Judge Rules Vikings' Williams Wall Must Serve Suspensions
by greenbay packers backer on May 6, 2010 12:04 PM CDT
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PrintHere is some news the will affect the outcome of the NFC North this year!!
[ed. note from Brandon: This is a great post, and the only article I found anywhere on the web that actually discussed how the absence of DT Kevin Williams and DT Pat Williams would actually effect the Vikings on the field. However, the players intend to appeal, so I'd be surprised if this already two year old case is resolved in 2010. They might not serve their suspension until their ready to retire from the NFL.]
A long, winding legal battle over four-game suspensions took another turn Thursday.
A Minnesota judge ruled that Minnesota Vikings defensive tackles Pat (No. 94) and Kevin Williams must serve four-game suspensions for violating the NFL's policy on banned substances.
The pair were initially suspended in 2008 after a positive test for the banned diuretic Bumetanide. Claiming they didn't know it was an ingredient in the supplement they were taking, the players -- who are not related -- took their case to court, and they had successfully fought off the suspensions to this point.
Hennepin County Judge Gary Larson will still be asked by the players to keep an order in place that allows them to continue playing while their appeals are heard.
The lawyer for the players, Peter Ginsberg, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune the ruling is disappointing in a way.
"No employer can stand above the law, including the NFL," Ginsberg said. "We are obviously disappointed that despite violating Kevin and Pat's rights, the NFL still is threatening to suspend them. Kevin and Pat should be admired for the battle that they waged, not only for all NFL Players but for all employees throughout the State of Minnesota."
Larson heard a trial in March in which the players denied ever taking steroids, and both said they were taking StarCaps to make weight. At that time, Pat Williams' agent said his client may have to pay back a bonus he received for reaching his weight goal.
Angelo Wright ... acknowledged that his client might have to repay a $400,000 weight bonus because Williams apparently violated terms of his contract and the collective-bargaining agreement by using diuretics the night before weigh-ins.
If the pair remain suspended, it would be a potentially huge blow to the Vikings defense. Minnesota has developed a tradition for being nearly impossible to run against, and much of that reputation is due to the work of the so-called Williams Wall. Early games against New Orleans, Miami, and the Jets could prove problematic for the Vikings without their big men in the middle, not to mention the four-game suspension amounts to a five-week ban because of Minnesota's early bye (Week 4).
The absences would force guys like Fred Evans and Jimmy Kennedy into the spotlight, as they are the primary defensive tackle backups. Minnesota's four-man rotation at tackle is actually pretty good, but anytime you lose two top starters, the impact could be pretty serious.
Of course, these suspensions -- coming from drug tests conducted in late July 2008 -- still aren't official, and Ginsberg doesn't sound like he's ready to give up on the fight just yet. The next logical step is a trip to the Minnesota Court of Appeals. They are required to hear the case if requested, and the state's Supreme Court could still get a crack at it at some point in time.
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Hard day to be a Vikings fan
Man that’s double tough. Bad ruling for the Vikings from the MN Supreme Court on budget. Add on top of that the Vikings new stadium bill bleeding out and dying slowly through out the day. Finally mix in some more failure in court today. That’s just a bad, bad day.
It should have happened last year
but they postponed it again!
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
sounds familiar
just like the jolly trial————for drinking the purple kool-aid
I wonder if this outcome will have any affect on Favre deciding on whether he will retire or not
then again, we know he’ll drag this out until AFTER training camp.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Doubt it
DT is supposedly deep for this team. Also, while this will have a negative impact on the team as a whole it won’t directly affect Brett and any pressure he may face. Finally it’s only for four games, so the Vikes would still have plenty of time to rebound.
by PackApologist on May 6, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
True, the suspension is only 4 games but three of those 4 games are tough. Opening night on the road against New Orleans, then at home against Miami, and the 4th game is at the Jets. Interestingly, the Vikings bye week is in there as well so the suspension will actually be like 5 weeks, instead of four. Then those two big men will have to go 12 straight weeks without a bye week.
The Vikings may be deep at DT but I doubt they have two pro bowlers backing up the Williams’. Sorry, but Fred Evans and Jimmy Kennedy do not strike fear in my heart, and probably not many interior o-linemen either.
by bpjensen on May 7, 2010 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow, I didn’t realize they played the Saints, Dolphins, and Jets all in the first 5 weeks! That’s a tough schedule, and being without both Williams’ would hurt. If that was the case, look for Allen to be a non factor due to constant double teams, and despite his 2-3 great weeks last season I’m just not buying into the hype with Edwards. Plus, Henderson and Griffin will likely be out. Their run defense could be in trouble.
by packallday555 on May 7, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t know whether it will help make his decision, but we should see some bit of news here soon so he can steal the spotlight back. He can’t allow the biggest Vikings story to be about D-linemen and legislation!
by bpjensen on May 7, 2010 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can we suspend Jim Marshall while we're at it?
They’ll be retired by the time they finally serve their suspensions. The Minnesota government is a bunch of clowns.
And, btw, to everybody who thinks that Pat Williams was only taking diarhea pills because he’s just a fat guy who was having trouble making weight, think about this…
In addition to being a diuretic, bumetinide is also a masking agent. That means that, because he took this substance, we can’t tell what else he took. He could have taken the whole inventory of the BALCO laboritory and we wouldn’t be able to tell.
Now ask yourself this: could there possibly be a reason to suspect a player who’s career was undistinguished until he came to the Vikings in his 30s and suddenly became the immovable object? And this career resurgence continues to this day, as he’s still defying all normal expectations, playing at a high level even though he’s about 40! I mean, my goodness… can anybody find me a better suspect for steroid or HGH use?
All I can say is, if the Vikings have been beating the Packers only because they’ve been trotting out some roided-up juice-monkey, they better go down.
Just heard this aspect of the situation listening to KFAN, and it’s something to consider. I have tended to go along with the making weight aspect of them taking it but who really knows.
by packallday555 on May 6, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
That really is something to think about.
Never even crossed my mind to tell you the truth.
Adrian Pedestrian!! Now that's funny Mr. Bayless...
I just hate the angle of this story. The fact that they tried to make it come down to a state decision. This is a league policy and it shouldn’t come down to a federal or state decision. The league is trying to crack down on drug usage and instead it comes down to a local official (WHO IS A VIKING FAN) getting to make a decision. They had bias and STILL lost the case.
This is the problem
Minnesota has a different aproach to drug testing it’s residents. Mainly the issue is that the employee has to be able to find out what items are illegal for them to take. Because the NFL knew that Star Caps had the illegal masking agent in it they were under Minnesota state law responsable for putting that information into the players hands. Since they didn’t they get nailed in court for it.
As for Pat taking steroids, well after this case happened in 2008 Pat and Kevin were both forced to take mandatory steroid tests for the rest of that year. I think they did it on a weekly basis but that is something that I remember and can’t prove without looking back into it.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
And obviously we can’t really argue against this but like TrevorR said, the league is trying to crack down on any illegal substance use. From what I’ve gathered/heard listening PA talk about it on KFAN, is that it basically comes down to who is the Williams’ employer. The Vikings or the NFL? When I heard that it was easy for me to answer. Their employed by the Vikings, who are employed by the NFL. Though I’m sure the case gets much more complicated then that.
Ultimately, they just should have made weight. I mean come on, what else are they doing in the offseason? Playing video games?
by packallday555 on May 7, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
The NFL MUST be an even playing field for it to work. If drug legality is changed by state it threatens to destroy the fairness and equality of the league! I hope the local judicial systems recognize that and take it into account!
It can be fair
As Grime said above, the issue is supplying an exact list to the State, which the NFL didn’t do in this case. StarCaps wasn’t on this list and the ingredient which is banned in StarCaps wasn’t listed on the label. Therefore they find themselves in this mess.
As for being on steroids (mentioned above and not by you), and beating the Packers because of that, come on! They found out about this long ago and Phat Pat and KW remained at a decently high level all of 2009. Beating the Packers had nothing to do with that. There was no way they were still taking StarCaps or any other masking agent….
StarCaps
THe NFL told each individual TEAM that StarCaps might contain substances that would trigger a positive test!!! Don’t blame the NFL, blame the viqueens or the dumbass players for still taking it!!!
Take out the Williams’ and they could have easily lost to the Packers!!! So yes it did have something to do w/ it… It matters none at all if they were still taking it… but it does matter that they did take it!!! CHeating is what its called, and using ignorance as an excuse doesn’t change the FACTS!!!
by Strohman on May 8, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not going to debate this with you
Because you obviously don’t know all of the facts, or the issues in this case. When you do, I will discuss it further but not down at your level.
More likely cant...
Either way your making excuses cuz they’re on your team!!! THey BLEW it… F*CKED UP!!! Supplement companies are under no legislature as to what they put in the supplements, like pharmacueticals companies are!!! Put up or shut up would seem to apply in this case. Williams’ got caught and won’t shut up about it… Kinda like the trolls!
by Strohman on May 8, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
When fans of other team come over to our page
and engage in respectful diologue, I will show them the same respect that they display.
When trollettes show up and post like jackasses, they deserve to get it back with both barrels!
-
The glass is more than half-full.
I wasn't being disrespectful
So I hope you are not referring to me. Just because I won’t get dragged into a “who can go lower” battle doesn’t mean I am being disrespectful. I prefer debating without getting personal. If that’s the case here then I am all for it. If not, then I will simply end the conversation here.
Troll
Other than saying your a troll, which you are being a fan of another team on our site, I didn’t say a thing to stoop to any level… It was as much an invitation for you to give me your alleged facts as it was any thing else. You seeming to be unwilling to do so, leaves me w/ only one conclusion…
Gotta side with you here Purple
You are not a troll. Your fellow fan Dsludo is a troll, and I think he just gives you and the rest of you Vikings fans a bad rep due to his immaturity. I may not agree with your argument, but it is an argument and is nothing offensive towards us. Your comments are welcome here and I appreciate your insight.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Yeah, Purple isn’t a troll. Not one bit. He’s posted here for a while now, and has always been nothing but respectful.
by packallday555 on May 9, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
In my comment,
my first sentence referred to one kind of poster and my second sentence referred to another.
Dsludo is more who I had in mind with the latter.
-
The glass is more than half-full.
That is actually completely untrue.
Did you know that Rodgers is really elvis’s baby? Now I feel better because both of these statements are completly untrue.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Oh I wasn’t implying that the Viking wins were tainted…or did you take that from someone elses take?? Just saying this could open up a door for some crazy stuff.
Yeah
Someone else’s take above your comment.
This will drag on and on…. Phat Pat won’t ever be suspended and KWill will likely have to wait until 2011 to serve any suspension that may eventually happen.
Personally, I get the “you should have called the phone number to check” theory. But I also get the “it wasn’t listed as a banned substance” argument as well. I also heard that Phat Pat did call the number and was told “read the label” which didn’t show the banned substance.
I don’t know, I guess this falls on the fence as to what is fair and what isn’t fair in terms of “responsibility”. If Phat Pat did do that (call the number) and was told to look at the label then I believe they shouldn’t be banned. If he didn’t then I gues I lean with the ban. So, is there proof or not of that phone call?
Is it really necessary to constantly refer to him as "Phat Pat"?
by Charlie Kelly on May 9, 2010 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Geez...
Not sure why I wouldn’t. Most of the team refers to him as that, as well as many announcers. Why the chip on your shoulder?
excuses
Still making excuses I see… Supplements companies are not required to list every ingredient, nor for that matter the quantities of those ingredients!!! They aren’t governed by the FDA laws regarding phamacueticals… THey can make claims and add ingredients as they want to make it more effective… Kinda like the protein supps adding some forms of steroids. The ingredient added is a well known masking agent. The Williams’ should have had it tested on thier own to find out if something would lead to a positive drug test!!! Its the PLAYER responsibility to make sure what they put into their bodies!!! The Williams’ didn’t do that, so it it their fault!!! Your making excuses won’t change that!!!
So…lets say the appeal happens this year somehow still, you think Pat would just retire rather than be suspended? Just curious, hadn’t thought about that aspect until now.
Yes, I do
But I do believe this will be appealed to death. Kinda wish they would have served it last year and been done with it.
I hadn’t heard about the phone call but I am guessing its also something he can say and can’treally be proven it didn’t happen without forcing the phone company to do some scary phone tracking which won’t happen. I guess ultimately even if he didn’t know that he was taking something he shouldn’t its still something he did take. He’s not denying it. That kind of stuff happens in life sometimes ya know. It just seems like the classic American complex…nothing is ever our fault. We are fat because of McDonalds. We are dumber because of the schools. We are drunker because our teams don’t win every game…you get the picture! :-)
No doubt
The trigger was the clause about maing weight in their contracts. If they had just stayed off the fatty foods they probably wouldn’t even have had to take a weight loss pill. But who knows..
Yeah, the NFL has a number to call to check on banned substances. Problem is, StarCaps wasn’t banned so a phone call wouldn’t have turned it up. An ingredient in StarCaps is banned as a masking agent and no one listed StarCaps but probably should have.
I understand what your saying however, I think responsability lies on both parties.
This is it, they stated something was illegal. They give the teams and players lists of items they cannot use (because manufacturers don’t need to lable items on supplements). They knew that starcaps was using it, Star caps did not show that fact on their labeling. The Williams ate it to lose weight and got nailed for it. Where is the responsability? Why didn’t the NFL trickle this information down? This happened to several players not just the Williams.
To this same effect if you mix certain types of protien mixes they will create anabolic steroids in your system. People were doing this in sports ‘accidentally’ for a while. What would you do with them?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Good news for Packer fans
It could help us win the division. They may be deep but not deep enough to replace to starters on the D-line! This will hurt them. There seems to be a lot of distractions in Minnesota these days.
I can hear the faint sound of crying over at DN as we speak.
Well it’s all for the best, they needed a break from complaining about the Saints.
They are SO not going to be happy about that ruling...
But why would they be happy? This case is becoming more and more convoluted with every trial, hearing, and day that passes.
Kevin and Pat Williams will almost certainly appeal the ruling. There’s no way they’re just going to take something like that, whether or not they actually used steroids…
Let’s face it, if Raji and Pickett were getting suspended for this, we’d be upset too.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 6, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know much about this whole thing, so correct me if I'm mistaken.
But aren’t they in the wrong here? They took a masking agent for steroids that was part of the banned substance list? Whether it was to shed water weight or not, shouldn’t matter. And regardless of what was banned or not, if they were smart they would’ve gotten their fat asses to playing weight through working out, not taking diuretics.
Like I said, I’m not entirely sure of the situation but if a Packers player, whether it was Aaron Rodgers or Jarret Bush, had done wrong, I would be all for them serving their punishment.
by Charlie Kelly on May 6, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact is they took it.
The other fact is that the NFL never told them not to. There is an extensive list of what players cannot take. Star Caps was not on it. Also remember Kevin and Pat were not the only players to get nailed for doing this. There is a DE in NO that is waiting on this trial as well and a couple of more players who have already served their suspensions for it. Difference is that Minnesota required full disclosure, so if the NFL knew star caps was a banned substance they shoudl have told their employees. That’s where the rubs hits. Remember the Williams won the case. However the judge deemed that the penalty was not severe enough to warrant being dismissed.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
by Grime on May 7, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We’d be upset but I don’t know if we’d all go to bat for the guys like most viking fan friends I know. Most of them are buying into the wide eyed innocence of these guys.
Well first if it were players on your team you would know much more about the case
And you wouldn’t have the happy thought of your rival going 1-3 in the first four games. So there is a bit of an understandable bias working here :D
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
The biggest part of this story
Is that is that if the Williams Wall wins this, professional sports as we know it will be in a collectively bad position. It would mean that every professional sports league will not be able to effectively discipline a rule-breaker. Ouch. A very bad precedent has already been set and I am ashamed FOR the Vikings because they have no idea how very selfish they are for putting themselves above all professional sports, not just the NFL.
That is not entirely true. The Williams’ did win the aspect of the case that said the NFL violated Minnesota state law regarding the drug testing, but that the Williams’ were not harmed by this violation. Yet, the NFL is still punishing them. Although the NFL probably does not like the ruling that they are a joint-employer (could have bad consequences in other matters) the take from the case for the NFL is to be mindful of state law.
That is exactly the point though…by taking STATE law into effect it puts individual teams at an advantage depending on the state they are in OR forces the NFL to abide by the most lax of the state laws which puts the league in a bad position. Either way, its a big loss for the league. I agree with Welzy’s point.
by TrevorR on May 7, 2010 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The NFL could have changed this by making each player work for the NFL instead of the Team
This wouldn’t have even been that hard to do. However, doing that would open the NFL to other legal obligations that they do not want to fulfill. So the NFL made the decision it was better for each player to be owned by the team that hired them. It sucks for the NFL, but it’s one way they can keep their monopolistic practices happening. Think of it like this your a computer programer when you leave college you don’t pick where you go, you get picked up by a company, if the company gets tired of you it can trade you to a different company, however, you have no choice in any of this. Sound fair?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
A player in the state of Minnesota would still be subject to
personal jurisdiction of the state courts due to his work related activities. You couldn’t around personal jurisdiction by just working for an employer in another state, assuming Minnesota has a broad view of personal jurisdiction.
Sure if they are paying me millions of dollars and I get a few months off for vacation…yeah I think I could handle that!! I have a REAL hard time feeling sorry for these guys in that situation. They still chose to enter that field…its not like they don’t know what the situation is going into it. You take the good with the bad!
How about the guys that make a fraction of that and who's careers are measured in single years.
I understand what your saying and this is the real reason this practice is still around. This is taking the subject of discussion a bit off field though so I’ll drop it. :p
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
well now we are talking hypothetical though. I was talking about two specific players but yeah I hear ya. Even so, the guys that are making minimum wage in the NFL are still making a HELLUVA lot more money than any of us on here are (I assume). You take the good with the bad. The crazy money jobs come with some different rules (paprazzi, people money grubin, different expectations, etc). If they don’t like it, they can choose to work a normal job and be a normal person.
I get it though, it would suck if my job traded me to another company and I had to move my family…sure I would hate that. These people are all prepared for that though when take that job. That is all I am saying with it.
Yeah your correct on that point
It is what they picked for their life and honestly if I had the talent to play profesional football I would be doing it in a heartbeat. Not just for the money (although i wouldn’t turn it down) but also because football is the greatest game on earth.
It is hard feeling sorry for millionairs with summer vacation though.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I couldn't help but reflect on the popular question of: would you rather be a star in the MLB or NFL?
In the NFL, you get more injuries, but you also have less free time. You are always on the road in the MLB.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Dude NFL
Is there a choice? Foot ball is just way more fun.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Yeah I would take the NFL too. Too many games in the MLB…I might even do NBA over MLB I think. More money and more notoriety.
plus I'm not big into seeing my pee pee shrink
So no MLB for me…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
MLB more money and stay healthy with a longer career
I’m not a huge baseball fan but I think its an easy call with all the head and neck injuries in the NFL. I dont know what the average career span NFL to MLB is but Im sure its in favor of MLB. Though I love football so much more.
BUT the odds of making it to a team in MLB is SO tough. There are cagilllions of minor league teams where guys have to suffer through at legitimately low wages. At least in the NFL every team has 50 some guys on the roster and they all make pretty dang good money.
You are probably right about length of career in the MLB if you have some talent. Heck if Nick Punto from the Twins can get a multi million dollar contract, we all have hope!
The question was would you rather be a star in the MLB or NFL?
Nothing about minor league or about how tough it is to make the team. If I could be a star! It would be in baseball. Longer career, less injuries, more money and better life after the game due to injuries.
I suppose if there are state drug-testing laws out there that say you can’t suspend or fire an employee for testing positive for drugs, then you and Welzy are correct, it would put some teams at an advantage.
Are there any states that do so? No, that would pretty much make the drug-testing law meaningless. Even if some states allow for the employee to appeal all that generally does is drag out when the suspension will occur. I think it goes too far to say that the NFL will not be able to effectively discipline a rulebreaker. I have not seen too many states that seek to have a drug-using workforce. The NFL is going to say how horrible any ruling against them is but I don’t quite see the doom and gloom.
See and here your taking the NFL's side of the matter
So, by breaking the states law (which it does) the NFL should get off scot free? The NFL as an orginization already breaks several federal laws, most of them revolving around antitrust and fair compete. The draft is a completley illegal entity based on US law. However, becasue it’s the NFL it’s alright. Now it gets to toss aside state laws as well? It decides that it doesn’t really need to tell players what they shoudln’t do so they can nail them for it when they want to. That sounds fair your right?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
So basically we need to tear apart ALL of our sports leagues and rebuild them to fit by individual state laws? You see what these guys are opening up by not taking their punishment for cheating?
I like how suddenly these players think the system that made them MULTI MILLIONAIRES is suddenly so unfair and unjust. Poor babies…give me a break. See now I am just getting pissed off about it…you really want people to feel sorry for them? REALLY???
There just mad because
they will have to pay back the bonus money for making weight and losing pay for those weeks
I wouldn't say that however you will need to base them off state laws if your stating that the team owns the players and not the NFL.
However, the league is making billions of dollars they can afford the lawyers to set this kind of thing up. At least create a baseline that works with all states. This wouldn’t be completly impossible.
The real question is, do you just stop paying attention to state laws because people make lots of money? That sounds like a terrible idea to me.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
I guess something needs to change to avoid stuff like this. The league needs to operate independent of individual state laws in a way. Otherwise there is a real danger of certain teams being able to get different treatment. Imagine if MN is the place where guys can take masking drugs and SF is the place where guys can be on Marijuana, etc. I wonder if this will open the door for guys on teams in Cali to argue that they should be able to use pot since its legal there. I could probably think of other examples but you probably get the point.
I wonder if you can take all the state laws and just baseline it on the most severe.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
expand it...
to the entire season for being scofflaws who can’t just use the NFL’s system to appeal and suck it up.
by TrevorR on May 7, 2010 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
WOW !!! Uninformed and uneducated .
The first appeal will send the William’s case to the Supreme Court . In November either way it will go to appeals . This means Pat will retire uneffected . Later already given the right to sue by the Minnesota Courts . Kevin also sueing later will recoop any losses later with Star Caps & discrimination by the NFL already established for a later date . Any Kevin suspention will be in 2011 . Goodell already offered a no game suspention w/a heavy fine to recoop for lawyers and the future fallout .
I will say with the Brett situation you folks have more of a clue than most over at Dailynorseman though that sight is much better ran and respected over there . Yet , you lack the real info . Clouded no doubt by the schooling Brett gave twice & the fact that Brett’s replacement’s , replacement’s , replacement for the Pro Bowl was Rodgers and still no MVP . I will say what all Packer fans said to vike fans for years . When Aaron can win two playoff games two years in a row & win games in the 4th quarter against top 4 teams . Then and only then he can be discussed . He is an overly sacked pup with potential.
Anyone want to debate his crybaby tactics that forced Brett out of town because Aaron wanted released to play elsewhere . His blank stair at Brett’s award cerimony showed it all . He fears the embarassment that Brett unleashed & your team wasn’t good enough to make it thru one playoff game to face a third loss . The simulated version has you lose to Brett twice again but that’s a no brainer . You left us an open secondary twice so we could rest our RB’s a week .
Donnovan will be their next year . He will hook up with his ole syracuse OC and we will continue the dynasty of the north title .
Back to Brett . False Brett doesn’t need a simple scope . That was what caused this problem with swelling . Bone chips or spurs as they are called can be removed with a simple procedure . As the swelling subsides a screw will be placed to help rejoin the ankle and foot .The cronic swelling willleave with the spur removal and the screw will increase stability , dexterity , and the recovery time . I give 6-8 an extra two weeks because of age and the teams desire not to push it . The Pack used the same approach in the past so it should be hard for you to critisize .
Remember Dr. Goth says no crying when the wall and Brett show up on Purple Thursday to start the showw for 2010 . Some thing GB use to do before Aaron took the reins . You are predicted to go 10-6 since you forgot to move up to #34 and get Sergio Kindle from the Vikes . As you watch him in Baltimore you will begin to understand the wisdom of my dark projections ……………..
by gothicpurple on May 7, 2010 5:52 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
ummm....
I don’t know where this came from since the majority is on Brett and has nothing to do with the Williams’ case.
Rodgers wasn’t a replacement in the Pro Bowl at all.
If you think Washington is just going to let McNabb walk out of town you’re deluding yourself or insane.
Brett may or may not come back. I don’t think you’re finding many people here say anything but that he is…and if he does we savor an opportunity to hit him as bad as NO did in the Championship Game. What else would you expect out of fans.
And I don’t even know what you are talking about in the first paragraph. Maybe that there are two potential appeals, one to the US Supreme Court over federal jurisdiction and another appeal to the Minnesota Court of Appeals over the ruling on the merits of this case. And since there are so many varying appeals there may not be a practical suspension. Well if that’s what you were trying to say, well I guess I can see your point, but I don’t understand how any of the furthers the discussion.
I guess my point is this…Dr. Goth, please learn to form sentences before you submit us to your malpractice some more.
by PackApologist on May 7, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We've been working on him for months.
The good thing is he’s using paragraphs. Bad thing is it’s pretty arguementive.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
small and simple minded
THis case will go all the way to finding out if the NFL, NBA, MLB anit-trust policies are valid!!! THey will fight all the way to the bitter end and will not lose. THe NFL, and its constituent teams, will be at stake… The williams’s can do whatever they want w/ the starrcaps makers, it has NO bearing on this case! All the supplement companies regularly put things into their products that aren’t mentioned in the ingredients. You can go all the way back to the Protein supplements, which in many cases contained forms of steroids, but the players that tested positive for those supplements still got suspended!!! No matter, what the PLAYER is responsible for knowing what is going into his body… Not knowing the law, doesn’t excuse you from breaking it… Its that way all the way down to traffic laws!!! The Packers tell their players if they want to take supplements, that they need to get them tested using their own resources to determine if it contains anything that might reveal contents that will violate the NFL drug testing agreement!!! Also, the NFL sent each TEAM a letter warning the team that the Starrcaps contained this substance which would set off the testing violation!!! It not the NFL’s fault if the viqueens didn’t divulge that info the the Williams’ or if the Williams’ were still to stupid to take the supplement anyway!!!
In regards to #4… you can have him for one more season, MAYBE… After that you have NOTHING… And if you think the viqueens will sweep again, your a FOOL!!! Packers had problems w/ communication in the secondary that led to alot of the problems vs the elite QB’s. Those communication problems will be mostly non-existent this season!!! THe Packers are young and improving, thi viqueens are getting old and the window likely passed w/ the loss to the Saints!!! You have very little chance to reach that point again this coming season!!! Packers have youth, depth and gaining experience on thier side now, so I see a split of the games this seaon, followed by a couple years where the Packers sweep the viqueens!!!
by Strohman on May 7, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Supplements
Although I agree with most of what you say in your first paragraph, you miss the point that is the center to this case. The fact that Minnesota law was violated…. Minnesota law requires a clear list of what is banned, period. StarCaps wasn’t listed and that is the reason this war is being waged in the courts. It has nothing to do with players knowing what they put in their bodies in Minnesota because the law makes it simple. Provide a list and there is no issue…
Minn Law
Federal laws require pharmacuetical companies to list all addiitives… But the FDA doesn’t require that of supplements!!! Supplement companies are not under the jurisdiction of the FDA! So cry fool all you wish, but the company isn’t under any such requirements. If that is the case, then all suplements must be pulled from every shelf of every store that sells supplements in Minn… Thats not happening, so the excuse fails!!!
Your argument is flawed
. Minnesota law requires a clear list of what is banned, period. StarCaps wasn’t listed and that is the reason this war is being waged in the courts.
If what you say is correct then the NFL doesn’t have to list Starcaps as being banned it just has to list the substance in Starcaps that is banned. It would be equivalent to being told you can’t have alcohol in your system then sueing for getting caught with Ketel One Vodka in your system and saying your rights were violated because they didn’t list every brand of alcohol.
Every man must believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink.
No I get the argument. They are saying the substance that is banned wasn’t listed as an ingredient on the product so they didn’t know they were taking it. I still don’t think these guys were THAT innocent and after it was in their system the league has NO clue. Interestingly enough, both Kevin and Pat had down years last year statistically from 2008 when he destroyed the league with 60 tackles and 8.5 sacks from the DT position. Those numbers were way up from the surrounding seasons. Maybe it was a coincidence…but maybe not. The problem is that we’ll never know! :-)
haha…someone let a 14 year old on the board! What a laughable post. Hey I hope you enjoyed that super bowl victory Brett got you last year! oh whoops sorry man thats right your team has still never won a title even when you borrow our winners! Guess what, Brett is just USING your team to try get back because we were done with him. He can all the nice stuff he wants to cheer you up but in the end he’s using you guys and you are STiLL failing! Pretty sad really.
Donovan isn’t coming to the vikings. The Redskins will franchise him if they don’t sign him up to a LT deal during the season.
Pathetic fans like you....
Look at all the personal attacks responding to one post by gothic. You’re all the same. Why not try to have a discussion instead of all throwing out insults? ACME has the most immature posters out of any SBN site that I’ve been to.
there's another
js online is where all the nut jobs are
C'mon guy
If ANY poster shows up on DN and says some things that you guys don’t like, people grill the shit out of that poster. Hell, even Gonzo, who is supposed to be the head of blog, setting an example for everyone else takes part in the grilling.
If someone over there who is a Viking fan posts something that the majority of the other Viking fans don’t agree with, you guys practically run him off the blog. Multi-lakes, KC Viking, and Viking83 are just a few guys who come to mind.
The fact is gothic came over, and posted a comment with 3 sentence pertaining to this thread, with the other 20 sentences having no relation. You’ve been on the SB blogs long enough to know that people usually don’t like that. Too add to that, basically everything he said was a comment that he knew would provoke people to respond to him in a not so nice way. Oh, and then there’s the fact that he posted something like this on almost EVERY one of our most talked on threads. The guy clearly came here trying to provoke the posters here, and I’m pretty sure he could have guessed that many wouldn’t respond in a very nice way.
Don’t come over here talking down to us from your high horse. You and I both know damn well that you guys would have responded the exact same way to an opposing fan saying some pretty far-fetched things.
by packallday555 on May 8, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Personal attacks huh…lets look for some personal attacks:
I will say with the Brett situation you folks have more of a clue than most over at Dailynorseman though that sight is much better ran and respected over there .
There was one attack on this website
Yet , you lack the real info
An attack that we don’t know anything
…Brett’s replacement’s , replacement’s , replacement for the Pro Bowl was Rodgers and still no MVP .
A poor and untrue attack on Rodgers
That was just his first one. Amazingly it was filled with half truths and hopeful thinking…very little real insight at all. Much like all of your posts when you come over here man. Can you just PLEASE post something with content and not half hearted attempts to rip on us. It makes all the rest of the viking fans look really bad!
ACME has the most immature posters out of any SBN site that I’ve been to.
Only when dsludo stops by!! Wow you are a real treat!
Easy Trevor
No need to throw attacks like that. I am sure you can make your point without crossing the line into personal attacks on all Viking fans! Trust me, I could have easily responded to this in a similar fashion but choose not to. I hope you will take this and use it for future reference instead.
I just called him a 14 year old…lets not get our panties in a bundle. Much worse things were said that that.
What personal attack did I make on Viking fans anyway? I think you misread something PurpleJesus!
Panties in a bundle!
Ha! :-)
I just felt the “how did you enjoy that Super Bowl last year” comment was crossing the line. Frankly, if you ask my opinion, we were probably the best team in the NFL last year and Peterson blew it, not Brett. Brett did all he could to try and bring us back given he was working on half a body. Peterson blew the Bears game late in the season, which was the difference in home field advantage, and then blew the hell out of the Saints game…. Now I get the anger toward Brett but if you are honest and step back Brett severely overachieved and Peterson severely underachieved. That was the difference.
It was definitely a team effort in blowing that game
But they were still in the game when Brett made that play that a pop warner QB would frown upon. Oh, and as for the best team in the NFL, the best team in the NFL wouldn’t have handed over a conference title to a supposed lesser team like the Vikings did.
by Charlie Kelly on May 9, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Matter of opinion
Emotion doesn’t enter into my view. I like Peterson and Brett so I place more value on my position than that of an arch rival.
Oh, and the game shouldn’t have been close except for Peterson. Fumbling twice within the 8 yd line, out playing them 475 yds to 211. Not even close in my opinion had he not given the ball away twice in scoring position. Then giving the Bears the ball in OT after our team just held them and was driving. Ugh… Hate to say it but Peterson cost us big time, not Brett….. For that matter, your view would be like… if Syney Rice fumbled and then the Saints drove and won.. Then trying to say Rice cost us the entire season. Proposterous really… We were in the NFC Championship because of Brett, not the other way around. Brett didn’t give up a potential 14 points in the redzone and cost us home field advantage thorughout. Peterson did.
I get the defending Favre take…honestly we did it for a decade and a half. I think in a couple years you’ll look back on that game differently like we do now when we look back. Its always a team effort though and the game could have been SO different if Peterson would learn how to hold the ball (he seems so arrogant about how he holds it…it could be the downfall of an amazing RB if he isn’t careful). But still the game was yours…it was yours until that last play.
Bad pass
No doubt… But I don’t think he could have run far enough for the FG try. Could be wrong but I believe a 5-6 yds run still made it a 52+ Yd FG. Like you said, it should have been a far different game and probably should have never come down to that play. Team fail, yes…
If Favre would have just slid where he threw it, it would have been a 56 yard attempt
difficult, but not impossible. They say he could have ran for 5-10 yards, but it was a guarantee to get at least 3-5. I think he would have picked up 5 yards, which is what the smart thing was to do. On top of all that, you never, ever, ever, throw across your shoulder when the game is on the line. Favre costed you in the end like he did it for us for so long, but he didn’t lose that game alone.
Peterson definately costed you more than what Favre did. No doubt there. I must say, most Viking fans I come across on different blogs are still blaming the refs (never understood that logic considering NO had twice the number of penalties), yet you don’t. Props to you on that. I can’t say all Packer fans any other fans aren’t like that though, as some are childish in blaming the refs. Sure the whole facemask on Rodgers in our playoff game was frustrating, but the refs aint perfect. Our D lost us the game and we shouldn’t have been in that situation in the first place.
In reference to an earlier post of yours though, I gotta oppose you on this one. I never thought MN was the best team. NO was the home team because they were the better team. They won the Superbowl because they were the best team. NO played a bad game too, their offense was completely out of sync.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Agree with most of what you say
As for the Vikes or NO being the best, well a bad game isn’t being outgained 475 to 211 in yards at home! 7 miscues and lost 5 of them and still being in a position to win at the end. Come on, admit it, you know who was better!
Then why was NO the home team?
Why did NO beat you?
Why did NO win the Superbowl?
because….they are the better team. The best team always finds a way to prevail.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Not always the best team wins
Think about that statement. We wouldn’t have upsets if the best team always won. Sorry, but in this case, the best team didn’t win the game.
Haha funny you mention it. I was just thinking that reading through the comments.
by packallday555 on May 9, 2010 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
The best team doesn't turn the ball over that much
Sorry man, but you can say all you want about who had more total yards or how the Vikings still had a chance despite the turnovers but the fact of the matter is, if the Vikings were the better team, they wouldn’t have had that many turnovers.
by Charlie Kelly on May 9, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
Disagree. There is no way we would turn the ball over that many times again. Heck we never turned the ball over 3X in a game all year and then this game. We gave the game away despite outplaying them offensively and defensively. The giveaways cost us (2 inside the 8 yd line).
Its about more than yards. Turnovers are a HUGE aspect of winning. Whether its an anomoly or not, your team played sloppy and let a team who didn’t play a very good game offensively win. If you rematched they probably wouldn’t play such a poor game either. They were one of the top offenses in the league and were totally out of sync for more of the game…that would also be considered an anomaly.
Perhaps that is true
Unfortunately, we will never know. That is, of course, unless the Vikes hold them to under 250 yards again on opening night. Then you could say we have their number on defense.
And yes, TO’s are part fo the game and we did give the game away. No argument there. I was just trying to say I thought that offensively and defensively, we outplayed them but handed them the win by putting the ball on the ground—sometimes unprovoked!
I didn't say the best team always wins
But you’re making it seem as though the Saints getting several takeaways is anomaly and that in no conceivable way could it happen in a rematch. The Saints were second behind Green Bay in takeaways with 39.
by Charlie Kelly on May 9, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Anomaly
7 miscues, 5 given away, when they never had more than 3 in a game all year? Yes, anomaly and it wouldn’t happen again.
To that point….So, second behind GB with 39. That is what, like an average of 2.5 per game? Certainly not 5! Yes, 5 is an anomaly by a team that didn’t give up many all year!
Look, it was a close game in terms of score. That’s it. And NO had home field…. Obivously it is hard to debate a game that will never be replayed. Heck, even this year the game is in NO again!
That's just it though, it's this year, not last year
both MN and NO will have 2 different teams and each will have a different kind of “swagger.”
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
That coudl deal with strength of schedule as well as anything else
but I will say this, NO knows how to win. They didn’t win pretty all the time, but they did keep on winning.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Yeah
we were both pretty lucky to have easy schedules. This year will be a lot more difficult for the NFC North. Although I feel the NFC North is a lot better this year, I don’t think we’ll see another Norse team in the playoffs as a Wild Card.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
I don't know abotu that
If Favre comes back, both of our teams will be on top of the NFC. I can see both of us winning a lot of games, even with tougher schedules.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Oh it was a low blow but look how condescending that post was. look at the jabs he took at the packers and at Rodgers. Oh and a REAL low blow toward this website and the people posting on it. He was being an ass so I returned serve. I try to not go there cause I hate that but he came in with a real snooty (and incorrect) take. Nothing personal toward you PJ…I actually like you and you usually have decent takes on stuff. Just keep guys like this and DSLudo on your own site and you’ll get much better responses from the rest of us when you come over!
Yeah...agreed
It was a condescending post. Somehow, you just can’t keep idiots from posting stupid stuff at times. I would have preferred if you made it personal toward him and not toward all Viking fans in general however because there are “some” good people who root for the purple… That’s all.
By the way, I have been saying for a year that Donovan is positioned perfectly to go to the Vikes in 2011. Of course, that was pre-Shanahan, or Redskins, which now really complicates it… I do think he will become a free agent unless the Redskins do really well this year. Either way, not sure how I feel about that. I think I would like Rosey or TJack to get a chance.
If I were a Vike fan, I would oppose it
He will be another year older and still hasn’t won the Superbowl. He had better teams around him in Philly, so I don’t think he would get the job done in MN. MN needs to start over at the QB position.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Better teams in Philly?
This Viking team is no slouch. 6th in Defense, 6th in Offense. How many Pro-Bowlers? How can you say his teams in Philly were better?… I realize they went to the SB with him and lost and a few NFC Championship games, but I take that more as the years the NFC was weak and Philly was, well, ok and not great. Donovan led them most of the time to overachieve. Unfortunately, I don’t think he has big game potential in him.
I would have opposed the heck out of it
If we’d picked up a QB prospect this year. However, since the Vikes seem to be a team that never has a QB, Childress has obviously succumbed to this ideology.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
As a pakcer fan
I would also love to see Rosenfals or Jackson get a chance too.
Every man must believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink.
learned
I would say after 5+ years in the NFL, both Sage and T-Jack have learned about as much as they are going to… QB’s generally have a 3 year leaning curve in the NFL and both of those guys have been in the league for a minimum of 5 yrs. Can the still get better? Yes, a little… But they aren’t going to suddenly turn into Pro Bowl QB’s.
Extremely unlikely… You would be better off dumping both and starting over, IMO…
by Strohman on May 9, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am higher on Rosenfels
Because I don’t think TJack has the intelligence when he steps to the line. Rosey simply hasn’t played with a good team around him and I would like to see it.
good team
That may be true, but he has never won a starting job outright either!!! Your trying to make a case for him based on him not being on good teams, but that doesn’t change the fact that he has never been a starter!!! I just don’t see him suddenly becoming good or better, after 7? yrs in the NFL… And who were the QB’s he was behind? Any All Pro’s other than #4?!!! I suspect not based on the fact none of the teams were any good!
Roseypalm is better :D
It even sounds vaugly QBish
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
His team may not be great
But he did have Andre Johnson and Steve Slaton. Also, Matt Schaub has done fine with pretty much the same team.
by Charlie Kelly on May 10, 2010 5:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Let me reword that
He played from behind a lot and was forced into trying to catch up. It could be far different with the Vikings as their defense can keep you in the game and not chasing from behind.
No we wont
Enjoy Brett while he is there! I mean this a respectful as possible. You guys are Super Bowl contenders if Brett comes back(by if I mean when). If he does not, well then your a playoff contender. Neither Sage or T Jack will be good quarterback. Before Brett came to Minn everyone said your a QB away and if he leaves you will be a quarterback away again.
by Sproo44 on May 11, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I hate it that your right but you are
I have no idea what the hell that damn Leprechaun Childress is thinking not picking up a QB this year.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
If he's a leprechaun then Favre was his pot of gold!
He went from hot seat to contract extention because of him.
I just felt the "how did you enjoy that Super Bowl last year" comment was crossing the line.
Maybe it would have been, if it hadn’t been a reply to a trollette going on a rival’s site and “crossing the line” first.
As I have said before,
when a poster does that, they deserve to get it back with both barrels.
It is just unfortunate that more respectful fans get caught in the crossfire sometimes, and feel slighted.
But, if you feel that way, then maybe you should say something to Gothic!
-
The glass is more than half-full.
I will say with the Brett situation you folks have more of a clue than most over at Dailynorseman though that sight is much better ran and respected over there . Yet , you lack the real info.
So wait, is it that we have more of a clue or that we lack info? Seems a little contradictory.
I will say what all Packer fans said to vike fans for years . When Aaron can win two playoff games two years in a row & win games in the 4th quarter against top 4 teams . Then and only then he can be discussed . He is an overly sacked pup with potential.
Fair enough. Judging by his performance last year against the Cardinals, as long as our defense can show up for him he shouldn’t have a problem winning a couple playoff games.
Anyone want to debate his crybaby tactics that forced Brett out of town because Aaron wanted released to play elsewhere . His blank stair at Brett’s award cerimony showed it all . He fears the embarassment that Brett unleashed & your team wasn’t good enough to make it thru one playoff game to face a third loss .
Haha is this some of the “real info” we lack? If so, thanks for your speculation.
Donnovan will be their next year . He will hook up with his ole syracuse OC and we will continue the dynasty of the north title .
I guess it’s a possibility, and would probably be smart since Jackson probably won’t be able to lead you to a division title, or any wins against us. Though I doubt the Skins don’t end up signing him for 2-3 more years. Even if you do get him though, I’m not sure what that means for your franchise. Jumping from Qb to Qb every year isn’t the best way to build a franchise, and when you run out of good veteran Qb’s to sign where is that going to leave you? Seems like it’s all or nothing for these next 2-4 years. I have a feeling your team isn’t going to be looking so hot after that though….
Back to Brett . False Brett doesn’t need a simple scope . That was what caused this problem with swelling . Bone chips or spurs as they are called can be removed with a simple procedure
No one said he needed a simple scope did they? You go on a little more to talk about his likely recovery period and then end with “The Packers used the same approach so it should be hard for you guys to criticize.” Haha and why would we argue or criticize?
You are predicted to go 10-6 since you forgot to move up to #34 and get Sergio Kindle from the Vikes . As you watch him in Baltimore you will begin to understand the wisdom of my dark projections ……………..
Eh, wouldn’t have been so smart. Rumor has it that Kindle may not even play this season. Rumor also has it that he needs micro-fracture surgery, which has historically stripped some guys of their great athleticism. Keep in mind, he was supposed to go in the top 15, and maybe even the top 10.
by packallday555 on May 8, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Another thing is, I don’t think anyone has a problem with you posting here (at least they shouldn’t). Can you at least try and talk about the topic on point? You wrote your whole post on like 4-5 different topics, and wrote it as if you were responding to things we had said about those topics previously in this thread—- yet I don’t think anything about Favre, Rodgers, or our predicted record were mentioned in this thread by anyone.
by packallday555 on May 8, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup
Rodgers was the third string QB and the only QB actually elected by the fans coaches and players to the Pro Bowl to go to the Pro Bowl.
Sorry you fail try again.
by PackApologist on May 8, 2010 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Paragraph one is called undiluted facts . as hard as it is for you to take in .
Ask Grimes if my info has ever been disproved .
Sure.
And, we’ll just ask you how reliable that would be.
That will settle things, once and for all. LMAO.
-
The glass is more than half-full.
I hate that you brought me into this
Your facts are spurious (I watched Snatch last night) Usually, I’ll try and back a viking fan just because comraderie and that type of jack. However, your post was fairly off topic and many of the points you made were either assumptions or opinions that you hold. Lastly, and I hate to say this again because I shouldn’t have to, your writing style is extremely difficult to understand at times. You do make some good points in your comment, but they come across as argumentative.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
by Grime on May 10, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Spurious...nice touch.
spu·ri·ous /ˈspyʊəriəs/ Show Spelled[spyoor-ee-uhs] Show IPA
–adjective
1. not genuine, authentic, or true; not from the claimed, pretended, or proper source; counterfeit.
2. Biology . (of two or more parts, plants, etc.) having a similar appearance but a different structure.
3. of illegitimate birth; bastard.
I prefer the use of definition #3 in this case!
by TrevorR on May 10, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Come on boys ! The real debate is how will it effect a precious last year to make a run ?
Like the old days if Brett plays the NFL wins . Read a little closer . The Williams’ were already given permission to sue the NFL in Minn Court . Your arguement is lost even though I care less about winning . I am just trying to help a few simple minded fans see facts that have already been established . Pat will REtire and the Vikes will reload and the battle will continue. I’ll get back with you . You seem a little shell shocked . Soak this old info in a little and offer a real rebuttal over at the Daily . We’ll see if you are always this miss informed .
Gotta say you got stones
I’m impressed.
To accuse use of being misinformed when you come in, talk about nothing that the article or conversation is about (both here and in another post on this site), spew misinformation(such as Rodgers being an alternate to the Pro Bowl and the notion that McNabb will end up in Minny next year), and then call us uninformed.
Bravo.
Thank you for reaffirming the image of the douche bag Viking fan we all come to know and love. Grime, Purple Jesus, if you guys are reading this keep it real and keep representing a form of Viking fan that knows football unlike this dude.
by PackApologist on May 8, 2010 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly…another person that makes us realize that the majority of Viking fans are douches…there are some pretty cool guys but you, my friend, are a dumbass. A misinformed dumbass!
by TrevorR on May 8, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will form a sentence when you sir can form a third gade opinion or higher .
Simple writings for a simple mind .
Welzy
You areright . The real question has apppeared for this pointless article . As it plays out you will understand why true wisdom needs no text or structure as you say . My hurdle of text and the truth must go know LOL .
Stro
The fool of 2009 will win again in 2010 . Deal with reality .
so you are picking the saints to win
good to know
Every man must believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink.
Bravo PAD55 I pump him for insight daily over at the Daily & he passes today .
1. My first real point is that the trial will go to appeals .
2. The only thing to cause the rant was Grimes snivelling .
3. Thanks for the info on Kindle .Informative .
4. I like to get to the point and read between the lines at the same time .
5. I can’t stand people that know a simple fact and pretend it isn’t so ….
6. Deflection , and correction of my grammer showss lack of substance .
I am a dedicated fan with plenty of positive and negtive Packer stories . An interesting note into figuring a guy like me out . I’ve only had one pair of tickets in GB . A diehard Packer fan friend of mine who adopted the lifestyle from their father who passed in their youth . It was a strong connection to their father whom I never me that allowed me to hand over the tickets to some one who would never otherwise full fill that dream . tha’s a true fan ! I have a special love – hate relationship with all Packer fans so get tougher with me I can take it . Next time try to flex your brain at me because there isn’t many musclles in those fingers that you use to defend your team . Don’t protect yourelf against me protect your team’s integrity .
Dude, you really gotta start using the reply button.
5. I can’t stand people that know a simple fact and pretend it isn’t so ….
Same here, I just didn’t see any “simple facts” in your original post. Rather just your opinions on some things.
6. Deflection , and correction of my grammer showss lack of substance .
I don’t even think it’s your grammar necessarily. More so all the rambling. You jump from one point to another with virtually no build up or hint that your about to change subjects. It can just be hard to follow, especially when your typing your replies to people but not actually replying under their comment.
by packallday555 on May 9, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sorry you think I'm snivelling?
Seriously? Because I don’t, you know what, I’m not going to get into this with you. Arguing on a blog is like competing in the special olypics, even if you win your still retarded.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
by Grime on May 10, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahaha oh god. I shouldn’t be laughing as hard as I am right now.
by packallday555 on May 10, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Glad you liked it
I find it oddly ironic that I’m arguing with a Viking fan on a Packer board…
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Packer Backer I ment no disrespect for ignoring your irrelivent story .
Take a tip from Gonzo . He simply shoves all my comments in a corner file until his buddies groom his EGO than a day later they appear looking like ramblings . Thanks for allowing a voice to a avid yet oddly somewhat respectful of the ones with no GOds .
do you know how to use the reply function?
or are you just writing this way to be annoying?
Every man must believe in something, I believe I'll have another drink.
gothicpurple go away
Your an idiot and I know your hick A$$ probably can’t read very well. You guys swept us last year and we still ended the season with just one more loose than you. We are younger than you with a lot more talent! I hope Favre does not come back so you guys can go back to an average team like you were before. Gothicpurple? Nice! Gothicidiot sounds about right. Like your momma says "stupid is as stupid does" and you seem pretty stupid. By some mirable if Favre can keep you in it next year I promise you last year is as close as you will get to winning a super bowl! You will not win one with Brett and you know neither of your back ups will ever sniff a Super Bowl and by the time you find another good QB the rest of your squad will be beaten up and aged. Just keep worrying about if the old gun slinger will come back because if he doesn’t start worrying about beating Detroit and keeping your team in Minnesota! You jag-bag!!!!!
Haha and like always, I have ZERO idea what your talking about. LMAO.
by packallday555 on May 9, 2010 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I hope your sister is one more loose than me !
I am from the state with the highest education in the land . My deliberately irritating style is to help you focus on the wisdom of my words . God only gives you young fella’s your intelligence for a little while . I’m here to find the big picture and razz a few couch warriors ! ENDULGE ME !!!!!!!!The Bears Sux but the Packers SSSWWWallloooowwww!!
Good grief
You are giving both Minnesota and all Viking fans a bad name. ESPN has a blog too. Perhaps they need some help over there?
+1
Thank you Purple.
Like I said earlier, it’s great to go back and forth with Vike fans like you and Grime. People who form arguments, give good thoughts and insights, and just give us Packer fans another perspective.
On the other hand, I just don’t get what “Dr. Goth” is really trying to say most of the time…and what I do understand just come off as some sort of insult cause I don’t root for the same team as he does.
by PackApologist on May 10, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Same to you and your Pack faithful
For all of our sake….Hopefully gothic will tone it down a bit and be more clear in his thoughts. And on top of that, learn how to use the “reply” button.
Just pointing out that we all have that human element of being wrong at times .
I just embrace it more than most . So Aaron was third then ? Thanks for the correction . thanks for also acknowledging Brett was first . Like old times Aaron only plays when Brett sits . I believe third place was last place wasn’t it ?
It is also true that half the things I write are strong opinion and the other half is predictions of the near future . Sorry my Vike comrade for not narrowing down the info .
Back on topic . Can any Pack loyalist see the truth in an Appeal to a higher court that should hold off suspension talk until the next round of Appeals . Phat Pat will retire. Kevin may elect to serve his at the end of the season as our schedule softens . Opinion ? No. All this info has already been posted previously ? I will say that Pack fans don’t seem to care either way this Starcaps thing , but cuss some kinda reply would ya ????
I think in reality most people here want the Wall out of four games
For obvious reasons, we are their competition in this conference. Many people on this site look at this as Kevin and Pat trying to cheat the system and lay the blame on the two men as people who did not do due diligence on the supplements that they took.
Now, as Viking fans we of course disagree, and think that the NFL (who did know that bumetide was in star caps) had the duty to tell all of their players that it was a banned substance, especially since it was not on the packaging. This hit not just the Vikings but several other teams as well. Some of the people hit already have done their suspensions. Others have not. The question isn’t what the NFL can do to their players, the question is does the NFL have to respect state laws. Hopefully the answer is yes.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Hopejully NOT
You bettter hope that the NFL doesn’t have to respect state law!!! IF it does they lose their status in regards to anti-trust policies… And if that happens it would open up a whole can of worms that would change the NFL for the worst!!! THe NFL now has inti-trust exception, but as I said in a post earlier, the NFL loses that status and the NFL you know now changes DRASTICALLY!!! And it wouldn’t be for the better!!
Your being selfish and shortsighted!!!
No actually I agree with you.
The NFL does have a dispensation like MLB dealing with anti trust laws and honestly I think it’s a great thing. However, the NFL doesn’t want to own the players, so that means each team owns them which puts them into the states balliwick (word of the day calander rocks!) No, the CBA needs to be recreated in much the same way it was previously, we don’t need to see a bunch of crazy stuff happen in the NFL based on state laws and what not.
However, the NFL cannot have it both ways. If they are going to push relegation onto the teams then the state does start to play a part in how each team has to deal with its players. It’s just the way things are done.
Honestly, if the NFL had been forthright with their information about Star Caps I can pretty much 100% garuntee the Williams and NO’s Smith would not be in the position that they are in today.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Well no, third place is third place. There are 13 other Qb’s out there in the NFC that didn’t make the the Pro Bowl. Another thing to consider, the Pro Bowl is pretty much based soley on reputation. I mean McKinnie made the Pro Bowl..I know you watched the same McKinnie I did, and I don’t think he was anywhere near the top of the list for LT’s.
Well, I think we’d like to see the wall out. Losing the 2 of them hurts your defense. You guys also have a tough first 4 games this year, so you guys dropping a couple could help us in the division race.
by packallday555 on May 10, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Hell Winfield made the pro bowl...
I lost a lot of respect for the probowl this year, and honestly most of it was because a lot of Vikes made it that were pretty darn sketchy votes. I mean I liked it that we had like 9 go to the pro bowl, but really?
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Don't forget McKinnie was a pro bowler too
Also, Tahi was in over Leonard Weaver.
by Charlie Kelly on May 10, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the Favre factor
Look at all the pro bowlers with the Jets. Than the Vikings last year. Is there a team in the NFL that has had more pro bowlers the last two years as Favre’s teams? I doubt it.
Actually the Jets only had four pro bowlers that year besides Favre
Alan Faneca, Nick Mangold, Thomas Jones, and Kris Jenkins. Alan Faneca has gone before, Nick Mangold went this year aswell, and Thomas Jones was one of the top rushers in 2008. I don’t think it has anything to do with Favre, I think it has more to do with a team’s record seeing as how good teams are more popular and the Pro Bowl is glorified popularity contest.
by Charlie Kelly on May 10, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I had to look it up...
The Jets had 7 pro bowlers. Only team that had more was the Titans in 2008. And I think in 2009 the Vikings had the most.
QB Brett Favre
RB Thomas Jones
OG Alan Faneca
C Nick Mangold
DT Kris Jenkins
CB Darelle Revis
KR Leon Washington
I forgot Washington and Revis
But to say that they all made it because of Favre is ridiculous. In 2008, Dallas had the most pro bowlers while I believe Green Bay only had four. In 2007, Dallas was one of the best teams so more pro bowlers. In 2008, Tennessee was one of the best teams, and in 2009, Minnesota and Indianapolis were two top teams thus more pro bowlers. It has nothing to do with Favre.
by Charlie Kelly on May 11, 2010 5:49 AM CDT up reply actions
You could be right...
It could have absolutely nothing to do with Favre.
But it is a little ironic that there is not one single team in the NFL with more pro bowler’s the last 2 years as Favre’s teams. Probably just a coincidence.
Well you can make the argument that the offensive guys could be a result of the FAvre factor, but not the defensive ones. The Jets had 4 offensive, 2 of which were offensive lineman. None of his WRs made it…nor his TEs. His RB did though which I can see you attributing to a Favre factor.
Could be. We all know how the media loves Favre.
by packallday555 on May 10, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
blog cred?
is that a step above street cred?
damn, got to get me some of that.
Cred as in credability!
His post have false statement false facts and false stats in it and hermitcrab you know you have street cred!
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