QB talk leading to the Super Bowl, and the missing GREAT ONE.

by MikeDB on Feb 7, 2010 12:54 PM CST Comment 25 comments

Of course, there is always TOO much sports talk leading up to the Super Bowl. With Peyton Manning in the game, there is a lot of discussion about whether he might be the best QB of all time. As everyone knows, the argument against him is that he's only won one Super Bowl and doesn't have great record in the playoffs. So QBs like Brady, Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw, etc are mentioned.

But the QB who has won the most NFL championships in history is never mentioned: Green Bay QB, BART STARR. He also won 2 Super Bowl MVPs (one of only 4 multi-MVP winners), and had a 9-1 record in the playoffs.

If they are going to KEEP saying that it is the hardware that really determines greatness, then they should start mentioning Starr every time they talk about QB greats.

PACKER FANS! Start filling ESPN and CBS inboxes with messages telling them to add Starr to the conversation.

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Absolutely

There’s no reason Starr shouldn’t be part of the discussion.

by Brandon on Feb 7, 2010 2:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Prediction... Favre... 3rd best Packer QB .... (Head Line After Aaron Rodgers Retires...!!)

Bart Starr is by far the Best QB in Packer History… So Far… We may have to re-think that once ARod Retires… :) I sure hope so!! He was MY AMERICAN IDOL growing UP!!!! I remember making my MOM Sew Stars on the shoulders of a #15 Jersey when I was 5… (It was after I watched Bart Play in the PRO BOWL…) They had stars on their jerseys… :) Ahhh ~ Great Memory!! Thanks ~

by Bird Dog Uni on Feb 7, 2010 3:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Every chance I get

I try to get Starr’s name into that conversation, usually refering people to two articles over at ColdHardFootballFacts.com:

The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks (January 24, 2008)

When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.

and

The Bart Starr interview (January 26, 2009)

But as we dove deeper into the game, and studied the numbers more intently, a curious pattern in the data – the important data, the data that actually matters, the Cold, Hard Football Facts – began to emerge. In fact, there was Starr’s name everywhere we turned.
He won the most titles (five), he boasted the best postseason record (9-1), and produced the highest postseason passer rating (104.8). We soon realized that these were not coincidences, that the dynastic Packers may have made Starr (as reputation would indicate) but that Starr also made the dynastic Packers (as Cold, Hard Football Fact would indicate).

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The glass is more than half-full.

by NorthStarr on Feb 7, 2010 4:04 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

Bart is THE man

no doubt about it…

Hey hey I got an idea. Lets play "I Never." You got to drink if you did the thing that the person says they never did...

by snibbodmot on Feb 7, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that, after that Bertt Favre imitation,

it is safe to take Manning out of the discussion. Haha.

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The glass is more than half-full.

by NorthStarr on Feb 7, 2010 8:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If Favre isn’t in the discussion, how can they argue that Manning is? He’s regarded for the same reasons Favre was except that he isn’t QUITE as interception prone.

by TrevorR on Feb 7, 2010 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For all the talk about how “important” winning the big game is, its SHOCKING that he isn’t in there more.

by TrevorR on Feb 7, 2010 11:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It really is huh? I started thinking about Manning in big games yesterday, and he really has “blown” quite a few.

by packallday555 on Feb 8, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I personally think the whole super bowl wins aspect is WAY overrated as it IS a team game and QB is ONE position on the field. Someone like Marino shouldn’t be discounted because his front office couldn’t put a team around him. I just think SOME QBs get overrated because their team won a lot of super bowls when really it was more about the overall team rather than HIS abilities.

by TrevorR on Feb 8, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s a great point, and would explain why Manning might not be in that conversation as much.

by packallday555 on Feb 9, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree!

I am not so homeristic as to be blind to my team’s shortcomings. We were not the team of the decade, despite our frequent postseason appearances and 12+ win seasons regularly, because in the end the team only got it all done once. The Pats and Steelers can boast multiple rings this pat decade.

However, that is a team stat and I do not get why some try so hard to make the team accomplishments all about Manning. The guy is one of the greatest ever. If one throws out the team aspect, they might argue Bradshaw>Elway>Dilfer>Marino. However, that is shallow and asinine.

I hope that I never have to se that happen to Rodgers, where the media harasses him over team accomplishments. He is going to be a force in this league a long while. Hopefully he gets multiple rings to boot.

by coltsfanawalt on Feb 9, 2010 1:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

I agree with you. Marino is still one of the best QBs I’ve ever seen play. Manning belongs in that same category, though after the Super Bowl, and the way in which he contributed, Favre-like, to the loss, it does take away some of the shine.

by MikeDB on Feb 9, 2010 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Great point. I knew you'd eventually have one.

And you’ve totally vindicated Favre. How can anyone expect Favre and Driver to carry a team when most of the rest of them are border line scrubs. Have to spend money for talent. That’s the GM’s job. Ted gets an F for effort.

by dsludo on Feb 10, 2010 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no problem vindicating Favre. He’s always been a great QB. I think you are getting our distaste for Favre as a Viking confused with us already knowing that Favre is a great QB. You think you need to argue with me that Favre is a great QB? Did you forget already that he is OUR QB that you borrowed for a year or two? ugh…

by TrevorR on Feb 10, 2010 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you forget already that he is OUR QB that you borrowed for a year or two? ugh…

Many of them have!

by packallday555 on Feb 10, 2010 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ummmm no that's not my point. Any packers fan that doesn't think Favre is good is clueless.

The guy could have won you guys like 4 superbowls if you would have just surrounded him with talent.

by dsludo on Feb 11, 2010 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

still not making a point...

where are you seeing people saying Favre isn’t good? You can’t just make stuff up to make an argument. Something tells me dsludo is about 14 and watching Hannah Montana as he surfs the web.

by TrevorR on Feb 11, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My point is simply this.

Ted Thompson has held your team back.

Something tells me that TrevorR is a 30 year old watching Baywatch reruns in his mom’s basement.

by dsludo on Feb 11, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Alright so you made a point…how would you like to back it? Where is your argument. You just make empty statements that have nothing to back them…which is why no one takes you seriously.

That was a nice comeback by the way…[rolls eyes]

by TrevorR on Feb 11, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn’t have the necessary evidence or knowledge of our team to back it up. He just sees guys like Puddnhead or Starmark make these points and must decide, “Yeah, that sounds good. I’m gonna go with that.”

by packallday555 on Feb 11, 2010 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way…he was surrounded by lots of talent this year…I don’t see any Lombardi Trophy in the vikings empty trophy case now so what is your argument here even based on?

by TrevorR on Feb 11, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As far as WR corps go the Vikings didn’t provide him with anything the Packers haven’t. Rice is no better then Sharpe, Freeman, Walker, or Driver were for us, and like our teams they had some pretty good #2 and #3 guys. Shiancoe is no better then some of the Te’s we provided him with either. And the o-lines are similar as well. Where the Vikings really get us is AP. Ahman Green was great for us, and Ryan Grant was great for Favre in 2007 but they don’t compare to AP. The fact is AP is probably one of the greatest runners the game has ever seen and he is a guy that you have to respect every game.

It’s kinda hard to be mad at our GM for not putting a Rb of AP’s caliber behind Favre because there are only so many of them that have the same kind of talent AP has. (Sanders, Payton, Brown, Dickerson, just to name a few.)

by packallday555 on Feb 11, 2010 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I might argue with that, BUT either way the point of the statement was less about that and more about the fact that his statement was BS. Favre did have some pretty talented offenses around him throughout his career and he only won it once. We had one of the best Olines in the game for YEARS. We had very good runners (not great but very good)…pretty decent WR groups…decent TEs. The entire statement was BS, I just chose to use HIS current team to debunk it!

by TrevorR on Feb 12, 2010 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I know that’s what you were trying to do. I was just simply trying to point out that it wasn’t like he was playing with just average guys here in GB.

by packallday555 on Feb 12, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You obviously don’t know a whole lot about our team dude. We had what was probably the best o-line in the league in front of him from really the late to mid 90s’ up until 2003-2004. He’s had Sharpe, Freeman, Brooks, Walker, Driver and plenty of other guys who are more then capable to work with. He’s always had the plenty talent around him. His problem was he just couldn’t let his gunslinger mentality go. He ALWAYS felt the need to “make a big play” when games we’re close or if he felt games were slipping away, and a lot of the time that resulted in questionable decisions and INTs.

Do you honestly think it’s just a coincidence that the two years he appeared to play “under control” and “taking what the defenses” give him his teams had tremendous seasons? Favre is a great, great Qb and when he plays with that mentality he’s hard to stop. He knows the West Coast offense better then any other Qb in the league, and probably more so then all the coaches who run it. He’s seen every scheme a defense can throw at him, and when you combine that with his physical skills it’s not puzzling as to why he is a great Qb. The only problem is he didn’t always “take what the defense gave them” and didn’t always choose to make the easy play.

After Homlgren left Favre reverted back to his old style of play. Rhodes couldn’t control him and neither could Sherman. Then McCarthy somehow convinced him to play much like he did this year taking what was there, and wouldn’t ya know we went 13-3 and made it to the NFC Championship. Sound familiar?

The reality is your probably taking the whole “Favre didn’t have the talent around him” stance because that’s what some of the TT haters over here are doing and some of the converted Packers fans (really Favre fans) are saying. I don’t know for sure but if I had to guess I would bet you don’t really know diddly squat about our team the past 10-15 years.

And even the whole TT didn’t put the talent around Favre stance is ridiculous if you really think about it. They love to talk about how Favre didn’t have the talent around him because of TT but TT was only GM while Favre was here for 3 seasons. So many of the TT haters seem to praise Wolf but why isn’t the same question of talent being imposed for him? Favre didn’t win from 98’-04’ with Wolf either. Why is that? Did he not have the necessary talent around him? Listening to some of the people talk about TT as GM you would think we won 3 or 4 SB’s in Wolf’s career but that wasn’t at all the case.

And just to clarify I don’t think the talent around him was a problem under Wolf or TT. He had plenty enough around him to win multiple SB’s but year after year we watched him consistently have poor playoff games. This doesn’t mean he isn’t a great Qb, and that’s not at all what I’m saying or trying to imply. Just simply pointing out that too say we didn’t win more SB’s with Favre because he didn’t have the players around him is ridiculous. Donovan McNabb is a guy who hasn’t had the talent around him, though with Jackson and Maclin that looks like it’s changing. Go back and compare the players he had around him over the years to the players Favre had around him. Favre wins easily.

by packallday555 on Feb 11, 2010 9:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs