On Packers Draft Choice Mike Neal and Other News Around The NFL
by Brandon on May 5, 2010 8:01 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers News
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Print- Wes Bunting over at the National Football Post wrote a pessimistic article about the Green Bay Packers 2nd round pick, DE Mike Neal. The overall point was to point out guys who jumped higher in the draft because of their NFL combine results. But first he said "Neal is another guy I liked during the season" but he just didn't like him at the Senior Bowl. This isn't a red flag, but it's understandable to read some doubts about a player who was expected to go in the 2nd round and I've still got them too.
- Former Packer LB Nick Rogers was killed in a car accident on Tuesday. If you blinked during the 2004 season, then you might have missed his appearance on the roster. It was a strange situation because he started 16 games in 2002 as a rookie for the Vikings, started 16 games again for them in 2003, and then they released him before the start of the 2004 season. Best wishes to his family and friends.
- Former Packer FS Darren Sharper re-signed with the Saints for one-year and $1.5 million. That's a steal of a contract for a player who helped turn around a terrible secondary. However he's coming off the dreaded microfracture surgery, and I'm not really optimistic he'll be the same player next season.
- Despite earlier rumors that the Packers were interested in signing major bust CB Adam Jones (I guess we don't call him Pacman anymore) the Bengals have "won" the sweepstakes for his services in 2010.
- I'm not a fan of signing middle LBs to big contracts, see my previous rant about the new contract for LB Brandon Chillar, so the 5 year and $50 million contract with $29 million guaranteed for 49ers LB Patrick Willis got my attention. However his contract is worth it. Willis is arguably the best in the NFL at his position and has already been named to the first-team All-Pro team twice in his three year career.
- Tough times in Nashville. Horrible flooding over the past few days had brought water into their stadium and it nearly reached the first row of seats. Hopefully they get some good news down there this week.
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Re MLB: In the 4-3 defense, the MLB is a cornerstone of the LBs so signing him to a monster deal makes sense. He’s the captain of the defense. In our system it wouldn’t make sense at all though!
Re Neal: I don’t get how someone can like someone a lot during the season when football is real and then see one game (Senior Bowl) where he didn’t like him and suddenly he’s not worth it anymore. Wouldn’t a full season of work trump one game? That is the kind of stuff that keeps me from getting too into the draft.
Yes but they do a lot of switching back and forth too. Plus Patrick Willis never comes off the field he is on for nearly every defenseive snap.
by Charles Heath on May 5, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, the 49ers run a 3-4
but Willis still commands that D they same way Ray Lewis commands his D. Usually the ILB in a 4-3 is more valuable, but once in a while you’ll land an elite ILB to play in your 3-4. Willis is arguably the best ILB in the NFL now days as Urlacher and Lewis are both aging.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
to be far...
The Senior Bowl is a week long event where scouts are watching their every move in each practice and the game. Its not like he just watched the game.
If Ted Thompson thinks he's so friggin smart
then why can’t he figure out that he can draft his “gems” just before the round everyone else thinks they’re worth, not in the round he thinks they are worth. It’s like he’s intentionally and belligerently ignorant about setting up his draft board without respect to what other teams are likely to do. Harrell? Nelson? Neal?
Neal could pay off and it won’t make Thompson smart, because he will still have cost the team a chance at another second round talent. I just don’t get it.
Because you can never know what other teams are going to do
Who would of thought the Jags would pick Alualu in the ten spot this year. Or that Kindle would slip that far? Or that Clausen would fall that far? Teams don’t call each other and swap stories about how their board is looking.
I don’t know what exactly you want TT to do here. He puts together his board based on the scout’s reports and what they see on tape. Short of setting up webcams in every front office in the league I don’t know how he’s really going to satisfy you with the whole gauging what everyone else in the league will do.
by PackApologist on May 5, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah, I get that they are blind to each others’ draft boards, and that there is a lot of misinformation spread around intentionally. but you can’t deny that there are picks that consensus reaches, and some of TT’s fall in that category. Conventional wisdom is often conventional for a good reason.
If he’s only use the draft to build a team and he drafts for value, what I want him to do is be a little more cunning about the getting the best complete draft he can, rather than take a Neal prematurely. See Bill Bellichick.
by theisman's leg on May 5, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Every draft will have its question marks
BB is the smartest guy in football, but I don’t know if he really drafts all the well. Take this year for instance, he didn’t address a critical need that the Pats had in their RB and WR corp. But I digress….
I would agree that TT has had his reaches, but I wouldn’t say it’s any more than any other GM. He dies like those small school guys that may not be on every team’s radar. Sometimes they are great, such as Collins and Jennings, sometimes they work out but are not superstars, Nelson and Colledge would fit here, and sometimes they don’t work out at all, Harrell. Really though TT draft record is not really that bad.
by PackApologist on May 5, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Harrell wasnt a small school project he was a stud for Tennesse* and if he hadnt got hurt his senior year people were talking about him being a top 5 pick. The only question mark coming in was if he would stay healthy which obviously hasnt paid off but to take a guy with top 5 talent at 15 and hope his injurys dont flair is a great idea it just hasnt worked out so far. TT has loaded out roster full of young talent so I say dont bash draft picks until we see how they turn out. Neal could be the next Richard Seymore or he could be the next bust pick, just dont hate on him till we see him on the field in Green and Gold.
by Charles Heath on May 5, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
boards
Every team sets up their draft board based on what the player shows on film, and in workouts to a lesser degree… When setting up the board they take into consideration the type of techniques and responsibilities that will be asked of the player, and which players will be able to perform those the best!! In short they set up the board based on the scheme that they use!!! In the 34 D and the DE in tthat scheme the DE plays alot of 5 technique and as a DT in the nickel he will be playing 3 technique… Clearly based on seeing Neal play those techniques, Thompson gave him a 2nd rd grade!!!
Also keep in mind there were alot of DT or 34 DE that were taken in the 1st and early 2nd rd. All the top 10 34 DE were taken except for CJ Wilson and Neal… Thompson chose Neal in the 2nd and got another top 10 34 DE in the 7th… That makes both picks valuable at the time they were taken!!! Its all about getting the VALUE out of each pick and the other picks that were made prior…
You have NO IDEA who and where Neal would have been drafted if the Packers had not taken him in the 2nd. You also fail your history test… Harrell was taken by the Packer at #16, if the Packers had not taken him, its common belief that the Bronco’s would have taken him at 17 or 18!!!
Thompson has the team in contention for NFC Supremacy… I would think instead of doubting everything he does you should be giving him alot of credit!!!
by Strohman on May 5, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
theisman's leg, aka Nostradamus
“Conventional wisdom is often conventional for a good reason.”
That is true, but generally, conventional wisdom is based on the collective experience of similarly situated people making decisions. The conventional wisdom you refer to is based on the opinions of draft pundits who have never been NFL scouts, GM’s, etc. They are not simialrly situated with actual NFL scouts and GM’s. So unless you point to some piece of information that shows exactly how each team had each player rated and that information matches what the pundits thought, I will rely on TT’s “conventional wisdom,” thanks.
“then why can’t he figure out that he can draft his "gems" just before the round everyone else thinks they’re worth, not in the round he thinks they are worth.”
So, you are assuming then that Neal was not worth a D3 pick? Or, do you think he was a D4 or D5 pick? Either way, under your method, the Packers would not have been able to draft Morgan Burnett. Harrell was going to get picked in the Top 20 in 2007, likely by Denver. Regardless, he would not have made it through the 2nd round. So, under your method, it was a good pick becasue TT picked him the round before “everyone” else thought he would be picked. As for Nelson, again, “conventional wisdom” had him later than the 3rd round? Nelson is a pretty good player, he may not be Devin hester on KO returns but I think he will take over Driver’s spot when the time comes.
And speaking of Mr. Burnett, I think TT showed some of the “cunning” you desire when he traded up and took Burnett before the Bears were to select him. Let’s see, made the Packers better and prevented a division rival from getting the player they really wanted, seems like a decent move to me.
“Neal could pay off and it won’t make Thompson smart, because he will still have cost the team a chance at another second round talent.”
So, even if Neal turns out to be a good player, which would undoubtedly make him a “talent,” you would still find fault because TT could have easily selected Neal later and drafted a 2nd round talent instead? And that is becasue all 2nd round players pan out? I mean are you serious? Just think of all the talent TT passed on when he traded a 2nd and two 3rd’s to get Clay Matthews; it boggles the mind.
“See Bill Bellichick.”
Ok, I remember the Packers trading the #36 pick in the 2006 draft, a pick that “conventional wisdom” said they should have taken a WR, specifically, the “talent” Chad Jackson. That pick was traded to the Bellichek lead Patriots, who drafted Chad Jackson. Poor TT, outwitted by Belichek, took the Patriots 2nd round pick and as “conventional wisdom” thought, reached on drafting Western Michigan’s Greg Jennings. Who got the better end of that deal? Do you even know who Chad Jackson now plays for? BTW, take a look at Belichek’s drafts from 2006-09. I count a grand total of 5 starters. Impressive.
“what I want him to do is be a little more cunning about the getting the best complete draft he can”
So you want him to draft based on knowing exactly who is going to select who and where? Sounds reasonable.
“I just don’t get it.”
Neither do I.
Denver & Harrell
I`ve said this before, but it`s not really much of a defense of TT to say that a notoriously wacky drafter (Shanahan) was after Harrell.
Elsewhere it`s said that TT knows better, has better info, etc., but here the defense is that he`s just like everyone else.
by uglyfatpimplynerd on May 6, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
another aspect to remember is that just because some sports writer ranks him in a certain spot doesn’t mean the NFL guys do and they know a LOT more!!!
by TrevorR on May 5, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
He was worthless in run support. Worse than worthless, actually. He was/is a big, gaping hole in the middle of the field. And, yeah, he gets interceptions, but he gambles and loses lots of times too. Plus, he’s a motor-mouth who’s always telling everybody how great he is. I get more glad he’s gone everyday.
by Curly Lambeau on May 5, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I just loved Sharper when he was with us
You may be right, but you cant say that the nine picks wouldnt have been nice across from Nick Collins. But who knows maybe if we kept Sharper we probably wouldnt have drafted Collins.
Those nine interceptions would have been pretty useful against Pittsburgh, Cincy or Minnesota...
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 7, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I can just imagine Darren Sharper taking it to the house against the Vikings from this year.
TWO reasons for that scene: The Vikings cut him, AND he gets to pick off Farve. I wish that had happened…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 7, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree on this one.
Collins is actually maturing into a better all-around FS than Sharper was. Collins has the terrific ball skills that Sharper has made a career of, but actually is more adept in run support. I’m happier with Collins now; his future is MUCH brighter.
On a related note, I am PUMPED about Burnett challenging Bigby for the starting SS spot. It is going to be a ridiculous defensive backfield this year, methinks, Harris or not.
Here’s to hoping TT has his eyes on the nation’s top CBs for next year’s draft!!!
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
I liked Sharper. he brought a personality and image to the team. Our D doesn’t really have a sharper like player in that way. Maybe someone will grow into that role but we could use someone that can spark the D and get them going. I guess Clay could be that guy, not sure he has the personality though. I liked that aspect of Sharper. I didn’t like his showboating though…
personality
Well that “personality” your talking about, come w/ the showboating!!! LOL They go hand in hand… Take away the “personality” and you have just another boring player!!! Take away the showboating and you have a player w/ no “personality”!!!!
Personality
Nick Barnett is the sharper like player in that way. He brings the personality to our defense.
by Charles Heath on May 6, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Adam vs. Pacman explained
When he was trying to rehabilitate his image during his comeback with the Cowboys, he (under the expert guidance of Deion Sanders) made a big deal about how he no longer wanted people to call him Pacman. Pacman, we were told, was the narcissistic, destructive, spoiled side of his personality, and he was trying to leave that behind. So, he asked everyone in the media to refer to him as Adam Jones instead. For the most part, they did.
Then he got in trouble again. Now you see it done different ways by different writers. Which one you use says something what you think about the kind of person he is and the direction in which you think he’s headed. Personally, I usually don’t talk about him too much anyway, but usually use Pacman when I do just because it’s more familiar. When somebody says Adam Jones, it takes me a second to remember who they’re talking about. But, Pacman… How many other Pacmans are there?
…plus, Atari needs company. So unless there’s a Colecovision Smith or a Frogger Johnson rising through the ranks right now somewhere, I’ll keep calling him Pacman.
In that case,
Which one you use says something what you think about the kind of person he is and the direction in which you think he’s headed.
He is forever ‘Pacman’!
-
The glass is more than half-full.
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