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Interesting Fact !

I don't know if anyone here has posted this info before, at least I can not remember seeing it here.

In 2007, the New England Patriots gave up a 4th round pick in that years draft, in their trade for Randy Moss.

I seriously don't know why TT thought Moss was not worth more than a 4th round pick. Anyway, in the fourth round of the 2007 draft, TT selected Allen Barbre !!!!!!!!

One can only wonder how "karma" reacted to that :-p

At least, it is no doubth in the past, Randy Moss would have helped the Packers A LOT more than Barbre has... hey I'm pretty sure Moss would be a better right tackle as well (at least he could not be worse....)




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Wow Jarlsberg

most people knew that. Stop being a Thompson troll. Get your hate on a different day would ya?

Friends don't let friends be cub fans

by BIGPAMPERINO on Dec 25, 2009 11:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

AS I recall..

Thirty something teams passed up on Randy Moss…nobody thought he would amount to much aftger he festered in Oakland…even the Patriots only wanted to give up at most a third or whatever.

once again, everyone can look like such a genius if they play the “hindsight is 20/20 game”.

Only small minded trolls tend to play that game.

by PackFaninFL on Dec 25, 2009 3:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

WOW

Are you kidding me ? Yes we have solid receivers in Driver, Jennings, Jones, and Nelson…but Randy Moss…former Viking or not he is a special kind of talented. I can almost promise you he would have found a spot on the field. I just don’t understand why casual fans post on blogs like this. It just makes you look ignorant. Yes this is a Packers board but damn we all know your a fan. You don’t have to over do it.

by G-Force Nation on Dec 27, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha I know

I’m sure any team would have a starting spot for what is the best WR in the history of football.

by packallday555 on Dec 27, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Double D, Sorry I jumped all over you for you comment about Moss not starting with the Packers. I read it as serious not sarcasm, which is completely my fault. I tried to post an apology after Charlie Kelly made his post. I assume the WI-FI Hot spot I was using was more of a WI-FI Luke Warm Spot and must have dropped me before or when I clicked post. Sorry also for not re-posting this sooner. I should probably get to know a few of the poster on the board before I just go and spout off at the mouth. Again I want to offer my apologies.

"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

by G-Force Nation on Dec 29, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, relax

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Dec 27, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats some really stupid logic by your Aunt

to conclude that you wearing an Aaron Rodgers jersey makes you a traitor. In the same circumstance, I don’t think I could’ve contained myself.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Dec 26, 2009 2:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

::claps::

Thank you! TT has certainly made mistakes but he has also done very well with other picks and decisions. Gotta give him credit where its due

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Dec 26, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I'm serious...

… like I’ve said before, it will end when TT is fired ! it is so predictable, whenever I say something that’s the least bit negative about him, a lot of people her come down on me like I’m the devil.

First off, what could Moss have done in the 07’ Championship game we lost? Wouldn’t have changed the fact that Favre didn’t want to be out there.

It’s very easy to make that argument now, but go back before the start of the 2007 season, who had the Packers as a serious contender to even go to the NFC Championship that year. Probably very, very few, and among them, must be quite a high percentage of lunatics and blindly naive fans.
The Packers were comeing of a 8-8 season, they had the youngest roster in the NFL, and an aging QB, they didn’t bring in anybody to improve the team, TT was building with the draft, and that year he did his biggest draft bust so far (Bustin Harrell).

Adding Moss to that team would have made them instant contenders ! Consider Driver, Jennings and Moss on the field at the same team ! who do you double-cover ?? Who you choose doesn’t really matter, especially with Favre at QB.
And to answer your actual question, yes, I do belive RM would have made a difference in that NFC Championship game (if you believe otherwise, that’s fine with me) Why ? In those conditions, haveing a big physical, fast wr with great hands really helps a team, just look at what Plaxico Burres did to Al Harris that day.
Clutch16, I do understand your feelings for RM in regards to the pic you posted, but if haveing him on the team would have brought the title back to Green Bay, I believe you (and others) would have forgiven him. If you say no, I call you a liar.

And to finish of some more anger at TT, even though he has brought in some great players, I have no problem giving him credit for that. But, no matter what he does, or who he brings in, he will forever be remebered as the guy who traded away Brett Favre !
That, combined with his horrible people skills, is why I want to see him fired. Haveing good people skills is IMV an essential part of the qualification for a NFL GM, after all a big part of his job is related to handeling people (many of them with big egos).

Oh, and I will not even go close to what your aunt did, I will not label you as a traitor for wearing an Aaron Rodgers jersey. I will however put a little questionmark about your ability to dress, wearing a football uniform (even a Packer one…) in a family photo is not the best choice.
And I will label you (and all others) who blindly swallows all your Thompson kool-aid and refusing to see any of his shortcomeings as a bit naiv.

by Jarlsberg on Dec 27, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And you know what? It was the right decision.

that’s your opinion (and many others) I and many others disagree. If you look back at how TT must have handled this (before Favres initial retirement) it shows how socially “challenged” (to be VERY nice) TT is. You simply don’t treat people like that.
There is obviously more to that intitial retirement than any of us know, it’s probably only Favre, Thompson, McCarthy who know the whole truth.
I don’t question TTs evaluator skills, but let’s put him to do that, lock him down in a dark room under Lambeau and let him evaluate talent, and not have anything to do with other people, except report to the HC and GM.

Maybe Jones would have been less evolved, but I think Jennings would still be playing at the level he does.

by Jarlsberg on Dec 27, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jarlsberg

Get a life!!

T.T is one of the best GM’s in the NFL. Last time I looked the Packers had 37 draft picks on their roster, 8 more than anyone else…The Packers are one of the youngest and most talented teams in the NFL and headed for the playoffs.
 
You’re not even a Packer fan, you’re a Favre fan-you’ve admitted it before in previous posts…(therefore a Viking fan) so why not go over to the Daily Norseman and comment on the Vikes GM, their coach and their QB you adore so much with your fellow Viking fans? Here’s a topic for you: The Vikings are old, the window is closing fast on their chance to win a Super Bowl. :-)

So, here's some advice I wish I woulda got when I was your age: Live every week like it's Shark Week.

by snibbodmot on Dec 27, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

snibbomot

You’re not even a Packer fan, you’re a Favre fan-you’ve admitted it before in previous posts…(therefore a Viking fan)

Why don’t go on and accuse me of some wild criminal offence while your at it ??!!!
I said I was a Favre fan, and I also said I would rather kill my self than become a Vikings fan. If your teories about all Favre fans being Vikings fans as well, I guess the Packers just lost half their fans ! You’re being redicoulous !
It is possible to be a Packer fan and still believe TT/MM made some big errors trading Favre.

PAD555

You talk a lot about how TT didn’t handle the Favre situation well but you fail to mention Favre’s wrongdoings as well.

I’ve said many times before that Favre did things very wrong to begin with as well, and YES, I do think he’s a big **** for signing with the Viqueens, even though I think it is to get revenge on TT/MM.
I beleive more and more that TT/MM told Favre privatly after the 2007 season that they would like him to retire. If that had been after a horrible season, I would have understood that (and probably Favre as well) but the fact is, the Packers were one win away from going to the SB. Yes, the game ended on a interception, but had they managed to rush the ball better during regulation time, the game might not have gone to o.t. (sure there was other contributing factors as well)

But it should be very clear to anyone, Favre has done about a 100 times more for the Packers than TT/MM.
Favre had earned his right to ponder his future every year, and he should have been given more time to decide. He earned his right to go out on his own terms!

F.Y.I – my Packers Favre jersey has been put deep down in a closet, and it will not see the light of day until Favre is inducted in the HOF as a Packer !

by Jarlsberg on Dec 28, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Great Job Charlie

by bizzle4 on Dec 28, 2009 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Charlie k

No player regardless of what they have done for a team, should be put above the team.

I can agree with you here, it is a team sport. But you still need 53 individuals to act like one team, thereby you need to treath each player a little differently.
Here’s a couple of other TT bloopers in this matter.
1. Favre called TT when he was away on vacation, TT did not answer / return his call, he told him he was on vacation. If you are a nut-tightner at some factory, fine, then you should be able to have your vacation in peace. But if you are in management, and especially upper management, you loose part of that privilige, if ANY player call him during his vacation, he owes them the respect to call them back.
2. You never, and I do mean never ask a 16 yr veteran player about his plans for next season vs retirement in february/ early march. Any player would opt towards retirement, their bodies are still hurting after a long season. it takes at least 4-6 weeks for them to heal up after a season, for a 17 yr vet like Favre, it takes even longer.
Now, TT/MM would say they needed to know before free agency so they could sign a back up to Rodgers. did they sign one ? no ! if they really wanted to sign a veteran backup, they would have done it, they had more than enough cap space.
If Favre gave his final decission before the day before the draft, that would have been fine with me. Favre had earned that privilige. and TT could still have planned out several draft options like he has to anyway.
3. To anyone that says Favre puts himself in front of the team, have you forgotten that Favre offered up a big chunk of his own paycheck (somewere close to 25% to be exact) for TT to sign Randy Moss.

Again, no player is bigger than the team (even Brett Favre vs the Packers)
But here’s some simple math for you !

Brett Favre > (TT + MM)x10

by Jarlsberg on Dec 29, 2009 5:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

FANTASTIC!

+1000

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Dec 29, 2009 7:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Awesome! +1000000000000000000000

Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge

by Bush League All Star on Dec 29, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Most players that I’ve watched retire have done it shortly following the season. Most players KNOW when they are done and when they aren’t. Now if you correct point number 2 to read:
“You never, and I do mean never ask Brett Favre about his plans for next season vs retirement in february/ early march.”

A player who respects his team and his fans doesn’t jerk them around for 5 years with months of anticipation of whether their FAVORITE player will be coming back or not…he chose to put his vendetta against TT ahead of his team and fans and that is what lost the respect of a lot of people. I will cheer my heart out for him still when he really hangs it up. I even enjoy watching all his games here in MN at times (I’ve always liked his competitiveness and the fun he has out there) but geez when he retired the first time, I was honestly relieved it was all finally over. I remember calling my dad and saying…its finally here. I LOVED the guy but he needs to just not say anything about retirement if he doesn’t know until it happens. THAT is the only thing I have to say on the matter.

by TrevorR on Dec 29, 2009 7:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

2. You never, and I do mean never ask a 16 yr veteran player about his plans for next season vs retirement in february/ early march. Any player would opt towards retirement, their bodies are still hurting after a long season. it takes at least 4-6 weeks for them to heal up after a season, for a 17 yr vet like Favre, it takes even longer.

Well if you’d remember TT and MM actually came out and said publically that they encouraged Favre to take more time with his decision. And no I doubt that was “fabricated” by the media like some have suggested because if it were Favre would have told everyone it wasn’t true in one of his many interviews in which he threw TT and MM under the bus.

Just because he is in upper management doesn’t mean the guy doesn’t deserve a nice, calm vacation. The NFL is a year round business, especially when your a GM. I’m not saying I agree with TT not talking with Favre while he was on vacation because I don’t, but let’s at least recognize that TT’s job isn’t even close to being an easy one.

by packallday555 on Dec 29, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am with you PAD555

I don’t have a problem with the GM of a team taking a week away in the off season and not wanting to deal with issues from players. Now if there is an emergency (someone dies or something) maybe you make exceptions but I am NOT of the ilk that says you should keep working while on vaca. This job is a 24/7 kinda job during the season, let these guys ahve their time off. If TT had called FAvre while he was in the Bahamas or something he would have told him to go fly a kite!

by TrevorR on Dec 29, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh man…here it is again. I was hoping someone wouldn’t get this train started again. Jarls I don’t blame you for defending your position, I just wish people wouldn’t keep re-opening this door again. We’ve discussed this ad-nausium over the past few months.

Glad to hear about the Favre jersey. I think that is how most of us would be. I don’t have a Favre jersey, but I do have a piece of art that features him and its not on my wall (even though NOW my Viking fan wife would actually be okay with it being up).

…and that is as far into this as I am choosing to go.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong

Must be difficult to root for Favre to succeed and the Vikings to fail?? Maybe it’s just me but I will never root for anyone wearing a Viking uniform. Can’t see how a PACKER FAN could do that…

“But it should be very clear to anyone, Favre has done about a 100 times more for the Packers than TT/MM.”

No, he did not. He’s one player…Brunnell or Hasselback would have been just as good with those excellent TEAMS…And as we’ve seen Aaron Rodgers is as good or better than Favre and would have been just as effective in ’07 had he been needed.

“Favre had earned his right to ponder his future every year, and he should have been given more time to decide. He earned his right to go out on his own terms!”

Again no, He didn’t EARN anything. His rights were retained by the Packers when he retired-it was THEIR choice not his. They controlled where and when he would play. Not hard to understand. THEY didn’t owe him squat. He was and is a mentally unstable prima donna who puts himself before his team.

“the fact is, the Packers were one win away from going to the SB. Yes, the game ended on a interception, but had they managed to rush the ball better during regulation time, the game might not have gone to o.t. (sure there was other contributing factors as well)”

Yeah, like Favre having one of the worst games of his career and acting like he wanted to be anywhere but out in the cold. The image of him trying to warm up his lips with those little hand warmers is stuck in my mind forever…the linemen are out there with bare arms, not complaining a bit and he’s acting like a baby.

“I beleive more and more that TT/MM told Favre privatly after the 2007 season that they would like him to retire.”

Yeah and maybe Favre threw that pick in OT so he could go in and get warm…

Learn how to spell…

So, here's some advice I wish I woulda got when I was your age: Live every week like it's Shark Week.

by snibbodmot on Dec 28, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, he did not. He’s one player…Brunnell or Hasselback would have been just as good with those excellent TEAMS…And as we’ve seen Aaron Rodgers is as good or better than Favre and would have been just as effective in ’07 had he been needed.

not even close, the Packers had a bad team around Favre for many years, especially after the SB years. A lot of that came down to Favre being the gunslinger and his will to win, leadership and so on.
for the first 6 games of the 2007 season, Favre practically carried the offense with no running game to help him, even though Rodgers gets better and better, there is no way he would have been close to that level in 2007.

Are you suggesting we should have risked QB stability for the next ten years just so you can try and live the dream of seeing Brett bring home one more Lombardi?

Charlie K.
Nothing is for granted in the NFL, do we know anything about how long Rodgers will last ? do we know how long he will be good ? no ! he could get injured, or for no reason fall into a slump whenever, of course, I do NOT hope for any of this, I hope Rodgers does well for many years to come. But anything can happen, on any given sunday.
nobody will ever question Favrs thoughness, or ability to play with injuries. It is a WIN NOW business, so yes I think it would have been worth it to make one last serious run at a SB with Favre. If they won, he most likely would have retired, and Rodgers would have stuck around. But will never know that now.
The one thing we do know, the sad truth is that Favre signed with the Viqueens, most likely to get revenge on TT/MM, whatever they did to cause that lust for revenge is what caused a serious scratch in the legacy of the Packers and one of the all-time greatest Packers player.

by Jarlsberg on Dec 29, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yikes…I have to agree with Jarls here on the first part…Favre vs Hass or Brunell? Seriously? Is this what its come to? I know most of us are a little anti-Favre since we have to watch him play for our nemesis, but comeon guys lets not get ridiculous. Hasselbeck and Brunell aren’t HALF the QB that Favre was. Lets not fool ourselves.

On the second point, I’d rather keep the packers good for a long time by ushering in the new QB era than piss him off and have him leave, leaving us with Favre for one year and then Brohm and Flynn as our QBs of the future. That would have forced us to draft a QB and honestly I don’t like any of the guys that would have been available to us this year.

Likely, even with Favre last year, this team would NOT have succeeded. The offense was NOT what kept us from doing well last year, so then we would have kept the old guy, pissed off the future and left ourselves with nothing right now. Even moreso in hindsight, the decision TT/MM made in sending Favre off to the sunset was a good move.

by TrevorR on Dec 29, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree

Personally, unless the Superbowl championship was an absolute guarantee (which it was far from) I would say a run at one is not worth risking your future. I really think Rodgers would have left had we let Favre back after telling him he was the starter (Think Tavaris and Sage’s situation except Rodgers actually has a pot to piss in) and then Favre retires (Or doesn’t, Or does, Or at least he thinks he does). Then we’re left looking for a franchise QB, which as everyone esle in our division can attest to, is no easy task.

by Charlie Kelly on Dec 29, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One more thing
Nothing is for granted in the NFL, do we know anything about how long Rodgers will last ? do we know how long he will be good ? no ! he could get injured, or for no reason fall into a slump whenever, of course,

You can use that logic with Favre as well. Say we keep him for 08, what if we don’t make the Superbowl? What if we still go 6-10? (Because to my knowledge Favre doesn’t play defensive end) What if Favre has had enough and finally retires, but Rodgers is pissed that we jerked him around and bolts?

by Charlie Kelly on Dec 29, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deanna

“not even close, the Packers had a bad team around Favre for many years, especially after the SB years. A lot of that came down to Favre being the gunslinger and his will to win, leadership and so on.”

My comment on Brunell and Hasselbeck was a slight exageration-but, either one of them could got us into the playoffs (all Favre did anyways after the “Super Bowl years”, face the facts) with the teams we had from 2002-2007. Hasselbeck was 4-4 in the playoffs since ’97 with an NFC championship and a Super Bowl loss to the Steelers (and a officiating crew hell bent on making sure the Steelers won). Brunell was 3-3. They both went to Pro Bowls…
Favre was 3-5 (2-3 at home) during the same period with those “bad teams” that compiled these records: ’97 (13-3), ’98 (11-5), ’00 (9-7), ’01 (12-4), ’02 (12-4), ’03 (10-6), ’04 (10-6)…those are the facts.

People like you act like Brett won the super Bowl all by himself…I loved watching Brett during his time with the Packers as much as anyone. But, he was just part of the team. I didn’t root for him any more than Robert Brooks or Reggie. The Pack doesn’t win the one Super Bowl we did during his time with the Pack without Ron Wolf, Mike Holmgren and the rest of an excellent coaching staff, Reggie White and the best defense in the league, a great bunch of offensive linemen, tight ends and receivers…and some guy named Desmond Howard.
The John Elway era Broncos never won anything until they got Tyrell Davis and a bunch of playmakers on defense.

I can’t understand your obcession with a Viking player. Personally, I could care less about him anymore.

So, here's some advice I wish I woulda got when I was your age: Live every week like it's Shark Week.

by snibbodmot on Dec 29, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Making the argument that a player is interchangable just because he had some success on another team is assinine. Trust me, my record speaks for itself on here about where I am with Favre right now but to get to the point where you try to say that Hasslebeck or Brunell would have done the same thing with those teams is ridiculous. Favre was KNOWN for making great WRs out of terrible one. How did Schroeder, Freeman, Brooks, and the entire crew of the 90s and 00s do after they lost Favre as their QB? They were all terrible.

No doubt, Favre doesn’t win that Super Bowl on his own…the D and Howard were AS important as he was. No one would tell you otherwise.

by TrevorR on Dec 29, 2009 8:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

More interesting facts!

Actually none of them were TERRIBLE after they left…

Schroeder went to Detroit in 2002 and in 14 starts led them in Yards, AVG. and TD’s. He was 3rd in catches. In 2003 he had 16 starts and was in the top 5 in all those categories. He played sparingly for Tampa in 2004 and retired…

Freeman played in Philly in 16 games in 2002 (1 start) and was 4th in catches, 3rd in Yards, AVG and TD’s. He ended his career in 2003 as a Packer…

By 1998 due to a bad back Brooks was out of football after playing his whole 7 year career for the Packers. He missed a year and came back to play in 4 games for the Broncos…

Keith Jackson retired a Packer after ’96…

Bebe after ’97…

Chmura only played for the Packers…

Terry Mickens was actually more productive after he went to Oakland…

Desmond Howard had his best years as a receiver with Jacksonville and Washington…

Ditto Derrick Mayes with Seattle, Corey Bradford with Houston…

My point again, Favre was surrounded by good to great players with the Packers during the “Super Bowl years”. Hasslebeck or Brunell, while not the future HOF’er that Favre is were All Pro caliber QB’s who were drafted by the Packers. They would have run the offense differently and probably just as effectively and each led their teams to the playoffs multiple times while neither one of them ever played with teams as good as Favre had…

So, here's some advice I wish I woulda got when I was your age: Live every week like it's Shark Week.

by snibbodmot on Dec 29, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your comparisons are seriously flawed. ’
Schroeder was brought in to be a 1/2 WR for the team. He dropped off from having three straight years at 1000 yds or very close to 595 and 397 yards before a very very forgetable year in TB. He was a HUGE bust.

Freeman’s worst year as a packer was his last at 800 yards after other WRs started to take over for him. His top years were 1000, 1200, and 1400 yards. He left GB to head to Philly and got 600 yards while playing all 16 games

Corey Bradford slightly had more yards one season than his best as a Packer. But hsi best 2 years as a Texan weren’t as good as his two years as a Packer. YOu could argue we never even got to see his full potential as he was sent off in the expansion draft as he was starting to blossom.

Derrick Mayes did have one great year with the Seahawks. He was a role player as a Packer who showed splashes and got a nice contract to leave. He wasn’t on the field enough to be in this discussion…he didn’t even play in 3/4 of the games as a Packer.

Desmond Howard was almost solely a return man as a Packer…he is not fair to bring into this discussion.

Terry Mickens is a nobody…lets not go there.

Don Beebe’s best year of his career was as a packer in his second to last year as a pro. He maxed out at 554 with Buffalo before getting about 700 with the packers in 1996.

Not talking about TEs…so lets not get into Chmura or Jackson.

My point is that Favre did a LOT with a little. Just about every WR that came to the Packers suddenly had career years. Show me another QB who does that and I bet you he’s a LOT better than Hasslebeck and Brunell. PLEASE don’t make yourself look stupid by being one of those guys that now tries to say Favre was average after we all basically worshiped him for 15 years!!!

by TrevorR on Dec 29, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you basically worshiped him for 15 years

but, unlike some people I don’t worship Favre…He’s not GOD!!
From his first season on I always hated the way he turned the ball over by being so reckless. How many playoff games did the Packers lose where his INT’s had a major part in the outcome? If he was capable of this God-like ability of doing a lot with a little where was it in ‘05-’06 when he really had nothing to work with…? Seems like I recall that when the team had to rely on him then he threw 29 picks.

You said Favre’s receivers were all terrible after they left the Packers and I proved they weren’t. If they were terrible they would have been on the bench or out of football. Jackson, Beebe and
Chmura only played for the Packers…Schroeder, Brooks and Freeman were worn out when we let them go and still were productive after they left. They naturally had their best years when they were healthier, younger and playing on a better team and I agree with you-a better QB, never said he wasn’t one of the best. I just think he gets too much credit and a disgusting amount of slobbering media adulation for winning ONE Super Bowl when HE should have won several MORE with the quality of teams he played on.

I’m outa here, I’ve wasted way too much time on this subject…we’re all Packer fans and there are better topics to talk about. See you around. Go Pack!

So, here's some advice I wish I woulda got when I was your age: Live every week like it's Shark Week.

by snibbodmot on Dec 29, 2009 11:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was speaking about the fanbase…not myself though I did love the guy, how could you not. I can’t believe I am the one defending him now with all the Favre lovers out there not saying a word.

The point was you DIDN’T prove it…and I showed that to you.

Schroeder would have been about 29 with only 4 seasons of actual football play under his belt. Freeman was 30 when he left. Robert Brooks was only 30 as well…try to go tell driver that he is worn out at 29/30 or any WR…that is in the heart of their prime!!

I agree, Favre gets too much credit sometimes, but you took your now hatred of Favre (which I get…TRUST ME) to a ridiculous level.

Here’s a way to end it…lets just not talk about him in here!!

by TrevorR on Dec 30, 2009 8:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Moss is many things, but he's never been what I'd call a physical reciever

He’s not TO or Anquan Boldin, he’s a quick tall receiver with great hands. Also, as uncomfortable and as off as Favre looked that game it wouldn’t have mattered if our receivers consisted of the three guys I’ve mentioned in this post. Add to the fact that the Giants had a very good front four that year that could get pressure by themselves and it just wasn’t meant to be. I believe unless Moss could cover Plaxico, there’s no way he makes us win that.

Also, I can see why they were cautious about Moss. They had the youngest team in the league with a QB that at the time was coming off a very bad season and a avery average one. Given Moss’ history, it’s not hard to believe that if things went south quickly, Moss would start acting like he did in Oakland and a player like that could also negatively influence our younger players. New Enlgand worked great for Moss because they are one of the most successful teams of the decade, they have a hard nosed veteran coach wearing three rings who won’t take shit from any player, and they have a great QB in the prime of his career.

by Charlie Kelly on Dec 27, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

EXACTLY. He is nothing close to a physical receiver. He’s an elite WR, he has good hands and great speed. He’s tall and can grab balls out of the air but he’s not physical. In fact, he avoids contact and goes out of bounds rather than fighting for extra yards…that is the big rap on him his whole career!

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay so lets NOT play the guy who looks back and says how dumb we were and lets get BACK into the timing of when it happened. Moss was coming off a season in Oakland where he had 550 yards for the year. He was accused of quitting on the team and NO ONE wanted him. The only teams that showed ANY interest were the Pats and the Packers. TWO TEAMS. He was traded for a fourth rounder. Further evidence of the opinion of the time!

As you say in this post, its easy to look back and say “how stupid is TT” but this move may have been a very divisive move. At the time, the fans were split on it I remember polls and boards where fans were saying they would stop cheering for the team if they brough Moss over and stuff. Now if it panned out like it has, he looks like a genius but if it didn’t, it could have been a very bad move for TT.

I agree with you that he would have won over most fans with his play if things went the way they have in NE…but at the time though it would have been a very divisive move for the team. While there is little risk in giving up a 4th rounder…still some risk there in perception.

Anyway, you keep talking about “when TT gets fired” but honestly, its not going to happen man. He’s doing a good job building this team. I think in the long run after his decade or so of being here, BF being traded away will be one bad spot in a resume of great moves. The great has FAR outweighed the bad so far. He’s a PR nightmare when it comes to his personality but honestly I think he’s doing a pretty darn good job. I don’t like him as a person but so far I am not going to complain about his work with team. He’s had a few misses here and there and I’ll gladly point out his bad moves, but all in all he’s done very well in QUICKLY turning this franchise around and keeping us from going through what Oakland and Cleveland and KC are going through.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Jarlsburg is around anymore

I’m guessing he choked on his caffeine free diet coke yesterday when Brennaman and Billick were heaping praise on MM and TT for their building of the team.

by Danwood on Dec 28, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oakland's 4th rounder was a higher pick

There is no way if you offered your 4th against Oakland’s 4th, that you were getting Moss. Basically you would have to beat their offer.

by PurpleJesus on Dec 26, 2009 9:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

He's talking about the trade of Moss from Oakland to New England

The Packers were never in the discussion when the Vikings were shopping him around.

by Charlie Kelly on Dec 26, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha

Oh but what garbage it is!

by PurpleJesus on Dec 27, 2009 7:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

haha…dumpster divers! :-)

One mans junk is anothers QB I guess! Right?

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

Very true… Now if that dumpster gold can stay healthy.

by PurpleJesus on Dec 28, 2009 1:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

 One thing I have always liked about the Norberts in Green Bay——- they usually avoid guys like moss. Sure, things are all good when your winning, but when things arn’t so hot those types of players are like cancer for a team.

by turd on Dec 26, 2009 9:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Former Raiders

Yes, lets talk about former Oakland Raiders that festered (i believe the word was) there. Hmm…one player comes to mind…I think he won some trophy in college…he may have attended a small big ten school….I don’t know you may have heard of him…Chuck Woodson or something like that. I don’t blame Thompson for passing on Moss but lets not use the excuse that people thought he wouldn’t amount to much after leaving Oakland. It should be obvious to all of us that players do not preform well for a reason in Oakland….they want to get the hell out ! Ifthat’s not obvious to you it should be obvious to a GM of an NFL football team. If they can’t see that…well then they need to find a new line of work. Charles Woodson, Randy Moss, and now look at the fall off in Richard Seymour’s career. Can you seriously tell me you don’t see a pattern. I’m not saying, but I’m just saying…if Nnamdi Asomugha’s career suddenly takes a dive…I don’t care what the Pack has to give up for him short of Aaron Rodgers…they need to deal it.

by G-Force Nation on Dec 27, 2009 3:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Woodson was good in Oakland..? The reason he didn’t look like an all-pro type guy there was because their defensive systems didn’t allow him to reach his full potential.

At the time, saying Moss wouldn’t amount to anything after he left Oakland was perfectly ok and justifiable. After all, 31 other NFL GMs did.

by packallday555 on Dec 27, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Huh?
Woodson was an elite pro bowl CB in Oakland. Not to mention the Raiders were in the super bowl in 2003…while Woodson was there…they were a VERY good team not that long ago. I know it seems like a couple decades, but Oakland was a top team in the early part of the decade. The Raiders were only 2 years removed from the SB when Moss went there. He was supposed to be that elite WR to complete the roster and get them back to being competitive again. Asomugha has been a raider for his entire career…I guess I don’t see the point of your post. Its filled with untrue statements.

I’ll give you the Seymour comment, but I think that is as much an attitude problem on HIS part as it is anything else. The Raiders have great players on D but he basically packed it in as soon as he was traded. He could have easily done well there I think.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me make this a little easier for you

Ok…since it’s so obvious I am dealing with casual fans here, let me spell it out for you. The NFL is comprised of 32 teams these teams meet to do battle 16 times over a 17 week season….Ok seriously now. Charles Woodson was amazing as a Raider…when Skeletor (Al Davis) was still conscious, and was hiring coaches that were capable and drafting and signing player not named Marcus Russel and Darrius Hayward-Bey. His only logic for drafting those 2 was: “They are colored…they have to be good.” Anyways back to the pattern I was talking about in the previous post. It all started when Skeletor lost his damn mind and sold yes…sold like a slave Jon Gruden to Tampa Bay. Then you noticed all the talent on the Raiders start to dwindle. Woodson was an All-Pro when they were winning. Woodson knew along with other players that the Raiders ship was going down. He wanted out…the only way Skeletor was going to let one of his best slaves (athletes) is if his production dropped off. Low and behold he was right. Woodson played opossum and Davis said tata. See when your as old as Al Davis and you actually owned slaves its hard to break the habit of running your team like a plantation. Randy Moss was looking in from the outside and said hmmm….this isn’t so bad. When he found out how things were ran he then decided he wanted to talk openly about playing with Brett Favre before he retired…because if you don’t remember he was in his last years at this time talking about retiring…see the pattern yet folks ? If you don’t want to believe it just ask Marcus Allen and Rich Gannon they will tell you all about Skeletor and how he is the cancer thats killing the once proud Oakland Raiders…off the record of course.

by G-Force Nation on Dec 28, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe that was the case but a lot of what you just said is speculation, or at least the stuff in reference to Woodson.

by packallday555 on Dec 28, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess it's just frustration

Being a NFL & Packer fan is something I cherish. When other fans casually slam other players in the NFL for their behavior on or off the field and act as if Green Bay is the Vatican of the NFL and all Packers can do no wrong, when it’s obvious we have players who have troubled pasts and presents. Yes Moss was an A-hole on the field and towards Green Bay…what would you expect from him he was a Minnesota Viking. The Packers are as hated in Minnesota as….well the Vikings are hated in Green Bay. If a Packer would have done the little moon and ass wipe dance at Mall of America Field (sorry I puke in my mouth a little every time I say that) people would have thought it was the cutest thing…“Oh wasn’t that so funny when Donald Driver wiggled his little tushy on the goal post.” You can’t blame players for things they do in their careers (on the field) especially when it is a player on a hated rival team. After all the players in this league are not just playing a position anymore…the game has evolved to where these player are also salesmen. They have to sell tickets, the have had to become entertainers as well. If you want to bash players for things they do, well do so when the Packers do so as well. Every time Double D catches a first down and runs 30 yards down field and signals first down to rub it in bash him as well. So it sounds ridiculous doesn’t it. It does to me. Let these players be what they are…let them entertain us ! You’ll enjoy the game soooo much more.

by G-Force Nation on Dec 28, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Double D

Donald is my favorite player and I hate it when he does that…

So, here's some advice I wish I woulda got when I was your age: Live every week like it's Shark Week.

by snibbodmot on Dec 28, 2009 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

buddy…you are making up arguments so that you can argue. No one made a comment about any of this. Are you really this dumb? Can you please post something that has value? PLEASE?

We all know NFL players are entertainers. We all know that they quickly change from one team to another. At least 50% of my friends here in MN wanted to PUKE at the thought of “our” Brett Favre in “their” purple. Now they love him (well they might not if he doesn’t start picking it up)…likely it would have happened with Moss if he became a packer. That isn’t the point here though…I haven’t seen anyone arguing this so what is your point?

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

DUDE!

Are you freakin kidding me? You start out with a comment about everyone else being a casual fan and then you come with a bunch of drivel and speculation about players tanking it to get out? This one should go into the voting for most retarded post of the year. Thanks and Johnny…tell’em what he won.

We ALL know about Davis being a shitty owner. YOu really think you opened the vault there on that one? WOW. JUST WOW.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Look at this guy. Flex those internet muscles a little bit more there big fella. I’m glad I got my post in on time, a few more days I would have had to wait till 2011 to get my winnings. I never said everyone here was a casual fan. It’s obvious you feel you fall into that category taking as much offense to that comment as you did. It’s called sarcasm and humor. I wasn’t trying to open any vaults I was simply playing John Madden for a moment and filling in the simpler minded fans here what sometimes happens in professional sports. I guess again you feel you fall into this category. I love the Packers just as much as the next guy, but yet I can find fault with somethings they do. Unlike homer fans (whom I can not stand and have no tolerance for) who act like Green Bay is simply flawless in everything they do. Again a category you seems to fall into. So…if you could take the Green and Gold penis out of your mouth long enough to read beyond the thin layer of the league you seem to know. That would be remarkable. I am a fan as well as a realist. Charles Woodson himself has stated these reason for his decline in Oakland. He didn’t say it in as many words as I did but, he has put it out there. Marcus Allen said it when he was traded to the Chiefs, Rich Gannon has said it since he retired. Warren Sapp, Randy Moss, and many other former Raiders have said the same. Unlike you TrevorR I look around the rest of the league for news and story lines. My football world revolves around a little more than one team, even though I cheer for them. So I do thank you for this tremendous honor you have bestowed upon me, but I can not accept, since there are so many more deserving than I. Mostly yourself. Thanks for the time my friend and I do wish you and the rest a Happy New Year.

by G-Force Nation on Dec 28, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

way to stay clear of personal attacks. nicely done

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Dec 28, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You must be new here G-Force so I guess I’ll let that go for a bit. I’ve pointed out TONS and TONS of faults. I commonly call out Packers and all teams for that matter when the do stupid things. Please before you make blanket statements that have no truth behind them at least do a little research man.

Its guys like you seem to clear out these message boards…you come in spilling some hate all over the place. You come with words filled with venom toward others and you add nothing to the board but speculation and junk.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

humor? haha oh man…that is so sad that you consider that humor. poor guy.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If one of your friends says they want to show you a room made out of pins...

Steer clear of that. Your head will be in danger of bursting…

Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge

by Bush League All Star on Dec 29, 2009 8:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh its definitely the winner of the most retarded post of the year

and considering the debates that we have had on here over the course of the year, that’s saying something

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Dec 28, 2009 8:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just wish we could get guys like him out of here…nothing has been added to this entire thread…ugh.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like their posts. Not that I agree with anything he has said...

Nor did he have a coherent point. But their views should be welcome until they become abusive or blantant spammers. Can’t ban someone on the basis of stupidity.

Looking to buy: General Manager Deputy Badge

by Bush League All Star on Dec 29, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Please tell me where my post lose coherence. Perhaps it’s the language in which the post is spoken you do not understand. English is the native language on this board is it not ?

"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

by G-Force Nation on Dec 29, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

WOW…Here he is again…he can’t let it go, and it looks like Scott Farkus brought his little buddy Gerber Dill (This is a reference to A Christmas Story I figured I should point that out to you since you lack a sense of humor) to back him up this time. LOL a guy named Verno, who is like a retarded echo on a message board. His post ooze with intelligence, “Dude relax he was joking.” was insightful considering someone posted the same thing right after my post. These two are like Big Hoss and Chumlee from Pawn Stars on the History channel or like Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne from Dumb and Dumber.

So…here we go again I will explain to you once more what it is I am saying. It is not speculation, it is not opinion. It is in fact that has been said by many former Raiders. Why is it so hard for you to understand that professional athletes do things to get themselves out of a bad situation ? I’ve been around football players of all levels long enough to know that this is true. That is all I am saying about Woodson and that is all I am saying about Moss. They are both amazing talents, they both were all-pros, they both tanked it a bit to get out of a shitty situation, and they have both proven that they still have it. I don’t blame either of them for doing what they did.

This is a message board correct ? A place to post opinions ? Comments ? Sorry I don’t copy and paste comments from other sports sites as “My opinion.” Just as everyone here knows Al Davis is a piss poor owner, we have all read that Packers article on espn.com. We don’t need you to copy and paste it. Your right I am new here, and in the 3 days I have been a member I have added more to this board than you have in the time you have been a member. I’ve offered my own personal thoughts and facts. I have offered posts beyond, DUDE, Bro, REALLY ? I’m sorry I am too articulate for you to understand (shit I used a big word and confused you yet again.) Here is a link for you http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/articulate look it up.

I can understand how you would be upset by my first post about the Randy Moss not starting for us comment from Donald Driver. I posted or thought I posted my apology but like I said in the apology the WI-FI Hot Spot I was using was more like a WI-FI Luke Warm Spot and must have dropped me when or before I hit post, so again I will say sorry to Double D here for jumping him on his comment it was hard to read the context he wrote the comment in. You though, your just a dickhead, like I said your a bully, you dislike me because I don’t back down to you. Get a life, act like a man, and realize this is not your site and not everyone’s opinion has to be the same as yours. I’ve forgotten more football in the time it took me to write this, than you’ve ever known.

This is last time I will waste responding to you and your idiotic comments. Just remember who attacked who first. If you took offense to my casual fan comment it’s you who feels your football intelligence is low. Since when is casual fan a bad thing anyways ? My father is a huge Packer fan…one of their best fans, he’s a stock holder, but he’s a casual fan. He doesn’t follow any other teams unless they play the Packers that week, and after the season he doesn’t really pay attention to whats going on…he has other things to occupy his mind. There is nothing wrong with being a casual fan.

"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

by G-Force Nation on Dec 29, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Child please

Come with some proof about any of your ill-conceived opinions and maybe people listen. I can’t even waste my life reading your drivel. Let me know if you need a dictionary to define some of those words buddy.

Maybe its time to let it go yourself.

by TrevorR on Dec 29, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the article I read recently, unfortunately I am unable to find the article which quotes Woodson…yeah yeah I know go ahead and bash me for that. That is fine I deserve it without proof but I’m hoping that this sheds a little bit more light on what I have been saying. The Woodson article is out of date and no longer in the archives for the Oakland Tribune. So I will happily eat some crow on the Woodson comments only because the article is no longer available and I agree I should have proof. Here is the other article I read though:
.

Sapp spent the final four years of his NFL career in Oakland. He’s one of the best defensive linemen ever. He’s observant, intelligent and outspoken — often theatrically so.

He described his Raiders experience as “dark as a black hole.” Sapp, in a post-retirement interview with the St. Petersburg (Fla.) Times, minced no words.

“Stuff went on in that organization that shouldn’t go on in sports,” he said. “I don’t think there’s anyone who knows who or what is making the call. Let’s just say the Oakland experience is unique.”

Carr, a return man and backup cornerback now in Tennessee, described his parting as “bittersweet” because he was fond of coaches and teammates.

“But there’s just so much other stuff going on there that it makes it difficult,” he told the Nashville City Paper.

Schweigert, a safety now in Washington, said being released left him feeling “like a thousand-pound bear” was lifted off his chest.

Porter said in February that there are too many detrimental forces at work for the Raiders to flourish. Shortly after signing with Jacksonville in March, he said being a Raider had become a “burden.”

None of the ex-Raiders seemed especially bitter, none dwelled on the topic.

"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

by G-Force Nation on Dec 29, 2009 11:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I repeat

way to stay away from the personal attacks. I don’t care if you have a different opinion on issues (not sure I have a different opinion on this though, Oakland is a horrible organization in every regard) but when someone has a different opinion it is best to refrain from childish name-calling, insults, and condescension. That’s the only issue I have with your posts.

You are right, this is a message board. A place to post your comments, thoughts, and opinions on the Green Bay Packers. When someone comments on your original point (as packallday555 and TrevorR did, respectfully I might add) you replied with condescension, personal attacks, and called Al Davis a slaveowner (which is WAY over the line). You can attack Al Davis in so many ways its not even funny, but suggesting that his last two draft busts (and they are definitely busts) were drafted simply because they are black is quite a stretch. Were those the only two available black players in each of those drafts?

I see where you are coming from with the whole leaving the Raiders can resurrect a players career thing, I do. But there is a large difference between Moss and Woodson. I don’t recall any accusations league wide being made that Woodson had lost a step or two and that he wasn’t trying at all. Those accusations were leveled at Moss. That is the difference between the two.

I don’t understand the point of this whole argument to begin with anyway. What exactly is the issue for debate? That Oakland is a horribly run franchise? No argument here. That Woodson has been great since he has been freed from Oakland? No doubt. That Moss has played much better since being freed from Oakland? Of course. Where is the matter for debate?

Frye is honestly gotta be one of the top 10 3rd Stringers in all of the NFL right now--colbyb

by verno329 on Dec 30, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you.

by TrevorR on Dec 30, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trev

familiarize yourself with the concept of the free marketplace of ideas; it’s far better to keep the boards open to even the most asinine posters and let their comments be derided by the market participants than outright censor them. Just sayin….

by 400metres on Dec 31, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well since we are talking about misses with the draft and trades...

Lets see I think there were 23 teams that missed on a QB in 2005. And hmmm.. TT was the one that hit on him. It happened to be Aaron Rodgers who is now a top 10 QB and that is being very modest. So to bash TT is unfair.

No one knew what Moss had left. The guy can be the best WR or the worst week to week. Point proven in the last couple weeks for him. 2 weeks ago? Or 3? He had 1 catch for 10 yards and a fumble. The defenders were even saying he quit that game. But then he comes and gets 3 TDs today. That is not the type of guy you want young WRs like Jones, Jordy, and Jennings (at the time) to be looking up to in the locker room

by bizzle4 on Dec 27, 2009 8:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I agree Bizzle and very well put. Just because I defend Moss doesn’t mean I wanted him as a Packer. He’s an amazing talent and deserves a bit of respect for things he has done on the field.

by G-Force Nation on Dec 28, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my gosh…who here has said that Moss isn’t an amazing talent?

Unless you count the guy who was using humor in saying that he wouldn’t even start on our team! haha

You want respect. Moss is the best talent in the league at that position. When he’s putting his full effort hes virtually unstoppable. He had PLENTY of detractors in his time in Oakland and TWO teams…two…showed interest. TWO.

by TrevorR on Dec 28, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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