Which Packer Will Make The Leap Forward Next Season?
by Brandon on Mar 25, 2010 10:00 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintI did not like Mike McCarthy's previous comments on "adversity situations", as if you can game plan for adversity, but he was much more of a realist in some comments on Wednesday morning. From JS Online.com:
Spread offenses had a lot of success against you. Why was that? I think the dime personnel probably wasn’t what we would have liked it to have been in certain segments, I don’t think you can deny that. And you can base some of that on injury.
My only complaint is he mentioned the dime package specifically. The problem with the dime was guys like CB Brandon Underwood, CB Josh Bell, and S Matt Giordano. One of those problems has already been solved. Giordano was waived and has signed with the Falcons. Hopefully he wasn't trying to exclude CB Jarrett Bush, who was the nickel back after CB Al Harris was hurt. Either way, it's clear he knows that certain players have to step it up or he'll find their replacements.
More from JS Online.com:
Which players do you expect to make the biggest advancement this season: T.J. Lang, Brandon Underwood. Those are the two that jump out. You say how can Clay Matthews get better? Well he can get better. Brad Jones is another guy in that category. I really think those rookies, this is their biggest window to make that jump and it’s important and it’s been identified.
It's interesting that Underwood and OL T.J. Lang were the first two players to jump to mind. Neither one is projected to start in 2010. Maybe he expects they'll both be starters eventually, and it might be a hint that the Packers won't be jumping too early to draft an offensive lineman or a cornerback.
Unfortunately he has to go and bring up one of the biggest disappointments in recent years. From the Press-Gazette:
On Justin Harrell: "Justin, this is the best he’s looked in the strength and conditioning part of it."
It's easy to forget about DE Justin Harrell, and I wish they would. While it's possible he resumes his NFL career, I'd put the odds at less than 50%. They should just plan for next year as if he's not coming back, and then if he does return, they've got more depth on the defensive line. They wasted roster spots on guys like OL Breno Giacomini and Giordiano last season, so they can certainly find room for Harrell if he's healthy.
The guy I'll be watching is LB Brad Jones. He's likely to remain the starting OLB no matter who is drafted in April. Hopefully he will become a big part of the defense next season.
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It's always tough to find these players
I’m gonna go with TJ Lang and Pat Lee. I’m not on the Brad Jones bandwaggon. He still needs a couple years on the bench before I’d consider him as a permanent starter. I think most people forgot we have Lee on the roster and will jump out and surprise many with a decent season. A decent season alone is a significant upgrade over Jarrett Bush and Brandon Underwood’s performances last year. I view Underwood as a project player for multiple years as well, so I don’t see him making much of an impact this season. I trust that MM will find a place to start TJ Lang. He did a good job in his rookie season and should be our starting LG. He also provides quality depth at the OT position for now.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
I agree with you on Pat Lee
If he plays well like I expect him to, our dime package will take a big step up from last year.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
Crossing my fingers
I was seriously bummed when Lee was placed on I.R. I’m crossing my fingers on him, and hoping he comes back big in 2010.
Me too. He looked alright in 2008 in all of 5 games (not a great sample size I know). I have some hope for him! Let’s just pray he can stay healthy, and can at least stay in front of his guy sometimes unlike Bush and Bell.
by packallday555 on Mar 25, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Counterpoint: Brad Jones For Sure.
I’m not going to confuse my hopes with my expectations. Everyone hopes TJ Lang will improve as a player and earn a starting position, become the go-to guy. I expect Brad Jones will in fact get better.
I would be very interested to see Lee step up, though, for the obvious reason.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Harrell looks better than ever!
Talk about setting the bar low.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on Mar 25, 2010 6:35 PM CDT reply actions
gotta start somewhere
micro-semi-transient-baby-steps
"I don't know how a guy gets single covered in that situation when you're dropping eight men," Tony Dungy, 12/20/09
I think we’ll see the biggest improvements out of Brad Jones and T.J. Lang. I think Underwood will improve to but he likely won’t be anything more then our dime back/5th Cb so it’ll be hard for him to really show it.
I think Brad Jones is the obvious choice. He came in last year in the middle of the year, and the defense didn’t suffer any consequences. In fact, they actually improved. He was great assignment wise for us last year. His pass rush wasn’t as strong as we would like but it was still relatively good. At least more then you would expect out of a 7th round pick. He played last season at 240 lbs. If he can add some weight and strength to his frame I think his pass rush could improve, and we know systematically, he is going to be very sound.
Lang should improve if he can add some strength to his frame, as well as hopefully taking most of his reps at one position. Whether that position is LG or RT, I don’t really mind. I mean I would prefer to see him at LG just because his skills suit him better their but it’s not like can’t be a good RT as well. I kind of just look at things, and think as long as he is starting I’ll be happy.
Jones and Lee
There are two great knocks on Brad Jones right now:
1. He can’t do the physical play (especially in pass rush) and so he needs to put on some weight.
2. While he’s solid, he’s not a playmaker on the outside.
Well, I think he’ll greatly improve on knock 1 through the offseason program. I haven’t heard anyone say that he can’t put more weight on his frame and adding a bit of strength to his game will help him be a more well rounded player.
As for knock 2, well, that’s tougher. I could wuss out and say you can’t have playmakers at every position, but OLB is a playmaking position in the 3-4. I guess I just have patience with this particular critique. So he plays ok….that’s not the end of the world. He’s a solid starter, and can be a good stop gap until they find the right player to fill in on the other side. Remember, that D did look faster when Jones was in there and not Kampman.
And then Lee, well so many have reported that the dude could of played the last half of the season last year. The Packers were just stupid in putting him on IR too soon. Basically they didn’t want to wait eight or so weeks for him to heal right away and couldn’t put him on the PUP list, so they just moved him to IR right away. So just getting him on the field for 16 games is a massive improvement and will greatly strengthen our secondary.
For your second knock on Jones, I think adding stregth and weight to his frame could help. Not saying he will become Clay if he adds strength but I think it’ll definitely help.
by packallday555 on Mar 26, 2010 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree
Mostly the people who want him to be more of playmaker really want him to put more of a pass rush on. The Bears did a great job of shutting Jones down last year by just out physicaling him. Put some more meat on his bones will help with that. He’s smart enough to do the job, now we just have to put the pads on and see if he can out hit the other guys.
by PackApologist on Mar 26, 2010 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions
this sounds like
HAWK!!!! why is he playing on the inside————wait, got it————he was the #5 pick in the draft .. i’d take 4 brad jones’s over 4 hawks, just look at the money you would save..
I've got a funny feeling about Lang suddenly though....
Something about how the coaches are debating where to put Lang makes me feel uneasy. MM seems to think of him as a guard, but there also seems to be this contingent who wants to make him a RT. I just hope that this sort of flip flopping doesn’t screw up his game. I guess I just think that any flip flopping on the coach’s part could lead to a more likely sophomore slump.
Thinking the same thing. I read an article the other day by Bedard that said Spitz would be allowed to compete with Colledge for the LG job, so I assume this means right now their leaning towards Clifton-Spitz-Wells-Sitton-Tauscher. This is disappointing to me. Wells came in and was alright last year but he was still outmuscled and overpowered by bigger DTs. Spitz is bigger and a better run blocker. I’d love to see him at C, which would also allow Lang to play LG.
I’m hoping for Clifton-Lang-Spitz-Sitton-Tauscher. With Charles Brown or Trent Williams waiting in the wings behind Clifton in case of injury. If Tauscher goes down, then we move Lang to RT, Spitz to LG, and Wells to C.
I really don’t want to see the flip-flopping down with Lang either. It seems like we did that too much with Colledge and Barbre. I don’t necessarily know if it hurt either of them at all but I think it would be hard to move back and forth from positions. After all, Colledge was actually a good LG for us in 2007-08, and then after having to sub in at LT he went on to stink it up at LG. I just don’t want to see the musical chairs game being played anymore with the OL. I think continuity has to be what MM is preaching as far as the OL goes.
by packallday555 on Mar 26, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree with you Packallday:
Clif ~ Lang ~ Spitz ~ Sitton ~ Tausch!
Colledge, Wells, can both be great back-ups at LG & C! Barbre/Smith could back-up Sitton (Hope they don’t play a down! :) That leaves us with LT/RT NEEDS… We need a LT back-up and a RT back-up, because I can’t see Breno G. being that guy at RT! My brain hurts thinking about the possibilities! : ) Would love to see us draft Kyle Calloway in the 4th Round to back-up Tausch! Don’t know who TT is going to get to back-up Clif, as long as he gets someone who CAN! : )
Go Pack!
Maybe we should bail on TJ Lang
I don’t trust this prospect… he hasn’t nailed down any projection on the line and they’re still debating where to put him, what his body type is, etc… the guy is semi-passive and has short arms, this we’ve been over before. A true LT has got to be a beasty-hybrid type player, fast and big, long and strong… how about quick and crafty? Is TJ Lang any of those? To me, he’s like a slightly bigger version of Scotty Wells, versatile yes, but a long term starter? I’m not sure.. hope I’m wrong
"I don't know how a guy gets single covered in that situation when you're dropping eight men," Tony Dungy, 12/20/09
I think part of the problem is that he hasn’t been allowed to focus on ONE position. He’s always being moved around on the line so he can’t become an expert at any of them. The jack of all trades becomes the master of none. I think until they let him spend the entire camp working one position and focused on it, we won’t see dramatic improvement.
I think you are wrong. I don’t think anybody thinks Lang should be our future LT, including MM or TT. He really isn’t semi-passive at all. He was more aggressive in going out to his defender and engaging in contact as opposed to letting the defender come to him. This is partly why one would think he could be a good LG. He is aggressive, plays an in your face style, and has shown that he is good in run blocking.
by packallday555 on Mar 26, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
improvement
instead of looking at bench players improving this year like lee,lang ect…, i’m thinking of players such as rodgers, mathews ,barnett and collins getting better. i hope rodgers gets better at seeing the blitz coming and calling the right protections, also i hope he continues getting better at getting rid of the football instead of taking sacks.
second————-i hope mathews improves his pass rush moves, instead of just that speed rush around the corner, once clay got chipped by a back or a t.e. he was nullified as a blitzer.plus he should get better in pass coverage.
third—————barnett should improve over last years good performance. coming off his knee surgery that takes 2 years to be fully recovered, i expect barnett to be even better at covering backs and blitzing from the inside.
fourth———since collins has gotten his big contract he must show up against the good teams. collins was a non-factor against ben, brett and kurt. i expect improvement with collins in big time games this year because of him being in the system another year.
imo———if our core guys show improvement over last season than the packers can get even farther in the playoffs next year. i just like looking at our starters that can improve and make our team better not the reserve players.
At the risk of sounding like a homer...
How much can Rodgers improve? At this point all we are looking for is a quicker release, a bit better footwork, and winning a playoff game or two. That’s not so much improvement that the average fan (or color commentator) will really notice. No the jump of one of those benchers will be much more noticeable and better for the team.
Matthews I see similar to Lang and Jones. He is in contention for a sophomore slump. I don’t want to say he was overrated, but rookies that shine that much tend to dim a bit. Hell, even Hawk, that guy you dig on all the time, looked great and promising his rookie year.
You do have a point with Barnett. He could rock this year.
The points with Collins are similar as Rodgers. At this point in his career he is who he is, a ball hawking safety who loves to jump routes. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I don’t see his game taking on a new dimension.
Finally, I totally agree with you that if our core improves then we will go farther. I guess when I look at our core I see a nebulous of young players who many didn’t think should be starters on other teams a few years ago eg, Jolly, Spitz, Bigby, T. Williams, etc. These are the guys that need to improve and gain experience. The Rodgers, Jennings, and Woodsons are extremely important, but I just see how their game grows beyond the normal progression for a guy in this point in their career.
by PackApologist on Mar 26, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Rodgers still has PLENTY of room to improve. All those things you mentioned are HUGE. He’s still slow to get going at the beginning of games (over throw, kinda like Favre used to do). He’s not making the quick throws to help avoid the pass rush. You are right about his footwork as well. Those things all add up to a much better performance, I think we’ll all notice in the results.
Totally agree here. With more experience he’ll become better at recognizing the blitz (though he already does this pretty well) and at adjusting the OL. Even things like knowing what audibles to call at what times (see: Brett Favre). Obviously all these probably won’t happen in his first few years playing but as he gets more and more experience he can definitely improve quite a bit.
by packallday555 on Mar 26, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
You’re right that all of these areas he can improve in, but come on people….we’re talking about a QB who’s knocking on top 5 and solidly in the top 10 of the league.
The improvements he is facing, while real, and generally minor and stuff we don’t expect a third year starter to do that often. See the third year of Cutler, Romo, Rivers, etc.
At some point we are just nit picking him.
by PackApologist on Mar 26, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I see what your saying. Stat-wise he likely won’t improve much more but there are little things that will continue to improve throughout his career.
by packallday555 on Mar 27, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions
stats?
are for fantasy football managers. rodgers must continue to get better as he moves on with his career if he wants to get to the super bowl. his decision making, blitz pick-up, knowing when to get rid of the ball all must improve if the packers want to see a super bowl in his tenure.
improvement
I think Rodgers decision making is a strength! He does’t throw INT’s like a former QB, so his decision making is very good… Blitz pickup is something that comes w/ game experience. The more he plays and continues to study the better he’ll be in recognizing where pressure is coming from. The biggest think, IMO, that Rodgers needs to improve is holding the ball too long. He just has to know in his head when 3 seconds are up and know where to go w/ the ball as a dump off, instead of holding the ball and continuing to look down the field to make a play!
Across The Board
I believe that there’s room (and it’s time) for every Packer to step-up and make improvements in their play this year. I’m not so sure that the Pack has to draft a rookie who has to come in and be expected to start as was the case last year (Jones, Mathews) but drafting with the intention of replacement players (for the O-Line, D-Backs) is a very good idea and I can see Tebow fitting in those plans as well….either at QB if they can fix his mechanics or at H-Back (a Havner variety role) since they utilize that more and more, successfully I might add.
Look for the Pack to draft the best available player no matter what the position, but one has to think that O-Line will be a top priority and should be.
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