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Around SBN: Upon Further Review: Bo Knows Longreads

Randy Moss Is Traded To The Vikings

Sorry to steal the conversation away from the FanPost on this subject, but the trade of WR Randy Moss to the Vikings for a 3rd round pick is a big story

First, I'm still surprised the Patriots made this move. Yes, he isn't being a good teammate, and he wanted a new contract. But he's also a deep threat who can spread the field and open up the short passing game for guys like WR Wes Welker. But as Bill Simmons pointed out, the Patriots defense is young and probably a couple years away from challenging for another Super Bowl. By the time that happens, Moss isn't going to be around anyway. 

Second, while Moss really fills a need for the Vikings, he isn't the best fit. They need a replacement for WR Sidney Rice, who's job it was to run the slant route. That's not what Moss does best, as he's usually running deep. He's duplicating the role of WR Percy Harvin (unless Harvin is going to start running short routes in the middle of the field). Adding a receiver like WR Donald Driver would have been a lot more valuable. 

Eric at Daily Norseman has an excellent statistical analysis that points out the slight statistical bump by his addition (though it does add about 10% to the likelihood they make the playoffs). Still, as Aaron Schatz at Football Outsiders points out, Moss clearly has something left in tank and should help them this season. If all it cost them was the promise to discuss a contract extension, and a 3rd round draft choice, that's not a high price to pay for a team trying to win now at any cost.

Third, how much should Moss worry the Green Bay Packers? We'll it's not going to be like 1998 all over again. The Packers cornerbacks are taller then many teams, and while not as tall as Moss, it won't be a significant mismatch. Right now, until we can see some games with Moss in a Viking uniform, we'll have to wait and see.

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This makes me so angry for so many different reasons I can’t rationally put anything into words.

Joke

by Archimedies on Oct 6, 2010 3:38 PM CDT reply actions  

You're angry that Minnesota is betting the farm that they win the SB this year?

While this certainly works in the Vikings favor this year and against the Packers, one of these teams is set up to compete next year and one of them is not.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Oct 6, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

My opinions

- I dislike Randy Moss
- I dislike the Minnesota Vikings
- I disliked Randy Moss when he played for the Vikings previously
- I dislike that the Packers still have to play the Vikings, and Moss, twice.

You’re angry that Minnesota is betting the farm that they win the SB this year?

Yes.

Joke

by Archimedies on Oct 6, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly…its not even betting the farm. Its a third rounder and some money in an uncapped year. Big deal.

by TrevorR on Oct 8, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Luckily, we have Woodson on the team. If he can do a decent job against Calvin Johnson he should be able to do a decent job against Moss. He’ll probably give a big play up here and there but he’ll probably make a play just as much.

On a side note, it’ll be interesting to see him and Revis go at it again this Monday night.

by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2010 4:00 PM CDT reply actions  

If all else is equal then you're right

But it’s not equal, when you look at who’s throwing both CJ and RM the ball.

by dsludo on Oct 6, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Brett throws more picks. (I kid, I kid.)

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 6, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

True, and I’d say Moss is better then Johnson too. But after Revis, I’m not sure there’s any other guy in the league I’d rather have to cover Moss than Woodson.

by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Betting the farm?

I wouldnt say giving up a 3 is betting the farm. I give the queens credit, at least they’re TRYING while we sit on our hands.

by bigbill992001 on Oct 6, 2010 5:42 PM CDT reply actions  

My feelings exactly.

At least their guy isn’t just sitting in his office hoping his players get better. Unfortunately, I don’t think Murphy has the stones to hold anyone accountable for that fact, particularly since there’s a lockout coming.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 6, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not alone.

There are good reasons to be skeptical of Lynch. I do think Thompson should be held accountable for his refusal to explore every avenue of acquiring talent. Fired? No. Not yet. But there are other ways to make a point.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2010 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he is speaking just about Lynch…more just in general.

by TrevorR on Oct 8, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

It kind of is. That’s a pretty valuable pick for a one season rental. If they extend his contract then it’s a huge headache so either way it’s not the greatest deal for them.

by Mr. Saturn on Oct 7, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

It is.

But Favre and Williams (at least if you believe them) are 1 season rentals too, so what the hell, right? They’re trying to win it this year and damn 2011, because without Favre and Williams there’s a decent chance they can’t win it next year anyway.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2010 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is it a rental when you played them last year as well

Or in Williams case he played many years before last year? It would be like saying anyone who is close to the end of his career is a rental.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Oct 7, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

The point is that they say they're in their last year.

I called them rentals to illustrate the point that they have two significant contributors who’ve said they’re done after this year, and thus throwing a draft pick out there for a one year rental makes a lot more sense under those circumstances. If that offends you, sorry.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 7, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

No it didn't offend me I just didn't 'understand the reference

I mean I can kinda understand Favre as a rental… And yes we will be in an interesting spot next season.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Oct 8, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rest of this year is going to be interesting too.

Obviously I’ve got an interest in seeing the Packers win and the Vikings lose, but the dynamic between the Packers and the Vikings is pretty interesting regardless. I’m one of the Packer fans losing patience with Thompson’s refusal to make moves outside the draft and street free agents. I’d love it if the guy’s running the front office for my team were constantly trying to make moves like the ones the Vikings are making. They’re better than 1-2, but they need to start winning now and they know it. The Packers schedule gets rougher in the middle than it has been so far. The Vikings schedule does the opposite. But that won’t matter if the Vikings don’t stay in shouting distance before the worm turns.

The Vikings/Jets game is gonna be a blast to watch.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 8, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are giving up a 50/50 shot at a young kid that will probably take 2-3 years to be ready to start if he’s even capable of it for one of the best WRs to play the game who you still have a chance of resigning if you want to? Its a tiny tiny price…especially for a veteran team like the Vikings.

by TrevorR on Oct 8, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I completely agree.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 8, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to look at this another way.

The Patriots sending Randy Moss to the Vikings is a tacit endorsement of Brandon Tate’s capabilities as a WR. He’s young, he’s got big playability (he has 2 KR TDs in just 4 weeks) and he’s coming off a double ligament tear that took him out of the first round and put him firmly in the third, where Kraft and Belichick grabbed him out of UNC. He’s got speed and fairly good hands on his side (as well as arguably the deadliest slot receiver in the NFL, Wes Welker on the other side of the field), and Brady is going to get him a lot of mileage in his first season.

I'm just glad Scott Tolzien didn't go all Drew Tate on Nick Toon and whack him upside the head...
No longer using Yahoo! Sports for anything besides stat checking since 9/29/2010...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 6, 2010 7:02 PM CDT reply actions  

DN, always classy as ever, I see…

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2010/10/6/1735054/vikings-sign-randy-moss-the-packers-are-on-notice

Ugh. Moss was a GREAT receiver in a Minnesota uniform, but in no way does that necessarily mean that his presence on the Minnesota Vikings brings down Farve’s 1:3 TD:INT ratio. That ratio is HORRIBLE no matter how you look at it.

Maybe the Vikings should just cut Farve and bring back Daunte Culpepper again.

I'm just glad Scott Tolzien didn't go all Drew Tate on Nick Toon and whack him upside the head...
No longer using Yahoo! Sports for anything besides stat checking since 9/29/2010...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 6, 2010 7:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Hope so...

Sorry to see your main man might need IR if the doctors recommend surgery. Ugh.

I'm just glad Scott Tolzien didn't go all Drew Tate on Nick Toon and whack him upside the head...
No longer using Yahoo! Sports for anything besides stat checking since 9/29/2010...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 6, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

viqueens fans need SOMETHING to keep them...

from looking at the next 4 games on the schedule. And I find it hilarious that people even suggest that a wide receiver is the missing piece from a SB run.

by mike_o on Oct 7, 2010 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ya, I’m kinda embarrassed about that article. Doesn’t really make look all that classy.

by Jayrome007 on Oct 7, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree he's not the impact he was in 98

Defenses have learned how to deal with tall, fast athletic receivers as many teams picked up people like Moss after he made his way onto the field. However, he does give Favre a target that will go up and battle for the football. Currently we don’t really have a receiver that does that. Also, it allows Berrian to be a #2 again (because frankly he’s not a #1 receiver) and Harvin to go back to playing the slot where he can get some better mismatches.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Oct 7, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, this helps and I don’t really think it’s something that can be argued. Now when Favre is facing pressure (which I think will be a recurring theme this season for him) he can just simply throw it up to Moss. He won’t catch it all the time but when he does it’ll be a big play. Your point about Harvin is a great one too.

But most of all, this helps Peterson. How do you bring another safety up into the box now? You’ve got Moss against a cornerback and a safety, which for him is a good match-up. And you’ve probably got your outside receiver, or slot guy in single coverage. Even if Moss doesn’t tear it up, he still helps the entire offense because of the respect he demands.

by packallday555 on Oct 7, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

This helps the Vikes in a lot of ways

Favre, obviously has another deep threat. Which keeps safeties deep and further from Peterson. Harvin moving to the slot. It’s a Domino Effect that scares me a bit. Luckily Randy won’t help in pass protection. This is not good for the Packers.

by I voted for Kodos on Oct 8, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah I really wish we'd done a bit more on our O line

I mean Gerhart may still be a great aquisition, but right now picking up a solid O Lineman looks like a much better idea.

It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...

by Grime on Oct 8, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. After seeing McKinnie melt down late last season, I was convinced he had begun his decline and I think he’s continued that this season. The surprise to me is Loadholt. I thought he was going to turn into a good right tackle after a pretty good rookie season but he’s really struggled this season. And Herrea is what he always has been.

by packallday555 on Oct 8, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

On a side note, I thought the Gerhart pick was a poor one for you. I still think just picking Best to fill Taylor’s role would have been much more beneficial. And I don’t really see Gerhart turning into much, unless your offensive line improves. He’s a powerful runner but to me he looks like one of those guys that needs a big hole to run through. He doesn’t seem like he can find one on his own. It’s still early though, so I suppose that could change.

by packallday555 on Oct 8, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Schedule gets tougher

This is probably more appropriate for the “Power Rankings” thread, but it looks like folks have moved over to this one.

The Packers schedule gets tougher now. So far, they have beaten two awful, winless teams and one decidedly mediocre team (that lost its QB, C, MLB, and FB in the game) and lost to another middling team. The Bears are better than was expected, but they’re not an elite team by any stretch. The next 5 games before the BYE are @Was, vs. Mia, vs. Min, @ NYJ, and vs. Dal. That’s a tough stretch, with no lousy teams in the bunch. The lousiest is probably Washington, but that’s on the road. I’d say going 3-2 in this stretch would be pretty darn good. The last 7 games then feature roadies in Atl and NE, and the Giants and Niners at Lambeau, in addition to Rd 2 of the divisional games (2 on the road). 4-3 in that stretch seems optimistic. To my mind, finishing the season 7-5 is the best we can reasonably expect (which means 10-6 overall), and finishing 5-7 (8-8) is probably just as likely. So my best guess would be 9-7.

by LA Cheese on Oct 6, 2010 7:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Glass half full, or half empty?

An optimist would say that the Packers have managed to go 3-1 while looking pretty awful for 3.5 games, and that they were lucky to have their slump against lousy competition and come out of it only slightly scathed. Now they just need to focus and play better, and they’ll be fine.

A pessimist would say that against better competition, they could easily be 1-3, and the tougher schedule to come will expose them as mediocre pretenders.

I think I’ll abandon reason and focus instead on prayer.

by LA Cheese on Oct 6, 2010 7:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Looks like it'll depend on his doctor's recommendation

and whether he follows it or not.

Wrist injuries are always a pain to deal with. Elbow injuries almost always end your season on the spot…

I'm just glad Scott Tolzien didn't go all Drew Tate on Nick Toon and whack him upside the head...
No longer using Yahoo! Sports for anything besides stat checking since 9/29/2010...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 6, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yikes

As much as I wanted Lynch, I think we need defensive help more. And I think that’s much harder to find.

by LA Cheese on Oct 6, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hard to find good 3-4 MLBs nowadays...

I imagine someone could do a FanPost on it. Brandon would get bashed, I’d get ignored, and texwestern is in other parts…or so I think.

I'm just glad Scott Tolzien didn't go all Drew Tate on Nick Toon and whack him upside the head...
No longer using Yahoo! Sports for anything besides stat checking since 9/29/2010...

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Oct 6, 2010 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bishop

time for him to get some serious playing time so we can see what we have in him.

by gern blanston on Oct 6, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately, I think we already know. He’s a faster version of Hawk basically. Only not nearly as assignment sure, and maybe worse in coverage. Who knows though, maybe some consistent playing time will help him out.

by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2010 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

This season really seems like it’s going downhill fast. I really hope he can play this season out and put the surgery off.

by packallday555 on Oct 6, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I fear you're right.

Bishop is (yet) another Cal guy whose every college game I watched. His forte was rushing the passer, making tackles behind the line, and generally flying to the point of attack. Sort of a college version of Junior Seau. He freelanced a lot and made a lot of great plays on speed and instincts. I never thought he was a good cover guy, or big enough to take on a TE or OLman mano a mano. He was best in space, when bigger guys took on the blocks and he could run free to the ball carrier. Now, that was a few years ago, and he certainly could have improved his technique. But he didn’t get any bigger or faster. So yeah, a faster version of Hawk in that he plays the run better than the pass, but probably not as much of a sure tackler as Hawk either. Bishop hits. Hawk kinda mauls guys once (if) he gets to them at all.

by LA Cheese on Oct 6, 2010 9:31 PM CDT reply actions  

I mean at least he has good speed and is athletic. Hawk definitely lacks that in my opinion. I think Bishop will be pretty strong against the run but if you look at our games so far this season, teams don’t run much against us and there’s a reason for it. Doing so plays to the strength of our defense. Instead teams have just been spreading us out, and picking us apart. It’s in those situations that Bishop makes me nervous.

by packallday555 on Oct 7, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oops sorry

That was supposed to be a reply to packallday555.

by LA Cheese on Oct 6, 2010 9:32 PM CDT reply actions  

yep, Barnett is done for the season

  Adam_Schefter Adam Schefter
Packers LB Nick Barnett is out for season after suffering a wrist injury similar to one that ended Brian Urlacher’s season last year.

by Nick Barnett's Afro on Oct 6, 2010 9:49 PM CDT reply actions  

dont panic yet

Thome Walks-Off Sox, Twists Knife, Continues To Make Sox Brass Look REALLY Stupid - White Sox Season Recap

by blackoutsox on Oct 6, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

May I ask why not?

Because I’m already there

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Oct 7, 2010 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I almost am too. I’m willing to give Bishop a chance because consistently playing could help him but in all reality, I kind of doubt it will.

by packallday555 on Oct 7, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Losers panic, winners adapt.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but ohhh soooo true!

by Strohman on Oct 7, 2010 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Which says nothing of use.

He’s worried because he’s afraid they won’t be able to adapt. If you’re not, you’re foolish. We all hope it’s just a bump in the road, but referring to others as losers because they’re worried doesn’t reveal your confidence or make you a winner, it just makes you judgmental and naive, even if your hopes turn out to be well founded.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Oct 8, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

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