The Day After Dallas: Injuries, Challenges, Punting, and Brad Jones

by Brandon on Nov 17, 2009 7:15 AM CST in News Comment 50 comments

Injuries, Injuries, injuires...from Mike McCarthy:

Cullen Jenkins had some ankle swelling. He'll probably miss some practice time this week. Desmond Bishop also had an ankle sprain. He'll probably miss some practice time. Greg Jennings had a knee contusion. He'll miss some practice time. And John Kuhn had a broken hand, and we'll see what he'll be able to do this week. With that, I'll take your questions.

The only injury he mentioned in his post-game press conference was LG Daryn Colledge's ankle bruise, but Colledge returned to the game at few plays later. The three guys who missed the Dallas game, RT Mark Tauscher, TE Jermichael Finley, and LB Aaron Kampman, are all expected back at practice this week. A lot of guys are banged up, and there's still 7 regular season games to go.

According to Rob Demovsky, the Packers should have been assessed a 15 yard penalty after McCarthy tried a 3rd challenge. I admit I hadn't noticed. The Cowboys got down to the 1 yard line anyway, and were stopped when QB Tony Romo threw a INT to CB Charles Woodson, so I'm not sure it would have mattered.

P Jeremy Kapinos is a great punter, in practice, says special teams coach Shawn Slocum. Slocum better be careful, praising P Derrick Frost's practice skills didn't help Mike Stock keep his job after last season. I haven't been a big critic of Kapinos because he's not as bad as Frost and I doubt they'd find anyone better at this point. Still, he's one of the worst punters in the NFL and the Packers will have to bring in some serious competition next season. For the remainder of this season, Greg Bedard suggested P Sam Paulescu, but he was bad last season in Dallas with a 41.8 yard average, compared to a 44.2 yard average for Kapinos. His net average is even worse, but the punt coverage deserves a lot of blame for it.

In his 1st NFL start, LB Brad Jones had 7 tackles and 1 for a loss. I'm a big fan of his, but I was disappointed he couldn't bring more of a pass rush against the Cowboys' backup RT. A good game, but those are LB A.J. Hawk type numbers. So I'm surprised that the comments are praising Jones, McCarthy has been asked whether Kampman remains the starter, and Tom Silverstein writes about Jones's emergence.

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Brad Jones

I think the that so many are pleased with Jones owes to fact that most players don’t perform at veteran level on their first NFL start, especially when that comes in Big Game situations. I’m not sure that he was necessarily designated as a blitzer all that often. I suspect he was in coverage more often than not. That may be why he didn’t generate the pressure you had hoped for.

The Cowboys are a balanced offense, normally. The aggressive blitzing by Capers shows his high confidence in all his personnel, especially since many of them weren’t disguised all that much. Each player you send on a blitz opens up a hole for the offense to exploit. That his linebackers in coverage limited Romo’s ability to check down favorably reflects well on Jones (and everyone else).

I am beginning to wonder if there is another reason we haven’t seen this type of defense much since Week 1. Despite the excitement of watching a good blitz as a fan, it is a very dangerous move. Any extra men used to blitz cannot be used in pass coverage. That usually means the flats are open.

Zone blitzing manages that risk by moving any combination of linebacker, corner, or safety into the middle to prevent check-downs to tight ends (like Witten) or running backs with good hands. It’s obviously a problem to do this with linebackers who are questionable coverage backs, as the opposing QB will target them.

Now, imagine Witten against Kampman, one-on-one in the flats…you get the idea. Politically, it is going to be very tough for Capers to bench Kampman, but his injury and Jones’s skillset provided an opportunity to return to the zone blitz for a game. I suspect this why Capers has been so circumspect about explaining his play calling. I also suspect that this is what Woodson was obliquely referring to when we lost to the Vikings (his “we have tools we are not using” remark).

As fans, we’ve been clamoring for more zone blitzing (ala preseason) and more Kampman. We cannot have both. So which one should do we prefer? You can probably guess my vote. ;-)

I really don’t want to start a flame war, but I am curious to hear what you all are thinking.

by WisconsInExile on Nov 17, 2009 8:06 AM CST via mobile reply actions 2 recs

I meant to add...

I also seem to remember the RT getting some help. I remember, in the late-3rd quarter or 4th, being surprised to see Witten blocking instead of attacking the middle on a number of plays. Romo also started rolling out the pocket more often.

by WisconsInExile on Nov 17, 2009 8:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Great points

And I think your suspicions about Capers play calling and Kampman’s effect on them are spot on. Though I love Kampman I think we need to go with Jones. With him in there our defense actually was unpredictable which was the whole point of bringing Capers in.

by packallday555 on Nov 17, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In his 1st NFL start, LB Brad Jones had 7 tackles and 1 for a loss. I’m a big fan of his, but I was disappointed he couldn’t bring more of a pass rush against the Cowboys’ backup RT. A good game, but those are LB A.J. Hawk type numbers.

so….your saying 7 tackles is a bad thing? or, just ho-hum average? What’s16 games x 7 ? I’ll take that from a first start rookie any day.

by Squatbulk on Nov 17, 2009 8:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think his point is that people are too hard on Hawk. The same people ragging on Hawk for a performance like that are jumping up and down with joy when Jones does it. The response will be something about expectations but either way, it was a very nice and unexpected performance from the rook.

by TrevorR on Nov 17, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tackles as a stat

Just aren’t that impressive. Hawk will have 8 tackles one game, and 4 tackles the next. But it doesn’t mean he’s half as good. Also, Jones didn’t record any stats other than tackles: no INTs, pass defenses, sacks, or forced fumbles. So it was a good game, but he didn’t play like a difference maker either. So talk of replacing Kampman for Jones seemed misguided since Kampman has obviously been a big playmaker during his career.

by Brandon on Nov 17, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the replacing Kampman with Jones idea is ludicrous.

but you’’re going to be critical of a rookie starting his 1st game because he*didn’t record any stats other than tackles: no INTs, pass defenses, sacks, or forced fumbles.* ?

I strongly disagree.

by Squatbulk on Nov 18, 2009 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure

anyone is calling for Kampman to be straight up benched in favor of Jones (at least I’m not) but to deny that Jones played better in coverage than Kampman ever has is just not being observant. Kampman needs to be on the field but pass coverage just isn’t his strength. And to Brandon’s point that

So talk of replacing Kampman for Jones seemed misguided since Kampman has obviously been a big playmaker during his career.

I would point out that Kampman is playing a different position now and that has be taken into account. In no way should Kampman be benched completely, but in no way should he be on the field all the time at his current position because at another position in a different scheme he was a playmaker. That doesn’t make sense to me.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 18, 2009 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And surely it can't be denied

that Kampman in pass defence is analogous to lying back and spreading our legs? If I were a QB, soon as I saw him drop back there’d be a big bell clanging in my head…

by rudi on Nov 18, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kampman

I like Jones but I still think the best way for this team to win this season is with Kampman on the field. They need to find a way to hide him in coverage and allow him to be aggressive rushing the passer. Kampman has been the second best player on the D for several years and I don’t see a way that the the success will continue without his contribution down the stretch.

by Dogg Pound on Nov 17, 2009 9:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I wonder

If they could rotate in Kampman in both the LOLB and LDE positions depending on the situation. When its a passing down, put him on the line with his hand down, when its a running down let him out there in LB position to key in on the run so he’s not such a liability in the passing game. Thoughts?!

by TrevorR on Nov 17, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

the problem with that is that the DE in a 3-4 isn’t designed to be providing a pass rush as much as they are taking up blockers. I’m not saying they can’t provide a pass rush, but we aren’t complaining if they aren’t getting to the passer consistently like we are when on OLB isn’t getting there. Assuming they are in a 3-4 in a passing situation, our ends are Jenkins and Jolly with Pickett in the middle. I don’t want to take either guy off the field regularly the way they both are playing this year, even if it is to allow Kampman to do what he does best. However, in most passing situations we aren’t in a 3-4 as much as we are in 2-4-5 with just two down lineman rushing the passer, both from the inside. I wouldn’t want Kampman lining up inside regularly either. His best assets are his speed and his motor, which I think would be negated somewhat going against primarily guards. He certainly presents a quandary for us as to how to effectively use him.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 17, 2009 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

have to do this

Capers has to lean towards this rotation, but kind of obvious what you are you doing/thinking when AK goes in as a LOLB (i.e. we think you guys are running). Use him as a 3rd down specialist because in the 4th quarter he will start piling on sacks due to RT being tired. Plus, 4-3 teams will still see he is valuable at the end of the year.

AK is a fantastic Packer and deserves respect, but I would rather have the best players on the field compared to NOT hurting AK’s feelings.

by Acme on Nov 17, 2009 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

AK is a fantastic Packer and deserves respect, but I would rather have the best players on the field compared to NOT hurting AK’s feelings.

Exactly.

I’m not sure the 3rd down specialist thing you mention is a good fit though, for the reasons I mention above. In most 3rd down situations we are in a 2-4-5 with Matthews and the other OLB generally rushing the passer, but sometimes either Matthews or the other OLB drop into coverage when we send Hawk/Barnett or a CB or S. We can’t tip what we are doing that much that Jones is only in when we are blitzing from elsewhere and Kampman is only in when he is rushing. I think the bottom line is either that Kampman needs to improve his ability in coverage or we have to find other creative ways to involve him this year. I’ve always loved Kampman but he just doesn’t fit the scheme very well.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 17, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

use AK in the Nickel

AK is well suited for the nickel, which uses four down lineman.

I suspect this accounts for why Capers calls more plays out of the nickel than he does from base in many games. Of course, when he does this, he is not utilizing Hawk (who gets a bad rap for low production, unfairly I think).

by WisconsInExile on Nov 17, 2009 4:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Hawk really has excelled for us out of our base defense. He and Barnett were both pretty effective blitzing up the middle.

by packallday555 on Nov 17, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So true

I could really get used to seeing that SkyCam shot of Barnett and/or Hawk busting through the line and chasing down QB’s.

by WisconsInExile on Nov 17, 2009 7:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Me too

It seemed like Hawk just let loose yesterday out there. When he has previously struggled it’s looked like he is thinking out there too much, which causes him to be a bit hesitant. He didn’t play that way Sunday.

by packallday555 on Nov 17, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My Proposal

On obvious passing downs, we rarely, if ever, disguise our blitz. You know Kampmann is coming from the left side with his hand in the dirt and Matthews is coming from the right side. I think Capers should just go to the standard 4 defensive linemen in these situations givings Matthews a break.
LE- Kampmann
DT- Raji
DT- Jolly
RE- Jenkins

I can see an argument in putting Matthews on the outside, but Matthews is a huge playmaker for our D in stopping the run while Jenkins can still apply the pass rush we need to be successfull on passing downs. I thinks it’s a good substitute for Clay Matthews and Ryan Pickett.

by Jabooty on Nov 17, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Won't happen

What this basically would be is our 2-4-5, expect Matthews is the RE and Jenkins and Raji/Jolly are in the middle. The only thing is we appeared to be much more effective on passing downs lining up with 3 down lineman in a dime package. When we did this on Sunday, it was Jenkins, Raji, and Jolly as the down lineman. I think what we should do, and will do is replace Jolly with Kampman.

Having those 3 on the line, along with some of Capers blitz packages would be very effective. Raji looks like he is almost at 100%, and he has been playing like it. The Cowboys double teamed him many teams because when they didn’t he was simply tossing their C aside. When they started to do this, it made it much easier for our blitz packages to work, and is a lot of the reason we had people coming afte

r Romo untouched some of the time.

by packallday555 on Nov 17, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Accoridng to Football Outsiders

Kampman is leading the leage in QB hits with 13, so it is not like he is completly useless in the role he has had.

"You are only a success at the moment that you do a successful act"
-Tex Winter

by stork02 on Nov 17, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

That is a shocker. Never would have expected that. Thanks for the info.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 17, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

total shocker

by Acme on Nov 17, 2009 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

It seems shocking but Kampman has been getting good pressure pretty much all year. He just hasn’t been racking up the sacks so it doesn’t seem like he has been doing much.

by packallday555 on Nov 17, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well there ya go...

I guess all of our whining is unwarranted! Thanks! :-)

by TrevorR on Nov 18, 2009 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Westbrook

I wonder if they hold him out again citing the Brian Westbrook example. Tough to see a great player have another concussion.

Plus this gives the coaches a chance to Jones again.

by Acme on Nov 17, 2009 12:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Coverage is the difference...

the reason why the defense improved (without Kampman) is that Kampman is such a liability in the pass, when he has to cover the opposing running back, it’s terrible (that was Tampa’s first touchdown) and if you only have him in to rush the passer, then he becommes one dimensional and Capers doesn’t have the flexibility to move his pieces more freely (as Silverstein pointed out)

McCarthy has to make the tough choice…I think it should be Jones.

by PackFaninFL on Nov 17, 2009 12:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jones vs Vernon

Vernon Davis is a very good, fast TE.

We HAVE to play Jones against SF.

Alex Smith is horrible under pressure, but if he has Vernon going against Kampman he will have an outlet all day long. Vernon runs a 4.3-4.4 40yd. AK will get smoked.

SF has a solid defense, but they have only beaten really poor teams – AZ was flat first game, SEA, STL and Chicago (amazing how bad they are). Manny Lawson and Patrick Willis are fantastic players, along with their NT.

Gore is a beast, but we don’t want Smith to get any confidence.

by Acme on Nov 17, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

great point

Jones will need to play a bunch or we will have to play a bunch of zone and hope that Davis doesn’t find a soft spot.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 17, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Vernon

Against the cowpukes, Woodson was often covering Witten cuz he is the best reciever. Who do you think the assignment for covering Vernon Davis will fall to? (Hint- It won’t be Kampman OR Jones…) Woodson will be covering Davis to start the game and Harris will play Press vs. Crabbytree. Crab has NEVER seen a CB play press like Harris! Davis will get taken out of the game by Wood.

When they then show they have Gore under wraps, like they did vs the cowpukes RB’s, Capers will bring the house down on Smith!!!

Makes no sense to blitz heavily early and give Gore a chance to bust big runs. Soon as he is controlled, you bring the kitchen sink w/ blitz!!!

by Strohman on Nov 17, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Hopefully the O can find the endzone to speed up the 49ers baling on the run.

"You are only a success at the moment that you do a successful act"
-Tex Winter

by stork02 on Nov 17, 2009 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

as good as Woodson was

lets not forget that Miles Austin was more or less shut down.

rmlumley.com

by shaftr on Nov 17, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Austin is really not THAT good but he was getting matched up with #3 and 4 WRs and he was more talented than they were. Once he’s been getting the top corners, his numbers have come dramatically down.

by TrevorR on Nov 18, 2009 7:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not THAT good

I completely disagree. I can’t remember if it was Asante Samuel, Sheldon Brown or whoever, but two pretty good CB’s who just played the Cowboys not too long ago both had some great things to say about him. One of them said he was one of the best WR’s he’s ever had to defend and another one said he is the hardest WR he has ever had to try to tackle. That is pretty high praise.

by GGGamer on Nov 18, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well I guess time will tell. He’s been with the team for years and hasn’t been able to push Williams or Crayton from the starting job until now. I like him but he’s got to show me a LOT more before I give him too much credit. All his big numbers have been against 3/4 corners for teams. He may become a GREAT WR…not saying he can’t I just haven’t totally bought it yet.

by TrevorR on Nov 19, 2009 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep!

Great points. The game plan should work just like that! It’s definitely a huge plus for us to have a player like Woodson who is versatile. It helps our coverage but it also allows for Williams to play a lot on the outside where he is pretty good.

by packallday555 on Nov 17, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry

I can see what you are saying, but Vernon is a MUCH better athlete than Witten. He is faster and stronger than C-Wood. Witten is smarter (which isn’t hard, Vernon is a moron).

Needs to be a combo of OLB and CB/Safety. Having AK in as OLB will cause some problems for us.

I was sure we would lose to Dallas last week and am (unfortunately) more confident heading into the SF game. Hopefully I don’t jinx the Pack.

I live in the Bay Area and the folks here love Singletary but are really fed up with the offense. Nobody has faith in the offense because they are so predictable and Alex Smith started well but has gone backwards each game he has started. I really hope these young players on the Packers keep it up and get off this ‘up and down’ performance rollercoaster they have been on since 2008.

Remember beating Indy? We all thought they would win the next 3 or 4 games and then we sucked.

by Acme on Nov 17, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can see what you are saying, but Vernon is a MUCH better athlete than Witten. He is faster and stronger than C-Wood. Witten is smarter (which isn’t hard, Vernon is a moron).

Haha well if this is the case then we don’t have anybody who can guard him…I know Davis is athletic and big, but I have a hard time believing Woodson can’t cover him.

by packallday555 on Nov 17, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

smarter

Cwood is smarter of course. He will get an interception on Smith because he will bait him, but in a physical matchup Davis beats Cwood.

by Acme on Nov 17, 2009 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Vernon or Witten

I would want to defend Vernon Davis over Jason Witten any day of the week. Davis is a great track and field athlete, hence the great 40 yard dash time, but Witten is a far superior football player. If Woodson can shut down Witten, he can more than shut down Davis.

by GGGamer on Nov 18, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True but

just because Vernon Davis is a much better athlete than Witten doesn’t mean he’s better or more dangerous. Vernon Davis may be a workout warrior but that doesn’t translate to performance on the field. His stats plae in comparison to Witten’s. Davis may be an athletic freak out there but he’s never been able to turn that into production on the field. Don’t mean to make this into a Davis vs. Witten thing but I am saying that I would have no fear of Woodson playing Davis on Sunday.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 18, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jason Witten

The Packers did a great job shutting down Witten by putting Woodson on him. Obviously that all seemed to work out quite well. But Davis is no Witten, so I don’t expect they’ll do that again unless Barnett, or whatever LB is on Davis, is struggling.

by Brandon on Nov 17, 2009 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Davis

Who is better equipped to keep Davis under wraps? A LB or Woodson? Do any of the WR, who Woodson would be covering make any plays that put fear into the D?

Woodson did awesome vs Witten and is the best possible player on the Packers D to shut him down! I want NO part of Davis being covered by ANY Packer LB! Davis is just too fast and athletic.

Acme is right. Wood is going to bait Smith into another INT or two!

by Strohman on Nov 17, 2009 10:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

woodson will probably switch up between

shadowing Gore (mostly) then Davis. Gore is their main weapon.

by Squatbulk on Nov 18, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

shoot…I was hoping Gore was the only one that would gain yards! haha I don’t know that Woodson would be shadowing him though, that isn’t his forte when it comes to coverage. He’ll be on Crabtree and Davis I think

by TrevorR on Nov 18, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

when they play Minn

he keeps an eye on AP, who is in his own league. However, Gore catches well, and is their best big play threat. Coverage will change with down/distance & point lead.

by Squatbulk on Nov 19, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The best way to beat these power running teams is to score early and quick, while stopping their running game early and quick. When we have a comfortable lead, it will force the opponent to focus on their passing game to stage a comeback. The odds of SF doing that against GB is slim to none. If we keep SF in the game, it will be more difficult to beat them in the end. We need to force SF to pass. I don’t think that should be an issue though, because our Run D is very good this year.

by Jabooty on Nov 17, 2009 3:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly jabooty

If the Packers can put the first 10 points on the board early the 49ers will have to start throwing and the Packers can use the agressive style they used against Dallas. I think also what a lot of people don’t realize is the 49ers offensive ratio is almost 60/40 pass to run. People are thinking the 49ers are just gonna run, run, run, and run, and that isn’t the case. If the Packers can get up early, Smith is gonna have a very tough day.

by GGGamer on Nov 18, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes injuries

are a blessing in disguise. If not for Kampmans injury we would not of found Jone’s skills this early. And also Langs ability to play RT. I like Kampman but we should play him more in the three point stance. In the off season we could fanchise tag him and get some badly needed OT help. If I remember right Majkowski went down and Favre came in and the rest is history.

by cheddarhead on Nov 17, 2009 4:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs