Monday Practice; Flynn is Back, Jackson is Hurt, and Who Will Start
It was suspected on Sunday, and confirmed on Monday. "The Green Bay Packers have released P Durant Brooks, WR JaRon Harris and LB Stryker Sulak."
How to turn a great preseason awful: trade WR Donald Driver and TE Donald Lee for WR Brandon Marshall. Feel free to explain in the comments, either here or at the original FanPost, how dumb this is. Does this even count as a rumor?
QB Matt Flynn was back at practice and back at holder, but he doesn't appear to be throwing yet.
I'm not sure how bad RB Brandon Jackson is hurt. It was reported to be a shin injury, but it seems more serious if there's talk about keeping four running backs.
I don't believe that S Atari Bigby is being pushed by S Anthony Smith. Bigby has always played with the 1st team defense and Smith only did on Friday night after Bigby got hurt. Bigby hasn't had a flashy preseason, but I haven't seen him get burned either, while I have seen some dumb penalties from Smith.
The team may love LB A.J. Hawk, but I'm not a fan anymore. The 2008 season was too disappointing. LB Desmond Bishop is better against the run, and LB Brandon Chillar is better in pass coverage, so Hawk should start because...?
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a Couple topics
yes, it would be a horrible idea to move driver for Marshall. I have no problem with his skills, or his wanting a new contract. I have more a problem that he’s one more pop of the wife away from a 4 game suspension.
Why Hawk Starts. 5th overall pick. This is his last shot, so unless he gets un-fat, I don’t see him sticking around as the starter much longer.
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
The other side of the coin ...
Yeah, I tried to make a case for this trade in the FanPost, but this is the other side. Marshall isn’t just another disgruntled wide receiver, he’s a violent felon. If he hasn’t solved those issues, he’s too radioactive to bring in.
The guy has more issues than even OchoCinco or TO
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
BUT
…this is the first time he’s really been disruptive in the locker room though. He’s had great rapport with Cutler and was a good teammate until recently. He DOES have a sketchy past though, no denying that. He needs to lock himself in his house at night!
trade rumor ?
trade WR Donald Driver and TE Donald Lee for WR Brandon Marshall. Feel free to explain in the comments, either here or at the original FanPost, how dumb this is. Does this even count as a rumor?
this would be too dumb even for TT and the other stooges!
Sure, Driver isn’t getting any younger, but he’s a great team player, he’s a great mentor to the younger recievers.. Oh, and he’s still one heck of a wr. Marshall might fill the void on a talent bases only, but there’s no way he could get in-sync with Rodgers in time for the season. + the personality issues.
I don’t believe for 1/10 of a second that this will happen, but if it does, TT might as well sign his resignation papers with the Packers at the same time ! It would certainly add tons of fuel to thoose who want to see TT fired!
Hey, here’s another crazy idea, why not trade Driver to the Viqueens for Tarvaris Jackson ?? I’m sure Favre wouldn’t mind having a familiar wr up there!
Description of Straw Man
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person’s actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of “reasoning” has the following pattern:
1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
The Hawk
I really hope that they do rotate the LB’s (especially the MLBs) as much as is feasible. I hope that Bishop plays on most running downs.
I would be in favor of the trade....
but only if it was for a draft pick and the pick was determined by Marshall’s performance, similar to the deal we got from the Jets for Favre. He plays the whole season with no incidents 2nd round pick, he gets suspended 6th round pick. (Thats just an example so don’t jump on me for that.) Would the Broncos accept that? I don’t know, maybe we throw in Nelson or Martin?
I do think that if Marshall was promised that if he completed the season with no incidents that the Packers would renegotiate his contract he would be an amazing addition to an already stellar WR corps. Just thinking of the long term combo of Jennings and Marshall makes me giddy.
However, trading Driver and Lee for him though I am def. not in favor of. Driver is still a 800+ yard, 6 TD guy with no attitude problems and a leader in the clubhouse. Lee, while I believe Finley is going to be a top 5 Fantasy TE after this season, is still too valuable as a blocker and backup TE who we could trade after the season.
they wouldn't accept that because it is not Market Value
The market for a middle tier #1 WR was set last year at a 1st and a 3rd when the cowboys traded for Roy Williams
"That's not a weird stat. Rickie is a run-scorer," Yost said. "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter," Yost told reporters. "See, you guys have no concept. He's a run-scorer. So there's nothing weird about it. That's what he does."
Roy Williams v. Brandon Marshall
is apples and oranges. Roy Williams has nowhere near the issues that Marshall has, dragging his value down. Now, I am not saying that the Broncos would accept the offer floated by DelArroz, I am just saying that Roy Williams is not a good parallel situation.
Denver
In 2005, the Packers traded WR Javon Walker to Denver for a 2nd round pick. Walker was coming off a serious knee injury, Marshall is currently on suspension; both valid reasons for knocking the compensation down to a 2nd round pick.
I’m mentioning it just as a discussion about trade value. I still don’t want the Packers to trade for him under any circumstances.
Market Value
It is true that the precedence has been set by Roy Williams trade last year but Williams didn’t have off-the-field-issues. I’m ok with Ted trading for Marshall as long as Driver isn’t part of the package. James Jones or Jordy Nelson, as much as I like them as Packers, would be better options with a draft pick and Donald Lee. The Market Value on off-the-field-issuses players are basically whatever the best deal a team can get. <— alot of times that means not much, which results in the team benching that player for the year a la Keyshawn Johnson.
so Hawk should start because...?
Hawk’s play last year was drastically impacted by injuries he played through, so throw that out the window. Players just don’t drop off a cliff 3 years before they hit their prime. Everyone playing hurt throughout the course of the season would be much better off in the eyes of the fans by just admitting they’re doing just that, but that flies in the face of the tough-guy, expose-your-weakness mentality of the NFL.
Sure, Hawk is slightly worse against the pass than Chillar and not as stout in the run as Bishop. But he’s still better against the run than Chillar, and much better agasint the pass than Bishop and is the most complete LB of the 3. The effectiveness of this defense is predicated on disciplined play, something Winston Moss thinks he offers in spades. It’s no coincidence Chillar has been able to rack up the stats he has so far with Hawk clearing the way for him with the pre-designed kamikaze action of Capers scheme.
We still don’t know about Bishop. He’s blown up back-ups all camp, but has been shown to be an utter liability in the passing game when it counts. His performance in pre-season and training camp so far hasn’t changed my perception of him. This next game against Tennessee will help though. Jeff Fisher always uses this as his Late Summer Super Bowl, so Bishop and the back-ups will get plenty of chances to go against better competition. That will be a more accurate assessment of his progress.
And for all we know Hawk could be just as flashy as Bishop going against other teams back-ups, but we’d still downgrade him because as the 5th over-all pick, he’s supposed to do that. As a high draft pick, he’s just never been given the opportunity. With other playmakers like Jenkins, Woodson, Collins, Barnett, Kampman, etc on the defense, the solid and consistent play Hawk has displayed in a starting role the past will more than do.
Godspeed...
I think we do know about Hawk. Never been given an oppurtunity? He’s been a starter for 3 years.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Sep 1, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
But last year he had to move to MLB, while fighting through injuries. I agree we should disregard his less then stellar play last season, though he did lead us in tackles. He is a solid guy, and a smart football player. I think he deserves a starting spot in the 3-4 defense, and if Chillar and Bishop prove to be better then him in the regular season, then they can replace them.
Regardless, I think there will be a rotation at ILB throughout the season because of the depth we have there. They will all get their chances to prove themselves.
by packallday555 on Sep 1, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Miswording...
I meant his never been given the opportunity to beat up on future Arena Ballers a la Bishop.
Godspeed...
trade
I don’t see the donkeys making the trade for DD and Lee. They already have an up and coming TE in Scheffler. Lee would not really interest them tthat much, IMO…That and Drivers advancing age, make that particular trade extremely unlikely.
Any trade on the Packers part would have to include a new contract, that includes a very harsh behavioral clause on Marshall! Thompson would never trade for him w/o that being in place prior to the trade. ANd the trade agreement would have to have a bitter pill for Denver to swallow should he have any more issues!
Just don’t see any way the trade happens… None!
My two cents
Bishop has been excellent in passing situations. He has two interceptions while dropping back into coverage, and the second one was a beautiful diving interception against the grain in front of the receiver. Additionally, he’s been the best blitzing linebacker. I’d love to see him on the field on passing downs if MM won’t get him on the field in running situations.
Anthony Smith should move ahead of Bigby. Smith has made two heads up picks. Against Cleveland, Smith dropped into zone into the end zone. Rather than simply stare at the quarterback like most safeties do, he glanced to his left and saw Brandon Edwards running along the end zone back line. Smith immediately began moving to his right and picked off the pass intended for Edwards. In the Arizona game, Packer LBs constantly were matched one-on-one with the slot receiver and were beaten often. On one play, the Cardinal receiver had Chillar beat for a long gain until Smith swooped in front of the receiver for the pick. Smith has 3-4 experience from Pittsburgh and should move into the starting role.
MM will never trade Lee. Have two starting TEs creates so many problems for the defense. MM will not give up Lee.
Kuhn and Johnson will make the squad as fullbacks. Kuhn is too good on special teams. Johnson has a big upside, and MM won’t have drafted Johnson if he was happy with Kuhn and Hall.

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