Who Will Be The Last Packer Standing? Jones to I.R., Claim Green Off Waivers
by Brandon on Oct 27, 2010 5:15 PM CDT
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintThis morning I questioned why the Green Bay Packers had signed so many linebackers this week, and the answer is that LB Brad Jones has been placed on I.R. and is out for the season. As Tom Silverstein reports, he injured his shoulder during training camp and aggravated it against the Vikings. Mike McCarthy hadn't mentioned him during his post-game press conference, but he did sneak in that Jones had a shoulder strain on Monday. He's played through it so far this season so couldn't he get back on the field after a week or two of rest? The Packers didn't think so, but maybe Jones thought differently because he didn't want to talk about it to reporters.
This brings the total up to five starters on I.R. LB Frank Zombo will replace Jones as the starting outside linebacker. While the undrafted free agent looked great this preseason, and recorded a sack in the opener against the Eagles, and another in his 1st career start against the Bears, he's done very little since and had lost his starting job. Pro Football Focus confirms that he hasn't played well this season. It's important to remember that he's a rookie, he did play great during the preseason, and it's reasonable to expect him to get better as the season goes on.
Journeyman NT Howard Green was claimed off waivers from the Jets. He's recorded stats for five different NFL teams, and was signed but never played for the Redskins earlier this year. This marks the second time he's been released by the Jets this season. At 6'2", 340 lbs., he provides a wide body and not much else, but that might be exactly what the Packers need. If DE Ryan Pickett remains out with his bad ankle, there's nobody else on the roster to spell NT B.J. Raji against the run-first Jets next Sunday. It's very likely Green will sub for Raji and replace OL T.J. Lang on the defensive line in short yardage situations.
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Comments
Why, God? Why?
It’s just getting to be too much… I really feel for the guys on the team. This amount of injuries can absolutely decimate morale (not to mention chances to win). I hope they can hang in there emotionally.
If the healthy guys start hanging their heads, THAT is when our season is in real trouble.
by Shamalamadingdong on Oct 27, 2010 6:31 PM CDT reply actions
But
If we can continue to play above .500 that should really give confidence to the team moving forward. Injuries they can deal with, but injuries and losing is much more demoralizing.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 27, 2010 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
Otherwise I’d go with my Sumo Wrestler theory. But always happy to have a guy with a copy of the other team’s playbook on our bench.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 27, 2010 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah this is an undervalued reasoning behind this acquisition…we are going to need every tip we can get for this game. I’d love nothing more than to see Rex Ryan lose against us…and I’d really like to see us pass it up on Revis. Gonna be a TOUGH game for Jennings though.
Disagree
I think its a completely OVER-value reason why!!! You don’t think the Packers don’t know the opponents schemes? You think the Packers don’t know the opponents strengths and weaknesses? Give the packers coaches and scout some credit for being able to do their job! There is very little that Green can tell them that they don’t already know! Picking up an opponents ex-player doesn’t help much, if at all… Otherwise teams would be doing it before every opponent they face! Packers would drop Green after this week and pick up somebody that was on the next opponents team to get info! But that doesn’t happen does it? No, because their isn’t much that the player can really provide that the Packers don’t know from watching film. Which they already started on Sunday nite!
Will they talk to him? Of course… But do they expect to get anything important that will help them from him? Hell No! If getting info was so important they would do it EVERY week, but that doesn’t happen! So don’t pin your hopes on Green being able to help the Packers against the Jets!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
No one is pinning their hopes on the Packers winning because of Green
But do you honestly think that someone who was playing for another team and released doesn’t know more about his former team’s schemes than the coaching staff of a different team? Especially when you’re talking about being in different conferences where you only see that particular team once every four years?
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Yes
I think the coaches know a hell alot more about the schemes of the other team than a player does! Players know plays… Coaches know schemes! Just cuz they don’t play that particular scheme means little, concepts of the schemes mean more… And its the coaches job to know not just the schemes they teach, but the schemes of all the defenses being used in the league since they will have to face them all every year anyway!
PLayers dont know the concepts of schemes, they just know the plays… Their responsibility. Its the Coaches job to know the schemes of every team conceptually!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Ah yes, the elusive 31-game season
And its the coaches job to know not just the schemes they teach, but the schemes of all the defenses being used in the league since they will have to face them all every year anyway!
If we were signing a guy from a divisional team, or maybe even an NFC team, I might give you that he wouldn’t contribute much to our coaches knowledge of the opposing team’s defense. But for an unfamiliar AFC team, I think he will bring some insight into how they play defense.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
How many teams run the WCO?
How many ruin 34 schemes vs 43 schemes? Do you think the coaches from watching tape don’t know what the opponent is trying to accomplish vs either? Capers spent most of his coaching career in the AFC he knows those teams as well as they know themselves. ANd it not like you have to know every little detail to know what they are trying to do vs certain formations! Coaches know that stuff far more than most players! Players play.. Coaches coach.. Not just what they want to do but what they want to do vs any allignment or formation!
Can Green help? Maybe a little, but not nearly enough to make it worth bringing in a player from that team each week!!! Coaches already know what teams run what schemes and they know the concepts of those schemes FAR more than a player does!
Look at it this way… If it helped so much why wouldn’t a team keep the 53rd player on the roster open so they can keep rotating in the next opponents cast off to help them? Its cuz it doesn’t help much, If at all…
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Audibles and on field lingo
he should know a lot of terminology that the players use on the field to make adjustments and changes and such. Things that aren’t necessarily picked up on game film. I mean if he’s able to let us know that Sanchez saying “insert random word” means he’s switching from a quick out to a run and it helps us get a stop on 3rd and short… I’m all for it
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 28, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
And you think the Packers are going to listen to the defensive calls before the snap?!
The players already have to listen to the audible of their team, much less try to listen to the audibles of the opponents at the same time! If he’s on the field Green MIGHT recognize one or two, but Green is unlikely to be on the field! Coaches already know the tendencies of the opponent as far as what audible they use frequently vs certain formations! The coaches study all of that in preparation and the offensive and defensive meetings!
Like I said it the coaches job to know this stuff ahead of time before they meet w/ the player to tell them what to expect!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Lol I think you’re going a little over the top here. He may know how they blitz out of certain formations and he probably knows a lot of their terminology. Granted, they’ll probably change lingo but he can still offer a little insight.
by packallday555 on Oct 28, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe, but
not enough to make a game deciding difference.
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
Agreed. I just think he could be of some help.
by packallday555 on Oct 28, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Info
Thats the kind of info that is gathered by the quality control assts… They do it for a 3-4 game stetch from the most recent games. They build that data as far as fomations and what plays are run. The quality contol coaches then process that info using stats to show what teams do from what formations! The DC and OC use that info to formulate a game plan on how to attack those formations! They get ALL of this on their own, and its ALOT more than a former player can give them!!!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Another thing
Green not only knows the other team’s defensive playbook, but he’s almost positively gleaned a few things from practice about the Jets offense. He’s probably heard Rex Ryan and Brian Schottenheimer yell a few things at the offense that it would help us to know. Things that no amount of game film could ever teach the Packers scouts and coaches. Say Sanchez has a tell, or if Shonn Greene always looks down before a pass play and up before a run, just as hypothetical examples.
The reason teams don’t do it all the time is because, while not illegal, to quote Royal Tenenbaum, “It’s frowned upon”. But you don’t think the Vikings picked up Michael Montgomery in part because of what he can tell them about us? Of course, it turns out that he was a double agent!
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 28, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Players
Now the Packers players on the other hand should ask a few questions to gain some info about the OL of the Jets. Raji might be able to gain a little tip about how to determine run or pass pre-snap. But then any good player breaking down film should be able to gain some ot that info, if there is any. Thats where it could help…
Frowne upon? In a league where the saying is. If you aint cheatin you aint tryin? Don’t think so…
You've been Stroh'd!!!
I think the main reason for the aquisition
is that the guy is a 350 lb run stuffer, Pickett and Jenkins are hurt and if Raji keeps playing 60 snaps a game he’ll be on the shelf soon too. Also, 350 lbs is a lot better than 285(Wynn) on the DL in the 34 especially with the #1 rush o in the nfl coming up. I actually think if, God forbid, Jenkins and/or Pickett can’t go Green will see a decent ammount of snaps Sunday.
If you don't know the cadence of GO PACK GO your opinion doesn't matter
--John Jurkovic
by sidtheelf on Oct 28, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is there no god!!!
Really! Really! Can it be any worse for the Pack!
Is this really happenning? Another guy out, gone, lost for the rest of the year. What have the packers done to deserve such ill-fated luck!
I am beside myself. I think it’d be interesting to see if any one can remember a year where we lost so many guys by only the 7th-8th week of the season.
Real shame also, that our bye week coming up in a week or two will not even help these IR guys. Hopefully Harris and Bigby come back soon.
I think this would help to offset the morale taking a dip due to Jones being lost.
Good point about the morale, Shamalamadingdong. You can only take losing so many of yr teammates before it psychologically gets to you.
Yeah, I actually had that happen to my high school team way back when. Had to bring up some players from JV. Then, of course, I accidentally took one of them out during practice…
by Shamalamadingdong on Oct 27, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I think maybe it did in 2005.
Can it be any worse for the Pack!
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
OMG this is getting ridiculous! How many more player are we gonna lose this season. We seriously need Harris, Bigby, Jenkins, n Pickett back ASAP to help pick up the slack in the secondary n d-line, n lets just hope that AJ, Bishop, and Zombo can stay healthy.
Losing jones for the year, it’s that bad. I know we are all stick of seeing a new player(s) be put on IR, but jones has either been injuried or has below average, at best. Maybe, I’m being a harsh because it’s possible he never fully healed from the injury during training camp. I thought we should have put in a claim to pick up Antwan barnes when he was cut by Philly early this month. He would have been a situational pass rusher. He had 2 sacks and multiple pressures on Tom Brady this pass weekend.
by PACK3RS on Oct 27, 2010 11:51 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He’s a LOT better than anything we have behind him or on waivers so yeah this is a huge blow. Hell he was a starter for us last year.
I don't think he's alot better than Zombo!
Jones knows the scheme more and is more assignment sure, but Zombo is a better playmaker! The advantages offset each other… Zombo will be fine in Jones place and next year given the experience gained will be better! Next year Zombo will move ahead of Jones on the depth chart, IMO!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
How many plays has Zombo made in the regular season this year?
I can only recall one, the sack against Philly (I think it was Philly). I’d say Zombo and Jones are fairly even on “playmaker” status. I’m much more concerned about consistency from the other OLB position than playmaking ability.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Zombo has made as many plays as Jones in less playing time! I would say that makes him more of a playmaker! How many fumbles did Jones cause or recover last year in 9 games as a starter? How many INT’s did he have in 9 games last year? For that matter, how many passes defensed did Jones have last year (coverage is supposed to be his strength)?
Jones in 9 games had no production at all in any of them!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Alright, let's flip this around:
How many fumbles has Zombo caused? 0
How many INTs does Zombo have? 0
How many passes defensed does Zombo have? 0
How many tackles does Zombo have? 14 (for career: 14 in 7 games)
How many sacks does Zombo have in his career? 2.0 in 7 games
Conversely:
How many fumbles has Jones caused? 0
How many INTs does Jone have? 0
How many passes defensed does Jones have? 1
How many tackles does Jones have? 27 (for career: 60 in 20 games)
How many sacks does Jones have? 4.0 in 20 games
So remind me again how Zombo is a playmaker?
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Note, I'm not saying that Jones is a playmaker
Just that I don’t see a very big difference between him and Zombo.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of difference too me either. I think Jones is more assignment sure (naturally) but Zombo seems like a better pass rusher too me. It’ll be nice to hopefully see Zombo take the majority of the snaps. I was getting really sick of seeing he and Jones rotate. How is either of them supposed to develop a flow for the game doing that? Let alone get to know how the opposing tackle is playing them.
by packallday555 on Oct 28, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Zonbo has been a bit player in the majority of the games this season!
He’s been a starter in 2? I think… Jones has played the vast majority of the snaps. So by sheer numbers there is little difference! And Jones played LB his entire college career! He should know when and where he has opportunities to make plays! Yet he NEVER made any!
Zombo played DE in college and has alot to learn about playing standing up! Remind me which made the most plays in the preseason! Zombo did… Zombo has a ton to learn about playing LB whereas Jones was already should know. Give Zombo a half season to start and his numbers will be much better… And Zombo will make them while learning to play LB, something that Jones didn’t have to learn!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Remind me what stringers Zombo was playing against in the preseason
Oh yeah, 2nd and 3rd stringers. And Jones must have made plays last year to rack up 4 sacks while only starting half the season.
Again, I’m not claiming that Jones is the answer at OLB, but before you go anointing Zombo as a “playmaker” I’d like to see him, you know, make plays. If he comes out and shows that he can be a difference maker you can crow about how you said he would be, but from where I’m sitting he’s a guy that can make plays against backups and hasn’t shown he can do it against NFL-caliber starters yet.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Coverage sacks!
Its not like he flat beat the OL on those 4 sacks… I also understand that Zombo was playing against the 2nd or 3rd sting sometimes… But he DID sack Peyton Mannings against their No 1 unit! And it wasn’t a covereage sack either, like all but one of Jones sacks last year!
Zombo also and created turnovers in the preseason! Something Jones didn’t do.. Zombo just has a knack of being around the plays and involved in plays that make a difference! Jones is mostly just on the field, but isn’t involved when the play is decided!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Also
Who do you think was playing with more of an edge in the Colts’ preseason game: an undrafted rookie LB trying to make a team or an established O-Line starter? I’m not suggesting the Colts’ lineman just let Zombo go right by, but I’d guess that Zombo’s motor was significantly higher than whatever lineman he faced on that particular play.
Also, you overstate Zombo’s case. He created A turnover this preseason, just like Jones create A turnover his rookie preseason. Still not seeing much difference.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
I realize I'm sounding very down on Zombo
which I’m not. I was pretty happy that he made the team after the preseason. I’m hoping he’s able to help us defend the run better and give us a better rush off the edge opposite Clay. I just think it’s awfully premature to label him a “playmaker”.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Tell Manning that!
I’m sure he appreciated his OL taking the play off so he could get hit by Zombo!!! LOL
You've been Stroh'd!!!
I'm not saying the OL took a play off
I’m saying that Zombo had something to prove, so he may have had more of an edge for the game.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Granted
It was preseason when Zombo made plays. Can’t deny that… the thing that I noticed w/ Zombo that I never got from Jones is that he seems to be around when the play is determined. He just seems to be involved when and where the play is decided. Thats not something that can be taught, IMO. Mostly, or the best description of that is instincts. Maybe other factors too, but that seems to be the best way to describe it. Zombo is involved when and where plays are decided and Jones is not.
I seem to remember Zombo getting a sack or 2 in the regular season games he starte though. Haven’t checked stats.
You've been Stroh'd!!!
He does have two sacks on the season
which is more than I thought. I do hope you’re right about him, I’d really like to see the guy succeed.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Whatever you may think of Jones
he greatly helped cause a pick 6 from Favre and injured the diva on the same play. Personally, I’ll love him forever for that 1 play. Having said that, I think the drop-off from Jones to Zombo will be minimal.
If you don't know the cadence of GO PACK GO your opinion doesn't matter
--John Jurkovic
He injured Favre
on the pick by Hawk, not on the pick by Bishop.
Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"
Ah right you are
I stand corrected.
If you don't know the cadence of GO PACK GO your opinion doesn't matter
--John Jurkovic
I was going to mention that in fairness to Jones
But my post was already alot longer than I wanted. I like Jones. Hope he recovers quickly and can play at a high level. But really he never has played at a high level… Just been on the field for the most part. Think he would be a great backup OLB and ST player, but is a low level starter, IMO.
You've been Stroh'd!!!
jones has caused an INT though
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
oh come on dude. Zombo is very limited. He’s basically a pass rusher and that is it. He’s a full year behind Jones in his development and started as raw or more raw than Jones was. I don’t doubt Zombo will be ahead of Jones next year but to say he’s not a step down now is just…negligent.
step down
Well there is a reason Jones was the starter. Zombo is a step down… RIght Now. Give him the rest of the season to gain experience and I think he will be better than Jones. Better pass rusher, will be better vs the run too… Jones will always be better in coverage, no way around that. He’s been doing it his entire football career. Zombo never has played in coverage before!
Biggest think to me, is that Zombo just seems to always be around when and where the play is decided! He’s always in the action. Jones seems to be mostly invisible on the field!
Thanks to him for not being invisible when he got pressure on and injured favre though!!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
From
the post game recap thread:
by TrevorR on Oct 25, 2010 9:14 AM CDT
More thoughts… James Jones was brilliant! Props to Stroh for being his biggest cheerleader all year, I had hopes he could play like that but I wasn’t sold based on what I had seen. He looked fabulous though.
FWIW, I also was high on Jones. Pretty much have been since he was drafted, and didn’t need to be sold on him by Strohman!
I have long understood that he is the heir to DD’s specific position and have said so since before he surpassed Jordy as the official number three WR.
That said, I will not attempt to usurp Strohman!’s presidency of his fan club. LMAO.
by Goldenarmadillo4 on Oct 25, 2010 1:13 PM CDT
I need to see James Jones hold onto the ball on a Monday night game. But yes, big props to Stroh for his adamant faith in people.
by Curly Lambeau on Oct 25, 2010 12:57 PM CDT
Yeah, props to Stroh too for defending Bulaga playing RT.
Man, do I hate to admit the guy’s right, but you gotta’ hand it to him. He’s a Richard, but he knows his football.
When I read those comments, I considered pointing out to everybody at the time, in light of Jones’ heroics, that Stroh hasn’t been kind to him.
Because I knew this argument was coming. lol.
I also chimed in at the time with my own two cents worth, which may not have been seen by too many people, since it may have been the last comment posted on that thread. haha.
He’s been right about most things since I first encountered him on the Press-Gazette forums several years ago.
And, I’ve never had any problem, really, with people who are not afraid to be blunt with the truth.
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
by NorthStarr on Oct 29, 2010 4:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He’s also been wrong on things too…though I haven’t really seen him come out and acknowledge it yet. I am not afraid to admit when someone it right…
The argument on James Jones wasn’t really if the potential was there cause I’ve LOVED jones since he first came on the scene in his rookie year. The argument was if he’s had adaquate opportunity to show his worth and if he’s proven he can step up when more time comes his way. Stroh was saying that until Driver steps down and Jones becomes the #2 guy we won’t see his full potential and my argument was that he hasn’t even secured the #3 job so I was getting a little skeptical. I think Jones showed a big splash last week…I need to see more of it to truely settle in that he could be a great #2 but he earned some big kudos and Stroh looked pretty good so I gave him his props.
I think a lot of people in here are pretty smart and bring a lot to the conversation. Some of us can present it better than others, some of us know more than others…we can all learn a little bit from each other too.
He did say MOST times...
I’ll freely admit I’m not always right. And have admitted on occasion when I was wrong. Luckily for me that hasn’t been too often!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Clarification
When I wrote
When I read those comments, I considered pointing out to everybody at the time, in light of Jones’ heroics, that Stroh hasn’t been kind to him.
Because I knew this argument was coming.
I was talking about Brad, not James; The argument I “knew was coming” was, of course, Jones vs. The Zomboni.
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
And, regarding James, my point has been that
he is DD’s eventual replacement as a starter, regardless of whether or not he comes in as the third WR on 3-WR plays.
Meaning, he is destined to be a starter long before Nelson, who may never be a starter, until/unless he does it somewhere else!
IMO, Jones is going to replace Driver sooner than later; possibly/probably as early as the next season played (be it 2011, or beyond); maybe even towards the end of this season.
Props to TT, again.
WRs rarely make a big splash as rookies; the time it takes for them to fully blossom is normally about three or four years.
Jones, coincidentally or not, was drafted three years ago, and is only now beginning to realize his potential (normal) just at the right time, because, like it or not, it is now time for serious consideration of replacing DD as the starter!
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
Blunt w/ the truth...
I like that description. I admit at times I lack the ettiquette to be nice and make nice… But being blunt and truthful are very much a good description online or personally for that matter!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
AJ's ability to stay healthy is going to make him a superstar on this team
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
But Bishop gaining experience will make him expendable
when he tries to collect his $10 million dollars in 2011.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 27, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
But Bishop gaining experience will make Hawk expendable
when he tries to collect his $10 million dollars in 2011.
Is what I meant.
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 27, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Bishop is playing out of his mind!
Hawk should and will be gone next year, if they can sign bishop before he hits free agency. Hawk will be expendable because he will refuse to take a pay cut and Barnett and chillar should be healthy. Also hawk want to be a three down player. If our MLBs are healthy, ain’t no way he is on our nickel defense! I’m not saying hawk is a bum, he’s actually playing solid this year. That’s the problem solid isn’t good enough for top 5 pick and a 10 million dollar salary. Also, People can argue that bishop is playing better than Barnett did this year. Just more reasons to let hawk go.
by PACK3RS on Oct 27, 2010 11:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
look at our depth right now
then tell me again that Hawk should be gone
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
by blackoutsox on Oct 27, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not talking about this year!
He obviously won’t be let go this year, but this coming offseason he will definitely be gone, via trade!
by PACK3RS on Oct 28, 2010 12:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
your willing to take the chance that injuries dont repeat?
if we get someone else then fine
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
The sky is not falling
So here’s an outside the box thought for those worrying about the toll of injuries to this point.
How many of these guys are replaceable?
See we’ve now gotten to the point where we could talk about raw numbers of guys, or just look at who can just move on from. These are the guys who are average to below average. These are the guys who were already backups before they were hurt. These are the guys that the team can still absorb and move forward with a body off the street. Here you will find Poppinga and Jones. It sucks that they are gone, and there might be some attrition concerns, but really it’s not that big a deal overall.
Now more concerning is the Pickett and Jenkins situations. If these guys can’t get right then we are in some real trouble. This is especially true when you look at how depleted our ILB core is at the moment. We need at least one of those guys, if not both, to get right and on the field.
TT will be happy to see if he can move some of these guys for draft picks if they perform well!
I would rather the starters stay healthy and play. The silver lining to all this mess is that we can see if we actually had some diamond in the rough waiting. Maybe we can get rid of the expensive starter down the road.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 27, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Tend to agree
To an extent… Jones isn’t a huge deal but it hurts cuz Zombo is a rookie and not as assignment sure. Barnett hurt alot but isn’t a killer due to the depth at ILB. Barnett was an isprirational leader of the D, and that won’t be easily replaced, but its not a killer either. If we have to continue to go w/o Pickett much longer our run D is going to suffer. And playing the NYJ, run D will be a MUST. Jenkins must get back soon too. He was our best pass rusher after Matthews.
None of the player lost, w/ the exeption of Finley were playmakers… Just solid starters. Our depth is such that we can absorb them if there aren’t alot more. Finley really changed the way defenses played us. Losing him really hurt the offense.
Thank god Thompson has done such an excellent job of building the quality depth of this team.
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Well sure he’s no superstar but he is a steady performer and quite experienced at the position for us. Its not as bad as losing Nick Collins would be but on the flip side, we only have 2 of our 4 starting LB out there right now and Jones was a nice filler on the other side. He wasn’t spectacular but you could trust him to not make stupid plays. Losing him and Poppinga is a tough blow despite them not being superstars.
After looking at the roster,
when you see linebackers with numbers in the 40’s, you know your team is hurting.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 27, 2010 11:49 PM CDT reply actions
this amout of injuries is by far not normal, I think we all agree on that. Football is a violent colission sport, and injuries do happen, but the volume suffered by the Packers this season leaves me with questions that probably can’t be answered
Jokingly we could say it’s TTs karma for a certain personel decission a few years ago (no, I don’t want to open that discussion again…) to a certain extent I do believe in karma, but this I don’t believe this hard.
Is it just a cruel twist of faith ? probably not, if there is a god, he is a Packer fan.
So why all these injuries to the Packers? I think there’s only one reasonable explanation. It comes down to how McCarthy runs the practices and practice schedule. Wether he runs it too hard or too soft, or has he cut down on the streching time ? I don’t know. It might be some sort of mix between too hard/soft and not enough streching.
All I know is that the Packers have had more than the league average of players on injury report/reserve for all the seasons McCarthy has been the HC. which makes this the most reasonable explanation.
I didn’t say all the injuries were a result of not enough streching :-)
ACL / MCLs true, very little to do with streching, but they could be a result of too hard/soft practice schedule as the body is more acceptable to injury if not properly recovered or is put under heavyer work/contact than it’s used to.
Hamstrings injuries are mostly directly related to poor streching rutines.
Torn rotator cuff, could very well be a result of the combination I mentioned. Streching is a very effective way to reduce the chance of most injuries (my guess is 95% of all trainers and team doctors will agree)
A torn rotator cuff is more likely to happen if mucles and ligaments in the shoulder are too tight.
Trevor … I’ve had other things to do than spend a lot of time here expressing my displeasure with McCarthys playcalling among other things. His playcalling has been worse than usual this season.
as a former Stregnth and Conditioning coach
I can honestly tell you that you don’t know a damn thing about any ot this! So don’t try to tell everyone what is causing the injuries! You don’t know…
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Well
we could have people tripping over bags and breaking their fingers ala Carlos Boozer…
Trail Blazers atop the Northwest at 2-0!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 28, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Blame the S&C coach for not having Boozer strengthen that finger via video gaming.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 28, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Strohman just angrily threw his gum at you!!!!!
Trail Blazers atop the Northwest at 2-0!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 28, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Not agree... I only use one !
If I was angry I would have used multiple !!! on each sentence. LOL
You've been Stroh'd!!!
But he does not necessarily bite his thumb at you!!!
Trail Blazers atop the Northwest at 2-0!
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 28, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
ugh
dont remind me
4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow
+1
Again with the stretching/hamstring thing?! Stroh please correct me if I’m wrong but hamstring pulls are most likely results of a length-tension issue between the hamstring and quad and/or a core or lower back weakness or inflexibilty. Meaning that a stretch and count to 20 isn’t going to help the vast majority of hamsrting problems.
If you don't know the cadence of GO PACK GO your opinion doesn't matter
--John Jurkovic
Hamstrings
And other strains are from being exceptionally explosive in movements! Very little of that can be prevented by doing some stretches. The players are put thru warmups and active movement / active stretching to get them ready to make explosive movements but they can’t prepare the muscles for the amount of force the muscles then are exerting or generating.
Some amount of muscle strength issues can cause muscle pulls. There are certain ratios for strength between say the quads and Hamstrings. Those types of imbalances are checked regularly in any strength and conditioning program I’ve been involved in or designed. So they shouldn’t exist, but can develop gradually, if unchecked.
Also the length-tension issue your speaking of come about due to muscle strength ratios being out of balance…
Players train to be exceptionally explosive, as much as their genetics allow. They do what they can to prevent the muscle pulls, but in a game played so explosively they are unavoidable!
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Strohman imposter!
You only used one exclamation point in that entire post. Who are you and what have you done with Strohman?
Seriously, though, informative post. Any idea why CMIII keeps getting the hamstring injuries? Is this something that’s going to bother him his entire career or is this something that can pass? Is he doomed to be Shawne Merriman?
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 28, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
CMIII
Hamstrings can take months to fully heal. Remember his rookie year? He injured it early and was out of OTA’s and didn’t come back till training camp, then had a setback? Once you have a muscle tear like that it initially repairs itself w/ scar tissue. Then over the course of months the body breaksdown the scar tissue and real muscle develops in its place. Having that scar tissue allows the muscle to be used but not in an explosive manner. You seem to test it out OK, but when you try explosive movements on the field under stressful sitations, it can easily tear the scar tissue and then it sets you back again.
Because Matthews is such an explosive athlete he is especially susceptible! That said I don’t think he’ll continually to have problems w/ it… Most athletes seem to gain an understanding of how they become injured and learn to make adjustments to avoid it. Continual muscle pulls isnt something I"ve ever heard of bothering a player year after year after year. Granted this is Matthews 2nd season w/ the same problem, but it seems unlikely that he would continue to have them every season… And if memory serves he had some of the most explosiveness as tested in the combines for a LB. That alone makes him a little more susceptible. Can’t say it won’t happen though! At this point it would seem Matthews has a unique genetic makeup that allows him to be so explosive! Meaning he likely has a very high % of fast twitch muscle fibers.
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Interesting
Scar tissue is replaced over time with muscle? I had always thought that scar tissue remained forever. Let’s hope Matthews grows that muscle back, gets used to his limits, and never has problems again. To be honest, I was worried that his injury might be indicative of steroids (being a former teammate of Brian Cushing, after all) because his injury might be a sign that his muscles were stronger than his genes had ever intended. Relieved to read your post for a few reasons. Thanks!
by I voted for Kodos on Oct 28, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
wow !
so after countless hours with physical therapie, help from ATC’s on my own hamstrings and conversations with MDs I have no idea what I’m talking about??
I do know (and agree) that the more explosive a player is, the more susceptible he is to pulls and strains, but do not try to BS me about streching being a non factor.
I know there are some studies saying that streching has no effect in preventing injuries, those are just as bogus as the studies that says smoking does not cause cancer.
I had a coach once who bought into one of those studies, and the first practice he conducted w/o streching, our team had 4 hamstrings (3 pull + one tear) and 3 groinpulls happen. safe to say we went back to streching next practice.
As for your comments on healing, a severe pull can take up to two years to fully heal, and if you get scar tissue (due to improper rehap) that scar tissue does not take months to heal, it takes many years, if ever healed completly. I have that from physical teraphist, ATC’s and MDs, so don’t say I have no clue. True, some people recover faster than others.
But if you (strohman) have any other more reasonable explanation other than my thoughs on how McCarthy runs practice or maybe lack of streching, I’d be happy to hear them. (twist of faith or TTs karma ??? :-p )
Sure, football is a violent sport, and injuries happen, and yeah, people can trip on the carpet at home and break a leg, but the fact that the Packers have had more injuries than the average NFL team for the years McCarthy has been there, there has to be something going on…..
Equipment
the wrong cleats look about as likely as strength and conditioning problems. And there’s nothing I’ve seen to point to the cleats.
Sometimes random events appear to cluster.
Active Stretching
What I know and have learned from ATC is that static stretching does little to nothing… ANd I did mention warmups and active stretching to prepare the body as ways to help prevent it… But laying on the floor or table and doing some stretch is a motionless positiion does little to prevent muscle strains! Guess you didn’t bother to read that part!
Any muscle pull is a strain, there are verying degrees of them. 1st, 2nd and 3rd… Obviously any time a team has alot of strains the S and C is an obvious place to look. An athele needs proper warmup and active stretching to prepare their bodies for the rigors of practice and games! Laying in place and stretching is NOT what the body needs. Once in games, and the warm up is completed, you really can’t blame a strain on the S and C…
You've been Stroh'd!!!
Does anyone have a comprehensive list..
of who the Packers have lost since the opening day 53? I’m really not a masochist..
I agree with the above poster on the play of Bishop. It’s good to see a guy actually take advantage of his opportunities..I wasn’t a huge fan of Barnett to begin with, and I don’t think there is a lot of dropoff with Bishop. I could be wrong..
Sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.
A Defensive Lineman?
I thought we would pick up another LB and run the Psycho package exclusively the rest of the year.
Haha well we just picked 3 up yesterday so maybe we will!
In all seriousness though, I think we’ll continue to see a lot of our nickel defense.
by packallday555 on Oct 28, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you guys looked at the Vikings Fan Confidence Poll,
over at DN? lol.
TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!
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