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Packers Set To Release Al Harris

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(Via JSOnline) ESPN Milwaukee reports that the Green Bay Packers have told CB Al Harris that he'll be released on Monday. Tom Silverstein explained that it wouldn't make sense to place Harris on I.R. and pay his salary. Also, he doesn't expect any team to claim Harris (due to that high salary) but he could catch on somewhere else.

I've hesitated all year to discuss his return because, as Jason Wilde detailed, Harris tore the heck out of his knee. This wasn't just a torn ACL. Add in the fact that he's about to turn 36 years old, a remarkable age for a cornerback, and it's easy to see how his comeback was a longshot.

His other problem is that the Packers now have some depth at cornerback. CB Tramon Williams continues to improve since taking over as the starter (Ravens "armbar" game excepted), undrafted rookie CB Sam Shields has surprised many by taking over as the nickelback, the coaches still insist on playing CB Jarrett Bush, and CB Brandon Underwood is a decent option at the end of the bench. That's a lot of depth for Harris to fight his way through, and the coaches and personnel department didn't believe he had done it.

Harris "has only good things to say about Green Bay" and I only have good things to say about him. He was acquired by Mike Sherman in a trade before the 2003 season and started every game for 5+ seasons until a torn spleen sidelined him in 2008. He made the Pro Bowl in 2007 and 2008, and arguably deserved to go to Hawaii even before then. To me, his most memorable game was the pick 6 in the 2004 playoff game (2003 season) against the Seahawks.

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IF Harris is released

I have a feeling the Vikings will try to get him.

by Darrell L on Nov 8, 2010 1:54 AM CST reply actions  

Want to add

Harris is the kind of player with a damn good attitude for young players to look up to. Very professional guy. Hell of a player when he was healthy.

by Darrell L on Nov 8, 2010 1:58 AM CST up reply actions  

NO DOUBT the vikings will try

there is a laundry list of ex-packers that have gone to the vikings. some for money, others for vengeance… harris is a stand-up MAN. he may play somewhere else, but not there…

by Mark Inman on Nov 8, 2010 6:14 AM CST up reply actions  

If we cut him

doesn’t he go on Waivers?

And if that’s the case… he very well could end up in purple and gold by year’s end… Not a lot of teams are going to try and claim a 36 year old guy w/ a large salary and a recently destroyed knee

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 6:17 AM CST up reply actions  

They have to pay his salary then though. That is why it says they don’t expect anyone to pick him up. The Vikes would be doing us a favor by claiming him.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 6:23 AM CST up reply actions  

huh?

is his salary still guaranteed even though he’s been cut? I know if a vested veteran is on after week 1, their salary is guaranteed. Yet I don’t know how that works in coming off PUP.

by gern blanston on Nov 8, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

No its the opening day 53 man.

Packer cutting him may be due to his 6M salary! If he clears waivers and nobody signs him for his current contract, he can be re-signed by anyone at what ever they negotiate. Packers don’t want him at 6M for a dime CB… Maybe they wait till he clears waivers and try to re-sign him for vets minimum!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I said this on the other thread too

but if he clears waivers aren’t we still responsible for the 6M even if he works out another deal. So if we resign him at the Vet minimum, we’d be paying 6M+ the vet min… or am I wrong on how Waivers really work… I am just basing it off what I heard during the Randy Moss ordeal

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

No...

Not that I’m aware of… We would be responsible if he was on the 53 man opening day! But I don’t think coming off PUP qualifies! If he clears waives nobody owes him anything… He’s a FA.

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

ahhh thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering too!

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:08 AM CST up reply actions  

they dont want him because he will probably be ineffective and is old

not because he is being paid 6 million

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 8, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Even if he were effective, they ain’t going to pay the dime CB 6M per or whatever his salary is…

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I am sure the salary is part of the equation. Who wants to pay a guy past his prime who isn’t going to crack the starting lineup $6 mill a year??

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

False choice.

JS Online says his salary for the remaining aprt of the year is 1.25 million. His salaray next year is 2.9 million.

But I’m not even arguing for next year. Just the next 8 weeks and the playoffs.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Business

If Harris clears waivers (a real probability) and the Vikings offer him a contract, then he’ll play for the Vikings. If more than one team offer a contract, he’ll most likely choose on terms of salary and a chance to start.

by MikeDB on Nov 8, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

And they may not even have to put in a waiver claim. I’d IR Lee or, gosh, I don’t know, cut our 3rd FB to Keep Harris around. The balance of his salary isn’t that bad. MN needs DBs who can cover and Al always has been able to do that, as long as you don’t ask him to play zone.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 7:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I read somewhere that Pat Lee had a high ankle sprain and could be put on IR.

by MikeDB on Nov 8, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I read that too...

… but the IR is probably out if they’re cutting Harris.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

WRONG.

The Seahawks will sign him. If for no other reason than because their manager doesn’t seem to have any talent for scouting anyone himself.

I’m really sorry to see Al go. I really hoped his injury wasn’t so serious that it would have cost him his spot on the Green Bay roster. It would have been good to see him suited up in Green and Gold and on the field at least one last time.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi

by AdamA on Nov 8, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

He was a great guy to have on the team

I always liked the way he tackled. Tended to throw guys down with his arms a lot. Probably not the best way to do it but it looked badass.

by Pack Man on Nov 8, 2010 2:16 AM CST reply actions  

Sad news

I’ll probably have similar feelings when Driver retires. Both of those guys epitomize what a great Packer should be…

"But we all know that games aren't played on paper...they are played by little men inside our TV sets." --Kenny Mayne

by dishingoutdimes on Nov 8, 2010 2:32 AM CST reply actions   4 recs

+1

Formerly known as BleedsbluinMi.
"You ain't a beauty, but hey you're alright. And that's alright with me" - The Boss

by Dmc202 on Nov 8, 2010 7:32 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

Formerly known as BleedsbluinMi.
"You ain't a beauty, but hey you're alright. And that's alright with me" - The Boss

by Dmc202 on Nov 8, 2010 7:32 AM CST up reply actions  

You could have just said +2

Would have saved you time :-P

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 8, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

+100000

It appears as if my signature carries a certain weight with the Suns front office. I called for Jared Dudley to be extended, and they obeyed. I'm kind of a big deal. So BSotS, what should I demand next?

EXTEND JASON RICHARDSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Omaha Sun on Nov 8, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it would be better if we released him after this season, but I do understand this move

I’m not sure this is the best idea, but I certainly understand the move. Shields and Williams certainly earned their spot on the depth chart. It’s one of those things: Why fix what isn’t broken? However, is Bush/Underwood really a better option at #4 over Harris? Certainly we can save more money by simply releasing him, but aren’t we looking to field the best players on the roster? Despite our injury issues, we are still winning wins and contending not only for an NFC North Title, but the Superbowl. I think our best option would be to release him after this year.

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Nov 8, 2010 3:28 AM CST reply actions  

Bush/Underwood

contribute a lot on ST which is what you have 3rd and 4th string players for more so then their actual position… Al doesn’t do ST and its hard to keep a roster spot for someone that probably won’t see the field often.

I also think at 36 he’s not healing very well and while rehab may have gone well, he’s not adapting to game speed and football type movements (cuts and sprints and so on)… I mean he destroyed that knee and as much as I wish he could come back, I just don’t think the body will let him at this point.

Finally, I think the whole outright release is more a nod of respect and saying thanks for your time and service, and we’re not going to stuff you on IR to go another year w/o playing if there’s someone out there that wants you on their team go get ’em

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 6:15 AM CST up reply actions  

True

That’s a good point where he would probably prefer to be released so he has a chance to start elsewhere. I’m sure he’s hurt in a way, but appreciates it in another way. Like I said though, I understand the intentions of it, because you are right, guys like Bush contribute on Special Teams, and Bush is a decent ST contributor. Whereas Harris wouldn’t contribute. We’d also face the question of who do we release if we activate Harris.

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Nov 8, 2010 8:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Keeping players for the future

I think that you are very right on both counts. Underwood and Bush are ahead of Harris because of special teams. And being released allows him a chance to keep playing, rather than sitting on the Packer bench. At 35-36 years old, he doesn’t have much playing time left, so he needs his opportunity now.

I’d also add that the Packers were high on Underwood at one point. Releasing a player who can play well for you over the next 5+ years to make room for an older player, who may not be able to play doesn’t make sense from a football point of view.

Bush has also been playing on defense better this year than in previous years.

by MikeDB on Nov 8, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

This move tells me TT has written off 2010

Just read McCarthy’s presser transcripts and it doesn’t seem the rehab process was as important as what the team would look like going forward. My guess is that they simply want to build what they have for the future and let the current season play itself out with what they have.

Personally, I think they could have rotated him in at different positions in the secondary to provide enough different looks that it might have forced teams to look short, but the truth is that I’m not really unhappy at all with how the defense has been playing and… well, maybe Al really wants to be able to start somewhere instead of a slow work back as a bit player. Make an impact before he decides himself to retire.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi

by AdamA on Nov 8, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

huh?
Shows me that Harris just doesn’t have much left.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you're way off on this

he was cut because he only plays one position… bump and run CB and we’re set at CB right now. He can’t contribute to special teams and he’s pretty bad in zone so he can’t be a ballhawk as a safety.

I think if Tramon WIlliams and Sam Shields weren’t playing pretty lights-out football then we keep him and boot someone else. But we right now have 2 very good CBs in Woodson and WIlliams and a good Nickle in Shields. If one of them goes down then we have Jarrett Bush who’s looked decent this year and Brandon Underwood who they were pretty high on during TC.

You can’t pay 6M and give a roster spot to someone that won’t contribute to the team. At least Underwood and Bush play on ST. I think the release is more a sign of respect and allowing him to go get a job and don’t think it has anything to do with writing the season off

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay, but...

If you knew for certain that the Pack was bound to go deep in the playoffs, would you feel any differently? Remember, we haven’t seen Al Harris’ performance level. McCarthy clearly said that his condition wasn’t a significant factor, it was the future of the team (he later started getting a little bit parsimonious about his own words) he was concerned with.

Guess the only was we’ll know for sure is when he gets signed by someone else.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi

by AdamA on Nov 8, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm a bit confused by your response

Are you asking me if I would feel differently about Al Harris being waived or differently about TT writing off the season if I KNEW GB was going to go deep in the playoffs?

Either way, the answer is NO. If I knew we were going deep then there’s no way you can say TT wrote the season off since we were deep in the playoffs and playing either in like the NFCCG or SB. I also wouldn’t feel different about Al Harris because he’s a bigger question mark then Bush/Underwood. We know what we’re getting w/ them… a serviceable nickle and ST players… Al Harris is 36 and coming off a destroyed knee so there’s no way to tell what he’s going to do… furthermore, he’s started his decline as an ELITE CB before the injury, so it’s safe to assume he’ll be worse now.

Next in day of PCness and everything do you expect MM to come out and be like, “Al Harris’ knee is gone… we’d be better off takin him out back and Old Yellering him”?… Of course he’s going to say that he expects him to recover and contribute elsewhere… whether that’s true or not is a different story and I’m going to steal a line from Stroh here… I guarantee you the coaching staff knows WAY more about what Al Harris can do then anyone of us… so if they don’t think he can cut it then we NEED to trust them on this one!!!

Finally, I wasn’t aware that playing for this season and keeping the future in mind were mutually exclusive… I think by letting Al go, we’re doing both… we’re keeping STers and allowing our younger CBs (Shields) to develop and it’s not like they’ve been bad this year so there’s no need to bring him back

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 9, 2010 3:56 AM CST up reply actions  

this comment fails

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 8, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

+!

Huge fail!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

That fail just smacks of

people who said Wisconsin was done after losing to MSU.

Yeah. Right.

Wisconsin, proudly throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 8, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

FAIL!

TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!

by NorthStarr on Nov 9, 2010 3:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I was really looking forward

to his return.

That pick 6 was one of my all time favorite plays. And if it wasn’t for a certain play that happened a week later, it would probably be the most memorable play of the decade for the me. I still remember Hassleback saying he is going to score.

I hope he is able to somehow find work somewhere else. Just not on the Vikings. UGH!

by UncleJustice on Nov 8, 2010 3:32 AM CST reply actions  

+1

Very very underrated point. Clearly Shields is really starting to come into his own and the D is playing out of its MIND. We kinda eluded to this last night in the game threads so I guess I am not shocked though its a little sad.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 6:25 AM CST up reply actions  

That’s a question that I would have. What would it do to Shields’ development to bench him in favor of Harris? Shields looks like a real keeper, and I’d hate to mess up his development into perhaps a great cover corner. Of course, it looks like the Packers aren’t going to do that.

by MikeDB on Nov 8, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

Harris asked for his release cuz the Packers told him he would be the dime CB at best! They weren’t going to take Shields off the nickel CB spot IMO… Maybe Harris asked for his release. Either that or the Packers didn’t want to pay the dime CB 6M per season!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

very unlikely, and probably not

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 8, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm just gonna go ahead and copy my post from the game ball section

Well I don’t know how I feel about this…

I mean his play was declining before the injury and he was starting to give up big plays or crucial penalties at times. On the other hand… I can’t seem to shake the image of those Dreadlocks flowing after Matty announced, "We want the ball and we’re gonna score" and boy did he ever score.

I think this would be a much harder pill to swallow if Tramon wasn’t playing at such a high level and Sam Shields wasn’t looking really good considering he’s never really played DB before.

But with that said, I feel for Al, he’s been busting his ass to get back and play, it just looks like the body won’t let him and maybe by waiving him, the FO is giving a nod to him and letting him go out and play if he can instead of stuffing him on IR to get a year older

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 6:08 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Not surprised

I talked about how I didn’t expect him to be much of an impact player all off season. He’s too old and it was too awful of an injury. I am sure he lost a lot of speed and quickness but 36 is getting pretty damn old for a CB anyway even without the injury and I think he had already lost a step or two last year before the injury. You put him out there now and it means more grabbing and stuff to keep from getting burned.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 6:26 AM CST reply actions  

Al's rehab videos

were somewhat of an inspiration. It was a great insight into the guys personality – his strengh of character, his determination, positive outlook on life, etc. I was almost convinced he was going to come back stonger than ever given how hard he worked.

It’s inevitable, I guess, that all things must pass. Al is/was a great pro. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and his abilities. I hope he latches on somewhere (out of the division).

As has been pointed out, ultimately this one came down to a numbers game. And with the defense playing as well as it has, and his age, it just doesn’t add up. Still, we’re one injury away from needing a guy like that…..

by gern blanston on Nov 8, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess we’ll have to wait and see how he plays based on where he lands. I really don’t see him doing much though.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for everything, Al. We’ll miss ya.

by AaronR on Nov 8, 2010 6:31 AM CST reply actions  

Yeah

he clearly had lost a step last yr., but I’m gonna miss him. I knew he wouldn’t come back from that he, he really blew it up. There are some teans out there that will probably take him but his salary is a big drawback.
GOOD LUCK, AL!

by bigbill992001 on Nov 8, 2010 6:49 AM CST reply actions  

This is a bad call, in my opinion.

I wouldn’t bench Shields or Williams for him anymore, but I’d keep him on the roster. We’re an injury away from using Bush in the nickel. Do they seriously think he’s worse than Bush? I don’t. But Bush plays special teams fairly well so I guess they want to keep him around.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 7:02 AM CST reply actions  

Obviously he is. We haven’t seen him play so who knows what he has in him. My guess is that he wasn’t playing well at all. At some point you have to look at skill, not the name.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I doubt it's a question of skill...

… I don’t know how he’s practiced since he’s been back, but there’s no question that Harris has more skill than som CB’s on the roster. Can he still play? I dunno. But ask yourself: are you more nervous about the Vikings picking up Harris or Bush? I know my answer.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not worried about them getting either.

Harris has been slowly becoming more of a liability. I felt like he was getting burned more and getting more penalties on him. I wasn’t that impressed with what I saw from him in 2009 before the injury so my hopes for him in 2010 were very low.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

VIkes

I don’t see the vike picking him up! They play that Tampa Cover 2 mostly and Harris struggles in zone. He is best as a Press Man CB. Then his lack of speed and quicks doesn’t hurt him if he knocks the WR off his route early… That was always his strength, not chasing or playing facing the QB!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly. They are all clamoring for it up here but its pretty ridiculous. He would fail royaly in this system so tell them I hope they DO pick him up cause we can pick on him ALL day in week 11.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:14 AM CST up reply actions  

They don't play cover 2 all the time.

Particularly now that their DL isn’t as effective rushing the passer. And if they get guys who can play press man, they’ll have to resort to cover 2 even less.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Not very concerned about the Vikings getting Harris

I’m sad to see Harris go, but it really does seem like the right decision. He isn’t a great fit for our scheme and doesn’t play special teams. There are only a few people who know all the reasons they let Al go, but we may never know. With a severe injury for a 36-year-old CB who was already in decline I think it’s very likely he just couldn’t cut it, and the Packers cut him so he has a chance to go somewhere else before it’s too late.

As for him going to the Vikings or Bears I’m definitely not worried. He doesn’t fit their Tampa 2 schemes. I’d be most worried about him going to the Lions, really.

Maybe he’ll go to the Vikings or Bears as a spy! Give them fake info while passing on their stuff to us. And it would work too, because Childress would have such a boner over having another former Packer on his squad that he wouldn’t even wonder why Al was sitting in on the offensive drills as well as on defense.

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 12:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Bush?

I think that we’d see Underwood and/or Lee before we saw Bush in the nickel.

by MikeDB on Nov 8, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Lee's injured

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 8, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I’m assuming he comes back after the bye, if they are willing to cut Harris.

by MikeDB on Nov 8, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Bummer

I hate to see him go, but you can see how it went down. Ted Thompson is a guy that will cut a veteran to keep a young guy, and the way Shields played last night you can’t blame him. I agree that you need to keep Bush and Underwood for special teams.

I wondered if they might have looked at moving him to safety and replacing a guy like Peprah or Smith. But again you have special teams contributors and Peprah seems to be playing well.

And none of really know if he is completely recovered from his injury. I didn’t see it coming, but in hindsight I guess its not surprising. Williams and Shields both stepped up and took the starter’s job and nickel job from him.

by grant76 on Nov 8, 2010 7:10 AM CST reply actions  

Harris not a fit at safety

And really, do you think Al Harris would have been fast enough to keep up with Miles Austin and make that pick last night?

I don’t think any of us will really know what happened, why it happened, and who was consulted. Maybe at the end of the year, maybe if someone writes their memoirs.

I too would have liked to see Harris come back but it’s not a very surprising move at this point. He seems like a classy guy and he gave us lots of good memories. Also one of the Founding Fathers of the Green Bay Packers Most Dreaded Secondary.

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 12:34 AM CST up reply actions  

TT cutting veterans

TT only cuts the veterans in favor of the young guys if those young guys are ready to take over that role. Thus being why DD and Charles Woodson, 2 aging veterans, received contract extensions. Although we have depth at both positions, we don’t know if any of the backups can step up and produce the same way they can. Harris was indeed expendable because he didn’t play well last year and is coming off a serious injury. I wish him the best of luck in the future and hope he finds a spot on another team elsewhere this year (just not Minnesota). : )

Harris would be a terrible fit at Safety. No way that happens here or anywhere else. He’s too slow and it takes him from his strengths, which is his physical play at the line of scrimmage at the CB position.

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Nov 8, 2010 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

"TT only cuts the veterans in favor the young guys if those young guys are ready to take over the role."

And sometimes he’s wrong. Again, I don’t think Shields should get benched for Harris. But you can’t tell me there are 53 better guys on the roster. I don’t buy it. There’s fallout to this decision in the locker room to.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

So what is Harris’ role? He won’t crack the starting lineup. YOu think he’s okay with playing ST and being the 4th or 5th corner in the rotation? Even with that, do we even know if he’s any better? We know nothing.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

And at his 6M contract it makes no sense.

Not going to pay your #4 CB 6M per season… Harris may have asked for his release when told he would be the dime CB or the Packers weren’t willing to pay him 6M for dime CB…

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Keeping him wouldn't have cost them 6 million.

They’ve already paid him over half his salary this year. It would have cost them about 2 million.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

its not about the money

TT has oodles of it

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 8, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

If there was such thing as "enough money"

Bill Gates would have retired long ago. But apparently there isn’t, and NFL teams love to make them some money!

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 12:35 AM CST up reply actions  

he does? Packers have pretty small pockets.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Who cares what his role is?

They could leave him inactive every week for all I care, but pay his salary and keep him off a competitor’s roster, and let his friends on the team at least recognize the fact that you paid him through the end of the year. He’s owed 2 million over the balance of the season. The organization doesn’t need the money, and that’s worth keeping a potential upgrade out of Minnesota, for example.

Strohman, i.e., Thompson’s publicist, says he may have asked for his release. Harris’ quotes didn’t sound like a guy who asked for his release to me. If he did, then I have less of a problem with it, but otherwise I don’t understand a decision that keeps marginal talent on the roster, potentially annoys players you’re relying on, and leaves open the possibility that a competitor will get to upgrade their defensive backfield for the price of a waiver claim or a vet’s minimum. That doesn’t make sense to me.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if Harris asked!

I haven’t had a chance to read a thing about it yet!!! Speculating… Mostly I think it has to do w/ not wanting to pay the dime CB whatever his salary is!!!

IMO, none of the teams in the NFC North would take Harris… He is a Press Man CB, and all the team in our division play the tampa cover 2… except maybe Detroit, not sure what coverage they play w/ Schwartz!

I don’t see how releasing Harris hurts or annoys the other players! He hasn’t done anything THIS year and thats all that matters to the players in the locker room!!!

At this point after his injiury I don’t think Harris is an upgrade to the Packers and most other teams!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd argue your point about it not annoying players in the locker room

by suggesting that it could if players felt that Harris was treated unfairly by the organization.

Now, I’m not saying any of this actually happened, but suppose promises were made to Harris towards the end of training camp about his place on the team after coming off of the PUP list. Now the Packers renege on the promise and release him due to a numbers game/young talent at the position/contractual reason/whatever. Add to that that Harris had been with the team for a fairly long time (in football years), and some players/friends on the team may be upset with management with how the situation was handled.

Again, that previous paragraph was entirely speculation, but I could see scenarios where this creates some friction in the locker room.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 8, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Teams don't make "promises" to players about roles

Too much depends on how players are playing! and how the season is unfolding!

There was nothing wrong w/ the way the Packers handled the situation! They put him on PUP cuz he wasn’t fully recovered and were on the hook for him until he was healthy. Beyond that, or once healthy, they aren’t obligated for more!

Packers always take lockerroom feeling seriously! If this were going to cause friction that way, they would address it front and center to put it to rest, IMO.

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe promises was too strong of a word

Let me put it this way: I don’t think any of us seriously considered that Harris would be released by the team this year (willing to be corrected if I’m way off base on this). I’d imagine the players would be of a similar mindset. I could see it ruffling feathers that the Packers hung on to a player for the first half of the season, didn’t use him, and kicked him to the curb (using this as a very pessimistic view of what happened, not my feelings). I could see thoughts occurring along the lines of “Why didn’t they give him an injury settlement and release him at the start of the season if they weren’t going to play him? They did that for Blackmon.”

I agree that locker room reaction was most likely taken into account in the decision, but that isn’t the end-all-be-all for roster moves like this either.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 8, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Expect

I didn’t expect it either…

In effect the Packers did give him an injury settlement. They paid him his salary until he was healthy to be released. In effect the money he got paid on PUP was his injury settlement. If he wasn’t healthy I think they would be obligated to put him on IR wouldn’t they?

Blackmon got the injury settlement until he was healthy and that seems to be the same as what Harris just got… He got paid till healthy!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't really know how injury settlements work I guess

I think the advantage of the injury settlement vs. PUP list is that the player can get back on the field whenever with the settlement. I’m not saying players would think he got screwed financially, just with regards to playing time.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 8, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Injury settlement

Is for however many weeks it will take before he’s healthy. Until healthy the player isn’t allowed to sign w/ anyone. At least thats how it seems from what I read.

Kinda like putting him on IR , but only until healthy, then he is released.

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

The other benefit to injury settlement

Is that he wouldn’t have been placed on waivers and would have been free to sign with any team.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

You could be right...

… but if I were MN I’d either put in a claim or hope he clears waivers. He’s motivated and shown more in his career than some of they guys they’re running out there ever have.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't deny the D seconday is playing very well to date.

So I don’t see Harris necessarily making it better… Not after his injury.

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

This year's secondary play

has been unexpectedly good. I think that’s part of the reason we didn’t really expect Harris to get cut.

If we had known at the beginning of the year that Tramon Williams would step up, that Shields would prove to be a worthy nickle back , and that our depth players wouldn’t be playing well enough to not be constantly exposed, I doubt we’d be so surprised.

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 12:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Do we know that Harris would have been okay with that? Can we really keep him from playing just for our own selfish reasons??

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Is that a joke?

Exhibit A: Desmond Bishop the last 4 years.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Is that a joke?

But Bishop had been a inexperienced player who, in his limited action prior, had failed to play his assignments correctly and Harris is a 2 time Pro Bowl players coming off a devastating knee injury!!! Can’t even begin to compare the 2 situations!

Huge Fail…

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 9, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Really? Desmond Bishop? That is your example?

Well lets see, he was a rookie that we drafted that never earned his way into the starting lineup. Al Harris was a starter that lost his job to injury (and declining skills IMO). YOu really think those situations are ANYTHING alike?

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

You don’t just move a corner to safety cause he’s too slow to be a safety. Its a totally different skill set. Its a skill set that Woodson has but Harris doesn’t. Harris excelled in the bump with safety help at times over the top. He doesn’t have anything close to the right skill set to play safety.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 8:37 AM CST up reply actions  

He will

I would be shocked if he doesn’t make it. He played at the top of his game for most of his career here and made some important plays for us. In fact today I promised my wife that when he is inducted we would find a way to get tickets to that event.

by PackApologist on Nov 8, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions  

what if the Vikings sign him though? :-)

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Wasn’t there a QB at one point too?

Remember when they tried to sign Kampman the year before he broke out for us??? What a disaster that would have been!!

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

NO

There could never be a quarterback who we loved and cherished who would decide to play for the vikings. That’s to evil, to wrong. I’d be like Ditka coaching the Packers (shutter).

by Smeefers on Nov 8, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

for no reason whatsoever.

Wisconsin, proudly throwing the Big Ten into chaos since the beginning of time.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 8, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I get it, but it still makes me sad :(

Thanks for the memories Al! Hopefully, we’ll see you in the Packer HoF :)

by PackerGirl on Nov 8, 2010 7:57 AM CST reply actions  

Wow. And I thought he was coming back soon.

Guess his knee must really be in bad shape. I will ALWAYS remember the pick six he had against the SeaChickens in 04. The guy had heart and when teamed with Woodson made a hell of a DB duo. I doubt the Viqueens would pick him up for anything other than spite due to his salary and health, but I hope he comes back to Green Bay as a cornerbacks coach one day.

When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.

by P-Townfan on Nov 8, 2010 8:00 AM CST reply actions  

Al Harris as coach

I like that idea. A DB coach with dreads would be respected by our many-dreaded DBs.

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 12:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I always had an irrational hatred for Al Harris

But I sure did love that Seahawks pick-six, and I’m sad that he won’t get a chance to see the field again with the Packers. Good luck, Al.

by Cheeseandcorn on Nov 8, 2010 8:08 AM CST reply actions  

never hated him but..

i almost blame him as much as favre for the loss to the giants in the nfc championship game in 08..plaxico destroyed him

by tmoneyttime1 on Nov 8, 2010 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Plaxico destroyed a lot of CBs that year

And the game was ours to lose in OT. There were no Packer receivers anywhere NEAR where brent threw the football… only Corey Webster. Didn’t look like an accident in my book (sorry for the mini-rant).

"Your wife swallows pineapples for donkey rides." - Orbit gum commercial

by mike_o on Nov 8, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

crappy coaching

They should have rotated a safety over the top to help out. They didn’t. Al had decent coverage on a bunch of those completions. It was a well thrown ball to a guy who’s like 5 or 6 inches taller than he is.

On the pick you reference, Donald Lee was WIDE OPEN in the middle of the field. Brett had his mind made up that he was going to DD before the snap.

by gern blanston on Nov 8, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Bob Sanders...Fail

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Nov 8, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

This kinda killed my Packer mojo for the day.

Came into work feeling great about last night’s game against the Boys.

Now I feel kinda deflated after finding out they are cutting one of my favorite players.

I figured this bye week would give Al the time he needs to get ready for the stretch run and help out this team. I wish he could have at least gotten out to play a little bit this year. I imagine the home crowd would have given him a pretty loud ovation.

I’ll miss seeing those dreads out on the field, Al. I hope you get a chance with another team. I just hope it’s not the Purple.

...in accordance with the prophecy.

by Twins4Life on Nov 8, 2010 10:33 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed.

I found myself wishing some ex-Packers to do poorly (e.g. Walker, McKenzie, Ahmad Carroll….hate that guy) but these last two in Kampman and Harris have handled the situation superbly, wish nothing but the best to both.

By the way, how’s Kampman doing this year?

by msc32887 on Nov 8, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

He’s been alright. He’s on a TERRIBLE D though so I think there is only so much he can do. Their secondary is a total siv.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Sad to see him go.

He’s been one of my favorite Packers over the past several years. It’s sad to see him go. I’m not surprised at all, and I think it was the correct decision. But I still hate to see him playing for another team.

To be honest, I hope he retires. I’d hate to see him playing for someone like Buffalo getting burned for big plays, not having really regained form.

by MikeDB on Nov 8, 2010 10:56 AM CST reply actions  

Just saw the confirmation from Thompson

sorry guys. Hey, if the 49ers (or any other team) were to pick Al up would he be a somewhat viable Nickel option for a team with a struggling secondary?

Troy Smith is the MVP.............of the 4th Q of the Denver game.
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 8, 2010 11:32 AM CST reply actions  

or, at minimum

as a leader/mentor to the rest of the secondary?

Troy Smith is the MVP.............of the 4th Q of the Denver game.
Nitwitter

by Tre9er on Nov 8, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he'd be a good leader

He is known to be a class act with a great work ethic. He’s strictly a bump-and-run corner, though – his zone play leaves a lot to be desired. I don’t think anyone outside the Packers organization really knows how well he can still play. He seemed to be slipping the last few years before the injury, and a bad knee injury at 36 can be pretty devastating.

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 12:46 AM CST up reply actions  

It's really hard to say at this point

He really tore his knee up last year. I’m of the mind that TT wouldn’t have released Harris if he was anywhere close to his former self. My gut tells me he wouldn’t be a viable nickel back for you.

It depends on what kind of scheme you run as well. If you guys are bump-and-run heavy, it could be a possibility. If you play more zone coverage, I’d say he won’t be successful for your team.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 8, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Depends

On how his knee is doing. It was destroyed. The pack would probably have kept him if he could have played nickle. He’s a leader for sure if that’s what your looking for, but most leaders need to be on the field to lead. He was a solid bump and run cover corner. He’s lost a lot of his speed in recent years and he hasn’t taken a snap in almost a year.

by Smeefers on Nov 8, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

hmm…maybe its a chance worth taking but I really don’t see him being much of a force. If someone brings him in expecting him to shore up a secondary I think they’ll be disappointed. I hpe I am wrong cause I like Harris and would like to see him leave on his own terms but I really think at this point he probably doesn’t have much left.

by TrevorR on Nov 8, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Will be missed..

I think this is why Thompson is a real good GM. He doesn’t hang on to guys that are past their prime and he usually has a good young guy waiting in the wings..

Sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by White92 on Nov 8, 2010 12:35 PM CST reply actions   3 recs

+!

Give that man a rec’d!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 11:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Done

TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!

by NorthStarr on Nov 9, 2010 3:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I hit him up with a rec too!

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:16 AM CST up reply actions  

thanks..:)

not often people agree with me..haha

Sometimes nothin is a real cool hand.

by White92 on Nov 9, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Harris

This move was to save money to sign tramon williams to a new contract. And plus harris is not going to play on special teams. Which a 3rd or 4th corner has to be able to do.

by Rodgers on Nov 8, 2010 1:40 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

That's laughable.

The money they saved by releasing Harris doesn’t begin to offset what Williams will get.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I would tend to agree w/ rodgers above.

and it makes no sense whatsoever to pay Harris 6M, or whatever his salary is, to be the dime CB! That money can be MUCH better spent on paying Williams!!! If you don’t think teams think like that thats you opinion, but I certainly think they do!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

2-3M is not going to make or break negotiations with Williams

I believe that is TSSC’s point.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 8, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

This isn't baseball and these aren't the Brewers.

They aren’t operating with a tight budget. Far from it. Paying Harris the balance of his salary this year isn’t an either/or circumstance with Williams potential extension.

And it’s 2 million, or a little more. Not 6.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

6M per, for half the season about 3M more.

They were obligated to pay him until he was fully recovered. But given the choice they didn’t have to pay another 3M for a dime CB! I know its not an either or situation. But if they save 3M on Harris they then have more room to negotiate guarenteed money into Williams deal. The guarenteed money is reallly all that matters. Yearly salaries aren’t guarenteed, so they mean litlle. Its about upfront money in negotiations! Saving 3M on Harris may mean they can give Williams a little more signing bonus!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I really think

Saving 3M on Harris will have no effect on the deal given to Williams.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 8, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm just saying it could on the signing bonus. Not the total compensation.

Teams also have take into account the total salary going to each position. The more important the position and the more players needed at that position is something they consider… Salary structure I believe is what they call it.. Don’t know that it played into Harris being released or not though.

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Who cares what sport it is…money saved is money saved. You forget that owners (and in our case management) have money put aside for salaries and contracts…someone actually PAYS this money. So yes, freeing up 2-3 million DOES actually leave more money on the table for other players.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Except it's not 2-3 million...

… and they’ve already got the money to sign whomever they want.

It’s 1.25 million, for about the 10th time.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

It won’t pay for the whole salary but it certainly frees up more money for other players on the team who will contribute a lot more than Harris would have.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, because the hundreds of millions they have in the reserve fund is just monopoly money.

Let’s stop acting like the Packers are getting a new visa to pay their mastercard bill. 1.25 million (which is what cutting Harris saved them) is probably what they make off parking in a sparsely attended preseason game.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

YOU are the one pretending its monopoly money man. I am the one valuing what 3 million dollars is. You are the one acting like its petty change when its not. You don’t think money had anything to do with that decision? Ridiculous

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:21 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not 3 million.

It’s 1.25 million. And that’s barely more than spare change to a successful NFL franchise like the Packers. I don’t think the money is anything more than an excuse, though I haven’t seen anyone from the team offer it as a reason. The point is that the Packers aren’t operating on the margins of profit and loss. They’re paying in to the revenue sharing fund, for crying out loud. If this were baseball and we were talking about a small market team that actually loses money, or if you were talking about the Bills or a franchise like that in the NFL, then I could see where it would be a factor. In this case with this team, it either wasn’t a factor or it shouldn’t have been, because 1.25 million isn’t enough to trump the football decision.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

OK, so it wasn't money!

So why else then would the Packers release him? Only answer left is that they think he’s done and can’t play after the injury/surgery/rehab… Either way why would you keep him on the team if he can’t play?!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 9, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

What are you talking about?

The point is that the Packers aren’t operating on the margins of profit and loss.

Umm…yeah…they are. In fact they are the only team that actually reports theirs and last year they were JUST profitable. I am not saying that they are cutting him JUST to free up the money. I am saying that with what he’s making and what he can provide they decided to keep on someone that they owe less to who can contribute to the team as a 5th corner and a ST player. Harris brings nothing to the table and his salary wasn’t helping the situation any.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I disagree Mr. Rodgers

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 8, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

these comments are confusing

Harris was done before he tore his knee. I never expected him to come back after the emergence of Sam Shields. I will miss him though.

4 hours 5 minutes? Is that all? Buehrle coulda pitched three CGs and the bottom of the 14th in Houston by then. FTMFYITA! - RWShow

by blackoutsox on Nov 8, 2010 2:45 PM CST reply actions  

I dont' think he was done before his knee injury.

He wasn’t as good as he was previously, but he wasn’t done. He’d be a nice guy to have if one of our top 3 corners get hurt, is all I’m saying. And a good guy to have in the locker room. I’m sure he was frustrated, but it’s not like he was poisoning the locker room from anything I’ve heard.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

For those few games last year when Harris and Williams were the cover guys and Woodson was free to play the rover, our defense was amazing. Still think his injury is what kept the Packers from going deep into the playoffs last year. My guess is he’s healed, but just not as fast as he was. Maybe it’s possible by next year to be at game speed, but then again, he is 36. Thompson gave him every chance to come back by stashing him on the PUP and paying most of his salary for the year. I guess he just wasn’t as good. Makes me pretty sad.

by Mr. Saturn on Nov 8, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

That's true.

But I’d rather not find out with him covering James Jones.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I am with him…I didn’t think he was DONE but I did think his best days were behind him. He was clearly declining last year!

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought he was actually playing ok last year.

I thought he functioned in Capers system better than I had anticipated. He had blow up days where he got lit up by WRs, but that’s why I’m not suggesting he was anything other than insurance.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Yup...he played OK

Not great…not even well above average. He had gone from a pro bowl corner to an OK corner. Call it the system, call it skills declining either way, he wasn’t playing at an elite level or even a very good level. I saw him getting burned more often and just not being the same Al that I loved for all those years.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I won't argue that.

I don’t exactly agree, but it’s close enough to what I think that it’s not worth arguing about. But he was better than some of the DBs that are still on the roster. That’s all I’m saying, and that’s why I don’t like the decision.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Without igniting flame wars

The same decision was made a couple of years ago with another *B position where the senior was debateably still better than the replacement. If you don’t ever quit when you’re ahead you’ll always end up behind.

by Danwood on Nov 9, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

False choice again. That's a fine argument...

… if the choice is between Player A and his backup, if the guy you’re keeping over the old guy is better or will develop. That’s certainly true of Williams and Shields, and by no means am I suggesting either should have been benched for Harris. I’m suggesting it’s not true of our 4th, 5th and 6th CBs currently on the roster (some of them masquerading as safety depth). And it’s not true of our 3rd Fullback either. Harris should have been kept around and paid as an insurance policy because he’s smart enough to be better than the alternatives if one of our top 3 CBs go down. If you’re going to keep depth in places where the player is unlikely to see the field, it should be at positions where inadquate depth can prematurely end your season. And we aren’t going to lose a game because we didn’t have a 3rd FB on our roster, by way of example.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

He actually had a point though. Favre would have CLEARLY been better than the guys behind Rodgers but he wouldn’t have been okay with being #2 or #3. Some of that probably comes into the picture here too. Would Harris be okay being a Dime or the 5th guy? Probably not.

He has a LOT of things against him (pay, experience, lack of ST, injury)…its kind of like the guy that is just too overqualified for a job.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok.

Favre would have been poison in the locker room. Would Harris? If he would have been, that’s a good argument for cutting him regardless of his ability once you make the decision not to play him regularly. Someone mentioned chemistry before (though they meant it differently). If Harris would have caused a problem in a locker room, then I understand releasing him, but I don’t see any suggestion of that from the coaches, who all but admitted they were keeping lesser players because they were younger.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Saying

Theres an old saying in the NFL… “Better to get rid of a player a year too early than a year too late!” Keeping him would have been a year too late!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 9, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

...He said after saying
None of us know for sure what Harris has left after that knee injury!

You can’t play that card and then turn around and say that keeping him for the rest of this year could have been getting rid of him a year too late.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Which would be a fine point if you were going to play him regularly.

It’s only a year too late if he’s worse than the guy he’s replacing.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I would bet you a million dollars that...

We will see a quote from Charles Woodson in the next few days denouncing this move.

…and he’ll be right. To succeed consistently in the NFL, a team NEEDS 3 cornerbacks, and it’s nice to have 4. If they were concerned about STs, they could’ve made Al the nickel guy and told Shields “just be patient, your time is coming,” putting him on ST and as the dime CB. You’re telling me that a guy who was an undrafted FA 4 months ago is going to be upset by that??

No, mark my words, we will rue the day that we cut Harris. Jarrett Bush will be playing defense for us at some point this year, either because of injury or when a team spreads us out like the Steelers and Cardinals did last year. And, when that happens, the defense will fall apart like a house of cards. All the guys who are holding things together with scotch tape and elbow grease right now will check out.

This was a stupid move. Even if he could’ve only given us a couple games at the end of the year, that would’ve been worth keeping him for.

by Curly Lambeau on Nov 8, 2010 5:28 PM CST reply actions  

If 1 of our top 3 CB's get injured for a while, then this move may hurt

but again, it goes back to how healthy Al is. You said a consistent team needs 3 CB’s….we HAVE 3 CB’s that are good. Williams and Woodson are playing great. Shields has been playing amazing considering his lack of experience at CB. Like others pointed out, the #4 CB needs to be someone that can contribute to Special Teams.

If an injury does occur in the secondary though, this may hurt us. Again, it MIGHT hurt us. I don’t think Al is done, he still has some juice left in the tank, but he certainly isn’t a better option over Williams or Shields right now. Yes, I prefer Shields over Harris.

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Nov 8, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions  

This has been a tough wave for me

because there’s the emotional side of watching Al for the past 7 years as a good CB. But at the same time he’s coming back from a completely destroyed knee so there’s no way to know what he’s going to be able to do and he does NOT deserve the starter spot over Tramon at this point. And I don’t know if I’m ok w/ setting Shields back in develop to be on the bench for a guy whos got 1 or 2 years left… again he’s 36 coming off of a destroyed knee… not injured or sprained but completely destroyed.

Is it sad to see Al Harris go? Yes… was it the right move in the best interest of the football team? again as sad as it is to say, Yes

But we currently have 3 starting CBs on the roster and Jarrett Bush has looked decent in limited action… If one of our CBs went down I’d feel a lot better with Jarrett as a nickle back this year then I did last year

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Rue the day?

Clearly you already rue the day!!! I am not at all concerned about this move in any way shape or form! Harris is very much an unknown to us fans… The FO and coaches know what he can do alot better and have a much better idea of any potential lockerroom implications. ANd I’m sure the move to release Harris has already been discussed w/ the team by the FO and coaches! I don’t see ANY problems coming from it.

Nothing wrong w/ the play of any of the top 3 CB to warrant giving Harris the nickel spot and the dime hasn’t been a problem either from what I remember!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Like I said... You watch.

Woodson will publicly disagree with this move. It’ll happen within a couple weeks.

Also, the game that ends our season will feature us getting beat repeatedly by multiple wide-receiver sets. I realize this now; you will realize it later.

by Curly Lambeau on Nov 9, 2010 1:18 AM CST up reply actions  

So what?!!

Woodson is a little outspoken about what he thinks the Packers should do… He’s never backed down from voicing his opinion, but that has never affected his play or the locker room negatively! Let Wood say his opinion!!! If he does it won’t matter on the field or in the lockerroom either!!!

BTW – What ended our season last year was running into a QB who was hotter than Rodgers! AND the fact that Whisenhunt the Cards coach, knew the Packers D schemes better than any other coach in the NFL, except maybe Pitts! You remember Pitts last year don’t you? They were the other team that ripped the Packers D to shreds!!! Is it coincidence that the 2 teams w/ the most intimate knowledge of Capers and his schemes are the 2 teams that had field days vs our D? HARDLY!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 9, 2010 3:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Who's to say

that Harris wouldn’t be one of the players getting burned by multiple WR sets?

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 7:21 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll say it again...

… who would you rather have thrown into the defensive backfield late in the year after an injury? Al Harris or Jarret Bush?

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 7:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I can't answer that

Because we have no idea what Harris looks like right now.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 7:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I guess that's where we differ.

Because I think an old, rusty, injured Harris is better than Bush. The articles I’ve read say he’s got full range of motion. His game was never speed anyway. I know Bush plays special teams and does it fairly well, so I’m not even suggesting cutting him. I’m suggesting that keeping Harris on the roster as an option if Woodson, Williams, or Shields goes down looks a lot smarter to me than keeping a 3rd full back.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:11 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

well if they are both getting burned, I’d rather it be Bush. I already dislike him and he at least woudl be helpful on ST. I’d rather think fondly of Harris’ time here than watch him get burned repeatedly and start to really hate him like I did Bawoh Jue :-)

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Very good points

I guess my counter argument would be that Harris doesn’t fit Caper’s scheme as well as some of our other guys do. Of course to be my own devil’s advocate, Caper’s has certainly shown the ability to make adjustments based on personnel available, so he would most likely find a way to properly use Harris if it came to that.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

its not just that simple

Theres alot of other things to consider. Mainly that Bush is a Core ST player and a very good one too… Is Harris going to start playing ST? Not hardly!!! Always more to it than black and white!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 9, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

You'll also notice

That in TSSC’s subsequent post he said he wasn’t suggesting that the Packers cut Bush to activate Harris.

My understanding of TSSC’s position is that the Packers should have released one of our FB (I’m assuming Hall, personally I’d like to keep Johnson) to make room for Harris. I think that’s a reasonable view point, and not the one that you are arguing against.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

FB

So he wants to release another ST player for a player that won’t play ST!!! Same arguement either way!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 9, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes

Where would we be on ST without Korey Hall? Really?

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

So who are they cutting then?

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Did anyone read the

jason wilde interview w al today? He sounds bitter and his agent sounds bitter saying that al has been running with the 1s in practice for 3 weeks. Al went on to say that he was ready and thought he’d go against minnesota and that he believes the decision was made before he even began practicing oct. 19, 2 days after the dolphins game.

I love Al but I don’t buy that. Until today the Packers have paid Harris his nearly $6m salary so about $3m to basically get healthy and see if you can come back. Then they really tested him in practice once off the pup. On the other hand Sam Shields was playing well and he is seemingly getting better by the week. Then last night Shields had a beautiful pick and he even caught a kickoff! If you believe McCarthy this was a roster decision made this morning. Possible right? Maybe Shields put the nail in the coffin of Al-nickelback last night and maybe MMTT are not willing to use a roster spot on a 4th cb who doesn’t play st. I have to think this was pretty much the deal especially because we have no idea how al looks, only they do. I guess what I’m trying to say is I…I trust Ted Thompson. There I said it.

If you don't know the cadence of GO PACK GO your opinion doesn't matter
--John Jurkovic

by sidtheelf on Nov 8, 2010 8:13 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Im sorry but we are one injury away in the secondary to going back to last years playoff game against AZ where Jarrett Bush was on the field. We got guys on our roster that really should be on the practice squad right now and you’re gonna tell me that they have no room on the roster for a guy like Al Harris, who spent years shutting down opposing no. 1 WRs all game long. He brings the physicality, and veteran leadership that many guys on this roster do not possess. Al Harris is one of my favorite player and him and Woodson formed a shutdown duo. I think its wrong to just let a guy like that go who has done so much for this team.

by Katsuya89 on Nov 8, 2010 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it's wrong

to take a guy who wants to and deserves the right to keep playing the game if he can and make him sit on the bench until one of our 3 other CB’s goes down, especially when he’s not a STer and he doesn’t have the skill set to go to safety (and even then he’d be 3rd on that list as well)

People are having a hard time separating emotion from sense in this move. Jarrett Bush has looked decent in his time this year (and I’m one of his biggest opponents), and you can’t give Al a starting job over Tramon or Shields as the nickle-back. By this logic, we should’ve kept Brett Favre on the roster 3 years ago to back up Aaron in case he went down instead of trading him

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 10:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Harris didn't retire. Favre did.

Bad example. The team is better with Harris on the roster than it is without, in my opinion. Regardless, this was handled poorly.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 8, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

It was more of a comparision

about keeping someone overpaid on the team who is never going to play or really contribute unless there’s a big injury but I can see where that’s a bad example… I was just reaching for the most asinine thing I could at the time.

But how does this comparison work instead, we should keep 2 punters or Long snappers on the team… They won’t ever get to play and their taking up a roster spot… but at least we have a backup ready in case our starter goes down

I just think it’s hard to justify a roster spot for a guy who was starting to decline before completely destroying his knee and won’t contribute to the team unless someone gets injured.

by Goldenarmadillo4 on Nov 8, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Alright...

… then what about a 3rd QB (jeez, do we even have a 3rd QB?) or our 3rd FB?

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 7:19 AM CST up reply actions  

He's on the PS I thought?

So that wouldn’t make a difference with respect to the 53-man roster.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

emotion vs sense

Thats the problem w/ just about any decision the fans don’t get! I don’t get too emotionally attached to most players, so I don’t suffer that particular affliction! Only a few players that I really get attached too. This one, and the whole Favre (created by Favre) fiasco clearly fall into this category!

Get attached to the team, not the players!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 8, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree to a point

Get attached to a team, not the players – to a point. I think it’s okay (and fun) to have an emotional connection to players as well, but no player is above the team.

An analogy: I think most communists will tell you to follow communism, not Stalin; and most capitalists will tell you to follow capitalism, not Ferdinand Marcos.

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 1:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Ahman Green

Is my favorite All time Packer! I wasn’t upset when he left! It was a business decision that was in the best interests of Ahman and the Packers! Wish the players well when they leave and move on… Not worth getting upset or anxious over!

Same here w/ Harris… I like him, but its the business side of football and in business you leave emotions out of decisions!!!

You've been Stroh'd!!!

by Strohman on Nov 9, 2010 3:35 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

And, it's going to be more of the same with Driver, too.

TT bashers - turning my stomach since 2005!
The glass is way more than half-full!

by NorthStarr on Nov 9, 2010 3:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Its nice getting to agree with you once and a while!

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Also, just because you don't agree with those who think we should have kept Harris...

… doesn’t mean we have the opinion we have because we’re emotionally attached to Harris.

By the way, according to the Journal Sentinel, the balance of Harris salary for the rest of the year is 1.25 million. And we could have cut him in the offseason to avoid paying next year’s salary. 1.25 million is peanuts in the NFL. He might even get claimed on waivers.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 7:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Huh…well I guess that tells us a lot about where his play was at.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Unless they're wrong.

I’ve got a feeling we’re going to find out one way or the other.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 9, 2010 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I am not too worried.

Honestly his play was declining…this was a MASSIVE injury and he is 36 for petes sake.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

His agent is just positioning him to get picked up or to get a nice contract somewhere. That is his job.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

One of the concerns about cutting Harris

It seems lots of us are concerned about our depth if we get another injury in the defensive backfield. I agree this is a concern, but wouldn’t Harris be considered the most likely player in the defensive backfield to get injured?

I think we’ll know a lot more in the next few days or weeks about this transaction. If no one picks him up, maybe it means he’s finished. If he gets picked up, we’ll have to see how he plays.

In the meantime, I’m still not giving up hope that he clears waivers and re-signs with the Packers, but I understand why the Packers are probably saying goodbye.

"We've got Hank Baskett"

by I voted for Kodos on Nov 9, 2010 1:07 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed. He seemed really pissed.

by packallday555 on Nov 9, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I’m just not sure what to think about this. Initially, my knee jerk reaction was “Are you fucking serious!?”. I wasn’t happy about it but after reading some of the opinions here and thinking about it a bit more I’ve changed my mind to a degree. If he just isn’t healthy or wasn’t looking up to par in practice, then I can understand the move but something tells me that neither of those are the case.

I think the big reason is the play of Shields, which I understand. I also understand that paying him $1.25 million is a lot of money for the position he would be playing (dime) but I still think it would have been worth the cap hit. I think what worries me most about releasing him, is if one of our guys go down. Say Williams or Shields goes down, then we’ve got Bush on the field as a nickel and Underwood as a dime. Obviously not ideal. And even if no one does go down, I still think it would be a good thing to have a gritty, veteran guy as the dime back.

by packallday555 on Nov 9, 2010 10:35 AM CST reply actions  

When is the deadline for his waiver claim?

Should be soon, it is only a 24 hour time frame to do so.

by Bush League All Star on Nov 9, 2010 11:35 AM CST reply actions  

I think its the end of the day. They release the waiver list at the end of the day, not when he’s actually dropped. You should hear right around 3 pm central time just like with the Moss stuff last week.

by TrevorR on Nov 9, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Big Picture decision

MM has called this move a big picture decision. What that means to me is that Al’s price tag of whatever sows the seeds of discontent for guys like Shields, probably minimum deal, and Tramon when Al was clearly not going to take their jobs. There’s no way Tramon should be making less than Al, who would be for arguments sake the dime back that doesn’t play ST like most every other dime back in the league.

I think the locker room harmony/chemistry is exactly why they did this.

by gern blanston on Nov 9, 2010 3:37 PM CST reply actions  

So Harris was cut

Because he’s making more than Williams and Shields? First of all, Williams signed a RFA tender of $3.168 million for 2010, so his base salary is more than Harris this year, not to mention they’re negotiating a contract extension, so I highly doubt Tramon would give two craps. And an undrafted rookie nickel QB is going to have his feelings hurt by Harris making more than him? If anything he should be upset that Bush/Lee/Underwood are making more than him, and you don’t see TT cutting them.

So to sum up, no. I don’t think that’s what MM means by a “Big Picture decision.”

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure where else to put this

But Al Harris has cleared waivers

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 4:05 PM CST reply actions  

Oh dear, how did we let a talent like that go

A player with so much upside and talent that 31 teams didn’t think he was worth the million or so he was due.

by Danwood on Nov 9, 2010 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that has more to do with

the fact that teams can now bring him in to see how he has recovered. Any team claiming him off of waivers would be signing him essentially sight unseen, which would not be a wise move with a 36 year old coming off of a major knee injury.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Right, but they were still gambling that none of the other 30 would take him sight unseen

And if it’s someone with as much talent as people have claimed on here, why would you take that chance?

by Danwood on Nov 9, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I really don't think it's that big a gamble

Frankly, I think it would be irresponsible for a team to claim a 30-something year old player who destroyed his knee 12 months ago without working him out first.

Towlieppan: "You wanna throw high?"

by GoGregGo on Nov 9, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

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