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Position Coaches


We don't have the opportunity to see what a position coach does on a daily basis. As fans we have a limited vision in any attempt to evaluate a position coach. At the same time, there are some criteria that can be used to at least get some sort of idea.

One, the position coach needs to be evaluated by the performance of the entire group at the position. A phenomenal player is a phenomenal player, and certainly not necessarily the product of a good coach. A lousy performance by one player may also be just that, rather than a reflection of poor coaching. Therefore the performance of the entire unit should be considered the standard for a position coach.

Star-divide

Two, I assume that there is communication between position coaches, coordinators, head coach and the GM concerning personnel. For example, if QB coach, Tom Clements, believes that after working with Matt Flynn and Brian Brohm, that they can play well enough so as not to warrant going out and looking for a veteran back-up, then he will communicate that to the coaches above him. Or, if he thinks that there is no way Flynn can really fill-in for Aaron Rodgers, it is his responsibility to communicate this to Joe Philbin and Mike McCarthy. The responsibility for the final decision belongs to McCarthy, who, of course, also evaluates players.

This means that in addition to unit performance, position coaches can be evaluated to some extent by personnel moves, or lack of personnel moves of players in their units.

This brings me to my real point. How are the position coaches doing? We certainly seem to be excelling in some units, and utterly failing in others. And these failures may be leading us to another sub-.500 year.

Jimmy Robinson (receiver coach), Ben McAdoo (tight ends) and Mike Trgovac (defensive line) get A's. These are the three units that excel the most.

Probably, Tom Clements (QB coach) deserves an A-. If Rodgers starts getting rid of the ball more quickly, that could move to an A.

It is hard to evaluate Joe Whitt Jr (cornerbacks), because he has been blessed with having top veteran talent at the position, so that it is difficult to know if the coaching makes much difference. A-

Winston Moss has also done an adequate job with inside linebackers, though better pass-rushing is needed. B

Kevin Greene (outside linebackers) gets barely a passing grade. Aaron Kampman has not adjusted well. Brady Poppinga has been a disappointment and Jeremy Thompson hasn't done much. It is from outside linebacker that most of the pass rush is designed to come in Caper's 3-4.  C+

Edgar Bennett (running backs) is a good man and well-liked. He can be credited with helping Ryan Grant become a decent starting RB, rather than a journeyman. However, the running back position for the Packers is relatively weak. It seems that Jackson, Wynn and Lumpkin are not the answers for the #2 back. My impression has been that Bennett defends his guys, but perhaps he would have done better for the team, if he'd told McCarthy that we need to go out and get a quality back. Instead we bring Ahman Green back, and he could be our best back. C

Darren Perry (safeties) inherited a Pro Bowl free safety in Nick Collins and big hitter in Atari Bigby. The new defense was supposed to create more opportunities for safeties to make plays, instead the opposite seems to be true. Then we had the late cut of Antonio Smith, then the cut of Aaron Rouse after a few games. While these cuts can't be completely laid at Perry's feet, he certainly should have been fighting to keep the only back-ups who knew the defense. Instead we released two average safeties (though some reports had Smith doing very well) and picked a couple others who offered no real improvement. Poor safety play has resulted in some key touchdowns for the other team and possibly for one loss to Minnesota and one to Tampa Bay (Bush's poor coverage).  D

James Campen (offensive line) heads the worst unit on the team. Thirty-seven sacks in 8 games?!?! A poor rushing attack! They tried to sneak Jamon Meredith on the practice squad and lost him, where he went to Buffalo, became a starter, and performed better than Allen Barbre. Then they kept Breno Giacomini as Barbre's back-up, and the coaches seem scared to even put him on the field. Why wasn't Campen in McCarthy's office everyday telling him that these 9 guys just don't have what it takes to be a good NFL line? Go get some linemen!  F

Shawn Slocum's special teams have been a disaster. The offense consistently must play a long field, while the defense is defending a short field. The return units have been unfortunate, losing the top 3 returners to injury, Blackmon, Nelson and Swain. Slocum also inherited some chaos from some very poor personnel decisions last year: cutting Jon Ryan just before the season began (If he were still with the Pack, we might have won a couple more games over the past two years.) and cutting Tracy White, our best special teams player, to keep Danny Lansanah for a couple more months. It seems to indicate that McCarthy doesn't take special teams too seriously. But even with all those problems outside of his control, Slocum's unit still should be performing better. Given the problems not of his own doing, he gets a small benefit of the doubt. F+

With so many underperforming units, and difficult games remaining, I fear we are heading for another top 10 pick this year.

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Why wasn’t Campen in McCarthy’s office everyday telling him that these 9 guys just don’t have what it takes to be a good NFL line? Go get some linemen! F

This is also what I just cannot seem to grasp. I just can’t seem to wrap my brain around how we could go into this year with as bad an o-line as we have.

by packallday555 on Nov 9, 2009 11:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm still trying to understand the Meredith move

A guy that was projected as high as a second-rounder in the draft we think we’re going to be able to sneak onto the practice squad, where any other team could sign him with virtually no risk associated? While we keep a guy on the roster who was a TE in college and hasn’t shown a whole lot of promise as a tackle? You can’t possibly tell me someone thought Meredith had a better chance to stay on the practice squad than Giacomini, that’s insane. The second I saw that we were trying to get Meredith on the practice squad I knew he was gone.

I think this is a very nice analysis of the position coaches though, unfortunately MM does not share the opinion that any of these guys are operating on a level lower than a B+ apparently…

dickie_thon: Third baseman Bill Hall / Watches the third strike go by / Gamel grabs his glove

by GoGregGo on Nov 10, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

For the life on me I just could not understand the Meredith move. The guy was ranked as like the 6th or 7th best T in the draft in some rankings. And we got him in the 5th or 6th round I believe! It just makes no sense.

by packallday555 on Nov 11, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

RB Green

He’s not what he once was, but this guy is performing at a higher level than had been expected. I’ve been pretty impressed thus far and hope to see him in on a regular basis.

The kick return team has been downright gamechaning: in a bad way. We are being taken out of games by our special teams unit. Tampa Bay hung in there all game because we couldn’t lock down on special teams. This unit started the year with promise and looked pretty decent, but now we’re shooting ourselves in the foot several times a game.

And does anyone know why Bush was on the field so much in Tampa?

by StephanL on Nov 10, 2009 2:31 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

And does anyone know why Bush was on the field so much in Tampa?

I was wondering the same thing. He is HORRIBLE in every aspect of the game. I don’t understand why we even still have him on our team. I just about had a heart attack from screaming so much at my T.V. when Bush was out there.

Green isn’t what he used to be but he is still probably better then Grant. Someone pointed it out yesterday but I almost couldn’t believe my eyes when he broke those 3 tackles yesterday. I just hadn’t seen that from a Packers Rb since 07’. Though Grant did look pretty good yesterday.

The kick return team has been downright gamechaning: in a bad way. We are being taken out of games by our special teams unit. Tampa Bay hung in there all game because we couldn’t lock down on special teams. This unit started the year with promise and looked pretty decent, but now we’re shooting ourselves in the foot several times a game.

Exactly. Pretty much every time we punt or kick off the opposing team returns into our territory. Is our special teams even practicing during the week? Or does Slocum just tell them to all line up in a line across the 20 yard line and run and make a tackle once Crosby kicks the ball?

And Tramon Williams is a good Cb, but he is a HORRIBLE returner. All he does is run horizontally, back and forth across the field.

Why is Kapinos on the team still? There has to be a FA out there that can punt the ball longer then 35 yards and be able to make the ball hang in the air for more then 3 seconds.

We just beat ourselves way too much.
Bengals game: Grant’s fumble in Cincy territory. And the horrible angles taken by Collins and Bush on the screen pass Palmer threw on 3rd and 35, which they converted!
Vikings game #1: Driving the ball into their territory 3 times and not getting points on any of those 3 possessions.
Vikings game #2: Just not coming out ready to play. Had we come to play right away and not had to claw back from a 24-3 deficit who knows what could have happened. Jolly headbutting Taylor.
Bucs: Blocked punt. Missed opportunities on sacks. The long kickoff return. Horrible play-calling on the series which McCarthy seemed determined only to get Green the team rushing record. Actually playing Jarret “I’m absolutely useless” Bush on defense.

by packallday555 on Nov 10, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gilbert Brown calls out McCarthy

Noticed Gilbert Brown on the radio in Milwaukee today putting this right on McCarthy. You never know the politics involved, McCarthy may have had the O=line figured out to be a problem but if TT says you will work with it, what could he do. The architect is responsible for the foundation. At this point my impression is TT sits in the pressbox and figures he will ride out the problems, draft his way to an answer, and somehow has to keep the bottom line black. Well, the fans will buy the tickets no matter what, he figures, I will just administrate my way to a good bottom line, the network moneys get divided, we have a big profit, and I make more money. The captain goes down with the ship. TT needs a pink slip after the Tampa Bay game. That statement has nothing to do with Favre, crap on him, give the punter the number 4. When Brett wore that viking jersey into Lambeau, remember Jane Fonda on the antiaircraft gun in hanoi. You can’t hang him cause it’s only a game. Definitely don’t eat at his steakhouse. Never give him a day. Never retire the number. Get a pig for the team mascot, put the 4 jersey on the pig. I can’t believe people are so docile anymore, as to just let the politicians and Favre’s of the world behave the way they do and just go about their business.

by daldog on Nov 10, 2009 6:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

you should have stopped

with “that statement has nothing to do with Favre”

But I do agree. If we do not turn it around this season. I dont even care if we have a .500 or better mark. If we dont get to the playoffs and aleast win one game something has to be done to shake up the house. Either with TT or MM. The drafting for the future has not failed but has not worked out. When you plan for guys to be playing well in their 3+ years and they are not. They are actually the big problem (OL) things need to be done. And drafting a guy in the mid-late rounds to hope he will help with the problem is not going to cut it anymore.

by bizzle4 on Nov 10, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the problem with TT's OL drafting

And I think it’s been said other places on the site, but TT drafts OL for versatility instead of ability. Which is fine when you’re looking for a back-up that you could plug into several different positions, but when you look at our opening day line, I think you could legitimately say that we only had one offensive lineman with a “pure” position, and that’s a rapidly aging Clifton.

I’m not saying that a versatile lineman can’t be a productive starter (Sitton seems like he’s at least holding his own this year), but when 4/5 of your line is guys that have no real position, that’s a problem. I’m really worried about what happens when Clifton can’t play anymore, we have no back-up plan right now, and that falls right on TT’s drafting strategy.

dickie_thon: Third baseman Bill Hall / Watches the third strike go by / Gamel grabs his glove

by GoGregGo on Nov 10, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

TT wants to be known as a genius.

TT is always trying to find the sleepers in the draft, the players who are being overlooked by everyone else. A GM that found lots of sleepers would, of course, be considered a genius. He’s succeeded maybe twice, Nick Collins and Greg Jennings.
It is good to find some sleepers, but you can’t base a draft around finding sleepers. He even wasted a 1st round pick on a sleeper in 2007, Justin Harrell.
In 2006 he drafted Colledge in the 2nd round. That was a bit of a surprise. Packer officials talked up his ability in the new zone-blocking scheme, even predicting that he could see a few Pro Bowl selections. Meanwhile, the other 31 teams disagreed. If the Pack really wanted Colledge they could have waited another round or two.
Just 3 picks after Colledge, the Chargers took Marcus McNeil, who has been to two Pro Bowls. And McNeil had been higher rated than Colledge, i.e., not a sleeper.
In round 3, the Bengals took Andrew Whitworth, who plays LT, is a team captain and blocks for a top NFL running game and a line that allows very few sacks.
In round 4 of the same year, the Steelers got a real sleeper in RT, Willie Colon out of Hofstra. The Steelers are a team that has had success at finding sleepers in LATER rounds. However, they don’t take chances in the earlier rounds.
We don’t need a GM genius, just someone who’ll make ‘sure’ picks in the early rounds and find an occasional sleeper in later rounds.

by MikeDB on Nov 11, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are playing a very ridiculous game. You make a LOT of assumptions here…first and biggest is that a player who is successful on one team will be as successful on another. Just because a player turned out to be a stud on one team doesn’t meant that happens with another. Second is that those players you mention may or may not be a good fit for the kind of system in place. Third, this game could be played with every team in every draft. Yeah we missed out on Barry Sanders too to draft Mandarich…how would the Packers have been different with that change? I could spend DAYS playing this game.

Now TT made a bad pick here…we understand that but this game you are playing is ridiculous.

by TrevorR on Nov 11, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A little overboard

I did go overboard with the Colledge thing. I was just trying to use an example, but any example like that is full of problems. I’ve actually like Colledge, seems like a good person and usually a decent lineman.

However, I think the principle idea is correct. TT likes to pick sleepers, and often too early in the draft. While there is no such thing as a ‘sure thing’, some players come pretty close. And in the first three rounds, you’ve really got to get some quality players, rather trying to discover the hidden future star that would most likely still be available a round later.

by MikeDB on Nov 11, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

People do go overboard

on their criticism of TT’s drafting record. I kinda see what you’re saying but to suggest that TT only drafts “sleepers” so he can look like a genius is insinuating an awful lot, imo. How can you assume to know the reasons behind TT’s draft choices? And if TT has such a massive ego as suggested (not necessarily by you in this comment, but its a common comment) and runs the team differently than many traditionally do simply to prove how much smarter he is than everyone else in the league, then I would question the people who hired him. It’s not like he had never worked for them before. They had to know what he was like personally before he even interviewed for the position. People have blasted TT for a few years now but no one ever mentions that he was actually hired for the job. He didn’t force his way into the position and demand that he should be given the GM position or given his release (sorry, couldn’t help myself there). Whoever hired him apparently bears no responsibility.

This post isn’t meant as an attack on you, MikeDB. Just a summary of thoughts regarding TT draft criticisms. Everyone always mentions Harrell as proof that TT can’t draft to save his life, but they never bring up T-Buck, Mark D’Onofrio, Antwan Edwards, or Fred Vinson when discussing Ron Wolf’s draft history (which was extremely good btw, not intended as an insult to Wolf). Those guys were terrible but they never get brought up.

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Nov 11, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I brought up a pretty long list of all his first rounders. There were very few all pro studs in the first round. Some good players and role players but most of his gems came later in the draft.

by TrevorR on Nov 11, 2009 11:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hear you and agree to a degree but Colledge actually did look very good in his beginning years and did show a lot promise. He was one of our better o-lineman a couple years ago, and was good in his rookie year as well.

But he seems to now be on a downward spiral and I’m glad Lang is replacing him because Lang has shown great potential, especially as a run blocker.

by packallday555 on Nov 11, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

We need to draft a LT or RT high in this years draft. Spitz is probably our best o-lineman, unfortunately he is on out for the year. But looking at next year I think Spitz and Sitton are the only guys that should remain starters.

Colledge is way to ineffective, and that problem might be solved as it sounds like MM is ready to replace him with Lang at LG. I think and hope we’ll draft a T with our 1st round pick, and then pick up a veteran guy to play the other spot.

If we had even an average o-line things would be much, much different for us this year.

by packallday555 on Nov 11, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

unless

we trade that first rounder for STEVEN JACKSON!!!! Please oh please Ted…that would be a great little gift! Then use the rest of the draft to grab lineman!

by TrevorR on Nov 11, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I wouldn’t mind TT doing that at all. But from some of the things I have read the Rams aren’t interested in trading Jackson.

If we don’t make a trade, then I really hope TT will pick up a Rb and a few proven lineman in FA. I know we have some people we need to re-sign but we still are like $25 million under the cap.

by packallday555 on Nov 12, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know WHY they would do it (the Rams) but man, if he ends up on the blocks and we DON’T go after him, we are crazy. I think it would take more than a first. The rumors are that we offered a 1st and 4th for LJ back in 2007 so if that is the precident, I would say it might be more like a first and a third which would be a little tougher to do unless we could get a third back for Grant from someone else.

by TrevorR on Nov 12, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It would be really smart for TT to get Rodgers a really good Rb. That would definitely help out our o-line.

I can’t remember who said this, but someone on here said that he had heard TT was willing to offer a 1st rounder, Grant, and a 5th or 6th. Which wouldn’t be a horrible trade for either team. But obviously that probably will no longer happen seeing as how it didn’t happen just a few weeks ago.

by packallday555 on Nov 12, 2009 11:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rams

Short of a Herschel Walker type package, they’d be stupid to trade Jackson. Though he’s probably got only a couple more great seasons left in him. That’s a tough call to make for either side.

by Brandon on Nov 13, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it may not be though...

Their team needs a LOT of help. They need a QB, some new WRs, another olineman or two, and tons of defensive help. Jackson will NEVER be a part of a great team while he’s in St. Louis and they are paying him to be great and limiting his greatness. They could free up some cap space by getting rid of him as well and the Rams are in BAD shape financially. I still doubt it will happen, but I think you could make the argument.

by TrevorR on Nov 13, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right

They really do need a lot, and giving them our 1st rounder and probably a 3rd rounder plus their 1st rounder which will likely be the 1st or 2nd pick is something that I think they would consider.

by packallday555 on Nov 13, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Slocum didn't inherit it

Shawn Slocum was the assistant special teams coach for the past 3 seasons.

Campen has been around since 2004. So we probably know what they are both capable of doing having watched Packer games the past three seasons. Campen hasn’t coached Colledge or Barbre into solid players, but Wells, Spitz, and Sitton are all mid to late round draft choices that have become good NFL starters under Campen. So I guess that makes me more critical of Slocum then Campen.

by Brandon on Nov 10, 2009 11:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Can't disagree, but ...

Slocum didn’t completely inherit it, that is correct.
As for Campen, he is in his 3rd year as THE offensive line coach. My assumption, possibly incorrect, is that as an assistant the previous 3 years, he would have been responsible only/mostly for the individual development of linemen. He’d work on technique and their responsibility in the line. However, as the main offensive line coach, I assume that his responsibilities are more extensive. And the line seems to be getting progressively worse under his watch.

by MikeDB on Nov 11, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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