Recap: Packers Rookie Orientation Camp
by Brandon on May 3, 2010 8:00 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintThere wasn't a lot of big news out of the Green Bay Packers rookie orientation camp and that's probably a good thing because only an injury would have made headlines. Instead the biggest story was that LT Bryan Bulaga got benched after a couple of false start penalties. And in no way does that translate into something to be worried about going forward.
- I had no idea how many players they had in rookie camp. Here's the complete list. It includes the recent draft choices, the recently signed undrafted free agents, players signed to futures contracts at the end of last season, and 28 players in for tryouts. Of those 28, only WR Shawn Gore was reportedly signed, but Mike McCarthy said one more player might receive an offer too.
- Bob McGinn wrote a good article about 5th round draft choice TE Andrew Quarless. He's had off-field problems, but they wouldn't have been drafted him if he didn't have talent. GM Ted Thompson has only used a couple draft choices on TEs over the past few years, and only TE Jermichael Finley and Quarless have been drafted before the 7th round. This draft pick was a big surprise at the time, but Railbird Central pointed out an article from Football Outsiders that showed how ineffective TE Donald Lee was last season. He was the 2nd worst TE according to FO's conventional stats too. The last time a Packer TE was that bad was in 2006 when TE Bubba Franks led the league in suck. Maybe Lee will survive this season since Quarless (he's only 21) still has some growing up to do, but 2010 might be Lee's last season with the Packers.
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Unless Donald’s blocking is much better than I think it is or Spencer Havner has a recurrent brain fart, Lee will probably be cut at the close of training camp. Ted (rightly, IMO) favors young players with some upside over veterans who are unlikely to improve. Finley, Havner and Quarless would be a very interesting and useful trio heading into this fall, especially since both Havner and Quarless are likely to end up being useful on special teams.
Yeah, Havner probably won’t end up being much as a receiving threat because of Finley and the addition of Quarless. He still could come in from time to time and being a nice target though, and he should be able to contribute on special teams quite a bit. I believe he is a converted LB.
by packallday555 on May 3, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Donald Lee will be the one cut
Havner provides versatility as a TE, LB, and contributes on Special Teams. Lee had a down year and did have plenty of crucial dropped passes last year. Even though Havner had a bad offseason, his youth and contributions to the team will save him a roster spot and put Lee’s in jeopardy.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Only one contract signed?
Man I really hope that sam shields makes the cut. Our team could definitely use his speed if for not anything but as a return man. If Quarless turns out ANYTHING like Finley, then GB’s full house wide formation could feature Finley and Quarless as Fullbacks, and be very effective. On a side note, I hope that we sign some good players and not have three fullbacks on the roster again. Kuhn and Quinn should work.
Did you see the packers.com interview of Sam Shields?
He said he’s run the 40-yard dash as fast 4.19!!! He said that he would be excited to return both kicks and punts and has done so since high school. When asked what he thought was most important he said that vision is most important, then speed. Yes! He gets it! Finally (besides Blackmon), we have someone who understands that!
Also of note, his trapezeus muscles (between neck and shoulders) are bigger than most peoples’ biceps. Yikes.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
Shields...
…has already signed a contract.
They are talking about the many random FAs that were brought in for a look.
Shields
Just cause Shields runs fast doesnt mean he will be a Great or even a Good player otherwise the Raiders would dominate all the time and I dont see that happening anytime soon. Plus for him to make the team he will have to show value in more then just one area because if you look at the team there may only be 4 or 5 spots available between 20 or 30 players. But I agree that it would be great if he did turn out.
by Charles Heath on May 6, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Atari Bigby
I would have to say that Atari Bigby’s chances of making the team just decreased. The safety position is suddenly crowded.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Packers-sign-Anthony-Levine-to-threeyear-deal.html
They will probably only keep 4 safeties. Collins is not going anywhere. They will not cut Burnett. They signed Levine to a 3 year contract. That leaves one spot and Derrick Martin is a better special teams player than Bigby.
A rookie free agent who wasn't drafted?
I’m not following you here — if this guy is such a stud, why did he go undrafted?
Bigbe needs to work hard to earn his spot, but he isn’t going to be penciled in behind a no-name undrafted rookie who couldn’t even earn a signing bonus.
I think the thinking is that since they gave him a 3 year deal, he’s going to be more costly to release than Bigby who is on a one year RFA contract.
It doesn't work that way
Only guaranteed money is accelerated when a player is released. There isn’t any guaranteed money in this deal.
Right, but why give him a 3-yr deal? Why not a one-year deal? I think they have to keep him on the roster becasue he will not make it to the practice squad if they cut him – another team will surely grab him. Futher, Kahlil Jones is likely headed to the practice squad as a safety. That is why Bigby is in a precarious position. If they keep Bigby this season it is because someone got hurt or they carry 5 safeties.
deal
THey can release him w/o any cap considerations if they want… I don’t know why the 3 yr contract, but unless there is a signing bonus they don’t have any cap cost!!! He’s a undrafted FA, obviously every team already had a chance to draft him and didn’t, so why would there be so much competition for his services?
You can bet on one thing, a 3 yr deal is either good for the Packers in some way, or they gave him that as an incentive to sign in GB… I can tell you w/ certainty that unless there is a signing bonus, he gets nothing!!!
3 year deal
There is no guaranteed money in this deal and it is at or near minimum. This means that if he is good and makes the team and turns out to be a steal for us we get him super cheap in years two and 3.
I doubt we’re going to let Bigby go. Collins is better then him but as of now he is the best option we have at SS. Burnett may, and hopefully will prove himself but until he does, and even if he does we should keep Bigby. It’d be nice to have Bigby as a back-up.
If they do only keep 4 safties I think it would be Collins, Burnett, Bigby, and Levine. I’m sure Martin would just have his role replaced by Levine.
by packallday555 on May 3, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Bigby will be going anywhere soon
He’s inexpensive and will provide excellent depth if Burnett beats him out for the starting position.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
I’d love to see Bigby stick around to provide us some experienced depth. There is NO guarantee that Burnett beats him out too!
About all that really matters to me, in the end, is that
whoever we keep this year is, collectively, better than who we kept last year!
-
The glass is more than half-full.
Martin
Martin wont be released as we gave him guaranteed money in his contract. the only reason we signed Levine to a 3/yr deal is to get him to come to Green Bay vs go somewhere else and/or If he has a good showing in preseason it will be easier and have more value to trade him as the team that gets him will have him super cheap for 3 years.
by Charles Heath on May 6, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Bigby
No way they let Bigby go. He has starting experience and when he finally got healthy the defense really took off. Look for anybody but Bigby, Collins, or Burnett to go. Those three have spots on the lock down. And IF one of those three do get cut dont be surprised if its Burnett.
by Charles Heath on May 6, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it would be derrick martin that gets cut out of those safities. Because he is a better special teams player but bigby is a better actual safety. As for the tight-end situation i think we will cut donald lee although after holding 3 fullbacks last year i wouldnt be suprised if we held 4 tight ends.
by Adam Tarasievich on May 3, 2010 2:11 PM CDT reply actions
I don’t know. I don’t think they are very happy with Bigby. I picked up on one subtle comment TT made about Bigby to the affect that Bigby has an ankle that just never seems to go away. I sensed a little frustration there. Also, Darren Perry has already stated that it is basically an open competition between Bigby and Burnett.
When it comes down to it, the difference in Bigby’s ability at safety does not exceed the difference in Martin’s ability on speical teams. Bigby is also a restricted FA with a one-year tender; he won’t be resigned considering what the Packers have done at safety so far this offseason. He has not signed his tender so if he misses the May OTA’s I would be even more sure that he will not make the cut this year.
Didn't MM say they were going to add a veteran OLB?
any thoughts on who that might be?
They want power. We want respect...
This statement made me LOL
The last time a Packer TE was that bad was in 2006 when TE Bubba Franks led the league in suck.
Well, I don’t think Lee was drafted, and Franks was the 11th overall pick? Franks was a draft bust, Lee had one good season before Finley earned his much needed playing time…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 3, 2010 3:58 PM CDT reply actions
I wouldn’t say Franks was a bust. He did make the probowl early in his career. It’s just that Franks faded fast. He was good and within a season of his declined just disappeared.
by PackApologist on May 3, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Could have taken Julian Peterson with that pick...
And Bubba never had a really outstanding season in a Packers jersey. 14th overall pick, down the drain…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 3, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
How many Pro Bowls did Bubba Franks go to?
3? 4? I would hardly call him a bust. He was a great blocker and a good red-zone threat, which is precisely what he was supposed to be.
I don't really get that. Williams was injured so often in Detroit that his absence was sorely felt by the Lions all the time.
He’s not a bust, just a WR trapped on the Detroit Lions, who couldn’t do much of anything right for a while… They did go 7-9, but we don’t remember that. We will almost certainly remember 0-16, though…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 3, 2010 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the Safety Roy Williams is just a dissapointment, but not a bust
Kind of like AJ Hawk
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
The difference between Hawk and Williams
Hawk has always been solid and consistent. Nothing spectacular, but still relatively productive. Williams on the other hand really never was any of those thing after the horse collar tackle was outlawed. A rule put in place because of him.
by PackApologist on May 3, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I would say the same.
With the safety, his great play was mostly due to having a GREAT safety on the other side and good corners so it masked his deficiencies allowing him to concentrate on the ESPN highlight hits which earned him his PB appearances. Just remember when you are slightly above avg and in Dallas you tend to make the pro bowl. I thin kthat is all their fans do is vote for their players all day!
Pretty Much
I think I usually only vote 2-3 Packers a year. I wish more people would take the Pro Bowl Voting more seriously.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
He put up some very unimpressive stats his final Pro Bowl selection...
30 catches, 240 yards? That’s typical of the 4th or 5th wide receiver. That’s unimpressive. But as a blocker, he helped Ahman Green get a ridiculous number of yards. Maybe that’s why he went. There’s no real stat for blocking in the NFL (unless you play Madden, in which case you can turn mediocre OL into Hall-of-Famers…)
He just caught an injury bug and is hoping to find some team that needs him. But for a 14th overall seleciton, he was good. You just can’t have “good” with the 14th overall selection, you need “servicible” or “excellent”.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 3, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Franks contract extension was given by Ted Thompson
He couldn’t afford guards, but he spent a wad on Bubba Franks. Bubba wasn’t a bad player but he just did not fit in after the team went to the gimmick zone-blocking scheme.
Revisionist history
He couldn’t afford guards? Since the Packers did play with two guards that season I assume you meant that they could not afford Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera. Rivera signed a 5-year, $20M deal with a $9M signing bonus. Wahle was set to make $11M ($6M roster bonus, $5M base salary) in 2005, and was released after efforts to extend him failed. He signed a 5-year, $27M contract with Carolina.
Bubba Franks, on the other hand, signed a 7-year, $28M deal. So, Franks was cheaper than either Wahle or Rivera.
by bpjensen on May 3, 2010 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And so the solution was
Will Whittaker and the The Legend That Was Adrian Klemm. Simply genius. And a 4 – 12 record. And the beginning of a feud with the hall of fame quarterback.
Should it be mentioned that the same Hall of Fame quarterback was absolutely atrocious all year long?
The Packers truly EARNED the AJ Hawk selection with that horrific season…
And for whatever reason, the Packers didn’t really put Aaron Rodgers in at QB despite Farve throwing some games away…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 4, 2010 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions
We've been over this before
You can’t blame Sherman for going all in. He had a team that was Super Bowl caliber, and he “shot the wad,” so to speak, to try to get there. The team didn’t get to the Super Bowl and then there was the price to pay. The salary cap wasn’t mismanaged, it was intentionally managed knowing there would be a price to pay. It didn’t work out and Sherman had nothing to show for it, and then Thompson ran him off by giving him no NFL-caliber guards for the following year.
Thompson ran him off because he had Super Bowl caliber teams and couldn’t get it done. There was also the fact that Thompson was then tasked with rebuilding the team because Sherman had shot the wad, for good or ill, and the team needed to be retooled.
by PackApologist on May 4, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Why don't you move to MN
An give Ol’ bret a nice blow for us all….looser
I believe it is spelled "loser"
“Looser” refers to “those kind” of girls we tried to date in high school.
Haha please don’t start this again. Sherman basically had our cap situation in ruins. Overpaying for two aging, declining OG’s would not have been smart.
by packallday555 on May 3, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly, how long did Wahle and Rivera remain relevant after leaving Green Bay?
Man, we sure should’ve given them big contracts. And hey, let’s also make Favre our QB/GM until 2020 while we’re at it.
by Charlie Kelly on May 4, 2010 5:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
they were awful the moment the began their careers in Carolina and Dallas.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
by Jabooty on May 4, 2010 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a false statement
But the issue isn’t getting rid of them (or failing to re-sign them), the issue is failing to REPLACE them. Thompson is still trying to make Daryn Colledge one of the replacements by giving him a 2nd round tender (talk about mismanaging the salary cap!).
I don’t think he wants Colledge to be the replacement. He actually has found some good OG’s too. Took him longer then you would hope for but between Sitton, Spitz, and hopefully Lang we’re just fine at OG.
by packallday555 on May 4, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get this argument
How is giving Colledge getting a second round tender mismanaging the cap? Especially considering there is no cap this year. Also that when you get a RFA to sign a tender it’s typically very cheap, versus what you would pay to a UFA.
by PackApologist on May 4, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, Colledge is abysmal but not bad to keep around for depth until we get our starting 5 figured out. Sounds weird but we actually have some options. Who knows how Spitz will be coming back from injury.
by packallday555 on May 4, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
For Daryn Colledge . . .
$20 and a bus ticket is the limit of what the Packers should be paying.
by ktenreb on May 4, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And I don’t necessarily disagree but it makes sense to keep him around for depth. We don’t know how Spitz will come back from injury and Lang isn’t a sure thing at LG. If worst comes to worst I’d rather have Colledge at LG then Dietrich-Smith or some other FA we would just pick up from the streets.
by packallday555 on May 4, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Too true
Especially since it’s a one year deal for minimum money in an uncapped year. So little gambled on this one.
by PackApologist on May 4, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, he has struggled to replace them
I agree with you here. However, are you saying TT has to be perfect in order for you to support him? No GM is perfect, every GM struggles to find replacements and put the team in a good situation.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Agreed
I completely Agree with this. How many times do you read about some fan that says all TT has done is run the team into the ground? Come on he has developed a very young and talented roster. Other then a couple postions we are set everywhere for the future and the now. And what team in the NFL can say that they are set at every postion? None, the Packers are better off then almost every team in the NFL and are on the edge of starting a dinasty to rival even the best teams we have ever had.
by Charles Heath on May 6, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember this post
And let’s check it out at the end of the 2010-2011 season.
Yes Let's
Lets do that at the end of this season. Boy you really are a pool of negativity. It must really suck being you.
I'm quite pleased with myself
The boards are boring this time of year, so why not liven it up a little? I’m happy to take all of you on.
It’s a little late in this thread, but I’m going to try to really get one going here — if it doesn’t catch on, I’ll start it up on a new one.
The Packers benefited this year from playing the weakest schedule in modern history. While the record of 11 – 6 on its face appears solid, the catch is the team feasted on patsies all year long. We cannot use the 2009-2010 season as any barometer to measure the team, because it didn’t beat anybody of note. Quality teams beat the Packers, and good teams thumped them (the Vikings come to mind). Thompson lived on borrowed time last year; this year, it doesn’t look like the scheduling gods are going to be quite so favorable. I will be happy with an 8-8 record this year, because that’s all the better this team is.
Maybe we would go 8-8 if we had the exact same roster as last year, but we dont. We have improved in areas one i can name off the top of my head is barbe wont be starting for any amount of time. Another is all the young players we have in guys like; Rodgers, Finley, Clay, Jennings, Raji, Jones and every other member of the team is going to be better.
paper teams dont make championships but neither do they make failed teams. If we get a few things to fall our way namely injuries and pass protection we could easily be the best team next year. or if we get nailed with injuries we could be fighting with the lions and bears for the bottom of the barrel.
also we may have had an easy schedule last season but if you cant use our sucess from last season as a imagie of where we are going this year you also cant use the sucess of other teams from last year against us.
I see us easily making 11 plus wins and getting places in the playoffs.
by Charles Heath on May 7, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
schedule
Viqueens had the same schedule… In fact I seem to remember seeing that their schedule ended up being easier then the Packers!! Basically only 2 teams are different and if those 2 teams have down years as compared to the previous ones they would face an easier schedule!!! 14 games out of 16 were exactly the same as the Packers…
Try again!!!! LOL
Sorry dude, but Bpjensen and Packallday just schooled you big time there.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
by Jabooty on May 3, 2010 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
At the time, Bubba was young and coming off another pro bowl season. Favre LOVED him because he could block and receive and was a great check down target for him. TT kept him around to keep more stability and because he looked like a solid guy for the next 5+ years. He never missed a game to injury before the deal. The next year he missed almost half the season and he was never the same.
In hindsight…terrible signing but you can’t really argue with the logic at the time!
You cannot be SERIOUS!
Bubba a bust? No way, man. He was really good for a long time. The fact that anybody would even suggest that he was a bust sheds some light for me on how people can talk about AJ Hawk as a bust when he’s obviously a good player. He’s not Lawrence Taylor, but he’s good.
Seriously, people, it might not be the most realistic thing in the world to expect that every single 1st round pick is going to make the HoF. Hawk is good. Be happy. Thank you.
Yeah I agree
I hear 1st rounders are a 50% fail rate, by that measurement Hawk is a success, it would be nice if he was Patrick Willis but c’mon.
by ericforeman04 on May 4, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
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