Can The Lions Overtake The Bears?

by Brandon on Dec 3, 2009 12:00 PM CST in Analysis Comment 35 comments

Though 5 games remain in the 2009 season, I think everyone expects that the NFC North will finish the season with the Vikings in 1st place, and the Green Bay Packers in 2nd place. But what about 3rd and 4th place?

They've remained upbeat over at Windy City Gridiron, but it's been a rough season. They were crushed by the Vikings last week for their 4th loss in a row, the finger pointing has started, and so has the search for a new head coach.

Things are a little calmer in Detroit, despite the beating they took from the Packers on Thanksgiving. The injuries keep piling up, but QB Matthew Stafford and WR Calvin Johnson were back at practice on Tuesday.

Here's the Lions (2-9) remaining schedule: at Bengals, at Ravens, home against the Cardinals, at 49ers, and home against the Bears. The Bengals might be a surprising game because they seem to play down to their opponents. Despite beating the Packers in week 2, amongst other good wins, the Bengals have also played two close games against the Browns and lost to the Raiders. Realistically, I don't see how the Lions could win any of those games.

Here's the Bears (4-7) remaining schedule: home against the Rams, home against the Packers, at Ravens, home against the Vikings, at Lions. Could they lose to the Rams at home? Unless RB Steven Jackson has a monster game, he'll do well but I'm not expecting a RB Cedric Benson 189 yard stomping, I don't see how the Rams can win. It looks like they'll beat the Rams and Lions and finish 6-10.

But if the Lions can steal one of their next four games, and the Bears continue to lose (even against the Rams), the week 17 matchup in Detroit between the potentially 3-12 Lions and the 4-11 Bears could be a battle for last place. I'm sure the Broncos and Buccaneers would like to see the Bears finish 4-12, since they own the Bears 1st and 2nd round picks in 2010, respectively. Is it possible that both teams could finish with a 4-12 record?

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Interesting article. I keep reading bear’s blogs and some think that they’re still making a wild card playoff push.

by Tim V on Dec 3, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'll let you in on a little secret Tim V

Through my personal experiences and going to college in Illinois, I think I’ve gathered a good enough knowledge base to conclude that Bears fans and Chicago fans in general overhype their teams and players more than anyone else in at least the midwest and maybe the country.

Prior to the season they thought Orlando Pace was gonna come in and play like it was 2002, they thought Forte was the next Walter Payton because of a solid rookie season, we all know that they thought Cutler would be the best player the franchise has ever had, and some of them even hilariously thought — and still think — that Hester will become a great pro-bowl wideout.

I give them a little bit of respect for being die-hard fans but the average Chicago fan usually let’s their fandom over encompass their logic.

by GGGamer on Dec 3, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the secret...

Growing up in south central wisconsin, i frequented chicago many times. I only slightly suspected what you told me here. Because of your insight, I have finally put the pieces together. Thanks so much for clearing this up for me!

by Tim V on Dec 3, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL No Problem

by GGGamer on Dec 3, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The pot calls the kettle black

The reason that I have basically disappeared lately is that it becomes tiresome to read the same “Rah rah, our team is great” crap from guys like GGGarner. There are other blogs where fans are more knowledgeable and willing to admit OBJECTIVELY that Aaron Rodgers is not the best quarterback of all time and that Ted Thompson might not be up to the job he was given. I don’t believe in unfairly trashing players and executives, but by the same token I tire of silliness from people who work the graveyard shift at the 7 – 11 and boast of their knowledge of football acquired from their junior varsity high school experiences.

by ktenreb on Dec 4, 2009 7:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That is the problem…you don’t READ when you come here. I can’t remember a person in here saying that Rodgers is the best. Everyone in here has talked about him holding the ball too long and still having plenty of room for improvement. You are looking for sites where people just spend all their time dreaming about the day TT and MM are fired…so go back to those sites, this site has finally been a respectable site for a few weeks again. Seriously though dude…what is up your arse? You come across as a total elitist…get off your horse.

by TrevorR on Dec 4, 2009 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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You come across as a total elitist…get off your horse.

He’s a lawyer, what do you expect? His same line to me and whoever else disagrees with him is always, go back to your third shift at the gas station and blah blah blah about playing JV ball. Yet he has no clue how successful any of us are or have been in the sports or business world. I’ve said it numerous times; he’s just a grumpy old Scrooge who still can’t get over the events that unfolded during the spring/summer of 2008.

And he clearly doesn’t READ what anyone here says because if he did he wouldn’t keep saying were just rah rah and over confident. Here’s an example of one of my rah rah posts from a couple days ago ktended:

I understand the optimism because the Packers are statistically ranked numero uno on defense and they’ve won three in a row but we need to be more realistic. The fact of the matter is that the Packers still have only beaten one good team in the Dallas Cowboys this season and outside of the 49ers game (which should be considered a solid W even though they have a losing record) all of their wins are against the bottom feeders in the NFL. Even more, going back to last season, they’ve really only won two games against really good opponents in these past two seasons.

Let’s wait until they put these next two games in the left column before are confidence gets so high again because let’s face it, they’ve still only beaten one really solid team.

The pot calls the kettle black, huh ktended? Does that posts sounds just utterly over confident to you? Didn’t think so…

by GGGamer on Dec 5, 2009 1:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

GGGamer

I don’t agree with ktenreb that everyone here is rah, rah. But you always get so overly aggressive with other posters; who like it or not have valid opinions and are at least as knowledgable about the game as you are.

by Line Judge on Dec 5, 2009 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

From my perspective

Have you read any of my posts? I’m aggressive with two posters, ktended and belarus. I’m cordial with everyone else. If you think I sound overly aggressive to others, that might just be my writing style and you’re reading it differently than I’m putting it down. I apologize if it sounds any different.

I don’t think I’ve ever responded to you or read your comments on here before so I really sincerely don’t know where you’re coming from. To give you a little bit of history then…when I initially came on to this site, ktenreb immediately starting calling me names because he didn’t agree with me. Not just disagreements over football but personal names. As you can see from above, he repeatedly tells people to go back to the 7-11 and whatever. He’s just a crank and that’s why we argue. It’s basically the little kid saying, well he started it. He’s an elitist as TrevorR mentioned.

I’m aggressive with belarus because he says things that aren’t true and then won’t back away from them when he realizes he’s wrong. He will compare an offensive player to a defensive player and act like it’s the same thing. If you state your opinion and realize you’re wrong, admit it. He won’t. Then he tries to act polite and when the Vikings win he comes on here and blabs like a little kid and sticks it in peoples face. He is very two faced.

I’ve had disagreements with others but that’s the name of the game. I respect everyone on here, especially Brandon and Mitchell_M for doing what they do, but I have no respect for ktenreb and belarus. Sorry if my aggression towards them bothers you. And in regards to your last comment about everyone is just as knowledgeable as the next, I will politely disagree. Some of us have a lot of background to go off of and others just love football and love to post. Nobody’s opinions should be more or less important than others and everyone should be heard equally, but some posters do have more knowledge about football than others. Just giving you my perspective.

by GGGamer on Dec 5, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I fully support your lack of respect for those two!!

by TrevorR on Dec 5, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't

They make the posting here more interesting. Both have made valid points and seem to know a lot about the game. Belarus was one of the few posting here at ACME to predict a Pack win over the Cowboys in the week before that game. Posts that virtually shout them down are tiresome.

by Line Judge on Dec 6, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by Line Judge on Dec 6, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I read all the posts

You do the same things

by Line Judge on Dec 6, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He will compare an offensive player to a defensive player and act like it’s the same thing.

That’s not true. I challenge you to post the conversation where I did that and I will admit I was wrong. As in the past, you will make a nonsensical comment like this without any ability to back it up.

The comment about me rubbing your faces in a Viking win is also absurd. As a matter of fact, in the week after the Vike Packer game at Lambeau I purposely stayed away from ACME. When I posted, I stated that I wanted to stay away so as not to be construed as rubbing your faces in the game result, but I posted anyhow to predict a Packer win over the Cowboys. Packallday can attest to this. He answered my post saying it was ironic because he was predicting a Packer loss. Once again you are dead wrong about my reaction, and the content of my posts. What I will do is post my objection to statements made here about how the Vikings were lucky, or the game was the Packers to win if only one or two things had happened differently. I don’t care if you don’t like that.

Here’s the thing about you GG. You make things up. You put words in other people’s mouths. You resort to name calling almost immediately when frustrated because you realize that . You’re so much of a homer that you cannot take ANY criticism of ANY Packer. This site defines you. You take it upon yourself to be some sort of site police who wants to keep all things pro Packer. You cannot stand for anything less. When you cannot argue with facts you try to run the other guy through the mud saying things like “He is very two faced” to make yourself look reasonable.

Nobody’s opinions should be more or less important than others and everyone should be heard equally, but some posters do have more knowledge about football than others.

Now it’s you who is coming across as a total elitist. You are the pot calling the kettle black. It looks like more and more people are realizing that and calling you out on it.

by Belarus on Dec 6, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I do remember that actually. And it still kills me to think that you predicted a Packer win, while I predicted a Packer loss haha.

by packallday555 on Dec 6, 2009 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Alright Bro

The comment about me rubbing your faces in a Viking win is also absurd.

What about this Belarus? Right after the Vikings beat the Packers Monday night:

I rest my case Favre is a superstar. Rodgers and the Packers are wannabes. And McCarththy and Thompson are grasping. All your blah, blah, blah, GG didn’t mean a thing.
by Belarus on Oct 5, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That isn’t rubbing anything in or sounding completely childish?

And please post where I put words into other people’s mouths. You posted like 4 posts about two players who were DT’s in a 4-3 and kept trying to say they were 3-4 NT’s. You pulled out Ryan Pickett’s stats to show that he wasn’t a good player when they’re identical to every other NT in the league; 3 tackles a game and 1 sack a season across the board. You compared Brian Cushing, a 4-3 LB to B.J. Raji a 3-4 d-lineman. I don’t put words in your mouth and like you say, if you can find it, post it. You’ve denied the post I’ve quoted above for you twice now and told me to shut up otherwise and I’ve posted it twice now with no comment.

Finally, this crap about me being such a homer is getting ridiculous. In a conversation with yourself and other Packer fans, someone said the Packers linebackers were better (at the time Barnett wasn’t looking so hot) than the Vikings and I might have been the only Packer fan who disagreed. I’ve also stated numerous times that the Packers haven’t proven anything yet since their only good win is against the Cowboys, as you can see posted above.

I just posted this past week that if the Packers don’t make the playoffs then those who hate McCarthy and Thompson should get their wish of them being fired. How is any of that homerish? You are way more of a homer than I am. Just look at your rundown of the Vikings and Packers when you said the Vikings are better in basically every area. I think you might have even said the Vikings secondary was better but I won’t put that in stone (or put those words in your mouth) even though I remember some Vikings fan in that conversation said that.

Lastly, my comment about some having more knowledge about football than others is not elitist. In every area of society and with everything in life there are those who have a strong knowledge base and others who might not be as knowledgeable on somethings. I think I know a little bit about hockey but I couldn’t hold a candle to a kid from Canada (let’s say) whose lived and breathed hockey since he could walk. That’s life.

by GGGamer on Dec 6, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha

This site isn’t anymore “rah, rah” then any other SB Nation site. If you go on the Vikings site, they would have you think they have the greatest team of all time and have already won the SB. If you go to the Bears site, some people actually think they still have shot at the playoffs…And if you read the Lions site before the season started, some of their fans thought they would win 9 games! People are going to “rah, rah” about their favorite team.

And no one has ever not been willing to admit that TT might not be up for the job. Everyone has questioned the o-line he has built, and questions why we must have the youngest team in the NFL EVERY year. Whether you want to admit it or not, the MAIN reason you don’t like TT is because he traded away Favre. And looking back on it now, that was the right decision.

I would to see these other blogs that are “so much more intelligent” that you speak of. I’m not positive, but my guess is you like them so much because they are likely run by people who, like you, don’t like the way TT handled the Favre situation.

I don’t believe in unfairly trashing players and executives,…

Well I would like to know what you consider trashing then.

by packallday555 on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There are rah rah people everywhere. I think most of the people on here are pretty good about being even keeled on everything.

by TrevorR on Dec 5, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's Go Lions!

I really just don’t get what the gameplan for the Bears was supposed to be. Honestly, it was only beneficial to the Pack and ever since Lovie’s, “Our gameplan is to beat the Packers,” speech, I can only say HA-HA!

But truth told, I want to see the NFC North become the toughest division in the NFL to play in. I want to see it claim some of that scariness. That said, between these two teams, it only looks like the Lions have a gameplan wrapping up this season and going on to the next. The Lions will shore up their secondary and a record of at least .500 is pretty feasible. Who knows what kind of Bears take the field in 2010? They already have the pieces they need, but just can’t seem to muster the effort. Maybe they really do need a coaching change, just to get them moving in a fresh direction.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi

by AdamA on Dec 3, 2009 12:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya

And I would like to see the North be a tough division again as well but it would still be nice to have a bad team like Detroit where the Packers can almost count two wins a season. Playing six hard, tough, and grinding division football games a season leads to injuries and downer games. Look at the Steelers and Ravens right now. Very good teams that are beat up and only have average records.

In regards to the Bears, they really don’t have the pieces in place. They have one good wideout, a terrible o-line, an aging d-line, a terrible secondary, and older linebackers. They need to start rebuilding like the Packers did a few years ago but they can’t because they have no draft picks. I think they’re headed for a few year funk.

by GGGamer on Dec 3, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, I can see the Lions passing them pretty soon

Probably by next year. Their team is a mess and they are in need of a pretty big rebuild.

by Charlie Kelly on Dec 3, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yea

the Lions still are not good but they are improving and going up in the future. They are battling tough, hanging on in games they shouldnt be while the Bears, how do they have 4 wins? They are regressing and their confidence level in eachother is going down, (Urlacher and Culter again) questioning the coaches moves, they are just a mess and could take awhile for this team to rebuild now that they dont have many draft picks.

by bizzle4 on Dec 4, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Bears are in trouble

A lack of draft choices and poor player personnel choices would seemingly have guaranteed the Bears a basement spot in the NFC North next year and for years beyond.

Meanwhile the Lions would be wise to draft OL linemen next spring. I know they like Jon Jansen’s and Gosder Cherilus’ potential. But they still need help for an aging and over match OL. The DL is not great but I like some of their young guys in the rotation. Matthew Stafford and Calvin Johnson will get on the same page once they are both healthy. That is going to be a wicked combo.

by Line Judge on Dec 5, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bears Need

What the bares need is to dump Cutler!!! LOL Plain truth is that w/ virtually similar teams from last year Orton is winning, and Cutler is LOSING… AGAIN!!!

I never thought it was a good trade for the bares, and predicted that Cutler would throw more INT’s than TD’s… Lo and behold, that is BARING itself out!!! Nice pun huh…

Orton isn’t a playmaker like maybe Cutler CAN be, but he is a winner!!! Cutler lost alot at Vandy, lost alot in Denver, and is LOSING in Chicago… Winning QB’s are winning QB’s, they win when given the chance. Certainly at Vandy, Cutler wasn’t given alot of players to work with, but he DID at Denver and still lost!!!

by Strohman on Dec 3, 2009 1:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree

The Bears put all of their eggs (draft picks/money) in one broken basket. Cutler is as physically talented as they come but he’s a mental and emotional midget. It doesn’t seem like he really cares and as you’ve pointed out, the guy just hasn’t ever won. He’s the poor man’s losing Brett Favre. He takes dumb chances like Favre but he doesn’t have the passion to win like Brett does so I really don’t ever see him making a Super Bowl run.

by GGGamer on Dec 3, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I never thought it was a good trade for the bares, and predicted that Cutler would throw more INT’s than TD’s… Lo and behold, that is BARING itself out!!!

yes, you did, in response to some

bares fool coming to our site and posting drivel!!!

I was so certain that you were right that I saved your prediction, in order that it could be trotted out about now.
You said,

Cutler is more likely to be the Favre of 05 when he threw 29 INT’s, than the 07 Favre who led a talented team to the NFC Championship game!!! Mark it down… Cutler will have more INT’s than TD’s this year!!!

and

Cutler had everything in Denver to make him successful! He has NONE of that in Chitown!!! You go bury your head in the sand and keep believing that Cutler has someone to make him accountable! Its what Favre was missing in 05, until McCArthy got to GB, Favre hadn’t had that since Holmgren.
Mark my words… MORE INT’s than TD’s!!!

The glass is more than half-full.

by NorthStarr on Dec 5, 2009 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Cutler could be dumped

Who wants him? The jury is still out on him anyhow. He could still be good. That pass he threw to Knox last week was sick. I think the Bears big needs right now are defense and OLT.

by Line Judge on Dec 5, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

He needs another WR who has more experience, a legit LT, and Urlacher to get back from injuries. It also would help if they could get a good DT, because Harris seems to be declining.

by packallday555 on Dec 5, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I hope so

but I would like to say the all the talk about Cutler not caring is BS
you don’t get to the NFL without being competitive,
He just needs a tutor to tell him how to play the game at an NFL level

See, this is what happens when the Sox bunt.
Discord is sown. Brother fights brother. Misunderstandings abound.

-TAEG

by blackoutsox on Dec 3, 2009 3:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

tutor

You mean a tutor like he had in Shanahan in Denver? Shanahan, before he became a HC was a renowned QB coach. Even w/ a Top QB/HC in Shanahan, Cutler still threw 19 INT’s last year!

Now that he is in Chicago he has NOBODY to keep the reigns on him and force him to play the system and make plays when they prevent themselves. Instead he is taking more chances and forcing the play. At times its necessary, but Cutler does it almost all the time. Its why I predicted he would throw More INT’s than TD’s. No Accountability!!!

I used to think Cutler was the best QB in the 06 draft, now I am not so sure… Not sold on ANY of them right now. But Cutler went from a really good situation in Denver w/ Shanahan to a poor situation in Chicago!!!

by Strohman on Dec 3, 2009 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cutler

He was the Qb in the 06 draft, and has the talent and physical abilities to be a top tier Qb but he has to tone down on his gunslinger mentality a bit. In his defense, a lot of his picks this year have been a result of him and his WR being on a different page. He sees the way his WR should break and it seems his WR’s always break in the opposite direction. Obviously he is at fault for this too but I think a lot of it is the inexperience they have at WR. Hester, Know, and Bennet all have potential but Knox is a rookie, and Bennett is in his first year playing. Hester is in his first year of playing WR full time, and really it shows. They run their routes fine but when it comes too breaking off their routes to help Cutler out, they have been relatively poor.

by packallday555 on Dec 3, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On topic

No dude, just no. The Bears will win at least one more, and the Lions won’t win 3 games in that schedule.

There’s no way dude.

by Archibaldcrane on Dec 3, 2009 4:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

gotta' disagree

It’s not who you play but how you play. We tend to look at a team’s schedule and think “they’ll be in good position because they’ve got ‘winnable’ games against weak opponents,” but playing in a tough division tends to get a team ready to beat playoff-level competition. You look at Pittsburgh last year, and they had a brutal schedule all year. But, when the playoffs came, they were ready.

You gotta’ beat the best to be the best, and a weak schedule inflates egos but does nothing to actually make a team better. So, I’d say that the Lions getting better would make the Packers better. …unless they get so good that they beat us. But, even then, that isn’t what would make us bad. It would just reveal the fact that we’re bad.

by Curly Lambeau on Dec 3, 2009 4:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you to a certain extent

And looking at your argument statistically the last couple of seasons you are completely right that the harder schedule has resulted in a positive playoff push for those teams. With that said, I like a schedule like the Packers this season. They had a handful of cup cake games but they’ve also had to play a really good Minnesota team twice and they have three tough games against the AFC North. Overall there schedule isn’t statistically hard but they will end up playing their fair share of meaningful games that gets them ready for the playoffs.

If a team has a couple of big divisional games, a couple of big conference games, and a couple of big non-conference games I think having a handful of cup cake games is good in the long run to establish a winning streak and some swagger, and to get a first round bye in the playoffs. The Vikings easy early schedule has definitely helped them get on a roll.

by GGGamer on Dec 3, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs