Rumored Trade: Antonio Cromartie For A Running Back
by Brandon on Feb 18, 2010 7:45 AM CST
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintChris Mortenson is killing me. From ESPN.com:
The Chargers are exploring possible trade scenarios that include dealing cornerback Antonio Cromartie to acquire a running back, according to league sources...
Several teams are looking for cornerback depth, including the Green Bay Packers, sources said.
You can read all about Cromartie's excellent coverage skills over at Bolts From The Blue, but another thing mentioned is that his tackling is miserable.
Via Greg Bedard's Twitter is a very funny site (with a lot of annoying flash video) picking on Cromartie's inability to tackle in their playoff loss against the Jets.
I'm a big fan of the switch to the 3-4 defense this season, but the scheme can be exploited on the edges. The cornerback has to provide run support and make open field tackles near the sidelines because there often isn't anyone else around to make the play. This wasn't a problem in 2009 because CB Charles Woodson, CB Al Harris, and CB Tramon Williams can tackle.
I don't know enough about Cromartie to give him a conclusive thumbs-down, but my first impression is that the defense can't afford any poor tacklers and especially not at cornerback.
Plus it would mean trading a running back, and RB Brandon Jackson would be the obvious target. While Jackson did not put up any huge stats in 2009, his contributions as an extra blocker in passing situations was one of the unheralded reasons for the drop in the sack totals as the season went on.
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I would trade Jackson for Cromartie in a second.
We could easily find someone as good as Jackson in the draft or FA.
Selgy
Agreed, Jackson could be replaced pretty easily. Cromartie isn’t as good in coverage as his reputation would suggest either. Check out www.profootballfocus.com – they grade every play for every player during the season and Cromartie hasn’t been doing so well, even though coverage and run support are graded separately
Jackson? Why would they want a guy who couldn’t even keep his job here. Jackson would be a throw in player accompanying a HIGH draft pick. He probably has little value outside of GB.
Grant
I can’t imagine GM Ted Thompson would trade Grant under any circumstances.
So if the Bolts are looking for a RB, who knows, maybe their GM was a big fan of Jackson coming out of college, then maybe they’d consider Jackson plus a mid-round pick for Cromartie. The initial rumor was for Cowboys 3rd string RB Tashard Choice, so Jackson is certainly in a similar price range.
I think Choice has shown me a lot more that he has potential to be a starter. I just haven’t seen that out of Jackson though. You are right though they could have been a fan and maybe value him more than some of us do, but it would take a 3rd rounder with him I think to swing the deal. I just can’t see Jackson as more than a 3rd down back…
cromartie
i still wouldn’t make the trade. he has character issues that the pack shouldn’t deal with, he will be a poision pill in the locker room. chemistry is an undervalued aspect of a football team. the packers have many good character guys, don’t rock the boat.
let’s get a consistent pass rush, then you’ll see how good that secondary can play.
cromartie has 7 children in 5 different states as well…….character issues. the risks far outweigh the rewards———imo.
meh
I’d not lose any sleep in a Jackson-for-Cromartie trade, but I don’t think it does much for either squad. Jackson’s been a considerable disappointment, and Cromartie might not be any better than our #3 CB (assuming Harris is back); and I’d imagine he’d be a considerable distraction if he’s not a starter.
If that deal’s on the table and we’re convinced a change in scenery is all Cromartie needs, then pull the trigger – clearing out room for a new RB might actually be a plus in and of itself. But like others have said, I’m assuming the Chargers wouldn’t have that much interest in Jackson.
I don’t know where jackson come into the picture…but I can’t for the life of me figure out what the Chargers interest would be in him!
Yeah, he wouldn’t be the guy. They would want Grant, not Jackson. Grant’s had a couple of 1,200+ yard seasons. I’m sure they would want our Rb who can actually run a bit as opposed to the one who can come in and be a good blocker.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt they even want Grant.
I mean they might since Grant is decent to above average. But they could easily pick up a comparable back in the draft, and possibly in later rounds. If its Grant, you’re probably sending a 2nd round pick with him to San Diego. Just my guess.
Yeah, I’m with you. Grant is just kind of a serviceable guy. I’m sure a draft pick would go along with it but there is no way it happens if they want a 2nd rounder too.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
See now that is the kind of post I’ve been waiting for you to make. Nice work.
I think you are undervaluing Grant a little bit. He’s not an AP, that is clear, but he’s definitely above average. A second by itself would get Cromartie though so I think you are off a little there. Thanks for contributing though…
That is true.
He’s not an AP, that is clear…
On the flip side, he doesn’t fumble like AP, either.
-
The glass is more than half-full.
Jackson, you ask? And i quote
from the end of the article:
Plus it would mean trading a running back, and RB Brandon Jackson would be the obvious target. While Jackson did not put up any huge stats in 2009, his contributions as an extra blocker in passing situations was one of the unheralded reasons for the drop in the sack totals as the season went on.Believe it or not, were he able to stay healthy (haha, right), Jackson wouldn’t be a bad fit for the Chargers offense, especially as a complement to Sproles (assuming they resign him).
Not to say that Jackson and Cromartie are of equal value. But it’s not utterly absurd for Jackson to be the movable asset, either.
I was hoping for a media source...
You are referring to Brandon’s “article” there though, not a real valid league source with any kind of ins with the team. No offense to Brandon who does a great job with the blog of course. I would say that Jackson would be an absurd asset to move in this situation for a team that says they are looking to move their top CB and are looking for a RB to replace LT. There is no way they would even blink an eye at this unless its accompanied by a pretty high draft pick…2nd or maybe 3rd and another…at least from where I am sitting.
Cromartie is not their top CB
he was in 2007, but he’s been kinda average the past two seasons. He’s apparently a character risk, and he’s obviously not exactly a big fan of contact. Maybe a change of scenery might turn that around, but he’s not exactly a superstar. Perhaps he could have been, or will be, but he’s clearly trending downward the past two seasons.
It’s all scuttlebutt, of course. But I’d think Jackson and a 4th for Cromartie might be a reasonable deal. Maybe a 3rd, but that’d be only if I wasn’t planning on having Harris as one of our top 3 CBs in 2010 (a not unreasonable assumption), and assuming that the Chargers have any interest in Jackson whatsoever. I wouldn’t blame them if they didn’t, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s on the tail end of their list of candidates.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
trade
i heard that thompson was offering only a fourth or fifth round draft pick for him, i dont think he’s willing to give up jackson
I always wonder that too! Doesn’t seem like I can ever find any juicy rumors when I look around.
by packallday555 on Feb 20, 2010 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
It would really be awesome if we made this trade. All of us have been talking about how our team is a big move or two away from being serious contenders. Making this trade would be a big time move, and be a move that would help in our team immediately, as well as in the future.
Just imagine having Woodson, Cromartie, Williams, and Harris as our top 4 Cb’s. We’d easily have the best secondary in the league. We already have a top run defense, and while adding a good OLB would improve our pass defense, so would adding another good Cb.
I know it isn’t likely but if we could give the Chargers Grant and a lower round pick I would hope TT would do it in a second.
I wouldn't give up Grant for Cromartie.
That would leave us with the worst backfield in the league by far.
Selgy
Seattle MIGHT be worse
but only just. I would HATe to see how we did with Brandon Jackson getting all of Grant’s carries considering how few highlights he’s had the last few years in a Packer jersey.
Grant might not have a million highlights, but he gets the good yardage when the Packers need it.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 18, 2010 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe, but it’s not like Rb’s are at a minimum. You really can draft a starter at any point in the draft, and we could pick a FA for cheap that could start. Grant is just serviceable, it’s not like he is a top Rb in the league. Secondary depth is such a huge need for us, as well as replacing Woodson and Harris. Getting Cromartie would be great for us, as he and Williams would be the starters of the future, which would leave us only having to find some depth, which we may actually already have in Lee and Underwood.
Honestly, if we gave Jackson the same amount of carries as Grant this year I doubt there would be much different. Grant is good but he is usually only good when the blocking is really good. He doesn’t always make the first guy miss, or at least not as much as you’d want a starting Rb to do. He doesn’t always run hard, and he can never seem to get playing at his highest level until week 11 or later. I’m not trying to trash Grant, or anything. I like him, I just think he is pretty easily replaceable.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
trade
I would love to see a trade for Cromartie… He has talent and having a chance to work w/ Harris and especially Woodson could do wonders for his game, even tackling…
I don’t think any of our RB would be of much interest for the Bolts. Grant doesn’t fit the blocking/run scheme they use. Jackson is too much like Sproles and not as good.
What pieces do we have that they may want? What is SD deficiency’s??? And work from that aspect, not necessarily a RB…
Yeah…the grant part came about because they have said they are looking for a RB in a trade. You don’t think Grant could have success in their system? I think he’d be a nice fit to run inside the tackles and that would allow them to resign Sproles for third downs and stuff like that. Sproles is exactly the kind of back I’ve been saying we need to accent Grant here. I don’t know much about SD blocking schemes though so I won’t pretend to say much more about that aspect!
SD Blocking
Not 100% certain, but pretty sure they have a man blocking scheme similar to what Ahman Green had in GB prior to McCarthys arrival. I don’t see Grant being able to excel in that scheme… IMO, Grant is pretty much a system RB. He’s a really good fit for the zbs the Packers run, a one cut scheme. In a man blocking scheme it seems to me you have to be a little more ellusive, a la Ahman Green and LT. Grant has nowhere near that kind of elusiveness. Nor does Grant have the power of Green or LT.
A Sproles type RB would be a perfect compliment to Grant though…
I disagree
Grant played with the Giants before being traded to GB and the Giants have man to man blocking. Grant struggles consistently in taking his cutback lanes. I think Grant is more ideal for a man to man blocking scheme. That’s my opinion though.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Play
Grant didn’t play for the giants at all… He was on the practice squad!!! Grant has no real elusiveness in his game, give him a cut and go North/South! He can’t make anyone miss and doesn’t run over anyone!
He’s a good zbs RB, but thats about all… That makes him a scheme RB, IMO!!
Your totally right on this one. Grant is a one cut back, and even his first cut isn’t really that good as I can’t even count the number of times I’ve seen him run into one of OL’s back. Grant really is pretty average. If you look at his better runs most of them came when there was a gaping the hole that a truck could fit through (Long TD run against Bears.)
He’s serviceable, and usually improves at the end of the year but I don’t think losing Grant would hurt us a whole lot.
by packallday555 on Feb 20, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
grant should stay
it sounds to me that many here undervalue grants contributions to the packers offense. he’s a reliable and dependable back that doesn’t put it on the ground. solid and steady is what you want in this offense. we are a pass first team if you haven’t noticed. give up a high character guy for another headache———-imo——-not necessary.
I agree
there are a few reasons why I don’t like the idea and you hit the main two but basically the risks don’t outwieght the rewards.
by Packerfan045 on Feb 19, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
You make it sound like Cromartie has some character issues or something. How is he a headache? In case you don’t recall…Grant held out a couple years ago to get a new contract after HALF of a good season…he’s as much of a headache as Cromartie is I guess.
He has off field issues
and his performances on the field are getting worse.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
A lot of that could be the Chargers lack of pass rush though too. In 2007 Merriman was really good, which allowed Cromartie to shine. Then Merriman sat out in 2008 and the Chargers had only 28 sacks, which ranked as 22nd in the league. In 2009 they ranked 13th in the league with sacks but they had two less sacks then we did. We ranked 11th in sacks but our pass rush still wasn’t very good, and their’s was even worse then ours.
Your right TrevorR, shouldn’t Grant holding out after 9 good games be considered a headache? And after he did get a new contract he failed to show up until the last 6 or 7 games of the season, and then did the same this past year. I’m not saying we should get rid of him but if we have the opportunity to get Cromartie for him and a 4th rounder it’s something we should do in a second.
by packallday555 on Feb 20, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Grant
Grant didn’t hold out!!! He didn’t have a contract and was trying to negotiate as good a contract as he could get… You can’t blame him for that, cuz each of us would do the same thing!!!
There is a HUGE difference between holding out (meaning you have a contract) and not going to camp cuz you don’t have a contract!!! A HUGE difference!!!
I suppose your right but he still was asking for far too much money after having only 9 good games.
by packallday555 on Feb 21, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
You are getting caught up on words…the point is still the same. He came in and started 7 games and wanted money like he had been doing this for years. The way he talks in this article is kind of ridiculous. That was kind of my point. He talked about offers being ridiculous and so insulting when he was being offered like $2 mill a year. The guy had 7 good games. That was my point…I remember thinking that TT better not give into him at the time. He can do it and that is his right (though he WAS restricted) but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect my perception.
He’s been a good boy since then though…and he doesn’t fumble so I don’t mind him too much!
San Diego fans want more than just Grant
Over at “Bolts from the Blue” the Charger fans believe Ryan Grant and a 2nd Round pick for Cromartie and a 5th would be a fair trade. I’m gonna disagree with that considering there are plenty of CB’s we can get that are just as good in the 2nd Round.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Haha ya, no. Maybe Grant and a 5th rounder. Definitely not a 2nd rounder too.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
grant
if grant is replaceable, than so is everyone on the roster except rodgers and woodson. jennings is replaceble and so is matthews according to somes logic.
old saying goes " you don’t appreciate what you have until it’s gone"
I think your way overvaluing Grant here. Sure, he has put up some good stats in his time here but all you have to do is watch him in order to now he is no better then a little above average. Doesn’t have great speed, strength, or quickness. Doesn’t have great vision either, and is a liability blocking and out of the backfield. He is a serviceable guy but not a guy that we couldn’t replace fairly easily.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe??
I don’t know… I think I’ll trade Grant for Cromartie if he came with a second rounder. Then the packers would have the best secondary, period. Then with the second rounder, they can draft a RB like Ryan Matthews. Ryan Matthews is a good back. He’s a little like Grant, but maybe a little faster.
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