Start: Who Should Back Up Aaron Rodgers?
by Brandon on Jun 16, 2010 8:00 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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PrintWhile it's worthwhile to debate who the Green Bay Packers should start on the offensive line, it isn't worth the digital space it takes up in Google's search engine to discuss whether someone should start ahead of QB Aaron Rodgers. But who should back him up?
QB Matt Flynn. Maybe the Packers have gotten lucky that Rodgers has taken a pounding over 33 straight starts and they haven't had to see exactly how good Flynn really is. He's only thrown 17 regular season passes in two seasons, so that's no judge of him. From what I've seen in preseason games, he could become Aaron Rodgers-lite. This is a big training camp and preseason for him to take the jump from potential QB to quality backup. Mike McCarthy said Flynn is having an "outstanding offseason."
QB Graham Harrell. McCarthy also said he was impressed by Harrell's velocity and thinks he has a chance to make it in the NFL. He might be a candidate for the practice squad, but it seems a stretch to think he'd be better than Flynn at this point. I still like this signing, but not as the top backup.
I'm sorry QB Noah Shepard, but I'm ignoring the fact that you're on the roster. Hey, feel free to prove me wrong but I can't remember the last undrafted free agent QB that stuck with the Packers, and I'd pick Harrell before you for the practice squad.
I hate to bring up the dregs of the free agent market, but a couple of name QBs remain unsigned. The Packers have entertained thoughts of signing a veteran QB in each of the past two years.
This list from ESPN isn't updated, but it gives you an idea of who is and was available.
QB Marc Bulger. They aren't sad to see him go over at Turf Show Times, where Bulger was seen as the problem with the offense in St. Louis. The numbers seem to back this up, but he also has classic backup QB stats with a completion percentage around 58% and a TD to INT ratio of about one-to-one over the past three seasons.
QB Daunte Culpepper. I linked to it earlier, but the Packers actually offered him a contract two years ago. But he doesn't want to sit on the bench and he might actually prefer to start in the UFL rather than hold a clipboard in the NFL. He's a shell of his former self, but he is still better than some QBs signed to NFL contracts.
QB Sage Rosenfels. While not a free agent, the Vikings are showing him no love and letting anyone off the street take reps during OTAs before him. I expect he'll be cut as soon as QB Brett Favre shows up in camp. He didn't throw a pass in 2009, but his 2007-2008 stats are better than Bulger's.
QB JaMarcus Russell. I would question GM Ted Thompson's sanity if he signed him.
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The case for Flynn
The best thing I can say for Flynn is that he reminds me of Doug Flutie. It helps that my first real memory of him with the Packers was the last second winning play in the pre-season a couple years ago, but still the image is burned in my brain. He’s not real tall, he doesn’t look like the protypical QB, but the dude wins when you get him on the field.
Add into that the fact that he’s been in the system for a few years now and knows it better than most of the free agents or other two guys listed here, and I think that Flynn is a fine back up.
Wow
Really searching for new material if you’re bringing this up again… LOL
Flynn will be the backup, at this point there is no doubt about it… The list of FA QB hasn’t included any new names in quite awile, and is pathetic at best!!! THey offered Culpepper a contract but that was when Flynn and Brohm were rookies. Last year they didn’t… I don’t think the Packers ever entertained signing a vet FA QB last year at all… They had already gone thru one season w/ Flynn and Brohm and were fine w/ that again last year!!!
Flynn is actually the same size as Rodgers and Favre!!! All are 6’2 and in the 220 range. I liked Flynn alot coming out of LSU and hoped the Packers would draft him. He doesn’t always look the part, but kids a winner and a playmaker! He is not likely to be a quality starter at this level, but he’s an extremely competent backup, IMO. At some point he’ll be given a shot to start somewhere in the league, but it won’t be in GB.
QB Depth Chart
1. Rodgers
2. Flynn
3. Harrell
I like the signing of Harrell too, but Flynn is basically turning into an unproven veteran while Harrell still has question marks, although he had a more than stellar college career. I followed Harrell in college too, was a big fan. We’ll see how they both perform in Preaseason, but at this point I’ll stick with Flynn over Harrell. If Harrell is better than Flynn in Preseason, then we’ll have Harrell as the #2 QB.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Harrell
I saw him play alot at Texas tech… I Don’t think much of him at all! Played in a spread offense where the field is wide open, throwing into huge windows, alot of short passes and WR screens!!! Big deal!!! THose throws are NOTHING like the throws he’s going to have to make in the NFL, into really tight windows. He might make the Practice Squad, IF he beats out Shepard, but I’m not so sure he can even do that… Harrell has decent accuracy, but again the screens, short throws into large windows makes that easy! Even after playing (kinda) in Canada, he still doesn’t have an NFL arm, IMO… Playing on the larger field might have helped it a little, but it remains to be seen if its an NFL arm.
In the end, he’s a camp arm or practice squad QB on his best days. I don’t see NFL QB in his future!!! He certainly won’t force the Packers to put him on the roster!!!
I'm not saying he'll ever be a starter
I’m saying there’s a good chance he’ll make it as the 3rd String QB. If he proves he’s better than Flynn in Preseason, then he’ll be #2. I don’t think he’ll ever be a Franchise QB though. I agree with you on that one.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
3rd string
He might be the 3rd string QB, but it’ll be on the practice squad… He won’t make the 53 roster! Might have a chance to become a backup QB in a couple years, but I don’t think he has the arm for the NFL… We’ll see… I don’t see him challenging Flynn at all.
We'll just have to wait and see.....
If he makes it, he makes it, if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. Yes, I am firmly aware of the points held against him in the Texas Tech Spread Offense. I’m not going to lie, because those numbers are indeed very deceiving. However, what the team and myself want to know is: Can Graham Harrell play football? Can he translate into the NFL? Just because he didn’t work in a Pro Style Offense in college doesn’t mean he can’t learn it. Will he learn it and catch on? We don’t know. I am just as clueless as you. I’m not counting on him beating Flynn, but I’m saying there is a chance. There’s always a chance. He clearly isn’t great, otherwise he would have been drafted in the first place. What he did have though, was swagger. He knew how to win games. Yes indeed, there’s a good chance GB will go into this season with only 2 QB on the active roster, just as they did last year. That would put Harrell on the practice squad. If Harrell has a good Preseason though, GB may have to keep him on the active roster to make sure they don’t lose him. We don’t want a repeat of last year in letting Tyrell Sutton and Anthony Smith get away.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Yeah, you never know. Apparently he doesn’t have great arm strength but he’s pretty darn accurate.
by packallday555 on Jun 16, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Experienced Backup Needed
Regardless of who actually is designated as the primary backup, it makes sense to have some veteran presence on the bench at QB. To have 2 backups with a total of 17 NFL game pass attempts is asking for trouble. We were lucky with Favre’s durability, and with Rodgers so far…how far can we push it?
Dead on
One of Thompson’s many mistakes was his huge gamble on not signing a veteran backup QB. Through sheer luck, Rodgers survived and no backup was necessary. Flynn hasn’t impressed me in anything he’s done during games, although in fairness he hasn’t had any opportunities. I am just skeptical that a Super Bowl caliber team can rely on a 6th round draft pick, who has never taken a meaningful snap, as its primary backup quarterback.
The Colts and the Saints did okay
Mark Brunell doesn’t inspire much more confidence at this point in his career than Flynn. Neither does Jim Sorgie, or whoever is backing up Manning these days.
There really aren’t many teams who have backups so good that if the starter went down the team would still be a Super Bowl contender. This is especially true if the QB is one of the top players on the team.
by PackApologist on Jun 16, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorgi was signed by the Giants, Curtis Painter will be Peyton Manning's backup.
Sorgi put up amazing stats for some of the worst Wisconsin Badgers teams that made the postseason… (2002, 2003)
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 16, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I felt that way two years ago and even somewhat last year, but as each year goes by, I feel less and less like that.
Flynn now has 2 years in the system and is entering his third, right? So he knows the playbook well. The coaches know his abilities, what he’s capable of. I think we’d hear about it if they didn’t have faith in Flynn. Maybe he’ll totally be a flop if/when he gets his chance but at this stage he is a young guy who has a chance to develop into something. You bring in a vet and he becomes third string so either we keep him and sacrifice a player at another position or we trade Flynn away. Right now we only need 2 QBs on the roster which gives us more depth elsewhere which is nice with this team. I want to see how he does this preseason before I just assume he couldn’t handle things if Rodgers went down.
Surely he’ll be a big downgrade from Rodgers, but so would any vet that is currently out there too or they would be on a team by now.
The only exception to your point are teams with a QB crisis going on right now. For example, I don’t think there would be a huge drop off in Denver or Arizona, mostly because the QB’s they have in those cities aren’t quite as good…or one is not clearly better than the other.
I’ve never understood the cry for a quality backup. Mostly what we want from a backup is a guy who can come in a pinch or lead us to some good wins if Rodgers goes down. Flynn should be able to do that, and I hope to God that he never has to prove me right on this one.
by PackApologist on Jun 16, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Right on Trevor
Look at Jim Sorgi, he backed up Peyton Manning for how many years? Why did Indy hold onto him as a backup for so long? What Sorgi did provide was experience in the system, so in case Peyton did go down, it had a QB that knew the system well and where the players would be. Granted, Sorgi is finally playing for a different team and behind a different Manning.
Matt Flynn is a veteran now. He’s not proven by any means, but he knows this offense better than any other veteran QB on the market right now. I’m comfortable with what we have right now.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
"Veteran Backup"?
All that means is a guy who is some combination of too old, too untalented, and too injured to hold a starting position somewhere else.
Besides that, who’re you going to get? Brunell? Culpepper? Jeff George?
As far as I’m concerned, Flynn has earned his spot at #2.
by DaveInTucson on Jun 16, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Jeff George, isnt he like 50 something?
Oz on Swish HR celeb: "That's the way he is. Good for him, enjoy it. I wish he could do it for me, he was a very horseshit player for me.''
In like Flynn
Holmgren always developed young QBs for eventual trade-bait. I think Flynn will be the same thing if he ever gets into a meaningful game. …which we obviously wouldn’t want, but, at the same time, it wouldn’t bother me to have a couple games in Flynn’s hands if Rodgers pulled a hammy or something. The kid would do fine, I think. No veteran necessary. …and certainly not any of the suck-monsters who are available.
In the beginning,
Holmgren developed Brunnell and Detmer as potential starters, and Brunnell got DAMN close to achieving it!
But, once Bertt eclipsed Ron Jaworski’s QB starting streak, then, of course, QBs like Hasselbeck and Aaron Brooks were exclusively trade bait. :)
-
The glass is more than half-full.
Noah Shepard!
Yes. Noah Shepard should be the #3.
My entire reasoning for this is that he graduated from the same college I did (U. of South Dakota.) And we need all the representation we can get (although Stefan Logan did well in Pittsburgh last year.)
Before each game, please remember to feed the bats.
Oh! …well, if he’s got a shot at being the next Stefan Logan… I mean, why didn’t you say so?!
;^) just kiddin
by Curly Lambeau on Jun 17, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Black Hills State University > University of South Dakota
I know, I know….big difference in school size. Just playing.
PS- Go Yellowjackets!……and of course the Packer! : )
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
no vets worthy...
and there rarely is.
You just have to face the fact that losing a starter is usually devastating, Then you see what Philly did last year. They picked up Vick, but when it came time to start someone they trusted the development of Kolb who was in the system.
I like what I saw in Flynn.
Exactly
In 2008, I was calling for a veteran backup QB. We lucked out in Rodgers not getting injured
In 2009, I was still somewhat hoping for a veteran backup, but it was less of an issue
Now, Flynn has been in our system long enough to know what’s going on. He’s still on the team, so the team clearly sees something in him. We don’t need any “veteran” QB when we already have a “veteran” in Matt Flynn. He may not be an old and washed up QB in the league, but he’s still spent a couple years in the same system.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Matt Flynn, the only reason LSU went to the National Title in 2007.
I don’t care what you say about LSU’s defense that year. You cannot, absolutely CANNOT give up THAT many points (Florida, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Auburn) and claim your defense got you to the national title. It didn’t, because without Matt Flynn’s heroics, LSU would have gone 8-5, not 11-2.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Flynn was great for LSU no doubt. I still remember him torching Ohio St in the national championship that year. Seems like Ohio St has a habit of choking in big time bowl games..Poor representation of the Big Ten.
by packallday555 on Jun 17, 2010 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I wonder if AJ Hawk is bitter towards Matt Flynn....
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
AJ wasn't a Buckeye in 2007.
But it’s entirely possible. That game was an embarrasment. Neither team truly deserved to go. LSU suffered two losses in which their defense surrendered more than forty points. OSU fell apart on its home turf to Illinois, and had Todd Boeckman as their starting QB. Need I say more about the Buckeyes?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember being ESTATIC when Illinois upset them. I thought for sure that was the end of their National Title hopes but nope :(. I just knew if they made it there, they would get crushed, and sure enough, they did. I really hate Tressel. He’s a perfect example of a guy who thinks he is just some sort of football genius.
by packallday555 on Jun 17, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is that he IS a football genius...defensively.
His offenses have not been the same since Troy Smith. Todd Boeckman was HORRIBLE in 2008, hence why Pryor took over. But Pryor’s misleading stats in 08 gave way to a very shaky, inconsistent QB in 09. Wisconsin KILLED Ohio State offensively, they just gave up three big plays for TDs that totally swung the game. Purdue shut down Ohio State’s offense, took it to the weak OSU corners, and eventually stunned the Buckeyes. Iowa came up with 24 points WITHOUT their starting QB. Ohio State was NOT a great team last year; they just did what they had to do to win games.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 17, 2010 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I suppose your right about D. Yeah, our loss to Ohio St. was really disappointing last year. I couldn’t believe we gave up that long TD pass and then an opening kickoff TD to start off the 2nd half.
by packallday555 on Jun 17, 2010 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the kick return was after a Welch FG
But it was still killer. I hate Ray Small. I respect Kurt Coleman. And I have no idea why Hines was able to go all the way.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 18, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
well i know that
but that doesn’t mean AJ Hawk doesn’t chear for his school as an Alum.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
hawk bitter?
he shouldn’t be———-his best playing days were in college, to bad his game hasn’t translated to the nfl level.
Too bad isn’t it? Dude was a BEAST in college.
by packallday555 on Jun 17, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
your choices for a vet...
Mark Brunell / New Orleans / UFA
Marc Bulger / St. Louis / UFA
Todd Collins / Washington / UFA
Josh McCown / Carolina / UFA
Patrick Ramsey / Detroit / UFA
JaMarcus Russell / Oakland / UFA
Brian St. Pierre / Arizona / UFA
For those that want a vet to back up Aaron, who do you have your eyes on?
Vets
I just don’t see any players left on this list that are now, or were ever able to win games… Brunell is ancient. Same w/ Bulger.
Collins, McCown and Ramsey have never proven to be a QB who can help a team win.
Russell is a horrible fit schematically and hasn’t done anything in college or the NFL to indicate a NFL QB. St. Pierre is a developmental QB, who was not re-signed by AZ, who has no proven NFL QB!!!
If forced to chose, I would take McCown, but definitely NOT instead of Flynn!!!
Bulger was born in 1977…making him 32.
As a fellow 32 year old I resent that statement. OR maybe I resemble it. But either way, its NOT ancient! :-D Actually he is the only one on that list I might even consider and I would have a real hard time convincing myself to do it. I could see us bringing him in to push Flynn for the 2 spot though. I just don’t know if he would. He’d have the kinds of weapons he did in STL back in the day but I just don’t know if he’s as good as his numbers showed. That was a tremendous offense but I think he might be kinda like Culpepper.
age
I thought he was older than that… Still, his play the past few years hasn’t been very good, even w/ lack of talent around him. Martz’s offense is alot different than ours, so it would take time to learn and even w/ that I don’t know if he would push Flynn either.
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