Offseason Agenda
by edhuang on Jan 12, 2010 9:17 PM CST
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PrintHey all, I've been a regular reader of this website for almost this entire season, but I've only now decided to post something. I've been a Packer fan for the past 10 years of my life (I'm 20 right now) and I've been through every single playoff heartbreak the Packers have been a part of this past decade (Mike Vick getting rid of Lambeau's perfect record in the postseason, 4th & 26, the Randy Moss mooning game) and this last loss is no different. Tough loss to swallow. But I was talking to my friend the other day who missed the game (he's abroad in South Africa) and, despite the loss, I told him how I don't think I've ever been as excited for this team as right now in my entire time as a Packer fan. Many of you will think I'm going overboard, but here's what I said to him:
They [The Packers] couldn't get pressure on Warner all game long. That screwed them over - Capers will have to work on fixing this in the offseason. But there were many positives to take from the game: Jermichael Finley (as a WR & TE), Woodson (Larry got away with two clear offensive PI's that led to TDs), Aaron Rodgers (despite the TOs), and McCarthy (he called a hell of a game today with the onside kick). Also, I am hoping AJ Hawk (got burned several times) doesn't start next year and Jarrett Bush will be cut. But it is clear to me this team has a very good shot at winning the Super Bowl next year IF they do a couple things:
1. Resign their own free agents (Collins, Pickett, Johnny Jolly, Tramon Williams, maybe Daryn Colledge) & sign and trade Kampmann for a high draft pick.
2. Fix the O-line (either through the draft or FA)
3. Fix the nickel & dime packages (Al Harris' return will help tremendously with this)...
4. Sign a big-name free agent a la Woodson. I don't know how it will work in the 3-4, but Julius Peppers sounds good. And even better would be Richard Seymour (!). I think Seymour would fix all their problems with pressuring the QB in addition to allowing them to let one of Jolly or Pickett go. It has been clear for years now that this is what can and most likely will put the Packers over the top.
5. Draft well again (specifically for OL & DB, maybe DL too)
If the Packers do this, they will be Super Bowl contenders for the next 4-6 years, with a decent possibility of winning multiple ones. I am unsure of the financial situation (in fact all of this is probably a HUGE stretch), but Ted Thompson will be my hero if he is able to get most or all of this done. This team learned a lot this year character-wise, battling through adversity week-after-week, and it is clear they have been building this team the correct way (with young talent & fiscal shrewdness). I am hoping to God TT does everything right this offseason because I see it as THE most important offseason for the Packers in the next 5 years. Provided the CBA gets done in time to prevent a lockout, we are looking at a team that could rival the '00s Patriots in terms of domination (if somebody like Seymour is signed). Holler.
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That is a lot of action for one off season
I’d love to see all of those things happen but man that is a lot to ask for. I’d love to see us land someone big…just one (we don’t need to go crazy) but its not likely to happen. Woodson was a big name but he wasn’t a first day kind of FA.
Yeah, like you said this is a lot of stuff but I think a lot of it can be acheived. I think Harris will likely retire though. I believe he is 35 right now, and even if he comes back he likely won’t be back until midseason. I think signing a veteran Cb would be a smart move as well as signing a veteran OT. Obviously we’ll likely draft many players at those positions but it usually takes guys a couple years to really have an impact.
I think the biggest thing is signing a relatively big name FA. Is Seymour a FA? If so, he really would be a great addition. Having Jenkins, Pickett/Raji, and Seymour on the d-line would be scary. If not Seymour, then maybe an OLB to compliment Clay depending on how the Kampman situation goes.
It seems likely that Chillar will take over for Hawk next year. Otherwise I’m not sure how TT could justify Chillar’s relatively spendy contract.
Like you said people may think we’re crazy but if some big moves are made this offseason we can definitely become a legit SB contender.
by packallday555 on Jan 12, 2010 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
Harris is planning to come back according to that source. In that case, should we start Tramon ahead of him and still give him 60% of the snaps like Tramon was getting when Harris was still in the lineup this year? This would save his legs…
Anyways, Richard Seymour is indeed a free agent, regardless of how the CBA works out (so he’s unrestricted). Yes he’s old, but IMO he’s the best 3-4 DL out there and I sort of see it like a Reggie White signing – an old man who wants to play on a winning team making the players around him better and playing lights out himself. Let’s face it, being able to generate a somewhat consistent pass rush with only 3 men will take a LOT of pressure off the rest of the defense. I actually think it would go a long ways to solving Dom Capers’ problem with veteran quarterbacks. This is just guesswork right now, but I think It would allow playmakers like Clay Matthews, Woodson, and Barnett roam more and let the Packers play man more often (as the zone was torn apart by Warner, Favre, & I believe Roethlisberger as well). Now that I think about it, I think you can take out 3 of those points I made above and just focus on Seymour and point #1. That would still produce tremendous results. And Point #5 is almost given hehe.
So yes, I’m on this Richard Seymour tip like crazy. The more and more I think about it, the more it makes tremendous sense. Who else agrees?
old man? He’s 30…I take offense to that as a 32 year old guy!! haha but its not really THAT old in football terms. He’s got at least 3 great years left before seeing a big decline I would think. He’s restricted though which means if he ends up out there and we make an offer, the Raiders can match it.
It will be interesting to see what our cap looks like after this off season. We have a LOT of key players hitting the market potentially…especially on defense which I am guesssing is why TT didn’t make a splash last year. This year was a year to learn how the current guys would adjust to the new system. Now they have to sit down and decide who adjusted well and where we need to cut ties and move on.
We may end up with more holes than we know of now if they decide not to spend the money on a few of our current starters
actually the bears spend quite a bit of money
just not on the right people
2010 White Sox - Benching our way to the playoffs.
Totally agree. Seymour and point #1 would likely make us a legitimate SB contender. Ryan Stern says below that Seymour would require a lot of $ but I’m not so sure. He didn’t have a great year with Oakland, and like you pointed out he is older.
by packallday555 on Jan 13, 2010 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
I can’t see how seymour hits the market. The raiders gave up a first rounder, it clearly wasn’t a baseball kinda move where they were “renting” him to make a playoff push. He’ll be franchised…there is NO way we’ll have a shot at him.
Probably true. I doubt he wants to stay in Oakland though, and maybe a trade would be a possibilty.
I don’t know, I just think we need to make a big move. Getting an all-pro caliber guy could be the turning point for our team.
by packallday555 on Jan 14, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
I agree...
but just cause we think he doesn’t want to stay doesn’t mean he’ll have that opportunity.
Richard Seymour
Are you guys crazy?? Seymour is gonna be looking for the big bucks, something the Packers don’t usually spend. The Packers problems are not the front 3, resigning Jolly and maybe even Pickett will shore up the front 3 and even though Seymour is a Pro Bowl caliber player, he would make minimal difference and the Packers would have to make room for him on the roster with Harrell coming back. I would rather the Packers hold onto their money and sign their draft picks.
If we sign either Pickett or Jolly I would say it would be Pickett. Jolly really doesn’t ever generate any penetration, and most of the time when teams were able to run on us it was done so right over Jolly. Part of it could have been Jones as well, but he was actually ok shedding blocks and making some tackles.
Seymour is a Pro Bowl caliber player, he would make minimal difference and the Packers would have to make room for him on the roster with Harrell coming back. I would rather the Packers hold onto their money and sign their draft picks.
Minimal difference? He is the BEST 3-4 DE in the league. Having him, Jenkins, and Raji on the line would be an unreal line. Jenkins doesn’t get much recognition but he is probably a top 5 3-4 DE in this league. Think about what having 2 top 5 DE’s could do for us. I would agree with the whole draft pick things but that’s what we’ve been doing for the past 4-5 years, and it’s pretty evident that we’re another big player away from being a great team.
by packallday555 on Jan 13, 2010 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
I agree he’d make a HUGE difference but we’d have to give up HUGE value in a trade AND sign him to a monster contract. I can’t see that happening. Can you???
I agree
If we are to make any blockbuster signing this offseason, it would have to be DE Richard Seymour. That would be intriguing and an intimidating DL, no doubt. That would make our LB’s jobs even easier. There are 2 problems with this signing that can prevent it from happening though:
1. Cullen Jenkins is a RDE. Seymour is also a RDE in the 3-4. Therefore, one of them will have to make an adjustment to LDE, and that may not be as easy as we’d like to think.
2. Richard Seymour will have a high salary demand. Can we afford him if we are going to try and resign S Nick Collins? I’d rather resign Nick Collins before Richard Seymour.
If we can keep both Seymour and Collins, we’d be in a very good position next season. I think Brad Jones is getting too much hype simply because he played good for a 7th Round Pick. He in fact, was a liability a lot of times on the left side. Against AZ, if you look closely, he was often times out of position when playing against the run. That LB’s job is to cover that side of the field. He instead attacked right next to Jolly instead of controlling his gap. AZ then shifted its lineman his way and the RB had a huge lane to run through, thus being the reason we were not able to run the ball. If Jones is out of position, that immediately puts the ILB, AJ Hawk, in a terrible position to make any kind of play. It’s kind of like dominoes, if one falls, the rest can as well.
I am excited to see Justin Harrell back and hopefully healthy. I still have faith in him and his ability. He looked sharp in the 3-4, so lets not give up on him. In fact, he’s not even making a lot of money, so he could in fact be a hidden gem at this point. He can’t be a starter next year though, we need to gradually get him involved on the field.
What else does the defense need? Well, two obvious positions that need attention are a raw talented CB that can learn from Charles Woodson and a solid bull rushing OLB. These OLB’s are quicker undersized college DE’s. Think of guys like Brian O’ Schofield. I would rather draft a CB in the 1st Round as opposed to an OT if they are of equal value. This way we can ensure that he will have time to learn from Woodson, provide quality depth in the secondary, and secure our future.
In all honesty, we are not sitting too good with the long list of potential free agents on our team. We need to resign Nick Collins and Atari Bigby. We need to slap the Franchise Tag on Aaron Kampmann and trade him for a high draft pick.
Go Pack!
Yeah, the Seymour signing is unlikely. I don’t think one of them moving to LDE would be a huge deal. Obviously, it would take some getting used too, but their both veteran guys with great size and talent.
He in fact, was a liability a lot of times on the left side. Against AZ, if you look closely, he was often times out of position when playing against the run. That LB’s job is to cover that side of the field. He instead attacked right next to Jolly instead of controlling his gap. AZ then shifted its lineman his way and the RB had a huge lane to run through, thus being the reason we were not able to run the ball. If Jones is out of position, that immediately puts the ILB, AJ Hawk, in a terrible position to make any kind of play. It’s kind of like dominoes, if one falls, the rest can as well.
This isn’t correct. I remember Matthews getting sucked in earlier in the year and seeing plays go off tackle, and thinking it was his fault. But someone (can’t member who) on this site told me that the OLB’s in Capers systems are indeed supposed to take the inside and force the Rb outside, in order for the ILBs’ to come over and make a play. If this is true, then Jones was actually doing the right thing, and Hawk was just to slow diagnosing the play and getting to the edge to make the tackle (which wouldn’t surprise me).
I do think we need to grab a guy who is a better pass rusher to replace Jones occasionally but I don’t see this happening. The staff seems to think highly of Thompson and what kind of player he might be able to turn into, and we still have Kampman to deal. And in all fairness, Kampman actually did an ok transitioning to OLB. We have to keep in mind that he hadn’t played LB since college (7-8 years ago), so this was all pretty new too him. He got beat occasionally when dropping into coverage, but he provided a strong pass rush and actually appeared to be becoming more comfortable in the scheme but then got hurt just 1 game later.
by packallday555 on Jan 15, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
I agree on Jones
Capers had him rushing inside every time. Mathews was doing the same thing on the right side
2010 White Sox - Benching our way to the playoffs.
by blackoutsox on Jan 15, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the only difference is Matthews has Barnett to rely on and Jones has Hawk..
by packallday555 on Jan 15, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
enought with Seymour
Guys we are NOT going to get him. They are going to franchise him so the only way we get him is if we trade for him and since they JUST sent a first to the Pats (a high pick too) the price tag will be very high AND then we have to resign him too! We need to just lay off this pipedream!
Here's mine
I like that list Ed, i’d change it just a touch…
- re-sign collins/pickett/jolly/bigby…they all played well this year and replacing them would be difficult. It would have been nice to have Raji replace Pickett and spend that money elsewhere but Raji didn’t make much impact and the 4 man rotation worked so well…
- get at least one new tackle via the draft (top 2 picks should be OL), move Lang to replace Clifton. Hope to Jeebuz that the new tackle can replace Tauscher or his knees hold up another season. re-sign college unless he asks for more than he’s worth or you can draft someone to replace him.
- fix the linebackers. to me, they lost us the pitt/cards games by neither pressuring the qb or covering the middle on pass plays. Clay and Barnett are starters. Chillar is making starter money, however in a 3-4 he could be the fifth guy and still play lots. We desperately need some big physical bad @$$ mofo LB’s like the Steelers. If we’re rushing Clay EVERY DOWN we’re wasting his talents and might as well play a 4-3. He’s not big enough to play and end type position, he should be all over the field not lined up against the LT every down. Peppers would be perfect in that position but he’s gonna be too much $$$.
- trade Hawk. he’s a good, solid, steady player and tackler but doesn’t make any plays and doesn’t fit our scheme now. Better for both parties to move him somewhere else and get a good return, either an olineman or say Cribbs (fingers crossed).
- Draft a punter. Seriously. Like in the 4rd round if need be if the best one available is “can’t miss”. These guys can be sooo important to a game of field position.
- i actually think our cornerback position isn’t too bad, depending on Harris. He should be #3 next year, and if Pat Lee or Underwood can replace Bush we’re good. Another position to draft for later on.
I am still not sold on Bigby. I think it depends on what he’s going to cost us, he’s a liability at times. His best attribute is being a hard hitter. I really like Pickett (as a player and a guy) but with his age progressing I think we need him at a good price or we may have to move on and fill his spot with a young guy. I disagree that Raji didn’t make an impact. I like resigning Jolly and Collins unless we are replacing them with even better and more experienced players. If Woodson is moved to Safety, its bye bye bigby though.
I dont’ know about Lang at tackle…seems better fit for Guard. I think Tackle MUST be our priority in the draft but I’d like to see a vet brought in to anchor Rodgers backside if our current guys aren’t back.
Hawk…doesn’t fit this scheme? He had his best statistical season in EVERY single stat on the statsheet this year: Tackles, INTs, Sacks, Passes defended and even tied his best at forced fumbles. I think people WANT to think of Hawk as a bust but geez he had a pretty ncie season. Goign after Cribbs would be a HUGE mistake. Peppers has NEVER played LB. Why pay a guy that kind of money to play a position he has a 50% chance of bombing at? Look at Kampman, amazing DE, mediocre LB. I don’t like throwing THAT kind of money at a question mark.
I agree on punter.
We need to keep bringing in some talent at CB. Every year until we have some new solid guys there. I am not sold on anyone we have right now (outside of woodson). I see a lot of potential but until someone starts to excel, we MUST keep drafting this position!
I agree with your CB point
Tramon has shown a ton or potential and he is good but I just dont see him getting any better than he is. And thats the part that scares me. And he was targetted alot this year and didnt step up like he did last year.
Lee has shown potential too but nothing more than that. Blackmon shows the speed but lacks the experience. Hopefully these two can prove me wrong next year when they are healthy but otherwise I say we need to draft a least 2 CBs or get one in FA.
It would have been nice to have Raji replace Pickett and spend that money elsewhere but Raji didn’t make much impact and the 4 man rotation worked so well…
Huh? Raji did a really good job for us this year. He wasn’t 100% until about halfway through the year, and once he got back to 100% he showed flashes of brilliance. He blew up some run plays this year tackling guys for 3-4 yard losses. I think we can afford to drop Pickett.
Lang won’t ever become a really good LT in the NFL. His arms are too short, and he is a far betteer run blocker then pass blocker. He could make due at RT but would most likely be best at LG. I agree we need to get some good OTs though for sure.
I think trading Hawk would be a smart move. He is actually a pretty good 4-3 OLB, and we could probably get a player and a 3rd or 4th round pick for him.
by packallday555 on Jan 13, 2010 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
Raji is gonna be a stud,
our DT’s were so good this year, and healthy, that Raji didnt see a ton of playing time. But I was mucho impressed by the few games that he started.
Packers done...now 3 months of sports hell.
Yeah, he is just so strong and athletic. He pretty much never gets pushed backwards, even when being double teamed, and he does a great job clogging things up. I really think we can afford to lose Pickett.
by packallday555 on Jan 14, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
what I'd do
Resign: Tauscher, Pickett, Williams & Collins.
Let Bigby, Clifton, Colledge & Jolly go.
Lang replaces Colledge.
If you can get a LT in the first round, draft him. If you can’t, look at Free Agency.
Sign Richard Seymour. He’s a great 3-4 DE and can bring pressure from that spot. Jenkins, Seymour & Matthews would be 3 legit pass rushers.
Sign a SS who is better at playing in a Zone defense. Sign a Veteran cornerback (nickel/dime back – depending on Al Harris).
Needs for the draft – Tackle, OLB, Secondary, Special Teams
Now is the time to sign veterans to help out the young core.
Yeah, if we could do even a few of these things it would be huge. I would take Jolly over Pickett though. I think Pickett is going on 32, and Jolly is only 26.
I think we definitely need to replace Bigby..He just is a liabilty in coverage, and really wasn’t very good in Capers zone coverage schemes this year.
by packallday555 on Jan 14, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
However, if we sign Seymour, there is a less chance of seeing Jolly on the field with Harrell returning. At least with Picket, we have depth at the NT position. If he does, it’s Raji at that position full time. If he’s out for at least one game, we are in trouble.
Go Pack!
I don’t think we’ll sign Seymour though, and in fact Strohman pointed out earlier that they only we could get him is by trading for him. Knowing that, I would say there is probably a 0% chance get him.
I don’t think we can rely on Harrell. I would be willing to bet that he will be hurt again next year, and will be cut. I would like to think this won’t happen, but seeing as how he has had some sort of injury in pretty much his whole tenure with us, I just don’t see how he is all of the sudden going to shake that off.
Signing Pickett would probably be smart, as well as Jolly, as long as they don’t want a big contract.
by packallday555 on Jan 15, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
I'd do...
Couple flaws in your strategy…
Lang is likely to replace Tauscher NOT Clifton. Lang doesn’t have the feet and he does have short arms that will keep him from being a LT. Lang can easily play RT, he comes right out of the Tauscher mold! Pickett and the Packers are in negotiations to re-sign him. He’s a very good run stuffing NT, and will keep Raji fresh to be a better pass rush. Plus we need all the depth on the DL we have.
Bigby Colledge and Jolly are all restricted FA, which means keeping them will be relatively easy! A LT is a definite need, there aren’t many really good ones around outside the Top 10 picks in the draft.
Seymour is a FA, and not restricted, but will cost TONS and you will be paying for his least productive years! The Pats let him go for a reason, they noticed that his overall play is slipping and they got a #1 for him, but didn’t have to pay an inflated price for his least productive years. Trading Kampman for Seymour would make ALOT of sense though.
We also need another explosive pass rusher opposite Matthews. Someone like Woodley… Jones is a good player, but he won’t ever be the type of pass rusher we need to help Matthews.
As always drafting a CB is necessary! We just found out why… And while we were essentially playing w/ our 6th and 7th CB, it showed… Overall the Packers have 3 very good CB, but Harris is a ????. Lee, Blackmon or Underwood need to step up and become something similar to Tramon Williams! Lee and Underwood are the most likely.
Finding a good or even decent LT in FA will not happen!!! They just don’t make it to FA…
Eventually that would be a wise move
But, getting 2 new starting OT’s in one offseason is a long shot. We most likely need Lang at OT at least for one more season. It’s easier to find a Guard as opposed to Tackle.
Go Pack!
True, but this draft is actually relatively deep at the OT position. It doesn’t have as much top end talent as 2009’s class but it’s still pretty good. Hopefully we’ll get a guy who can be our LT for years to come with our 1st round pick (Buluga), and then maybe draft a guy who could develop into a quality RT for us as well in maybe the 3rd or 4th round.
by packallday555 on Jan 15, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
trade
Should have said IF you could trade them… They are both unrestricted FA, so in fact you can’t trade either of them… So that trade won’t ever happen! Langs best position is probably LG, but I do think he would make a very good RT also. RT are more important than OG, and Colledge is good, not great by any means, but you can win w/ him as your weakest OL.. Packers have proven that by making the playoffs 2x in his 4 years.
It’s hard to think about what we should do with our o-line. We could always keep Wells at C, and put Spitz back at OG, and have Sitton at RG. Sitton was by far our best run blocker this year, and Spitz is a good run blocker as well. Then we could have Clifton/rookie at LT and Lang at RT. The only problem with that is Wells is awfully average, and undersized. He isn’t a great run blocker, and is ok in pass protection.
by packallday555 on Jan 14, 2010 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
Wells provides quality depth
nothing more than that. I’m not a fan of Wells starting unless one of our current starters gets injured.
Go Pack!
so trade a failed converted DE who was possibly BETTER than Peppers for another converted DE who will cost even more PLUS give up a pick? I’ll pass.
Yeah, a lot of people on here seem to want Peppers and I don’t get why. We just saw Kampman slightly struggle with the transition to a 3-4 OLB, why risk that with Peppers as well? I really think we’re going to keep Kampman, or at least try too.
by packallday555 on Jan 18, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
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