Packers: Tuesday Practice and No. 1 Ranked Defense
by Brandon on Dec 2, 2009 7:00 AM CST
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
Email
PrintThere was not a lot going on during the Green Bay Packers first practice since their game against the Lions.
Rob Demovsky did a good job complying some quotes from players re: the news that they have the No. 1 ranked defense. And yes, the defense really is that good, so agrees Football Outsiders.
It's funny about the rankings at FO: they have a nearly identical ranking against the pass (-16.3%, No. 3 overall) as against the run (-16.5%, No. 3 overall). At FO, a negative ranking is good for defense and usually one unit is better than the other. For example, the Jets and Eagles have great defenses (both in the top 5), but for both teams, their pass defense is excellent while their run defense is closer to average. The Saints are No. 5 overall, but their league best pass defense is being dragged down by one of the worst run defenses in the NFL.
And the rankings at FO have taken into account that the Packers D has played some of the worst offenses in the NFL (Browns, Lions (twice), Rams, Bears, Bucs). If you look at the shaded column to the right here (follow the link), the defense's actual overall ranking without opponent adjustment is -22.6%, which is several percentage points better than the next best defense: the Eagles at -15.8%.
50 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Why does it not feel like we have been watching a team with a #1 ranked Defense?
A. Because we allowed a winless Tampa team to rack up 30+ on us.
B. Because we are watching a brand new defensive scheme
C. Because they didn’t show up for either of the two Viking games
D. Because the rankings should be determined by points given up not yardage
Green and Gold / Black and White
Good points
It’s kind of hard to look at our defense and think their the best in the league. I think we do have a great defense and I think it’s been on display these past 3 weeks for a couple of reasons. First, and foremost, Capers finally starting calling games more aggressive. He did in the Bears game and my oh my, did it ever work. Then Bigby went down with an injury and Capers kind of shied away with from his aggressive style we saw week 1.
I think many of us thought with Bigby’s return would come Capers aggressive style but it didn’t. This didn’t necessarily hurt us against the Rams, Lions, or Browns but it sure as hell did against the Vikings. I had watched the 49ers 3-4 defense blitz Favre week 3, and I couldn’t wait to see us do the same… Instead Capers took a far too conservative approach, rushing only 3-4 guys the majority of the time. The pass rush wasn’t able to get there and as a result Favre sat back in the pocket as long as he wanted to.
The second thing that has hindered our defense is our special teams. In week 2 against the Bengals, we were up 14-7 in the 2nd quarter and had the momentum on our side as we had scored 14 unanswered and picked off Palmer, which led to a Ryan Grant TD. That all went away when we allowed a 60 yard punt return to Quan Cosby. As a result they had returned the ball to our 6 yard line, and we gave up a TD. Then again in the 4th quarter, we allowed a 30 yard punt return to Cosby to our own 29 yard line.
Against the Vikes our special teams was horrendous, and the Vikings average starting field position was on their own 46 yard line! Yes, you did read that right. Against a team with an offense as good as the Vikes, that is just not acceptable because even the best defenses in the NFL are going to give up a good amount of points when that’s the case.
With our special teams playing slighty better as of late, and Capers being more aggressive I’m pretty excited to see how our defense does these next 5 weeks. I don’t think we’re the best defense in the NFL but we’re WAY improved from last year and probably are somewhere in the top 10.
by packallday555 on Dec 2, 2009 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Point D...NOT true
A lot of factors can go into points. How many of the points allowed came from a turnover that directly resulted in points? How many points came from special teams allowing a TD? Sometimes a drive starts on the other side of the field due to a turnover or special teams as well. Points are NOT the best determiner of a defense…sorry.
Yeah, I think yards allowed can be a pretty good indicator of your defenses success. Not giving up a lot of yards usually indicates a team not being able to sustain drives against you, or can be because of the opposing teams field position.
Ultimately, points is what matters because that’s how you win the game but like you pointed out there are so many different ways points can be scored without it showing how good or bad the defense really is.
Our special teams play results in 10 points against the Bengals. Special teams and offense resulted in 14 points against the Bucs. And special teams resulted in 10 points against the Vikes (2nd game). Had they been to perform a bit better, we would have likely won the Bengals and Bucs game and could have beat the Vikes. But special teams is a big part of the game and unfortunately for us, our unit is very poor.
by packallday555 on Dec 2, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
And
The Lions scored 12 points but Jordy Nelson’s fumble indirectly resulted in 7 points and the great run blocking at the goal line directly resulted in a 2 point safety. The Packers defense in all fairness only allowed a field goal.
Points allowed should definitely be a large factor but it should be an advanced, in depth statistic. For example, how many yards did the defense give up that led to that score. The Lions only needed like 19 yards to get their only TD so that shouldn’t fully be on the defense and if they would’ve gotten a field goal, that shouldn’t go against the defense whatsoever since they were already in range.
That's crap
Look at the schedule!!! The Packers have quality wins against Dallas and, I guess, San Fransisco. Who else have they beaten? The Lions twice (they are 2 – 9), the Bears (4 – 7), the Rams (1 – 10) and th4 Br0wns (1 – 10). These are truly awful teams. Playing so many of them had better result in piling up positive statistics.
The defense played terrific against Dallas, so kudos for that one. But the Vikings absolutely killed the Packers, and the Bengals didn’t have any problems either.
I submit that we don’t know anything about the Packers yet. We should know more after the Ravens and Steelers’ games.
Again what can you do. They’ve played four good teams this year, they beat two of them and lost to two of them (one of them twice). The Vikings are clearly among the best teams in the league…we aren’t as good as them…that is clear as of right now. The Bengals are a pretty darn solid team this year too that has beat down the Steelers and Ravens TWICE and has a chance to beat the Vikes in a few weeks. We aren’t quite as good as them either though we were VERY competitive and it was very early in the year.
So what do you want us to do, make up ficticious games and judgements based on what hasn’t happened? Do you make judgements based on how a team played early in the year or how they are playing now? When you look at the Titans do you think of a team that started 0-6 or a team that is on a 5 game winning streak and looking very good. They lost to some bad teams then too but something clicked…I think that is the case here too. Aside from the Bucs game which was really flukey, this team has been playing at a very high level for the past few weeks. They can still improve a LOT but they aren’t the team we saw in weeks 2 and 3.
I agree we’ll know a lot more after the Ravens and Steelers games…we’ve ALL been saying that ALL over in the boards.That isn’t some new thought.
No it's really not
We gave the Bengals 10 points due to punt returns because of our special teams. We gave the Bucs 17 points because of a blocked punt TD, a pick 6, and a pick that was returned to the 8 yard line.
The only team we haven’t really given points too is the Vikings, and keep in mind they’ve had their way with every team they have played aside from the Steelers. In the second game Jolly’s bonehead penalty gave the Vikes a TD instead of a FG, and that possibly could have made a huge difference.
Regardless, we have a good defense. Not a great defense but a solid one, which has improved as the year has gone on. The Cowboys have a top 5 offense, and we held them to virtually nothing aside from a garbage time TD. You just don’t just get lucky and shut down an offense as good as their’s without having some talent and ability on defense.
by packallday555 on Dec 4, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
disagree
The only team we haven’t really given points too is the Vikings, and keep in mind they’ve had their way with every team they have played aside from the Steelers.
Percy Harvin actually had a couple huge returns in both games and like you mentioned, Jolly gave them 7 instead of 3. The Packers looked like they were gonna come back and win and then Harvin had that huge return to set up 7 more points in the game at Lambeau.
I don’t think the Packers defense played real well in either Vikings game but if you have Bigby in the first game instead of a fresh off the bus Derrick Martin and the Packers special teams and offense didn’t let the Vikings start at mid field for a chunk of the second game, the defense actually was solid overall. The Vikings average starting position was at like the 49 yard line for goodness sake.
And in regards to the Vikings having their way with every team except the Steelers, that just isn’t true. They’re playing great right now so I think people forget that they got lucky against the 49ers and the Ravens. If the 49ers secondary caught of few of those INT’s and the Ravens make a field goal, they’re 8-3 right now. Throw out the Packers lousy special teams in the second game and the division could be tied up right now. That’s interesting to think about considering Winfield has been the Vikings only serious injury this entire season.
FALSE
The Vikings beat the Packers like a drum. It was sickening. The score was no indication of how close the games weren’t. Favre and Childress did what they had to do. If they needed more points from the offense, they would have gotten them. Easily.
They just are better then we are plain and simple. Turnovers killed us in our first game and special teams killed us the second game. And the o-line was equally bad in both. Had we been able to put a complete game together in either, I think we could have won but we couldn’t do that and we lost because of it.
by packallday555 on Dec 4, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
A. Because we allowed a winless Tampa team to rack up 30+ on us.
Of those 30+ points, 14 were the direct result of an INT return and a blocked punt, 14 points were a result of TD drives of 8 yards (after an INT) & 17 yards (after a KO). Just 10 points were the result of the 2 sustained drives the defense allowed on that day.
Godspeed...
by _William_ on Dec 2, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
AMEN
Its ignorant to just say a defensive unit sucks cause they’ve allowed a bunch of points. In fact I would argue the points are actually covering up the greatness of this unit. If not for a discusting ST unit this team would likely still be in competition for the division and be the clear favorite wild card.
3 TDs
I agree generally that the reason they allowed 38 points to the Bucs wasn’t just because of the defense. But they did struggle in the 4th quarter, and allowed 3 passing TDs from Josh Freeman in his 1st career NFL start. That was not the defense’s best game.
But another good point is that it was just one game, and you can’t make a sweeping judgment about any team on just one game.
Our Defense
The biggest thing that overshadows our defense is our poor Special Teams play. You cannot expect a defense to succeed when you give Minnesota an average starting position on the field at the 46 yard line. It’s not a great defense, but it’s solid. Our pass rush could improve, but our Pass D is still solid. We still have a lot of work to do on that in preparation for when we play against the better teams if we make the playoffs.
The biggest difference between our defense this year from last year is our ability to stop the run. We could not stop the run last year, that’s why we went 6-10. On 3rd and short, we all knew our opponent would convert. This year, we have been able to stop the opponent in these situations. If you can’t stop the run, you will not win games. I give Dom Capers and our defense this year a lot of credit for figuring this out.
I’m glad Cullen Jenkins finally accepted his role. He is a beast in the 3-4. He may not get the recognition and glory he’d get in the 4-3, but he is one of the biggest reasons as to why we have been so successfull in our transition. If I could give him an award, I would. Defensive linemen in a 3-4 get little glory because of the sacrifices they make, so I’m proud of Jenkins for accepting that role and going above and beyond with the sacks and penetration he makes.
You make some good points in your comments above. I agree our pass rush still isn’t quite where it needs to be and it likely won’t be for the rest of the season because we are relatively weak at the LOLB spot as far as rushing the passer goes. Hopefully we’ll acquire someone this offseason who is a better pash rusher. Imagine having someone at least as good at rushing the passer as Matthews is lined up opposite of him..
Your spot on about our new ability to stop the run. We brought Capers in to, 1) stop the run, 2) make our defense more unpredictable. We have done a fairly good job at both those things, and especially as of late.
Yeah, Jenkins really is an animal. The fact that he has 4.5 sacks is VERY impressive. Like you pointed out, his job is to take double teams to allow the LB’s to make a play. The fact that he has also been able to get a good pass rush really shows how good of a player he is. But let’s not forget about Pickett, Jolly, and Raji either. Pickett is having by FAR his best season with us, and really has turned into a good NT. He doesn’t get a whole lot of recognition, but he is in the backfield on nearly every running play. Jolly has been huge in contributing to stop the run, and has made some big plays batting down passes at the line of scrimmage. Raji has contributed to the run, but what I continue to become more and more impressed with is athleticism. Seeing him run right by Detroit’s LT, tackling Kevin Smith for a 4 yard loss was so impressive. He is starting to play more and more, and I have a feeling we’re going to see more and more big plays out of him.
by packallday555 on Dec 2, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
You're Right
There is not 1 defensive lineman I can think of that plays often that worries me. Obviously maybe when Wynn or Montgomery are in there I’m a bit worried, but they rarely ever play. Johnny Jolly was an awful DT in the 4-3, I have no idea how he kept his job all year (oh yeah, injuries…that’s right). Now, Jolly looks like a polished starter that gets the job done. He has excellent awareness, does a great job in batting down passes, and gets penetration. Ryan Pickett…I’m sorry I doubted this guy and glad McCarthy saw that he was a true NT while I didn’t. Pickett isn’t flashy because of the role he plays, but he has held up and done an excellent job. I have high expectations from BJ Raji. From his Preseason play and a few plays this year, I am confident in his ability to keep our defense strong. I’m hoping he keeps getting healthy and can contribute more on the field.
Our defense is doing an excellent job because of our defensive line. Remember the hype about Justin Harrell fitting the 3-4 better? Sure, it’d be nice to see him healthy again. If he does stay healthy next year and he is as good as coaches claimed he was in Training Camp, imagine how strong our defensive line rotation will be next year! That is like having 5 quality starting defensive linemen at our desposal! Our defensive linemen are better suited to play the 3-4. They accepted that role, and have exceeded expectations going above and beyond. If there is any defensive reward to be given, as much as I like Charles Woodson’s performance this year, I think our defensive linemen are worthy of it and deserve it.
Agreed
The d-line has been huge for us, and is the primary reason we have become so much better against the run. Pickett was average in the 4-3 and Jolly was bad. In the 3-4 their both above average players, and having Jenkins and Raji only helps things out. Raji has started to play more and more as of late, and this is a trend we’ll continue to see as Raji has the potential to be a top tier d-lineman.
God I wish Harrell could just get healthy! I mean I just don’t see how hard it could be… I mean maybe if he had tried to come back not quite 100%, but that hasn’t been the case. You would think sitting out from August to May or June would be enough time to get back to 100% like he is doing now but who knows with him. It sure would be nice to have him back. As there has never really been any doubt about whether or not he is talented. The concern has always been and continues to be the fact that he seemed to get injured daily haha.
The only thing I think we need now in our 3-4 is a better pass rushing LOLB and another Cb who will fit the scheme. And who knows, maybe we won’t even need another Cb if Lee is able to adapt well to the scheme. He looked pretty good last year in the playing time he got, and looked good in training camp before his injury. Barnett and Hawk have actually looked really good as of late, and have been pretty successful on some blitzes up the middle. Matthews has been a beast, and the secondary has been good as well.
Isn’t it nice and kinda weird that going into our offseason our focus will be more on improving our offense then defense? Makes me awfully confident for the future. I think we two solid T’s and a special teams coach who knows what he’s doing away from being a 11+ win team.
by packallday555 on Dec 2, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
yes sir
Yeah, Jenkins really is an animal. The fact that he has 4.5 sacks is VERY impressive.
I believe Richard Seymour is the best 3-4 DE in the league (if he was still with the Pats, not the Raiders 4-3) and he had 8 sacks two seasons in a row if I can remember correctly. Jenkins is not only playing the run very well but if he does finish with around 8 sacks, that will put him in pretty good company in comparison with other 3-4 DE’s in the league.
Richard Seymour, Aaron Smith (PIT), Luis Castillo (SD) are the best 3-4 ends in the league, but Jenkins is coming up fast. One thing that nobody has mentioned yet is that it is really hard for opponents to run screens his way because he is so aware of what is going on during a play.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Dec 2, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
Definitely
He’s stopping the run really well, sniffing out screens, and he and Jolly are mucking up the passing lanes making it hard for QB’s to throw accurately. I don’t think he’s as good at stopping the run as Aaron Smith but he’s a better pass rusher. I think Richard Seymour is a mix of Smith’s run stuffing and Jenkins pass rushing.
Steelers
Watching their d-line get shoved around in Baltimore last Sunday night, it seemed that they miss Aaron Smith.
Jabooty you are spot on
Besides Jenkins I wold give the whole DL an award. Jolly has really proven himself this year. (besides his dumb mistakes i.e. the head butt) Raji has done a great job out there when called upon. When the D is backup up on the goalline or short yardage he doesnt try to make the play he creates the play by getting low and stacking the pile exactly what those big guys are suppose to do. And Pickett has also come back to life in this new D.
I Just Hope The Hype Doesn't Hurt The Pack
Seems every time this team starts riding high or gets too sure of itself, it flubs a bit. No one saw the O-line problems in the pre-season, no one expected the special teams play to be so sub par and certainly no one expected the loss to TB.
What I am excited about – and I don’t think it’s been talked about enough – is the fact that that Pack can go against top rated defenses and just drill them. Even in the loss to Cincinatti, in which Rodgers was sacked pretty badly, they were still in that game all four quarters. Even in that first bout with the Vikes, still close. It’s no too hard for me to imagine these guys really pushing hard and finishing 12-4. That’d be something.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
12-4 is very realistic
and would make me a very happy camper. Not many people can be down on us in that case, even if we don’t make a lot of noise in the playoffs, because this was a team that’s really gotten its act together in recent weeks and it shows from the offensive line to the defense as well.
I don’t think anyone’s doubted Green Bay’s offense- we’ve had one of the best offenses in the NFL since Mike McCarthy came on board and even with the horrible 2005 campaign (where we ranked 18th), we’ve had a top ten offense in yards or points for the past NINE SEASONS now. If you want to go back further, the only two times since 1993 that we haven’t been in the top third in offense have been 2000 and 2005- The Sherm’s first and last years as head coach.
And for McCarthy haters, consider the lessons learned from 2005- when we lost Rivera and Wahle to FA, the offensive line absolutely demolished our QB at the time resulting in his career high in interceptions and his second lowest TD total ever, and we missed the playoffs by a mile. Now in 2009, we’ve been good/lucky enough that despite allowing a league leading amount of sacks, we have actually corrected the problem (3 sacks only in the last 3 games) and are in a great position to make the playoffs. If we can somehow make a very serious push into the postseason, that would speak volumes about what a great job the coaching staff has done to get things turned around and have these guys play at the level we expect them to.
It's possible
but I think it’s a more of an optimistic view than a realistic one. To finish 12-4 would mean that they won 8 straight games to finish up and I don’t know if they’re that good. The biggest test will be in Pittsburgh #1 because the Steelers will probably need to beat them to make the playoffs as a wild card and #2 because the Steelers know Capers and this defense inside and out.
I think 11-5 is very realistic cause I almost see the Steelers as a loss unless Big Ben and Troy are both out again. Then the Packers just have to hope that the Cardinals have nothing to play for. They should beat the Bears and the biggest test outside of the Steelers game should be this coming Monday night against Baltimore. 12-4 would be amazing but I’m hoping for 11-5.
Agreed GGG,
Folks around here are making me very nervous with all this optimism. It’s very reminiscent of both the end of the preseason as well as the week following the Browns game. Or even after the Pack trounced the Bears last year. Need I remind everyone what happened next?
It’s not to say I’m not happy right now and much of my faith in this team has been replenished, but they must win a home game against a quality opponent like the Ravens before anyone here should even joke about running the table.
The bottom line is this upcoming game is arguably the most important of the season for several reasons:
- It guarantees the first non-losing season in the post-Favre era
- It legitmately earns the Packers the above-average-could-be-scary-in-the-playoffs label
- It gives the Pack two victories this season over quality, winning teams, neither of which coming when the respective opponents were playing badly or depleted by serious injuries (which alone would make the Packers turnaround more impressive than what the Vikings have done this year, imo)
- It shows this team has grown together enough to develop the grit necessary to put together one helluva impressive winning streak when it was necessary toward becoming relevant again.
Well Said
I agree that this next game is the most important up until this point but I would go farther and say the next two games are the most important stretch of the season.
A win against the Ravens means that they’ve finally put a winning streak together against a couple of solid teams under Rodgers. A follow up win against Chicago would obviously not only continue the winning streak but it would show the Packers can now beat a team that hasn’t been to kind to them in recent seasons.
I understand the optimism because the Packers are statistically ranked numero uno on defense and they’ve won three in a row but we need to be more realistic. The fact of the matter is that the Packers still have only beaten one good team in the Dallas Cowboys this season and outside of the 49ers game (which should be considered a solid W even though they have a losing record) all of their wins are against the bottom feeders in the NFL. Even more, going back to last season, they’ve really only won two games against really good opponents in these past two seasons.
Let’s wait until they put these next two games in the left column before are confidence gets so high again because let’s face it, they’ve still only beaten one really solid team.
Def Rating System
I’m not sure exactly how the defense is rated with respect to yardage, so feel free to slam me if I’m wrong.
Assuming the rating is based mainly on yardage allowed, then the Pack D rating is skewed as the poor special teams play consistently gives the opposing O a short field to work with. Most teams only need to go 60 or 70 yards to score a TD or 20-30 to be in FG range.
If the opposing O had to start at or inside their 20, then either they would have much more yardage against our D, or they would not have scored as many points.
exactly
most people on this blog are missing this point.
They all agree it doesn’t seem like a #1 defense but aren’t sure why.
The special teams is why.
OF COURSE WE DONT GIVE UP A LOT OF YARDAGE, THE OTHER TEAMS STARTS AT OUR 19 YARD LINE!!!!!
We are a solid defense, but there is no way teams are scared of us.
Not yet…
No. 1 D
The point that is pertinent, is 3rd down defense! Are the Packers getting off the field when it is 3rd down? If the 3rd down D is rated very high, it is very realistic to think that the No. 1 rating is accurate. If 3rd down D is rated very average or worse, then its easy to assume the D isn’t really doing as well as it seems w/ the No. 1 rating!
To me it seems like we arent really a No.1 D due to the fact that we are giving up alot of points. However, ALOT of those points ARE coming on very short fields, thanx to the ST disasters!
Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?!! LOL
3rd down defense
Right now we rank 4th or 5th I believe in 3rd down defense. The Star Tribune recently did an article on how the Vikes have been good on 3rd downs, and also ranked the top 5 teams on 3rd conversions and stops. We were in the top 5 in the both.
by packallday555 on Dec 3, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
3dr down D
Thats about what I thought. I remembered hearing that our 3rd down D was doing really well. In that case, it means that the No. 1 ranking is legit, IMO… If the 3rd down D is doing its job and getting off the field, then they shouldn’t be giving up alot of points, but we are.. And that is DIRECTLY attibutable to the ST play!!
Kinda hard to prevent the opposing offense from scoring when they are already in scoring position for a FG at least…
Kinda hard to prevent the opposing offense from scoring when they are already in scoring position for a FG at least…
Haha ya exactly.
by packallday555 on Dec 3, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
I get the feeling like people are looking for reasons to try to say this isn’t a very good D. Aside from meltdowns in the Viking game, this D has looked pretty solid lately. The competition hasn’t been great but in one game against a very good Cowboys offense we shut them down.
Look at it this way…here are the points the Lions have scored each week:
27,13,19, 24, 20, 0, 10, 20, 10, 38, 12 The 0 and the 12 were against us but they put up 27 on the Saints and 20 on the Steelers and they weren’t flukey points. They have a decent offense at times.
Not sayin…just sayin.
Good points
I get the feeling like people are looking for reasons to try to say this isn’t a very good D.
I get that same feeling but the fact remains we have a good defense. I don’t necessarily think we’re the best but definitely top 10, and honestly that’s really exciting. I can’t wait to see how our defense continues to grow this year and into next year.
Exactly. Despite what some people think, the Lions offense really isn’t that bad. Stafford, Smith, and CJ have all been pretty good this year. Bryant Johnson is ok, and Pettigrew has been ok too. They’ve put up some points on teams this year.
by packallday555 on Dec 3, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
I understand where you guys are coming from with...
I get the feeling like people are looking for reasons to try to say this isn’t a very good D.
But I think it is more along the lines of they think the Packers defense is pretty good but not great, and I think being rated #1 is perceived to go hand in hand with being great.
If you take away the huge special teams returns, I do think people would look differently at this defense but I don’t consider the Packers a great defense either at this point. I think what they’re missing is a great pass rush. Capers has to bring corners and safety’s to get pressure more times than not. If the front seven take it up a notch and start getting home (sacks) then this defense could be considered great by the end of the season. They’re close.
Yep
The pass rush still isn’t great. We need someone to fill that LOLB spot.
by packallday555 on Dec 3, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
Jones isn’t far off from Kampman in run support and he’s better than Kampman in pass coverage, but he isn’t anywhere near the pass rusher at this point and he wasn’t at Colorado either.
I love Matthews potential at ROLB but he’s still just a rookie and even though he’s been great up until this point, he probably won’t be dominant this season either since he’s just a rookie. I can’t wait to see how Matthews, Jones, Obiozor, and Thompson look with a year under their belt in this system next season. Could be scary.
Yeah it could be
Matthews has already been pretty good rushing the passer, and I would only expect that to continue and improve from now on. Jones has been good so far, and is definitely comfortable in the system. Now he needs to become better at rushing the passer because he isn’t all that great at it now. I think Thompson has the most potential of all of the guys we have, and I hope he can develop into something special. He has the athleticism and ability to be very successful, he just needs to become comfortable in our system.
by packallday555 on Dec 3, 2009 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
Thompson
I don’t think J. Thompson just has to become comfortable in the new D scheme… I think he needs to learn to play w/ aggression and physicality! I like him and think he has everything it takes to become a very good OLB for us, but his problem is he’s just not playing w/ enough aggression! Hope K. Greene can bring that out of an intelligent and analytical person… Thompson needs to change his mindset from analytical to aggressive and physical! He does that and nothing will stop him from being a really good, maybe great player!!!
You're Completely Right
Unfortunately Thompson’s career might never get going. He just got carted off the practice field with another serious neck stinger. He gets a stinger every month. I don’t want to sound harsh but it goes along with his softness. He’s soft when he puts pads on and he continues to get hurt.
You’re completely right that he has the physical traits to be a great player but do any of us think he has the heart or determination? I’ve played with a handful of guys like him who are amazing in shorts and once the pads and contact come around, they become passive different players.
The problem is that people are assuming that if you shore up the ST stuff that suddenly the yards are just going to automatically go up. But the problem is that its not an argument that is supported with any logic. By starting further down the field, it changes game plans and puts the defense in a totally different style of play. It also gives that offense a boost of confidence and momentum. I think it could actualy make the numbers worse. The facts are we at or near the top in yards given up both rushing AND passing which is extremely rare. We are near the top in third down conversion rates too which shows me that we are stopping them pretty well no matter where they are on the field.
We do need to work on getting more pressure but I’ve seen a HUGE improvement there. Will be interesting to see how that looks against a pretty good Ravens team on monday night.
Don't get me wrong...
I wasn’t trying to imply that the D is not good. I definitly think they are in the top ten…maybe better. And I think we have more than a couple D studs that will get better as they learn the D (except Woodson…is it possible for him to get better this year???LOL)
It is just that I think the rating system overlooks issues like consistently poor special teams play. Every team deals with occasional blunders on SP, turnovers, penalties, etc., and these things mostly average out amongst the teams with respect to how it impacts their D rating. But when one of these issues is consistently bad it can skew the results.
No rating system is perfect
I hope I'm not off base here
when I say that strength of schedule comes into play here when it comes to offensive and Defensive rankings. These are the winning % of the 8 playoff hopefuls season opponents to date.
1. N.Y. Giants .528 (6-5)
2. Atlanta .490 (6-5)
3. Arizona .463 (7-4)
4. Phli .463 (7-4)
5. Dallas .421 (8-3)
6. New Orleans .409 11-0)
7. Green Bay .404 (7-4)
And last but not least the Vikings at.333 (10-1) And considering the Vikings are one of the healthiest teams in the NFL.
Those teams in the top 5 could be scary. This is why a wild card team usually does well in the playoffs.
Giants
I don’t see how they make it back to the playoffs. They do have a brutal remaining schedule. And the injuries on defense are killing them, not to mention Eli’s foot injury and whatever is wrong with Jacobs.
Same Here
Their defense doesn’t give up yards but they give up points. Their secondary is lost without Phillips. Their lines that have been their bread and butter don’t look all that good this season.
Everyone thought the d-line would be dominant especially with the additions of Canty and Bernard and they haven’t been plus their o-line which has been very good in the past is getting smoked on the ground. I also think that ties in with Brandon Jacobs being completely inaffective this season.
Add Eli’s current injury and I don’t see any way they make the playoffs this season with the rest of their schedule unless they have a come to Jesus meeting and everything takes a 180 turn.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
