
Please tell me you don’t mean turning the ball over every chance he gets. Part of the reason Carolina is winless this year is due to Delhomme’s lackluster play.
Go Badgers ... beat Ohio State!!!!!!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 6, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I've never been a fan of zone blocking
To me, it’s just a gimmick offense, like the run and shoot or the “wildcat.” To me, it appears to be an attempt to get by with linemen who have mediocre talent. It eschews (nice word for a former O-lineman, eh?) power and drive blocking, focusing instead on “zones” assigned to the different linemen and trying to create movement and cut blocks that put defensive players on the ground and cause pile-ups. The problem with it is it can get blown up far too easily; a solid bull rush can allow a defensive player to shoot gaps and get into the backfield, leaving the RB with little opportunity to maneuver. But it’s a run blocking scheme, not really a pass blocking scheme. The zone blocking scheme didn’t get Rodgers sacked 8 te
You are right, though, in that it is not possible to change during the middle of the season(although I saw less than 100 percent zone blocking against the Vikings).
Jake Delhomme?! WTF is that about?
I know it's still early, but I really wish they stuck with the 4-3
It pains me to see them waste Kampman as an OLB. He went from being one of the team’s best players to worthless with this transition. Plus, now that we have Raji, I really wanna see a front four of Jenkins, Pickett, Raji, and Kampman. If Raji can play like Kevin Williams that line is better than Minnesota’s.
I like the 3-4 but
I agree wholeheartedly about Kampman. I wish he could have at least some times when he put his hand on the ground and just rush the passer. I just feel like we are wasting his talents. And I really like Kampman and want the best for him.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
that would be nice
I thought they planned on still using some of the 4-3 maybe that would be a good move in some situations where we need to get that extra passrush that we clearly aren’t getting now.
Agreed
This team has a few guys that fit the 3-4 perfectly (Chillar especially) and a few guys that fit the 4-3 perfectly (Kampman especially) so I don’t know how they aren’t hybriding this. They played the run great yesterday but they couldn’t get to Brett what so ever. Why not put Kampman and Jenkins with their hands down outside of the tackles and Raji and Pickett in the middle? I had a lot of faith in Capers and I still think there is a 50-50 chance they turn it around this season but right now Nolan and Williams are out-coaching him.
Tauscher Could Be Back
The Packers worked out Tauscher today. McCarthy said that Dr. McKenzie had said Oct. 1 was the target date for Tauscher so I’m guessing that’s why they waited for their bye to work him out. My God, if Tausch is ready to contribute in a couple of weeks and Clifton comes back healthy, maybe the offensive line becomes an average unit. An average o-line = a really good Packer team IMO.
Don't count on Tauscher
He was a terrific player and a class guy, and he may even be an upgrade from Barbre. But I wouldn’t count on him playing, or playing effectively.
I hear you
My entire faith in this season lies in a noticeable improvement in the o-line though and I think that there is a possiblity of that happening with Clifton coming back and Tauscher being even the slightest upgrade over Barbre. People forget that Tauscher was better than Clifton the last couple of seasons. Tauschers never gotten by on athleticism but on technique (you know exactly what I’m talking about being a former lineman) so I think that really stands to help his chances of coming back. If they sign him and he has the bye week and then two weeks of practice with Barbre starting both the Lions and Browns games, I wonder if he could be effective in time for the Vikings game in four weeks. My hopes of an offensive line turnaround count on it. Otherwise I see no hope.
gotta be better
Clifton, Lang (not even sure what Lang’s preferred position is, but Colledge sucks), Spitz, Sitton, Tausch?
good size line, correct?
has to be better then the cr*p on the field now.
Get to 4-2, finish 10-6 maybe. 5 wins are doable for sure (Bucs, Boys, Lions, Hawks, Cards) and maybe steal one from viqueens or bears.
not great, but better than 6-10 of last year.
Yup
Can’t be any worse, really. Lang’s best position sounds like LG at this point and that’s where they’ve had him since he got drafted. I’ve never liked Colledge (too soft for my taste especially in the cold weather NFC North) and he has a knee injury so even though I don’t want to see anyone hurt, I hope he is out for the Lions game (though that’s unlikely) and Lang plays LG and plays great.
The only position I see Colledge being successful at is RT. He’s not good enough to be a LT and he’s too soft to be a guard. He won’t be any better than adequate anywhere except possibly RT. I think Clifton, Lang, Spitz, Sitton, Tauscher could be an average o-line and Clifton, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Barbre are obviously terrible. I would say just adding Lang and Tauscher could be a huge improvement.
Call me crazy but I could see the Packers legitimately going 10-2 the last 12 games if they had a solid o-line but 7-5 in the last 12 if it stays the same. I really think the o-line has been such a huge problem that if it gets fixed, the Pack could roll. I think they will beat the Bears in Chicago if the o-line is fixed by then. If the Packers o-line was solid against Chicago in the first game they would’ve won huge. I know that’s a lot of what if’s but it is what it is. Fix the o-line and the Pack are favorites.
From what I've gathered
From scouts and the coaches comments, Lang would be best suited as a LG. I would love to see him him in there starting with Clifton at LT, Spitz at C, Sitton at RG, and Tauscher at RG.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
The season is still young
I really enjoy this site. So much optimism. And I agree.
I wish they had left Colledge at guard and played Lang all night with help. I liked his attitude as others have said.
I too think we can be 10-6 if we get Clifton, Tauscher, and Bigby back.
Go pack.
by 50 years and Counting on Oct 6, 2009 8:37 PM CDT reply actions
Vikings - 2 penalties - what!
I think I know why Farve was so comfy back there last night – the NFL said make certain he’s got ime to throw and DON’T CALL ANY HOLDING PENALTIES! I saw the Vikes RT tackle holding one guys face mask AND he had a second guy by the back of his shoulder pads – no call though.
Yep saw that also
It was Raji who he was holding, and he did it a lot. Raji got by Loadholt at will but then had the RG to deal with as well. Raji showed some great potential last night.
by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Comments on Monday's Game
1. The Vikings have a weakness at their safety position. The athleticism of Jermichael Finley exposed Madieu Williams and to a certain extent Tyrell Johnson much the same way Vernon Davis did in week 3. It looks like the place to attack the MN defense is 15 – 20 yards downfield in the middle, or with well designed middle screens.
2. Aaron Rodgers is a good QB, and will be a great QB once he learns to deliver the ball on time, or throw it away. He may have a Rothlisberger mentality, but he isn’t as tough. He has the propensity for fumbling when hit hard. Several of the sacks Monday were on him for holding the ball too long. The safety was completely on him.
3. The offensive line is in complete disarray. It’s hard to believe the Pack is only one unhealthy guy away from being solid up front.
4. Clay Matthews is a beast. So is Jared Allen.
5. There is no excuse for AD allowing the ball to be stripped by Matthews. That should not happen to a big time player. Adrian needs to learn how to hang on to the ball better. It’s probably the only thing he needs improvement on.
6. MM is not a great coach. In fact he is not even a good coach. I know you all believe that he has drafted fantastic talent. But the offensive line has been neglected in his drafts. The D-Line isn’t much better. And the decision to go to a 3-4 defense doesn’t match the talent or personnel the Packers have. Allowing a QB, any QB, 7.3 seconds to throw a ball while Kampman and Jolly are running in circles taking themselves out of the play was embarrassing to watch. The goal line play calling was horrible both when the Pack was at their own 1 yard line and at the Vikings 1 yard line. Also, the lack of blitz packages was a mystery. I think if you put Kampman back on the line every once in a while the Packers defense would be better.
7. Al Harris may have expected help over the top on Berrian’s TD, but he didn’t do his job either. He failed to get a piece of Berrian coming off the line. Then he bit on the pump fake. The Vikings didn’t flood his zone. Harris had one guy to hand off and he failed to do it as much as the safety failed to arrive on time. Throwing a tantrum on the field showed how fragmented the Packer defense is right now. It also reflected poorly on Al.
8. TT looks like he belongs in a wax museum.
9. Raji may turn out to be a great player, but he isn’t right now. 2 tackles in a game that the Packers sold out to stop the run? And I cannot remember him hurrying Favre once.
10. IMHO, TT should not have allowed Favre to leave Green Bay.
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- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
