Analysis: The Refs Didn't Throw Three INTs For The Vikings
by Brandon on Oct 26, 2010 5:00 PM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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PrintI discuss penalties all the time, in the sense that the Green Bay Packers shouldn't commit so many of them. Though I do have to give them credit for cutting down on the special teams penalties so far this season. I did criticize the officials for failing to throw a flag on a shot to the head that concussed QB Aaron Rodgers, but as the title of this post explains, the first place you need to look after a big win or loss is in the mirror. I hate writing about officiating, but all of the recent news regarding Brad Childress's post-game tirade has made this issue impossible to ignore.
I don't expect much from NFL officials. The rules are subjective, the officials are human, and sometimes what looks like a penalty to one official doesn't to another. I'm just glad that NFL officials aren't as bad as the jerks in the NBA. Or some of the prima donna umpires in MLB. They're not perfect, but the NFL officials are the best in the three major sports.
The only complaints I've read about in "the worst coached officiated game I've ever seen" concern two plays. The touchdown pass to TE Visanthe Shiancoe that was overturned on review, and the touchdown pass to TE Andrew Quarless that he didn't have control of. The second isn't a problem with officiating, they don't have x-ray vision to see through three players, it's a problem with the coaches not challenging a play. Let's give them the Shiancoe touchdown pass, so they can have their tied game.
Then we can give to the Packers, thanks to Aaron Schatz for the descriptions, the 1st down reception to WR Greg Jennings that wasn't, and the 4th down carry by FB John Kuhn that went for a 1st down but was blown dead before he crossed the marker. Or we can look back at the tape and marvel at the lack of holding calls against RT Phil Loadholt (he ended up with only one penalty in the game). We could take a closer look at this all week!
Back to my earlier discussion of the Redskins game, if the official had actually called that penalty when Rodgers was hit in the head while throwing an INT, it could have turned the game around. Instead my complaints after the game were that the special teams sucked (again), and that Mike McCarthy turned down the chance for a chip shot FG so they could go for it on 4th and goal. Blaming the officials doesn't help a team at all going forward and instead they should look at what their players and coaches can control.
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I'd agree w/ this 100%
If you look back at most of our posts after some of those games, we questioned a few calls but also admitted we played a crappy game and should’ve put ourselves in a position where those calls don’t dictate the outcome.
As far as my analysis of the 2 plays in question… The Quarless TD… I don’t know the exact rules for the process and completions and what not… but from what I saw, he caught the ball, landed in-bounds, and completed the process out of bounds. I don’t know if you’re allowed to complete the process out of bounds or not but since the ball NEVER touched the ground I think its a catch and TD.
The Shiancoe TD is less argueable in my mind. The ball was pointed tip down and wedged between hes hands/arms and when it hit the ground the ball moved up into his forearms/chest area. Since the ball both hit the ground AND moved you have to rule no catch on that play.
The best part is the whole Childress saying the league apologized to him about the play… my guess is the conversation went kind of like this
Childress: “Can you explain the Shiancoe overturn to me?”
NFL Guy: “Well it’s a pretty close call so I don’t know if there was really enough to overturn it either way but the ref saw something that made him do it anyways”
Childress: See media the NFL said it shouldn’t have been overturned and we were screwed… someone tell Chris Gates that the DN complaints are true and they were right to ban anyone who disagreed
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 26, 2010 5:17 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
That's about exactly how I think that Childress/NFL conversation went.
That’s why I’m really skeptical that everyone’s taking Childress’ apology claim at face value without anyone from the NFL confirming it. When the NFL acknowledges screwing up a call, they do so directly, not through some private apology to a coach.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 26, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
NFL Policy
is to not talk about any calls whatsover. So, I’m not exactly sure that Chilly got the apology he claims he did. I mean can you see anyone from the NFL saying to a head coach “yeah, we really blew that one – twice. Sorry about the loss, but we’re human too and make mistakes.” Instead, it was probably more like “well, yeah I can see why you feel you were screwed. I’m sorry you feel that way.”
by gern blanston on Oct 27, 2010 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
shianco
was a catch. NFL confirmed the mistake. Andrew Q was a bad call by CHILLY in not reviewing it. bad calls for both teams…
No disrespect here...
…but could you provide a reference? Seriously not trying to be a jerk or belabor the point but I keep hearing this from everyone except the NFL.
The Quarless TD should not have been a catch
You have to maintain possession all the way to the ground, which he did not do. The “process” isn’t referring to the act of GETTING possession of the ball, but rather the act of MAINTAINING possession of the ball.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
last sentence says it all
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
Rec'd
As much as they (the DN crazies and Vice Admiral Childress) whine about the calls that did not go their way, we could complain about the calls that went against us, or the noncalls that hurt the team.
But doing that is rather pointless. We’re 4-3, we’re tied for the NFCN lead, and unfounded revenge was thwarted. screwuR4F
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 5:20 PM CDT reply actions
Brandon, couldn't have put it better myself.
The simple fact is, there were calls that went against both teams Sunday night. If you’re going to complain that you got jobbed on several calls, then please recognize the fact that other calls went against your opponent.
The Vikings have been complaining about the calls constantly since the game Sunday night (I happen to know, I’ve heard the calls all the way over here). It seems the formula for Minnesota losing a game is to whine and complain about the refs. Ignore the fact that the other team beat you, the refs cost you the game.
I also didn’t like the fact that the “national media” echoed this. So the calls against the Packers didn’t matter? They mattered as well.
But you’re definitely right about the levels of officiating in baseball and the NBA. About the NBA referees, you said it for me. Baseball, however, is refusing to give their umpires the resources and help they need (thanks, Butt Selig), and I wonder if that will change when Selig is no longer their commissioner.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 5:34 PM CDT reply actions
I agree
It is up to the coaches to review the play and challenge it. Childress was at fault for not challenging those plays. McCarthy used both of his challenges early on in the game, which he got right. He challenged plays. Childress didn’t.
The Quarless catch was still a thing of beauty, and Green Bay was smart for not cheering all over the field. They kicked the PAT RIGHT after the TD.
The Visante TD still does not look like a TD to me. The ground helped him maintain possession of the ball. That’s what I saw in the replay while the commentators were expecting the TD to stand. And the refs did not call it a touchdown.
Green Bay has had 2 games botched because of refs. The Morgan Burnett botched Defensive Pass Interference play at Chicago and the helmet to helmet hit on Rodgers in the Redskins game. If those two calls were corrected, we are 6-1. End of story. Even with half of our starters injured.
So HA!, Minnesota.
Green Bay has had 2 games botched because of refs. The Morgan Burnett botched Defensive Pass Interference play at Chicago and the helmet to helmet hit on Rodgers in the Redskins game. If those two calls were corrected, we are 6-1. End of story. Even with half of our starters injured.
Exactly. We’ve definitely been on the bad end of some calls this season, and ones that have ultimately ended up costing us the game. Too hear a lot of them talk about how Goodell and the whole NFL is against them is just asinine.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact is,
You could probably find a play in which nearly every team got jobbed by the refs over the past few years. Detroit and Miami already got screwed this year.
So it’s not just Minnesota.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, it happens every week, in every game really. And I know the league said whatever about the Shiancoe catch but the ball did hit the ground, and did move further up into his forearms because of it. I wouldn’t have been mad had it stood as a Td because I could understand the referee seeing that as a catch. More than anything, it seems like a judgement call to me. It didn’t seem as black and white as some seem to be making it out to be.
Even the Quarless Td seemed fine too me. Yes, he bobbled but the ball never hit the ground. I think his catch and Johnson’s are very comparable actually. My understanding was Johnson’s didn’t count because he ultimately “dropped” (set down imo) it. Quarless bobbled but still maintained possession after the catch.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
well Johnson
was never out of bounds, Quarless was, no TD.
But Vikings fans can bitch about 2 calls… 2 calls. Can I repeat that, an entire game and you’re complaining about 2 FREAKING CALLS! I could complain about 3 or 4 calls on the last drive alone that were missed and could have made that ending much less stressful for me. The thing Vikings fans need to realize is that the Vikings also had 2 tds (that were clearly not tds) called for them and McCarthy/the booth had to change the call. So before they bitch that the refs were “paid off” realize that it appears the refs were trying to help the Vikings out to make this a closer game than it should have been.
Also, am I the only one who thought Williams was being held at the end of the AP screen at the end of the game? Would have been 3rd and 8 instead of 1st and 10
McCarthy needs to give Jackson more carries in hopes that he becomes the best running back in the NFL and has the right to steal a players nickname (you can do that when you’re good (Kearse taking Moss’ “freak”)) sorry AP you’re no longer AD. It’s gonna be All Day BJ for now on!!!!! (sorry)
Is that how that would work? Cause he did get his butt down. When he bobbled the ball out of bounds did that kind of eliminate him establishing possession originally? Too me, I thought since he established possession in bounds, and then eventually established possession going to the ground it should have technically been a catch. I didn’t and still don’t really know though.
Yeah, good point about their two Td’s reversed. We were in the same situation.
Jackson keeps getting better and better as the season goes on. I’d like to see him get some more carries too.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought the rule was
he has to establish possession in bounds and when you hit the ground, continue that possession. When he hit the ground the ball came out and thus lost possession. He then re-retained it but was out of bounds at that point. At least that’s how I always thought it was, no proof though. I really hate that rule, he has possession and the ground causes the bobble after he is down (since is butt hit). If it were in the field of play and he tried to get up after his butt hits, he’s down so he can’t run with the ball… it’s stupid that after his back hits and the ball comes out it’s no longer a TD.
I have no idea why BJax doesn’t get more touches, he has a solid average and seems to get better each game despite limited touches. It’s like Mik Mac is trying to keep him a secret for later in the season, like how Grant always got stronger in the second half
I thought the rule was he has to establish possession in bounds and when you hit the ground, continue that possession. When he hit the ground the ball came out and thus lost possession. He then re-retained it but was out of bounds at that point. At least that’s how I always thought it was, no proof though.
This could easily be it. I honestly have no idea. Too me, it’s just a matter of whether or not him bobbling but not dropping the ball AFTER he established possession in bounds eliminate that previous possession. It really is a stupid rule.
He just likes too pass so much. I’d like to see a lot more draw plays. In my opinion they’ll work great because teams expect us to pass and it will generally allow Jackson more space to work with. I’d also like to see the screen passes being a recurring thing from game to game. Both of those things seemed to really slow down the Vikings pass rush.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
ten million percent agree on the screens
I think cause the ground was involved he has to reestablish possession in bounds, but if a receiver catches a ball runs 5 yards, gets pushed out of bounds and then drops hit when hitting the ground out of bounds… it’s still a catch so I don’t know exactly what the rule it.
Also, I was casually looking at packers.com photos and saw this… another uncalled hold penalty to stop Matthews
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/uofmike/dsc_1410—nfl_medium_540_360.jpg
by uofmike on Oct 26, 2010 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was also my understanding of the rule
I’m pretty sure you’re right.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
The 3 INT’s and invisible DL is why the Vikings lost. All three of those throws Favre made were really, really bad aside from maybe his last one (still bad decision though). I still can’t believe he threw that one to Bishop. He clearly saw him because he was eying Moss up the whole way. The one to Hawk was just a poor throw. I’m not convinced that Jones hit effected him all that much but maybe it did.
Isn’t their defensive line supposed to be like one of the best in the league? Wasn’t Allen supposed to rack up multiple sacks, with Edwards doing the same against Buluga? Even Kevin Williams didn’t do much in the middle. Both Clifton and Buluga owned Allen and Edwards, and Sitton basically shut down whoever lined up over him. They got zero pass rush. Even less then we did.
Another thing I want to point out. Gates over on DN was telling TrevorR I believe, that Packers fans never respected the Vikings last season and always seemed to think we were better despite losing twice. While I disagree with that, and saw many people mention that the Vikings were just the better team, those who were supposedly telling the DN community that we were better may have been right. Whose not to say we don’t look like a whole different offense with Clifton and Tauscher/Buluga/Lang (anyone but Barbre) starting? Seems like we told them many times that if those guys were in there as opposed to back-ups the games could have very well been different, only to basically be laughed at. After Sunday night’s game, it seems we couldn’t have been any more right in that theory really.
Favre had at least three others that were dropped by the Packers...
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
Not sure but, from what I’ve read, it sounds like the Vikes game plan was to do minimal rush and clog the passing lanes instead. Not sure why what with their success rushing last year but even Rodgers was talking about how they were content to ease up and really get a jump on passes. Props still have to go to the line for keeping Rodgers clean even when they eventually got serious and tried to rush.
TBD
There's a *real* good question for Chilly
If Allen was getting shut down by Clifton all night long, why not switch him over to the left and get him matched up on our rookie a couple of times? The results couldn’t have been any worse then just letting CC stuff him all game long.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
So we put a guy in his way that could actually stop him
And they didn’t have anyone else that could possibly get around that roadblock. Tough crap, says I.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I'd imagine there's more of a difference
for linemen vs. linebackers.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Nope still just opposite...
Ask Bulaga, he already said that all he has to do is turn his technique and steps around!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Same thing when I bowl left-handed, haha.
Getting the steps down is the hard part.
After that, my body knows what to do.
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
But the point is that its harder than just saying “allen go play over there”. Sure its not a revolutionary change, its an adjustment and he’s not going to be AS effective. Lame reference, but take a RDE on Madden and move him to the other side and his numbers go down. Sure he could do it but its hard to say that they are going to get better by putting two guys in uncomfortable places (he and Edwards) just to get Allen on a rookie.
Generally agree...
But thats not taking into account that Bulaga would be playing against a guy he hadn’t prepared for either. Works both ways.
You've been Stroh'd!!!
True, but I would imagine his blocking style isn’t going to change THAT much from game to game, just a matter of what to expect from a player and I would think that with a player like Allen he’s going to already know a little about his techniques and if nothing else, the coaches could sit him down and tell him during a break.
But ultimately I don’t think the switch would have made a huge difference either way.
Usually, when your season is unraveling, and you're facing possible termination as a result
Rational thought goes out the window in favor of pointing fingers and whining.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 6:11 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Sorry Brandon, as an outsider this is definitely coming across as self-serving and slightly hypocritical.
All these people agreeing with you are the same people during game threads and in after game discussions crying conspiracy at every Packer defeat. Be it the 100 holding calls a game against Matthews that the other team gets away with, the obvious defensive holdings on your WR’s and blatant cheap shots that other teams get away with on your team…..
Every team’s fans have the right conspiracy theory for their own squads. I guarantee if you went back to old game threads, especially the last two against the Vikings, you’d get your fill of the Packer’s fans excuses, complaints and reasons why the NFL has it in against you.
It sounds like the Packers fans conspiracy theories get the week off since you got the win on Sunday. And as far as being so obviously outraged that a coach who’s team lost a really close, important game to a division rival actually dares to feel so frustrated and angry at what he feels were calls that cost him the game…..
What was he supposed to say? The guys frustrated that his team is losing. So he lashes out at the one thing he can’t control, the officiating. You know, just like Packer fans and every other team fans do after they lose? He knows his team is the reason they lost. He’s a coach. But instead of selling his team out on television he does the smart thing and deflects to something else. Every coach does it. Maybe not as vocally, but they do.
As an outsider my feeling is, take the win, celebrate it and that’s it. Your team is 4-3. Whether you’re leading your division or not, 4-3 isn’t much to get excited about.
This post comes off as slightly petty and something that surely WOULDN’T have been written after either Packer loss to the Vikings and it were the Packers coach up there blaming the refs.
Love your writing normally but you’re way off on this one.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 26, 2010 6:21 PM CDT reply actions
You're right about this.
This post comes off as slightly petty
Although I wouldn’t use “slightly” to refer to your post. I find nothing wrong with Brandon’s post.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Go back and look at fanposts on our site following losses to the Bears and Redskins
Do you see any topics about how we were screwed by the refs with bad calls? Go look at DN, if I’m not mistaken they’ve made at least six so far whining about a game that if you look at rationally, was poorly officiated on both sides of the ball.
Now have we ever complained about refs here? Of course we have, every fan does but for as much as we might criticize a bad call, we’re also quick to point out our own team’s failures. The guys over at DN honestly seem to think the NFL (And the rest of the world) have some sort of deep seeded hatred of their team and thus the NFL is on a constant vendetta against them.
But I guess that’s what 50 years of mediocrity does to people, they get a loser’s mentality and point fingers instead of thumbs when things go bad.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Don't confuse him with the facts.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Take it like a man..
McCarthy didn’t blast the officiating after they blew a helmet to helmet hit on his quarterback that led to his team losing a sudden death overtime game.
Frustrated? I’m sure McCarthy was as frustrated as Chilly, yet he took the high road and didn’t cry to the media. Show the tape to the league and leave it at that.
4-3 isn’t much to get excited about, but it’s better than 2-4 or 1-5.
Sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.
I don't remember McCarthy or us complaining about officiating much after the Cards game either
Sure, there was some upset at the missed facemask but I believe most of us were sensible enough to realize that if we hadn’t allowed Kurt Warner to gash our defense for what seemed like 700 yards and 6 TDs, we might not have been in that position to begin with.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Two questions.
One, have you read you sig line anytime recently? You should, because you’ve become the person you’re decrying in it.
Two, if you dislike us and our opinions so much, why do you come by here so often?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
We've asked him that before
He’ll give you some crap about liking to study people.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Which one?
About his sig or spending so much time here?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh no, not this guy again.
As for what you actually said, I just disagree. We had big calls go against us in the Bears and Redskins game. No one hear, for the most part (there’s always that guy who blames everything on the refs) were blaming the game on missed call. Many were unhappy with play-calling, Rodgers play, etc. If you go over and look at the Viking game thread, the entire last part of it is full with guys blaming the loss solely on the referees misses call. The reality is, the referees missed calls both ways. Since then, they’ve also created multiple fanposts blaming the referees in some way or another. They still seem to think that Goodell and really everyone else in the world is against them (which is silly).
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It seems to me
That Vikings fans do that after every loss. Gets rather annoying, but when you haven’t won the championship after 50 years, I guess you’ve exhausted all other reasons.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, actually it does. Seems like there’s a group of them who blame a loss on anything and everything but the Vikings. Maybe many of them really feel as though they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread since Gates does, and let’s all know that in all his threads. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever read work from a more arrogant man.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I have.
The person who’s more arrogant is themanthemyththelegend.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
He's not nearly as bad as Gates
And while I don’t necessarily agree with him on everything, he doesn’t seem like a bad guy.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I forgot about Chris’ “A Moment of Zen” post.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
HOW COULD YOU
That piece basically ripped all of SBNation and gave no credit whatsoever to the REST of the NFL.
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you making another best of thread?
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I am
but I have 2000+ comments to work with so that’s going to take a LONG time.
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks Charlie.
Even though you think that my interest in the human condition is “crap”.
Social Psychology and the studies of Philosophy and Theology are important in our understanding of each other.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 26, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, it's been a long, cold, windy day
Makes me wish my window wasn’t painted open by my idiotic landlord.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it ridiculously windy in the cities too? It’s been terrible down here in La Crosse. 30+ mph wind and rain is a horrible combination.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Yea, it's pretty bad here
I got hit with someone’s umbrella as I was walking to class.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Lol. My girlfriend’s umbrella flew right out of her hand today. Just crazy.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Please tell me I'm not about to get that.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The worst part is we're not even getting snow
Damn you Duluth.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Neither are we (Anchorage)
We’re getting rain, without the wind.
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
Been wondering where you're at. :)
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
We got some flurries last night in Fargo
Nothing stuck to the roads due to barely-above freezing temps and some splattery rain, still. Roads are gonna be fun after it freezes tonight, though.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I am going to absolutely disagree on Theology
worst class I ever took
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
by blackoutsox on Oct 26, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
"no one"??
There was plenty of complaining about the refs from Packer fans. There were a few conspiracy theories advanced. Hang out with football fans and you’re going to hear pissing and moaning about the refs.
The Sunday night game’s officiating was perhaps worse than usual. The Vikings’ performance was even worse. I can agree that the Packers caught some breaks. But what does that change?
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Oct 26, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Scott Green again, naturally....
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
Rec'd.
Oh no, not this guy again.
He’s practicing for when the Yikes! move out to his town. Haha.
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
I disagree
it’s time to come clean with the conspiracy. The entire world IS against the Vikings. There. Now that I’ve said it, I feel much better.
by gern blanston on Oct 27, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
You're making a huge mistake by conflating gamethreads
With posts written well after the game and repeated complaints by the head coach himself.
Gamethreads are written in the moment – they’re made up entirely of instant, visceral, knee-jerk reactions. Everyone on every SBNation blog ever complains about the refs in gamethreads.
But the posters on this site stop complaining about the refs by about an hour or so after the game. After that point, rational analysis takes over, and anyone who comes on trying to blame losses on the refs gets shouted down, every time. Contrast that with the Daily Norseman, where four of the top five stories right now are about the refs.
Let me repeat that, ‘cause it’s so freaking absurd: Four of the top five stories right now on Daily Norseman are about the refs. You will never, ever, ever see that on this site.
by Cheeseandcorn on Oct 26, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
And the author of three of them are Gates
Weird…
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
You'd think
someone would have transplanted Ed Hightower into the game.
THIS Ed Hightower: 
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
its fun to flag without reading
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
And yet I'M STILL HERE.
It’s cool when the people in charge actually think that debate and a difference of opinion is a good thing, isn’t it!
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 26, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
...
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey Vermont!
We’re both still here I see!
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 26, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Can we stop with the troll comments, I feel like we should be above that.
We should welcome different opinions. Things are boring when everyone just agrees with each other. Also, despite your indifference on his opinion, you have to admit, he carries himself in a respectable manner.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
He definitely carries himself in a respectable manner. The only problem is, that manner comes off as awfully arrogant and pompous at times. It’s hard to have a conversation with someone who talks to others as if he’s superior to them. It usually rubs people the wrong way, which is the case with manmythlegend in my opinion.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Pack, I'll give you an example....
Someone made a comment previously jabbing Viking fans with the fact that they’ve never won. Something like 50 years or whatever. This wasn’t today but it was in the other fanpost.
So my question was “Should a fan of a team who has won a grand total of 1 championship in the last 42 years REALLY be making that statement?”
Now, that was a question. An honest question. Now maybe it came off as pompous and superior because it’s a fact and the person reading it doesn’t want to have someone tell them the truth when they’re trying to be taunting and petty to someone else.
Now what part is rubbing the wrong way? The truth part? The fact that someone who doesn’t bleed Green and Gold has the audacity to call out a Packer fan for making a statement that leaves them wide open for my question?
Which is it?
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 26, 2010 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t see a problem with that. Taunting them with that isn’t right by any means.
I can understand how somebody bragging about 1 championship in 42 years could come off as somewhat silly but at the same time, for Packers fans that championship is always going to mean a great deal too us. The Super Bowl is a rare accomplishment.
I understand what you’re saying, I really do. My only thing is, what about your question is a fact? I think since you feel that way, you seem to think it’s the right way to think. Not everyone thinks that same way, and that’s ok too. So something that might seem silly to you might not seem silly to another because of the way they think.
Do you get what I’m saying? I find myself having a hard time getting my point across. I guess I just think you form an opinion on a topic such as the Favre fiasco, Carmelo situation, or the LeBron situation and then determine that your feelings regarding that topic are right. Maybe that’s why I feel you come off as arrogant at times. Though I very well could be misinterpreting how you’re conveying things too.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Problem
See the problem w/ what you presented is your cherry picking!!! Why is it conveniently the past 42 years, when in reality if you go 44 years that gives us 3 SB titles!!! Or if you go the past 50 years its more like 6 World championships! See now that is just plain truth… Not cherry picking as you were very convenient about doing!
And yes you are pompous and arrogant! I’ve been accused of those as well, but when I tell it I don’t cherry pick!!! Just state apples to apples facts!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
by Strohman on Oct 26, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
bingo
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
by blackoutsox on Oct 26, 2010 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Stroh,
I’m not “cherry picking”. (That’s a weird term to use. Are you trying to say that I’m using convienient facts to my argument?)
You may also want to scroll dow and read what was written by the person who runs this site.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 27, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I read Brandons post.
He was very forthright about his feelings and his thoughts! As opposed to you, who conveniently used a certain period to make it seem worse than is reality! Facts to facts, apples to apples…
Vikes 50 yrs of existence = 0 World championships!
Packers exact same 50 year period = 3 SB titles and at least 3 more World Championships!
Brandon did not conveniently adjust fact to suit his case… YOU DID!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
by Strohman on Oct 27, 2010 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Stroh what is your favorite number?
by Bush League All Star on Oct 27, 2010 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd love to attempt to explain what I meant by what I wrote but you wouldn't understand it.
You’re trying to be combative instead of conversational which makes you incapable of debate.
Just know, what I wrote actually does make sense.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 27, 2010 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I read every post on this thread.
And specifically every post of yours. I know exactly what you were stating. And yes, with cherry picking included you made sense. But you very conveniently adjusted (withheld) some years to try to strengthen your case! That is the epitome of Cherry picking!
If you want to be taken seriously present fact to facts… apples to apples! 50 years to 50 years, not 50 years to 42 years to fit you argument better!!!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
it is pompous and arrogant
and this is the second comment I read after you talked about how you psychologically ANALyze packer fans because they’re delusional or something
flagged
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
by blackoutsox on Oct 26, 2010 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you flag again? That's weird....
I’m still here.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 27, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions
yup
its a subtle trolling
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
by blackoutsox on Oct 26, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks Charlie.
Hopefully Packer fans don’t feel like my interest is solely on them. I do a lot of writing on Denver Stiffs in lieu of the Carmelo Anthony situation, on Fear the Sword when the LeBron thing was going on, and so forth….
I don’t call people names, I don’t demean. If I’m guilty of anything it’s that I can be as snarky and talk just as much trash as the person who wants to do it to me first.
I don’t actually get angry at all when it comes to being called a “Troll”. In fact, I consider it a badge of honor because it’s easier for someone who doesn’t have the ability to debate or any genuine thoughts or ideas on a subject to lash out at someone who thinks or feels different from them. Sometimes different opinions worded correctly with an opinion that is strong and factual is too much for people so they resort to the most basic human emotion: anger.
Much like the Salem Witch Trials, cry heretic at something that doesn’t fall into the line you’re most comfortable in. If it doesn’t act like me and I don’t understand it, get rid of it.
P.S. Sorry about the painted window. I hear it can get cold as hell in Wisconsin.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 26, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm actually in Minneapolis
But thanks anyways, I actually enjoy cold weather for the most part though, just not when it’s a wet and windy cold.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
My wife actually went to a conference in Wisconsin. Wherever the giant Harley-Davidson museum is.
She said the city was great. The architecture was stunning and the nightlife was surprisingly strong.
But she said it was cold as hell.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 26, 2010 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
My guess would be Milwaukee
I grew up in Minneapolis and I’ve only been to Wisconsin a handful of times to visit family in Green Bay and once in Madison to see some friends. Madison was fun but I wouldn’t use the words “Stunning architecture” to describe Green Bay or Madison so that probably leaves Milwaukee. I think they also have a statue of Henry Winkler there too.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 26, 2010 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, you would be talking about Milwaukee
In regards to the Harley museum.. And the architecture.. I have never realized it while around the city, but I guess outsiders do.. Transformers 3 filmed a little bit there because of the architecture..
You don't call people names or demean
But the people who disagree with you are much like the ones who ran the Salem Witch trials?
by Packer Logician on Oct 27, 2010 3:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Have you been over to DN lately?
Everything that comes out Chrissy Gates’ piehole comes as petty. He (and everyone who posts over there) have been complaining about officiating since January. There are multiple reasons the Vikings lost on Sunday night, and not all of them involved the officiating.
1. Moss pushing off on a deep ball late in the 1sthalf, nullifying a big gain into Packer territory.
2. After said push-off, Childress deciding to burn the rest of the clock despite still having two timeouts in his pocket. Keep in mind that the Vikings had a 3 point lead at this point.
3. Favre throwing THREE interceptions in the 2nd half, one of which set up a TD, another that was returned for a TD, and one that was picked deep in Packer territory. The officials didn’t make Brett throw those picks.
4. On 3rd and 15 from about the 30, Childress calling a play where Brett has to roll to his right on a bad ankle and then throw all the way across the field. That play didn’t work against the Saints last January, and it didn’t work Sunday night.
If Childress has a sack and tries to get into field goal range at the end of the half, the end of the game looks a lot different, doesn’t it?
If Childress bothers to challenge the Quarless TD, the end of the game looks a lot different, doesn’t it?
If Favre doesn’t throw three picks in the 2nd half, the end of the game looks a lot different, doesn’t it?
Those are all things that the Vikings had control of, and all things that they botched badly. They’re also things that you will NEVER see from Chris Gates, because it is much easier to bitch about the officiating.
Let's look at it this way
The Vikings could have gotten all those first half calls, and then been outscored 35-9 the second half.
No other possibilities will be accepted. Do you take a blowout in which the other team scores 5 TDs or a 28-24 loss?
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally,
I’d rather my team get their asses kicked. That way you can’t point to the 1/2 a dozen or so plays that turned the outcome. Typically, in those situations, if any one of those plays goes the other way, it’s a different outcome.
I'd much rather take a blowout.
I know a guy who’s an Iowa Hawkeyes/Minnesota Vikings fan. I can’t begin to imagine how tough this weekend must have been for him.
The Badgers went into Iowa City and won, and then the Packers knocked off the Vikings. The combined margin of victory in the two games was five points.
So if you think one close loss is bad, make it two, to arguably your biggest sports rivals, in a two-day span.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm an Iowa fan
and I about punched the windshield out of my truck on Saturday afternoon. I’d rather Wisconsin have just kicked Iowa’s ass.
A guy who I work with is like you
(Packers/Iowa Hawkeyes) and I didn’t want to gloat what happened Saturday over him. I have the feeling he reacted to it the same way you did—especially the timemout with 12 seconds left. Even as a Badgers fan, I can’t figure that one out.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone can figure it out.
In his press conference today, Ferentz said that he should have a “punt safe” on, and that Iowa should have spiked it.
Both statements fall under the “no shit” category.
Or this category.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
What did KF mean by "punt safe"?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what he calls the formation
when he might be expecting a fake. Only two guys were spying on Nortman on that play, everyone else had turned and was going downfield to block.
It’s not necessarily a formation designed to block a punt, but Nortman wouldn’t have come anywhere near the marker if it had been on.
Just as an example, when Clayborn blocked the punt at Penn State last season, that came on a “punt safe.”
Ah, I see.
Makes sense, too … why wouldn’t they have it on? I’m with you on that one. It also didn’t help that the two guys who were supposed to be shadowing Nortman assumed he would punt when he sold it and turned around.
By the time any of the Hawkeyes on the field knew the fake was on, Nortman was five yards past the first down marker.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Possibly hiking up Mount Marcy during the weekend of October 23-24. State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 26, 2010 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Nobody knows,
and in a way it would have been better if Kirk stuck to his guns today and insisted that it was the right call.
Bielema deserves credit for calling it, but that credit (from me, at least) is for calling it at that spot on the field. With six minutes to go and only one timeout, the chances of the Badgers getting the ball back were pretty slim.
by TarHeelHawk on Oct 26, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the nature of the series, though.
I did a pretty long comment yesterday or the day before about it…i think.
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Here we go!
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Toss in a new one!
Chris Gates + bulletin board material = flawless victory, right?
http://www.dailynorseman.com/2010/10/26/1776322/the-price-for-honesty-is-apparently-35000#comments
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 26, 2010 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
and....
we could compose and equally long list of the things that didn’t go our way as well.
by gern blanston on Oct 27, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
No!! A coach leads!!
he suppose to swallow his pride, accept the painful and move the heck on! BITCHIN and moaning will get him no where and doesn’t make a coach look good in his players eyes. TO let a couple calls annoy you to the point of calling the NFL head office to get some mamby pamby apology and then disclose it to the media(even though yr not supose to) is a self-serving, narcissistic, wussy-ass way of convincing yrself the game could have been won by yr team.
Childress’s aim in this is completely ludicrous! Sure, a few botched calls, say in yr press conferecne, “yeah, we didn’t like some of the calls out there tonight, namely…(blah, blah, blah)”
In truth, if those calls had been different, who’s to say the results wouldn’t ultimately end up the same. The SHianthoco instance was in the 2nd quarter, still alot of ball to be played and who knows what would have happened. Quarles catchwas inthe 1st or second quarter also. You can’t say, “oh, if V-guy gets the touchdown, vikes definitely win!” You don’t knkow how the outcome of that change affects the rest of the game.
AN analogy is if you say I should have put more salt in the dish I jsut cooked while cooking it. This may be true, but salt affects the way a mixture takes on other flavors and can compound the desire being sought. Put too much salt in in the beginning and the dish might never take on other important flavors that made it better in the end.
Ultimately, waht I’m saying is if Vishate gets that touchdown held up, who’s to say the vikes don’t change their game plan to runs more, and the pack knowing that their up stack the line and shut them down mercilessly in the 3rd quarter and then score 3-4 more times as the vikes go conservative. Or, the pack adjust their game plan and do some crazy flee-flicker thing or an end around and blow the game open.
I’m sorry, I kjnow yr probably not saying the vikes were gonna win with those two calls being changed(maybe interesting either way), but Childress’s comments are those of an unconsolable, downtrodden heathen looking for an answer. I don’t think he’s doing himself or his image of himself in his teams eyes any favors. This type of behaviour only demeans what is suppose to the stalwart, unsteadying, calm hand of the ship, THE HEAD COACH, not the “see I told you so” deckhand!
(notice the ship references viking fans)
Aren't we all outsiders?
It’s not like any of us work for the Vikings or Packers.
To everyone reading this comment: I don’t feel Themanthemyththelegend has done anything to warrant a warning or ban. I appreciate all the tags, just in case something bad does come up. There were a lot of bad comments after the 2009 Vikings games, don’t go looking for them because I deleted them, but his comments are not like those comments. In his case, we just don’t agree.
I don’t know about every Packer fans’ conspiracy theory. I was commenting on my writing, and my thoughts. I pointed out one recent instance when I did complain about the officials, but that was all I could think of.
As you pointed out, Childress is frustrated. He threw the refs under the bus. He didn’t throw his team under the bus, but he didn’t stand by his man Favre either. He indicated that Favre may now by “more receptive” as if Favre was some sort of loose cannon before. I know Favre doesn’t trust Childress.
I did want to just celebrate the win. It was a great win. But I can’t ignore all the quotes from Childress on how the refs handed the game to the Packers. The only one keeping this game in the news is the Vikings.
I meant an "outsider" in the sense that I don't carry a true fans feelings for either the Packers or the Vikings.
I do appreciate you “coming to my defense” though. It’s nice to know that I can come here, offer my opinions and feelings (even if they do come off as pompous or arrogant) and know that it’s welcomed as long as it’s kept civil. Like I’ve explained several times before, those facts along with the writing and content on this site are the reasons I frequent it.
And actually, I did get that most of what you wrote was you commenting on your writing and your thoughts and it is true…. I almost never read about YOU making any sort of conspiracy suggestions or blaming of the referees and not the players. But there were little pieces that were written as shots about someone complaining about everything and not placing the blame where it really lies (the players) and that’s where you open yourself up to a bit of criticism. Then to compound it are Packer fans who are in 100% agreement with you about not doing that sort of thing when you could read through any game thread or fanpost after a Packer loss and see them doing the very thing they claim not to do.
That’s where I claim hypocrisy.
As a Packer fan I certainly wouldn’t expect you to ignore and not comment about the comments Childress made. I don’t find any fault in it personally…. I’d rather a coach complain about the referees than throw specific players under the bus in a presser….
But I think you and I are in agreement that whatever weird relationship Childress and Favre have is now coming into the light of losing when it was easily covered up by last season’s winning. The guy should sit him and that’s that. He’s far more a detriment than a help.
Well written, Brandon.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Oct 27, 2010 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Like I said earlier, of course we've made comments about the refs
All fans do. The difference is a majority of it is in game threads as the game is still going on or shortly thereafter. As for fanposts, at least so far this season I only see one and that would be the “Are the referees biased” one. If you go to DN, you’d notice that four out of five posts since the game are specifically about the refs. You will not see that here.
As for Childress, I personally think it shows a lot about his character for him to complain about officiating in a game where several of his own mistakes helped cost them the game. Was it the refs fault he didn’t challenge the Quarless play? Was it the refs fault he didn’t go for anything before the end of the half? Was it the refs fault that he didn’t bench Favre after throwing three intereptions in a quarter? I saw some of his comments, he even complained about the late game facemask call on Loadholt where he clearly twisted Matthews facemask.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 27, 2010 6:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Fans aren't stupid.They complain because they see certain officiating crews consistently affecting the scoring and outcomes of games...
Scott Green and his crew usually have close, high scoring games. They call fewer penalties than the average crew. And have more controversial calls. And curious results…
Last year, the point totals in his games were 48.1 per game (3rd highest) and favorites won 69% as a won-loss record while favorites against the spread only won 38% of the time in his games. This was way below the overall average of 49% for the year for all refs.
Every time this crew does a game you get what you saw Sunday night…
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose : it's how drunk you get.
LOVE the title...heheheh
You praised the ST for a lack of penalties. I’ll go one further. You know who’s playing really well this year?
Jarrett Bush.
That’s right, I said it. He was right down there on most coverage units in great position to either make tackles or set up other guys to do so. He hasn’t had a single penalty this year (that I saw anyway). He’s not clipping or holding or going offsides. It’s weird. …great. But weird.
Hey, y’know, credit where credit is due. I am glad they didn’t cut Jarrett Bush. And please stand aside while I now eat my hat.
I’ve noticed this too. Makes me sad. Something tells me this good play won’t be a recurring theme, yet he’ll probably be kept over others who will be cut to make room for Harris and Bigby. Who knows though, maybe he’ll continue to play well on special teams.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I've been somewhat impressed
by the play of Charlie Peprah as well. He’s been beat a few times but in my not particularly scholarly opinion I think he’s been doing a good job.
by Archibaldcrane on Oct 26, 2010 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we are really seeing the results of a Coordinator who can coach up a defense which even though they have not been impenetrable Capers has the defense making stops unlike a certain Bob Sander.
Don’t even mention Sander. It was painful to watch our defense under him. I mean seriously, how was that guy a defensive coordinator in the NFL? I seriously think I could call defensive plays better than him. After all, all he ever did was rush four and have the corner’s play bump n’ run every play.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Same. I think he gets ripped on too much because of those two gaffes against the Redskins. He always seems like he’s in the right place at the right time.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
better utilization
Bush was forced beyond his abilities last year due to injury. I can’t fault his awful CB/DB performance last year. He shouldn’t have been put in that position in the first place.
I did complain about Bush’s special teams penalties last year. I just didn’t feel that level of performance warranted $1M/yr. I too will eat some crow and say I thought he’s played pretty well this year.
As long as I’m chewing, I may as well also suggest that Brandon Jackson has gotten better each week – and I didn’t think that was possible.
by gern blanston on Oct 27, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
In any close game
by that, I mean less than 7 pts., you can always go back and pick out a few critical plays(a dropped pass) or a few bad/missed calls that probably would have changed the outcome. Lord knows we’re had our share. Those things all tend to even out over time. The refs are human and even when people see the replays from 1,000 different angles, many will STILL disagree about any given play. Quarless’s TD was NOT a TD. He was bobbling the ball as he was going out of bounds. You must continue to have control after you go out. But, Chilly didn’t contest it, so live with it. Shincoe’s catch was NOT a catch, it hit the ground ‘coz he didn’t get his hands under the ball. We’re 4-3, I’ll take it. Could easily have been 7-0 but we made enuf mistakes in 3 games that we ended up losing those.
My thing with the Quarless catch though, is he did have possession while going out of bounds. It was when he hit the ground that he bobbled it but after that, he actually did retain possession of it. Too me, that seems like it should count as a catch. But maybe not haha. I honestly have no idea with the current rule in place.
by packallday555 on Oct 26, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Good question
As long as his feet are in bounds and the player retains possession of the ball it is usually deemed a catch. As for bobbling after a catch, that is a definite gray area. If he ultimately ends up with the ball, than it is a catch, but if he ultimately ends up with the ball after going out of bounds via his momentum, than, well, WTF!
I think I’ll call the league office and inquire of this topic, then I’ll purposely let the media know about my findings even when the league office discloses the answer to me in confidence!
ANyways,
at least Quarles wasnt’ like that San Diego Chargers rookie who thought he was still in college. What a moron!!!
It's not a catch
You must maintain control throughout the process of going to the ground. It appeared he initially he made a clean grab, but throughout the process of going to the ground he bobbled it. Since he didn’t regain complete possession until he was touching out of bounds, it would be considered an out of bounds (and therefore non-)catch.
It’s actually similar to the Shiancoe catch – looked clean at the start, slipped in his hands while it was touching the ground (like Quarless’s slipped while he was touching out of bounds) – no catch.
by Archibaldcrane on Oct 27, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I want to find a video on NFL.com with a person catching the ball the exact same way Shiancoe did.
It wasn’t a TD, but it was almost the exact catch. The official said essentially that since the tip of the ball (not the side of the ball) hit the ground that it aided him in catching the ball. Now if the flatter side of the ball made contact, I am sure, without any argument from me, that it would have been ruled a catch and subsequent touchdown.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 27, 2010 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get the rule
Jennings in Chicago last year had a TD taken off the books. He’s got it clearly under control. He’s 2 or 3 steps out of the end zone and the defender knocks the ball out of his hands. I mean if all you have to do is break the plane on a running play and can then fumble the ball, why doesn’t two feet down (or whatever the knee, elbow, waist combination is) with possession mean TD? Who cares what happens next?
by gern blanston on Oct 27, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Great article...
Everyone should read this, but it won’t stop the bellyaching over officiating.
Loved the article
Although it did kick off a bunch of whining about poor officiating. Which isn’t very fun to read.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the refs losing another 6-8 games for the Vikes this season.
Go Refs!
by AmericasRealTeam on Oct 26, 2010 11:36 PM CDT reply actions
Great article. This is truly pathetic on the part of the Vikings and their classless fans. I was quite pleased to see the fine leveled against Childress today by the NFL. Though I must say, it was far too small. He should have been fined MUCH more!
"Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect."
Vince Lombardi
As opposed to all of the class displayed in this thread.
Seriously, you guys are no different and no better. Your team has just celebrated a huge win, with more crucial tests ahead, and most of your energy here is spent bashing Viking fans for the opinions of a vocal minority.
And why do you even visit DN after such a crucial loss? I’ll tell you why, because you know that you will find expressions of anger/disappointment. Then you come back here and point to that behavior as a reason to feel like you’re better?! Well you’re not, and those actions themselves are far more despicable than a disappointed fan crying about bad officiating.
I have found many of Gates’ opinions to be downright classless and repugnant over the past several months, and I have expressed my opinions openly on DN. Change a few names/teams/pronouns around and Chris could sign his name to this post and many of the comments would fit in just as well.
One other observation here that I have also seen at DN… you guys sure do have your share of self-righteous hypocrites.
I'll go out and say it right now
We’re much better. That’s not to say DN is all bad, there are a lot of good posters like yourself, Bjorno, puddenhead, PJ, Arizona but for the most part, the place is just a giant circle jerk of self pity and arrogance led by Gates. I understand that it was a tough loss to a rival and that makes one bitter but for ****’s sake, go back and watch the game without the purple tinted glasses and you’ll clearly see several bad calls on both sides of the ball.
Also, we get it, Shiancoe’s catch should’ve been a TD but if you honestly think that a second quarter TD call would impact the end result of the game you’re clearly oblivious to reality. That game could’ve played out several ways after that play be it a catch or not. This wasn’t at the end of the game or anything, it was the second quarter. And speaking of bad calls at the end of the game, what about the initial Harvin catch ruling when the ref was five feet away and appeared to be looking at his feet? So were the refs trying to screw you there too when they suddenly thought they were officiating a college game?
But it’s fine, they’re obviously still the best team in the league and the only thing in the way of a 19-0 record is the refs. You guys just keep letting that thought console you as you watch your team miss the playoffs while their window slowly comes to a close.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 27, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, you're not better, and thinking that you are is uglier than the behaviors you criticize.
We’re all human and Packer fans are no less capable and inclined to show their ass than Viking fans. The difference is that we have a much larger number of those people on DN. Some of these people also have a difficult time maintaining rational dialogue with other Viking fans. Personally, I am generally impressed and appreciate it when other fans recognize and defend the fact that the lowest behavior in any given group does not represent the entire group. I feel quite differently toward the opposite sentiments.
Unfortunately, Gates’ recent ravings seem to have possibly encouraged an influx of less than admirable displays. Otherwise, the intense media circus surrounding our team this year has definitely encouraged a proliferation of new posters. Evidence – a poll posted yesterday asking whether Favre or TJ should start our next game already has over 2200 responses. More traffic means more assholes, and if that’s all that you care to see then you are not looking very hard.
For the record, I enjoyed the fact that the officials let the players play for the most part… I like a more physical game. I agree good and bad calls went both ways and that they ultimately did not decide the outcome. That being said, I do think that the NFL needs to figure out how to adequately train their officials because the fact that we all get screwed by their mistakes is not a good thing. Otherwise, I think that the gift-wrapped 14 points in the 3rd quarter had the most significant effect on the final score.
A vocal minority?
Chrissy Gates is the pied piper over there, and the posts will follow the tone of what he writes. He is in charge of the content, and never skips on a chance to let everyone know. For three days now, he has whining about the officiating. Last night, 4 of the 5 articles on the front page of DN were about the officiating.
I did see where Ted (you know, the talented one) wrote about the Vikings own mistakes, and how they had an outcome on the game, but Ted also buried most of those comments under the jump.
And posts on DN are clearly the accurate reflection of the Vikings entire fanbase...
Yes, obviously a vocal minority… or do you actually believe that most Viking fans have posted complaints about the officiating on DN?
No, but I do believe
that a board moderator is responsible for the tenor of the discussion on that board. Chris Gates likes to complain…..about everything…..constantly. The comments reflect that.
I’ve yet to see Gates write anything that acknowledges that the Vikings had something to do with them losing the game Sunday night.
Despite the tenor that you perceive from Gates,
and which I agree is openly present on the site, there are still many calm reasonable people discussing the Vikings and football on DN. Personally, at this point many of Gates’ opinions are about as meaningful as a gnat fart to me. Please don’t hold his lack of perspective, maturity and insight against all of us.
Consider this, switch the team uniforms Sunday night… by Monday morning do you really think that you wouldn’t have a single fan-post headlining the officiating? Now consider volume of traffic… thousands of people… and it only takes 4 to make 4 posts. Still, if you actually read into the open threads you will not have to go far to encounter some reason and perspective, although you might have to scroll past a pissing contest or two…
Seeing as we've already had two games...
where one could make the case that bad officiating had an effect on the outcome and there aren’t four or five posts following them complaining about it, I’m gonna disagree. I know that Gates and his followers aren’t an accurate representation of all Vikings fans. I’ve said already that there are quite a few good ones but from my perspective, it seems the bad far outweighs the good or are at least more vocal. Like several other posters here, I live in Minnesota and most of my friends are Viking fans. I’ve met several Viking fans while at games and I can honestly say 95% of my interactions have been positive.
So sorry, if you thought I was attacking all fans and lumping them in with that cesspool of fan ignorance/homerism also known as “The Daily Norseman”.
by Charlie Kelly on Oct 28, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Well…I live in MN and almost every friend of mine is a Viking fan. I’ve had almost every one of them bring up referee calls during this week so far so I would say its not the vocal minority.
Raising the subject is one thing,
concluding that the officiating actually determined the outcome is another. If they had not reversed Shank’s catch and they had reversed Quarles’ we still had over a half to play. As a Vike fan I would have much rather seen it play out that way, but at that point maybe our QB giftwrap’s 21 instead of 14… no telling.
Whoa!
This is truly pathetic on the part of the Vikings and their classless fans
You cannot lump all Vikings fans into the “classless” category, or any team’s fans into that category. There are a lot of very bitter people over on DN right now, and saying something over there right now would just touch off a powder keg of raw emotion that would very likely get you banned and just trigger more pointless rage from already embittered people (R4F and CG).
I have to seriously wonder how someone like Grime, Purple Jesus or Ted Glover would read that statement. JShore too. Don’t alienate the good Viking fans who come over here. For every loudmouth on DN, there has to be one or more people elsewhere on SBNation who realize that CG is not doing anything besides appealing to raw emotion and simple rage, and that’s not the right way to run a blog in the wake of a game like this.
Soon coming to SBNation: The Peyton's Liberation Army?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 27, 2010 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions
What about Rodger's second interception?
Greg Jennings was clearly held by Walker on the play.
As a vikings fan
I 100% agree. When it does get overturned, your team HAS to make plays to get another TD. We Didn’t make the plays. Its not the ref’s fault, its our own fault. Can’t be sour over refs, they are only human too. I won’t get into great detail since my break at work is just about done.
by hickenizgriz on Oct 27, 2010 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow...
I had been drinking, and I apologize to the classy Vikings fans that I have offended. However, there were certainly a lot of Vikings fans acting without class after that game. This is a fact, period! Was it ALL of them? Of course not. To those people who showered the Packers, and the league with vitriol, you know who YOU ARE! Your actions were reprehensible, and truly demonstrated an affinity for poor sportsmanship. I mean look, this IS JUST A GAME! Learn that and live by it! If our roles as fans were reversed, I would have composed myself much better! That too is a fact! (-;
"Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect."
Vince Lombardi
Many of us have composed ourselves appropriately.
It’s just frustrating that because they make so much noise the crybabies attract the attention. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending that behavior, I’m just pointing out that it’s not all or even most Viking fans.
I prefer getting Stroh'd!!!
to getting R4F’d………..
Notice what I did there?
Trail Blazers atop the Northwest at 2-0!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 28, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
My first post on DN
would likely teach the proper use of ellipses.
Then I’d get banned instantly.
Trail Blazers atop the Northwest at 2-0!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 28, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Beating up on the Pacers
Hey! Don’t crimp the Bucks’ style!
Trail Blazers atop the Northwest at 2-0!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 28, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
oooh don’t mess with the ellipse!
…most of them wouldn’t even know what that was (just guessing). :-)
I confess, I use ellipses with wreckless abandon...
They are like my personal written “verbal pause”… or I drop em when as a “fill-in-the-blank”… or just use them as “more to come”.. “what’s next”, “is that all”…
Damn, how do I setup a macro key?
That's actually a good use of them.
On the other hand, using them like this……………… hurts my eyes and considerably increases my desire to punch the person who did that.
Ouch! Ow!
Trail Blazers atop the Northwest at 2-0!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 29, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
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