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What It Means To Lose Chad Clifton

The Bengals recorded six sacks last Sunday, five by DE Antwan Odom, as he beat LT Chad Clifton and LG Daryn ColledgeFrom Tom Pelissero:

♦ Three of Odom’s sacks came against Colledge, who got beat inside each time off of the initial punch. Rodgers was chiefly responsible for another for not throwing the ball away, and Grant gets the bulk of the blame for the other because he whiffed after Lee got an initial chip. 

With Clifton out at least two weeks with an ankle injury. Colledge will take over at tackle. Fresh off his three sack allowed performance, although he played with a sprained foot. The only good news is that the Rams have managed one sack in their first two games, so maybe the anemic pass protection can hold off their anemic pass rush. How many sacks and hits on QB Aaron Rodgers should we expect on Sunday?

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Depends

On if our receivers can get open and if our run game is working. My guess is 4 hits, 1 sack.

by Dave Z on Sep 24, 2009 12:02 PM CDT reply actions  

Turnaround Game

I think the offensive line got chewed a new one and they will come out minus Clifton and put it to the Rams. Colledge has actually looked solid at LT since Jason Taylor mopped him up as a rookie (when he’s had time to prepare). It’s not the Rams d-line I’m worried about, it’s next week against the Vikings proven d-line.

I know I said last week that the Bengals and the Rams were the two easiest matchups for the Packers, and even though the Bengals mopped us up, I still stick with that cause I think it was just the Packers downer game of the season. The Rams however, are truly the Packers best matchup. It’s the only team all season (except maybe the Lions) where the Packers have a clear talent gap over them. I haven’t peaked over the edge yet like a lot of Packer fans so I fully expect the Packers to blowout the Rams, but if they lose or even hardly win, I’m gonna be really scared about the rest of the season.

I would guess Rodgers gets a couple knockdowns and 1 sack.

by FavreSucks on Sep 24, 2009 1:02 PM CDT reply actions  

Solid???

How can you say that Colledge has looked solid? I guess he will have had time to prepare by Sunday — let’s hope he’s adequate (I won’t hold my breath for “solid”).

Mkedmp has a good point about Rodgers’ refusing to throw the ball away. Brad Johnson was another QB who wouldn’t get rid of the ball, some people say because an incompletion negatively affected his QB rating, while a sack did not. He wound up getting ground into paste. I’m not saying that Rodgers is trying to protect his QB rating, but some time it would be good to get rid of the ball and avoid a sack (the safety against Chicago would have been a good time to do that).

by ktenreb on Sep 24, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

My personal opinion

Is that Rodgers is trying his best to make a play and be “cool” under pressure. I doubt he even thinks about his QB rating. He probably is looking at someone (or multiple someones) and just saying “another half step and I’ve got you”.

by Danwood on Sep 24, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rodgers implied during his Wednesday interview...

that he was looking for checkdowns that weren’t there, because they were used up in 7-man protections. He was holding the ball, going through his progression, and not finding people he would normally see. He hasn’t played much in continuous max protect like they did against the Bengals. Here’s hoping he won’t need to revert to that any more.

by RobertArthur on Sep 24, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Holding the ball

That really surprised me; how long he seemed to be holding the ball. You’re right, he doesn’t continuously play in 7-man protection. Odom was collapsing the pocket so quickly that it was even enough time for the extra blockers to break downfield as a checkdown option. I wonder if the extra blockers were too slow in reacting; taking too long going from blocker to receiver.

by Brandon on Sep 25, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

ktenreb

Yeah Solid. When Colledge has had to fill in at LT he has been solid except for on Sunday and his rookie year against Jason Taylor. He definitely isn’t a long-term option but I think he can be solid until Clifton gets back.

by FavreSucks on Sep 24, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colledge played 4 years of LT...

at Boise State. So he’s played the technique before, and was very successful at that level. He’s a little too light, and his arms are short (33 in). He can be solid, but it will be because of his speed and superior technique. I hope Kampman and Jenkins have been giving him a workout in practice.

by RobertArthur on Sep 24, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chris Long

I expect he’ll be going up against Chris Long who, unfortunately, reminds me a little of Antwan Odom. Hopefully his foot is feeling better and that should help him.

by Brandon on Sep 25, 2009 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agree on Colledge at LT

I thought he was our best lineman last year when he lined up at LT. Of course, I have to admit he was the best of a group not doing very well.

Can anyone teach me a little regarding the initial punch? That is one thing all our guys seem pretty poor at. Is it because of the stupid ZBS that they are more worried about their area than the guy lined up in front of them? I don’t get it. That was one of Tausch’s strengths back when he was still able to bring it and it was one of Clifton’s too. It just seems these guys aren’t being taught well on it and it is letting rushers slide right by our guys with ease.

by BSGorilla on Sep 24, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

The punch is used to stop a rushing defender...

by tackles. It also prevents the defender from getting into them, where the tackle can be more easily controlled. Tackles use their arms to keep the defender away and take up more space. Their goal is to cut the defender off from the QB while they are dropping back and forming a pocket. The punch is one technique that can be used to disrupt the defender’s momentum, and some tackles are better at it than others. Obviously, strength is an asset in this technique.

Interior linemen, by contrast, make contact and try to control the defender. They aren’t trying to form a pocket, they are trying to hold an area. A punch is less effective on huge defensive tackles, as they rely more on leverage and applied strength.

I don’t remember Clifton’s punch being anything noteworthy, but Tauscher’s was pretty impressive. I haven’t watched Barbre enough to see his; his biggest problem is footwork, anyway. Same with Colledge. Last week, Colledge was winning the initial battle, but losing on second effort because the defender was getting into him. He was also sliding too wide. He knows that, because he commented about it yesterday. LG and LT involve very different mindsets, in pass protection.

None of this has anything to do with the zone blocking scheme, by the way. That’s run blocking, which is a whole different set of techniques.

by RobertArthur on Sep 24, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Great comment

I learned a lot. I really need improve my technical football knowledge. That’s an interesting point about the difference between Tauscher and Clifton, and something else for me to watch on Sunday as we see Colledge and Barbre at tackle.

by Brandon on Sep 24, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think

He is referring to Colledge at LG, at least I hope. Colledge has definitely been good at LG, and MM has said multiple times that he has graded out well at LG (granted he’s only played 1 and 1/2 games at LG.)

by packallday555 on Sep 24, 2009 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

with these WRs

… how does he not just chuck it up and pray every once in awhile? I mean, it worked for most of last season. Even if the protection breaks down, Driver is as consistent as they come running routes and Jennings always seems to be streaking open down the field. Just give it a heave in the direction of whichever one seems most open.

by Jayrome007 on Sep 25, 2009 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh

Basically sounds like Favre and I have loved that Rodgers doesn’t play that way. Rodgers just needs some time. If you watch him, and his body postures, and the way he is dropping back and looking for pressure around him he just doesn’t look comfortable.

by packallday555 on Sep 25, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also depends...

Although he has not turned over the ball yet this year, Rodger’s is not willing to throw the ball away and its giving us way too many 2nd or 3rd and longs. I haven’t seen him throw the ball away yet this year.

Also there was no improvement on the D-Line from week 1 to 2 even against a lesser opponant which gives me no reason to think it will be any better in week 3

2 Sack’s (D-Line caused) 2 Sack’s (A-Rod caused)

by mkedmp on Sep 24, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions  

O-Line Nightmare

Clifton out two weeks
O-Line nightmare continues
Wake me when over
www.PackerHaiku.com

Clark Osborn - PackerHaiku.com | FavreHaiku.com | BadgerHaiku.com

by PackerHaiku on Sep 24, 2009 1:59 PM CDT reply actions  

MERP MERP MERP MERP MERP
There’s your alarm, wake up foo’
Season’s just started.

by Thaddeus? on Sep 24, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously.

there’s still 14 games left to play. We could go 15-1 or 1-15 for all we know at this point.

Fun fact: From 2002-04, we started out the year 1-1, usually in the same fashion. Beating a team expected to contend (Carolina coming off their Super bowl appearance, Minnesota in 03, and the Haslett/Brooks Saints when they were good in 02) and lost to pretenders/up and comers afterwards. Every single one of those years resulted in a 10-6 record and first place in the NFC North, and followed up by a retarded performance by The Gunslinger in the playoffs.

It’s very likely this team gets it together and that the Bengals loss won’t look as bad when it all comes down to it. They might even beat the Steelers this week, with how flat Pittsburgh has looked so far and all.

In other words people, let’s all caaaaaalllm doooooowwwn.

by vitaminx on Sep 24, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remedy

What’s the best cure for ailing pass-protection? A heavy dose of Grant and the running game. It should be very effective against a defense that gives up an average of 146 yds rushing.

"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet

by propheteer on Sep 24, 2009 9:15 PM CDT reply actions  

the big five with minimum protection

get rid of the ball quickly and rodgers wont get roughed up too much
everythings uphill from there

On that fly to right-center
I kinda expected JD to plow into Rios with an ATV.

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Aug 17, 2009 7:35 PM PDT reply recommended Unrec 3

by blackoutsox on Sep 24, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Definitely

I’d imagine the game plan would implement both of those strategies to keep an awful Rams defense off-guard.

"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet

by propheteer on Sep 24, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Running game, three-step drops, no huddle...

getting the TEs involved in the passing game. Re-watch the second and third pre-season games. These are all things that the offense has done, and done effectively. They need to get back to controlling the tempo and keeping the defense from getting into a groove. If they get into that slow-motion panic that was the Bengals game… it will be a long afternoon.

by RobertArthur on Sep 24, 2009 9:33 PM CDT reply actions  

And drops

Rodgers mentioned it in his audio interview on Wednesday. Their tempo was disrupted early when Finley and Jennings dropped those two passes on the first drive. McCarthy put some of the blame on his play calling, and I would like to see him mix in run and pass plays better. Looking back at the play-by-play, he only called three running plays in the entire 2nd half.

by Brandon on Sep 25, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I strongly suspect that part of the tempo disruption...

was trimming of the play sheet caused by Clifton’s injury. They looked like a completely different team, offensively. I’d love to see the notes on McCarthy’s play sheet after the game. It seemed like they threw out most of their game plan, and went with simple stuff they teach on the first days of minicamp. Nightmare.

by RobertArthur on Sep 25, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's odd

With Clifton out, they seemed to abandon the run and go with max protection. My first thought would be to call some more run plays and to slow down the pass rush. But they were playing from behind at that point, although Clifton was injured early in the 3rd quarter so there still was plenty of time. Or start sending more receivers out and use a three step drop on quick slants or short routes. Max protection, without anyone obviously helping Colledge with his bad foot, would not have been my first choice.

by Brandon on Sep 25, 2009 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think McCarthy and the offensive staff...

were shocked at how the line fell apart when they shifted Colledge to LT. They have done it before, and it wasn’t a complete disaster. This time, though, it seemed like the Bengals were playing with 12. After Colledge gave up that first pressure and looked completely lost, the whole line started a death spiral. It seemed like they all got really tight, and it only got worse every time they turned around and saw their QB lying on the grass. I hope they — and the staff — learned something from the experience.

We don’t know the run/pass options that were called, and checked out of because of defensive alignment. The Packers have a lot of those plays, so the lack of run attempts might be on Rodgers as well. He was looking pretty shocked himself, so it is plausible that he was trying to pass his way out of the hole he was in.

Credit the Bengals defense for seeing blood in the water and helping the Packers meltdown. Once they saw the pass pro was breaking down, they deliberately gave the Packers mostly pass looks in the early downs. They crowded the box and dared the Packers to pass. The Packers took the bait, Rodgers ended up on the ground, and the drives stalled. By 3rd down, the Packers were not in run-favorable situations. That equals one run attempt after Clifton went out.

You’d like to think that the coaching staff would be able to realize what was happening and adapt during the half. It just doesn’t work that way, though. Maybe if the injury happened before the half, they could have discussed changes in the game plan at halftime. However, I doubt it. If pass protection goes down the tubes during the game, that team is going to lose almost every time. You need a working pass game to give running plays a chance.

by RobertArthur on Sep 26, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Find Mark Taucher!

Find Mark and bring him back! Our O-line is sucking! It was one of the bright spots of the season last year, even though the Great Ryan Grant showed why he was 5th on the Giants depth chart! Any O-line that allows 5 sacks needs to be sacked!! Defense, you don’t get off easy. Charles Woodson should not be the leading tackler on the team. Leading in interceptions, yes, not in tackles!

by biggun33 on Sep 25, 2009 3:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Tauscher is in Sun Prairie...

and even if he wasn’t, his agent knows where to find him, anyway. He can’t pass a physical right now, otherwise one of the teams that have RT injuries would be working him out. He’ll be in uniform somewhere by the end of October.

Woodson is leading in tackles because he is playing CB in Capers’ 3-4 system, where the CBs keep an eye on the backfield. This isn’t Sanders’ scheme, where the CBs lock up on receivers and get taken upfield on run plays. In Capers’ defense, the CBs can recognize runs earlier, and flow to the ball when they are still near the line of scrimmage. Woodson is making tackles on the ball carrier because WRs haven’t been able to block him. He’s also making tackles because the LBs are forcing the ball carrier outside. These are all good things, not bad.

by RobertArthur on Sep 25, 2009 8:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Forcing outside

It’s something I have to get used to while watching the defense. I used to look for the defense to force the runner back inside, to where there were (hopefully) other teammates waiting to make the tackle. But Capers’ scheme forces everything outside, and as you said, that’s part of the scheme, and not a bad thing.

by Brandon on Sep 25, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I mis-spoke (mis-typed)...

I should have said that the LBs are forcing the runner outside because they haven’t been stopping them on inside runs very well. The LBs have been a step slow to recognize, and they aren’t flowing to the ball well as a unit. Woodson’s been in the right spot to make the tackles when the ball carrier shifts out, and that’s a good thing… but I’d like to see the LBs stuff their share of inside runs also.

by RobertArthur on Sep 26, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

luckly

Packers play the Rams (or was that the Lambs??) on sunday. By that, Rodgers should be safer, maybe one or two sacks. My sister could play LT vs the Rams and Packers should still win.

In two weeks vs the Viqueens and Jared Allen, that does not look good right now!

LT is probably the signle most important posission on the offense. We’ve been lucky to have a very solid franchise player like Clifton for so many years, hope he gets healty soon.

by Jarlsberg on Sep 25, 2009 3:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Right

Yeah thank God the Pack play the Rams. They can’t look past them but they have so little talent that it should allow the Packers offensive line to gel safely. Hopeful Colledge gets his steps and technique down so he’ll be ready for Jared Allen next week.

However, QB is definitely the single most important postion on the offense not LT. LT is the most important on the offensive line but only two teams have won the Super Bowl with an average QB and both of them had the best defenses in the league.

by FavreSucks on Sep 25, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, their D may not be talented

But their offense sure has some good guys who just haven’t hooked up yet. Let’s just hope they don’t figure it out in their next 60 minutes of game time!

by Danwood on Sep 25, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully he does

He just needs to take the proper angle against Allen. A lot of the time Allen will overrun plays if you give him the outside so hopefully Colledge will do that. I think we definitely need double team K Williams on every play as well. He is an animal. And if Colledge can’t handle Allen then we need to stick a TE over there too help out because against a team like the Vikes it is crucial that we can get our passing offense going.

by packallday555 on Sep 25, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colledge is well matched against Allen.

It’s the power rushers that he will struggle with.

by RobertArthur on Sep 26, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

However, QB is definitely the single most important postion on the offense not LT. LT is the most important on the offensive line but only two teams have won the Super Bowl with an average QB and both of them had the best defenses in the league.

I would agree with you if you have a decent LT, but with the way Colledge played vs the Bengals, you could have whoever at QB, he’d still be in trouble. If you have a very dominant LT, he will automaticly make your QB look better. That’s why I think LT is the most important posission on the offense.

We’ve had QBs employ that strategy before And quite often it’s resulted in an INT.

Danwood … that’s true….. but more often it resulted in a very, very good play for the offense.

by Jarlsberg on Sep 26, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions  

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