Packers Game Ball: Packers Fall In OT To Dolphins, 23-20
by Brandon on Oct 17, 2010 3:58 PM CDT
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintFor the second straight week, the Green Bay Packers lose in OT. This is their 3rd loss of the season by exactly 3 points. It's the 3rd loss of the season that could be blamed directly on their special teams play.
For the 3rd season in a row, I don't know what special teams coach Shawn Slocum has to do to get fired. His units are always awful, and have held them back the last three seasons. The last time they were any good (2007), the Packers ran away with the NFC North. This was an especially tough game for them because the one major mistake (a 5 yard penalty on LB Robert Francois that turned a punt into an eventual Dolphins TD) was a mental/coaching mistake. And they got outplayed by the Dolphins, who came into this game with the 2nd worst special teams unit in the NFL according to Football Outsiders. The team could easily be 6-0 if they just hadn't had awful special teams play.
The injury to LB Clay Matthews was a major problem, as the defense had zero pass rush without him. This was something I was worried about back in March and April, when they let DE Aaron Kampman leave and failed to draft a pass rusher. Neither one of those decisions was bad in itself, but obviously its left them with a punchless rush when missing Matthews.
Despite all the disappointment, there were obviously a lot of players working their tail off to make this a close game. The defensive line has zero depth due to all the injuries, but DE Cullen Jenkins and NT B.J. Raji (plus a good game from rookie starter DE C.J. Wilson) played hard throughout the game though they had to have been exhausted. The offense clearly missed the two absent starters (TE Jermichael Finley and RT Mark Tauscher) as they only attempted 3 passes to their tight ends and rookie RT Bryan Bulaga gave up multiple sacks, but QB Aaron Rodgers was great again and the offense averaged over 6 yards per play.
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Thompson made this bed
now he has to sleep in it, which is mediocrity.
by ThroughBeingCool on Oct 17, 2010 4:00 PM CDT reply actions
How can this be blamed on TT
9 starters down… seriously… The fact that he’s set up a team to be competitive w/ that many injuries speaks volumes to what he’s done w/ this team. The blame here lies on the HC… how do youre players not know about lining up over the center on a punt?
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Thompson told his team they didn't need to stretch!
That’s how.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 17, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not be picky...
Grant, Finley, Tausch, Pickett, Barnett, Burnett, Mathews, Harris. That’s eight. Chillar, our primary nickle LB, the ninth? he plays more plays than Hawk, so almost 9 starters.
Plus Bigby, who would be a starter, is still out. And Harris, who would at least be in the nickel, still out.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 17, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
you can add to that some backups on the same positions that are injured
Finley’s backup Lee, Pickett’s backups Harrell and Neal (not to mention Jolly, today we were down to our 5th option at DE), Burnett’s backup Bigby, Matthews’ backup Poppinga got hurt in the middle of the game. The fact we kept a close game against a solid team in Miami is a testament of how deep we are.
The Dude abides
Yeah
that’s about 14 players, combined starters and top backups that gets lots of time. We’re screwed.
9 starters out
And we only lose by 3? Can you imagine what’ll happen when the Packers are at full force?
Except they won't be, ever.
That’s the sad part. Well, one of them, anyway.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 17, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Doesn't matter
The defense isn’t whats killing us… the offense can’t move the ball to save their lives
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
3 of those starters are on offense
Taucher, Grant and Finley. Two of whom (Grant and Finley) are major playmakers in this offense.
But, if the defense improves, the offense won’t need to score as many points. It’s not a long term or ideal solution, but it’ll help stop the bleeding.
Well . . .
The injuries are ridiculous. However, we don’t have a feature back on the roster when we should have. We don’t have a backup right tackle, even though our starter is clearly on his last legs. We still don’t have a punter. These are GM roster failings.
But these problems would be covered up if the team weren’t decimated by injuries right now.
Oh, and Brandon: I disagree with your comment that Rodgers played “great.” He didn’t. He played well enough to lose the game. I’m not ragging on Rodgers generally because I think he will be a very good NFL quarterback, but on Sunday he was not at his best (it didn’t help that Bill Schroeder, err, Jordy Nelson dropped at least 2 passes).
More disturbingly
but on Sunday he was not at his best
I think you can say that for almost every game this year up to this point. Rodgers simply has not had a “wow” game this year.
Good topic
Why are we losing? Injuries? They’ve hit the defense harder than the offense, but the defense has still played reasonably well. The offense hurt us the last two weeks.
Definitely on the offense. I think it’s a combination of McCarthy and Rodgers. Seems like all both want to do every play is go deep, which just isn’t going to work with our offensive line. It’s the exact same thing as early last season really. Just our offensive line isn’t nearly as bad as it was then.
Why we seem to be using the deep pass to open up the short passes and running game just doesn’t make sense too me. I just hope it doesn’t take McCarthy until week 9 this season to figure out that, that doesn’t work.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
i agree.
There are no long sustained drives right now… It is either a deep bomb or 3 and out. It’s putting too much pressure on our banged up D. Not to mention…MM seems to have an aversion to running the ball (unless he has a lead in the fourth quarter.)
Even then
outside of the Detroit game we still use a lot 5 wide and passing sets leading in the 4th
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 19, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Another disappointing loss, but I'm still optimistic
We were down 9 starters today iirc, and still played a close game. The offense won’t need to score more than 20 points (though they should, I’m not saying they’re performing to expectations) if the defense becomes healthy and becomes a shut down defense. That combined with how bad the NFC North is this year, I still think the Packers still have a legitimate shot at the postseason.
I called it during the game thread...
…we should have gone for 2 after the TD made it 20-19. A 2 point conversion, with our weapons on offense (Driver, Jennings, Quarless, even BJack and Jordy) would made it at least a 50-50 proposition. Which is exactly your odds in OT, 50-50! Any thoughts?
My intial reaction
is going for 2 is a horrible idea… but the more I think about it, the the less horrible it seems. But i still don’t think going for it is the right move. Kick the PAT and go into overtime
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
If we were on the road
I would have been all for going for two. At home I feel you play for overtime in that situation.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Not to mention
That going for one technically DID work. We lost the toss but made the defensive stop in OT. Thus, going for 1 was the right call because that’s the outcome you’re hoping for when you decide to tie the game and go to OT.
The fail is when the Offense refused to do anything useful.
That's using hindsight
you cheater lol
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree on the 2 point convertion.
it is a 50-50 deal either way. show some guts and go for the win. then fire the special teams couch!
cpocraig
I believe 2PC are successful about 35% of the time
that’s closer 2-to-1 against going for it. Miss it twice for every time you make it.
I am a ‘Phin fan, so I’m obviously biased considering how the result turned out; but from a sheer statistical standpoint, it would have been a bad move going for it.
Besides, before ARod ran up the gut on us, we stopped you on the 1-yard line three consecutive downs. I don’t think you can assume that your weapons (nor can any team assume that) make it any better than the average.
Gonna take a fortnight at least to get this herd down to St. Louis on Mississippi. This glen's gonna be tough to traverse, and that river's got to be 50, 60 meters wide. And God knows how many fathoms. To hell with parliamentary procedure. We've got to wrangle up some cattles!
by Dave.Phuller on Oct 17, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
also, if you lose the coin toss you lose the game about 45% of the time.
which isn’t as bad as 66.666% of the time
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
Major suckage
The lack of a dynamic running game neuters this offense as defenses pressure a truely offensive line.
The lack of CALLING PLAYS for a run game is worse
Brandon Jackson is still getting it done on the ground. I have no idea what they’re thinking with Kuhn. Jackson clearly feels much more comfortable than in his Week 2 debut but they need to give him the damn ball.
by vitaminx on Oct 17, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
McCarty hit his pitch count
for rushes and we stopped running the ball and lost… go figure
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously. What doesn’t he like about Jackson ripping off 4 yard gains consistently? Hell, he even had a 9 yard and a 14 yard gain too. But of course, we decided to abruptly stop feeding him the ball. Subsequently, making things much difficult on Rodgers and the offensive line. McCarthy is just brilliant.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Jackson is looking good...
but the more touches he gets, the less touches A-Rodge gets… that’s the reality. A Rodge is our big play money guy.
And giving him
empty backfields in the shotgun is going to get him killed.
+1
How many times our we going to leave our most important player naked in all these 5 wide sets? Play after play Rodgers was taking hit after hit, and a lot of the time guys were coming free.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Huge problems with the offense
The offense is not converting third downs and we’re leaving our defense way too long on the field as a result. The lack of first downs is absolutely killing this team, especially in close games like this. This feels like 2008 all over again. The Packers don’t look like a Super Bowl contender, they don’t even look like a playoff team right now. And the schedule’s only going to get harder from here, too.
I don’t want to be all chicken little about this, but what a horrible game. That’s 3 out of the last 4 games lost in the closing seconds.
Another last-second loss.
Enough.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 17, 2010 4:25 PM CDT reply actions
21 rushing attempts
17 if you pull Aaron’s 4 rushes out and 62 yards. Again almost 4 yds/carry and NO commitment to the run. This is why we lose games… we shut the run game down way too soon and kill ourselves on 3rd and short plays because the other team doesn’t respect the run because we don’t. At least run some play action or keep someone in the back field to make them think we might run it
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 4:34 PM CDT reply actions
take a look at the rushing attempts of other winning teams...
it’s usually around 25, at most 30 (if they’ve sealed the deal and are running out the clock).
We are not losing because we are under-utilizing BJack and Kuhn.
in 2007, when we started out 8-1, we are second to last in rushing, behind Kansas City.
A lot of pass plays though are on 2nd or 3rd and short
we need balance and to not pass on everyone of these. The other problem is a lot of our passes come w/ a completely empty backfield so theres no guessing for the pass rush. Keeping a back or two back there makes the pass rush have to at least consider a run… they way we do it, they just have to go straight to the QB
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
TT should have
traded for Lynch when he had the chance. May be Starks is that good and we’ll be happy on the ground comming of the bye week? may be, shoulda, coulda woulda. Lynch looked good for Seattles win over the Bears today. He helped keep the Bears D honest.
cpocraig
lynch doesn't have the heart for the game anymore.
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
He was one of the rising stars in the game.
now is buried on the depth chart and didn’t even fight that hard to gain ground. He just doesn’t care.
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
YOu know that Lynch was traded to the Seahawks and is starting for them, right? You also know that he was starting for the past three weeks in Buffalo too. I am starting to wonder if you even watch football…
Spiller has pretty much started for BUF most of the season.
It was Jackson and Spiller in week one. and Jones for the hawks
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
I heard a rumor regarding RBs
Tagging Marion Barber from the Cowboys to the Packers for a 4th round pick. According to the rumor, the cowboys want salary relief and want to unload his 3 year, 45 mil contract.
It made me really excited, Barber always seems to blow through our D-Line. And the combination of him and Grant next year would be reminiscent of what the Jets have this year.
But it’s probably just a rumor.
I prefer the DeAngelo Williams rumor.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Oct 17, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
i think the Barber one is more likely
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
Lynch has more value than...
A-Rod wanted him. Lynch is still a feature back and will prove his worth over the next 4-5 games. in the nfc west that could win thier division. plus……….. A-Rod wanted him. you do need to be stroked once and a while. with the pounding that A-Rod has had to take. We still need a H-Back bad. We also need 7 more starting defefence players! Low is the luck of the faithfull.
cpocraig
correlation doesn't = causation
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
just about to post the same thing
41 pass plays called (33 pass attempts, 3 scrambles, 5 sacks) and only 17 run plays (including Aaron’s sneak). On the other side, Miami also had 41 pass plays, but also 37 rush plays, which is 20 more than us. And that’s after MM said during the week that he’s committed to running the ball.
I still don’t know what to make of this team. Yes, we were seriously depleted and still fought hard, but on the other hand, we looked bad even before the injuries and the problems we have are the same problems we had in years past.
The Dude abides
Can we give the game ball to "no major injuries"?
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 17, 2010 4:43 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Technically
Brady Poppinga was injured which is why Francois was in and he’s the one that lined up over the center… so That’s sort of a major injury
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
for both teams
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
by PotM on Oct 17, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2010/10/17/1757729/your-free-thread-vikings-cowboys
Wisconsin, throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time...
I was fined $15,000 by David Stern for complaining about the officiating...
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 17, 2010 4:58 PM CDT reply actions
Packers Game Ball - REFS!
F Ed Hoculi! F the NFL Refs! I am so sick of this crap week in week out. Every week Aaron Rodgers gets freakin’ helmet to helmet and gets no freakin’ call! Every week there is some BS call on a third down which sustains an opponents drive. Every week there is some weird mystery call. This week….Francois lining up over center on a punt?!?!? Are you kidding me? The refs on the field didnt even make the call! Freakin’ replay booth made it! Is that even legal??? GB is doomed… too many players injured and refs calling every thing they can think of against them and sometimes making shiiit up.
No point in blaming the refs
We shouldn’t be in situations where a missed call costs us a game… The helmet hits suck… btu maybe if we had an O-line that could protect we wouldn’t be in those situations either
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
You are right...however...
I watch ALOT of NFL football – not just Packer games. Honestly, calls almost ALWAYS go against the Packers. And I disagree with you regarding this game. That “call” on Francois effectively won the effing game for the Dolphins. The piece of crap refs dont make that call and the Pack gets the ball back with the game tied.
Its because we have a set precendnce
of committing a lot of penalties under MM. The refs are more likely to throw the flag at little infractions because that’s the standard we’ve made for ourselves.
As far as that penalty in particular goes, by the rule it’s a penalty. Does it suck? It sure does… does it cost the game… most likely… Can we blame the refs? Nope… That’s the coaches job to make sure the players understand whats legal and illegal. Something like lining up improperly is a joke penalty and the result of an undisciplined/unprepared team. Not to mention there are 10 other people on the field that didn’t notice it either. So that penalty is no one’s fault but our own
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
dude...it was NOT a penalty
check out the replays…Francois was roughly 3 yards off of the center. It was NOT a penalty. Furthermore….the effing replay booth called it. I think that that is a FIRST! I have never heard of the replay booth calling down to the on the field refs and telling them to call a penalty.
He lined up over the center which is a NO-NO
It’s kind of like the pocket for a QB… between the tackles w/ no depth to it. He lined up directly over the center which I’m guessing (I haven’t looked the actual rule up) is what it says is illegal and it doesn’t specify anything about being so many yards off. And unfortunately, the call came during a commercial so there’s no telling if it came from the replay booth or not… and if it did then I expect some league heads to roll over it because A. The booth can’t do anything ouside of 2 minutes and B. Penalties are unchallangeable
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Two Ifs
If the replay booth made the call that sets a huge and terrible precedent. There is some sort of holding on just about every play in the NFL.
If it doesn’t matter if you’re near the line of scrimmage or not, then what if the punt returner is 40 yards back but lined up over the center?
But it shouldn’t matter. If the refs beat you with one call or two you can’t really blame them. Calls are blown. You need to beat the other team badly enough where the refs can’t change the outcome with a few blown calls.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 17, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
i was listening to post-game talk radio...
620 WTMJ… Hosts confirmed that the call came in from the replay booth roughly 30 seconds after the play was done. The rule states that the player cannot be less than a yard off of nose tackle. There is photographic evidence that Francois was 3 yards off. Seems pretty clear to me. …not that it matters….game is done, as are the Packers.
If you can find evidence of this, there needs to be something done.
I didn’t see if Miami used a challenge there, and that would be the only way for them to review the play as it was around the 7 minute mark. Horrible precedent to set.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 17, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
For all the reasons stated above. If the replay booth called in a replay or a penalty on that then I think the Packers would have a legitimate gripe about petitioning the league since the replay booth is a non factor until the final 2 minutes
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I was wondering why the flag didn’t come about until after the commercial break. Initially, there was no flag on the play.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Penalties aren't necessarily unchallengable
Things involving boundaries (like crossing the line of scrimmage before throwing a pass, receivers running out of bounds, etc.) can be reviewed and have penalties called after the fact. This particular penalty doesn’t seem to fit that criteria though.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
He was NOT 3 yards off the center. That is just a lie. He was a step back but ON the center. It was a mistake from a guy who has no experience. That is what happens when you have 12 LBs that are injured.
It's on the Special Teams Coach
The guy was just signed off the practice squad. The Special Teams Copach needs to tell him where to line up. It wouldn’t hurt either if some of the veterans on the field would have said something to him.
Slocum said
he was right where he was supposed to be… so yes this is definitely on Slocum… Why even put yourself in a position to be that close to getting the penalty? There’s no need take one step to the left or right and we’re not even having this talk right now… Just another example of why Slocum needs to go
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly. Why line him up over the center at all? All that’s doing is risk a penalty which is just stupid. Why Slocum hasn’t been fired already is beyond me.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
After further review...
you are right…Francois was not 3 yards off center. He was a little more than a yard awat. Still….not a penalty.
I hate whining
Francois was not where he was supposed to be. Winning teams don’t argue that they lost a game because the referee missed a call by an inch or two. On that play, there was no reason for Francois to be close enough to the center to have the referees even wonder if he was too close. If he was supposed to be heeads-up on the center ( I wonder about that), he should have been at least three yards off the ball. My guess is that he was trying to intimidate the center by pushing the line as close as he thought he could. Bad decision.
Hey...I agree
I am just saying that I a SICK TO DEATH of calls consistantly going against GB or not getting calls at all (helmet to helmet on Rodgers). Whether it cost them the win – who knows.
The bigger problem is
He was where he was supposed to be according to Slocum and the play design. I agree it’s stupid to whine about a yard or 1/2 a yard difference… There’s no reason for him to be directly over the center to start with and falls on the ST for even designing that crap
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Here is the rule:
“During field goals and punts, opposing defensive players cannot line up directly over the center. They must have their entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads (player safety).”
It doesn’t talk about how far off the line or anything…he just can’t line up over the center. PERIOD. Its a penalty and a stupid one for us to get! WE gave them new life and lost because of it. The referees called the penalty by the book…
This play wasn’t about us not getting calls, this was about a kid who didn’t know the rule. Its on him and the ST coordinator, not on the refs.
To take this rule to an extreme then...
A player that is back fielding a punt could in theory not line up over the center. I agree to some extent that they had a case to call the penalty right away, but they chose not to. The penalty came as the Packer offense was on the field after a review. That is not the way a penalty should be issued.
In the off season they should rewrite the rule, but coaches are supposed to teach their players the rule as written.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 18, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
And to add another extreme
If we didn’t have 5 minute TV timeouts after every freaking change of possession, the penalty probably wouldn’t have been called either.
I agree on when the penalty being called BS. Though was anyone at the game, how soon after the play was done did the penalty get called? Maybe they showed us footage from a few minutes earlier on the broadcast. They had time to piece it together.
That said, you were being ridiculous and your illustration…the returner isn’t “lined up” directly over the center. So yeah…there really isn’t anything to rewrite. The rule is clear and we didn’t follow the rule so we were penalized.
Plus
it’s a lot harder to tell if someone is lined up directly over the center 40+ yards away… it’s pretty easy to see that when they’re 1 or 1 1/2 yard away
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
That is my point. Write the rule to make sure there is a clear definition as to what exactly is over the center.
Right now, is someone that is 3 yards over the center considered for a penalty? 2 yards? It is ambiguous as to the distance that determines what over center is. There leaves a lot to be desired from the wording. There needs to be some component of distance away from the LOS so this call can be made standard rather than a referee’s judgment.
There is also a part of that rule that says if someone is able to take a direct snap, that a player is able to take a direct snap.
I understand the rule and don’t really want to argue the fact that Francios was directly over the center (I agree he was to an extent). But to say that the rule is clear is wrong, because directly over the center can mean different things.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 18, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
and there are BS calls that kept this game as close as it was.
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
i disagree...
BS calls all went against pack. Not sure about holding…cuz that could probably be called every play.
really? they deducted about a yard on 4th and inches when we got it inside your 25 and
we were driving. we challenged it, the ball was half a yard beyond the sticks, but the ref was drunk and said it wasn’t far enough. the punt call almost made up for that. also, i can’t remember any time that Rodgers was deliberately hit helmet to helmet with intention to hurt. you have to expect some of that, or helmet to helmet will be called on every run, half of sacks and qb hits.
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
I didn't watch the game unfortunately..
was Rodgers a “runner” by that time? If he flushed the pocket, it doesn’t matter about the helmet-to-helmet; he is not afforded QB protection.
Gonna take a fortnight at least to get this herd down to St. Louis on Mississippi. This glen's gonna be tough to traverse, and that river's got to be 50, 60 meters wide. And God knows how many fathoms. To hell with parliamentary procedure. We've got to wrangle up some cattles!
by Dave.Phuller on Oct 17, 2010 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you got screwed more on the initial spot than you did on the challenge.
The refs had to look at it from conclusive evidence standpoint to overturn. Challenging spots is probably one of the more difficult things to do.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 17, 2010 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
there was concluesive evidence.
even the unbiased announcers (they really were this game) said that
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
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Yes, that was a bad spot for sure.
Rodgers got hit helmet to helmet pretty early on by Starks. It was a pretty obvious penalty, He led with his helmet, and hit Rodgers in the facemask with his helmet. That’s the only one I can think of.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
and there was
that play where it appeared the lineman drove into Rodgers and then picked him up and drove him straight into the ground… penalty.
for driving?
that is almost necessary because Rodgers shook a sack or two. can’t let him get the ball out of his hands. Rodgers is a tough QB to sack
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
is that the one where half the face mask was in the shoulder pads and half was in his face, or
was it when we couldn’t see the hit because of the camera following the ball?
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
First option you said.
Even if it gets called though, I doubt we go and do anything after the fact. Our offense has been so damn bad this season. We didn’t deserve to win the game.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
its true but..
its true the refs look for penalties against the pack..but thats only because were so undisciplined that its a pretty good chance we are comitting the penalty so the benefit of the doubt goes out the window
Oh and one more thing...
I have zero faith in Aaron Rodgers pulling out a come from behind victory. And to be fair it’s not all Rodgers. It’s the whole team. They choke…consistantly. In today’s game, I had absolutely no confidence they were going to win….none! Ever since Favre left no one…NOT ONE EFFING PLAYER has stepped up to make the game winning play with the game on the line.
WTF?
Last I checked, Rodgers led a drive to tie the game.
by jglowack on Oct 17, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So what...?
Sure…Rodgers tied the game. He has done that before. When has Rodgers ever led the team to a COME FROM BEHIND WIN???
Last year's season opener?
The bomb to Greg Jennings to win it with 19 seconds or whatever left?
There were also several instances when Rodgers had a potential game-clinching drive spoiled by bad defense on the ensuing possession. See: 2008 season and last year @ Pittsburgh.
There are several problems with the offense and the team as a whole right now, but Rodgers ain’t one of them.
Last year,
Both games against Chicago.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 17, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Point taken.
Those games seem like such a LONG time ago. Fact of the matter is that those RARE occurances of wins are just that RARE. I am not saying it is all Rodgers. The team itself…heck maybe it’s the coaching staff…chokes when the game is on the line more times than not.
It's the coaching
There’s no creativity when it comes to play calling and no attempt to even make it look like we pretend to run. Why are we using empty backfields everytime we have a 3rd and 2 or less. It’s like saying, “Hey rush me… you know my line sucks and you’ll probably get to me and get a sack before I have time to let anything develop” At least put someone back there to maybe pretend we’re going to run or at least act as another blocker
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions
also, you are facing a very good D.
don’t let last #s fool you, most of the big gains and TDs came from our FS, who is now on the Bengals
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
This wasn't just about this game
this is about our entire season… I’m not trying to discredit the phins in anyway shape or form. But the play calling and formations have been atrocious for us all year long… not just this game
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Well . . . .
Rodgers is clearly in the upper third of quarterbacks in the league, but he isn’t playing as well this year as he did last year.
I agree.
I don’t know what the difference is…I really want to figure out why things aren’t clicking but maybe Rodgers just isn’t seeing things or maybe guys just aren’t getting open!
playcalling?
its easy to defend a quarterback when you know 80% of the time its a pass play
Guys are open. I just think he looks to much for the deep ball or big play. I’ve seen guys on short routes wide open underneath more times than I can count on one hand but instead Rodgers tries to force something a little further down field. I think McCarthy’s at fault for this too cause it seems like he always wants the big play too.
I wish we’d just go back to what we used to do so well. Quick route teams to death, and then when they start to bite, give them a double move and take a shot deep.
I don’t like the way we use Jennings either. Seems like every other play he gets send deep on a 9 route or some sort of double move. I realize Jennings is a great deep threat but when teams know he’s doing it all of the time it kind of takes away for his deep play ability. The few times he ran a curl, slant, and out route he was wide open and had catches for nice gains. He’s so quick, and is such a good route runner. Plus, him running all those short routes opens things up deep for not only himself but also the rest of our guys.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
r u for real?
Look at what chad henne did with pass protection..if rodgers wasnt running for his life the whole damn game maybe hed have a better chance..to make the pro bowl last year while taking the most sacks should disprove your point right there..imagine if we still had favre with this pass protection? youd be saying the same thing..rodgers is the last of our freakin problems right now
dude...i am not blaming rodgers.
Once again…i am not blaming Rodgers. He is a solid QB. That said, he is not on par with “Big Game” QBs – Brady, Manning, Brees. The fact is that he is not that good in the clutch. For that matter…the entire team/coaching staff is not good in the clutch. Look at the wins / losses in close games.
and im saying
give him the pass protection that those 3 u just mentioned and get back to me..if hes not a so called Big Game qb then your onto someting..but until then i think its unfair that you say hes not good in the clutch..youd have to put the blame on his offensive playcalling..heck in his only playoff game he absolutely tore it up..and the game ending interception was a penalty that wasnt called..i just think its unfair to call him unclutch
brady's o line is not great either...
yet he pulled out an OT win.
OR … maybe this Packer team is just cursed.
Arizona’s Karlos Dansby not called for Roughing the Passer on hit that resulted in Rodgers fumble.
Bear WR not called for Offensive PI – result Bear Win.
Redskin Dlineman not called for Roughing the Passer on Rodgers – Result Rodgers INT resulting in Redskin Win
Today … mystery call on Francois for lining up over center on punt….resulting in Miami lead and eventual victory.
haha
brady got sacked only 16 times last year and only 5 times so far this year and has 220 for his career…rodgers was sacked 34 times in 08 and 50 times last year and has been sacked over 100 times in his career soo im not sure about that brady comment altho he is head and shoulders above rodgers..
but ill gladly take your cursed argument because thats all i can think of to explain it haha
brady has been sacked 8 times...
And the Pats run blocking sucks. Funny thing is that Packers could probably be decent running the ball…it’s just McCarthy refuses to call running plays most of the time.
those stats didnt include today
but i still proved my point i mean rodgers got sacked what 5 times today alone?…but yea ur right no offensive line plus one dimesional play calling doesnt work out for him or the packers as a whole
yea... you are right though...
packers o line officially sucks.
what fumble?
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
oh, arizona
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
No Whining
Losing teams blame the referees. Winning teams don’t get into a position where a bad call forces a loss.
The referees are honest, but flawed. But that’s not why we’ve lost two in a row.
that's a flawed philosophy IMO, a close game can be decided on penalties, and
it doesn’t mean that both teams are terrible, just that they are playing equally well.
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
You named two of the greatest QBs to play the game and a another great QB. YOu expect a kid in his 3rd year to be competing with guys that have 10 years of experience and are among the best to walk on the field?
RIDICULOUS^
6th year
It’s his 6th year. 3rd year as a starter. The three years he spent on the sidelines count, because those are the years he used to develop as a QB. It’s a terrific strategy to allow a first-round QB to sit for a couple of years and let him learn, and it’s worked very well with Rodgers.
But this is his 6th year.
Yes but still, he doesn’t have those extra 3 years of playing experience which is what ultimately matters most. There’s a reason you see most guys really shine after their 7th or 8th year (Brady, Manning, Brees, and Favre all fit into this)
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Just sayin...
A young Brett Favre won these types of games. Of course the post-Super Bowl Favre tore Packer fans hearts out with INTs in these games in the playoffs. But he would usually come through in the clutch in the regular season. I am not saying I would rather have that perv back. I am just saying that this team – whoever’s fault it is – never seems to win the close game.
A young Brett Favre wasn't battling MM
If we had a 90’s “I’m ok with just being a coach” Holmgren running this boat I’m sure things would be looking more up than down.
He also lost a lot of these games before we had a chance to win them. You are right, Favre had some great clutch moments. He also had some awful ones though.
YOu can’t hold a qB responsible when he leads his team down to take the lead or tie and then has to watch his D let the other team march right back down. Young Favre had a STUPENDOUS D that was able to be stiffling at times. Our D just isn’t playing at their level.
For the record, Favre’s record in games decided by 4 or less points in his career is 33-30. Not amazing…though it blows away Aaron Rodgers.
Rodgers win / loss record in close games per JSonline...
He is 0-5 in overtime games and 1-11 in games that have been decided by four points or fewer in his 39 starts, including 0-2 and 1-3, respectively, this season. His only playoff appearance ended with his fumble being returned for a touchdown in overtime.
How many of those 1-11 games
Did he lead a drive to tie the game or take the lead and then the defense blew it?
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
It’s not necessarily Rodgers, it’s everyone around him, including McCarthy. What is he supposed to do when his offensive line can’t give him time and all his coach does is call deep plays? There’s no balance to our offense. Teams know that we’re going to pass every time, and play us accordingly. I think we’d be amazed at how much better our offense looked if we were to ever get a good running back, and a coach who will commit to a running game.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
This
of course a QB is going to have a bad win-loss record when he spends 1/2 the game on his ass and the other half being forced to throw because we never set up the pass w/ the run. Not to mention, a few of those losses came in OT games where the Def never let us get the ball. But you’re right… it’s all Aaron’s fault… if only he could play coverage and rush the QB maybe he’d have a better win/loss record in OT games
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
oh well
The only good thing about losing this game is that now I can go back to expecting the Packers to lose each week. When they do actually wind-up winning a game than I’m happy. Expecting them to win against teams they should be beating and then seeing them lose is just not any fun.
you got a point
I am going to try to not get emotionally involved with this team. I agree, I do not expect them to win again this season. Even Detroit I think will beat them.
Detroit's a good team
I dont think we can really use them for the worst team in the league analogies anymore
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I know...
thats the scary thing….Packers can’t count on a W in Detroit. Looking at their schedule…shoot, they’ll be lucky to win 2 more games this season.
You're right
We’re the new Detroit. Play just good enuf to lose. This game has become a ‘signature’ game for us. Find a way to lose. The D can’t get a stop when they need it and the O can’t score when it needs it. They used to call that CHOKING.
by bigbill992001 on Oct 17, 2010 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Sigh, the "we're the new Detroit" line
If you ever talked to someone who is a Lions fan they would laugh in your face for suggesting that what the Packers are doing right now is Lion-esque.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
I lived in Detroit area for 35+ yrs. until 2007
There used to be a sports show, I forget nthe guy’s name but he moved on to the NYC area, he called it the “Monday Morning Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda Show”. The Lions COULDA won that game, the Lions SHOULDA won that game, the Lions WOULDA won that game…………………..IF ONLY. Then he would go on to point out all the things the Lions did TO LOSE. Sound familiar?
by bigbill992001 on Oct 17, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The Packers' second string defense
Is out there holding opponents to 20 points a game. The Packers are at .500 6 games into the season. Do either of those sound ANYTHING like the Lions?
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
It sounds like the Bears
Of the last few years where they were 7-9 or 9-7 because they had the makings of a great defense (usually with at least 1 major injury) and an offense that couldn’t stay on the field because of Ron Turner’s great scheming.
+1
I’ve come to this realization too. Hopefully it’ll make me a little less stressed out when the Packers look like absolute shit.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
This was a good game and it was a pleasure conversing with you for the last week or so.
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
was a SS for the jags
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
stats for this year
Game GS total tak solo Ast Sck Safety PD INT yds avg long TD FF
3 3 15 13 2 0.0 — 1 1 47 47.0 47 0 0
"You want to revolutionize? Be specific and believe your eyes! Start a war in another backyard and we will destroy your house of cards! Give me a minute ad I'll change your mind, give me a bullet and I'll change your life!" - Corey Taylor in
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
So what's up with Bigby?
did we underestimate his injury as well?
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Oct 17, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Think he is still a week or two out.
Still need depth at that spot though. Harris will probably return before Bigby.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 17, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions
The special teams on this team have been bad
for the last three years. So has the defense in critical situations. Today was no different.
I believe
the vikings are going to SHRED us on special teams next week.
by Shamalamadingdong on Oct 17, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Lets stop blaming the defense
First off 2nd stringers held them to 20 points in regulation… 2nd stringers. Secondly… this vaunted offense needs to be putting up more then 20 and 13 points in games especially w/ such a depleted defense. Thirdly, of course the defense is going to give up plays at the end of the game, the offense loves the 3 and out routine so the Def never gets a breather…. what was the ToP for the 3rd Quarter, like 12 to 3?
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps....
a lot of this teams problems on defense and special teams would be masked if this offense could score some points. We know right now that the Packers won’t be able to run the ball next week, and that’s regardless of whether or not the Vikings stack the box.
Hopefully the Packers will get some folks back by next Sunday and will be able to put up a good showing.
+1
I am actually hoping that we have a great game and the vikings “shit the bed,” as it were.
by Shamalamadingdong on Oct 17, 2010 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Rodgers will need to be on his game
and McCarthy is going to have to figure out some way to keep the Vikings defense honest. Right now, that’s hardly a sure bet.
It sure would be nice to beat them and stop any momentum they got from today.
Can't get other teams
to respect the run game when we don’t respect our own run game
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
if
we can turn this around next week against the vikings suddenly were right back in it..altho serious changes need to be made
thats a big if...
I REALLY want to be the optimist…..however, it is really hard right now. Watching the Pack choke 3 times now in close games is not instilling a lot of confidence in me. I am having nightmare thinking about Moss catching deep bombs from that pervert traitor Brett Favre cuz our DLine once again cant get any pressure on him and our secondary sits back in zone.
choke yes
im as pessimisstic as you right now but weve lost 3 games by 9 points its not like were gettin killed were just beating ourselves
remember rodgers first year...?
Pack was 6-10….and they lost ALOT of close games. I think first time in NFL history a team with 10 losses had an offense that outscored the points allowed by the defense.
trade
espn reporting S anthony smith traded to pack
peprah
hopefully this is the beginning of the end for him
Doesn't really matter...
I think it is too little too late….may as well keep towing the company line in not bringing any free agents in or making any trades. TT may as well start planning for next year’s draft….maybe we can draft another Harrell.
Really?
who do you want us to go get? seriously… tell me the high profile players on the trade block that we’re not looking at? and Really, the Harrell argument is such a poor one. Yeah, he missed one time… and its not from a lack of talent its from an injury point… when Harrell plays he looks pretty damn good… But Yes Ted missed on that, but how about BJ Raji, or CM3, or Aaron Rodgers, or Finely, or Quarless… Seriously… get over Justin… no GM gets it right every time
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm....
Lito Shepard would have been nice. Screw it – throw a high pick out to Carolina and get Stewart or Williams. Anthony Smith should have never been cut to begin with. GET A FREAKIN’ OLINEMAN!!! College is TERRIBLE. Clifton is mediocre.
But i do get your point….no one could have forseen the rash of injuries that the Packers have sustained.
I have to disagree with you about Harrell though. When healthy (a rare occurance) he looked mediocre. And the injury thing he was known for in college. Never should have been drafted that early. TT did hit the jackpot on Mathews though.
I dont claim to be a football expert at all. From a fan’s perspective though, it is damn frustrating watch a team that is a few pieces away from being a championship team continue to stay the same and not try to improve (other than the draft).
Carolina said those players were not on the trading block
And Carolina is probably more stubborn than TT (filed under the “Let’s give Delhomme a contract extension after he literally throws us out of the playoffs” section).
And we are “Getting freakin’ OLinemen.” Or were you not around for this past year’s draft?
...just wishful thinking...
Best lineman is probably Josh Sitton – and that’s not saying much. I think part of the problem is the zone blocking scheme. To run the ZBS effectively, lineman need to cut the DL’s on the backside. McCarthy refuses to have our guys do it though cuz it is “dirty”.
Harrell was a bust
He never looked good, even on the couple of occasions he actually played. Colledge is not playing as poorly this year as he did last.
Let’s examine your last statement, where you say that the team is “a few pieces away from being a championship team.” I’m not sure I agree with that. Last year had us all wanting more, but keep in mind that we played the weakest schedule that I ever remember playing. This year’s schedule is not as weak, but it is still not partiularly strong (at least so far). I think that the Packers are in the upper half, possibly in the upper third, in the NFL (definitely in the NFC), but we have holes on the O-Line, special teams are a joke, and we had un undrafted rooke as our nickel back. Injuries have been awful this year, but we didn’t have a legitimate backup running back on the roster and we don’t, apparently, have a backup right tackle (on that, I maintain that Bulaga has no business playing RT, he needs to stay at LT exclusively).
Bottom line here is that this team should sneak into the playoffs and might win its first-round game, but that will be because the rest of the league is not very strong.
yea..you are probably right
i was trying to be opptimistic…but as the losses mount the problem area’s are magnified. Special Teams is a disaster….and has been for years…
I am not so sure this team gets into the playoffs based on their upcoming schedule. Even if they somehow beat the Vikings next week…they have a tough haul. And I stand by my theory…if Jarrett Bush remains on this team…they will never win a championship. He is a curse I tell you!
Lito Sheppherd? What has HE done? He is only playing due to injuries on the Vikings, a team known for having a mediocre secondary. THAT is who you wanted us to go after?
better than Jarrett "Mothereffing" Bush!
or how bout trying to get Josh Cribbs or a real punter…? What about Dre Bly????
You would have assembled
One heck of a defensive backfield in 2002.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
and as a nickelback - HELL YEAH!
When Harris comes back we would have a solid secondary.
Have you watched him play this year? Flip open kfan.com and listen to Paul Allen’s show today. He spent about 5 minutes talking about how Lito Sheppherd is the achillies heel of their defensive backfield. QBs are going after him ALL day.
He IS Jarrett Bush now.
Lol
Yes, there’s a reason he’s been cut by two NFL teams now.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
It wasn't a secret
It’s not like no one knew the guy was injury prone. He was injured in high school, he was injured at Tennessee, and by golly he’s injured in the pros.
No GM gets it right all the time. But some of them do better than TT.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Oct 18, 2010 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Who else has TT really missed on?
I’ll concede Harrell… so who else falls in the category of TT complete botches… Hell, I’ll even start the list for you… Brian Brohm… so there’s 2 of your arguements, so give me some more
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
spitz..rouse...hodge..murphy...blackmon
I would argue Daryn College sucks too. And possibly Jordy nelson. Nelson is a second round pick that really has done nothing. AJ Hawk does not appear to be “special” for where he was drafted. However, I dont blame TT for that one.
I agree with your point though…no GM gets it right all of the time. Still…the Harrell pick is going to be hard for him to live down. EVERYONE disagreed with that one.
I honestly think
a lot of our Offensive line stuggles go to MM and the ZBS… I don’t think the linemen we draft are good for that but it’s what MM wants to run and he doesn’t play to the strengths of his players.
Rouse was a 3rd round pick (you start getting pretty shaky w/ those picks) and he was mediocre. Blackmon was a good returner but feel victim to injuries so I can’t fault TT for that one. Abdul Hodge I think was a victim of poor timing. I don’t think he ever got a fair play because we were pretty solid at LB. Was he a stud? No… but I don’t think he was a bust by any means and probably needed more playing time
But I’ll counter now…
Year 1 – Aaron Rodgers, Nick Collins, and Brady Poppinga (decent backup)
Year 2 – AJ Hawk (he filled a need and if he’s drafted 10 spots later hes just fine), Greg Jennings, Will Blackmon, Johnny Jolly (not TTs fault he’s a moron)
Year 3 – Brandon Jackson (Needs the ball more but has developed the past 3 games or so), James Jones (needs to hold onto the ball more but a decent #3 guy), Korey Hall, Desmond Bishop, Mason Crosby (as long as the games not on the line)
Year 4 – Jordy Nelson (decent possession guy and about the best at holding onto a pass the past few games), Jermichael Finely, Josh Sitton, Matt Flynn (looks decent in training camp as a backup), and Brett Swain (about our best STer)
Year 5 – BJ Raji, CM3, TJ Lang (needs to be playing RT so Bulaga can focus on LT), Quinn Johnson (I think hes a decent FB… too bad we never use 1 RB let alone an RB and FB), Jamon Meridith (needed to develop but a good pick for the 5th round), Brad Jones (maybe not a starter but pretty damn good for a 7th rounder)
Year 6 – Bryan Bulaga (needs to play LT and not bounce around), Mike Neal, Morgan Burnett (needs to work on angles but not bad for being thrown in right away as a 3rd), Andrew Quarless, James Starks (This is more a hopeful hit then anything, but they thought enough of him to not bring in anyone else when Ryan Went down), Sam Shields, and Frank Zombo.
I think that summarizes his good picks and theres a lot more then the 7 misses (if you wanna count Brohm). Has he had other people that haven’t made the roster, sure. But for the most part thats a pretty solid team he’s assemblied via the draft and doesn’t even take into consideration people like Ryan Grant, Charles Woodson, or Ryan Pickett.
If you disagree w/ any of these feel free to let me know and we can discuss the merits of my assessment
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 19, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t know of many that do it better…but there are probably some. Every GM has misses, some are really bad but every team has first round busts on their roster. I wish we sent ours to another team though!
As long as Jarrett Bush is on the team....
we will never win the Super Bowl. That is my theory anyway.
Woodson/Marshall
Kind of shocked to read that CW didn’t shadow BM the whole game.
The amount of space BM got was ridiculous
Henne was staring down receivers ALL GAME. There was no reason that Marshall should’ve been given any sort of space when Henne was staring him down for 2 or 3 seconds
pass rush
you can chalk some of that up to the fact that henne was untouched all game
Didn't have a starting linebacker out there
or our biggest run stuffer so we had to devote an LB to that as well
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 17, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
WHATS WITH ALL THE SACKS!!
I, unfortunately, did not watch the game, jsut the play by play computer ouput.(East COast without cable, sorry.) But, I’d be watching what looked to be a good offensive drive by the Pack and then there’d be 5yard, I’n assuming false start, penalty and then a sack or a vice versa. THis seemed to happen a couple times at least.
Can anyone fill me in on who was giving up the sacks and who was false starting. I really thought this team was over the beginning of the 2009 season with giving up a milion sacks, but it looks like we’re in for a repeat.
Thanks and God damn this is getting depressing!
Honestly, they were on Rodgers
The first couple was Rodgers stepping up to run the ball and getting taken down behind the line of scrimmage. After that he got happy feet and was rolling out and running into guys getting off their blocks.
The TV crew picked on Bulaga a lot who was blocking Wake. Most of Wake’s sacks were the aforementioned happy feet variety.
The TV crew picked on Bulaga a lot who was blocking Wake. Most of Wake’s sacks were the aforementioned happy feet variety.
Yep. Rodgers even caused a holding call once because of his “happy feet”. He’s getting gun shy.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
eh not so much
i agree with you on a few of the sacks but rodgers was stepping up because because the pocket was constantly collapsing hence happy feet..its was tough to watch either way
A lot of the sacks were on Rodgers. It’s as if he’s so used to having to scramble away that sometimes he just does so for the fun of it. A couple of times he scrambled right into Wake, and ended up getting sacked and causing a holding call on Buluga. He doesn’t feel comfortable in the pocket, which has to be a concern for us.
by packallday555 on Oct 17, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed
im totally with you on that one what im saying is he sees the pocket collapse and he just gets happy feet instead of checking down or hitting a quick receiver but the problem is hes never really had an o line and his confidence doesnt seem to be there with the play calling..all hes ever known is running for his life
In 2011 draft the Packers need to address the O-line
It’s nice to have good receivers and playmakers, etc. but it’s even nicer to give the QB time to throw.
Also, the Dolphins pass rush looked good in comparison to our pass rush, which did not exist.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 17, 2010 10:56 PM CDT reply actions
Totally Right
We need another real pass rusher. I’m sorry TT, but guys who were drafted 6th round and later or not drafted at all are not going to foot the bill. SOrry, but Frank Zombo aint no Julius Peppers or CMIII. Why not a little splurge in the offseason on a big free agent, GOD FORBID!!!
The draft is good, but you only get one to three good picks and they aren’t guaranteed to be solid players.
This off season if they don’t go out and get a decent pass rusher or running back, it’ll be time for TT to quit. The draft is only good for so much, sometimes you need some veteran character with talent. ONly way to obtain that is thru Free Agency.
Thank You
People need to stop bitching about oh TT doesnt do anything in Free agency or trades and TT needs to go get this guy… Ya know what… if you want to say he’s done a poor job and needs to sign people, give me names of who he needs to go after. Then we can have a debate about whether that’d be a good sign or not. Until then, if you say he doesn’t sign free agents or drafts poorly, I’ll continue to say Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett, CM3, Aaron Rodgers, and BJ Raji and win
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
could have went after Peppers...
That would have made a HUGE difference. Can you imagine getting actual pressure from the DE position along with Mathews at LB…?
The only thing I can imagine with Peppers
Is drama and a bunch of whiffs. No thanks. Carolina didn’t let him go because he was singing songs around a camp fire with the rest of the team in his free time
man...every idea is shit to you....
I guess this Packers team is as good as gets, huh? Are you on Thompsons pay roll? I am sorry, but until he starts actually…uh, I dont know… winning, like Bob Craft and Bill Belicheck I am going to remain skeptical.
Look what Ron Wolf did…Reggie, Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Andre Rison, Desmond Howard….
TT doesn't win games
He gets the players to win the games. BB isn’t a GM, either.
Since you’re new to this site, feel free to do some searches and read up the past TT pissing matches, because I’m not going to get into it again.
But when your second team defense keeps you in games two weeks in a row and your backup RBs are averaging over 4 ypc two weeks in a row and STILL aren’t getting many touches, that isn’t TT’s job, that’s on MM and his staff.
TT doesn’t have limitless resources. He’s no Zygi.
by Danwood on Oct 18, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
man…every idea is shit to you….
You were the one who suggested Dre’ Bly earlier…
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
seriously...?
you would rather have freakin’ Bell or Jarrett Bush over some vets like Bly or Sheppard? These aren’t starters gentlemen….I completely disagree with you… To have these guys as backups would be a total upgrade.
Ultimately yes, I probably would but the reality is both of those guys are washed up. They may actually know where to be (which Bush doesn’t seem to know) but they just don’t have the legs to get it done anymore. And Bush hasn’t even seen the field on defense this season for the most part. It’s been Shields at nickel (and he’s actually done a good job) and Lee when he was out.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
If you noticed Tony Romo has 3 TD passes against the Vikings...
every single time it was a Lito Sheppard job…he got burned 3 times.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 19, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Julius Peppers
would NOT make a good 3-4 end. He would be undersized, and all he wants to do is rush the QB. That is not the 3-4 end’s responsibility in Caper’s scheme. The end is to maintain the point of attack and take up blockers so the LB’s can make a play, which is absolutely not what Peppers would want to do. That signing would have been disastrous, especially at the price he wanted.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Also
Yes, I can imagine getting actual pressure from the DE. What do you think Jenkins and (when I’ve seen him out there) Neal have been doing?
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
did you watch the miami game???
Maybe I missed something…but I did not see Henne getting any pressure at all from the DE position.
I was referring to
Can you imagine getting actual pressure from the DE position along with Mathews at LB…?
When Mathews is out there, we are getting pressure from both sides. With Mathews out they can focus more on stopping Jenkins.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Wasn't Julius Peppers
the guy who hated his Def Coordinator in Carolina who’s now our offensive line coach… yeah thats a match made in heaven… plus Peppers ins known for his play when I want attitude… has he looked good in Chicago? Yes… could you expect that from him after he got his big payday this offseason… HELL NO… it’s like the Randy Moss thing… Hindsight it would’ve been a great signing back in the day… but at the time you don’t know what you’re getting with players like that
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Defensive line coach**
damn… I’ve been ranting about the Offensive line way to much its affecting my posts lol
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn straight!
He went out and got Nance and…
Anthony Smith!!!!!
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Oct 18, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Based on your other comments
I’m assuming this is pure sarcasm… So if you’re going to respond to something I wrote at least do what I asked and name the people out there on the trade block that he should go after and sign and then come talk to me
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
You seem to be drawn
to Big Name people who were great in the past. If thats the style of team and GM you want… go do some research on Dan Synder and see how the format of signing big name free agents just because you can works out
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Last i recall
Dan Snyder’s team beat this one. So maybe a little Dan Snyder is what GB needs.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Oct 18, 2010 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You want us to go sign big named people just to do it?
How’s Albert Haynesworth working out for Washington. We lost that game for 2 reasons. One, we fielded a 2nd string defense and still almost won it and two, we plain and simple got outcoached both after we lost two tight ends and after the half.
Now if you want to complain about the coaching game and how TT missed on that then we might have a discussion… but you’re telling me you want to break the bank and just sign high profile guys to sign them? When was the last time Washington was really relevant in the playoff conversation let alone Super Bowl talks w/ that mentality
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Dan Snyder is a moron
He attempts to be the Yankees of the NFL, only without any clue on how to run a franchise or how the NFL works.
Yeah, that’s what we want.
I was just curious...
Due to the rash of injuries to the Packers LB corp… perhaps picking up A. Thomas would not be a bad thing. Yeah – I agree he is not worth starting player money…but he probably could help out right now.
And I agree…we don’t want a GM to go spending money left and right. I don’t think anyone here is asking for that.
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