Packers Blown Special Teams: 4th Quarter Penalty
by Brandon on Oct 18, 2010 7:01 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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PrintWhile the Green Bay Packers 5 yard penalty on LB Robert Francois with 7:18 to go in the 4th quarter didn't directly lead to a score, it gave the Dolphins a fresh set of downs. Four plays later, the Dolphins scored on a TD pass to TE Anthony Fasano. It forced the Packers to execute a game tying TD drive, instead of a game winning TD drive, a few minutes later. Here's the explanation from the Journal-Sentinel:
It is a penalty that takes more than one person to actually see. You’ve got one official who’s looking and he sees that there’s a man directly over the center. After the play, then he has to check with the two guys that are on the line of scrimmage to see if that man was up within a yard of the line. And so it takes that communication between the officials.
Here's what Greg Bedard said after reviewing a still shot:
While Francois was not a yard-and-a-half off the ball as McCarthy claims (maybe that far from the center's head) Francois was around a yard and maybe a few inches more from the ball. The penalty shouldn't have been called.
Fine. It's not technically a penalty because (as the still shot shows) Francois was back over a yard off the snapper.
But why did he have to be lined up directly over the snapper anyway? If he had just been told to stand a yard either to his left or right, then he wouldn't have given the refs anything to talk about. And from what I recall, he was just dropping back to block anyway. Why did the coaches allow him to stand in that spot anyway? Or maybe they didn't and the player made a mistake?
A critical mental error for a team that has no room for mental errors now that they're missing some of their top playmakers. And part of the reason why their record stands at 3-3 and why they aren't winning some of these close games.
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How many years?
What is this, the 3rd or the 4th year GB’s special teams have been rotten? Miami’s special teams are bad, but somehow they still look better than GB’s.
Yes, the pennalty was questionable, but that is not the reason ST’s suck.
Get it done already, this is pathetic and is a direct reflection of the coaching staff.
Both Slocum and Francois say he lined up appropriately so not player error.
Slocum said he even went so far as to remind Francois to make sure to line up far enough off the center. Why he had him in that position is a mystery though.
TBD
Third week in a row I am saying this...............
For all intensive purposes—The Packers Season is OVER—8-8 is the best they will do this year—McCarthy needs to go—there is NO Discipline on this team !!
how easily we forget 2009
Thome Walks-Off Sox, Twists Knife, Continues To Make Sox Brass Look REALLY Stupid - White Sox Season Recap
That's the year we won the SB, right?
Oh, just lost a very sloppy first round game.
by Danwood on Oct 18, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Intensive purposes"?
WTF is that??? Did you mean “all INTENTS AND purposes?”
As to the substance of your comment — it’s too early to give up on the season. The rest of the NFC pretty much sucks, so the Packers are in a solid position to make the playoffs.
rotflmao..
agree with your view..no one is out of this playoff race and whoverer gets hot in December has a legit shot to go all the way.
Sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.
"A critical mental error"
Can that be our slogan for the MM era? It was one big critical mental error?
Whether you are pro MM or anti MM
I always thought the penalties were a function of our youth, but you could you look at INdy and their youth and lack of penalties. Anyways, the fifth year is the crucial year, we are an 8 – 8 team at best, and so McCarthy is gone after this year. Guarantee it. Injuries or no injuries.
Next, we will have a coach who is a disciplinarian, probably drop the ZBS and go to a more power orientation. Which means we are going to revamp most of the offensive line. (Bye to Wells, Clifton, Tausch and Colledge)
And MM will go down like Lindy INfante, or Mike Sherman, a footnote in Packer history.
by PackFaninFL on Oct 18, 2010 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
You get a rec
“Drop the ZBS.” Wiser words could not be said.
Rec'd
for both being an awesome analysis in the first paragraph and making me happy and giving me hope w/ the second
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
if we're an 8-8 team at best
then it’s only so because of the insane amount of injury issues we’re facing. going into this season, I thought we were looking at 11-5 as a most likely scenario, and given injury problems on our slate I still see this as a 9-7 squad, with 10-6 still a possibility. all this “8-8 at best” talk is just the frustration talking.
if there’s a coaching issue, it’s the strength & conditioning coach to blame. you could then conceivably extrapolate that MM signed off on that coach’s plan/overall approach, sure, but that’s not directly on him. but barring some sort of 4-12 collapse, MM will be given a pass on this season unless he totally blows it from a coaching perspective – not outside the realm of possibility, mind you.
I do heartily agree that the zone blocking scheme has been a total failure, however.
We're missing 2 people on offense
and only putting up 13 and 20 points in the last two games. That’s on coaching and offensive playcalling. Our defense is the side decimated w/ injuries and they’re the only thing keeping us in games anymore. So it’s not the injuries fault we’re 3-3 it’s the offensive coaches and playcallers
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
we're missing 2 of our 3 focal point players on O
…without sufficient backups behind them to maintain our regular schemes, so I’m willing to buy some slippage on offense. having said that, I also agree with your assertion that play calling has been poor to say the least, and that clearly falls on MM. but I think he’ll still get a pass on the season unless the team totally collapses, which it clearly has not (yet).
there’s certainly a good deal of blame that should be set at TT’s feet as well for not being willing to do what’s needed to get us sufficient talent on the o-line to be able to adjust our schemes should a calamity such as the loss of Finley and Grant. we currently don’t have the flexibility to adjust sheme-wise up front, and over the course of a game we’re going to have issues keeping up the pace on offense.
Ted drafted an Oline in the first round this year
You don’t just replace 5 people with top tier talent that easy. He’s tried getting lineman in the past they just dont seem to pan out so yes, he has whiffed on the line but who do you want him to go sign?… not to mention most of our castoff lineman still have jobs in the NFL… maybe they just werent fit for the ZBS which falls on the coach for not playing to his teams strengths.
We lost Finley and that hurts… but Quarless has a very similar skill-set but is just a bit more raw being a rookie and all. And Grant isn’t that important to this offense… Jackson averaging over 4+ yards the past few games but is just never used
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree on the 8-8 comment
However, I am starting to agree that McCarthy needs to go. This team is just so talented and for this team to underperform as much as they have just seems wrong. I’m starting to think that a coaching change could get this team to that next level.
I hate to tack this on as well, but I’m also starting to wonder about Rodgers. He’s a great quarterback, but something is missing there. I can’t exactly put my finger on it, but it’s the difference between great and elite. It’s this ability to consistently win the big games, to do what is needed to get the win. Maybe it will develop in time (like either Manning, Favre, or other QBs who took some time to win the big one) and that’s what I hope happens. I don’t want to see him become the next Dan Marino (an elite QB who never wins the big game).
A Terrible Blown Call
Francois was clearly over a yard off of the ball. On top of that, Miami had a player lined up in a position where he could take a direct snap. This nullifies the rule and you are able to have a player over the center. What a terrible blown call by the refs. The refs enforced a rule that did not apply to the formation and then applied it incorrectly. This was a terrrible mistake by the refs that had a huge effect on the outcome of the game.
This is a penalty that the Packers have had called on them before….Slocum needs to coach his special teams formations which he clearly is not. Besides if he was dropping into coverage what was he doing there in the first place???
The problem is
he was right where he was supposed to be according to Slocum. So Slocum is coaching the ST formations but he’s doing a bad job of it. Theres no reason to even be close to that line-up ever.
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Francois penalty..
while may have been a bad call, who cares? This offensive juggernaut got the ball in OT and only had to drive to field goal range, kick the field goal and the Pack is 4-2. The special teams though did their usual job of screwing up with the block in the back penalty of the punt return, making the drive tougher.
Sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.
Lets say there is no block in the back
We didn’t get a first down in OT anyway so we were getting into FG position
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 18, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
8-8
MM has to go. You can rationalize it all you want but the things that suck this year are the same from yea to year. And this pushing the ball down the field crap is getting old. Get a freakin" first down, every pass play doesn’t have to net 25 yds. And why wouldn’t he keep a tight end in to help Bulaga who had his ass handed to him. Since Finley, they aren’t part of the offense at all anyway. I mean, put an OT at tight end…do something.
If MM isn’t going to fix pass protection he should play Flynn before Rodgers gets killed out there
coaching blame?
has anyone ever considered the possibility of player responsibility? i mean, coaches aren’t dropping passes, missing tackles, throwing int’s, fumbling, blowing assignments
and committing penalties.
last year we had very little turnovers and got many. this year not so much, rodgers already has as many int’s as he had last year and we ain’t getting as many turnovers in return. plus the fact that our 3rd down offense is 1 of the worst in the league right now, we’re dreadfull at converting 3rd downs——that is the major problem. you have to convert to sustain drives and keep the depleted defense off the field, which will allow you to score more points. the packers just have to execute better offensively.
i’m stickong with 10-6 and 1 and done in the playoffs. mm will not get fired because ted would not admit he made a mistake in the hiring. look at the draft picks he sticks with till the bitter end. ted is loyal to a fault. plus, your’re not going to get a big name coach to come to gb and work with thompson. the “big name guys” have had success their way and want some say in who is brought in——player wise. thompson would never relinquish that responsibility that was bestowed upon him. he would have to hire another 1st year head coach that will not threaten ted’s decisions on players. new system being brought in could mean another couple years for the players to get used 2, maybe i’m right, year 10 may be the year if mm is fired.
True to a degree. But we have always seemed to have tackling issues and dropping issues. Those aren’t really coachable things at this point in a guy’s career. But some of the other ones you listed are, like blowing assignments and committing penalties. I mean maybe we’ve just assembled a team of really dumb guys and that’s the reason for all the terrible mental mistakes which I guess is a possibility but to me it seems more likely that those things have to do with McCarthy’s lack of discipline over the team.
I’d even put the 3rd conversion failures on McCarthy. If he would stick to the damn run for once, teams would actually respect our running game in 3rd and short situations (which we’ve seen a lot of this season). The players aren’t executing but it doesn’t help any when you have your coach making things even harder on you.
by packallday555 on Oct 18, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
these
are supposed to be professional football players. the coaches can put the players in the right situations to succeed, but it’s up to the players to execute the gameplan. i don’t think there’s a coach out there that puts their team in a position to lose.
sometimes the execution of the plays is done poorly and sometimes you get beat by teams that just have as much talent as the packers. at the end of every season your record is what you are for that year. excusses be damned.
NEWS FLASH!!!!!!
just reported on espn “finely is out for the season”
see ya next year jermichael.
There are many close games in the NFL!
For a refs bad call to decide the outcome is sad and should be investigated. Someone is getting paid off. Close does not count, but does that not apply on penalties also???? As a coach you put your players in the best possible position! It was a bad bad call and the refs should be fined. Like last week with the missed roughing call, and all refs get is a slap on wrist! All of you calling for MM and TT heads are just fair weather fans. All the good years have fans spoiled. Support the best and most unique sports or cheer for a team like the raiders or cowboys!
Calling for MM and TT heads
is not being fair weathered fans. It’s people making (sometimes) legitimate points about the short comings of each and in the interested of seeing the team succeed.
On a related note, people complaining about refs losing the game are whiners who are ignoring the fact that a good team should never let a game get to the point where the refs could have an impact.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
This is whiner talk
This is what they write on the Rams blogs. Winners don’t whine about referees — they take games out of the control of the referees. The statement about referees getting paid off is very serious — what evidence do you have to support such a bold statement? If the answer is “nothing,” then please leave this site.
by ktenreb on Oct 18, 2010 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Special Teams Coach
When a coach has to show “photographic evidence” to reporters, that screams of someone who knows they’re on the way out. It comes off as somebody who is trying to deflect blame of himself.
Exactly right
Although, in my opinion, it’s not so much about knowing he’s going to get fired (although that’s sometimes true). It’s a matter of blaming somebody else for the fact that he sucks. It’s the deathnell for a team’s chances.
It’s an immutable law of sports: when high-profile members of an organization (GMs, coaches, star players) start blaming anyone or anything for their perfomance — and especially their win/loss record — it is always sure evidence of a spiral of suckitude that will last as long as that person is with the team.
Any player who thinks like this is a problem. But, when a LEADER starts blaming the refs, whining about bad bounces or bad luck (especially if he says “if you change X, Y and Z, then we would have _ more wins”), …when this happens, it’s over. It’s a contageous attitude. It’s the opposite of how a winning team thinks (i.e. “I’m going to focus on doing MY JOB perfectly and with total effort on every play, no matter what everybody else does”).
When leaders start making excuses, the followers check out. Now, I don’t know if I’d call Slocum a “leader,” so we’ll see how this plays out, but it’s definitely something to watch for. The season’s not over yet, but it will be if this attitude catches on.
by Curly Lambeau on Oct 18, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I totally agree, except...
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying you were in the right formation when you were. If coaches have to start preparing for “just in case the refs decide to call the same bogus call, I’ll have my players line up in a slightly different position…” All you can do is prepare based on the rulebook, and there’s nothing wrong with pleading your case.
It really depends on the context. If he brings it up so that he doesn’t have to deal with that BS in future games, then it’s legit. If he brings it up as an excuse for last week’s game’s outcome, then it’s a problem. Regardless, Slocum sucks because his coverage and return units consistently suck, and McCarthy’s given him way too long of a rope.
What about a player using photograpic evidence?
And what if said photo is very graphic?
Could that lead to tendonitis?
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 18, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, Rectastic
"Pain is only in the mind. For me. Others, no." - Pornstache
"I also remember he threw the ball back to me harder then I threw it to the plate, so that was a little bit worrisome to me." - Boggs on Motte
by GasHouseMang on Oct 19, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, where did all the Eyores come from????
Our second string has forced two average teams at full strength into overtime and suddenly the coaches stink and the sky is falling.
The injuries have taken us from a first class team to an average team. A lot of teams would kill to be as “bad” as we are. Like Dallas for instance.
If you want the adrenaline rush of self-righteous condemnation please go spew at the GBPG or jsonline.
On another note:
Does anyone have a thought about why Rogers ran from the pocket so quickly? It looked to me like he created three of the sacks by charging off in the direction of Bulaga’s blocks. Had his passing lanes collapsed? MM was crediting poor footwork by the QB as one of the causes for the sacks Is he referring to the same thing? A thoughtful response on this issue would be appreciated.
by 50 years and Counting on Oct 18, 2010 8:09 PM CDT reply actions
In my honest opinion
I believe it’s because MM was calling too many long pass plays and Rodgers didn’t feel the pocket would hold long enough for the receivers to get open.
Agree but
I agree they kept trying to complete another 83 yarder. But Rogers seemed to have a knack for heading in the same direction that Bulaga was taking his man. If Bulaga took him upfield Rogers tried to step back and out. If Bulaga took his man to the ground Rogers step right up next to him.
Did it seem to you that he was leaving the pocket too quickly? Maybe not trusting his line?
by 50 years and Counting on Oct 18, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I thought he was abandoning too early
Bulaga did all that he could. As I mentioned in another thread Bulaga was getting picked on by the TV crew, and unfairly so. Rodgers really brought almost all of his sacks upon himself.
We were watching different games, I suppose
Rodgers has a tendency to hold on to the ball too long. This is the reason, I submit, that McCarthy won’t run the 5 receiver sets the way he did during Favre’s last year, because to run that offense you need to be able to read and decide on a three-step drop. Rodgers doesn’t have a feel for that.
HOWEVER, I do not agree with defending Bulaga’s performance on Sunday. He outweighed the DE by almost 100 pounds, and het he was getting bullrushed and tossed aside. He looked absolutely terrible, and shame on McCarthy for not chipping to that side. I don’t want to be on record as saying that Bulaga sucks, because I don’t think he belongs on the right side of the line. He was drafted as a left tackle, and he needs to work at that position and develop. Bouncing him around the offensive line does nobody any good.
Agreed..
It’s funny how most people thought that the O-line would not be an issue this year. Clifton and Tauscher were healthy blah, blah, blah..
In the grand scheme, this team has lost 3 games each by a filed goal either in overtime, or in the last seconds of the game. No one in the NFC looks invincible. Hang in there, win a few games, and the playoffs are still in reach.
Sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.
Well, I think the O-line COULD be fine. Why is Bulaga playing RT??? What happened to Lang? Why are they flipping the rookie all over the field? They’ve had him prepping for LT, LG, and then they stick him in at RT? wth? That’s coaching, and it drives me nuts.
by Curly Lambeau on Oct 19, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously! Why isn’t Lang lining up at RT? He actually looked good there last season when filling in. Why not develop him some more?
I remember reading on JS Online when Tauscher first went down that if he were to miss time that Buluga would replace him because of the fact that he was a high pick. I bursted out into laughter when I read that. That’s hardly a reason to start a guy over someone else, and I doubt that’s the real reason but that’s the only thing I’ve ever read regarding Buluga over Lang.
Also, if we’re not going to use Lang at RT, which seems to be the case, why not play him at LG over Colledge? He’s been absolutely terrible. Lang showed promise last season, especially run blocking, and was also said by McCarthy to be a natural LG more times then I can count on one hand.
It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.
by packallday555 on Oct 19, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Colledge is playing better this year
Lang had wrist surgery and I guess he didn’t recover from that very well. I think that the team thinks he isn’t physically ready to play.
Playing better isn’t saying much about Colledge.
I suppose that’s probably the reason. I remember that he didn’t heal well but he was still out there for training camp. I guess I just figured six weeks would be enough time for him to be physically ready.
by packallday555 on Oct 20, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
No, that’s wrong. Lang’s been active every week, even playing playing defensive tackle on the goal line.
Lang’s fine. The coaches are just idiots.
by Curly Lambeau on Oct 20, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
again…the injuries are on D but the struggles have been on O. You can call it injuries but its not the D that is losing games for us right now. Unless losing Grant was THAT much of a killer for us and then how did we NOT trade for someone knowing that? Now its too late to trade for someone, its time to roll with Starks and hope he can get out there and make an impact quickly.
Forget the trade
The roster should have been constructed with a legitimate backup halfback. I have a hard time accepting that Starks is the answer.
Fair point, but...
It’s only after losses that coaches make excuses. That’s why this is all coming out now.
…and, btw, I predicted 9-7 and was talking about all this before the season too. So, I don’t “suddenly” think the sky is falling. In fact, I don’t think the sky is necessarily falling at all. I still think we’ve got a chance to get to the postseason and make some noise there. But the coaches letting themselves off the hook with excuses hurts our chances. If things are going to turn around (a big “if” at this point), then what’s got to happen is the players have got to pull together and go all out. That’s less likely to happen if the coaches are make excuses when they fail.
by Curly Lambeau on Oct 19, 2010 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
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