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Around SBN: Guest Blogger: Juco All-American Answers Five Questions

Why Ryan Grant Isn't The Answer

Ryan Grant is an enigma of sorts.  He is a starting running back in the NFL, yet he is widely regarded as a player with above-average skills at best.  He is good at many things, but great at nothing.  Even his Scouts Inc. profile from ESPN.com shows how he is simultaneously impressive and limited. 

He doesn't have outstanding speed but runs well and has quickness and burst to hit the hole...He has good power to move the pile, but wouldn't be considered an explosive ball carrier...He has adequate hands as a target in the passing game but isn't dangerous in the open field after the catch.

To sum up Ryan Grant's career to this point: "meh."  He doesn't have the size of Brandon Jacobs, or the elusiveness of Adrian Peterson, or the power of Michael Turner, or the agility of LaDanian Tomlinson, or the vision of Ronnie Brown, or the afterburner speed of Chris Johnson.  He has those things in smaller amounts, but not enough to be considered special. 

Despite his rather pedestrian profile, Grant has respectible numbers over his 3-year career: 2654 yards, 15 touchdowns, and a ypc average of 4.3.  He has a reputation of being able to produce despite his physical limitations, and that reputation has dubbed him the main rusher on one of the few teams that does not employ a running-back-by-committee.

My question is this: Should Ryan Grant be the lone ball-carrier on the Packers?

Star-divide

In order to explore this question, we first have to look at the state of the running back position in Green Bay since 2007, when Grant burst onto the scene.  In 2007, Grant was behind the likes of Brandon Jackson, Vernand Morency, and DeShawn Wynn.  It took all the way until Week 8 (the Denver OT game) for Grant to establish himself in the Packer backfield, and even then it was only due to injuries to those in front of him.

In 2008, Grant was the unquestioned starter, and Jackson and Wynn were contributors.  That trend continued to this season, with a minor change in personnel.  DeShawn Wynn managed to find his way onto the injured reserve list (again), so former Packer Pro Bowler Ahman Green takes his place.  Despite his history, Green's addition does little to threaten Grant's job security; the starting job belongs to Ryan Grant until someone is added to the roster that can compete for the position.

While it might be remiss to dismiss Grant's 2007 campaign, I contend that he remained the starter simply because nobody else was good enough to take his place.  Brett Favre's 2007 season was as stellar as it was unexpected; defenses had to focus more on the pass, thus opening up running lanes.  Almost anybody could have put up decent numbers on that offense so long as they could run without getting winded.

While the story of the undrafted Notre Dame product breaking onto the scene is a popular one, players don't (or at least shouldn't) get paid based on backstory.  They get paid for performance; sometimes past, but more often projected.  Ryan Grant's major payday during the summer of 2007 was somewhat understated compared to the media frenzy that followed the team (and still does, as we saw from Sunday).  But make no mistake, Grant's new contract was based more on the past and less on the future.

From a PR standpoint, I understand why they gave Grant his money.  With all the tension pervading the Green Bay fanbase before the 2008 season, the organization needed to do something that the fans could agree upon.  What better way to ease that pressure than to extend the contract of a player who had just gained nearly 1,000 yards in half a season?  But from a talent and, more importantly, a projected performance standpoint, I think Grant is vastly overpaid. 

Let me be clear that I like Ryan Grant and want him on the team.  However, I don't think he is being properly used in the offense and the offense is being held back as a result.

Obviously, there's no way I can make these claims without at least attempting to back them up with factual evidence.  Therefore, I submit Exhibit A: Ryan Grant's career statistics, supplied by NFL.com.  NFL.com has a wonderful feature called "Situational Stats" that breaks down a player's numbers by more in-depth metrics than just per-game or per-carry.  These different metrics really show what kind of running back Grant is and why he's being mis-used.

* * *

The first one is dividing Grant's production by the number of attempts he receives.  NFL running backs typically carry the ball 20 times in a game.  The best way to break down a running back's production is to look at how many yards he gains on attempts 1 through 10, then how much he gains on 11 through 20, and finally anything above carry number 21.

 

Attempts

Yards

Average

TDs

1-10

352

1624

4.6

9

11-20

241

992

4.1

8

21+

75

298

4.0

1

As you can see, Grant's numbers start to take a dip once he gets past his tenth carry in a given game.  While I like to see coaches stick with the run throughout a game in order to get the back into a rhythm, Grant hasn't demonstrated the ability to maintain a consistent ability to get yards as the game wears on.  Another way to show this is to divide Grant's yardage totals by his career number of games.

Carries

Yards per game

1-10

46.4

11-20

28.3

21+

8.5

No wonder Mike McCarthy doesn't stick with the run.  Anytime Grant carries more than ten times, his yards gained for the second decuplet of carries is halved.  Halved!  For a back who's known for explosive gains throughout a game, it sure seems like he can't do much after his tenth attempt.

* * *

The second metric is simpler: it compares Ryan Grant's numbers in the first and second halves of games.  While it's more rudimentary, it better shows how consistent (or inconsistent) a back is throughout a game.

 

Attempts

Yards

Average

TDs

1st Half

367

1634

4.5

15

2nd Half

300

1278

4.3

3

Surprisingly, this breakdown doesn't show as big of a drop off in any category besides touchdowns.  He has fewer yards on fewer carries in the second half, which might be a result of the trailing team focusing more on the pass to ignite the offense.  By dividing his totals by his total number of games, however, the discrepancy is a bit more visible.

 

Attempts/game

Yards/game

1st Half

10.8

48.1

2nd Half

8.8

37.6

The carries per half are nearly even, but the yardage is not.  Again, this might be a result of the Packers being forced into passing on offense, but conventional wisdom suggests that there would be more available on the ground.  Grant has not found that room in the second half, even though he's getting the same opportunities.

* * *

The third metric is not available directly on NFL.com, but I went and dug up the stats from each individual box score from 2007, 2008, and 2009 to compile the numbers.  I don't have an official name for it yet, but it measures Grant's production based on what percentage of the team's carries he is responsible for.  I tried to quantify how well Grant performed when he received a minority of the carries (< 50%), a significant share (51-74%), and a majority (>75%).

% of team carries

Games

Attempts

Yards

Average

TDs

< 50%

5

36

215

6.0

1

51-74%

14

247

1118

4.5

6

> 75%

16

345

1351

3.9

8

While the discrepancies in sample sizes skews the numbers somewhat, it's clear that whenever Grant is more responsible for the rushing offense, he is less effective.  Workhorse backs often produce the best whenever they get the bulk of the carries from their offense, and that's how Grant has been treated.  However, the numbers simply don't support the notion that Grant needs a large amount of touches to be effective.  This is more obvious when you divide the statistical totals by the number of games played.

% of team carries

Games

Attempts/game

Yards/game

Average/game

TDs/game

< 50%

5

7.2

43.0

6.0

0.2

51-74%

14

19.0

86.0

4.5

0.5

> 75%

16

21.6

84.4

3.9

0.5

As you can see, whenever Grant's carries push him into the third category of team carry %, he actually gains fewer yards per game despite the additional opportunities.  Conversely, whenever Grant gets minimal opportunities, he seems to do the most with them.  He gains yards more efficiently with fewer carries, and he clearly starts to wear down after his twentieth attempt.

* * *

I'm no statistician, but even I'm shocked at how much the numbers back the argument.  Ryan Grant simply isn't consistent enough to be the running back that McCarthy wants him to be.  Is he effective?  In certain situations, yes.  But I don't think that he should be a 20+ carry workhorse; he simply isn't that kind of player.

Ted Simmons Speed Camp said it best in response to the question "What happened to Ryan Grant?"

The rest of the league realized he's really a complimentary back. 

Shortly thereafter, ktenreb summed up Ryan Grant's football career, how he arrived in Green Bay, why he succeeded, and the circumstances that led to his big payday:

He was a part-time starter in college on a bad Notre Dame team. TT’s plan for finding a f3eature running didn’t work (surprise!), and so at the beginning of the 2007 season it looked like the team needed some depth. TT spent a 6th round pick for what he assumed would be a third-string back who had decent hands (yes, he actually did). Jacobs didn’t work out, Wynne got hurt and lacked toughness, so Grant got his shot. His timing couldn’t have been better, because by that point of the season McCarthy and Favre had abandoned any chance of running the ball (remember, we were so bad on the O-line that we were playing with a gimmick zone-blocking scheme, to cover the lack of talent) and were killing opposing defenses with a 5 WR formation. Defenses adjusted by dropping 5 and 6 into coverage in nickel and dime defenses — against those defenses, Grant was able to run. He killed opposing defenses, and when they countered with putting more men in the box, Favre went back to killing them with slants.

After that season, Grant was a hot commodity to fans, but "real" GMs knew that it was a fluke. In fairness, Thompson knew it too, but he still stubbornly sat on his hands and took no steps to bring in a truly first-rate running back. Grant held out, and Thompson ultimately was forced to give him the big payday.

During that same summer, there was something about a quarterback/GM feud in Packerland that also was prominent, the result being that the quarterback who could run the 5 WR sets was no longer around. As the season began, Grant was not 100 percent healthy as a result of his contract holdout. He seemed to get healthier as the season progressed, and he gained over 1,000 yards, but it was pretty clear that he did not have the vision that first-rate running backs possess. Still, he was the best option on the roster and he got his carries, but at the rate of under four yards-per.

This year is the same as last year, except that Grant doesn’t have an injury excuse (at least not that I know of). The offensive line has regressed from last year, but Grant still does not show that he is truly a feature back. That was the knock against him in college, and that’s why the Giants were happy to dump him for a 6th round pick. 2007 was a fluke occasioned by a perfect storm of opportunity. It won’t happen again, and Ryan Grant is not going to turn into a genuine feature back in the NFL (unless he plays a very bad team with horrible injuries at a time when its roster is decimated by the flu).

That, my friends, is a great comment that should have been turned into a FanPost.  But is he right?

For what it's worth, I think so.  I think Grant can be very effective as a member of a committee, instead of a lone workhorse.  Remember how the Giants used Brandon Jacobs, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Derrick Ward with great success?  That's the type of setup I'd like to see Grant in, with Brandon Jackson playing the role of the change-of-pace back.  Then again, this is all assuming that the real problem isn't with Grant, but with his blocking, which is a very real possibility.

Man, the Thompson haters are going to have a field day with this one...and the sad thing is that they may have a point.

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I planned on...

…doing a midseason analysis between Grant and the other NFC North RB starters like I did for our preseason RBs. Maybe it will shed some more light on his performance thus far…

by soliman on Nov 2, 2009 3:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Incidentally...

…seeing as we’ve used Havner at every other position, why not use him in the Brandon Jacobs role as well?

by soliman on Nov 2, 2009 3:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

workhorse

Havner has been ridiculous these past two weeks. He has obviously given the team a much needed spark in the midst of injuries and let-downs.

"We're all filling each other's shoes right now." - Donald Driver

by jrox12 on Nov 3, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

I’ve been saying this about Grant since last year. He’s just not a great back. He’s average and he’s running behind a poor line which makes him look even worse. His number this last game weren’t totally his fault though as we got down 20-3 and pretty much dumped the run…but he wasn’t looking good even before that.

Its time to start looking for a back taht can make things happen on his own. Grant just isn’t going to be that guy. Too bad we didn’t go after Turner…grant came on the season before Turner was a FA which means that instead of trying to make a move to get a great back, we kept our mediocre on in hopes he’d pan out…and he hasn’t. Add RB to our list of needs for next year now.

by TrevorR on Nov 2, 2009 3:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

for what it's worth...(I'm no expert)

I do not hate Ted Thompson. I simply do not think he is right for the job anymore (if he ever was). We do not need to attack the players to see the fault of the staff. Sadly, the inadequacies of the team is where we ultimately find the errors of the GM and coaches.

In fairness to Ryan Grant, he does produce. That alone speaks enough about him. He may not be an “elite” back. Those are rare. Yet he gets the job done. Bring in another RB and let the two share the load, much like when we had Levens and Bennett. I am not against this idea. It seems to work well in the right circumstances for the right teams.

Yet the Packers must address the biggest problems first. For Green Bay, that is the offensive line. Few RBs will put up spectacular numbers without a good o-line. It almost always comes down to the guys up front, on both sides of the ball. That is where TT has failed miserably. That is where Grant has troubles, no blocking. Rodgers (yes, he might hold the ball too long sometimes) gets sacked more than anyone else in the NFL. TT’s disdain for the o-line was apparent the moment he came to GB and he has done nothing to change his stance since he has been here. He has single-handedly destroyed an annual playoff caliber team. It is not Ryan Grant’s fault. The RB is doing what he can with what he has. I have respect for him. For the GM, it is time to move on. For the coach, time to go. For Green Bay to win again, it is not the players fault. We need new leadership from the top.

If we trade Grant, then fine. I hope we get something good for him. But we sure better get a RB in the draft or somewhere else. Yet as I said, the line comes first and we need to fire TT.

by starmark on Nov 2, 2009 3:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with TT

he has been the right person to build the team, but he is not the right kind of person anymore, we need one that will take some risks to put us over the top

Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok

by blackoutsox on Nov 2, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Thompson was brought in to build the team

and his style (so far) does not seem well-suited for “pushing a team over the edge”, as it were.

But doesn’t he deserve a chance to at least try to get this team deep into the playoffs? I mean, he helped get Seattle to the Super Bowl. So it’s not like he’s incapable of building a SB-caliber team.

"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."

by Mitchell_M on Nov 2, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with "pushing a team over the edge"

Is how big free agent signings are prone to being pretty boom or bust and when you invest a lot into one or two guys who don’t pan out as well as you thought, the team pays for it in the long run. Look at the Redskins, they’ve been trying to push themselves over the top for awhile now with big signings and it hasn’t happened, meanwhile the previous three Superbowl winners were teams that barely ever make a splash in free agency.

by Charlie Kelly on Nov 2, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right, but at this point we really are a couple of good signings away from pushing us over the top. Signing a proven Rb like Pierre Thomas or Leon Washington, plus bringing in a good RT would likely put us over the top.

by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 4:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would also accept a good LT, LG, or C. Sitton seems to be the only one holding his own.

The Jets have made it clear that they have no intention of letting Leon become a FA.

Pierre Thomas is no more “proven” than Grant was when he got his payday + seems injury prone. He is losing carries to Mike Bell. Speaking of Mike Bell, why didn’t we bring him in for a tryout last offseason? Could have had him for nothing, and he knows the zone scheme.

"I agree but dont agree"

by juggernaut400 on Nov 2, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Interior of the O-Line

Will be good, the Packers just need two tackles. Lang is gonna move into LG and be a good player, I have all the confidence in the world. Spitz is a good C he’s just been hurt and Sitton is a road grader at RG. They’re missing a LT and a RT.

In regards to the running back situation, C.J. Spiller is my pipe dream. I would love a tackle in the first but it looks like the best two will be off the board and then everyone else is 2nd and 3rd round talent. I think the Packers will be in a good position to draft him in the low 20’s. Not only would he bring a dynamic presence to the run game but he’s a great return man.

He’s the running back version of Percy Harvin. Harvin is a receiver who can spell as a Reggie Bush type running back, he’s a dynamic slot receiver and a great kick returner. Spiller is the running back version of Harvin. He’s a better runner but he can split out, and he’s a great returner. He would fix two weaknesses automatically. He would be the Packers answer to Harvin and Hester. I ultimately would try to trade Grant, draft Spiller, and sign a bruiser like Lendale White or Ronnie Brown. Imagine a backfield of Spiller, Ronnie Brown/Lendale White, and Brandon Jackson with a more experienced Quinn Johnson leading them in the hole.

by GGGamer on Nov 3, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brown/White? Those are two guys on WAY different playing fields. I doubt Thompson would make the move to go after a player that could cost what Brown would…but I could see him going after Lendale. Interesting points though…seems really early to be talking draft though!

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 10:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Look at

Ronnie Browns stats and look at my comment below. I think you’re overrating Brown. The guy’s having a good year but he doesn’t have an amazing resume.

by GGGamer on Nov 5, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Injuries

I think the thing that keeps him from being a GREAT back is his inability to stay healthy for a whole season. Keep in mind that he is splitting carries. Nonetheless, even if I am overrating him, he and Lendale are still on a totally different level from one another.

I’ve watched Brown run and I am pretty impressed with him, I’d love to see him on the Packers but I HIGHLY doubt it will happen. Lendale could be a possibility though, that is the kind of guy the TT would go after.

by TrevorR on Nov 5, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are right. His health has been a factor and Ricky Williams has definitely been the other factor, but watching the Dolphins I think Ricky is slightly more talented. I like Ronnie Brown and I know we would both love to see him on the Packers and it probably won’t happen, but I don’t think he breaks the bank.

I just mentioned Brown and White together because both of them can push a pile. The Packers have no short yardage back to get that 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1, so I mentioned those two as possibilities. I don’t really like Lendales attitude but he did lose a lot of weight and I think he and a guy like Spiller could be like he is in Tennesse with Chris Johnson. I’ll tell you what though, if Thompson doesn’t get a tackle and a running back in the first round and free agency, I don’t know if I’ll have any faith left in him at all.

by GGGamer on Nov 5, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right

The interior line will be just fine, and will actually be very good as Lang, Spitz, and Sitton are all very young guys. We’re in desperate need of some T’s. While I think we’ll be picking in the low 20’s, I could also see us picking in the mid-to-high teens. If that’s the case then I think we might be able to get one of the big name Ts in next years draft but who knows.

Brown isn’t a FA after this season I don’t think, and I doubt the Dolphins would ever let him go. I would definitely be in favor of drafting either Spiller or Best, but I guess it will depend a lot on our draft position.

by packallday555 on Nov 4, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we will still need some Oline depth too though

at guard and tackle, so we dont shift the whole line if one person goes down

TT will most likely have to dip into free agency for that

FIRE GREG WALKER NOW!!!!!!!!!

by blackoutsox on Nov 4, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think

you guys are too high on Ronnie Brown. I mentioned him because I think he would be a good compliment with a guy like Spiller but Brown has had one season with more than 1,000 yards and it was only 1,008. None of us think Grant is anything and he will have another season better than that at the end of this year. Brown also only had double digit TD’s only once and he will be 28 years old in a month so I don’t think Brown is gonna get a huge deal.

In regards to his impending free agency; it will depend on the owners and league coming to an agreement.

by GGGamer on Nov 5, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No…the Redskins are doing it at the EXPENSE of the future…we are looking for complementary moves in addition to building for the future. The Redskins typically trade away draftpicks for players…that I don’t want.

by TrevorR on Nov 2, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose so

he can have his chance this offseason in replacing the tackles

as for RBs, I would like Sproles, as he would be a huge impact on special teams as well, but he may be too small. We would need a bigger, bruising back and use Grant as somewhat a speedster around the outside.

Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok

by blackoutsox on Nov 2, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Same here

Looking at the list that’s the one who most interests me but I don’t see anyway the Chargers don’t re-sign him.

by packallday555 on Nov 2, 2009 4:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sproles is going to get some big $

though he would look sweet in Green/Gold.

Green and Gold / Black and White

by OznCoop on Nov 2, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Grant will not make you miss, he will not run you over, he will not run away from you. Grant is very strong but his strengths are really only best suited for a neutralized opponent. The 2007 Favre year which he exploded was because over half of those games were played in very cold and sloppy conditions. On perfect weather games, he gets beat on agility.

I am not sure the o-line is really as bad as it seems. I think that the zone run blocking system McCarthy uses is garbage and the Packers would have far more success with a conventional style of blocking. We don’t pull any guards…ever. Which is ridiculous because we dont have monster lineman, we should be pancaking the crap out of teams with our guards.

MM has basically abandoned the screen pass, which he abhors. It was a staple of the west coast offense for a long time. Rodgers would be getting touched a lot less if we added more screen passes and wheel routes. We also need to engage in more quick pass slants. Favre demonstrated against the Pack and in his 2007 campaign that the slants work. Our WRs are built on yards after the catch. They are most overpowering WRs who you just send streaking down the field.

I really believe we have a very average coach. Really average coaches don’t take average players to the Superbowl.

by The Packer Dude on Nov 2, 2009 5:05 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Your assessment of Grant is pretty spot on but when you say this
The 2007 Favre year which he exploded was because over half of those games were played in very cold and sloppy conditions. On perfect weather games, he gets beat on agility.

it doesn’t hold up. When looking at his gamelog the only game that I can see that was played in very cold, sloppy conditions is the Bears game where we were humiliated 35-7. He did run for 100 yards in that game on 14 carries, but he ran for 119 on 25 carries against the Vikes when it wasn’t very cold, 101 on 15 carries in the dome at Detroit, 94 on 14 carries in Dallas, and 156 on 29 carries against the Raiders in a game that wasn’t determined by the weather. If you’re saying that he only played well in adverse conditions (a mudder, along the line Edgar Bennett) then the facts don’t support that claim. But you’re right, he will not make you miss, he will not run you over, and he will not run away from you.

MM has basically abandoned the screen pass, which he abhors. It was a staple of the west coast offense for a long time. Rodgers would be getting touched a lot less if we added more screen passes and wheel routes. We also need to engage in more quick pass slants. Favre demonstrated against the Pack and in his 2007 campaign that the slants work. Our WRs are built on yards after the catch. They are most overpowering WRs who you just send streaking down the field.

You are dead on here, imo. We never run screens anymore. After seeing it as a staple of the Packers for 15 years or more, its pretty weird seeing that play missing from most gameplans.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 2, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the two playoff games were pretty cold

and he only did good in one of them

and quite frankly Im happy without the screen, Rodgers and Grant is just not a good combo for that.

Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok

by blackoutsox on Nov 2, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

true

but he was GREAT in that Seahawk game. Fumbled twice to put in us in a gigantic hole and responds with 200 yards. That was huge. But then he was non-existent in the Giants game, either due to ineffectiveness or lousy playcalling, whichever you prefer.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 2, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Grant isn't, but Rodgers might be in the future...

… this offense needs an RB who is a threat out of the backfield. Grant just isn’t that guy. He’s not comfortable catching the ball and he doesn’t have the knack for sitting down in the holes in the zone over the middle or in the flat. I thought that was why they brought in Green, but he wasn’t used in that capacity much yesterday. The only special thing about Green anymore are his hands. If you’re not throwing him the ball 3 time or more per game he’s not worth a roster spot. I suspect his snaps will increase at Grant’s expense, especially in games where GB is trailing, but it’s not going to do anything to help the running game.

What begins in fear usually ends in folly.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 2, 2009 8:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

draw

Rodgers is, however, the kind of quarterback who can run a QB draw, much like what Tony Romo does on occasion. Rodgers is obviously not as big as Romo but he is much quicker and more agile. With more coaching he could become proficient at it; they ran a QB draw against Minnesota and Rodgers didnt look too comfortable. He posseses the skills necessary to get it done.

"We're all filling each other's shoes right now." - Donald Driver

by jrox12 on Nov 3, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in response to the screen...

when was the last time the Packers ran an effective screen?? we used to score 50 yard touchdowns off a screen pass, now we can’t pick up a 3rd and 8. Dorsey Levens made a living off the screen pass because he had a capable offensive line. The packers right now have not had a chance to gel as a unit due to injuries. This has limited the use of the screen and run game.

"We're all filling each other's shoes right now." - Donald Driver

by jrox12 on Nov 3, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Grant will give you exactly what you give him. If ther’s a hole he will hit it hard but any mistakes in the blocking (which have been a lot) will give him issues. He isn’t the kind of back who will be able to break multiple tackles in a run. I have noticed an improvement in his vision, especially against the Browns. He saw how undiciplined the defensive ends for Cleveland were and took advantage of them when the over-pursued.

"We're all filling each other's shoes right now." - Donald Driver

by jrox12 on Nov 3, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For sure

I have never posted to this board before, but after reading your comments I thought you were reading my mind for the most part.

1. Ryan Grant is a great # 2 back.

2. Mc doesnt seem to be able to call plays that offset the rush. It seemed as though Mc thought the current O line would be able to manhandle the Queens front 4. Any moron knows better than that. Even the elite teams of the NFL would be getting the ball out quickly. It’s sad it took him 6 quarters of football to realize that.

3. Yes, we have an average coach. And I think that is generous. This young team needs a “get in your face” coach such as Cower, Chuckie or Holmgren.

4. Yes, O line blocking scheme is garbage. But what do you expect from a bad coach. I’m still not sure the talent is there either.

by ssrbdh on Nov 3, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we need a back who can catch the ball

That’s my biggest problem with Ryan Grant. Clearly he isn’t a guy who can be a 20+ carry, grind them down, back. I’d like to have a back who is a threat in the pass game. I know it might sound crazy, but I’d love it if Green Bay had someone like Reggie Bush. I know most consider him a disappointment, but I think that in our offense, he’d be so dangerous as a pass threat out of the backfield.

He’s also not a 20+ carry back, but atleast he brings something to the table.

by shaftr on Nov 2, 2009 5:35 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He's been catching it this year.

He hasn’t dropped that many this year. In the Bengal game it seemed like he was the only guy with fingers.

by uglyfatpimplynerd on Nov 3, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

isn’t chester taylor a FA after this year? He’d be an interesting target to fill a ST void at RB. I’d love to see him paired with another back to split the carries. He’s a VERY qualified receiver out of the backfield.

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 10:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Grant is better than Chester Taylor

so I wouldn’t be a fan of that…

FIRE GREG WALKER NOW!!!!!!!!!

by blackoutsox on Nov 4, 2009 8:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ooh I disagree. Chester was a pretty good back when he started and he’s a FAR superior receiver. He’d be a much more dangerous back. That said, my suggestion was to bring him in to pair him with another back to split the carries.

by TrevorR on Nov 4, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eh

I don’t think so. I would definitely take Taylor over Grant. He is shifty, and has good vision. Plus he is one of the better receiving backs in the league.

by packallday555 on Nov 5, 2009 11:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dum Capers

So I have an idea, with 3rd and 17 after being humiliated by Favre for a little over a game and a half this year, lets rush 3 and let Favre complete another then a 50 yard td pass. It only took about 70 minutes of schooling by Favre before Dum Capers would turn up the heat on him. Throw a little pressure on him, we should have intercepted some of those quackers floating in the 3 and out following the touchdown. I highly recommend Green Bay pass an ordinance outlawing the 3 man rush by the home team. Favre, and everybody else, won’t play as well if we pressure. What was this 3-4 supposed to buy us again?

by daldog on Nov 2, 2009 7:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe Ryan Grant signed Dom Capers to be DC

Wait, what’s that you say? Ryan Grant had nothing to do with Capers’ hiring? Well then why are we discussing it here?

In all seriousness daldog, you’re point is not a bad one, its just not relevant to this discussion and Mitchell has been trying to ensure that we stay (at least relatively) on topic. This point can be brought up on any of the threads regarding the game yesterday, and there are many.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 2, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

THANK YOU!!!!

PEOPLE STICK TO THE POINT OF THE POST. First it was TT, then Favre, then MM, now DC?!?! Can’t we just discuss the topic without someone being retarded like this!?!?!

by TrevorR on Nov 2, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in 2007

I would say yes. He was teh last guy to run 100+ yards on my Vikings defense in the 34-0 drubbing :(. lol

Now…… He’s just …vanished.

BTW why was A. Green the KR? I know Blackmon’s out. but…. WHY?

by CrazyCollegian on Nov 2, 2009 7:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

That was a shocker to me too! I was WAITING for him to fumble!

by TrevorR on Nov 2, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate Ted Thompson.

Where are his first round picks Harrell and Raji?? I saw B.J. play in a few plays on Sunday, but Harrell hasn’t played a down this season. If I was Pack president, I’d give him this draft to turn the ship around and if he couldn’t(cant) do it, call Mike Holmgren and see if he wants the GM job. Or better yet, make him like the Bill Parcells of the Packers.
      I also don’t think Grant is the answer either, he’s a good back, and I like him, but after seeing Dorsey Levens, and Ahmad Green(even though he had a fumble problem), I do have some concerns for him long term in Green Bay. I’d love to get a stud of a RB this draft, but I have a feeling the O-line problems are going to make that a priority for the ’11 draft instead, unless Thompson decides to spend some FA money(Larry Johnson, maybe?)

by biggun33 on Nov 3, 2009 6:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hey how about the one first rounder.....

the name is Clay Matthews if you are not sure. He would be the one that TT traded up for and is now starting OLB and is pretty studly!

by bizzle4 on Nov 3, 2009 10:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We discussed LJ. Not sure he’s worth the money he’d want. As a one year fix (for this year) I would like him if KC dropped him but not as a long term answer.

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 10:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe

we should draft a quick RB.

Willie Parker is pretty much obsolete for Pittsburgh now and maybe with his speed he could bring something new to the table.

I am not high on Willie Parker but I just like the idea of his speed and quickness being added to our running game.

by ATBxBezerker on Nov 3, 2009 8:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

oops

I meant that maybe we could trade for him (I highly doubt it) but like I said before, I want something new added to our running game, since it has failed us so far.

by ATBxBezerker on Nov 3, 2009 8:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

all about the line

The KC and Denver lines made their backs look like superstars for years. It seems like every year there are at least 2-3 new running backs who are very good to great…so spending big bucks or a high pick on them doesn’t seem worth it unless you’re talking AP, Tomlinson, Faulk.

Draft/trade/abduct a RT/LT and all of a sudden Grant would look better (and I’m not even a fan of his). GB is a cold weather town with an outdoor stadium…I can’t understand why emphasis isn’t put on the run game and the pieces make it go.

by gangstaff on Nov 3, 2009 9:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I agree, but if there isn't a tackle worth taking in the first round by the time Green Bay is up

I’d rather see them draft a quality back like Spiller or Best and then focus on the tackle position in the later rounds.

by Charlie Kelly on Nov 3, 2009 9:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

or free agency!

oh wait,

nevermind

FIRE GREG WALKER NOW!!!!!!!!!

by blackoutsox on Nov 3, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Edge...

I know he doesn’t look like he has too much left, but I wonder if we could scoop him off of FA to be more of a change of pace type back. I have a hard time believing that he could fall off SO quickly but to be released by the Seahawks doesn’t say too much for ya…anyone like his potential as a change of pace bruiser?

by TrevorR on Nov 4, 2009 10:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

no thanks...

he fell off when he left Indy IMO. He had what one or two decent-good seasons in AZ..

by bizzle4 on Nov 4, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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