On The Packers 37-36 Loss To The Steelers
by Brandon on Dec 21, 2009 7:00 AM CST
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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PrintI already ran through a brief recap of the Green Bay Packers' end of regulation loss in Pittsburgh. The more I think about the loss, the more I'm OK with it. The Steelers didn't expose any new weaknesses. It showed that they have lousy special teams (missed FG), CB Jarrett Bush can't cover anyone (in fact, we can't trust anyone in the secondary in coverage beyond the starting 4 of Williams, Bigby, Collins, and Woodson), and LB A.J. Hawk is lousy in pass coverage. None of these things are surprises. They are still the same team they were during their 5 game winning streak, and as long as QB Aaron Rodgers keeps playing great, they can beat anyone at any time.
The Packers are still in the lead for the wild card spot. Just win the next two games, and they control their own destiny.
This loss reminded me of the inexplicable November loss in 1997 against the Indianapolis Colts, when a great Packers' defense had a breakdown against a struggling offense. The Packers went on to play Denver in the Super Bowl that year, and I'm sure everyone remembers how it went. It's not a perfect comparison because the 1997 Colts were 1-10, and they probably don't remind anyone of the 2009 Steelers.
There were only 5 injuries during the game (LB Nick Barnett, RB Ryan Grant, WR Greg Jennings, LT Chad Clifton, LB Brad Jones) and all 5 returned during the game. Barnett had the scariest injury, his knee buckled under him without any contact, but he was obviously able to shake it off.
New dime CB Josh Bell, signed back on November 24th, has apparently entered the SS Derrick Martin memorial dog house of blown assignments. Unfortunately there aren't many options to turn to. Rookie CB Brandon Underwood has been battling a hip injury, and maybe (big maybe) he could play better if he can return soon. From Greg Bedard at JSOnline.com:
On the final Steelers touchdown from Ben Roethlisberger to Mike Wallace, CB Josh Bell was supposed to play underneath Wallace at all costs. Packers had three deep safeties on the play.
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Easier said than done
Giving up 38 points to Tampa Bay (pre injuries) does not bode well for the playoffs. Another deja vu late game meltdown the result (again) of bad defense when it counts, penalties (worse in the league and a direct reflection on MM), missed FGs that come back to haunt us (remember the Bears game last year and so many afterwards), poor special teams, etc. Winning out against Arizona and Seattle is easier said than done, but here’s hoping that despite ourselves we can somehow get into the playoffs and knock the Vikings out.
Great game guys
Thanks for putting up with our banter all week. Best of luck for the rest of season.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
You as well
Heres to a super bowl rematch, eh?
"I feel like I need to issue a formal apology to the Green Bay Packer defense..."'
Trent Dilfer, 12/07/09
by PackaCracka on Dec 21, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
We’ve got a lot more work ahead of us to even think about that. We will probably end up on the outside. Good luck to you all though.
Optimism. Positivity. Win.
by John Stephens on Dec 21, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
Easy to jump on the packers right now
But they played a VERY good team yesterday, that entire offense is in tact from the super bowl last year and their D is stil very strong. We gave up a LOT of yards which is really unexcusable but they do have a talented groiup of WRs. Sometimes games like this happen…they also gave up a TON of yards too so it was just a BAD defensive game altogether. I didn’t expect to win going into the season and I knew it was going to be a HUGE challenge to win it…
We stuck with them, we lost, I think we learned a few things about our offense though…one is that they CAN in fact fight back and bring the team down for a game winning type TD drive, I really was happy to see that!
They deserve to be criticized.
This is exactly the type of win that we needed. A road win against a good team. That’s what the playoffs are going to be about for us this time around. Road games against good teams.
I’ve been harping on getting rid of Crosby for 4 weeks. Now hopefully costing us a win will open some eye’s. I doubt Mike “has every confidence in Mason” right now.
Also. Inexcusable to have single coverage in the endzone on the last play of the game. That’s coaching and fundamentals.
As far the TD drive goes. We did that a couple times last year(it was nice to see a relaxed and confident Rodgers in the last two minutes this time however). But the Defense collapse reminded of last year and our inability to hold leads in the 4th quarter.
We played a solid offensive game, but when push comes to shove we abandoned the aggressive defensive schemes that worked throughout the game and got conservative and it cost us AGAIN. The difference in winning and losing that game comes down to coaching and execution. Until Mike pulls his head out of his ass, these games will always have a way of reoccurring.
by GreenandGolder on Dec 21, 2009 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with most of what you said, except for the single coverage comment. That was their #3 WR and probably their 4th target on the team, you can’t double everyone. Obviously if people are getting doubled, it going to be Ward and Holmes…people get open, the kid made spectacular catch. The coverage was actually very good, the throw was just perfect and the only one who could make the play was the WR…credit the Steelers there for executing.
The reason I commented about Rodger drive to “win the game” was that his big rip so far has been that he isn’t able to win those games like that guy who used to be our QB! ;-) He did his job and the D reverted back to 2008 for a game…it better be a one time thing though. ugh.
WHERE WAS THE RUNNING GAME?!?!?!!?
I have to disagree.
In that situation you can double everyone. A touchdown is the only thing that gives them the win. Drop 8 back in coverage. No way anyone should have been locked up in single coverage. Much less Bell. I do credit a spectacular throw and catch for winning the game, but single coverage might have cost us the game. If you drop 8 the ball never gets to the receiver.
Your Rodgers comment was a fair one. Nice to see. He did his job. Too bad the defense and the coaches didn’t do theirs.
by GreenandGolder on Dec 21, 2009 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
Can you tell I'm stilling steaming over this lose...
The big thing for me is the confidence boost this would have given are guys. To go into Heinz field and take one from the Super Bowl Champs with their backs against the wall. That would’ve been a win that could’ve translated into something big for the playoffs.
Maybe it was enough to come close, like the Pats game the Giants played just before the end of the regular season two years ago.. But a win would’ve been a huge confidence builder. I only hope the lose can be too.
by GreenandGolder on Dec 21, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
There just aren’t enough players. In theory, yeah that would be great…but in reality its not possible. So you send 3-4 guys to rush the passer…I don’t remember what we did, but I’ll say its 3 just to err on the short side.
You throw two on Ward and Holmes (3+2+2) and that is 7 already with single coverage on a TE, WR3, and WR4 and one extra guy who’s likely a LB. I also don’t see what the second guy would have done there. He wasn’t wide open in the middle of the field it was a pass that was out of bounds that Wallace leaned over to get…it was almost indefensible.
If anything I would have liked to see some more blitzing maybe to ratchet up the pressure and force a quick throw.
I also don’t see what the second guy would have done there. He wasn’t wide open in the middle of the field it was a pass that was out of bounds that Wallace leaned over to get…it was almost indefensible.
Don’t know but it could have been the reason Bell wasn’t playing underneath his guy, though he really should have been no matter what.
If anything I would have liked to see some more blitzing maybe to ratchet up the pressure and force a quick throw.
I was waiting to see a blitz come sometime on that last drive, considering they had no timeouts, but it never did. It wa like Bob Sanders was calling the plays out there or something..
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
If Jenkins...
had gotten that sack (2nd time round) then it would have been over. Big ben’s little shimmy saved the day sadly.
No way anyone should have been locked up in single coverage. Much less Bell. I do credit a spectacular throw and catch for winning the game, but single coverage might have cost us the game. If you drop 8 the ball never gets to the receiver.
I didn’t get this either. Bell had Wallace all alone over there. If you look closely you can see Bigby running over there late, which I do not get since we had 3 safties deep that should have lined up across the endzone. One guy on the right, one in the middle, and one on the left. Obviously placement can change depending on what kind of routes the WR’s run but I’m not so sure whatever saftey was over there didn’t blow an assignment big time.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 11:39 AM CST up reply actions
It wasn't man coverage
You don’t “double cover” with 9 deep in a prevent. Everybody has a zone. Think about it this way: If Bell had been a yard in front of the receiver, where he as supposed to be, Rothlesberger can’t make the throw he made. Bell was tight, but behind the receiver. Rothlesberger threaded a needle, but Bell left the eye open.
I assume we were in man coverage, with the 3 deep safteys playing zone. On the play Matthews, Bush, Williams, and Bell were covering the 4 WR/TE’s they had run routes. Barnett was responsible for Mendenhall out the backfield, and Woodson, Bigby, and Collins were the 3 deep.
The guys in man were likely expected to play underneath their men because they ALL should have had saftey help over the top. The only problem was, Bell did not. Bigby was in the middle of the field, along with Collins. Obviously no one knows but Bell but I think he would have been more underneath had Bigby been over the top like he should have been.
There hasn’t been a lot of mention about this but how about the fact that the 3 guys we rushed on that last play were Poppinga, Jolly, and Wynn. Seriously?
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
How is it supposed to be played then? Do those guys 4 guys who had covering responsibilites cover their guys with more zone principles in mind? It appeared to me, that we matched up in man coverage with man principles with 3 guys playing zones over the top across the field. I was thinking too myself that we should have been playing more of a zone coverage but thinking about it now it’s easy to see how we actually could have been.
Whatever we were in, we had two blown assignments and I hated the way we played the Steelers defensively on that last drive. I personally don’t like always rushing 3 while dropping 8 back into coverage, especially against a Qb like Big Ben. And to make things worse, we dropped Matthews who has been our best pass rusher this year back into coverage nearly every play on that last drive. He had been giving their LT fits ALL game.
What did you think about that last drive as far as the strategy we took goes?
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
I think you tip your hat to Ben Rothlesberger
He made the play. He shook off a 300 pound defensive lineman who had him dead to rights. He threaded a needle to win the game. From Capers’ viewpoint, your options are to play prevent and let them catch the ball in front of you, or you gamble and blitz. A soft zone prevent defense is textbook when you are nursing a small lead with little time left, so you can’t fault the strategy. The gamewinner was because Bell was not where he was supposed to be. That’s not Capers’ fault.
While there is no arguing a soft zone prevent defense is normally what I would hope we would run in that situation, I just don’t think we have the right personnel to do so. We hadn’t been able to stop them the whole game through the air, and the few times we did stop them were when we got sacks or our guys drew penalties.
I don’t think by any means we should have sent the house or anything, but 4 guys from time to time would have been nice, and maybe even 5 guys once or twice. It would likely force an underneath throw, and as long as we were able to make the tackles it would have run some clock and forced the Steelers to be a bit more rushed.
Even though they only had like 2:08 seconds on that final drive with one timeout left, it seemed like everyone of their other drives that game. They didn’t seem rushed whatsoever, and it certainly didn’t help that we messed a few opportunities up ourselves.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
By the way
I really like your analysis. It’s generally insightful and shows you understand football. Much better than a lot of the dumbasses who post here.
Thanks man!
I played for a while, and was a Qb, so I like to think I have a pretty good understanding of football. I’ve enjoyed your analysis of this last game as well.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, wheres the old boy
who constantly knocked Rodgers on his record? Does this give him more or less of an argument?
Did he ever have one?
"I feel like I need to issue a formal apology to the Green Bay Packer defense..."'
Trent Dilfer, 12/07/09
by PackaCracka on Dec 21, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
He never had one. Anyone who watched all the games last year should know that Rodgers was the lone reason we had 6 wins. That argument of “he doesn’t win” games is one that will likely disappear for every after this season.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Rodgers did his part yesterday
He played very well. Rothlesberger just had a game for the ages.
Rodgers has improved markedly during the season. coninciding roughly with Tauscher’s return. I hadn’t really thought through the entire domino effect of Barbre’s ineptitude. When he played, we had to keep a TE or a RB in to help, or Sitton had to slide to help on pass blocking. This left the other weak link on the O-line (Colledge) to fend for himself, which he couldn’t handle; to cover that up, McCarthy had to use a RB. Thus, three receivers generally were all that were available on passing downs, and when they couldn’t get open Rodgers didn’t have options and held the ball (and got killed). With Tauscher, the RT position is stabilized, and so help can go to Colledge and still leave 4 receivers to run routes.
Exactly
I don’t think some people understood the effects our porous o-line play had on not just Rodgers but the entire offense. It really changed they way we played. Rodgers is showing now what he can do with an average o-line, that can at least form a pocket for him on most plays. Since Tauschers return and our o-line’s overall improvement Rodgers has looked great, and been one of the hottest Qb’s in the league.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Shocked, Frightened & Confused
This whole weekend was weird. New Orleans lost, Minnesota lost BAD, Arizona almost got beat by a very game Lions. The Bucs TRAMPLED Seattle… which isn’t as amazing unless you consider that no one expected the Seahawks to be THIS bad only a couple of months ago. And what the heck was up with that Packers/Steelers game??? I knew Mike Wallace was going to have a big game, but the game winner?! And someone PLEASE tell me the Packers have a backup kicker.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
I believe MM
Should definitely commit to holding onto the ball longer for possession time, but our running game is improving much!
That being said, kickers are paid to do one thing, make field goals…. If they begin to fail to do that, ( I say this with vomit cresting my throat) Do what Jimmy Johnson did and get a new kicker Today! ( I still hate all things Cowboys though)
Goooooo-mez!
by Drew C on Dec 21, 2009 9:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Play Calling
MM constantly harps on the fact that he wants more rushing attempts and how important they are… but he calls the plays. He directly controls the number of rushing attempts.
I agree with with Brandon.
I was really po’d after the game, but this morning am not feeling too badly about it. I don’t know why the poster above thinks it is easier said than done to win out, they absolutely should. If that happens, that would mean one loss since the TB game to end 11-5. If offered that scenario then, I would have jumped at it.
It’s a non-conference on the road loss to a desparate team. Remember, they are the reigning champs, even if they haven’t shown it lately. The frustrating part is it is a list of problems we have seen all season, with the exception of sacks. One sack, no fumbles, and no interceptions and the offense puts up 36, can’t really put this one on Rodgers and the offense.
I have to hand it to several posters on this board. I was a Crosby supporter. The predictions were correct. I don’t believe a game is won or lost on one play, but I told my girl friend before he kicked it he would miss. I didn’t say it would be wide right by a small margin, but we all knew it. This is a huge problem going into playoff mode.
The other thing many around here have been correct about is Jarrett Bush. Yep, he’s bad. Big Ben knew where to go when the chips were down. I will say if Al Harris played, we win that game. (Steelers fans would say the same about Troy P). You can’t give up 503 yards in the air and expect to win.
Boy, that field goal hurts.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
nice sig
"I feel like I need to issue a formal apology to the Green Bay Packer defense..."'
Trent Dilfer, 12/07/09
by PackaCracka on Dec 21, 2009 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
"You can’t give up 503 yards in the air and expect to win."
And yet the Pack almost did! If it wouldn’t have been for that last play were the ball was placed in the only non-defendable spot. A few inches one direction, it becomes defendable; a few inches the other way, uncatchable.
Rodgers had the most yards passing this season with 383. Plus, add the yards rushing, by Rodgers, 22, that’s 405, yards for Rodgers. Roethlisberger did have 503 passing, and only 7 rushing, totalling 510 yards.
The defenses on both teams were the creation of Dom Capers. So pretty much the identicle. The Steelers have years of experience with running this defense; and, the Packeers, less than a year. Steelers offense, with Roethlisberger, has 6 years of practicing with and learning the Capers’ defense; the Packers, less than a year.
This was actually the battle of which offense knows thier own defense the best.
I think the Packers did a great job, under those circumstances. Six years, compared to 11 months.
I'll be positive
Green Bay is 9-5 and all of the losses were competitive games. Things could have swung a different way and they could be 11-3 right now. Even though Green Bay hasn’t put together a complete 4 quarter game of dominance, they also haven’t been dominated yet this season.
they've been dominated in
terms of quarters of play, but not an entire game. Remember last year? How much better are we at this point than we were last year? I’d say leaps and bounds and a lot of it is on Tauscher’s and Finley’s level of play in my opinion
"I feel like I need to issue a formal apology to the Green Bay Packer defense..."'
Trent Dilfer, 12/07/09
by PackaCracka on Dec 21, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Take a look
at the last play, where we rush three men… Jolly in the middle is sideways by the time he gets the three yards made up between him and Ben. Holy holding batman? Should have been called, it was so obvious
"I don't know how a guy gets single covered in that situation when you're dropping eight men," Tony Dungy, 12/20/09
There has been a couple comments on the coverage for that last play.
In particular, Bell was to stay inside of Wallace b/c he had safety help over the top. I just watched the play again – thanks Cracka – and he did not have help. He was one on one and had to protect the corner. The only pass that works there was the one Ben threw, the coverage was actually very good.
Bigby started come over, but that was after the ball was in the air and he was way too far away (middle of the end zone). Pitt put three receivers on that side. Two of them ran a post or slant toward the middle. The Packers D had three deep – they were not visible on the camera shot when the ball was snapped. My guess is Bigby was on Bell’s side and faded toward the middle watching those other two routes. Was this a blown coverage on Bigby?
If only three rushed, that leaves 8 in coverage vs 4 receivers – so there could be 2 DB’s on each Steeler. What was the defense called there and what are the responsibilities of each Safety?
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 21, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
You are missing a few important hings though…first mendenhall or Moore was out there in the backfield and went out as a WR…now you have 5 WRs and 8 guys to cover them. Not to mention, we don’t have 8 corners, which of our LBs are going to keep up with that speedy Wallace?
I would have rather seen 7 in coverage and a LB blitz to force a quicker throw.
ok, I didn't watch to see if any Rb's or Te's (id there was one) went out.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 21, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly. Bell was supposed to play underneath coverage but when he had no help over the top, he probably realized he couldn’t do this because of a back corner throw. So he plays on the side of Wallace, and Ben makes a perfect back shoulder throw along with a great catch by Wallace. I don’t think the blame should be on Bell whatsoever. How can you have a safety over there helping him out? Had Bigby been where he was likely supposed to be that play likely doesn’t work.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
That's how I saw it. To me, Bell made a pretty good play there.
If he realized and adjusted that he had no help, he was in position. Man coverage can beat with a great pass (esp. those back shoulder types). If a QB has time, he can make a great pass.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 21, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
No! That's now how DBs play!
Bell was out of position, period. If he had been underneath and used the sideline, the only throw Rothlesberger would have would be to go over his head. With air under the ball, the safety gets over to make the play.
Bell screwed up, plain and simple. He wasn’t where he was supposed to be. He was tight, but he left the eye of the needle open, and Rothlesberger (to his credit) threaded it.
..the only throw Rothlesberger would have would be to go over his head. With air under the ball, the safety gets over to make the play.
Bigby wasn’t in position to make a play over the top, take a look at that replay. I know Bell should have played a tad more underneath as opposed to playing on his side, but you have to take into account that Bigby not being where he should have been could have effected the way Bell played Wallace.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yes he was.
He had his zone to cover. If Rothlesberger tried to throw a fade over Bell’s head, Bigby would have been there. Remember, the line of scrimmage was the 20 and Rothlesgerger was five yards deep and the receiver was three yards deep in the endzone and on the sidelines. A fade would have had to go 30+ yards, and the hang time would have been plenty for Bigby (if it was him, I don’t know) to get there.
Look at the replay. You can see Bigby running over from where he was at. I promise you he couldn’t have made it over there had Ben thrown a deep one to the back corner of the endzone. He was way out of position.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
You all forgot one very important thing.
If Atari had scooted over to help Bell, that would have left one of our other receivers with single coverage. None of our others are rookies, and Wallace had only one other catch in the game. Would you have rather had Ward with single coverage? Or Santonio? Maybe Heath Miller…
Your secondary did the right thing, doubled our vets and big playmakers. Wallace is just a stud, and Ben got lucky that he caught it.
Good game all around (except for both of our defenses).
"Chris! That's a terrible word! Pussywillows..."
-Lois Griffin
That's right
Bigby had a zone to cover, but you can’t say that with three deep safeties he couldn’t have had time to cover a fade in the corner and still handle his respondibilities in his zone. He would — the defense is designed for him to be able to do that without cheating.
Nice comments
but I was talkin about the hold in the trenches. Brutal.
Bell blew his coverage. He was to play underneath and he didn’t
"I don't know how a guy gets single covered in that situation when you're dropping eight men," Tony Dungy, 12/20/09
by PackaCracka on Dec 22, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Though loss
how much closer can it get? a loss by a XP in an extended 4th qtr.
Ok, the Steelers are a very good football team, even though their record says otherwise.
Playing this game on the road also made it thougher.
What went wrong ? A lot !
The defense didn’t hold up in the end, that’s the first thing that comes to mind. Why ? they got very conservative in the 4th, they could have blitzed more, sure it’s risky to put heavy pressure on Big Ben, but there’s a lot inbetween all out blitz and what Capers dialed up yesterday.
Ok, we now confirmed (again! ) that Bush can’t cover a statue (so why is he still on the roster??) A.J Hawk struggled with coverage yesterday, he didn’t stink, but could have done way better, then again, Heat Miller is a very though guy cover.
Tackling was also a big problem.
Yes, there are some injuries, but you can’t blame that all the time, good teams overcome injuries!
The offense… 36 points should be enough to win a game.
Rodgers started out horrible, ok, he didn’t get much help from the receivers either. They all pulled their heads out of a certain place… Still there are a few misques.
The first TD pass, wow, that was quite a bit of luck ! I think that was a 3rd5, and they go to the deep middle, even though the quick slant was wide open… Ok, they had a LB on Jennings which is a big missmatch, but there were two safeties over the top, again, just pure luck this was not an interception, but I’m not going to complain too much, after all it was a TD play.
This game proved (again) the Packers are an average team, a good team would not fall apart like that in the 4th qtr.
This is why I still put the blame on TT / MM.
9-5 and a one point loss on the road to the reigning champs is average?
5 teams in the NFL have better records and that record would tie them for first in 3 divisions. Great? no. Average? Nope.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 21, 2009 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think outscoring...
PIttsburgh 22-13 in the 4th quarter constitutes “falling apart like that in the 4th quarter”.
GB outplayed PItt in the 4th Q.
by PackFaninFL on Dec 21, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Haha wow, that’s funny, I didn’t even realize we outscored them by 9 in the 4th quarter. “Fell apart”…I actually laughed out loud when I read that.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
whatever !
Haha wow, that’s funny, I didn’t even realize we outscored them by 9 in the 4th quarter. "Fell apart"…I actually laughed out loud when I read that.
laugh all you want … but correct my statement from falling apart in the 4th qtr, to the last two minutes, the defense did just about everything wrong on that drive.
Sure, the Steelers made a lot of big plays before that, but still, the Packers had them beat until that drive.
All you people always give me a hard time when I say something negative about TT, sure, he’s found some great talent on defense, and a couple of receivers, I’ve never said he hasn’t. but he has also done more than his fair share of failures. It does not matter how many (if any) Superbowls the Packers go to with him as GM, he will forever be remembered as the guy who traded Brett Favre, and split Packer Nation in two!
There’s a book out, ( I love/hate Brett Favre) it covers both sides of the story, don’t know how many of you have read it, but you should. A couple of Packer ledgends are quoted in the book, people who actually know somebody inside the Packers. They point to bad blood between TT and BF, being the reason for the whole mess, most likely caused by TT’s unwillingness to improve the team by freeagents.
And that revenge is a key factor for Favre, if your boss just shoved you out in the cold after 16 years of loyal service, I’m sure you would want revenge too!
Fact is, Brett Favre has done a lot more for the Packers than TT ever will ! TT is just too obsessed with his own ego to share the glory with Favre, I know a lot of you will now go on about Favres ego, sure he has an ego as well, only difference, he doesn’t mind sharing the glory as long as his team wins !
Two things
First, I agree that Thompson is not a first-rate GM. Ignore the Favre Fiasco, and you still have a guy who is cheap and uncommunicative. Even Andrew Brandt has commented that Thompson is a loner lacking in communication skills. I see a number of personnel decisions that are real head scratchers.
Second, please drop the Favre Fiasco. Thompson screwed up by not behaving like a grownup (my view), or he didn’t screw up because Favre threw some bad interceptions in the past and we hate him for it (the “FavreSucks” contingent). At this point in the season I think we’ve beaten that horse to death.
No one would disagree about the final 2 minutes…it was brutal. Penalties. Poor coverage. Poor playcalling (maybe). But the point is you tried to throw the entire team under the bus and there was NO reason for it. So I guess the point here is, what is your point? The Packers fought their way back and the Defense couldn’t make a stop when it counted? How does that fall on TT? You can put it on MM if you want, but he wasn’t calling those plays on D. He wasn’t getting guys in the right or wrong position. How does this trace back to the GM or the HC? That was your point…back it up?
I don’t like TT…he’s kind of a glum SOB. He’s a loner, but he’s a pretty decent talent evaluator. EVERY GM has misses. EVERY GM has some bad first rounders…it happens. He’s had as many good first rounders as bad ones…I don’[t think that is a bad rap for him. I am sure many would like to see him go after FAs and he hasn’t. I’d like to see one or two key players as FAs but I don’t think its enough to just kill him.
Regarding the book and all that…honestly who cares. Honestly there is SO much more to life than Brett Favre and if he or TT was in the wrong. I am SO over all of that. I don’t see why you can’t release it? Why?
there's a comment out (anything written by Jarlsberg)
It relentlessly recycles the same cliches about TT being an evil schemer vs. Favre being an put-upon legend. Many discredited ideas first held by other ridiculously biased Favre man-crushers are quoted ad nauseum.
The most compelling of these ideas is the one where Ted Thompson is an evil wizard sent by Satan to ruin the Green Bay Packers by turning the good citizens of Wisconsin against the handsome and peerless Prince Brett. Brett fights valiantly to save the franchise from the wicked machinations of Thompson, but ultimately he’s forced to abandon his station as the long-tenured leader of the Packers’ offense after Thompson casts a spell over the team’s fan base, which turns them inexplicably against their once revered hero.
Neverthless, Brett, as befits his reputation as a man of legendary courage and selflessness, continues to fight for the honor of the Packers from a neighboring province known as Minnesota. Eventually, Brett wins back the hearts and minds of Packers nation by teaching them that the most important goal any sporting legend can hope to achieve in his or her career is petty revenge.
Thompson, exposed as the cruel, soul-less beast he truly is by Brett’s dazzling heroics as the leader of the Viking’s offense, is driven out of Wisconsin to the only location where his evil is always welcome: Dallas, Texas.
It’s truly a tale for the ages.
by 400metres on Dec 22, 2009 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's actually a robot
Generates random crap about the current situation and folds the ideas “Favre is a stud”, “Favre is God,” “TT is Satin himself” somewhere in the mix. I think we need a petition going to add an “ignore” button.
Sauce for the goose...
I hear a lot of repetition for the other side, too. Some might call it robotic. I find J-berg’s posts refreshing amidst all the rah-rah homerism.
“All GMs make mistakes”
“So predictable that you mention Harrell”
“One INT away from the super bowl”
“Judas sux” [and five million variations on this theme, which makes up a good 75% of the content on Packer blogs]
“OMG Aaron Rodgers!!!”
“You critic, are a Viking fan”
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Dec 22, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
Did you read this thread? A lot of it wasn’t filled with rah-rah homerism. Some people seem to think we’re still ok, I personally don’t agree, but we are 9-5 with a good shot at making the playoffs.
I think Jarlsberg’s analysis’ of the games are always good. It’s when he throws in the part hinting that we should have kept Favre, or that MM/TT need to go. And it’s not like he does it from time to time in his posts, he does in in nearly every one. We’ve beaten that horse dead, and everybody knows where everybody stands on the issue. I think people, including myself, just get tired of hearing it because regardless of how you feel on the situation it’s not going to change.
by packallday555 on Dec 22, 2009 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
huh?
We didn’t fall apart in the fourth? The entire game was all the same…both offenses marched down the field all game. Another example of you trying to make things up to push your agenda.
yeah that's my reading of it...
It was two teams on a wild shootout, wtih big play QBs and big play receivers making big plays against two secondaries that are kind of banged up. Last team with the ball wins. That sort of game.
I didn’t see anything resembling a “collapse”, from either side, really.
by PackFaninFL on Dec 21, 2009 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
I also blame TT. Horrible judge of talent.
The two rookie linebackers combined for only 10 tackles, 2 assists, and four sacks. What a waste of a seventh round pick on Jones.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Dec 21, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah he’s awful…TT clearly doesn’t know anything I mean geez he missed on a first rounder one year. Who does that? Ron Wolf never had a bad pick. ;-)
Let's not start another Thompson draft debate
He hit some, he missed some. I would argue he missed more than his share, but nobody said anything about the “two rook8ie linebackers.” You get no points for blowing away a straw man.
The first TD pass, wow, that was quite a bit of luck ! I think that was a 3rd5, and they go to the deep middle, even though the quick slant was wide open… Ok, they had a LB on Jennings which is a big missmatch, but there were two safeties over the top, again, just pure luck this was not an interception, but I’m not going to complain too much, after all it was a TD play.
Are you kidding? That pass couldn’t have been placed any better. Do you have any idea how difficult those seam throws can be? They had Harrison or Woodley on Jennings I believe, and both their safteys good caught a tiny bit too deep. Rodgers recognized this, and place the ball in between 3 players, and put it in the only place that Jennings could catch. It was a perfect throw and catch by two great players. Can you please take your Favre shades off? The throw was risky and great but “luck” is certainly not a word I would use to describe it.
This game proved (again) the Packers are an average team, a good team would not fall apart like that in the 4th qtr.
Are you actually being serious? When did we “fall apart”? It wasn’t like we had a 14 point lead and squandered it, and it wasn’t like our pass defense was playing well early on in the game. We hung in there and continued to throw blows with what it a good Pittsburgh passing attack.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
We all know Jarls' MO by now
Rodgers’ TD passes are pure luck and his INT’s are a combination of his lack of talent/experience and TT/MM’s incompetence. Favre’s TD’s are solely his responsibility and all of his INT’s are either pure luck or just a result of him wanting to win so bad.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Get serious !
Rodgers’ TD passes are pure luck and his INT’s are a combination of his lack of talent/experience and TT/MM’s incompetence. Favre’s TD’s are solely his responsibility and all of his INT’s are either pure luck or just a result of him wanting to win so bad.
Verno, when have I ever said that all of Rodgers TD’s are pure luck and all of Favres are pure skill ?
You have got to be kidding me ! If you read my post, I have serveal times complimented Rodgers for good throws, and also stated that a lot of Favres were lucky breaks from his gambeling throws.
You and many others here need to drink a little less Rodgers cool-aid, sure his stats are great, but he’s not won a playoff game yet!
I’ve said it before, and I can say it again, Rodgers has a lot of talent, and I have no problem or grudge against Rodgers.
My rage is against TT/MM who nudged Favre into retirement and a lust for revenge against TT. Which ended in Favre playing for the team I hate the most.
The way to go about it would be to bring in some serious free agents and send a ledgend into retirement the proper way, as SB Champion. (or at least give it a serious shot)
Enough with Farve
He showed last night that he is still the same ole QB as he was with the Packers that chokes at the end of the season the last years with the Pack. Get off the tt and mc thing with Farve. Rodgers is number 4 in stats for the season. He will surpass Farve too before its all over with …. They did the absolutely right thing letting Cry Baby Farve go… I will take Rodgers over Farve any day of the year !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by whooya on Dec 21, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
word up old man
jk buddy
"I don't know how a guy gets single covered in that situation when you're dropping eight men," Tony Dungy, 12/20/09
by PackaCracka on Dec 22, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Jarls
You tried to tell all of us before that the majority of Favre’s 300+ INTs were “tough breaks” or “unlucky bounces”. It’s clear you worship the ground he walks on, and are willing to go to any length to defend some of his weak spots. Rodgers has a ton of talent, and is a great Qb. First, your argument was that Rodgers can’t get the wins. Well, he’s done that now and will likely/hopefully end up with 11 wins this year. Since you can no longer use that you have now resorted to “well he still hasn’t won in the playoffs”. Don’t you think he deserves to at least play in a playoff game before we start talking about what he has or in this case, has not done?
We will likely make the playoffs this year, and we will then get to see how he performs. My guess is we’ll likely lose in the 1st or 2nd round, and it likely will be because of the defense or special teams. The biggest strength on our team is headed by Rodgers, and I find it pretty impressive that he can still be nearly as impressive in below freezing as he has been in warm weather.
Just please stop with the ridiculous statements. You know that Rodgers is a damn good Qb and you don’t like it because of your love for Favre. It’s about time you just realistically look at the situation and admit Rodgers is a very good Qb who has the potential to do a lot in this league. All of us who were “against” Favre have come to the realization that he still has some gas left in. No matter how much we had hoped that he wouldn’t.
Favre could have retired a SB Champion in 2007’. There were no failing units around there and the playoff picture really worked out perfectly for us to make it there. He just couldn’t get it done in that OT.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
packallday555
You tried to tell all of us before that the majority of Favre’s 300+ INTs were "tough breaks" or "unlucky bounces".
WHAT!! ?? No, I wrote that many (or a lot) don’t remember my excact verbiage, came as a result of a “bad break” like the ball bouncing of the receiver (particulary Mr.Stonehands Ferguson) and into the defenders hands.
I wrote most of his ints came because of his gunslinging/gambling, wether it was trying to force a throw into heavy coverage or toss up a jumpball when he believed his guy would come down with it. (same as many of those throws also has resulted in a big play for his team)
(and that very few of them came of a bad throw, by bad throw I mean a ball that is inaccurate or short, for other reasons than on a play when he gets hit as he releases the ball)
Haha ok. I would consider him trying to fit a ball in between 3 or 4 guys a bad pass but I guess everybody has their own opinions. My point is, you saying what you did about why he threw all his picks was like an attempt to justify them or something, and it just seemed ridiculous. Maybe that wasn’t what you were trying to do or imply, but that was how your comments came off.
by packallday555 on Dec 23, 2009 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with whooya! Jarlsberg get off the Farve thing. Brett came on ESPN and retired officially in his own words! The Pack did the right thing for the franchise and moved on! it wasn’t like the Jets where he wouldn’t commit. Come on man! I am a Farve fan and HE decided not the Pack! GO PACK!!! My first game at Lambeau 1964! When was yours! Green and Gold through and through!
by bobthebuilderyc on Dec 21, 2009 7:31 PM CST up reply actions
bobthebuilder
Yes, he retired in his own words ! But I, (and many others) still believe that was a “forced decission” because of the way TT treated him.
I saw other people here also questioning TTs people skills, and that is my main point, even though he’s proven to be a very good judge of talent, he has absolutely no people skills, and in a job as a NFL GM, good people skills should be a requirement, because such a big part of the job is relating to people, some of which have huge egos as well.
I think TT cheated the fans and the players out one last serious SB run with Favre, that is why I recent him so much.
I will probably not get over it until TT is no longer the Packers GM.
Someday I will also forgive Favre, even though he’s an ass for signing with the Viqueens.
(My first game at Lambeau was in ‘98…) Just because you’re older doesn’t mean you should dictate my opinion :-)
Are you kidding? That pass couldn’t have been placed any better. Do you have any idea how difficult those seam throws can be?
No, I’m not kidding! and YES, I know how difficult that throw is, the margin of error is non existent. It was a great throw, but it was bobled a bit before caught.
That is why I say it was a lucky break it was not intercepted. It could just as easy been picked.
My point was more that the quickslant was wide open, and that would be a safe throw for first down.
You need to start seeing the whole picture, instead of breaking down my posts into small bits, narrowing out the one thing you can attack them like som sort of religious extremist!
My point was more that the quickslant was wide open, and that would be a safe throw for first down.
Hmm, this sounds like are complaints about a certain Qb playing for the Vikings right now..
Then say the catch is lucky because the throw was not. It’s not like it was JaMarcus Russell making a perfect throw done the seam for once. It was Aaron Rodgers who has shown us time and time again these last 2 years that he can make any, and every throw.
by packallday555 on Dec 21, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
full of bologna
Jarlsberg, How can you even think of the Packers as an average team. They are a good team or they would not even be in contention for a Wild Card Spot. Look at the records over on the AFC side for petes sake… They have division leaders and some have even clinched them now that have a worse record then the Packers have and not as tough of teams that they beat or had to beat… Geesh. Mark my words the Packers are a great team and they will fly under the radar to win atleast one post season game. Are they great enough to go to the Super Bowl. No I dont think so this year, but if they had all the season starting players in there especially Harris, and a half way decent kicker. they would go far. But who knows Any Given Sunday,,,,, just remember that … its any teams game till the clock runs out…..
Jarlsberg is overly negative
But I will defend his evaluation of the Packers. I believe that the team has benefited from the softest schedule I ever remember them playing, with the Lions twice, the Bears twice, the Rams, the Browns, and the Bucs (oops). This is a schedule that an average team should be able to dominate. The test is when the team plays other average, or above-average, teams. These include the Vikings twice, the Bengals, the Cowboys, the Ravens and the Steelers (I left out the 49ers because they are between average and below-average, but not so awful as to be compared to, say, the Browns). Against these teams, the Packers are 2 – 4.
I am afraid that we will make the playoffs and then be one-and-done.
You might be right…but you might be wrong. I think they are a good team and on any given sunday they can come out and dominate. They also could come out and be outplayed. I don’t think they are just average, I also don’t think they are great either!
Our problem is we can’t ever put a full game together. We always parts of the game where we look dominant, and then parts where it’s like ok, we need to pull our heads out of our asses. I think that’s on MM, seeing as how a large part of being a head coach is motivation. It also doesn’t help that we have some poor units either.
by packallday555 on Dec 22, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Love that prevent defence
Once again it prevents you from winning a game
Crosby is our Cutler
You get inside the oppositions 30 and you have an opportunity to score…then you kill momentum and give the other team the ball.
You GOT to make those FGs inside the 40 yard line.
by Bernie's Mustache Wax on Dec 21, 2009 12:48 PM CST reply actions
Maybe its time to just stop kicking FGs…just go for it every time! Drop Crosby and fill that spot with another corner or O lineman! :-)
I only half-jokingly suggested to my brother yesterday that from now on every time we are facing 4th down and its not a punting situation we should just do a Hail Mary. At least then if it doesn’t work we save 7 yards of field position.
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
Pack Pass Defense
The Pack’s defensive stats/standing are highly misleading. Their pass defense has been shredded by every top-flight quarterback they’ve faced this season (Palmer, Favre twice, Roethlesberger) and even against a journeyman (Smith) having a good day and a hot rookie (Tampa). Woodson leads in interceptions because he has so many opportunities; he has so many opportunities because coaches/QB’s are eager to throw against the Packer secondary. Assuming they make the playoffs, the only way the Pack can get past the first round is by winning a shootout against Warner or McNabb—and then they get to face Brees or Favre. Although the first priority in the off-season is rebuilding the O-line, the secondary also needs substantial rehabilitation.
by thewrdsmth on Dec 21, 2009 1:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
i disagree with some of that. Sure the best of QBs have done well but the “journeyman” only got his yards in the final minutes of multi TD lead game and the same goes with the tampa game. Those are both VERY poor examples.
now that the win streak is over, the naysayers are climbing out of the woodwork huh??
The secondary needs some depth added at both safety and in the nicekl/dime CB’s. I would envision substantial rehabilitation as replacing 3 out of the 4 positions in the base unit. Surely you can’t be suggesting that?
Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb
IMO Al Harris will not be a plus CB next year after coming off this bad injury,
Tramon will continue to progress but CB is going to be an issue this offseason. Bigby puzzles me as well, I would not be against an upgrade there either.
Green and Gold / Black and White
AL is not the corner he’s been in past years. If he comes back? I don’t know. Tramon had an opportunity to end the game but dropped the int. The best pass coverage is a stronger pass rush! Everybody knows the QB can’t throw when hes on his butt! Ask Aaron! And Trevor “poor examples?” Their supposed to be an “elite D” not so much. Look at the win streak, all about O. They wouldn’t have to battle so much if the D could keep the other team from scoring! You said it yourself.
by bobthebuilderyc on Dec 21, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
I have a feeling...
That it’s about time for the stagecoach of place kickers to roll into town, and compete for a starting job. It’s currently stationed in Dallas where Nick Folk has gone sour, and then I think it needs to head north. Mason Crosby is giving me spasms.
Green and Gold / Black and White
:(
I was hoping we might bring him in. Despite that bad miss, he’s still 18 of 21 on his FG attempts. I know Crosby’s miss didn’t lose us that game by any means but it could have had a great effect on it. This is something that has also happened a few other games. It seems like the kicks he misses are the ones that we need most at the time, and that’s not a problem you want to have, especially with our team potentially being a playoff team.
by packallday555 on Dec 22, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
Do you mean Carney? If so, he’s on the Saints.
by packallday555 on Dec 22, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry about that!
I didn’t know he had been cut.
by packallday555 on Dec 23, 2009 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh
This loss reminded me of the inexplicable November loss in 1997 against the Indianapolis Colts
Had to dig that memory up, huh? I was blocking that quite well until now, TYVM.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
How about The Catch II with Owens catching the last second touchdown by Steve Young?
Come to think of it, we’re on the wrong end of an awful lot of these plays, aren’t we?
Sigh…
OUCH! I can’t believe you brought that up!
by bobthebuilderyc on Dec 21, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
Everybody is harping on the final TD pass
But football is a chess match you simply have to out wit your opponent.
I know this sound crazy but unless you have somebody wide open in the enzone Finley should of dropped down on the 1 or 2 yard line. this would of been the 2 minute warning. On your 1st play you burn Pitts last time out, time left about 1:55 give or take. On your next 2 plays you burn up about 90 seconds. Mason would of had to kick whats equivelent of an extra point. Leaving about 25 seconds and no timeouts for the Steelers.
As silly as this sounds the simple reason Pitt probably went for the onside kick is probably because they knew they could’nt stop our offense. If they get the ball game over If we get the ball we score and they get the ball with time on the clock.A calculated risk but look who won the game with no time on the clock. We could’nt stop there air attack so it would of been a calculated risk. Crazy maybe. And did anybody see Favre arguing with Childress on the side lines last night. I guess we know who wears the pants on that offense Aye.
The bad thing is they knew our D couldn’t stop their O!
by bobthebuilderyc on Dec 21, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
Just stopping by to say great game.
One of the best I had the privilege of watching. Your offense is really something.
Maybe the winds of fortune have decided to favor us again. Just in time for the playoffs.
Pack D
How do you let big Ben throw for 500yds??? Dom Capers D scheme! How can you not put pressure on Big Ben and let him stand there and throw the ball where ever he wants too!!! I thought at first the D just had to learn the sheme. Problem is and every GOOD coach knows the “scheme” doesn’t work if the personel doesn’t fit.A "good"coach adjusts the “scheme” to fit his players. I think Kampman had a certain concern which may prove true! This D got a false ranking due to the teams they were playing. I believe the talent is sound the game plan doesn’t work! For all “YOU” that said they played a good team, the Steelers just lost 5 in a row, which Cle and Raiders beat them. Whether its in the last seconds of the game or not! The Pack couldn’t get it done!!!
by bobthebuilderyc on Dec 21, 2009 7:08 PM CST reply actions
Big Picture
Overall the Pack still owns there own destiny. With two games left they can still be top wildcard but it would still have been a nice game to win. I think games like these can give you an idea how a team will handle a tough game in the playoffs. A win would have been a great confidence builder but now a loss just makes you question how they will handle a close game down the road. A tough loss no matter how you look at it.
http://maxsportsplus.com
packer wannabe http://maxsportsplus.com
Yeah, but..
After watching our backup corners get abused, are we REALLY looking forward to facing Arizona in Glendale in the first round???
It is
no secret about the Pack’s CB issues. I don’t think it is a secret to the coaches either. NEXT TIME RUSH 4!!!!! Way way too much time, Big ben had 4-5 seconds to throw. And the worst part is THEY KNEW sometimes it takes 2 to bring him down before hand. They talked about his ability to extend plays and yet….. they rushed three. I love Capers, Im glad we have him, the defense has improved greatly. But in that situation and Knowing what he did last year (Ben) that was a Bad Bad Bad playcall by either Capers or MM. Thay had done nothing but talk about how Ben extends plays…. and yet they gave him all the time in the world. I am shocked on MM’s press conference on Crosby. Between the close games last year and his kicking this year, I really , really don’t understand. I fricken high school kicker can make 34 yarders. Ok, Im done. Just a rant.
Oh
and on that strip sack by Clay……… how and the hell was there ever ever ever enough to overturn that is completly beyond me.
Bush
Ha, ha. Bush reminds of Ahmad Carroll. How can you not remember that train wreck?
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