Start: Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz, or T.J. Lang at Left Guard
by Brandon on Jun 9, 2010 11:01 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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PrintWhile LG Daryn Colledge started 13 games at left guard last season, and started in 60 games over the past 4 seasons, the Green Bay Packers didn't show a lot of faith in their incumbent left guard by giving him only a 2nd round tender. By not giving him the highest tender it showed some willingness to trade him. Colledge will enter training camp penciled in as the starting left guard, but there could be a lot of competition for his job. There are more possibilities then just these three players, but they are the most likely candidates:
Daryn Colledge. As much as I complained about him last season, Pro Football Focus gave him a solid ranking for 2009 as the No. 19th guard overall. I'm willing to admit that a lot of the problems I saw from him last season were during his disastrous Week 2 through Week 4 stint as the starting left tackle, and that he usually held his own at left guard. Either way, this is still a position where the team could improve.
Jason Spitz. While he's rarely played left guard during his NFL career, his old starting job at right guard was taken over by RG Josh Sitton who seems certain to return to it in 2010 after a very good 2009 season. It's more likely he takes over at center (that's for another post) but if he loses out to C Scott Wells then he could find himself challenging Colledge. Spitz is returning from the same back surgery that DE Justin Harrell had to remove a herniated disk. Despite that bad comparison, he should back at full strength in 2010. The coaches seem to love him, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them make sure he has a starting job somewhere on the line.
T.J. Lang. He played exclusively at tackle last season (as far as I remember) but Mike McCarthy was quoted as saying that Lang is a "natural left guard." He can always backup at tackle while starting at guard, and either way the top backup tackle should be LT Bryan Bulaga. This is probably his best opportunity to win a starting job in 2010.
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Lang
I want to see this guy groomed in as the LG of the future. I am DONE with us playing musical chairs with our Oline. Pick guys put them in there and let them gel together as a cohesive unit. I don’t want these guys going from position to position. If wells unseeds spitz, then spitz is his backup. I don’t want to see him out there as a LG then unless he’s amazing or something.
versatile
The backups MUST have some versatility!!! We can only put 7 on the game day roster… That means that after the 5 starters, the 2 or maybe 3 backups need to be able to play other positions!! THat means they have to practice the other positions too. What don’t you guys get about that?
Lang is pencilled in at RT and will be getting most of his training camp reps there, unless Giacomini shows he is ready for playing time! Even then he is only a RT and doesn’t have the versatility to play other positions. So he won’t be active for any game unless he starts. THat means that Lang in this scenario still needs reps at RT so he can at least finish a game…
You may not like that they have to cross-train the OL, but it is a reality of the NFL!!!
I’d agree that the game-day roster guys have to have versatility (e.g. know both T positions or all three interior positions, etc.), but, as far as the 53, I think you keep 10 guys.
Clifton (Bulaga)
Spitz (College)
Wells (Dietrich-Smith)
Sitton (Barbre)
Tausch (Lang)
Who else do you want to cut there? I mean, that’s already cutting Giacomini and hoping we sneak Newhouse onto the PS.
Jeez! Actually, now that I think about it, I think I’d rather go like this just to keep our depth:
Clifton (Bulaga)
Lang (College)
Wells (Spitz) (or vice-versa)
Sitton (Newhouse)
Tausch (Giacomini)
And axe Barbre and Dietrich-Smith instead.
by Curly Lambeau on Jun 9, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Well there is a difference with being able to take over in a pinch and being cross trained to start at numerous positions. These guys need to have a primary position where they put 90% of their effort so they can become masters of that position! We’ll never get a great line if guys aren’t allowed to spend the majority of their time at their primary position. IT would be like having a guy split his time between CB/WR and return guy…how is he supposed to excel at any of those positions?
starters
If your a starter, yeah you get 90 % of your reps at a that position… Maybe more, but in a case like Colledge he got his reps at LG, but also had to take some reps at LT prior to this season, cuz he was the backup LT too. Now that we have better depth across the board, he won’t have to take any reps at LT.
Face it… If your not a starter you have to take reps anywhere just to stay somewhat sharp. Spitz, will have to split his time pretty equally at LG, C, and maybe even RG. He has to be proficient at them all. If he’s not then he is useless as a backup.
yeah. I am fine with that. But last year we had guys fighting for a starting job at multiple positions I tihnk. That is the crap I don’t like. Backups though, yeah they do need to spend some time working other positions I guess to get PT and so that they are able to fill in all over.
Last year we didn’t have guys fighting for starting jobs at multiple positions. Barbre was fighting for the RT spot. Colledge was the LG, Spitz was the Center. Wells was the backup C. Lang was the backup at LG, RT ang LT… But he was the BACKUP at those spots…
You could make a case this year that that is going to happen w/ Spitz… Fighting w/ Colledge at LG and Wells at C… Last year we didn’t have that…
He can always backup at tackle while starting at guard
I couldn’t disagree more. Let these guys play a position and leave them there. The musical chairs situation was (barely) defensible in the past because we had too many guys who were raw and/or not very good, and so we had no choice but to scramble for the “best five guys” in the line-up. But now we’ve got the depth and/or development so that we can say this guy’s a RT, this guy’s a LG, etc.
I’d like to see Lang at RT and Barbre in the mix at one of the guard positions.
…and I voted for Spitz above, but I gotta’ say that his back makes me very nervous. I mean, a guy gets his back opened up… Y’know, that’s not nothin’. And, like Brandon pointed out, any connection to Justin Harrell, obviously, is not good.
Spitz: So, Justin, any words of wisdom here on what I can expect as far as how long it takes to get over this back injury?
JH: I’ll let you know when I get there.
Spitz: Oh…
JH: Yeah. C’mon, let me introduce you to the training staff. They’re the only people in the organization that you’ll ever see again.
I think I’d love to see Lang starting at LG but if he isn’t ready in time put Spitz there. It seems pretty obvious that Colledge just hasn’t been good enough. So in an ideal world, I’d like to see Lang at LG, with Spitz at C.
Ward has the most upside but his moving around a lot hasn't helped his development
He did well at LT under the circumstances he was put in. Whatever is decided it is important that we don’t keep switching all year. Cohesion and consistency is the key to a good line.
Good bye Big Walt.
by Generzal Zod on Jun 9, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
sorry Lang
thinking T.J. Ward (Oregon Ducks player)
Good bye Big Walt.
by Generzal Zod on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, we could have used him. He's a very solid tackler.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 9, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind if we wanted him to be RT or LG really. I just don’t want to see him switching all over the place like you mentioned.
by packallday555 on Jun 9, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
ranking
Did you read the article on this? Colledge was ranked #19 out of ALL OG… That puts him in the top 1/3 in the NFL… THere are 64 OG starting!!! Not saying he’s great by any means, but 19th best OG out of 64 in the NFL is pretty damn good! All you guys are doing is making him you whipping boy… Thats fine if you need one to make you feel better, I guess.
Face it… I seriously doubt, even the great TJ Lang would be better than 19th best OG… Truth is Colledge likely isn’t going anywhere. Good news for you guys… Means you will still have him to make yourselves feel better about yourself and keep whipping on him!!!
I’m not a fan of Colledge by any means… DOn’t like his attitude. BUt the guys is not nearly as bad as you guys want him to be!!!
Based on what ranking? I’ve also seen him ranked in the bottom third on some of those football ranking sites. I guess I just like to actually watch the guys play and judge from there. Colledge seems weak at the point of the attack. It doesn’t seem like he ever gets much leverage run blocking, and struggling pass blocking as well.
He was good in the 2008 season for us though, so maybe we shouldn’t (myself included) be writing him off so quickly. We’ll just have to trust that the staff makes the right decision I guess.
by packallday555 on Jun 10, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Article
THe article uses Pro Football Focus… Isn’t that the same one they used for CB’s a week or 2 ago? Click the link in the article…
I think the point was that it was ONE source that claimed that. People who watched him every week know he’s not as highly ranked as the article might suggest.
Yeah, that’s what I was trying to get at. He was ok ever once and a while but he struggled a lot at LG, especially pass blocking.
by packallday555 on Jun 10, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe
But how does that make the other 45 starting OG in the NFL look by comparison?!! Its a statistical breakdown of each OG and he was ranked 19th… THey were all graded by the same scale, so I guess all the clamoring to get rid of Colledge and pick up a cheap and allegedly better FA is garbage… Fact is that YOU think Colledge is garbage compared to the rest of the OG in the NFL, but thats FAR from the truth!!!
THE 7 game day OL
With the starters being Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Sitton, and Tauscher… They should get the majority of snaps at their psitions, but the other 2 game day OL have to be able to cover, or fill in at almost all the positions! THe way I see it is, Spitz is a backup that can play either OG and C, and Lang can play both of the OT positions! SO at least Spitz and Lang MUST be getting some reps at those other spots… Giacomini and Bulaga wil stay at one position. Newhouse will probably be trained at 2 positions! Dietrich Smith is useless, can only play Center and should be released!
I prefer Bulaga stay at T only and stay on the roster every week
He could be starting depending on injuries, so that leaves one spot for a versatile player who fill holes on the interior as needed.
Good bye Big Walt.
by Generzal Zod on Jun 9, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
agreeing and didn't want to put +1
but yeah +1
Good bye Big Walt.
by Generzal Zod on Jun 9, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Jason Spitz should start at Center. Spitz as a backup.
Lang and Colledge should battle it out. At this point, my preference is TJ Lang. However, Lang is injured right now and Colledge knows he is on the hot seat. He is inconsistent, that’s his problem. Perhaps he shows that he will do well this year by earning his role as the Starting LG.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
seriously?
haven’t we gone down this road before? like a couple weeks ago on this blog.
gonna be a long summer with no newsworthy topics to discuss.
for what’s it worth. i would start lang at lg. spitz could back-up lang and wells at center and colledge could be brought out to the pasteur and put to sleep.
Yeah, we’ve definitely gone round-and-round on this issue.
Personally, though, I have an endless appetite for discussing the Packers offensive line. Seriously, for whatever reason, I just can’t get enough of it.
I think, as long as the coaches don’t screw it up, we’ve got the talent to have something really special here.
by Curly Lambeau on Jun 9, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, it seems like they screw it up quite often :(..
by packallday555 on Jun 10, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
credit
Gotta give THompson credit for building the depth this OL has!!! Its been in the works for awhile now. He’s been using draft picks every year on OL, and on many occasions 2 draft picks a year. With everyone yelling for him to do it suddenly, which is nearly impossibe, he stuck to his philosophy and continued to add pieces.
Until this draft, he never had the opportunity to add a 1st rd choice to the group. But he kept adding pieces that could develop together, along w/ hold overs Clifton, Tuascher and Wells. We now have depth across the board w/ some young guys still developing!!!
As much as I want Lang starting...
(since my last name is Lang)
It just seems to make more sense to groom him at RT if we can and have him backup/spell Tausch. Colledge was an above average LG last season, Spitz may be as good or better if he doesn’t win the center job. The question is who do we keep active?
With:
Tausch
Sitton
Wells (or Spitz)
Colledge (or Spitz)
Clifton
as the starters…
that leaves Lang, the loser of Wells/Spitz/Colledge, and Bulaga fighting for two gameday spots probably. Lang is probably the most versatile – except not at center, Bulaga may be the best tackle (the most injury prone position for us)…
Shit I don’t know. Is center like catcher in baseball, where you always have to keep a 2nd one on the roster (not just an emergency one)? If Wells loses the center starting job he seems to be the most likely odd-man-out unless we keep him just because he can play center.
game day
The 7 game day guys seem pretty cut and dried to me…
Clifton at LT
Colledge LG
Wells C
Sitton RG
Tuascher RT
Backups are Spitz at LG, C and RG
Lang at RT and LT
If a Clifton injury occurs Lang takes his place and finishes that particular game at LT. The following week, Bulaga steps into the LT spot and Lang stays as the backup at both OT spots. A long term injury to Tauscher and Lang becomes the RT, w/ Bulaga becoming the “swing” OT… If they happen to 8 game day active on the OL, then Bulaga is also active, cuz the most likely spots for injury are Tauscher and Clifton at the OT.
You forgot Bulaga
Unless you think he’ll be deactivated most of the season. I personally would rather him back up LT than Lang.
by PackApologist on Jun 9, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
backup OT
So you would sit Lang and keep Bulaga acitve and use him as the ’swing" OT? If you do that then Bulaga has to get practice reps at both OT spots…
I want Bulaga as ONLY a LT… Not taking any reps at RT! Would rather use Lang as the “swing” OT. IMO, Bulaga is inacive on game days if there are 7 OL… Like I said, the backups on the acive game day roster MUST play multiple positions!!!
I thought I explaine myself very well!!! WHat didn’t you understand?!
Each team
Can have whoever they want active… If the Packer chose to they can use 8 active OL… 7 is just what the Packers usually use. Like I said, if they go w/ 8 OL on game days, then Bulaga is the 8th, IMO.
Gun to my head?
If I had to choose between Lang doing the swing tackle or Bulaga I think I would choose Bulaga. I know this seems like a bad idea. You have a great point that Bulaga should only learn LT and not RT.
What fuels my choice is the gut feeling I have that Clifton’s body is a ticking time bomb. Eventually the cart is going to come when some part of his body gives out, and when that happens I would rather see Bulaga trot out on the field to take his place then Lang. I would even go so far at this point (yes, it’s a very early point and we don’t know what Bulaga will look like in pads yet) to say that this fear is large enough to take the hit of Bulaga learning both RT and LT right now.
by PackApologist on Jun 9, 2010 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
agree, kinda
I tend to agree that Clifton is the guy most likely to suffer a long term serious injury! In my scenario, Lang would finish just that game, w/ Bulaga becoming active the next week and becoming the starter for the duration of Clifton’s injury! I would rather have Lang be used as the “swing” OT… I just don’t want to put more pressure on Bulaga, by forcing him to learn 2 positions… Lang was a 5th rd pick, so he is the one most likely to have to learn multiple positions I don’t want to take a chance and mess w/ Bualga’s head! Thats just me…
I get that
The downside to that plan is that if Clifton goes down against a nasty pass rusher, such as Jared Allen or Julius Peppers, then we throw Rodgers to the wolfs for the rest of that game. There are ways to game plan around such a situation to lessen around that situation, but in the end the Packers will have to pick their poison.
by PackApologist on Jun 10, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Allen
You mean the Jared Allen that had 8 sacks against the Packers BACKUP LT, but a total of 5 sacks in the other 14 games? That doesn’t sound like such a “nasty” pass rusher to me… Sounds like someone who took advantage of an easy situation to pad his stats!!! But for the most part sucked the rest of the year!!! Not to “nasty” in my book…
If you can think of a better plan, I am listening… At least to one that don’t include Bulaga playing any position outside of LT.
Yeah, that is pretty pathetic.
Stat-padding at its finest. Wait, the Lions are in our division. Never mind.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 12, 2010 2:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.
This ‘nasty’ beast of a pass rusher was only able to scare up one sack, total, in two games against the Lions. LMAO.
-
The glass is more than half-full.
The Lions had a worse offensive line than the Packers.
Think that’s not possible? Teams with a good offensive line seldom finish 2-14…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jun 13, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, and when you mention the Packers having their back-up LT’s playing against the Vikings in both games last year they act like it doesn’t matter. Even though historically, Clifton has played pretty well against Allen. I’m not sure about you, but I think Rodgers actually having some more time to pass against them is going to help.
by packallday555 on Jun 13, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Colledge
Even though he made me yell at my teevee screen more times than I’d like to recall, the guard position seems to be where he’s best and I’d rather see Lang be a tackle behind Tauscher and Spitz as a back up center. And my guess is that’s what’s going to happen anyway.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Are we assuming
that no matter what, Wells and Spitz will be active every game?
by Archibaldcrane on Jun 10, 2010 11:01 AM CDT reply actions
assuming
I am… Wells is the starting Center and Spitz is by far the most versatile OG/C on the team! Spitz would act as the backup at LG, C, and RG… He has already played each position and if he isn’t the starting C, he would be the best equipped to handle any one of the 3 positions…
THat is of course assuming that Wells and Spitz themselves are healthy each week.
As far as the game day active roster, Lang can play RT, LG and (I presume) RG. Colledge, Spitz, and Wells can all play C and either G.
So, if we have Lang and Bulaga as the game day backups (with the starting lineup of Clifton, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, and Tausch), all the positions are covered.
I’d still rather see 8 active linemen though. Clifton, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, Tausch, Colledge, Bulaga, Lang. This way, A) there’s not too much disruption if one guy goes down, and B) you can rotate guys in to keep them fresh. That’s more important than using the roster spot for some STer who can make sure that our special teams keep sucking as much as they do.
…anyway… I’m sure one of them will get hurt early on and the decision will be made by that.
Lang has never taken a snap in a game at OG… So it would be asking alot of him to do so now… How are you getting Lang reps at all those positions? He’s taking 80% of his reps at RT, how many more reps can he get at each of the other positions and still be competent enough?
Colledge has NEVER played any Center… NONE! How can you possibly expect him to play C and make all the line calls and audibles? NO WAY!!!
If you want to keep 8 OL you have to go light at some other position… Meaning you won’t have a backup at some spot… You think it would be easy to sit a core ST player and primary backup at another position, just so there are 8 OL when you DON’T need 8 OL…
And now you want to rotate guys to keep them fresh? We’re you one of the guys saying you were sick of musical chairs at OL? So now you WANT to play musical chairs?
Sorry, don’t see how you can even consider half of this “plan”…
When I talk about rotating guys in, I mean at their position. Musical chairs is about sliding guys all over the place every time a sub comes in.
I think Colledge has played at C, or at least he’s practiced there. And, anyway, I already had Spitz and Wells on the active roster.
How can I get Lang reps at G? Simple: Make him a guard. He’d only have to play RT if Tausch got hurt mid-game. Then we’d activate Giacomini for the next game if he wasn’t better by then. I’m not worried about it, though. Tausch is very durable except for when he blew out his knee. It’s Clifton you need a full-time sub for.
As for the 8 O-linemen, I was kidding a little about the ST suckage. We’ve kept guys on the active roster just for special teams in the past, and I was saying that it obviously didn’t help. But, seriously, I think we can occasionally get away with just 1 active FB this year, don’t you?
Plan clear now?
by Curly Lambeau on Jun 11, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
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