Mocking The Packers Draft - 2nd Round Edition
by Brandon on Apr 13, 2010 8:00 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Draft
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PrintIn the 2010 SB Nation NFL writers mock draft, I selected Oklahoma CB Dominique Franks. He's not a huge corner at 5'11" and 194 lbs., but he's a great athlete who excelled as a starter the last two seasons in a very strong passing conference. He's a pick for the future, but he could challenge for playing time in 2010, especially if CB Al Harris struggles with his rehab from major knee surgery. As much as I would have like to have found an offensive tackle for the future, the value wasn't there at the end of our mock draft. There was a mini-run on offensive lineman over the several picks prior to the Packers pick at No. 56 overall. It made me wonder if the Packers might not consider trading up a few spots in the 2nd round, if possible.
The fact I missed out on an offensive tackle made me reconsider passing on USC OT Charles Brown, especially after reading this love letter to Brown by Wes Bunting over at the National Football Post. Still the upside in my mock draft is that the Packers end up with a promising young cornerback and one of the best pass rushers in the draft.
Speaking of Charles Brown, Mocking Dan picked him for the Packers in his latest mock draft, though it's possible he might now not be available when the Packers draft.
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pass rush
Forget 1st round cornerbacks and safeties, get pass rushers. the Saints showed how you beat good qb’s by beating Favre like a rented mule in the NFC championship game. The same tactic the Giants used when they pounded Brady in ’08 Superbowl. If you have rush you can play with 3rd and 4th round corners. I will refrain from mentioning the long list of 1st round corners drafted by the Pack who were total busts but will just say that for every Craig Newsome there are 10 Ahmad Carrolls.
fair point, but it's not like 1st round d-linemen are exactly immune from busting
…and as for this mock, I’ll just say that I’m glad that Brandon’s not going to be in our draft room. We need a LT. We want lots of other positions, but we need a LT.
by Curly Lambeau on Apr 13, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
LT/OLB
I would say our need is just as great at OLB as it its at LT. Jones just doesn’t have the explosiveness necessary for a 34 OLB. He’s good in coverage, but that certainly didnt help vs Pitts and the Cards, did it?! Its difficult to pass on a LT but an OLB is just as much a need… Look at the best 34 Defenses! THey have 2 explosive playmaking OLB, always w/o fail!!!
Kindle would not be my pick at 23, everyone knows I like Hughes, heres why:
1 Kindles 20 shuttle time of 4.53 is extremely slow… Means he has POOR quickness and change of direction. Hughes was #1 at 4.15!!!
2 Kindles 3 cone drill was significantly slower than Hughes as well
By comparison Kindle is MUSH slower in the measures that predict success in coverage. Matthews and Hughes 6.90 and 6.99 in the 3 cone vs Kindles 7.26.
3 A measure that isn’t published is the 40 time – 20 shuttle <.40
By this measure
Hughes is .50 which is extremely quick and explosive
Matthews is .44 which is very quick and explosive
Kindle is .12 which is extremely POOR
These are just measures but they are measures the NFL teams use to guage a players athletic ability and explosiveness and quickness.
Not to mention Hughes’ PRODUCTION is also much better than Kindle’s!!!! Kindle gets the hype being from U of Texas.
2nd rd I’m not a fan of Franks… I am an OU fan afrer UW of course, and watched them alot and Franks didn’t impress me w/ his play. I would have taken Owusu Ansah in the 2nd better CB and return man that Blackmon!!!
typos
Matthews and Hughes 6.90 and 6.99 in the 20 shuttle, not 3 cone vs Kindles 7.26.
3 Measure not published 40 time – 3 cone > .40 show very good quickness and explosiveness.
Matthews and Hughes .44 and .50 respecively to Kindles .12 which is extremely poor!!!
This again?
Hughes HAD better PRODUCTION, because he was in A worse conference, where he faced lesser COMPETITION!!!!! Also, Kindle missed two GAMES last season so that would have TO factor into THINGS as well?????
Also, you can’t put that much stock into combine numbers and how great a player will be.
by Charlie Kelly on Apr 13, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Kindle got to beat up on some of the weak sisters of the Big 12… And there are alot of them!!!
You don’t put much stock in quickness being extremely important in coverage? You should its THE most important trait in coverage!!! Far more important than speed!!! Kindle has VERY POOR quickness which doen’t bode well for him being good in coverage!!! And everyone already says Hughes is the better pass rusher over Kindle!!!
As opposed to the titans of the Mountain West Conference that Hughes faced?
You know, college football powerhouses like New Mexico and Colorado State. Not saying the Big 12 is a great conference by any means but it’s quite a bit better than the Mountain West.
As for the combine numbers, once again those don’t actually guarantee a player will be better than another. Every year several guys who do well at the combine bust (Just look at the Raiders draft history)
by Charlie Kelly on Apr 13, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
competition
Hey I’ve alway said that level of competition is a minor concern regarding Hughes! Funny thing is that none of the scouts seem to make any noise about it!!! Probably cuz his PRODUCTION is off the charts!!! LOL
THeres a lotta of guys from alot smaller schools than TCU that have great careers in the NFL!!! DRC in AZ being the most recent example!!!
Man, you;re AN obnoxious typer
But you keep saying EVERYONE said this or that, without any proof. I’ve looked it up a few times now and the common result I see is that they’re pretty evenly matched as prospects with Hughes being the harder worker with a good motor and Kindle being the athletic freak.
Also, just because you haven’t heard anyone talk about him being at a smaller school, doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter. Simply put, when you play lesser competition than someone else, you will look better. (See Allen, Jared)
by Charlie Kelly on Apr 14, 2010 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I like Hughes but if he is really that much better then Kindle then I don’t get why Kindle is a projected top 10-15 player in many mock drafts, and Hughes is a late 1st-early 2nd in many mock drafts.
The competition faced is a valid point. Love the Jared Allen example as well haha.
One thing that should be noted is Kindle did play a little bit of LB at Texas. So while his quickness may not be as good as Hughes, he does at least have some experience in dropping back into coverage. If we were choosing between Hughes and Kindle I’m not sure what I would want us to do.
by packallday555 on Apr 14, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Athletic
If Kindle is an athletic freak then why does he have an extremely SLOW 20 shuttle and 3 cone? Those measure QUICKNESS, and quicknes is about THE most important aspect of athletic ability among all sports?!!!
That is NOT an athletic freak… Not even close!
However, Hughes does have exceptional quickness! 4.15 20 shuttle is better than Jacoby Ford, by ALOT. Seems to me the real athletic freak in Hughes!
Kindle is definitely an athletic freak. He has good speed but more so the strength to bully OT’s. If he really puts those two qualities together he could become a nearly impossible guy to block. Kinda like Terrell Suggs or Merriman in 2007.
I think Hughes could be really, really good to though. Kind of a guy right out of a Clay Matthews type mold.
by packallday555 on Apr 15, 2010 2:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Strength
How many reps did he have in the bench? Hughes 26, I think Kindle had 25… Speed as in the 40? 4.72 as compared to Hughes 4.69… Quickness Hughes FAR better!!!
Try again!!! Fact is that Kindle doesn’t hold a single advantage over Hughes in any measure of athletic ability!!! Nor PRODUCTION!!!
So bench reps determines who has the potential to be a better bull rusher? I think you know that’s not the case. Kindle has a longer, more lean frame. He has a good frame, and should be able to add 10-20 lbs.
I get that you love Hughes but if he is so much better then Kindle like you seem to claim then why is he pretty much a consensus pick to go in top 15 before Hughes?
Another thing. I get Hughes put up great numbers at the combine, many of which can translate directly into things like coverage and explosiveness of the line but it’s still not the same. I think you may be putting a little too much into his combine numbers.
by packallday555 on Apr 15, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope
What I love is his 26 1/2 sacks in college, His combine numbers just sold me on him…
Also love that he’s physical, explosive and has a non stop motor, Kindle is described by alot of scouts as sofft!
I don’t care what others say, I think they are swayed by Kindle being from UT and being 6’3 or 6’4 and relatively long, though their arm reaches are nearly the same.
Hughes better pass rush move, more varied and better hand use… Could go on and on…
STROHMAN, GOOD POST!
Outstanding analysis of the combine/pro day numbers!
Question: If both LT & OLB are higher priority needs (& I agree) which way do we go? Who’s got to be on the board at 23 for you to go LT? The same with OLB at 23? Said another way, what’s your rank ordering of both LT & OLB selections at 23?
I personally think a good, quick OLB could be picked up at 87 & that maybe 56 should be used on a RB. I know some posters believe RB depth is more of a luxury than a need but I ask myself what do we do if Ryan Grant goes down & do we feel good about his replacement? I think several very good RB’s (Gerhart, Hardesty, Tate) could be available for us at 56 that would represent an improvement over what we currently have.
Go RB at 56 & then OLB at 87! Argue with me. What do you and others think?
LT/OLB
I am not decided about taking Brown over Hughes, but any of Okung, Bulaga, Williams and Davis probably should be taken over Hughes. Only OLB I would consider at 23 are Hughes and maybe Weatherspoon. Tho Weatherspoon is better suited as a 43 than a 34 OLB.
I would wait on RB til the 3rd or 3th rd… RB, especially in the zbs, don’t need to be high draft picks. The zbs is a pretty easy scheme to run in when its blocked decently. One cut and head up field… That doesn’t require a “special” RB talent. I like Dezi Kareem in the 4th myself. You might be able to find a quick OLB in the 2nd or 3rd, Worilds is the quickest, but he doesn’t have the pass rush ability of Hughes.
I don’t consider a RB a big enough of a need to use such a high pick on, especially for a zbs offesnse like the Packers. Gerhart might be a 2nd rd prospect, but Tate and Hardesty are 3rd rd or 4th rd guys, IMO.
LT IS MORE OF AN IMMEDIATE NEED!
OK, Strohman, so if the top tier tackles you indicated are gone at 23 & we take either Hughes or Weatherspoon, who, or what position, should we target at 56?
I suspect all of the really good LT’s will be gone & all that will be left are 2-3 year projects. We currently don’t have a good replacement for Clifton if he goes down-puting the proection for our franchise QB in jeopardy. In my mind, this is a rather immediate need especially when you take into account Clifton’s injury history.
My point is LT talent will probably drop off appreciably at the end of the first round/beginning of the second round and while there’s no doubt that Hughes & Weatherspoon are better OLB prospects than Misi, Bowman, Norwood, Worilds, etc. left offensive tackle depth is more of an immediate need than our OLB need-especially when we can still get pretty good OLB talent at either 56 or 87.
I like your point about one cut backs & the zone blocking scheme. Maybe we can wait a round or two before we pick up an RB although I sure think Gerhart would look awfully good in Green & Gold.
2nd
In the 2nd rd at 56 I would target Veldheer or Saffold as LT guys… And if we can’t land either of them I would trade up in the 3rd to draft Tony Washington… I wouldn’t be opposed to trading up from 56, if we could get Brown in the early 2nd. Or into the mid 2nd to get Saffold.
I understand we need a LT, believe me.. But unlike you, I think, I won’t reach for one! Remember Wolf reached for Jon Michels and lived to regret it… I would think Thompson learned his lesson from watching Wolf make that mistake!
Its unlikely Saffold falls that far but hopefully Veldheer does. ANd Washington is a small school LT that has ALL the physical tools to play LT. With both it would take a minimum of a year and likely 2 for them to be ready.
@ STROH: LMAO I'm sorry I missed the debate! You forgot to mention...
If we draft Hughes @ #23, he can double as a Short Yardage Specialist! : ) He was an All-State Running Back! : ) I bet if we asked him to, he could punt as well! LMAO!
Love to hear you beating the Drum for Hughes… How about this scenario:
Draft Brown @ #23, (if he’s there) which is looking very doubtful… But, let’s just say he is… Then, take our #1 pick from next year and move up to #36 or #38, and take Hughes…
Many so-called experts say that next year’s draft will be very diluted, if we have a great year like I think we will, we’ll be picking very late next year, and the value of a late 1st round pick next year will equal a Top 2nd Round Pick this year!
Then we take a CB, RB, or Safety with our original 2nd round pick!
We would still have our 3rd, 4th, 2 5th’s, 6th, & 7th Round Picks to get a RT and shore up our other needs!
I realize that we wouldn’t have a #1 next year, but, if we hit home runs this year, we won’t even miss it! : ) Just a thought! : )
Go Pack!
Brown
I don’t see Brown going that early… My guess is he’ll be on the board at 23. He would be a big reach for anyone above 20. I think he’s a reach even at 23. Drop down 5 spots and he’s worth it cuz LT is such a premium position.
I saw you didn’t vote for Hughes on BR!! VERY DISAPPOINTED!!! Shocked… Simply don’t know what to say! :(
I am NOT in favor of trading next years #1 to move up in this years 2nd rd!!! Take Hughes at #23 unless a Top 4 OT falls!!! Then get Saffold, Veldheer in the 2nd or Washington in the 3rd. I wouldn’t mind moving up in this years 2nd rd using our 3rd rd pick
Starting to look like Kindle won’t be there for us anyway:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-sergio_kindle_in_heavy_demand_html-2010414
AMEN TO CURLY!
I’m starting to get a little scared. Methinks Charles Brown is starting to climb up the board and won’t be available at 23.
I don't think he will be!
I did the “Predict the Pick” on NFL.com, and I had all 6 of the top LT gone by pick 17!
Go Pack!
Samari Rolle just got released by the Ravens
We could sign him and get a little deeper at corner and not have to take one in the early rounds who can play next year.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
Rolle
Yeah… That way we’ll be even OLDER in the secondary and be farther from turning over from the Harris/Woodson duo! That makes…. NO sense!!!
I only say we might think of doing it
so that we can draft a corner and groom him a little bit while Rolle plays for one year. Rolle would come very cheap as well.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
Rolle is old with nagging injuries
No thanks.
by Charlie Kelly on Apr 13, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
If he gets cut, I say we HAVE to take a look at him. If they want anything more than a 4th in a trade its not at all worth it though! They WILL want more but I don’t think they’ll get it. If he makes it to FA we should trip over our feet running to get him though. He’d be an instant, HUGE upgrade over what we have returning kicks now and actually could compete with Nelson and Jones for that slot receiver position.
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