2010 NFL Draft Recap: Packers Draft Grades
by Brandon on Apr 26, 2010 7:00 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Draft
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When I'm talking about NFL draft grades for the Green Bay Packers right after the draft, I'm not necessarily talking about the player and his NFL career. No one knows how their NFL careers will turn out. What I'm looking at is the first the need and then value of the pick.
1st round: Iowa LT Bryan Bulaga. I wrote more about him earlier here and here. Offensive line has been talked about as a major need after the sack attack suffered by QB Aaron Rodgers early last season. LT Chad Clifton and RT Mark Tauscher return in 2010, but the future looks cloudy. He is a true tackle and the Packers had no true tackles on the team after Clifton and Tauscher. Also, it had been expected since the NFL combine in February that Bulaga would be drafted in the top 5 or at least the top 10. So to have a top 5 talent fall down to pick No. 23 overall is a great value. Grade: A.
2nd round: Purdue DE Mike Neal. Who? More on this surprising pick here. Everyone was expecting/hoping the Packers would draft an outside LB to replace the outside pass rush provided by DE Aaron Kampman. Instead they went for a strong DL who can bring an inside pass rush. They're counting on Neal to occupy the linemen inside and that will help their returning LBs (LB Brandon Chillar? LB Brad Jones?) on the outside. I'm not sure if I like this strategy, but that's what they're going with. Unfortunately Neal might not have been a good value here. No other team drafted a pass rushing defensive lineman for another 17 picks until the Bills drafted DE Alex Carrington. Grade: C.
3rd round: Georgia Tech S Morgan Burnett. More on him is available in my earlier post. While starting FS Nick Collins and SS Atari Bigby have played good to great over the past three seasons, there is no depth behind them. Bigby has missed extended time over the past two seasons, and his replacement has usually been a major SS Aaron Rouse-type disappointment. As valuable as it would have been to add a top cornerback, adding a safety for depth was just as important, if not more so. Unfortunately this was no value pick because the Packers had to surrender their 4th round pick to the Eagles to trade up to pick No. 71. However, they wanted Burnett and two teams who also needed help at safety were right behind (the Bears at No. 75 and the Giants at No. 76). Burnett would like have been taken before the Packers could have drafted him 15 spots later. Grade: B.
Round 5 through Round 7: My draft grades for these players are available here.
Overall: This isn't my favorite draft of the past few seasons. They focused heavily on offensive tackle and defensive end, drafted an unnecessary tight end, and failed to add depth in several areas, most notably outside linebacker and cornerback. But I do like all the players they selected. A good looking group of players, and having a top 5 talent fall to them at No. 23, helps make this year look good. Overall Grade: B.
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Great Analysis
I agree wholeheartedly for the most part. While I like some individual players (Bulaga, Burnett, Starks) the Pack simply failed to address some glaring deficiencies on the roster. OLB was a HUGE priority that had to be addressed with a decent player in the first three rounds, and the Pack completely whiffed. Instead, TT decided to overkill at certain positions, not simply adding depth but drafting players that will a) not make the team or b) push a solid veteran off the roster. We drafted two DE’s. We already have six defensive linemen (all solid except for Harrell), the number 3-4 teams generally carry. This means that probably 1-2 players, either rookies or vets, won’t make the team. What’s the point? Same goes for TE. We already have 3 capable players at the position, yet we draft another guy. This isn’t adding depth, it’s overkill. There’s no way we keep 4 TE’s especially with 2-3 FB’s on the roster. I understand going after players to improve even your best units, but not at the expense of positions in desperate need of some talent. We should all mentally prepare ourselves to see Clay Matthews put up sub-10 sacks, because that’s the reality of what’s going to happen without a dynamic player opposite him.
"stay (green and) gold"
I still disagree on OLB. I want to see our current guy have another year in the system. Again, we are discounting him for an average season and not giving him the benefit of the doubt since he’s a project…a 7th rounder learning a new 3-4 scheme. We might be SHOCKED at how much better he looks with another year under his belt. Not every player comes out like Clay did this year…
Your argument about DE’s (having 6 solid ones) works against you with LBs though…we have like 9 of them on the roster already which is also overkill! We have a TON of money put into that position so unless we can rid ourselves of a contract at LB I don’t think bringing another in is going to happen.
Regarding TE, we have one great one and 2 mediocre (at best) TEs. This new guy Quarless has the talent to shove the other two out of our mind by the first preseason game. If he kept his head on straight I hear he would have been a 2nd rounder.
I get the question marks on it, but the more I investigate these guys, the more of a fan I am. I think it was a pretty decent draft. I think we’ll all learn why guys like TT are paid the big bucks and why we are fans! :-D
I'm with Trevor on this one
The biggest complaint I could see against this draft is that the players selected may not impact this year. However, it’s clear that each one of these guys offer better depth at each of their positions, should replace the #2 guy at each position, and may push to be a starter over the next few years.
The other thing not to underestimate is that both Jolly and Jenkins will be free agents next year. Probably will even be unrestricted free agents. That means we would have to choose one (mostly likely) or lose them both (also possible). The more we can have those big men to stuff up the run, the more the talent we have at LB can do their job and make plays.
by PackApologist on Apr 26, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I disagree about not making an impact this year
I think burnett will come in for bigby and neal for jolly in dime (and potentially nickle) formations. MM stated he thought the guys he drafted would make a difference in sub packages so i think this is the plan.
Yes, yes ,yes
I completely agree with you. I think TT picked some sleepers over the weekend. MM said in his press conference that you adapt your strategies to your players. The only time our D had troubles last year was when a veteran qb knew enough to step up in the pocket to get a few more seconds away from the outside rush. Mike Neal has the speed ans strength the rush on the inside, giving us a dimension we were missing last year. Also, at positions like CB we drafted guys like Pat Lee in the 2nd round who have yet to contribute due to injury. There is also Will Blackman and Brandon Underwood. Will all these guys be injured again this year? Chances are no, so I think we have more depth at that position than people realize…we were just really banged up there last year. OLB we have Poppinga and Brad Jones who was just a rookie last year. Opposing coaches were in awe on how good he was playing last year and how TT found him in the 7th round. This kid will have another year under his belt training with one of the all time great pass rushers Kevin Greene, so I expect to see him play quite abit better this year.
So ya, I think all you people who don’t know what they are talking about should shut up and do alittle research on these players and maybe listen to what our coaches are saying about them before you open your mouth. I remember last year some idiot saying TT was dumb for trading up to get Mathews because he was unproven in a 3-4, and was a much better fit for a 4-3…and this guy was supposedly a professional sports writer with alot of knowledge on such matters. I just looked at Mathews you-tube videos and saw the potential…same with this years draft.
You don't know what you are talking about
I know you like to think you do, but drafting for need is dumb. You draft the best players available, then mold your scheme around those players. EVERY great football team does this.
Not entirely
I agree that you take the best player on the board, but only to a point. Earlier I said that if Jimmy Clausen were available at 23 the Packers should take him. He was, and in my view he WAS the best player on the board at 23, but the Packers really have no need whatsoever for a rookie quarterback.
On the other hand, the Patriots could have said the same thing when they had Drew Bledsoe in his heyday, and yet drafted a guy named Brady.
that was the 4th round though
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
by blackoutsox on Apr 27, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually...
It was the 6th round and it was a compensatory pick. There was NO risk with grabbing Brady. If the Packers took a late round QB, I wouldn’t make a peep about it.
It was the 6th round
Wolf used to do that — take a QB project in the middle rounds and see if he could develop him. Brunell, Detmer, Aaron Brooks, Hasselback all are examples of that strategy.
In this draft, with such obvious needs at CB, OLB and OT (there are enough guards masquerading as tackles that I don’t count that position as a need), I think that Thompson needed to give need some weight. My gripe is that I don’t think Bulaga was the best available tackle for the situation.
?
you know a better tackle than Bulaga that was available at 23?
and my bad about the 6th round, dont know how that happened but the point is that there is basically no value lost by taking someone that late as compared to 23rd overall
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
Charles Brown
Tackle from USC, went to the Saints in the second round. More of a project but a much better upside. If the idea is to let the rookie tackle sit and learn for a year, then I would have voted for Brown.
Brown wouldn't learn he would need to add weight.
You’ve got a point here, but I would still elect Bulaga. If the worst happens to either Tausch or Clifton I would feel more comfortable with Bulaga trotting on the field this year than Brown.
Bulaga is also a safer transition for either one and allow for us to get a dynamic player in future movements instead of disparately searching for a tackle.
by PackApologist on Apr 27, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I concur
Although this draft was not sexy, it was certainly very solid. I too don’t understand all of the people that say we absolutely needed to draft a OLB and CB.
First, other than Hughes, who we would have had to draft in the first instead of Bulaga, who could we have taken in the 2nd rd that is hands down better than Brad Jones? For all the talk about how deep this draft was for 3-4 OLB’s, I didn’t see it. I saw several guys that were major health concerns, like Kindle and Sapp. Even Hughes would have to be “projected” to 3-4 OLB. Notice he was drafted by a 4-3 team to play DE. Had he not been drafted by the Colts he would have been drafted by the Saints, another 4-3 team.
Here is the better question: Who could the Packers have drafted that is so much better than Brad Jones that it would justify not having a true LT behind Clifton? I don’t know about you but I know I will be sleeping better during the season knowing we have Bulaga behind Clifton.
As for Quarless, although skeptical at first, the more I read, the more I like it. Quarless is likely already a better blocker than Havner, and is unquestionably a better receiver. So Havner is likely gone. I think Lee sticks around for this season only. So think about this, Finley and Quarless in a two TE set! That will create match-up problems like you would not believe. There is a whole host of short-yardage and goal-line formations where those two could be dangerous!
Finally, I have no problem selecting to DE’s. First, Jolly may be suspended for at least 4 games or worse, be in prison. No matter what, he will not be back after this season. I think TT is afraid of what will happen when he gets paid. We don’t know if Harrell will ever be able to play. I think Ronald Talley and Jarius Wynn are far from “solid.” So that leaves us with Jenkins and Raji as “solid.” What happens is Pickett goes down? Raji is out of the DE rotation. So I have no problem improving depth here. Fresher bodies = better push.
We could have got OLB Jerry Hughes in Rd 1 & OT Charles Brown in Rd 2
but there was no way of us knowing that Charles Brown would fall to the end of the 2nd Round. That stunned me and would have been too risky to count on. It probably would have been the better route for us as in results, but we had no idea that would happen and if Brown and Bulaga would have been taken before our pick in Rd 2 after we picked Hughes, then we’d be complaining because our biggest need at OT was not addressed.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Excellent Points
I heard GB was eyeing Koa Misi to be our OLB in Round 2, but I believe Miami took him early in the 2nd Round. I did not learn of Kindle and Sapp’s injuries until half way through the 2nd Round, so after the 3 of them, there really wasn’t anybody we could have got. It sucks, but that’s what happens. The board worked against us in the 2nd Round, so we decided to beef up for defensive line. If Ray Lewis likes that approach, we should be happy.
After reading some reports on bleacherreport.com, I am in Quarless’ corner. I think he fixed his off field issues and will be a gem. Well, I hope that is the case. Come game time, he is listed at 6’5, but at the combine he was listed at 6’4. Another big target for us.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
I think we had a pretty good draft overall. The DL picks were kind of iffy for me at first but what really made our 3-4 work so well last year was that we had 4 guys who could be good contributors. Not only does Neal simply add depth, he potentially adds a pass rushing aspect that only Jenkins possesses as well. (Raji remains to be seen.) The DL added in the 7th round again provides depth.
Quarless is kind of a head scratcher but is a perfect example of the BPA. Yes, the guy has had issues with his behavior in the past but he is really talented. Finley is great but after that what do we really have at the TE position? Lee screams average, and is getting up there in age. Havner was a surprise for us last year but who knows what his future holds after his DUI incident. Quarless potentially gives us another good pass catching TE. He and Finley could be an effective duo.
I love the Buluga and Burnett picks. Both will likely become starters, and both could do so from day 1. On paper, this looks like another nice draft for Teddy.
WHY DID BULAGA FALL SO FAR?
Not that I’m complaining-I’m just wondering & feeling a little uneasy about Bulaga falling so far. What is it that caused other teams to pass on him? (Where’s my green & gold comfort blanket & pacifier?)
Needs
Bulaga fell because other teams decided they had higher needs than at OT, and that there where play makers they simply couldn’t pass up. His play was good, and he did have a point in there where he had a thyroid problem that kept his play poor for a while till he got back into it. Once he did though, he played really well against the best 4-3 end drafted. So I guess it comes down to, other teams just didn’t think they needed a LT as much as what they got.
short-ish arms for an LT
is probably the biggest criticism I heard about him. That, and he suffered from a viral illness during this past year that caused his performance to dip a bit, and I’m sure teams that watch a lot of game footage were a bit concerned.
The short arms thing could be an issue at LT long term (which is why you’ll hear that Bulaga’s more of an RT), but it sounds like the illness issue was a one-time thing. Ultimately, I think we got an awfully good deal with him at 23.
Joe Thomas and Jake Long both have shorter arms than Bulaga.
Just sayin
by Charlie Kelly on Apr 26, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
This, and there were only so many teams that needed to draft an LT. The Bills passed on one at 9, which pretty much assured the Packers being able to get a top 5-6 LT if they wanted one.
by packallday555 on Apr 26, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Talent issue
Most scouts believe that Bulaga does not have much of an upside from where he is now. In short, most scouts believe that he was a second or third round talent, not a first rounder.
It's not a question of talent
The main question about this is the Robert Galley fallout. The general thought is that Iowa linemen are so well coached that you can’t teach them that much more. This eliminates an upside.
Really I think you are getting too caught up in the snow job that teams try to pull on each other by bad mouthing prospects in the hope that a player will slide.
by PackApologist on Apr 26, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
"Most" scouts?
Really? You’ve conducted a survey of all scouts to conclude what “most” think?
Second or third round talent? I’d really love to see some of these mocks you’ve seen or some of the scouts opinions you’ve read. I don’t think I saw a mock where he was even below the 10th pick in the draft. I also read profiles from scouts who thought he was the most NFL ready of the LT prospects aside from Okung, though even questions started to arise with him in the weeks approaching the draft.
I would have thought you of all people would be happy that TT actually picked an OT, and did so early on. I’m sure you’ll mention that he could play OG as well but the guy is a tackle, and looks to be in the NFL.
by packallday555 on Apr 26, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Mock Drafts are a Travistshamockery
You have better chances picking the winning lottery #’s than you do predicting a draft order.
i was....
sold to begin with on OT Charles Brown and had no clue who Bulaga was (i plead ignorance) to begin with so i was dissapointed but now im lovin him after all ive read and seen! That was our biggest problem for most of the year….protecting Aaron!
!st time poster here long time reader…..GO PACK!
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
I love the Bulaga pick
I am a student at Iowa, have seen tons of games live, and I couldn’t be happier that Bulaga is going to the Pack! It’s great to see a beast from my college team end up with my NFL team. Like others have said, definitely not a sexy pick, but a solid one nonetheless. Plus, he’s used to the cold.
If you want a good/funny summary of Bulaga check
this out
And same as you, 1st time poster here, so hopefully I’ll see you around!
by blackhawkeyes on Apr 26, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
good....
to hear from somebody that KNOWS about this wonderful dare I say SEXY pick we got in Bulaga!!
You WILL see me around
Sarge out
I don't do it for your thanks, I do it because I had a calling, but I do love the support you give me and my Soldiers.
by Sarge Clemins on Apr 26, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Bulaga slid for a reason
The talk about him being a top 5 pick was just talk. The fact is that the guy is about as good as he is going to get. Some scouts questioned whether he belongs at guard or at tackle (great, another “versatile” guy) because he has a small wingspan and small hands, attributes that you typically want to see in your tackles. Most scouts agree that he does not have a lot of upside, and severally had projected him as not even being a first round pick. I don’t like this pick in the first round, but the good news is that, with any luck, he will be allowed to sit and learn for the year while Clifton finishes out his career.
Wingspan is crap
I understand the theory behind wingspan and hand size, but really this wasn’t talked about until a couple years ago. The fact is that Bulaga has pretty similar measurables as Clifton, Joe Thomas, and Jake Long. All three are fine tackles, so please don’t give me that his arms are long enough or hands are too small garbage. All that is nit picking.
As for the upside debate, you’ve got some traction there. That seems to be the knock on Iowa guys since they are so well coached. The poster boy of your whole critique is Robert Galley. The problem with the argument that you underestimate how much help the Pack needs along the line. The only reason why anyone talks about Bulaga at guard is that he played there is freshman year, so there is some talk about an ability to play the position if need be. This is minority voice which is speaking about a contingency. Bulaga is a tackle. Tackle is the only part of the line the Pack needs help at disparately. Even if there is a worst case where Bulaga can’t play left then he can fill in at the right spot eventually and you still have value at 23.
by PackApologist on Apr 26, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Joe Thomas has been a Pro Bowl selection 3 years in a row.
And he was an All-Pro selection last year. His team’s just abysmal.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Apr 26, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
These have been measured for quite some time
Everything is measured, and hand size and wingspan are part of the equation for offensive linemen, particularly tackles.
The best things that could happen to Bulaga are (i) he is told he is a tackle, and he plays exclusively at LT (McCarthy says this is what the team intends to do), and (ii) he sits for the year on game day and watches, and learns.
Ordinarily I don’t get involved in draft discussions, either before or after, because nobody really knows what they are talking about (including me). BJ Raji should have been in the Pro Bowl already (if you accept the homers’ superlatives from last year), unless of course he couldn’t beat out Justin Harrel (if you accept the hype after he was drafted). Personally, I thought Brown would have been a better pick this year. But who knows?
By the way, last year I liked the Raji pick but didn’t really like the Matthews pick. Turns out I was wrong.
Good points. I don’t say TOO much pre-draft because honestly I really don’t have the time to study up on a couple hundred players 98% of which won’t be on my team. I loved the Raji pick last year…I liked the fact that Thompson was willing to trade up for Matthews and I liked what Matthews stood for but I didn’t know if he’d do much so early on. I never expected him to be THIS good this quickly.
The "fact"?
Really? It is a “fact” that someone is as good at something as they will ever be? How do you know that or even go about concluding or proving that? And there you go again with you “most” scouts crap again. So, I guess we should believe that the Packers scouts are the only ones that think Bulaga actually has an upside?
Then why didn't Barry Sanders or Adrian Peterson get drafted #1 Overall?
Every player has a weakness. Some people just look at Bulaga and say, he has short arms, so he won’t stick around too long. With Robert Galley failing not too long ago, that’s understandable. Heck even Jason Smith from last and and Grosder Cherilous from the year before dissapointed. I’m looking into it, but while reviewing the scouting reports of Joe Thomas, he too had the one knock of having short arms. Just a thought.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
I guess AP's weakness
is that he has trouble holding onto the ball in big games…
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game of 2008.
by NorthSidePaulie on Apr 26, 2010 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
weren't there red flags because...
he was coming off a major injury. Due to some a-hole horse-collaring the funk out of him.
They want power. We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Apr 27, 2010 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Good point
But I tend to have a zero tolerance for stupidity in all its forms. Thus, people thrusting stupid ideas need to be taught how to actually follow football.
by PackApologist on Apr 26, 2010 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You're new, aren't you?
Let me guess — you used to be “Favresucks,” weren’t you?
,I see we will have much to debate going forward.
I don't know if i was "Farvesucks"
It was the right move for the time given the facts. Dude, I don’t want to pick a fight, I just want to let you know when you are misinformed. Your point above, grossly misinformed.
by PackApologist on Apr 27, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha he isn’t talking about your opinion towards the Favre fiasco. There actually used to be a guy on here whose name was “Favresucks”.
by packallday555 on Apr 27, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m curious. Where did you see him not even projected as a 1st round guy? Was it a mock that was made in October-December?
by packallday555 on Apr 26, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I probably looked at 20 mocks
leading up to this draft – Bulaga was a top-23 pick in all of them. He never got past the Packers, and was gone by then more often than not.
by Archibaldcrane on Apr 27, 2010 5:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Position
Where can we expect Buluga to play this year? I was maybe thinking Tauscher inside to guard and Buluga at RT.
I don't think he's going to pick up a ton of plays this year unless he REALLY outperforms Clifton and Tauscher.
Which he could conceivably do. Don’t mess with offensive line rotations unless you’re playing Madden. Then you can do whatever you want. :-)
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Apr 26, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
No. Tauscher is not mobile enough to play LG. Sitton has RG on lockdown.
Plus, T.J. Lang has already proved his worth at tackle. He will back up Tausch.
Bulaga is clearly going to be “bred” to be our LT of the future. Clifton will probably get hurt before the real season even starts, giving Bulaga plenty of opportunity to score some valuable reps. Then, Cliffy will come back, Bulaga will warm his seat until Chad gets hurt again. Enter Bulaga for good. He and the Packers staff never look back.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
Brad Jones
Does anyone think we should move Jones to MLB!
No
No. I mean really…..NO. We have three starting ILB’s as it is, and why would we want to move Jones from the position he knows?
by PackApologist on Apr 26, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
No
So there has been a lot of debate on this site about Brad Jone’s future at OLB i went back and pulled this from Cbssports.com
A defensive end/linebacker hybrid, Jones flew under the radar until running the 40-yard dash in 4.54 seconds and posting a 33-inch vertical jump at Colorado’s pro day in March. Where the Michigan native will fit in the NFL remains to be seen, as his athleticism has always managed to outshine his production.
Analysis
Positives: Rangy build with plenty of room for additional growth. Good athletic ability. Productive player who has seen starting action at both linebacker and a glorified defensive end position. Some natural pass rusher traits. Flashes initial burst off the line of scrimmage. Can drop back in coverage and shows some instincts in space. Reads the quarterback’s eyes and can close. High effort defender. At his best in pursuit. Effective wrap-up tackler who flashes some explosiveness.
Negatives: Bit of a ‘tweener. Listed as the strong-side linebacker as a senior but played a hybrid defensive end position and lacks the bulk and strength to remain on the line in the NFL. Struggles to disengage from blockers. Eye-popping athleticism shown in workouts doesn’t necessarily translate onto the field. Hasn’t developed into the player his athleticism makes seem possible. Best fit might be as a 4-3 outside linebacker and special teams ace.
I’d like to highlight the fact that he had natural pass rush skills despite being an OLB and that his 40 is great…. kindle’s is 4.71 for comparison. This kid was brought in as prospect that could cover and get to the passer.
This is interesting, and it seems pretty spot on. He definitely showed he has some quickness off the line, and that he could provide a pretty good speed rush. He also was great in coverage and good against the run. Where he struggled was with getting off blockers after they got their hands on him. Hopefully the muscle he has added helps him with his bull rush.
by packallday555 on Apr 27, 2010 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
The team needs an upgrade
Brad Jones is filling the position, nothing more. He was drafted as a special teams player, and that’s where he belongs, although he has enough talent to provide some depth at OLB.
Really?
If Jones was merely filling a position, then how come he beat out veterans such as Jeremy Thompson and Brady Poppinga? If he was merely filling a position how come the D was faster and more efficient when he was in over when Kampy was in there?
I understand the overall point, and I agree you can never have too many pass rushers, but don’t blow off Jones simply because he wasn’t as effective as Matthews in his first year in the league. The first to second year is the year that most players make their largest jump. Let’s see what the kid has got before we throw in the towel.
by PackApologist on Apr 27, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
ditto
What Jones accomplished as a 7th round rookie was impressive to me. Sure, you’re not going to simply hand him the starting gig without new competition, but he’s not someone to write off, or call him only a special team player. That goes for Poppinga, when you consider the fact that the defense switched schemes.
The first to second year is the year that most players make their largest jump. Let’s see what the kid has got before we throw in the towel.
Sorry for nit picking but Jones didn’t even have a full year. Generally, guys improve from the 1st half of the season to the 2nd half. Jones didn’t have that chance.
by packallday555 on Apr 27, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Thompson and Popinga suck
This is a position that needs an upgrade. Jones is a space filler, nothing more, but he was never intended to be more. I am not ragging on him for it, just as I don’t rag on Jarrett Bush for being a lousy safety because he was not supposed to be playing regularly. He is a special teams player.
Kampman is not a linebacker
He was miscast. He should have been traded before training camp began because he just was not a good fit in a 3-4, but Thompson was couldn’t afford the PR hit of dumping Kampy after his previous adventurous summer.
Well Thompson at the very least
I will admit that guy just couldn’t play on the field. As for Popinga, well he is the model of a filler player. Good enough to play, good enough to start for many teams…just not very dynamic. Right now my biggest problem with him is that the Packers are over paying the dude.
by PackApologist on Apr 27, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
He was drafted as a special teams guy but he showed that he has the ability to be the starter. I think it’s pretty evident TT doesn’t feel that Jones was simply a fill in otherwise he would have likely addressed the position in the draft.
The only thing Jones didn’t do well last year was rush the passer, and in particular, proivde a bull rush. Though, I don’t think people are entirely fair in their opinions on Jones simply because of how good Matthews was the last half of the year. I know we’d all like to see another Matthews type talent opposite of Matthews but there aren’t all that many guys out there.
I think people should keep in mind that Jones was a 7th round pick, who at the time he was drafted, was probably thought of as nothing more then a special teams player like you mentioned. He came in half way through the season, and did so weighing only 235 lbs. or so. I’m sure if TT thought he would make a difference he thought it would be in a year or two after he put some more muscle on, and got more accustomed to our system. Jones play was impressive, and really impressive when you consider the situation he was thrown into.
Another thing to keep in mind. Matthews didn’t turn into a beast til the 2nd half of the year. Anyone else think a lot of that has to do with him becoming more comfortable and gaining more experience? We should at least give Jones a full year to play before we start deciding what he may or may not become.
by packallday555 on Apr 27, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
What about when he ripped the ball from AP?
I thought that was his turning point. From there on out, he started to really turn it up! I remember him saying that he would talk to his dad week in and week out as to how to improve on his shortcomings/faults and emphasize his strengths.
In regards to Jones, I can’t wait to see him perform in training camp and the preseason, much less the real season. I think that we already have a very fine pair of pass rushers. Jones, like the nfldraftscout.com profile above indicates is that he has a hard time getting off blocks (pretty clear on runs to his side), which just takes coaching to correct and overcome. Kevin Greene will surely give him a full dose and a half this summer!
BUT, would it be out of the realm of possibilities to sign Adalius Thomas?!? Could you imagine our defense with him thrown into the LOLB rotation? Goodness, it gets me all giddy just thinking about it!
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
ktenreb is clearly oblivious
Seriously dude? You think that people are drafted “just for special teams”??? If a player gets an opportunity and shines, why should he not be allowed to claim his starting spot?
No matter at which position you were “drafted” to this site , you have clearly hit your ceiling already. It’s no wonder you can wrap your head around people working hard and improving at what they are DRAFTED to do.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
re: ktenreb "Bulaga ... as good as he's going to get"
wow…. how can one safely comment on that statement ?
I quess people said the same thing about Rodgers when he fell.
I see Bulaga being a great asset, EVEN if he doesn’t take over the tackle position and only bolsters the Packer’s inside protection and ground game.
That seems to be the consensus from most scouts
Rodgers had the enormous advantage of being drafted and allowed to sit for three years without having to do anything other than learn. That’s the old-school approach (to quarterbacks in particular). It would be great if Bulaga could get the same treatment, at least for a year as Clifton finishes out his career.
If you read my other posts, I said that I generally don’t like participating around draft time. Everybody’s an expert, but nobody has anything solid to go on. I confessed that last year I liked the Raji pick (he had a so-so year) and I didn’t like the Matthews pick (I was wrong). Unfortunately, too many homers come out this time of year and proclaim that guys like Justin Harrell are great picks and will be perennial All-Pros. If I offer an opinion that doesn’t conform to the rampant homerism on this site, then nubes like you aned PacklApologist get all bent out of shape.
It looks like I made a friend
Thanks for calling me a homer! Sproo was just calling me a debbie downer just before the draft.
I don’t care if your opinion doesn’t conform, but I will challenge when I think it’s off. Particularly I just don’t agree that OLB was a higher need than a tackle who could take the field this year. I would be with you in the liking of Charlie Brown before the draft, but I like Bulaga better. The main reason why is because Chad Clifton is more machine than man right now, and I seriously doubt he can put together a whole season. Add that with the fact that the only position where there wasn’t young talent with at least some potential on the team was tackle means we needed someone who could step in at a moment’s notice and not risk Rodger’s life.
As for OLB, well I stand by my trust in Jones at this point. I want to see what a full offseason of work and study can do for him there. The other guy that I’m interested in seeing is Obizor. This guy really caught Greene’s eye last year and may turn some heads come training camp.
As much as you don’t want to conform ktenreb, do try to look at the whole of the roster. See the young talent just waiting to pop before freaking out over one position.
by PackApologist on Apr 27, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm with you
in his 8 starts Jones put up good numbers (4 sacks in 8 starts compared to Matthews 11 in 17). especially considering he is so raw and missed the first half of training camp. That said we are really thin and would not want to see poppinga starting on either side so i am upset we didn’t get another to push Jones and add depth… but to say that he has no upside and no chance to be a good starter is just stupid.
I'm pretty sure that Matthews only started in the first Minnesota game...
http://www.nfl.com/players/claymatthews/gamelogs?id=MAT538690
Just sayin’.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
I don’t think anybody is on here saying Buluga is going to be a perrenial Pro Bowler. You got a reaction out of people because you came on here saying that Buluga is a 2nd to 3rd round, which just isn’t the case.
by packallday555 on Apr 27, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait though…that just debunks everything you are saying on Bulaga. The “scouts” which by scouts, you mean journalists all thought Rodgers didn’t have the upside and look at him. They were WAY wrong on Rodgers (and so was I) so who’s to say these same clowns are right on Bulaga? Just sayin…
I think Charles Brown was the better choice
From what I have read, Bulaga is “more polished” at this point, which I take to mean is more capable of stepping in and playing. But he wasn’t drafted to play this year — we just signed both Clifton and Tauscher to contracts. The plan appears to be to let Bulaga sit and learn. This is a good strategy that played out very nicely for the Packers with Rodgers (who, I submit, would not be nearly as good if he had been thrown into the starting lineup as a rookie). But if the rookie tackle is supposed to sit and learn the position this year, wouldn’t it have made more sense to give up a little “polish” in return for a higher ceiling? I think so.
Again, I really don’t like participating in these boards this time of year . . . too many homers going “rah rah.”
yeah, cliftons gonna last the whole season
RIP Jim Thome 1-25-2010
an AL team not having a DH is like a giraffe fucking a mule. - larry
by blackoutsox on Apr 28, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
But if the rookie tackle is supposed to sit and learn the position this year, wouldn’t it have made more sense to give up a little "polish" in return for a higher ceiling?
This is a good point. I don’t think MM thinks Clifton will be able to go the whole year. I remember reading an article that quoted him saying something along the lines of, “history would tell you that Chad isn’t gonna play in all 16 games this year.”
I like/liked Brown a lot. He is a great pass blocker which is what we needed. I was surprised to see him drop all the way to 64th in the draft, as his status seemed to be sky rocketing as we got closer and closer to draft day.
Buluga may not have as much upside as some of the other guys in the draft but he is more polished then most, if not all of them. I think he fits really well with the new image MM has said he wanted for our OL a year or so ago. He’s a big, strong, physical OL who is a mauler and finisher.
by packallday555 on Apr 28, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I see your thinking…wouldn’t Brown also be the higher risk to bust out though too. I guess Bulaga is more of the safe pick while Brown would have been the higher risk higher (possible) reward kind of pick. The again, Brown fell all the way to 64 so clearly all 32 teams felt he wasn’t worthy of a 1st rounder. There must be something the teams know on him that the rest of us don’t because the mocks had him rising in the 1st round yet the teams felt he was barely 2nd round talent.
I guess in the end, time will tell. My point is that just because some writers talk about him having a ceiling doesn’t mean he will have one. Its all based on speculation.
The homer talk is pretty weak though…don’t mistake excitement for the upcoming season and for the potential of players as homerism. There is a difference. Most people that you would label a homer do plenty of questioning of the team as well. Its term that is as almost as misused as troll in message boards like these!
How do you KNOW who has more upside?!?
I am really curious as to which psychics and prophets you are in contact with.
The “upside” argument is the most overhyped, contorted, media-spun moniker that anybody in the sports journalism business uses. It’s all conjecture.
I’m sure no one ever talked about James Harrison’s “upside” when he wasn’t drafted and then hired and cut ad nauseum.
Charles Woodson was so dominant in college he must’ve already reached his ceiling prior to reaching the NFL.
Barry Sanders was too small.
Tom Brady just had average arm strength.
Brett Favre took too many chances.
Philip Rivers delivery was too side-armed.
Adrian Peterson is too injury-prone and fumbles too much.
Chris Johnson didn’t play in a POWER conference and wasn’t agile enough.
Mark Tauscher wasn’t Chris McIntosh.
(Insert Pro Bowl Left Tackle’s Name here) didn’t have long enough arms.
Oh yeah, Bryan Bulaga is too polished!
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
by GOLee on Apr 28, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
On the one hand you claim" I generally don’t like participating around draft time. Everybody’s an expert, but nobody has anything solid to go on. I confessed that last year I liked the Raji pick (he had a so-so year) and I didn’t like the Matthews pick (I was wrong). Unfortunately, too many homers come out this time of year and proclaim that guys like Justin Harrell are great picks and will be perennial All-Pros"
And then you make an outlandish ploclaimation that Bulaga is “as good as he’s going to get.”
I “know” nothing. I “think” Bulaga will be good. I doubt he’ll start week 1, unless there are injuries.
PSU fan here
Quarless was a steal in the 5th round. Was hoping my 49ers would take him. He’s a great blocker, has great speed(for a TE), great hands, and great size.
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Vladimir Ducasse 3.Torell Troup 4.Robert Johnson 6.Mike Kafka 6.Joshua Moore 7.Alex Daniels
On a serious note:
Quarless at East-West practices was “stonewalling” players the caliber of Greg Hardy. In his final game with Penn State he set a record of most receptions of a PSU player in a bowl game with 8. Who ever saw that game would know the conditions were horrendous.
Quarless has 1st round talent, but has a history of problems off the field and not being fully committed on the field. He just needs to be motivated. He’s “God’s Gift”. Just look for signs of his character issues being alleviated at OTA’s.
1.Brandon Graham 1.Charles Brown 2. Vladimir Ducasse 3.Torell Troup 4.Robert Johnson 6.Mike Kafka 6.Joshua Moore 7.Alex Daniels
Hopefully he can get his head right. It seems like he has a whole lot of talent. He and Finley could be a nice tandem at TE for Rodgers.
by packallday555 on Apr 27, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Quarless a great blocker ?
I’ve read that is one of his negative areas. Interesting to hear the side of someone who, I’m guessing, watched him play a lot.
Bulaga was a steal at 23
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is
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