Brief Recap: Vikings defeat Green Bay Packers 38-26
by Brandon on Nov 1, 2009 6:41 PM CST
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintQB Brett Favre sure was pumped up beating his old team. I lost whatever respect I had left for him after that one. He wasn't supposed to throw the game, but for all his talk about being "it's just another game", it sure looked like payback time. I'm a Packer fan first, although you can find me defending him up-and-down if you feel like combing through this site's archives. Hopefully karma kicks him hard some day.
As to the rest of the game. It sure would have been great if the offense had shown up in the 1st half. Or the special teams unit had shown up at all. And it sure would be nice if LT T.J. Lang and RT Allen Barbre could be benched in favor of LT Chad Clifton and RT Mark Tauscher as soon as next game. Or they could rush the passer, or play better defense in the red zone.
But it's easy to find fault in a 12 point home loss, so let's end with the positive. The team played hard, physical, and rallied when they fell down 24-3. The receivers and backs worked hard for extra yards. QB Aaron Rodgers kept getting back up whenever his offensive tackles let a defensive lineman come in unblocked. The defense played very physical and made some big hits. The pass defense had only allowed 9 TD passes in the first 6 games, so the 4 TDs allowed today were more fluke then trend.
It's hard not to be emotional, but they'll lick their wounds and move onto next week. What stood out for you in this game?
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So is Matthews.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
...and Sydnee Rice
Silly Packers, Thinking you could beat the Vikings. Just so silly
"You thought you could beat my team, but yours decided to go have ice cream. Bow to my awesomeness" Brad Childress
Here's evidence that in order to be a Smart Ass, you first have to be smart.
I don’t know about any of you, but I didn’t find Rice’s 4 receptions for 40yds to be particularly damaging. Rather pedestrian, in fact. If you want to be an effective Troll under the above circumstances, try picking a player that actually had an impact on the outcome of the game, or in fact, one that did anything significant.
Or better yet, stay away altogether, as most of your friends have had the decency to do thus far.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
I know it's hard, but I wouldn't even bother responding to guys like these
Besides, if history means anything, the Vikings and Favre are due for an implosion when it really matters. Unless of course, maybe they’re shittiness in clutch situations has offset each other.
by Charlie Kelly on Nov 1, 2009 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
my not-so-secret-dream
…would be that the Vikings barnstorm their way to another 15-1 season, but then lose their first playoff game on a series of Favre INTs. I would soooooo love to see Vikings fans suffer through another soul-crushing repeat of 1998. :-D
Or hell, 2000
Nothing like getting shut out in the NFC Championship
Im more partial to the 2003 Vikings season
utter fail and no playoffs in the second half after going 6-1
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
Or like 2008?
That’s when the Vikings finished 7 – 2 and stole the division from the Bears at the finish line. It’s pretty bad when you guys have so much man envy that you sit around sharing your darkest hopes and dreams.
I remember pulling for the Packers in 2007 and being damned upset when they lost. You’ll never be able to do the same. But if I were you, I’d save my hopes for the Packers actually making the playoffs.
I don't start cheering for other teams
until my own are completly out of the picture…
FIRE GREG WALKER NOW!!!!!!!!!
That's right
If you can’t post about how the Packers are great and the officials rooked them out of the game and how Favre is a traitor and how Aaron Rodgers is the best ever (even when prone), then we don’t want you here.
Come on guys — the Vikings beat us fair and square (twice). They were better. Their defense is better, their special teams are better, their coaching is better, their offensive line is better, and yes, their quarterback is better. We need to tip our hats to them and see if we can salvage a playoff berth this year.
As for the end of the year, perhaps we should start considering changes in coaching and in the front office . . . .
by ktenreb on Nov 2, 2009 7:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Pedestrian
Receiving, money statistics, sure “pedestrian”, down field blocking, non statistical teamwork, very good to excellent, hell our pedestrian receiver probably threw better blocks than any single player on your entire offensive line (oh i’m sorry did you somehow forget multiple times to block the NFL’s Leader in sacks). you see playing on a team requires teamwork, leave it up to a packers fan to judge a players entire performance on two statistics, instead of the assistance in the win.
yep our D tried to loose us the game in the 3rd half, a couple less wanna be highlight reel superstars and a few more team players, and you might have had us. i do feel for you, but see you next year.
Thank you for not presenting any rational piece of evidence to contradict what he said!
There is only one stat that matters, W’s. The Vikings got it. No qualms here. I don’t know what is up with the Vikings fans coming here to “say their peace.”
Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge
by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 1:30 AM CST up reply actions
Pretty sad
When your GB outruns your starting running back:
Rushing Car Yds Avg TDs
A. Rodgers 5 52 10.4 0
R. Grant 10 30 3 0
What was with Kendall's shaved head?....looks like a fist with eyes.
scsteve (Pirates fan)
Correction: Jason Kendall IS a fist with eyes.
Derek (Brewers fan)
The rest of the league realized he's really a complimentary back.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
Here's what happened to Ryan Grant
He was a part-time starter in college on a bad Notre Dame team. TT’s plan for finding a f3eature running didn’t work (surprise!), and so at the beginning of the 2007 season it looked like the team needed some depth. TT spent a 6th round pick for what he assumed would be a third-string back who had decent hands (yes, he actually did). Jacobs didn’t work out, Wynne got hurt and lacked toughness, so Grant got his shot. His timing couldn’t have been better, because by that point of the season McCarthy and Favre had abandoned any chance of running the ball (remember, we were so bad on the O-line that we were playing with a gimmick zone-blocking scheme, to cover the lack of talent) and were killing opposing defenses with a 5 WR formation. Defenses adjusted by dropping 5 and 6 into coverage in nickel and dime defenses — against those defenses, Grant was able to run. He killed opposing defenses, and when they countered with putting more men in the box, Favre went back to killing them with slants.
After that season, Grant was a hot commodity to fans, but “real” GMs knew that it was a fluke. In fairness, Thompson knew it too, but he still stubbornly sat on his hands and took no steps to bring in a truly first-rate running back. Grant held out, and Thompson ultimately was forced to give him the big payday.
During that same summer, there was something about a quarterback/GM feud in Packerland that also was prominent, the result being that the quarterback who could run the 5 WR sets was no longer around. As the season began, Grant was not 100 percent healthy as a result of his contract holdout. He seemed to get healthier as the season progressed, and he gained over 1,000 yards, but it was pretty clear that he did not have the vision that first-rate running backs possess. Still, he was the best option on the roster and he got his carries, but at the rate of under four yards-per.
This year is the same as last year, except that Grant doesn’t have an injury excuse (at least not that I know of). The offensive line has regressed from last year, but Grant still does not show that he is truly a feature back. That was the knock against him in college, and that’s why the Giants were happy to dump him for a 6th round pick. 2007 was a fluke occasioned by a perfect storm of opportunity. It won’t happen again, and Ryan Grant is not going to turn into a genuine feature back in the NFL (unless he plays a very bad team with horrible injuries at a time when its roster is decimated by the flu).
*QB
Sure wish you could edit your replies
What was with Kendall's shaved head?....looks like a fist with eyes.
scsteve (Pirates fan)
Correction: Jason Kendall IS a fist with eyes.
Derek (Brewers fan)
Pass Protection
GB couldn’t protect Rodgers.
Vikings could protect Favre.
I think Rodgers could be a top-tier QB if he gets a good O-line.
I agree.
But there were signs of improvement in the 2nd half.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
very true.
Much to my chagrin. lol
but it made the game exciting and worthy of the hype.
by CrazyCollegian on Nov 1, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know
That holding penalty on RT Allen Barbre, which called back the completion to WR James Jones with about 2 min to go, really ended him for me. Any chance at a comeback (TD, recover onside kick) was gone. That was my final straw with him.
Rodgers is top tier
He is already pretty high up in a number of categories even with the beating he is taking. Just imagine how scary he could be with just an average line.
Losing sucks.
But it’s not the end of the world. Not even when you lose to a serial liar. There were lots of bright spots today. The Oline might have finally gelled in the 2nd half when everyone knew we were throwing on virtually every down. The protection was certainly better then than it was in the 2nd quarter. Instead of packing it in, or running up yards in the 4th quarter, the Packers got off the mat and fought back. If the defense could have turned one of those tipped balls into a pick, the game was GB’s. They just came up short.
As far as I’m concerned Harvin was the MVP. He killed us all day long on ST and on 3rd downs.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:49 PM CST reply actions
whoa hold on there...
our offensive line “gelled” in the 2nd half? I still saw Rodgers getting hit hard in the 2nd half and pressure…maybe selective negative memory on my part. And that holding call on the 3rd down conversion was proverbial straw…
Can’t agree with you on this one….
He did get hit hard in the 2nd half at times...
… but that’s going to happen to any OL going up against that front 4 when you’re playing from behind and throwing every down. There were still gaffes (like when they didn’t bother to block Allen), but they got better as the game wore on. Or at least I thought so. (I did say “might have gelled”)…
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
how…on earth…can they have left Allen unblocked on that play? I thought Lang did reasonable against him…but he has to touch him to make a play.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
It's hard to understand.
It’s not like there are a lot of blocking schemes that would leave Allen to the RB, or unblocked on a quick pass to the right. I really don’t know what Lang could have been thinking. He never even looked at Allen once the ball was snapped.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
the oline really didn't gell
rodgers just started reading the defense and got throws off much quicker
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
Probably true.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
browns fan here, but i enjoy watching the packers also. first of all, sorry that the pack couldn’t pull out a win! i watched the whole game and was jumping up and down when they got it within 4. i really wanted them to beat favre— i’m so sick of him! aaron rodgers is a stud, and he will only improve each season. he is one of my top favorite players. although they lost, he did a great job leading the offense from 21 (i think it was 21?) down. the o-line really needs some improvement but that can be fixed in the off season. and i think that the wild card is still within reach for them. hopefully the vikes crash and burn later in the season or in the playoffs!
It's really easy to forget that today was Rodgers 23rd start.
The fact that he’s trading bullets with the best QBs in the game at this point in spite of the number of hits he takes is pretty impressive.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
Sure hope the injuries to Driver/Jennings/Rodgers turn out to be minor.
We had irreplaceable players come off the field in the second half.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:51 PM CST reply actions
I'm sure they will.
Especially Rodgers. That shot he took in the midsection alone would have made him sore, and it looks like he turned an ankle late too.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
There are deffinatly some positives to pull from the second half of this game
but it’s still not enough to recover from the gut punch of losing at home to the Vikings
Yeah.
But it does make me a fan of the Saints, the Steelers, the Colts, and basically anyone else who’s shown signs of being able to derail Minnesota in the playoffs/SB.
Hell. I’ll even root for the damn Patriots against the Vikings if it comes to that. :)
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
not the patriots
I draw the line at the patriots. I hope someone else makes the SB. I don’t like the steelers either.
Any team that can get pressure on Favre will stand a chance against the vikings. The saints might be a shoot out. Who knows? Right now, I don’t really care about other teams. I’m worried about the Packers. Any chance to make the playoffs got a lot more difficult after today.
Understood.
But pull for the Saints tomorrow night. An in-conference loss for the Falcons can only help, and the Saints are all but in already.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
I'll pull for the Saints most every game, regardless of opponent
Mainly because I think Drew Brees is a stand up guy. People talk about the “crap” Favre got in GB. Brees was truly victimized by the staff in San Diego because they wanted their poster boy Rivers to play, despite the fact Brees was playing like, well, Brees.
And I will be,
pulling for the vikes, as favre is also a stand up, and kick your ass kind of a guy!
take a kid fishing, it's good for the soul. not only yours, but the child's as well !
amusing how SKOLLLL
rhymes with TROLLLLL
by vitaminx on Nov 1, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And you know what that means.
If you’re a Vikings fan, and your trust is in Favre, Favre will kick your ass!
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
If it's Patriots vs. Vikings,
I’m not even going to watch. I’ll root for both teams to lose. That would be my two least favorite NFL teams going at it.
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
There were a lot of positives out of the last two games
And they didn’t mean diddly squat today.
What was with Kendall's shaved head?....looks like a fist with eyes.
scsteve (Pirates fan)
Correction: Jason Kendall IS a fist with eyes.
Derek (Brewers fan)
The Vikings are just a better team
At this point I hope to make the playoffs, get lucky, and have another team beat the Vikings.
And I’m tired with McCarthy, maybe I’m being too emotional, but every week there are stupid penalties and a lack of discipline and adjustments that are made too late.
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
For the record, I did not hack into Michael's account and post this on his behalf.
I just happen to agree with all of it. Almost all of it. I think we’re closer to the Vikings than I thought coming into today’s game. I think, with a little luck, that we might be able to beat the Vikings in the playoffs, and not rely on someone else to do it.
Anyway, barring an injury to one of the Vikings “Big 4” (Peterson, Harvin, Allen and Favre), I don’t know that there is anyone in the NFC that can beat the Vikes besides the Saints. And barring something unforeseen, the Saints/Vikings are the 1 and 2 seeds in the NFC, which means we’ll get stuck playing one or the other before they meet if we happen to make the playoffs. Personally, I like our chances against Minnesota more than I do against the Saints.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
I agree we're closer to the Vikings than I thought
And maybe with a better coach we may have won. Where was the urgency when the game started? It shouldn’t take a 21 point deficit to realize, oh yeah we’re playing a game! It doesn’t take a genius to realize that Rodgers needs more 3 step drops A) because of the o-line and B) because, at times, he does hold onto the ball too long—-though I’ll take that over an Int but he could throw the ball away too.
And Ted, I agree, I’d rather have Fisher as well, although, after reading some of the comments on the Titans board they are not too high on him, which surprised me.
McCarthy to me is a offensive Ray Rhodes (with less success as a coordinator than Rhodes)
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
I'm listening to his post game press conference now and it really bothers me
Where’s the anger? Where’s the disgust with the lack of discipline his team plays, which reflects him as a coach. No pride, no accountability…sorry just pretty emotional after this game.
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
by Michael M on Nov 1, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No pride, no accountability...
… the latter is why I’ve been down on McCarthy for a year or so now. He spouts cliches about getting it “cleaned up” but nothing ever changes. The penalty totals were low in his first year, when there was still some carryover from Sherman’s team, but since then they’ve been through the roof. And they’re accompanied by blown assignment after blown assignment on some units (special teams, the OL). And there is no accountability.
I’m old enough to remember when Edgar Bennett fumbled in his rookie year, hit the bench and didn’t touch the ball for a month or more. When he finally got back on the field, he didn’t fumble again for a couple of seasons. Can you imagine McCarthy doing that with one of the kids on his roster? I sure as hell can’t. Jolly got sat down for all of 2 plays after his headbutt, and I didn’t see anyone grab his facemask and jerk his head around the way Holmgren did to Bill Schroeder after a similar dumbass penalty in the late 90’s.
There never is any anger about this stuff from McCarthy, and no accountability. That’s why it never changes and why it never will. The only question is whether Thompson can ever get enough talent on the roster to make the lack of discipline irrelevant.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is what happeend in 07
Favre carried that team way more than McCarthy. This is no knock on Rodgers, he simply doesn’t have enough playing time under his belt to have garnered the respect in the locker room like Favre did.
But I always did feel that Favre willed that team to win and maybe, and I’m just thinking out loud, is why he wanted out. He didn’t want to be a coach and player, just a player who had a coach who took care of the discipline with the players
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
I'm not necessarily disagreeing...
… but 2007 was a strange year. Go back and look at the game stories. Almost half the teams we played were missing significant players (often their starting QB’s, if memory serves). I’m not saying it was a bad team, but that same squad would have won 9-10 games most years.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 8:01 PM CST up reply actions
I just did look back and I tend to agree with you
Playing the Panthers with Testaverde as the starter, totally forgot about that. We played the Chargers when they were not playing well and an otherwise easy schedule.
I still agree with my above point as well, though,
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
I dont know
McCarthy isn’t bad, but he can be boneheaded at times. In 2007, when Brent was basically the play caller, he was very good at managing the team, the play calling distracts him too much from the rest of his duties as head coach. At the end of 06 and all of 07, he was good with disicpline (he benched Jones after two fumbles for the rest of the game) and penalties weren’t too bad. The team showed great improvement throughout those games.
He just wants to prove he can run an offense, and he needs to stop that and get back to the rest of his duties and get an actual coordinator.
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
As much as I often have a problem with McCarthy...
… I’d still take him over Childress. The Vikings handling of the last two possessions of the 1st half is a perfect example of why. Dumbass calls on 2nd and 3rd and short in the redzone, a 4th and 1 that let GB get out with no points given up, and then an entirely too passive approach to the last drive of the half. GB probably should have been down by 20 or 25 at halftime, not 14.
The same kinds of decisions nearly cost them games against the Niners and the Ravens.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
I was laughing at how he gave the ball back in less than two minutes
and we scored again
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
you do realize in the playoffs
a legit superbowl competitive team, like the Colts, will exploit the hell out of that kind of defense
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
Ted Simmons Spped Camp
I’ve had this thought for a while, curious if you’d agree with it: McCarthy reminds me of Linde Infante.
Or even Ray Rhodes. I liked Linde Infante. And I like McCarthy. But I never really felt like either every took charge, like a Holmgren or a Parcells or a Ryan or a Shanahan or a Fischer does.
I know I'm not TSSC
But I totally agree with this thought. It really doesn’t seem like MM ever does take charge. It doesn’t seem like he really is in full control of the team and it has shown in our play.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
I think this was when he was first hired
But I remember hearing from him that he was reading books on how to be a better leader/coach and at the time I thought, if he feels like he needs to read about it he’s not going to be very good.
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
I think the Eagles could be a team to watch out for
Sure they lost to Oakland, but they always seem to blow a few winnable games early then come on strong at the end.
by Charlie Kelly on Nov 1, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
Could be.
I just hope one of the NFC east triumverate (Giants/Boys/Eagles) implodes so we only have to worry about one of them in the WC chase.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
Giants are looking like that team
I was never a believer in them, even after they won the SB, but the last few games have really exposed them. People say that the Packer’s W’s came against bottom feeder teams, the Giants were just as bad (Washington, an injured Dallas, TB, KC, and Oakland).
every week filled with bad penalties
makes breaking the bank for Bill Cowher more and more attractive.
by CheezeconQueso on Nov 1, 2009 7:31 PM CST up reply actions
If Fisher gets canned...
… I’d take him over Cowher. Not because he’s a better coach, but because he won’t insist on being the GM too. I don’t think Cowher was making personnell decisions in Pittsburgh when he won his title and I don’t want him making those decisions in GB.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
Shanahan would be a better fit IMO
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Nov 2, 2009 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Losing confidence in McCarthy
First, the Pack did not come out ready to play this very big game. See if I remember this right…. I was mystified by the playcalling in the 4th quarter when the Pack had a solid shot at a comeback. I don’t understand lining up with an empty backfield on 2nd down with over 7 minutes and down by only 5 points. That one play led to 3rd and long, cost us a valuable first down and forced a 51 yard failed field goal attempt.
You mean?
forced a 51 yard FG that shouldn’t have even been attempted? It was a rediculous decision by McCarthy
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Nov 2, 2009 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
This isn't a Madden videogame
Rodgers needs to man up. This isn’t a videogame, this is the NFL for real. Live or die by Favre’s arm.
"You thought you could beat my team, but yours decided to go have ice cream. Bow to my awesomeness" Brad Childress
Your an idiot?
How does that make any sense? It’s going to be awesome when we get a real o-line.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
Rodgers has already done that.
Minnesota’s number four could take a page out of Rodgers’ book, and learn to act like a man for once.
Oh wait, that would be asking too much of him. And the national media would hate it because they couldn’t run any more stories on him.
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
classless
just like your steer roping “sack” leader. I do keep forgetting how the Vikings fans aren’t used to winning
"Unforgettable images: Arthur Blank pushing Vick's wheelchair; Brad Childress as chauffeur to Favre.''
-- latimesfarmer, Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times, after the Vikings coach picked up Favre and wife Deanna at the St. Paul Airport for the 30-minute ride to the Minnesota training facility.
I do keep forgetting how the Vikings fans aren’t used to winning
I’d be careful throwing a slap like that out there given how fortunes have reversed have gone since Favre was traded. Throwing that insult is like throwing a boomerang.
The Vikings still haven't won anything yet
Do 2 (incomplete) seasons equal 40+ years?
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
hey Brent how about you stay the hell away from our receivers?
We dont need you pretending to be all courteous with Jennings or your pathetic influcence on him. How about when Driver, your best receiver for the last 9 years, was down for two minutes, where were you then? Oh yeah, starrygazed at the scoreboard, cause thats all you give a shit about anymore, your own record.
Also, I will probably get a Mathews or Rodgers jersey very soon, I really need another one that doesnt have a 4 on it.
I was going to forgive Brent after this season, but after watching him jump up and down during this game while the annoucers make him sound like the good guy while Rodgers takes all the hits and looks evil (even though he had a better game statistically), I will be perfectly happy never seeing or hearing from him again for a long time and maybe ever.
And if Thomspon doesn’t replace both tackles next year he needs a new job. That goes for McCarthy and his penalties too.
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
dude chill
driver was in the middle of the field….jennings was on the sideline right by favre.
i dont remember any of the players being over there with driver
Who cares?
Harvin made the plays that made the difference when Favre wasn’t even on the field
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 9:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
Starting in the opposing teams territory the majority of the time makes things a lot easier.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
Statistically?
Ya, he did. But to any football fan watching the game, who knows what going on, it’s clear that what Rodgers was able to do was much more difficult to do then what Favre was able to do.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
I think playcalling on both offense and defense is what killed the Packers today.
The offense improved in the 2nd half, but I’ve never seen such a conservative defense against a HoF QB. Where is the attacking/blitzing defense we saw in Week 1 vs. the Bears? Wasn’t that the whole point of hiring Dom Capers and switching to the 3-4? Did anyone even watch any film of the Steelers defense from last week?
And McCarthy REALLY needs to come down on his players for stupid penalties. Holding and encroachment penalties will happen, but this has to be the most undisciplined team I’ve ever seen.
Hey Holmgren, you wanted a non assholey awsome QB?
We got one now!
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
49ers Fan here
Welcome to the 49ers world. We’ve hated Favre since 1995. The 49ers still have only beat Favre twice in his entire career. I’ve always been convinced Holmgren brainwashed Favre into playing great against the 49ers because he was always jealous he didn’t get the 49ers head coach job after Walsh retired.
BTW, I couldn’t be happier for the two NoCal players Rodgers and Havner. Both played high school football in the Sacramento Valley. And both played in the Pac-10.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
Yeah, but one was a playoff game.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
Karma
The Favre Karma bite the Niners in the ass the very next week though. Garrison Hearst broke his ankle on the very first play against Atlanta and the old Niners Dynasty was over. The 49ers have really never recovered.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
karma is a funny thing,
I don’t know how Aaron Rodgers will respond too this ?
take a kid fishing, it's good for the soul. not only yours, but the child's as well !
He'll be fine...
… assuming he’s not hurt too badly. He’s a tough kid. If he can go through all the Favre BS and still have it together mentally enough to be effective under the kind of barrage of hits he’s been suffering, then the last thing I’m going to worry about is his mindset.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
you are right ,
he’s a tough sob ,
but as, Rick Flair once said,
" to be the man you have too beat the man…….. whooooooooooooooooooo……..
take a kid fishing, it's good for the soul. not only yours, but the child's as well !
by whanabarf on Nov 1, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think AR already responded, in the second half
If I were the TB secondary I’d be very, very afraid.
I remember that.
Unfortunately for me (and Garrison), I traded two number 1 picks for him in my fantasy league right before he busted his ankle (the league I was in allowed trades year round for non playoff teams). I shrugged and figured he’d be back before the next season. Then weeks later they discovered the lost blood flow to his ankle and the fact that his foot bones were dying, another surgery ensued, and 2 years of inactivity.
I finally cut the guy. Couldn’t wait for him any longer in a 7 man keeper league. And then of course he made his near miraculous return to the NFL. As much as I wanted too, I couldn’t root against him. He was too good of a guy and too much fun to watch.
Your Niners don’t look too bad this year though. Does Singletary have them on the right track?
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
Actually 49ers ddin't actually win that playoff game
Officials reappropriated it. This was the game with The Fumble That Was Never Called just beofre TO scored the game winner in the closing seconds …
yup
jerry rice clearly fumbled that ball. and we didn’t get the chance to make up for that bad call. one of the few situations where you can blame a ref for a loss, imo
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
oh and my favorite part of the game?
The look on Brents face when that snap bounced off him.
I also love how Mathews tried to strip AD again, that would’ve been so sweet!
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
My favorite part of the game
The grin on Favre’s face as he took the field for the first time. It was a look of complete comfort. Then he dismantled the Packer defense.
Haha
What are you gonna do when Favre retires?
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
my guess
wait for training camp to be over for him to un-Favretire
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
simple, we’ll pick up Rodgers and repeat the process. He’ll get great money, and will never have to live in Green Bay again.
Too bad
we signed him to a six year deal, and that likely ensures he’s with his for the long run, or if he’s worthy of getting cut that he’ll move on. Why would you leave a franchise that showed faith in you from day one?
It was Brett’s decision to leave and then come back under very complicated circumstances. I don’t think that could ever happen again with Rodgers.
that’s an easy one, we repeat the same process – sign him and get him out of that sh-tty town. Wow, that sounds tough….
Cool story bro.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
He does have a point
Rodgers would probably love to go back to Cali.
by Charlie Kelly on Nov 2, 2009 5:39 AM CST up reply actions
I thought he was crying.
Or at least that I thought the announcers said….
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
The coach
I’m a die hard Packers fan that live in the Bay Area in Calif all my family are 9ers or Raiders fan except me I’ve been a fan sence 1960 and we had some great yrs under St Vince.Then nothing for how many yrs alot till Wolf brought Brett over in 92 he gave everything he had just as he did today TT/Mike didn’t want him but someone else did.Now all you people in Green Bay Boo him after what he gave you tell me all the people in GB aren’t that dumb.While he was there we won and lost but now he’s gone and yes Aaron Rodgers will be good wen they gt a good Oline,can it be that all you people there are blind because look what you have for a coach,were did he come from the 49ers OC.What did he do there and this I know cause he’s across the bay nothing he wen 2-14 and TT rewards him with the team,we are never going to be better than 8-8 as long as Mike is the coach.As for all this hating of Brett is just stupid why can’t you be grown up enough to say good luck Brett and thank you for the wonderful yrs you gave us,show some class people of GB.
It's too bad that you're spelling gets in the way
because I agree with you on McCarthy, for the most part. But come on, he’s on our biggest rival why wouldn’t we boo? and that’s putting everything else aside.
and please don’t forget that he retired…but that debate and has been hashed to death
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
You weren't booing a team.
You were booing a local hero who was the face of the Packers for many years. What a bunch of cry babies.
Who cares?
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
Local Hero?
He plays football…he isn’t a doctor.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Nov 1, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'll cheer for him when he comes back for his
jersey retirement ceremony. And maybe I would give him his applause if he was still on the jets or any other team other than the Vikings or Bears. As long as he is a member of either of those teams he will get boo’d like the rest of the team.
This is the winner...
Any other team besides the Bears or Vikings, I am cheering. It really is that simple.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
And you booed him for years when he was establishing a legend here in Green Bay.
To quote you
“What a bunch of cry babies.”
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
isn't it hilarious
how they forget what Brent used to do to them?
"Unforgettable images: Arthur Blank pushing Vick's wheelchair; Brad Childress as chauffeur to Favre.''
-- latimesfarmer, Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times, after the Vikings coach picked up Favre and wife Deanna at the St. Paul Airport for the 30-minute ride to the Minnesota training facility.
That would really be thought provoking if it wasn't completely unreadable.
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion and to share it, but if you really find the booing today to be objectionable, maybe you should switch to the Vikings? Many have, though I don’t doubt they’ll be back and speak little of their brief tenure as Viking fans one Favre is gone.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
It is just booing.
You boo the other team, it happens.
Personally, I was booing Longwell.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Nov 1, 2009 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah.
Kickers, man.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
Despicable fans
Some GB fans choose to boo Fvare today. In doing so they proved what poor sportmanship they possess. You guys are like the spurned lover who says “if I can’t have him… nobody can”. I can’t believe that type of loser mentality.
Thanks for the insight.
I’ll tell my therapist you think I’m loser and together, perhaps we can rebuild my life. :)
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
Hi Guys,
I post on internet forums. I believe it is fun to post how much better I am than lowly GB fans who boo Favre. I spout cliches when I can support any opinions with facts. Instead of just saying nice game, I say they were poor sportsmen and call a whole fan base despicable.
Signed,
Belarus
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
I, for one, am glad that these Vikings fans are so concerned about us besmirching the name of their long-time hero. How else would I know how classless and despicable that I am?
Besides, who better to teach us about class than the team that made the Love Boat famous again?
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
by verno329 on Nov 1, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Okay, I lol'ed
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
Got yourself a rec there, buddy.
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Gotta love taking sportsmanship cues
from the guy who comes over to the rivals board to gloat over a victory. Have fun on your soapbox
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Curious
Was it poor sportsmanship when the Vikes fans booed Packers players at the dome?
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
We have poor sportsmanship?
Look at yourself in the mirror, you’re the one doing it.
Go home to your cave.
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
just keep coming here
and posting this over and over because we may take you seriously one day.
"Unforgettable images: Arthur Blank pushing Vick's wheelchair; Brad Childress as chauffeur to Favre.''
-- latimesfarmer, Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times, after the Vikings coach picked up Favre and wife Deanna at the St. Paul Airport for the 30-minute ride to the Minnesota training facility.
M/M
yes doesn’t he hav the right to change his mind
Vikings are a better team.
They are just a better team right now.
I was really disapointed in the special teams. Coverage was bad and the returns were anemic. Crosby needs to hit a long field goal that is important.
If there were any positives it was that they didn’t just lie down once they were down. Rodgers took some hits but stuck in there and put them back in the game.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Nov 1, 2009 9:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Special Teams was horrible!
I don’t think we are that far behind the Vikings as others have said. Just can’t make mistakes to the point of debilitation and let them start their drives in your backyard.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Or
How ’bout if “big leg” Crosby could maybe, just maybe deliver one kickoff in the endzone rather than the 10 or 15 yard line?
and take away some of the strength he needs to miss FG’s in critical situations? we can’t have that
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
This morning, I heard some fantasy football guy cite Crosby as why the Pack was going to win a close one today.
Needless to say perhaps, but I was left sputtering in disbelief.
Where does this national admiration for Crosby come from? Name one clutch kick he’s ever made?
Wondering the same
Maybe it’s cause he probably has easily the strongest leg in the pros. But as we have seen, you need some accuaracy to go along with that.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly,
The Packers’ special teams are really struggling at punter and kicker.
It was embarassing to watch that awesome Vikings punter bury the Pack after every defensive stop and then have to counter with the likes of Kapinos. Ugh.
Special teams are not going to win you Super Bowls I suppose, but shit, they definitely won a hell of an important step toward one today for the Vikings.
Kapinos
Someone should tell him that you want to kick the ball high and long, not low and short….
Yeah, and our kickoff coverage looked absolutely horrible today. I don’t think there is any better way to kill momentum then giving up a 50+ yard kickoff return, multiple times.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for reminding me of Yet Another Thompson Brilliant move
Dumping Ryan for Frost, forcing them to later grab Kapinos in an emergency move.
Cutting Ryan still bewilders me to this day. I recall Thompson saying it was because his “statisitcs in cold” were slightly better" or some such BS . Even though anyone with eyes in his head saw that Ryan was the best punter in bad conditions the Packers had in years.
I have a feeling that there
was some internal strife between Ryan and Thomspon.
I heard a rumor that Ryan made a joke about Thompson being gay and was cut for that. I don’t believe this rumor, but believe it may have been someting similar.
The only reason that has any plausibilty that I have heard yet.
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
I've hear a very similiar rumour that Favre made the same kind of joke
something about Thomson walking down a hallway and Favre being in a room with the door open and making some “homo” joke because he knew TT was gong by. This was around the time of the Moss thing, so way before he “retired,” and when Favre was first starting to get pissed at him. Ad it was also at least 5th-hand rumor, friend heard from friend heard from friend heard from ???
kinda sad Favre did that if true, but TT has to have thicker skin than that if so. After all, he’s the one who’s always saying he has to put the interests of the team first. At least in dumping Favre, the Packers still had Rodgers. When they dumped Ryan, they had zilch. And it was like two days before start of season.
although Ryan did have a terrible game against the Bears
a game I happend to be at, so I really wasnt horribly upset to see him go, but that game was really an outlier
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
Yep
It was hard to see Ryan go on and have a great year punting for the Seahawks but in TT’s defense Ryan was so-so for us, and had some really bad games. Still a pretty big mistake though.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
are you SERIOUS ?!?!?!?!?!
JoN Ryan played in Green Bay exactly two years. Here are the “Highest Gross Average, Punting, Season (35 punts)” straight from packers.com:
* 45.0 yards, Craig Hentrich, 1997 (75 punts)
* 44.7 yards, Jerry Norton, 1963 (51 punts)
* 44.5 yards, Jon Ryan, 2006 (84 punts)
* 44.4 yards, Jon Ryan, 2007 (60 punts)
* 44.1 yards, Boyd Dowler, 1961 (38 punts)
If Ryan was so so, then everyone else that ever punted for packers SUCKED.
The one knock on Ryan was inside the 20.
I don’t even want to look if that is true. I just remember that was his biggest complaint that he would never pin anyone back.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions
Come on
Even if you believe that, you are seriously going to argue that justified dumping him for Frost (who wasn’t even here in the preseason), are you?
That was a headscratcher from the moment it happened, and if you read any papers then, you should know it.
Rodgers over Favre, you definitely have a leg to stand on. But Frost over Ryan? Trying to hold out on that one makes you look like an unthinking homeboy who would circle the wagons and defend TT even if he was killing puppies for sport (not even Hotlanta fans are that deluded LOL). Basic military strategy truth: sometimes by trying to defending your weakest positions, you weaken your stronger ones.
that's not a defense of the move
it was a description of the knock on Ryan. i think it was an incredibly foolish decision, imo, but its not like Ryan was Ray Guy or Reggie Roby for god’s sake
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Woah....Calm there bud....
I just stated what I thought was the reason they may have let him go. Did I ever say it was good or bad? No. I would have kept Ryan, could careless about inside the 20 when the guy is booting rockets.
Seriously read before you post. No need for the tone.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Just chill a bit
Like I said there were “things” TT wasn’t happy with about Ryan’s punting. Do I think that justifies him releasing him? No, like I already said to you earlier. But it isn’t like the guy is was a God.
It was a dumb move by TT, we all know that.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
Name a clutch kick?
You dont remember that absurdly long FG (insert random anouncers name) saw him make during pregame vs (insert random college team name)?
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Nov 2, 2009 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
He's had at least one
The game winner against Philly in his first pro game in ’07.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Nov 2, 2009 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
Let me ask you guys as a non-Packers fan. How much respect do you have for Rodgers after this game? He kept taking shots and kept getting back up. I’ve loved him since his Cal days, but my love for the guy sky rocketed after this game. He’s starting to prove that he isn’t injury prone and one tough SOB.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
I have the same amount of respect that I had for him before this game
And I had after last season. To go through what he did with Favre (it’s hard enough just replacing a legend) and to play the way he has with virtually no protection at times is very admirable.
I was worried about him being injury prone coming into last year, not so much now, but I hope he’s ok after today’s game.
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
Rogers
I also have a lot of respect for Rodgers because of how he handled the Favre situation. It was truly unfair to Aaron how he was vilified when Favre unretired. I mean a few posts talked about how “despicable” GB fans were to boo Favre, but no one seems to remember that the truly classless fans were the Favre fans, booing Rodgers before the kid even had a chance to prove himself, and for decisions that were out of his control. For him to rise up in the face of his critics like he has, it just commands a great level of respect.
by chewie on Nov 2, 2009 12:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I have liked Rodgers quite a bit since the beginning.
He handled last year about as well as any player could. He has played well and has improved. I was actually shocked a few times at the end of the game when passes weren’t near anybody, I have become so accustomed to him being accurate.
He hasn’t played perfect, but when did BLANK ever play perfect either. The entire talent level and discipline of the rest of the team needs to be raised (discipline especially)
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Nov 1, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions
I've been sold on him since last year
The first game against the Vikes this year he was also battered and led a good comeback. His attitude and confidence have me believing but he needs to make some better decisions some times. He holds the ball for too long when he doesn’t have the time and doesn’t trust his legs enough, imo. He can make an impact running with the ball when the situation calls for it but he doesn’t always take advantage.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
The Pack clearly has the QB of the future. I’m a Vike’s fan, but I really like Rodgers. What’s not to like? Great feet, great arm, quick thinker. Favre left cause GB hated his improv routine, and McCarthy (sp?) and Thompson wanted to move ahead. Brett saw a sh-tty o-line and no mgmt support and tipped his hand. The Jets were the only suitor at the time, and it bought him an active year to set himself up for a move to the Vikes. Even I knew Tarvaris and Sage were the best of the worst. What hall of fame QB with gas in the tank could turn down a MN offer? Best RB in football, good O line, good defense?
No, it wasn't some grand conspiracy
To start with, Jets were not “only suitor” Favre actually thought he was going to Bucs.
But
They were one suitor and according to Cook, they were also a suitor that Favre was interested in.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Did you even follow the "Favre Saga?"
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions
it has shot up quite a bit after the last season and before this one
with the way he treated the whole situation
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
All told though
I’m getting sick of moral victories. While the comeback was nice, I’m sick of playing the woulda/coulda/shoulda game. Bottom line is we lost a winnable game. We didn’t show up in the first half, committing penalties, giving up sacks. This type of stuff can’t continue.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
by verno329 on Nov 1, 2009 9:27 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
A winnable game?
Without the Robison fumble it’s a blowout. Throw in the quick whistle on Grant’s opening drive fumble and I think the Packers barely dodged a laugher. If the Packers think this game was winnable like you do they’ll have a hard time finishing above 500.
Yeah, and if if weren't for all of those points, the Vikings would have shut the Packers out.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 1, 2009 9:40 PM CST up reply actions
What a croc
I am convinced you know little about the game. You speak only in absolute terms. What a homer.
speaking of guys who only deal in absolutes
Without the Robison fumble it’s a blowout. Throw in the quick whistle on Grant’s opening drive fumble and I think the Packers barely dodged a laugher.
You do realize that the Queens had a 21 point lead in the second half, right? And that the Packers had the ball with a chance to take the lead with 8 minutes left in the game? That’s what is called a winnable game. If you have a chance to take the lead in the fourth quarter, that is a winnable game. The Packers did not win though, due to the Vikings finally making a stand and closing out the game. The Vikings deserve credit for winning but to say that it was a laugher is idiotic. If I were you I would be a little worried about your defense’s propensity to give up large second half leads, as this is the second time it has happened just to this team this year. But I’m sure that’s not a big concern of yours.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
You do realize
That the only way the Pack gets back into the game is bacause a thick DL believes he is talented enough to rumble up the field on a kickoff return with the ball in one hand. Without the ridiculously early whistle in the opening drive, Robison’s fumble is meaningless. The Packers held Adrian Peterson up longer in Minneapolis before Matthews stripped the ball than Ryan Grant was held up.
What about the roughing the passer penalty against Ray Edwards on a play that was not roughing the passer? In fact the only reason he doesn’t staight out sack Rodgers is that the Packer’s no-name hack right tackle blatently holds Edwards arm as he goes around him. The penalty took the Pack inside the 20 instead of moving them back to the 50, and set up their final TD.
The Pack wasn’t close to winning that game yesterday… face the facts.
Anyone who plays the "what if" card after a game to illustrate his assertion...
… is a fool. The game doesn’t work that way. I don’t speak in absolutes that often, but I will here: you cannot watch a football game, isolate a couple of plays, and say that without those plays the game would be completely different. At least not as long as human beings continue to live in a linear timeline.
But I wouldn’t expect a troll like yourself to comprehend that. Even if you did, you wouldn’t admit it, because you’re not really here to argue football. You’re just indulging yourself in a small attempt at making yourself feel important by mocking others.
That makes you, in a word, pathetic.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 2, 2009 8:07 PM CST up reply actions
In the ways of BCB!!!
BOOM. ROASTED.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone who resorts to name calling clearly cannot make a point that carries any weight.
If you think the momentum of a game cannot be turned around by a single play, or a couple of them, you don’t know what you are talking about. It doesn’t matter whether a ref blew a call, or a player made a play. I can remember dozens of game results that turned on a single play. Here are a few: Remember the Jerry Rice fumble in the 1998 playoff game? The refs get that call right and the Packers win the game. How about the Titans forward lateral during a kickoff that won a playoff game. I’d suggest you stop name calling and start backing your posts with facts. Boom. Roasted.
well sure.
I can come with about a half a dozen plays from EVERY SINGLE GAME that I could do that with. What happens if that idiot Jolly doesn’t headbutt the Viking? Oh a drive stalls, the Vikings punt, 7 points come off the board, momentum is stopped. Maybe the Packers get some momentum. Yeah it goes both ways…his point is right though, the game is done things happened the way they did. I could literally come up with one of those plays for every Viking game this season and most of the Packer games. Playing hypotheticals is for whiners.
BAM. REROASTED!
Um
Just a guess, but I am pretty sure the Vikings wouldn’t have punted from the Packers 14 yard line. I think the roast just blew up in your face.
err...still a weak argument. Roast still on!
oh sorry…field goal. four point swing. Meaning late in the game its TIED, not a 5 pt deficit (since there would have been no reason to go for two then).
The point remains the same…I could pick out numerous “game changing plays” where if it went just a hair differently the outcome changes. Sorry man…didn’t blow up at all actually. Its a weak argument that weak arguers use to make points. The Vikings made the plays to win…you don’t need to make arguments about what ifs. What ifs are for losers, sorry man.
Roast all over the place
You base your whole rant on a mistaken premise, then back track as if it never happened. You ought to be a politician. Now back to the points at hand.
First, Ted Simmons said “you cannot watch a football game, isolate a couple of plays, and say that without those plays the game would be completely different”. I said not only could a person do tha, but offered a couple of great examples. I am glad you agree with me on that point.
Second, I picked two plays that the Packers had nothing to do with, but rather the refs blew their calls on. The ridiculously early whistle on the Packers first drive saved Ryan Grant a fumble and cost the Vikes a TD. I pointed out that the Packers held Adrian Peterson up longer in Minneapolis before Matthews stripped the ball than Ryan Grant was held up last Sunday. Still the refs allowed Matthews TD while they called the Grant play dead because forward progress was stopped. I also mentioned the roughing the passer penalty against Ray Edwards on a play that was not roughing the passer which dramitically changed field position just when the Packers needed it most. When something great happens for you that you did nothing to cause, that’s called luck.
On the other hand you mentioned something the Packers, or more specifically Jolly had complete control over. He was a boneheaded idiot and head butted Taylor to give the Vikes first and goal at the 7 yard line. When something bad happens to you that you caused that’s just plain stupidity. Enter Robison and his fumble.
Losing by 12 at home is bad, but the game result could have easily been worse for the Packers.
My argument is still the same. Reflecting on bad calls or missed plays or anything that didn’t happen is a losers lament. If I truely cared enough, I could find a few poor calls or missed calls by refs that had an affect on the game. They are part of the game…EVERY game. I could name many games the Packers lost where a phantom PI could be to blame but the fact is that it happened, the call was made, move on.
Loser's lament
except the Vikes won in spite of the bad calls. That makes mine a winner’s lament.
My point is the same too. It could have been a lot worse for the Packers.
the officials !
No, no, no ! do not even attempt to blame anything on the officials in this one…
Yes, the roughing the passer was a ticky-tack call, not as ticky as the one that Brady cried him self to some weeks ago, but still a ticky-tack.
Al Harris got away with a facemask on Favre’s 4th TD (but then the game was over…) If I go through the whole game, I’m sure I’ll see something the Vikings got away with too.
As for the fumble or no fumble, and fwd progress being stop, to go indept on that one, I could write for an hour and just confuse most here with very officiating technical terms.
To try and keep it short and simple, when fwd progress is stopped is a judgement call. the rule says it is when the ballcarrier is held so that his fwd progress is stopped, but that’s teory, in a game it is not that simple. Does the ballcarrier have a realistic shot at breaking loose? or does he try to get loose to further advance the ball ? those are the big questions. If like in this game, were Grant was held up by several Vikings players, he’s chance of breaking loose is between slim and none, and to avoid injury to any players, the fwd progress should be called to kill the play as soon as possible.
If I remember correctly from the first game, A.P was held by only one Packer defender, thereby making it a lot more likely for him to break free, you will let the play go on and see what happens, I also do think A.P was still kind of going fwd and sideways when the ball was stripped.
But to end it before I get too technical, it is a judgement call, sure it might seem very easy to make thoose calls from your couch after several replays, but to make them in a split second on the field is extremly difficult, according to a fan pole on ESPN earlier this year, NFL is the hardest sport to officiate.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?pollId=76255
I think the NFL officials does a great job. Look at all the reviews, and more often than overturning the call on the field, the review confirms it,sure they make some mistakes too, but they are only humans. And the big mistakes are very few and very far between.
One can debate for a long time about the judgement calls but in the end, 99% of the time, nobody has a better view than the official on the field, no camera can ever replace the officials on the field.
I like smoking crazy stuff too...
You know those two throws up in the area could have been picked! Nevermind, you fooled me. I didn’t realize the game was played in Coulda-HDTV.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Aside from two plays the Packers had little or no control over, they would have been a national laughing stock today. As it is getting beat by 12 in a must win situation at home should be an embarrassment.
Aside from every play Minnesota made...those shouldn't count either...
Wait, assumptions…it is a pretty weak leg to stand on when trying to constructively debate or interact. You aren’t worth another response.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Packer fans are good at that
Many of you complained that the reason you couldn’t sach Brett in the 1st Pack – Vike game this year was because your pass rushers were being held… but the refs just wouldn’t call it.
sack
dumb
"Are we doing everything we can to win games, or are we doing everything we can to run a certain thing that we want to run? I want to win, and I want to do whatever it takes to win. At some point you have to take the handcuffs off and let the boys play." - Cullen Jenkins 11/01/09
And if you think
Brent Favre can go three games in the playoffs without making a mistake that costs his team the game then you’ll have a hard time not being disappointed
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
are you serious?
You are aware that there have been seasons in between 1996 and now, right? The fact is that his playoff history since 2000 has shown that he can’t be relied on to play 3 or 4 error free games in a row. I can show you the proof if you can’t remember.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Ignore the great
Focus on the negatives. You are a typical GB fan. How about focusing on this negative? The Packers are 10 – 13 since Favre left. That’s something you can’t blame on Brett.
Here's what I can blame on Brett:
A 3-6 record since his last Super Bowl appearance in the playoffs with 16 TDs and 18 interceptions in those 9 appearances.
Including a backbreaking interception in overtime, at home, in the NFC Championship game after winning the coin toss.
quit focusing on the negative!
it’s so foolish, the only logical thing to do is assume that if someone did something great 13 years they are essentially guaranteed to do it again this year.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Those 6 losses were Brett's fault alone?
Come on man. The 1998 wildcard game played against the 49ers in January 1999 is all I have to point to in order to completely debunk your myth. In 2004, the Packers probably don’t even make the playoffs unless Favre had the season he had. You’re just another Brett detracter.
I agree
That is a stupid argument. At the same time, he is not solely the reason for or the reason why we got there…also a stupid argument. Both sides are throwing the same ridiculousness alone. I wish we could just put it all behind. The past was great. The future still looks bright. This year is going to be a year of growing pains…lets move on.
Okay
That’s true. I just think it’s stupid to claim that Brett can’t play well in the postseason. he has 12 postseason wins for the Packers. Personally I think he propelled the Packers teams into the playoffs during seasons they had no business being there. They went in with 9-7 or 10-6 records and lost to superior teams. They couldn’t hope to make the playoffs in 93,94, and 2004 without Brett’s contributions during the season. So to blame him for those postseason losses is ludicrous. And since Aaron hasn’t taken his team to the postseason yet, a comparison cannot be made.
I also believe the references to the 2007 NFC Championship game are nonsense. I watched the game and was pulling for the Pack. Almost every Packer fan I hear from wants to blame Favre for that loss. True he threw an INT in OT. But conveniently not mentioned is the Packers failure to establish any running game while the Giants ran for well over 100 yards that day. Favre’s passes were nearly the entire GB offensive output that day, including the 90 yarder to Driver. Favre played very well.
The Giants missed two field goals in the 4th quarter; one from 36 yards at the end of regulation. That was the only reason there was an OT to begin with. So blaming Favre for the loss is scape goating.
The reason they blame it on him was because of how awful of a pass it was…it was one of those where you wonder what the hell he was thinking. The packers got lucky to even make it to OT and then he came out after we get the ball and with one throw pissed the game away. Was the loss his fault, no…was EVERY Packer fan cursing him when he threw it,…YES. He did play very well but his mistake also immediately lead to the loss…something we’ve seen a cagillion times. So its not entirely his fault but its very easily blamed on him as well since it was his play and entirely his play that lead to the loss.
You can’t look at recent history though and notice Favre’s string of really poor outings (2007 playoffs aside). He faded very badly at the end of seasons and eventually would melt down in the playoffs. Early in his career he was very clutch in the playoffs but with age it very quickly started fading. So to say he has 12 post season wins, meanwhile ignoring the losses, isn’t painting the full picture. I do agree with you on some levels though.
11 losses
More in both categories than Bart Starr because he led the Packers to so many postseason appearances. I do understand your point though. I have never completely forgiven Gary Anderson for missing a 39 yard FG that cost the Vikes the 98 NFC Championship, or Denny Green for having Randall Cunningham take a knee at the end of regulation.
And Gary Anderson was PERFECT all season. Never missed a FG or extra point. You wouldn’t have made it where you did without him, yet its his fault because he missed ONE time all year! :-) Look at Steve Christie for Buffalo too…had an amazing year, but missed the FG to win over the Giants and his fans never forgave him for it.
You're missing the point here.
You make a fallacious argument saying that the Packers are 10-13 since Favre left, and it’s something we can’t blame on Brett. Sure, but it’s just as equally ludicrous to suggest that those 13 losses have anything to do with Brett’s departure as well, much like a couple of those playoff losses didn’t have much to do with Brett, like with 4th and 26.
But there are three really awful, terrible stinkers there that do point out Favre’s postseason struggles post-Holmgren:
1. The 2001 playoff game against the Rams. 6 interceptions. Maybe the worst game of his career outside of that Bears game where the winds were at like 50MPH. But this is magnified due to the importance of the game. It was expected we would lose to a Rams team that was really, really good, but Favre made things much worse.
2. The 2004 game against the Vikings. Remember the dumbassed underhanded, past the line of scrimmage throw in the red zone while down 17-10 before halftime? Most people remember that and the 3 points we had to take with it instead of the TD, but folks seem to forget Favre had a 55.4 rating in that game with 1 touchdown and 4 INTs.
3. The 2007 NFC Championship. Everyone remembers the OT interception, and rightfully so, but he had a pretty mediocre game going up to that point as well.
And the run you’re thinking of is 2003, not 2004. He did have a magnificent season then and if it wasn’t for a horrible defensive failure as well as a wussed out decision not to go for it on 4th and 1, the Packers may well have cruised to a title that year. I appreciate a lot of the great things he did for our franchise but you have to be objective- the man had a miserable amount of failures in crucial moments, especially for a Hall of Famer. Maybe the coaching hasn’t been up to snuff since Holmgren, maybe the GM duo of Sherman (shudder) and Thompson haven’t gotten the players he needed to be as successful as he is right now, but for whatever reason he just hasn’t been that good outside of his 2007 regular season and this year, where he has more than enough talent around him that he doesn’t have to go into “gunslinger mode.”
2007 NFC Championship
No, Brett Favre did not play his best game, but it was not his fault the Packers only got 29 rushing yds in the game, it was not Brett who let Plaxico Burres catch a lot of balls for a lot of yds, the Packers got outplayed in the threnches (both sides of the ball) in that game, and yet they managed to stay in it and force overtime, thanks to other contributing factors, the defense held the Giants to FG attempts, and they missed two. Mark Tauscher recovered a fumble after the first Favre int.
Favre and Driver saved the day with that change-up pass for a 90 yd TD.
Yes, eventually, the game ended on Favres less than good pass in OT, but the entire team lost that one.
Yes, the Packers post-Holmgren does not have an impressive post season record, but at least they made it to the post season most of the years with Favre.
Some of those games, like on of the Philly games, were on the defense, like that horrible 4th&26 play, were the safeties were watching instead of tackling.
Well in that case, if it weren’t for Jolly headbutting Taylor, the Vikings would have only gotten 3 points. Or how about our ability to cover kick offs? You can say all the “what if’s” in the world but the bottom line is it’s part of the game.
I’ve been reading all your snobbish posts on this thread and we all understand how you feel. Favre got his revenge, if you want to call it that. He swept us, and looked good both games doing it. No one will contest to that.
Now let it go. For the most part we all like how TT handled the situation and the things you say aren’t going to change that. Just like the things we say in defense of our organization won’t change your mind on how you feel Favre was “screwed”.
A laugher? Was it laughable to you to see what Rodgers did to the Vikes defense when he actually had time? I know a lot of you Vikings fans feel your superior to most teams in the league but that’s really not the case. You guys couldn’t put away our lowly team despite being up 24-3, and to add to that, we even had an oppourtunity to take the lead.
It’s going to be so satisyfing watching Rodgers with a real o-line in the future. You may be to naive to see it because of your blind love for Favre but he
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
More points on sportsmanship from the Vikings fans
How is that a guy they hated for 16 years they are now whining about how he was “screwed” by his former franchise? I know I try to focus all of my attention on making sure that my enemies aren’t screwed over by someone else. Makes perfect sense, huh?
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
I know
Kind of ironic right? Do you think they are looking out for him because they secretly liked him for those 17 years? Or do you think they are looking out for him only because he is now a member of their team? The answer to your question above is obvious, as is mine.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
How is that you worshipped him for 16 years, and now you guys are all over this thread talking about how he blew this and that game for GB, how he made this and that mistake that cost you a win? Where was this vitriol when he was with the Jets? Now that he’s playing you, and beating you, you have nothing but hate for the guy, the same guy who made the Packers relevant again. He went to the team that he felt he could contribute to and put them in a position to win besides GB, which just happened to be Minn. Because last time I checked, he didn’t ask to leave GB. And I’m tired of hearing all the complaining about how the media always knob-slobs Favre. You didn’t have a problem with it for the 16 years that you had him.
by pjlawrence81 on Nov 2, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you really
need to go back and read the threads before posting this garbage. its insane how idiots have no clue what they say, just pop brain and pour,
"Unforgettable images: Arthur Blank pushing Vick's wheelchair; Brad Childress as chauffeur to Favre.''
-- latimesfarmer, Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times, after the Vikings coach picked up Favre and wife Deanna at the St. Paul Airport for the 30-minute ride to the Minnesota training facility.
do some research before you ramble
there was vitriol last year (though not as strong), no one player made the Packers relevant again, there’s no coincidence that he ended up in MN, and he did want to leave. come back after you’ve learned something
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
And I’m tired of hearing all the complaining about how the media always knob-slobs Favre. You didn’t have a problem with it for the 16 years that you had him.
Yes, actually we did. Because it took away from the very good teams that Wolf built. Favre was a large part of our winning, but so was our defense and the rest of our team.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
LMAO, “when he had time” Who isn’t good when they have time? Tarvaris was good when he had time. We have crushed the life out of your town….again……..what else is there in Green Bay? Booze? Though it was funny when I heard about the GM assembly plants having to modify their workforce based on Packer wins/losses. Now I find it pathetic.
So you just joined APC to start talking junk?
Are you even going to contribute something that is worth intellectual value? Looks like it is not possible, but I will hope you do in the future.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2009 1:37 AM CST up reply actions
He's trying to show us lowly Packer fans what class is all about
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Exactly
What was Jolly thinking? That was a bone headed play by a bone headed player.
As far as Rodgers goes, he was impressive. You are the snobbish one however if you think that reflected poorly on the Vikes. How could you defend Rodgers as being the answer in one breathe, and laugh at the Vikings for having him throw for some yardage against them.
As far as the O-Line of the future, that is a figment of your imagination right now. TT has a propensity for trading down in the draft to get volumes of picks in the middle rounds. That has guaranteed that the Pack get loads of good players but few elite players. Don’t look now, but the Packers OL cupboard is bare.
And while I am at it
Packallday, the only people that truely believe Favre came back for nothing but revenge are some small minded people in your neck of the woods. Get over yourselves. Favre came back to play, and win. He’s doing both. I found it interesting that Favre was the one that ran out to find McCarthy and say hello after the game yesterday. MM looked like he wanted to run the other direction, but didn’t see Brett until it was too late. And yet Rodgers, Driver, and Jennings stayed and talked to Favre for an extended period of time. At least there was class exhibited on the field by someone associated with the Packers yesterday.
You know what
I like you Belarus, though my comments toward you wouldn’t show it.
As far as the O-Line of the future, that is a figment of your imagination right now. TT has a propensity for trading down in the draft to get volumes of picks in the middle rounds. That has guaranteed that the Pack get loads of good players but few elite players. Don’t look now, but the Packers OL cupboard is bare.
Well it’s evident that, that method is no longer going to work. We are an average o-line from being a very good team in this league. It’s not hard to see and I would like to think TT and MM see this and will hopefully do something about it.
I don’t contest that he didn’t come back because he wanted to play but the people who say revenge had nothing to do with it are small minded. Do you think it was a coincidence that as soon as he found out TT was really going to honor his committment to Rodgers the rumors started flying about him wanting to play within the NFC North?
I had no idea that Favre talked with Rodgers, Driver, and Jennings after the game and that indeed does seem like a very classy thing.
As for the Jolly thing, I really still can’t get over it. It was just such a dumbass play.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
it would be nice
if some vikings fan had class
"Are we doing everything we can to win games, or are we doing everything we can to run a certain thing that we want to run? I want to win, and I want to do whatever it takes to win. At some point you have to take the handcuffs off and let the boys play." - Cullen Jenkins 11/01/09
Likeing TT ??
For the most part we all like how TT handled the situation
I know for a fact, A LOT of Packer fans disagree strongly with you on this one !
Brett Favre did not handle the situation very well, true, and he’s admitted to that.
Mike McCarthy did not hadle the situation very well either, and he’s to some extent admitted to that.
Ted Thompson handled the situation worst of them all, and he still keeps his mouth shut about the whole thing, knowing whatever he would say, would make him look worse.
Aaron Rodgers handled it as well as he could have, but he was also more a spectator, he had no say in it.
Reasonable Vikings are welcome!
I think we are running down a round where we fall victim to preventable mistakes which need to be corrected if the Packers ever want to make the next step up.
One of the announcers said it perfectly. One team looks mature while the other doesn’t. I agree. Except our immaturity happens at the worse possible times.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yep,
An above average team beat an average team today. That’s usually how it goes…
I am proud of how this offense came back and played with intensity and pride in the second half after falling behind 24-3.
I just cannot accept how bad this team performed in the first half and I’m looking right at McCarthy to blame for the utter lack of preparedness, intensity, and even a scrap of gameplan adjustment after the first meeting.
I mean seriously, this could have well been a recording of the first game with Lambeau Field superimposed on the screen and you’d be hard pressed to point out much of a difference.
I am honestly not too down on the Packers
They played a good team to the teeth. The thing that just does laps around my head is the mistakes and how badly they get magnified. They go from looking like a real competitor to looking like the worst team in the league in a matter of snaps.
They are way too up and down. The mistakes need to be controlled and that goes up to MM.
I expect some errors during a game. I just don’t expect so many on the level of “bonehead” to be made. The team has the parts to do good things, they just don’t have the mental discipline at this point. There needs to be some skulls cracked.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
You know, you're right
I’m not nearly as disappointed today as I was after the first loss to Favre and Co.
I just can’t believe how much similar this game played out in comparison to the last meeting.
To parrot Woodson, where was the blitzing? Clearly Favre needed to be disrupted if the Pack had any hope of winning.
But to this team’s credit, they definitely have AP’s number. Outside of one great run and that back-breaking screen pass at the end, he was totally contained all year.
Small comforts….
Exactly
What the hell was Jolly doing head-butting Taylor? That dumb ass move gave them 7 points instead of 3, and would have made a HUGE difference seeing as how we were at one point down by 4 points. All the personal foul penalties we get are absolutely ridiculous. The “guys are just playing hard” excuse for all the penalties we get is ok for the holding calls, etc., but not personal foul penalties.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Those are the penalties that keep drives going...
they should lead to scores and do against the Packers. Teams are making the Packers pay for their mistakes right now.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
And, in turn,
The Pack way too often settles for FGs when other teams screw up (e.g., Favre’s fumbled snap).
How painful was it to come out and manage 2 yards and 3 points after that early turnover?
Yep, they all come to fruition. They add to the frustration.
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by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, they are. It really makes it easy on teams, when they have multiple chances inside the redzone.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
reasonable Vikings fans as defined by their willingness to be wimpy saps? I was impressed with one Packer today, and that was Rodgers. He actually made Jennings look good. After that, I didn’t see a lot to be impressed about
Ah, it will be great when Favre and the Vikings blow it
then Favre will retire, the Vikings will desperately scramble to find a QB from another team so they don’t have to play either Jackson or Rosenfels. Peterson will begin the downswing of his career and we’ll be back to the Vikings of old where games are blacked out and I can watch Packers games every Sunday.
by Charlie Kelly on Nov 2, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It was a frustrating game to watch. We were so inconsistent, which is largely due to our o-line play. When the o-line finally did decide to block we made a nice comeback and it looked like our offense really couldn’t be stopped. It was kind of depressing that the one 3rd and 10 Capers decided to bring the blitz, the Vikings ran a play to the one spot that was vulnerable.
There were some flashes of a very good team, and then there were flashes of a very average team. The Vikings, in my opinion, are one of the better ones in the league right now. When we played well, we really looked every bit as impressive as they did, and I guess we’ll just have to hope that we eventually become that consistent, very good team this afternoon that showed up for a bit.
Rodgers looked good today, as he usually does. Matthews looked great, and looks like he will eventually develop into an elite OLB, and Jenkins looked great as well.
Rodgers looked great. Matthes
I think you hit the nail on the head
Talent wise, we’re right there with the Vikings.
What we lack is the consistency and veteran leadership.
What was with Kendall's shaved head?....looks like a fist with eyes.
scsteve (Pirates fan)
Correction: Jason Kendall IS a fist with eyes.
Derek (Brewers fan)
Talent wise
The Packers are nowhere near the talent of the Vikings. The defensive secondary is the only place the Packers have the edge. Otherwise, Offense, overall defense, special teams… the Vikings are the better team.
The difference between the Vikings and the Packers talent starts with the ownership’s and TT’s philosophy that trades or free agency are spaces the Packers will not play in. The Vikings needed a left OG, so they went out and got Steve Hutchinson. They needed a DE, so they went after Jared Allen. They needed a deep threat, so they signed Bernard Berrian. Antoine Winfield, Madieu Williams, Ryan Longwell, Chester Taylor, Ben Leber, Darren Sharper, Visanthe Shiancoe, Pat Williams and Brett Favre. The list is long and the talent is undeniable.
The difference also extends to draft choices. While Aaron Rodgers and Chip Matthews are great young players, the Vikings have consistently been willing to hang onto their top draft choices to land elite players. The Packers have traded down to land more volumes of good players. Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin, Kevin Williams, Chad Greenway, and Bryant McKinnie, are great examples of the Vikings keeping and drafting first round picks that are making an impact.
I don’t think the Packers talent is bad. But there is more of a difference than experience can explain.
come on
The only place we have the edge is the defensive secondary? Our wr corps is much better then the Vikings and I believe Rodgers is a better Qb then Favre. You put Rodgers behind that line, and there would be people raving about him. As for the other positions I would give the Vikes a slight edge in most besides the Rb and O-line.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
I'll admit that Rodgers is very good, but not better than Favre.
From Michael Lombardi on NFL.com:
“Yes, Favre has been magnificent in both games vs. his former team, throwing for seven touchdowns and no interceptions. Still, he had help. Favre wasn’t sacked in either contest while Aaron Rodgers went down 14 times. You will have to dig deep into the statistical archives to find a team winning games with a minus-14 in sack differential. Imagine if Favre had stayed in Green Bay and Rodgers went to the Minnesota. The outcome of both games would most certainly be the same. The Vikings’ offensive line dominates the game, therefore the offense functions at a high level with an effective quarterback. For the Packers, focusing on Favre beating them is a mistake. He played a role, but the offensive line was the difference in the season sweep. Until the Packers fix their blocking, they will not be able to beat the Vikings on any field.”
I hope you enjoy that quote as much as I did. Look, I agree that Rodgers is a alented QB. To say he’s better than Favre right now is a stretch. Notice, I am not saying Favre is better than Rodgers either.
I don’t agree that the GB receivers are better than the Vikings receivers, but they are more well known. I have always like Donald Driver alot. Personally I think the jury is out on Greg Jennings. Like Sydney Rice, time will tell how good they both are.
They're only better
if you look at silly things like stats, or careers
"Are we doing everything we can to win games, or are we doing everything we can to run a certain thing that we want to run? I want to win, and I want to do whatever it takes to win. At some point you have to take the handcuffs off and let the boys play." - Cullen Jenkins 11/01/09
By that definition
Brett Favre is way better than Aaron Rodgers then if stats and career are the only things you look at. I knew that I’d get grief for saying that the Packer recevers are not better than the Vikings. Let me explain.
I think Donald Driver is the most talented receiver on either team. But if you compare him Minnesota’s most productive reciver:
Driver: 33 receptions, 542 yards, 3 TDs
Rice: 37 receptions, 585 yards, 2 TDs
Sydney has played one more game than Donald so that comparison isn’t necessarily fair. And yet if you measure the Packers receiver group as a whole against the Vikings receiver group:
GB: 77 receptions, 1250 yds, 156.3 yds/gm, 16.2 yds/catch, 8 TDs
MN: 98 receptions, 1312 yds, 164 yds/gm, 13.4 yds/catch, 9 TDs
Notice the yards per game stat. The difference is small, but Vikings WRs are contributing more yards per game than Packers receivers. Both QBs spread the ball around quite a bit and no doubt could use their WRs more. But I would suggest that the Viking receivers have played tougher pass defenses so far this year than the Packers have. That would include the Packers pass defense twice, the Ravens, and the Steelers.
There is another difference in depth. The Packers have Driver and Jennings. After that it drops off fast with Nelson and Jones. The Vikings go three deep with Rice, Harvin, and Berrian before the drop off to Lewis and Johnson.
Packallday said the GB Receiver Corp is better than the Vikings. While you have the best receiver in Driver, I don’t agree that the GB receivers are better than the Vikings receivers when you compare the two as groups.
Except Donald Driver
isn’t the most talented WR we have, its easily Greg Jennings. While the stats this year may not show it, thats why I said careers also. Green Bay has better receivers than Minnesota
"Are we doing everything we can to win games, or are we doing everything we can to run a certain thing that we want to run? I want to win, and I want to do whatever it takes to win. At some point you have to take the handcuffs off and let the boys play." - Cullen Jenkins 11/01/09
They don't charge you anymore for being wrong on this website Cracka
So at least your opinion won’t cost you anything. Now in his fourth year, Jennings has had one season worthy of comparison to Driver. And while Jennings had his career highs in 2008, his numbers weren’t close to the NFL leaders in catches or yardage. Now he looks like he’s regressing a little this year. He’s a good receiver, but Driver has been and is a great receiver.
Since the Packers only have two main wide receivers they like to go to, both Jenning’s and Driver’s stats should be higher than teams that spread the ball evenly to 3 WRs. I don’t care about that at all. The Vikings WR corps is just as productive as the GB WR Corps.
The way I measure it the WR groups are a push.
I can see how you'd think you were right
with all this Favreness going to your head, he can make bad receivers look decent. But given that the Vikings haven’t had a 1000 yard receiver in how many years?
I mean, a push, really? You can charge me whatever you want and say how wrong I am but I think its obvious to everyone who can read that the Packers group of WR is better than the Vikings group of WR. Measure it however you want.
Also, I said Greg Jennings is more talented. I didn’t say he was necessarily better or had a better career.
"Are we doing everything we can to win games, or are we doing everything we can to run a certain thing that we want to run? I want to win, and I want to do whatever it takes to win. At some point you have to take the handcuffs off and let the boys play." - Cullen Jenkins 11/01/09
We just disagree
Craka: “I can see how you’d think you were right with all this Favreness going to your head, he can make bad receivers look decent.”
The antithesis of that is true also. The QBs the Vikes WRs have had throwing to them the past few years could make anyone look bad.
I think the two units are fairly equal this year. There is one thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this string yet. The Packers are paper thin at the WR position. You have to be hoping that Driver and Jennings can stay healthy for the rest of the season. That has to be a concern.
are you saying that
Perry Harvon is better than Chip Matthews?
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Harvin and Matthews
Too early to tell who will make the bigger contribution over a career. I’d call them equally talented right now. I do think Harvin has a great chance to win the NFL ROY award.
That comment coming from
the idiot pointing a gun at his own head in his profile picture. You remind me of Charles Manson in that photograph. I am glad that I don’t live close to you.
A smiling Vike!
You played a great game Packers! You never gave up! As a lifelong Viking and Cubs fan I won’t commence to bragging yet. But I think the Vikes have a superior o-line, and that, plus Harvin, may have been the difference today. I enjoyed reading all your comments Pack, and hang in there for maybe a wild card spot. I think all the offensive weapons Farve has around him this year has helped his decision making (der ya think?) , but put these tools around Rodgers and he’d be in the top five as well.
You THINK the Viking have a superior O-Line?
I would say you are right on with your thinking and calling it superior is an understatement.
Ah,
but Rodgers is already in the top five.
That’s how freaking talented he is.
And that’s why I’ll never understand all the angst over trading Favre.
Put Favre behind this OL and The Streak is probably already over.
Put Rogers behind the Vikings OL and he’s the second coming of Peyton Manning.
Put Rogers behind the Vikings OL and he’s the second coming of Peyton Manning.
Exactly!!!
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
I appreciate your passion but...
Uh , P Manning, Brees, McNabb. Warner, Farve, whats’s his face for the Steelers, and, uh, Tarkington are arguably the top quarterbacks right now but I agree Rodgers has talent but little time!
Haha um?
What? Tarkington? Warner? What’s his face from the Steelers? Have you watched any NFL football this year? Rodgers is a top Qb in this league.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
lol
I was just giving you the business packallday. I was too lazy to look up how to spell Roethlisberger anyway I admit Rodgers is excellent, but in my mind the top three are P Manning, Brees, and Tom Brady. There’s a very high chance of one of those three playing in the Superbowl. My Tarkington comment was a sad attempt at humor. Take care.
You have the right QB, but give him a few years to be Peyton, please. He could start by beating the Vikes this year….if nothing else, at least at home.
jackass
"Unforgettable images: Arthur Blank pushing Vick's wheelchair; Brad Childress as chauffeur to Favre.''
-- latimesfarmer, Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times, after the Vikings coach picked up Favre and wife Deanna at the St. Paul Airport for the 30-minute ride to the Minnesota training facility.
Haha
He doesn’t need a few years. All he needs is a good o-line.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
There is only one question:
Can the Packers improve over the last 9 games?
Right now the Packers are a step behind the Vikings. I’m guessing they would also lose to the Saints and maybe the Giants, Eagles, Cowboys and Falcons.
Conventional wisdom is that the 3-4 defense takes about a year to learn, so I suppose that there will be some incremental improvement along the way. The offensive line might benefit from the returns of Tauscher and Clifton. Will it be enough to overtake the teams in front of them? Or would the other teams need to fade?
To answer
I think we’re a step behind the Vikings and Saints. Aside from those two, every other team has really looked up and down, just like we have.
The defense is ok, we just need to stop the stupid penalties. Keep in mind, it’s awfully hard to stop an offense as good as the Vikes when they start in our territory the majority of the game.
The key is going to be the o-line. Honestly there isn’t much of a difference between Lang and Clifton. But I have to think that there would be a huge difference Barbre and Tauscher. Barbre has to be the worse starting RT in the league, and is probably worse then some of the back-up RT’s out there. I am praying to God that we get Tauscher out there asap.
But as we saw today, if we can give Rodgers time, we can be very effective. It’s also a great sign that Jennings appeared to finally have a coming out game. I think we can still get the wildcard but it will be very difficult to do.
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Barbre
Definitely heard 78 called too often tonight when something bad happened, so I also would like to see Tausch in there soon.
Also, hopefully, we get Jordy and Finley back soon, since I had to do a double take when Jake Allen lined up. The Finley injury may also turn out to be a blessing in disguise as we seem to have discovered another weapon in Spencer Havner because of it.
Ugh
A couple of disturbing things— 1) why does McChicken keep trying 50+ yrd field goes when he talks about field position all the time. It was Third quarter we had momentum going—- why not pin them back deep? Why the Field goal There was time and we were within 7. I don’t get why he didn’t punt. He has done this a few times this year.2) Why is McChicken always going for the home run?? Where were the short throws??
All you Vikings/Farve haters
What is your damn problem?
Are you just completely jealous that Brett Favre and the Vikings are a better team than the time you like? Give this team its due, it is their time and they deserve it. Yes they have the best running back in the league. A few teams passed him up in the draft because he had some “so called baggage” Excuse me that is you teams fault for not reading between the lines to see a very good player and attitude. They added Allen a year ago and they again saw someone that they thought was very good. Percy Harvin, what a weapon, he makes Special teams “ROCK!”
This game against the packers was a blow out all the way. Take away the 2 freebies the Vikings gave them and the game wasn’t even close. A defensive lineman catching a kick off just got anxious and wanted to contribute. “He fumbled” the packers didn’t make the game close. If anybody thought the Packers were going to win after those 2 quick scores you are fooling yourself. They are nowhere near the Caliber of team like the Vikings. With Brett Favre at Quarterback they are only getting better each week. B.F “another player the Vikings thought was still very good, but the packers let go” That was a sad seen at Packers stadium today. Brett gave the packers 16 years of a very unselfish player and a player that loves the game. That alone is a rarity, and they booed him too much. I could see it at first because that is a normal situation to show your teams support. But they kept it up and said negative things throughout the game. Did Brett quit on Green bay? No they tried to buy him out and force him to retire. He loves the game and wanted to keep playing. Look at him when he throws a TD, he gets so exited and jumps around like a little kid in sports. That is rare and Green Bay should cherish the years he gave them.
The Vikings should be rooted for because we need to beat the AFC and only a very good team will do that and the Vikings by playoff time could be that TEAM.
Don't you have anything better to do with your time?
And I would not call 38-26 a “blowout.” And we booed him too much? How about you, as I recall, you booed him for 16 years. Now it’s not okay for us to boo him?
I would expect nothing more classy from someone who redefined the term “The Love Boat.”
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
What a crock of sh-t! Yeah, we booed him…he was on the other team!! What about James Lofton in the stairwell? It was smothered back then. I was in a certain small town in WI during the Favre “early days” and witnessed he and Chmura doing things which would have rivaled the loveboat.
If you booed him then,
Then please don’t tell us not to boo him. How long have you liked him? 16 years? And then he went to a divisional rival?
The way you’re acting here is very hypocritical.
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 2, 2009 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
P.S.:
You’re welcome to take your enlightened positions elsewhere.
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 2, 2009 1:13 AM CST up reply actions
I'm calling as many penalties as the officals do against the Packers
battlekow: Bill is having an oppo-gasm
All you Viking/(Farve) haters What is your damn problem?
well, we ARE packer fans…
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
Obvious troll is obvious...
If you are truly a new member, cool.
But if you have to make a new account just to troll the Packer blogs, reveals a lot of character. Man up if you are going to spit stupidity.
Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge
by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Deserve what?
What do they deserve!? This team hasn’t accomplished squat but a 7-1 record, so if you can stop prematurely ejaculating over a 7-1 record, you can try to comprehend that recognition is only obtained in January.
In the meantime you can help garner respect for your team and its fan base if you do not post such ignorant rubbish, as you are sullying the integrity of your organization by your association.
"Did Brett quit on Green Bay"
Yes. Retire = Quit
Or haven’t you read everything that’s been written about that? Go and review it again, get the timeline straight.
Pull your head out of your ass.
What was with Kendall's shaved head?....looks like a fist with eyes.
scsteve (Pirates fan)
Correction: Jason Kendall IS a fist with eyes.
Derek (Brewers fan)
I don't think he can do that.
His head is too far up. It’s beyond hope.
Ready 4 Revenge against The Traitor!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 1, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
QB Brett Favre sure was pumped up beating his old team. I lost whatever respect I had left for him after that one. He wasn’t supposed to throw the game
Are you seriously saying you would respect him more if he didn’t try to win?!?!
Sorry … does not compute. Harte Brett Favre all you wanted, but THAT is the Dumbest Reason Ever to do it.
it does compute if you think about it.
They’re not thinking clearly right now. They need a few days to soak it all in.
Yes, my impression too
I was surprised a bit. Not all the way there yet, but he’s making great strides.
Yeah
He had a few slip ups but for the most part he looked pretty good.
by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 1:09 AM CST up reply actions
It's over
..the NFC North will be won by the Viqueens again …
Note to the Packers offense, the game started at 3.15, not two hours later, the first half is NOT for warmups, that has to happen before the game starts !
But Packers didn’t loose this one, they just ran out of time….
Defense:
I think the defense did a pretty good job in the first half, holding Viqueens to only 17 points while the offense were goofing off, but they shoved way to much respect for Favre and the Viqueens O-line, once they started blitzing and stunting, they were getting pressure on Favre. They didn’t stuff A.P like in the first game, but they still held him under 100 yds, which is decent.
Offense:
The first half looked more like warmups. They were not executing anything, and sacks #1,2 and 4 is directly on Rodgers holding the ball too long.
In the 2nd half, they started executing, Rodgers started to do things right, dropback, set-up and then throw without secondguessing if the receiver would be open, he trusted them to be that, and then the rush could not get to him, the Viqueens saw their swiss cheese pass defense exposed, and started to drop more players to coverage instead of blitzing. This gave our O-line a chance to focus on the front 4, and they did a good job protecting Rodgers after that. T.J Lang shoved his potential, but I still want Clifton back, as for Barbre… cut,cut cut ! and start Tauscher now !
The running game has to improve, when your QB outrushes your RBs put together, it’s bad, and most of Rodgers rushing was that one 35 yd gain. Ok, they played from behind most of the game, and probably abandoned the runninggame abit.
Special teams. Not a great game, but they forced that all important fumble in the 3rd qtr, which fired up the offense, that compensates for all the bad stuff !
Coaches :
The game plan looked terrible, just let Brett Favre sit back an pick us apart like that ! why ? their offensive line is not as good as the media wants them to be, that was proven by the Steelers last week, and by the Packers in the 2nd half.
It can not have been a surprise that the Viqueens would come after Rodgers early. I should not be a surprise the Viqueens pass D has more holes than swiss cheese, so why not call your plays accordingly ? Isolate their weakest CB, both Driver and Jennings are great wrs, and there are about a 100 moves you can make for a quick 1 or 3 step drop back, slants, bubble screen, hitch…. when they started working on the weakspot it payed of, either by a solid gain or dpi calls (or great TD cactches..) They need to start that from the first snap, not way into the 3rd qtr.
Penatlywise, it got better, but it’s still a problem, but we also go a little lucky, there was one play they could have called a holding on Barbre that they didn’t, and I have no clue why they missed that facemask by Al Harris on Favres 4th TD pass …
As for the Viqueens, they wouldn’t be jack s**t without Favre, it would be easier to stop A.P if you don’t have to worrie about the pass. There’s no way Rosenfelds or Jackson could make 75% of the throws Favre made yesterday, heck, they would not even attempt half of them.
Favre still has his bionic arm, he reads defenses in his sleep, he moves the coverage with his eyes and pumpfakes, and still at age 40, he has the moves to make defenders miss.
The Vikings have only played half of their divisional games
To say that it’s over is an incorrect statement. It’s essentially over for the Packers to win it, yes. The Bears can play as well as the Packers if they want to, and who knows what shape the Vikings will be in at the end of the month.
Bears
It’s possible that the Bears could still win the division, but i don’t think it’s very likely. With the loss to the Packers in Week 1 and both teams going 2-0 against the Lions, they’d have to beat the Vikings twice. I’ll go out on a limb and say that the Vikings should win at home, though beating them at Soldier Field will be more difficult. Still, i’d expect them to win there, too. Lovie has done well against Favre, but i don’t know if he has the horses to do it again this year.
The Bears are somewhat of a mystery with that win against the Steelers, even if the Steelers are not last year’s team. Didn’t see that game, however, so i’m not sure what the whole story is. The Bears are a lot like the Packers, with a horrible o-line and no running game and a defense that doesn’t quite get it done.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Nov 2, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Right, but like I said...
Who knows what shape the Vikings are in at the end of the Month. Maybe AP or JA goes down to injury. The Vikings secondary has already shown they can give up big plays, which Chicago is at least capable of making.
Remember: they don’t play for another 4 weeks. That’s 3 weeks of games where any number of things can happen to the Vikings. No one is immune to injuries in this league.
I agree with all of this
Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok
Get over yourself, Brandon
Not providing locker room wall quotes just makes good sense. An experienced, veteran quarterback knows that.
by aladdinwa on Nov 2, 2009 7:28 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I just don't get it....
I’m new to the board and completely shocked by all the hate speak between Vikes/Packers fans.
I always cheered for the Packers in seasons when the Vikes didn’t make the payoffs…
Why would I want a non NFC North team to beat the pack??
Always hated every other QB opposing the Vikes (Steve Young, etc) but for some reason, I liked Favre. I wanted to hate him and believe me, I can “hate” with the best of em.
I just don’t understand how can you hate BF so much after what he did for GB?
not even WHAT he did but better yet, HOW he did it when he played for you guys??
Football&Hunting
he went
to the vikings. I just don’t get how this is hard to understand?
"Are we doing everything we can to win games, or are we doing everything we can to run a certain thing that we want to run? I want to win, and I want to do whatever it takes to win. At some point you have to take the handcuffs off and let the boys play." - Cullen Jenkins 11/01/09
Dum Capers
Green Bay residents need to petition the city to outlaw 3 man rushes inside the city limits. 3rd and 17, we’ll rush 3, and Favre will never be able to figure this outstanding defense out. That series in the 3rd QTR Vikes get 70 yards on 2 plays, the overall scheme in Vikes game 1 and 2, until Favre humiliated Capers he would not send the wild blitz packages that always limit Favre’s output. Capers is a dud
Farve retiring again not a problem
We have a unique situation here in Minnesota, we haven’t had a “regular” quarterback since Tommy Kraemer. I could go through the laundry list of castaway and leftover QB’s we let rejuvenate they’re careers here but I can’t remember them all. Brett Farve has done as well if not better than Randall Cunningham as far as showing everyone that if you put a “real” team behind me I can still get it done. So if Brett does good for us this year, the door will always be open to come back- even if you want to show up in September ,October or January!
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