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Around SBN: In Crunch Time, Spurs Don't Change Their Game

Preview: Minnesota Vikings at Green Bay Packers

This preview is coming several hours later this week then usual because I had to wait until Friday's practice was over for the Green Bay Packers. The injury situation left too many variables re: the linebackers. Will Hawk and Chillar return to help the run defense? Will Matthews return to provide a pass rush?

The answer to those questions now appears to be that they will play on Sunday. My complete analysis is after the jump, and it details the two different Viking offenses (pass-heavy vs. run-heavy) that have showed up over the past two weeks since the return of Moss. Unfortunately I'm expecting this game will be somewhere in the middle with a lot of AP on early downs to keep them out of 3rd and long, and a lot of attacks down field on passes to Moss, Harvin, and Shiancoe. 

Based on the Packers last five games, I expect this will be another close one. The return of Matthews is essential in getting the defense off the field (something they struggled with in his absence last week). I would have predicted a loss he wasn't able to return. Still I remain pessimistic about this game. The Packers managed to score 20 points last week despite having their offense stuck on the sidelines for most it, and the Vikings haven't scored more than 24 points in any game this year while averaging 17 ppg. Packers 20, Vikings 17.

Star-divide

How will the Packers offense play against the Vikings defense?

 - The Vikings are the best defense the Packers have faced this season. The next closest defense according to Football Outsiders is the Bears, and you could expect to see a similar offensive attack where QB Aaron Rodgers takes the short passes the Vikings give him, but they're unable to connect on anything deep. That could lead to a lot of yards, but not a lot of points. 

 - The Packers offense is similar to the Cowboys offense, according to Football Outsiders, which has the Packers ranked No. 7 overall, and the Cowboys at No. 9. Looking back at the drive chart from last week's Cowboys at Vikings game, the Cowboys managed three touchdown drives, and were completely shut down the rest of the game. Those TD drives were kept alive by converting on 3rd down, something the Packers have been lousy at the past two weeks. They also seemed to rely mostly on short passes to TE Jason Whiten and RB Felix Jones. This outlook might lead to another pass-heavy game for the Packers as they slowly move down the field. But they'll have to convert better on 3rd down (and avoid any difficult 3rd and long situations like they were in constantly against the Dolphins) to make it work. 

 - One other note: while the Vikings know Mike McCarthy and his offense well, the defensive coordinators in the last two weeks (Jim Haslett for the Redskins, Mike Nolan for the Dolphins) really know McCarthy well since they were his head coach in New Orleans and San Francisco when McCarthy was their offensive coordinator. Maybe they knew him too well, and that was part of the problem over the last two weeks.

How will the Packers defense play against the Vikings offense? It's been a tale of two games since they traded for WR Randy Moss.

 - Against the Jets, they were twice as likely to throw as they were to run. Maybe the plan was to throw the ball more, but they were shut out for the first 40 minutes of that game and that forced to throw the ball a lot. QB Brett Favre had 34 attempts, and 27 of them were thrown to either Moss, WR Percy Harvin, or TE Visanthe Shiancoe. Putting pressure on Favre, and forcing him to make a bad pass, is one of the keys to the game. That pressure is a lot more likely to happen since Mike McCarthy expects LB Clay Matthews to play.

 - Against the Cowboys, Shiancoe was nursing an injured hamstring and blocking TE Jim Kleinsasser made the start. This time, they were 50% more likely to run the ball instead of throwing it. This decision was a surprise since the Cowboys do not have a good pass defense, but they do have an elite pass rusher in LB DeMarcus Ware. Once again Favre played favorites, attempting 12 passes to Moss and Harvin, while the rest of the receivers only targeted a combined 7 times. I'm not expecting a run heavy attack. The return of LB A.J. Hawk and LB Brandon Chillar, who seems ready to play, should reinforce a good run defense that limited the Dolphins to 3.8 ypc last week while allowing no run longer than 12 yards. But just as the Dolphins used those runs on early downs to keep themselves out of 3rd and long, the Vikings might lean heavily on RB Adrian Peterson on 1st down.

How will special teams play a role against the Packers?

 - They've been noticeably bad to anyone who's watched them play over the past four weeks. If they had avoided a missed (or blocked) FG in the Chicago or Washington games, and if they could have avoided a huge illegal formation penalty on a 4th quarter punt, they're three losses could have easily become wins. Kicking at WR Devin Hester was not a good idea, and avoiding Harvin, no matter how bad his hamstring is hurting him, on kick off returns would be another good idea.

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Boy, hope i'm wrong...

I think the most important thing you missed in the above analysis is Chad Clifton and Bryan Bulaga vs Jared Allen and Ray Edwards…I think we are absolutely toast with those two on the outside. I think Bulaga might be abused by Edwards. We might be crying for TJ Lang around the 3rd quarter.

And if my first paragraph is correct, then Aaron Rodgers will have “happy feet” again like in the Dolphins game. And even look indecisive at times.

Also, we hung in there with Washington and Miami. Two mediocre offenses. Out of those two teams, the only game breaker I feared was Brandon Marshall. Vikings have four guys that can break open a game. Harvin, Moss, Peterson and let me throw in the old guy Favre.

And how will our kick off coverage do against Percy Harvin? Makes me cringe.

I am way pessimistic here. But Vikings take control in the 4th and pull away, 30-17.

Hope I’m as wrong about this as Favre was for sending those text messages.

by PackFaninFL on Oct 22, 2010 4:47 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

You know what's great?

Nothing from last year really matters anymore…

Obviously, Minnesota will hire John L. Smith to be their next head football coach.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 22, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully Rodgers plays as well as he did against the Vikings last year

52 for 78, 671 yards, 5 TDs and 1 INT across the two games. Hopefully he doesn’t get sacked 14 times though.

by Archibaldcrane on Oct 22, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Vikings have averaged 17 PPG

 this year, and only managed 188 yards of offense last week against Dallas. Let’s not start to act or believe that they’re some offensive juggernaut. They may well be by the end of the year, but they certainly aren’t right now.

But I will agree that if Minnesota can get pressure with their front four that it will be a long night.

by TarHeelHawk on Oct 22, 2010 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Dolphins have a very comparable return guy to Harvin in Bess.

The difference is that both teams have QBs that have looked better THIS year than Favre has…his WRs only look as good as their QB and he’s really struggled with accuracy this year.

Both the Redskins and Dolphins have outscored the Vikings this year, they also both have better records. Both of those teams have more yards and have better turnover ratios. Honestly the stats don’t back up what you are saying.

by TrevorR on Oct 23, 2010 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep you're right...

you nailed me as far as the Vikes offense so far. But something tells me this Vikes offense is going to break out and stop average just 16 points a game. I see too much talent.

But right now, there is nothing in the stats, box scores that shows it has to happen this weekend.

But I wouldn’t bet that they average 16-17 pts per game by year’s end.

And I love that we get Clay, Pickett and Chillar back. That’s a biiig boost of depth and leadership to our D. It’s gonna be an interesting game.

by PackFaninFL on Oct 23, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pickett

Is he definitely playing? THought I read he was unlikely (doubtful) to go this week…

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Oct 23, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pickett is listed as questionable.

by GinSlinger on Oct 24, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I read that he was probably going to play, along with Chillar and Matthews.

by packallday555 on Oct 24, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I read that too.

But can’t remember where. It wasn’t in MM’s Friday presser.

by GinSlinger on Oct 24, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure I saw it from Bedard on JS Online.

by packallday555 on Oct 24, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree, I think they’ll get it going too…but up until now they haven’t. They’ve been up and down and most of it is due to Favre’s arm. I wonder if he’s actually holding the team back by playing when maybe he should take a week or two off to see if it gets better.

by TrevorR on Oct 24, 2010 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not too optimistic about this one

Minnesota’s front line can provide pressure without having to biltz, and we’ve all seen our tackles struggle so far this year. Their special teams are so much better than ours that it brings tears to my eyes. And of course, memories of 1998 Randy Moss still gives me nightmares.

I think the Packers can win but we’ll have to see a different Packer team than we’ve seen so far this season (except for brief sightings here and there). We need more first downs to keep our D off the field, more yardage on 1st and 2nd to keep 3rd manageable. And of course we need Clay Matthews healthy for the whole game, and at least one other person to have a good game in the pass rush. If Favre has time in the pocket and starts to feel comfortable we could be in big trouble. If Rodgers has time in the pocket and starts to feel comfortable the Vikings will be in big trouble. So go Packers O-line and let’s hope our trainers have a good game and keep everyone loose and properly stretched. Woo-hoo!

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 22, 2010 9:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Great point on 3rd down conversion

Last year, Rodgers had an unbelievable 133.5 QB rating on third downs, let the league. No interceptions. This year, 4 TDs, 4 INTs and he’s 25th with a 59 QB rating.

WE MUST CONVERT ON THIRD DOWN.

Rodgers and the offense must show they are big money on 3rd down. I don’t blame Rodgers totally though — our WRs have been dropping way too many.

If we convert on third down, we have a better chance.

by PackFaninFL on Oct 22, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Many factors

Lack of dedication/effectiveness in running game, subpar protection/playcalling, drops, Rodgers’ decision-making a little off . . .

All of which lead to third and longs. Third and longs lead to a lack of sustained drives. Which leads to poor punts/coverage by our “special” teams. Which in turn leads to a tired defense as the game goes on. Which leads to us losing close games because our offense can’t hold the ball long enough to get into rhythm.

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 22, 2010 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the analysis

Lots of good, substantial angles to think about in what you wrote.

I’ve been very gloomy in most of my predictions so far, but I’m actually hugely optimistic in this one. The only point in the above post that I’d quibble with is that this is the best defense we’ve faced. I’d say Philadelphia was better. They were just playing really well that day. …flying around and keeping pressure on us at all levels. And we responded and gutted that one out despite Mike Vick at the top of his game.

But the real difference is going to be, as the old saying goes, “it’s not who you play; it’s how you play.” The Packers back is against the wall, and that’s when they always surprise everyone and play well. Then, I think Favre’s going to respond by getting generous with the turnovers.

I’ve got a really good feeling about this one. I think we win in a walk.

Pack 35, Vikes 13.

Mark it, Dude.

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 1:51 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Marked with a Rec!

-
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!

The glass is way more than half-full!

by NorthStarr on Oct 23, 2010 4:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is not 'Nam, Curly, there are rules!

Packers need to stay away from penalties, in other words.

I think the determining factor in this game will be the offensive lines. Let’s hope Allen continues to be AWOL and that our line pulls it together. Our D-line should be good if they don’t tire out – it’s too bad Mike Neal can’t be in there.

Also, Quarless has a chance to have a big game. He’s got the speed to get deep and the Vikings safeties are unsafe at any speed.

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kodos, were you listening to the Dude's story?

Penalties, protection, pressure… These are things that are issues when a team plays lazy (and our team has most certainly been that). But, when everybody’s selling out and playing like maniacs, that stuff seems to take care of itself, and suddenly it’s a revelation and everybody’s like “why can’t it be this easy every week?”

…and then we’ll commit three early turnovers next week and give up 8 sacks and lose on a 4th quarter drive again.

But for this week… Do you see what happens, Chilly? Do you SEE what happens?!

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't being fatuous

That’s a great plan, Curly. That’s fuckin’ ingenious, if I understand it correctly. It’s a Swiss fuckin’ watch.

Does someone need to get Woodson a toe? Does he want a toe? I can get him a toe, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don’t wanna know about it, believe me.

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

So this quarterback that the Vikings stole, he was a valued, uh… He was a valued…

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHAHA!!

We are talking about Unchecked Aggression, across this line you DO NOT —

Also, Dude, “Viqueens” is not the preferred nomenclature.

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Forget it, Brett, you’re out of your element

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

And this is the Passing Achievement award, which Mr. Favre received for his various, ah, civic, ah…

And THIS is his MVP award which is given out every — well not necessarily every year, but only when there’s a worthy, ah…

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

This whole fucking thing… I did not watch my buddies die face down in the muck so that this fucking strumpet…

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, he’s a sex offender

This is our concern, Dude

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

This photo was taken when Ms. Sterger was sideline reporter for the Jets, yes yes, not the massage therapist. Deana was present as well, but unfortunately she couldn’t pose for the picture.

Well, Jen’s pretty good.

Oh, wonderful woman! We were very pleased that, ah…

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

And THESE are Mr. Favre’s receivers. Receivers of PROMISE, but without the necessary means for a necessary means for a proper receiving career.

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

They’re a bunch of fucking amateurs!

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, we proceeds. But only if there’s no funny stuff. So… no funny stuff, okay?

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Strong men also cry . . . strong men also cry

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know he’s got emotional problems, man.

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Calmer than you are.

He was a conscientious objector during the local media conference call.

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like yer style, dude.

Just one thing. Do you have to use so many curse words?

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is our concern, dude

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

You have no frame of reference here, Curly

You are like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie . . .

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is a league game. This determines who enters the next round robin. Am I wrong? AM I WRONG?!

by Curly Lambeau on Oct 23, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules?

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 23, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think I know why I was so pessimistic...

…when I made the prediction for this game above. It’s that DAMN RANDY MOSS PICTURE!

TAKE THAT PICTURE OFF! LOL It gets me in a bad, pessimistic mood. Just playing around.

But show the picture of Clay stripping Adrian Peterson for the next game.

by PackFaninFL on Oct 23, 2010 11:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Problem areas for the Packers vs Vikings

1. Scoring: Packers (and VIkings) have had trouble scoring this season. Packers need to score early & often. As observed above, 25 points will likely put this game away.

2. Don’t give them short fields (part 1): the Packers should really try to avoid punting from inside their own 20.

3. Don’t give them short fields (part 2): Cover Percy Harvin on punts and kickoffs. STAY IN YOUR LANE, and wrap up when you make a tackle!

4. Don’t give them short fields (part 3): don’t turn the ball over. Especially, don’t turn the ball over on the Packers’ side of the field.

by DaveInTucson on Oct 23, 2010 11:40 AM CDT reply actions  

LMFAO

Best F*ing joke I’ve heard yet!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Oct 23, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's get this greened up!

Recs everybody!

Extend Jared Dudley!

by Omaha Sun on Oct 23, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome!

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Oct 24, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

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