ESPN OTL: On Johnny Jolly's Drug Charge

by Brandon on Jun 29, 2010 12:19 AM CDT in Green Bay Packers News

Here's the link to the ESPN NFC North Blog with the Outside The Lines story on the drug charges against Green Bay Packers DE Johnny Jolly. Kevin Seifert said that this has put Jolly's career in "jeopardy." I guess we'll have to wait and see. The entire video is about 7 minutes long.

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It pains me to say it

But I think we should cut ties with Jolly. He’s a good player, but we’ve had character concerns his entire career. He already knew he was on thin ice, then pi$$ed off the judge by drinking while released. What if he were a Vikings player? What does your gut say about him then? I ran across an old link recently that I think a lot of people need to remember:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/players/10/19/poll.best.worst.orgs/

This was almost 6 years ago. Yeah, sometimes thugs are what it takes to win championships. But we can still do it without the really bad eggs. And my gut says no to this bad one.

by Welzy on Jun 29, 2010 6:40 PM CDT reply actions

cut ties

I couldn’t disagree more…. Does a classy organization uncerimoniously dump a player for one misstep? Jolly isn’t a bad guy or a bad teammate! He made a mistake w/ the drank in his car, and MAYBE was drinking after getting out on bail. But the judge had no evidence of him drinking! He had a photo of Jolly on a pamphlet advertising a party… For all we know Jolly didn’t know his photo was used in that manner! This is his ONLY indiscretion to date. THe Packers had questions about the company he keeps in the offseason, and those questions were answered unfortunately…

The way I see it, is the Packers have him under contract this year, they stand by him this year!!! Classy organizations don’t dump a player for this… THey HELP him in any way they can, let him serve his penalty/suspension if there is one… Next year when his contract is up, let him become a FA and graciously walk away w/ dignity for Jolly and the Packers… Thats how CLASSY people and organizations act!!!

by Strohman on Jun 29, 2010 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Reality Check

Yeah, Jolly’s defense is that the codeine wasn’t his (in the car he was driving). The semi-automatic pistol and marijuana weren’t his, either. As a good guy, he obviously had no knowledge of any of them (in the car he was driving).

Does a good guy hang out with people with these types of things in areas known for such things? By your logic, for all we know, his passengers held the semi-automatic to his head and made him drink the drank. He’s obviously innocent.

Does a good teammate put himself in the position to miss practice time with his teammates and possibly miss his season/career? Whether you like to think so or not, he’s dragging the Packers with him through the mud. This case gets worse as it goes along. Maybe he should have settled before prosecutors started drumming up his old gangsta pals to tell them what a good guy he is.

by Welzy on Jun 29, 2010 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Reality check 2

I didn’t say he wasnt guilty or that the drank wasn’t in his car!!! He might be and the car was his… Making the drank his by default!!! Like I said the Packers had concerns about the people he associated w/ in Houston. If those people carried weapons and had marijuana it was on their person, making it not Jolly’s.

So by your logic I guess the Packers need to get rid of Barnett for the trouble he caused in Appleton, Underwood for the hookers he was involved with and every person who ever has even a hint of trouble! Finley would have to be released for knowing V Young. By ’11 the Packers would have trouble fielding a team…

Jolly made his mistake, and he is going to get his punishment. And next year when his contract is up he won’t be a Packer any longer! But what message does it send to the players if anyone in their “family” gets in trouble and the Packers immediately cut bait and run?! It tells other players that the Packers preach family, but don’t stand by the family members when there are ANY problems!!! I wouldn’t want to be part of a family like that… How bout you?!!!

by Strohman on Jun 29, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Reality Check 3...Revenge of Reality!

Stroh you forgot Club Five Six that Barrnet ran that was a nightly bar fight as well.

Really the “classy” organizations do a mix of helping and cutting those players that are in trouble. I think of the Steelers in this regard. Sometimes they trade the guy in the middle of the night, and sometimes they stand by their man and help him out even when he’s a repeat offender.

In the end though, even the “classy” organizations plan for a future without the troubled players and just let the normal course of the NFL run and let the player be replaced. This is what the Packers are doing right now with Jolly. They drafted a high round player at his position, and a lower round player with some upside. That in addition to a former number one pick fighting for his professional life and the fact that Jolly will miss much of camp due to court dates makes it an uphill climb for him to make the team.

Only time will tell what happens to his fate as a Packer. Right now the deck is a bit stacked against him, but nonetheless the one thing I’m sure of is that the Packers will just give Jolly enough rope to hang himself with…it’s just their way.

by PackApologist on Jun 29, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Like I said...

Let the Jolly situation play itself out!!! Don’t cut bait and run. Jolly’s time w/ the Packers will end in due time. IF he misses much of camp, it could come this year. Personally, I see him back on the team this year and time runs its course for him when the season ends. Nobody can count on Harrell, certainly not the Packers, so its unlikey he makes the team. The drafting of Neal and Wilson was wise, like you said they planned for the future. Besides Jolly and Harrell, who likely dont make it more than a year, only Jenkins is a natural 34 DE.

The “classy” thing to do would be to let this year play out and agree to go different directions next year. Makes the Packers look like they care and give Jolly a clean slate w/ another team… And that compensatory pick will help in the end too…

by Strohman on Jun 30, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions

You should raise your standards

It is your right to think he should be brought back. It is my right to think he is a liability based upon a mountain of “circumstantial” evidence. You don’t have to be Einstein to suspect he is fully involved in bad things. I just don’t want him poisoning the rookies.

by Welzy on Jun 30, 2010 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions

message

And I just look at the message it sends to the other players on the team and how they interpret that… IMO, it tells them for all the preaching about the “Packer Family” there really is no family about it… One hint of trouble and your out of the family? Not the message I want the players seeing!!!

by Strohman on Jun 30, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions

I hear you but the video seems to hint that Jolly has had some troubles before when it comes to hanging out with the wrong guys in Houston. And even if not, I think being caught with a ton of codeine, a gun, and weed is enough to justify getting rid of a guy.

I mean, I don’t think we should cut him now. We should see how things play out. And if they do play out favorably, the brass is going to have to make it really clear to him that he needs to dump his old crew and not have them around anymore.

by packallday555 on Jun 30, 2010 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions

He was already told to leave the thugs in his past.

The guy just doesn’t get it.

by Welzy on Jul 1, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm not for cutting him THIS year,

when he is under contract.
But, I am for definately letting him go when his pact is up.

-
The glass is more than half-full.

by NorthStarr on Jul 1, 2010 2:05 AM CDT up reply actions

agree

Thats what I have been saying all along… IF he misses the majority of camp and is suspended then I might consider releasing him. But I still think he plays out the year and then the Packers just choose to go a different decision w/ him. IMO, its the classy way to handle it from the Packers perspective!

by Strohman on Jul 1, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions

It saddens me

Packer fans used to look down on Dallas, Denver, Washington, Oakland, etc. as POS teams because they accepted these types of guys. Now we join them? I guess there will always be 2 types of fans when it comes to players of extremely poor character – those who accept it and those who speak out against it. I choose NOT to put the a$$ in cla$$.

by Welzy on Jul 1, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions

accepting

If I was accepting it I would draft players or keep them… Jolly is gone next year, but now its in the teams best interests and makes the team look like they care about their players if they keep him!!!

KNowing what we know now, I wouldn’t draft him. Yeah he was cautioned about the company he keeps in the offseason. Just cuz he countinued to hang w/ his “crew” to them is a respect… FOr him to distance himself is seen and being a punk.

your already putting the A$$ in it by showing that you do not care for the Packer family!!! You better cut Barnett, Jollly, Underwood, Finley and alot of other guys if your going to only have players w/ no past and no “posse” from the hood!!!

by Strohman on Jul 1, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions

You can't say "Next Year, we won't like him". But we like him now.

You fail to recognize that I do not group Jolly with “Packer Family”. His insistence on flirting with multiple FELONIES really does not fit the other Packers players’ issues you mention. It’s even more sad that you would group those guys with Jolly.

by Welzy on Jul 1, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions

where?

Did I say that??? I said he is a Packer NOW so the Packers are sticking beside him… And next year when his contract is up he won’t be a Packer!!! For now he is Packer Family whether you like it or not!!! Next year he won’t be in the Packers plans… He has been arrested for ONE felony charge, nothing more… If they bring anything else up it is for sentencing only, if its in regular court, it has to be proven which they can’t do…

I’m not defending him. Jolly f*cked up… But He has one arrest and only one arrest and the if your going to use the “hood” or “crew” for him you have to extend it for everyone!!!

You have no idea of family… Only so long as you approve of everything. What happens if you have a child arrested? Gonna disown him too???!!

by Strohman on Jul 1, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions

condemn

And why haven’t you condemned Barnett yet? His club he had in GB had MULTIPLE issues and he got in the problems in Appleton… By your own rules he should no longer be a Packer!!!! Yet you haven’t mentioned him at all… Underwood was involved w/ multiple hookers… That should account for his release. Nothing to say about him either!!!

by Strohman on Jul 1, 2010 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Your argument is stupid

Compare a slim dude (Underwood) simultaneously raping 2 women at the same time (figure the odds) – with a guy caught with a second degree drug felony plus weapons.

by Welzy on Jul 1, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions

felony

last I heard both are felonies!!! Still no mention of Barnett?!! your playing both sides now… The fool show himself everytime!!!

I’m OUT of this “discussion” since it appears true you can’t have one w/ a fool…

by Strohman on Jul 1, 2010 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions

You missed the joke - not surprisingly

How the heck can Underwood simultaneously rape two women at the same time?
And Barnett got busted for pushing a woman in a bar.
No drugs, no weapons. How can you be so blind?

by Welzy on Jul 1, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Where should "Respect" be in this case?

If a player feels his gangsta friends deserve more respect than his livelihood, his family, his team, and his sport, that is really frickin sad. You gotta be kidding me.

by Welzy on Jul 1, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions

jollys a thug

always has been and always will. after goodell suspends for 4-8 games without pay. he might help the packers out in week 13 when he gets back into shape. it’s obvious that the packers are not counting on him much this season by them drafting 2 more DL.

the fact that jolly was hanging with known gang members with majiuanna and a gun, plus the fact that they found enough codeine to get the early 90’s dallas cowboy team high is really not the same as barnetts shove of a women in appleton or underwood having sex with 2 strippers.

barnett received a 1 game suspension from the league for that shove, but he appealed it and received a 1 game paycheck instead. what do you think jolly will get for his multiple bad decisions from the commish?

by hermitcrab on Jul 2, 2010 2:03 AM CDT reply actions

1st time offender

He’s a 1st time offender! So if he’s found guilty the ONLY thing that is relavent in the possession charge! The mj and guns aren’t really part of the case against him. Guilty a 4 game suspension maybe 6… If he’s innocent then he get nothing! Goodell doesn’t suspend unless guilty or involved in multiple different occasions. Thats been his M.O. to this point.

Again the gun and MJ are not pertinent to the case!!! It might make it look worse to you, but in a trial its not, IMO…

by Strohman on Jul 2, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions

Question for you

OK, he hasn’t been convicted. Our justice system is a freaking joke, he may never be convicted. Saying things look different in a trial than in reality is quite true. Some of the things we see in reality will not make it to the trial. Just because our justice system looks the other way doesn’t mean we have to. I must ask you a pointed question: Do you think Jolly is innocent or guilty?

by Welzy on Jul 2, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions

guilty

Of possession of a controlled substance (codiene). It was in his car in an open container, that makes it his responsibility! Beyond that he isn’t facing any other charges that I’m aware of… Question for you…

Is it his responsibility that a friend of his is carrying a gun or MJ concealed on his person and Jolly isn’t aware of it?

You can say he is guilty of running w/ the wrong crowd, but last I checked that isn’t a crime… Stupid, absolutely… But you cant convict someone of the people he runs with.

by Strohman on Jul 2, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Answer

Every person in my car when I am driving is directly my responsibility. I know every item brought into my car by my friends because they are my friends. Jolly knew every bit of what was going on. To plead ignorance of his friends’ crimes is stupid. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Jolly did not have ignorance, he knew what was going on and you know it.

by Welzy on Jul 2, 2010 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions

There safety is your responsibility, but if they are carrying something you don’t know about is it?

Are you saying you do a search of every person that enters your car? I find that hard to believe… Do you know that every one of your friends doesn’t smoke MJ? If you think you do I think you would be surprised how many people do and you don’t know about it…

by Strohman on Jul 2, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions

You miss the point

I know what my friends do for recreation. You don’t? Maybe your friends sneak in a pistol, a pint of codeine (visible), and a bag of pot into your car without your knowledge. Mine do not. If they did, it’s MY responsibility and MY bad. They even blasted (music-wise) their illegal existence, which is even more stupid. I have no patience for smart crimes, let alone stupid ones.

What you are saying is that you don’t know what your friends do. All of them could be crack dealers for all you know. You must be so proud….

by Welzy on Jul 3, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions

I have been known to occasionally partake. And ALOT of people I know as friends would never guess that!!! I wouldn’t put them in that situation if they were giving me a lift. But that doesn’t mean many other people wouldn’t… Are all the people you call friends people you see recreationally? I doubt that… Work friends are sometimes not recreational friends and may not want you to know what they do recreationally, but that doesn’t mean you wouldn’t give them a ride for some reason.. Do you know what your work friends are into? I doubt that too…

Open your eyes… There alot of thing people do that they wouldn’t want you to know about!!! You can bury your head in the sand if you want!!!

by Strohman on Jul 3, 2010 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions