The Day After: Green Bay Packers Loss To The Vikings

by Brandon on Nov 3, 2009 7:15 AM CST in Analysis Comment 36 comments

On the Green Bay Packers offensive line. From Mike McCarthy:

Offensive line, I'm going to take the week, very similar to last week. I'm going to see how Chad Clifton progresses through the week. I also want to see how Mark Tauscher progresses through the week. Then have an opportunity to grade the film this morning and go through the corrections today with the offensive linemen who played in the game. We'll take that through the week, just very similar to what we did last week.

DE Cullen Jenkins on "things". From the Journal-Sentinel:

"It's tough. We have players who are good at doing stuff and we're not doing it. You want to win, and when you're not winning those things you start questioning, is it that people really want to win or they really want to accomplish another goal, just running what they want to run? I don't know. It's tough, though."

McCarthy's response:

(In addition to what Jolly said, did you see the things Cullen Jenkins had to say about the defense?)
Yes I did. Jeff just made me aware of them. Our schedule doesn't change. I've been with the coaches all morning, going through the tape. Cullen and I will have a conversation.

Maybe there are limits to what the things the new 3-4 defense can do. From the Press-Gazette:

The Packers’ defensive coordinator deployed an extra rusher on seven of Favre’s 25 dropbacks — 28 percent, up from 17.2 on Oct. 5. But with the exception of one ball ILB Nick Barnett knocked out of the veteran’s hand, Favre sliced and diced, completing 5 of 7 passes for 59 yards and the clinching touchdown against the blitz.

On the Vikings. From Aaron Schatz:

The Vikings are awfully impressive. They've turned into an all-around team this year. Adding Brett Favre is part of that, of course, but the receivers have really improved. Sidney Rice has blossomed, and Percy Harvin is excellent for a rookie. On defense, they're getting on without Antoine Winfield. Their weakest unit now is probably the linebackers, but even they are league average.

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Look forward to next week

We are playing a Tampa Bay team in transistion although it is away this game is very winnable. If we can end the 1/2 mark at 5-3 with 3 losses with teams with a combined record of 12-3 (two losses to vikings) it makes me feel a little better about the 2nd half. By now we all know what the pack needs to improve so I’m not even going to get into it(run, line play). I’d say we have an excellent shot at the wild card or even if the Vikings have their annual collapse even maybe the division(thats a stretch i know). I’m going to finish with the most cliche football saying “One week at a time”.

V/R
Ted Thompson, GM
Green Bay Packers
1265 Lombardi Ave.
Green Bay, Wisconsin 54304
Tel: 920-569-7500

by Ted Thompson on Nov 3, 2009 7:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ted Thompson

This reply is in no way associated with your last post. However, this is the only direct medium I can find to get this off my chest.

I wanted to say that as a fan of the Pack for the past 15 years, I hope all Packer Backers have finally realized something:
Favre led the team through many great seasons and few tough ones. Now that he has moved on, that doesn’t mean you have to hate him, write him out of Packers history and lore, or even create effigies. What you should be focusing on is your quarterback and leader- Aaron. You should hope that the two years under Favre rubbed off, that Aaron will be GB’s next Iron Man, that he will have the same love for the game and fans.(However, the whole Iron Man thing is going to be hard to do if the OL, specifically Barbre, doesn’t keep Aaron upright). I suggest we Backers turn our attention inward, rally around our QB and watch him flourish as the next chapter in the great book of Packers history.

by AFavreandPackerBacker on Nov 3, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

There's tons of adulation for Rodgers around these parts

but hey, if you want more, we can get you more. :)

"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."

by Mitchell_M on Nov 3, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or he could just take another page from the Iron Man

and get hooked on vicodin.

What was with Kendall's shaved head?....looks like a fist with eyes.
scsteve (Pirates fan)

Correction: Jason Kendall IS a fist with eyes.
Derek (Brewers fan)

by bluejazz04 on Nov 3, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I DON"T HAVE TO HATE HIM?

I Have one word for you, TRAITOR. Now please don’t try to tell me how he was run out, or how we need to respect what he did for us. I did that for almost a year, untill he put on a Vikings uniform. In my honest opinion, I was the Packers would sign some unknown, never made a NFL team QB and give him the #4 jersey. It dosen’t deserve to go the Hall of Fame on the back of a Traitor!!!!

by ShawnH on Nov 4, 2009 6:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh by the way

I’ve been supporting Aaron since he started his first game with the Pack. IMHO the man is going to GREAT, as soon as we get a better team supporting him.

by ShawnH on Nov 4, 2009 6:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys can't beat good teams

That said Tampa will be one of the few winnable games you have left. Your only wins came against 4 teams with a combined record of 7-23 and the schedule gets really rough after this week, so I’m predicting an 8-8 finish. Pack it in.

by St. Esiason on Nov 3, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you sure you looked hard enough?

8-8 is basically assuming the worst. We have Tampa Bay, Detroit and Seattle – 3 terrible teams that should take us to 7 wins easily. We’ve already beaten Chicago once and I’m confident we can do it again. San Fran just isn’t ~~that~~ good either.

I just like to think we will be able to win those and take at least 1 from Baltimore/Pittsburg/Dallas/Arizona to get to 10 wins.

by Archibaldcrane on Nov 3, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So just which ones will be lucky enough to win?

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 3, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tampa and Detroit maybe Seattle

by St. Esiason on Nov 3, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe seattle, maybe Chicago too

they might surprise the Packers.

Going through the schedule, I see a long, tough road ahead. Finishing above .500 will be hard to do. I’ve been a Packers fan for a long time. I have been right about most things so far. Of course that doesn’t mean I will be right about the rest of this season. Yet I do not predict a favorable outcome this year.

Schedule and potential wins and losses:

@ TB W
DAL L
SF L
@ DET W
BAL L
@ CHI L (maybe W)
@ PIT L
SEA W (maybe L)
@ ARI L

Green Bay is 4-3 right now. With the schedule they have coming up, I see two easy wins with two that are up in the air. If the Packers split the CHI/SEA games, then those are three wins for the rest of the season. Of course that means the Packers finish the season at 7-9. If the Packers beat both CHI and SEA, then the best they hope for is 8-8. The Packers would have to upset one of the other teams to finish above .500. At this point, I do not see it happening. The o-line and the punishment Aaron Rodgers is taking is too much to overcome. Rodgers may not even finish the year. If he goes down, we can forget winning anything.

by starmark on Nov 3, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you are HIGHLY overrating a few teams on this schedule. Sure the Steelers are a loss, put that one in the books. Baltimore should beat us and Dallas has a chance though they’ve been far from consistent and have a mediocre D. The teams that will beat us will have a solid D and a good offense. I don’t see too many of those teams. I could see us beating the 49ers. They don’t have a strong enough offense to keep up or a strong enough D to hold us back. Arizona could be a shootout but they haven’t been firing on all cylinders. There are only two for sure loses, two for sure wins and quite a few very winable games on the books.

It seems to be Packer fans that are the most down on this team right now. I think 9 wins is still very much possible and even higher. Hopefully the line will gel some more and getting Clifton and Tausher on the line will add some veteran leadership that will help them to look at least mediocre!! haha how sad.

You are right though, if Rodgers goes down, we are done. Does that make him an MVP candidate then?? :-)

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

disagree

I dont do schedule predictions and try not to look ahead but all our hard games are at home and the easy games on the road (minus PITS)

Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok

by blackoutsox on Nov 3, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I see the Pack going 6 - 3 over their final 9 games.

Losses will likely be to Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Chicago. But that is certainly far from a lock. Dallas, San Francisco, and Arizona are tough. If the Packers lose to either Dallas or SF, the Arizona game could be for the final wild card spot.

by Belarus on Nov 3, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would agree with that

by packallday555 on Nov 3, 2009 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Grim assessments don't seem reasonable to me...

While I may be a Vikings fans, I don’t think that St. Esiason’s prediction of 8-8 is very accurate. I’d say 10-6 is definitely a possibility. Packers may very well STILL make the play-offs, where they’ll be rather dangerous, imho. Any team with an excellent QB and receiving corps has a chance in any play-off game. Doesn’t mean I want the Packers to make the play-off or even to do well if they do get there but if we’re being realistic here, they can still do quite well this season. It IS a tough schedule in the 2nd half for the Packers (one reason that I wasn’t terribly worried if we DID lose to them this past Sunday) but the Packers could come through it fairly well if they get some breaks and learn from their mistakes.

by Wytefang on Nov 3, 2009 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One reason I'd like the Packers better on the road come playoff time

is that their offense is more suited for warm weather or domes. The weather can get pretty rough around January in Green Bay and like we saw in the 2007 NFC Championship that can prove detrimental to a team that relies mainly on it’s passing attack and doesn’t have a very reliable running game.

by Charlie Kelly on Nov 3, 2009 9:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Annual Collapse?

Like the 2008 collapse Ted?

They won the division last year without Brett Favre. God willing all of the Vikes key players stay healthy. If they do, with Brett the Vikes have a shot at not only winning the division but securing home field advantage for the divisional round and possibly the conference championship.

The packers have some tough games ahead in Pittsburgh and Baltimore that the Vikings have already gotten out of the way. Both of them will put intense pressure on Aaron. Arizona and San Francisco has some fire power too including very good pass rushers.

Good luck to the packers the rest of the way. They’re going to need it.

by Belarus on Nov 3, 2009 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wonder if MM's schedule includes a leadership seminar?

by Danwood on Nov 3, 2009 8:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Root Cause Analysis

I’m a pretty logical guy… I see a LOT of talent on this team, on both sides of the ball. For sure, we have a lack of discipline as tied to penalties… The real question, however, is what is at the root of the penalties.

I’m beginning to believe that it’s play-calling (on both sides of the line)… The strengths and skills of this team and its players are NOT being leveraged. Our offense has (once again) become predictable and we have drastically changed our defensive personality from the pre-season. It’s like a different team showed up once the regular season began… I’ll place the largest allocation of responsibility with the coaching staff….. period.

by Green-Blood on Nov 3, 2009 9:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

When penalties start costing the team points, the coaches HAVE to act. I have not seen that. If the Packers are the most penalized team, then something is wrong from a leadership standpoint. If the Packers are struggling in the W/L records for a couple years in a row, then you have to go to the top to find out what is wrong. You claim there is talent on this team. Most people on here would likely agree with you. The QB, Rodgers, is the man. We’ve got great receivers. Green Bay is not bad all around with the exception of the o-line. If a team is talented-laden, then where does the blame fall? It has to go to the top, beyond the players. I may or may not agree with the assessment that there is a “LOT” of talent (at least to the point that the Packers are an elite team). Yet they should be much better than how they are playing now. The Packers only beat the weak teams. I can almost guarantee that when the going gets tougher, the Packers will fail just like last year. 8-8 is not out of the question…or worse. The Packers are an average team. Why? It isn’t necessarily because we have a QB that puts up numbers but can’t win games. It isn’t necessarily because we have a running back that puts up some rushing yards some games, but isn’t an “elite” back. It isn’t even because we have a poor o-line that can’t protect our QB.

We know where to place the blame. It goes with a GM that can’t put the right players on the field to protect our franchise QB. It goes with a coach that cannot control the players. These are the reasons why Green Bay is an average team. As long as these guys stay with the Packers, expect more mediocrity.

by starmark on Nov 3, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll Second that

First and foremost i do think that the Packers have alot of talent on both sides of the ball. I have been fed up in general with the play calling this year, but to basically repeat your game plan against the vickings……really :(…. is the last straw for me. Coach Mike should not be the offensive cordinator. Does anybody remember that was his job back in SF? does anybody remember SF offense during that period. My case and point. One more comment….. the whole notion that you have to establish the run or the run sets up the pass is complete crap. You dont need to establish the run to win games. We have a great WR core and Rogers has enough talent to continue to pass while the runing game is lacking. If i remember that is how we got the the NFC campionship game a couple of years ago…….. Maybe that is why Dan Marino held all of the passing records….. they never had an elite running back. i wont make any perdictions on the rest of the season i will continue to wait for this coaching staff to wake up!

by MJ27 on Nov 3, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am starting to think that they won’t wake up. I was much more supportive of McCarthy early in the year but he’s losing my confidence with poor playcalling these days.

by TrevorR on Nov 4, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Aaron Schatz's Comment

“Their weakest unit now is probably the linebackers, but even they are league average”

I’d say the Vikings linebacker corps is up around the best in the NFL. Chad Greenway and E.J. Henderson are both well above average and Ben Leber is slightly above average I would say. The Vikings weakest unit, to me, is their safety unit.

by Loki The Viking God on Nov 3, 2009 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

best in the NFL?

They are better than average, that is certain but they are NO where near the best. First they are TERRIBLE in coverage which is why you see teams going to their TEs all the time. The Vikings are among the league leaders in TDs to TEs…that falls on the LBs. They are good but very much one dimensional. I would say the safeties are worse though, you are probably right there. The D gets worse the further away from the ball you get.

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Their LBs rely far too much on that front four for run stopping and regularly get burned on pass coverage

None of them are near the top of the NFL.

by Charlie Kelly on Nov 3, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting stat on ESPN just now

The Vikings QB has been sacked 18 times this season with NONE of them coming from the Packers. That means they’ve played 8 games now and have been averaging giving up 3 sacks a game yet we can’t even get him ONCE in two games? Something is NOT right there.

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hence the Cullen "handcuffs" complaint, and Kampman's more controlled silence.

Aaron Kampman is a beast, who is inexplicably being kept locked in a cage.

by puddnhead on Nov 3, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Even there though, I’ve seen him in his 3 pt stance in the last few games and he’s STILL not getting in there. This is the area that killed our D last year and after the Bears game I thought the 3-4 was going to fix it but either we digressed, the playcalling changed, or we are just WAY too obvious in what is coming.

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think your players

are being used to their strengths, much like Chilly implementing the zone blocking scheme when our O-lineman are maulers.

by KC612 on Nov 3, 2009 1:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Because they're trying to fit players to a scheme instead of fitting the scheme to the players.

The 3-4 has worked at times but all in all this is a team that is primarily suited for a 4-3. The defense was good in 2007 but bad in 2008, it was predictable but there were also some major injuries (Jenkins and Barnett) that hampered te team. With Raji joining Pickett on the inside and Matthews replacing Poppinga, this team would be much better than 08.

by Charlie Kelly on Nov 3, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yup

Kampman, Jenkins, and the cornerbacks to be specific.

Kampman needs to blitz every play, for Jenkins, after his first amazing game against the Bears, I think they told him to try to move the oline and let others in the backfield rather than blow past them himself, and he is rightfully frusturated, and our corners need to stick to bump and run and let Collins and Bigby and the nickle backs and the linebackers play coverage

dont see how this is so hard to do…

Kind of a shame the Rockies aren't around to win it for Balloon Boy
-billyok

by blackoutsox on Nov 3, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I also don't think

McCarthy and Co. are calling plays to help them either. I was surprised they didn’t run more quick slants and screens to get the ball in the playmakers hands and take advantage of the Vikes aggressive D. The line had some problems protecting Rodgers (even though I thought Lang did a pretty good job), but a lot of it was Aaron holding on to the ball too long as well.

by KC612 on Nov 3, 2009 1:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

the 3-4

From what I’ve heard, the Vikings have played against the 3-4 for most of the year so far. I think the Ravens and Steelers use it. Probably a couple other teams do too. That means most of the teams the Vikings have played have used the 3-4 against the Vikings. Of course, don’t get mad at me if I am completely wrong. I did not look it up. I am only going on memory here. My point is that the Vikings were prepared for it from the Packers. Not to mention the fact that Favre has seen EVERYTHING that an NFL defense has to offer.

I was one of the ones who begged for the Packers to blitz Favre. I thought the only way to beat the Vikings was to pressure Favre. Well, that’s easier said than done. That Min team is just too good right now. Honestly, my hat is off to Brett Favre. He played well. What did we all expect? Did some of you think he would come in and throw 6 INTs? Maybe you might have hoped for it, but it simply wasn’t going to happen.

The transition to the 3-4 is not working because the players are frustrated with it. Part of that is because the Vikings beat the Packers. I never liked the idea, but we’re stuck with it now. We have to make the most of it or the Packers will get nowhere this year. The chances are slim for even a wild card. So if the players want to make the playoffs, then I suggest they stop complaining and get to work.

by starmark on Nov 3, 2009 2:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You are right there…they’ve face a few teams that have played the 3-4 for longer than the Packers…Steelers, Ravens, even the Browns. We came in with an inferior version of it and they were completely ready for it. In fact, the last two games for the Vikings probably set our D up for disaster. That said, its still no excuse…we have to adjust and find ways to get pressure on the QB or we’ll never take that next step.

by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs