Morgan Burnett or Atari Bigby?
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 16, 2010 8:42 PM CDT
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Second to None?
Personally I think Burnett is going to be the starter week 1 in Philly...Reason's considered, Morgan Burnett has held true from what I've read to his "ballhawk" reputation he had at Georgia Tech during OTA's and Mini Camp. Atari Bigby has been streaky and hasnt really shown up like he did in the playoff's in 2007. He hasnt signed his tender and at this point, the idea of Morgan Burnett on the strong side behind Charles Woodson is certainly interesting??Considering that Johnny Jolly just got suspended for the year.. Mike Neal will also need to force double teams given the chance like he did at Purdue... Otherwise is he really worthy of a 2nd round pick??
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Bigby
I agree that we cant make any judgements yet, However I figured it was a matter of time before this conversation would be had. I personally would liked to have seen more of Aaron Rouse…Atari has played solid for us, but I just think that Morgan Burnett is going to really gel with Collins in the secondary…I’m not sure if he brings the physicality that Bigby was capable of but after the Arizona game it seems like we can use another guy with his ballhawk mentality?…But like you said who knows what happens when the pads come on?
and just think....
a lot of Packer fans wanted him to be a starter after his Rookie Season. He was good as a rookie, but then just got worse and worse afterwards.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Will he show up at training camp?
Bigby still has to sign his contract and report to training camp. I think that’s the key. If he lets Burnett begin training camp as the starter while he fights for a few more dollars, I’m not sure he’ll get the starting job back. But if he’s in camp from Day 1, he will be immediately slid in with the first unit and he’ll keep the starting job for at least one more season.
Burnett
From what i hear it seems like SS is going to be up for grabs this training camp..? Bigby makes a good case to continue to be the starter but if Burnett can go in there in training camp and get his hands on the ball, I think that we can expect to see him in atleast a few packages in coverage deep..
I think...
I hope that Bigby beats out Burnett and i hope that Burnett looks great but Bigby just excels and beats him out for it. While I really want to see what Burnett has, I think we are better served to have a vet out there. BUT if Burnett outplays him, I want him out there!
Aaron Rouse
I cant say about him with the Giants, but he played pretty well for us? He ran a pick back for a touchdown and got his hands on the ball quite a bit…He only played what 2 seasons for us right?
It was his rookie year where he looked like a ball hawk
That’s where he shined. His problem is he missed a lot of assignments as Yooper pointed out. Collins started out as a guy holding his own and covering his man well in his first couple years, then becoming a ball hawk in 2008 and 2009. Collins first couple years kind of reminds me of AJ Hawk now. Collins was just never seen on the field. QB’s weren’t throwing to him often, and when they did, it was just swatted down. At this time Rouse was getting the interceptions, thus making him noticeable to the fans. I’m glad the coaching staff looked further into what was going on watching the gamefilm.
Hopefully this is a similar issue with AJ Hawk, but we truly don’t know. It could be his 1st Round stock or the coaches do see something in Hawk.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
True, but then again he was a young player…I still believe his upside out was still to come…Either way he was better at safety than Jared Bush..
Got me there, I hope what they say about Burnett is true. Even if he doesn’t start they could use him in the dime. We would have quite the ballhawking secondary.
The only thing that worries me about Burnett
is I hope he doesn’t jump on every route. I hope he learns the speed of the game and does his assignment well first, then adjust to jumping routes and getting interceptions.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
4 year deal for Burnett
If you havent heard, last night on the NFL channel they reported that Morgan Burnett was signed to a 4 year contract…Once more i think that signing Burnett before Bigby is showing 2 things..
1.Dom Capers and the coaching staff have confidence in the kid.
2.This move could be a showing to Bigby that the Defense will move on without him going forward with camp if he wanst to continue to hold out…
I would expect Bibgy to show up to camp on time…If not, then Burnett is an option that the coaching staff seems to be comfortable with?
Bigby
From what I have heard, BIgby has not signed his tender cuz he has been rehabbing his ankle! You remember, before the ankle started bothering him the past 2 seasons that he made a significant impact. The playoff game vs Seattle being just one game, but most of that season he played extremely well. If his ankle is good again, then he comes in and is the starter from the beginnig of camp, and stays that way thru the season.
If the reason he has not signed is to rehab his ankle, then he will be the strarter this season! I don’t see a rookie beating him out. I like Burnetts ability, but we don’t know how he’ll be in man coverage and one of his faults coming into the draft was his tackling. So he’ll have to improve his tackling ALOT before he’ll beat out Bigby. Tackling is Bigby’s strenghth!!! Sure and when healthy a powerful tackler!
Not sure what a ankle has to do with signing a contract. If my ankle was sore it probably would give me incentive to sign the tender.
Alot of player prefer to rehab with the places they chose, not necessarily w/ the team. Bigby has little incentive to sign the tender until camp starts. If he is rehabbing it explains why he hasn’t signed the tender. If he signs his tender he is obligated to a large degree to rehab in GB, not at his choice. Either way its still the Packers footing the bill for rehab.
Agreed if...
Bigby is rehabing his ankle then that seems legit, if thats the case. Bigby is a solid tackler in open field and playing in the box and has descent hands. Burnett will have to get used to tackling NFL back’s and recievers reguardless…If he can show he can bring the wood and play physical SS football in the box then the plot thickens…Burnett looks like a real sleeper, if starts and pulls down 4 picks in the first 8 games and doesnt make TOO many rookie mistakes then i think people will warm up to him.
Well I'd certainly agree
4 in 8 games that would be 8 in a season pro bowl numbers for sure. I’d be happy. Let’s temper are expectations somewhat.
Not necessarily
Were Burnett to get 4 INT’s in the first 8 games teams would become ALOT less likely to throw his way. If he starts, he will get ALOT of chances in the early season, cuz teams already know they don’t want to throw at Collins. If Burnett starts hot, as the season goes he will get fewer and fewer opportunities… You can’t just extrapolate number out like that. It simply doesn’t work that way!
Lets face it..
Our Secondary gentlemen, seems to be the biggest concern on the defense besides OLB…Harris is going to come through this season, and i say that based on faith…The guy will show up IMO. Charles Woodson noone wants to throw at…Collins can play center field very effectivly…NOW if we place another guy back there who can cover ground quickly, that makes the field that much smaller for Harris and Woodson?? At this point, since Mathews seems to be our only Really effective pass rush, that might just be a good adjustment…
I’d expect Bigby and Burnett to split time this year no matter when Bigby signs, which he will eventually. Burnett will be used situationally until he masters the whole defense, and Atari will be used as a stop-gap on running downs.
Atari’s probably not in the team’s long-term plans, and his holdout is them waiting him out and refusing to pay him as if he were a long-term building block. He’ll sign eventually, because nobody else is going to come calling for his services.
The team is holding all the cards, and Atari will be in as soon as he realizes that.
Well said! I think we’ll see both of them play this season, unless one of them outshines the other.
by packallday555 on Jul 17, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Curly Lambeau
I can not agree more with everything you said…Like you I would expect that we see Burnett in the Nickle/Dime/3rd and long scenario’s and Bigby used as more of a hammer that he certainly can be…I trust Atari taking on most back’s in space and like the yooper said, I heard that he was going to be back for camp too..Not to take away from how good Atari has been, personally i like the hit’s he can deliver, but I never thought he was going to be a long term thing…
I agree, you beat me to it on this one
Both Bigby and Burnett bring a certain something to the table. I think Burnett will be better than Bigby in coverage even as a rookie. That is not Bigby’s specialty. However, against the run, Bigby will probably outshine Burnett a lot more. While I think Burnett is our future at SS, I say platoon him in his rookie season with Bigby. I think that is fair and puts the players in the best situation on the field.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Yeah, I like him too. If for no other reason than, when he makes a good play, I like to say “Atari… Japanese for attack!” and then do a kung-fu gesture with my hands.
by Curly Lambeau on Jul 17, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Value of Burnett
We all know he hasn’t played a freaking down yet. So relax before promoting him to the second coming. His real value may be that he pushes Bigby to approch his potential.
ABSOLUTELY!!!
I absolutely agree… This is very similar to the fans reactions about Jolly! Everyone now sees Burnett and Neal as the next coming or being a very productive player when in fact they have ALOT to prove. All the while Burnett and Neal are being exalted the guys the are allegedly replacing are being called over-rated and useless! Fans are just jumping on the bandwagon of the next new thing, while discounting anything that the Bigby and Jolly have contributed, which by the way is ALOT. Thats not saying I don’t think Bigby or Jolly have made great choices. Jolly has repeatedly, but he has also been a consistent performer on the top ranked run defense! Bigby not signing his tender could have alot of explanations, including that he has been rehabbing.
Time to quit annointing the newcomers and acknowledge the contributions of Jolly and Bigby. And this is not to say I’m not excited about Neal or Burnett, just that they have alot to prove and overcome before they can take those positions!!!
are you serious
Noone is appointing a rookie to anything…sorry but if you haven’t noticed jolly won’t be back this year and are you suggesting that justin harrell will be picking up that slack…not so comforting
Apparently your not listening to all the Neal and Burnett talk!
Everyone expects that Burnett is going to start and be a playmaker from the outset of his career. Neal is being expected to provide a pass rush as a DT this year! When in fact rookies rarely do either of those… Most DT don’t become good pass rushers for a couple years and just look at Collins, he was not makeing plays until his 4th year! After his 3rd I remember alot of people calling Collins a bust and wanting him replaced!
What I am saying is respect the job that Bigby and Jollly have done for us, and temper the talk of Neal and Burnett a little.
I think i give a little impression of that, which is not my intention
I feel Neal will have as much production as Jolly simply because i never thought Jolly was good after the week 1 performance against Chicago. In week 1, he was phenominal. Hands down amazing performance. After that, I didn’t see anything in him that made him special. Decent against the run. He swatted a lot of passes because he was getting pushed back, so all he could do was keep his eyes on the QB. At least he did that much. I don’t think CJ Wilson will do much as a rookie. He could though. Now it comes down to Harrell and Neal. Saying neither of them will be good against the run is a little foolish. 1 of them outta, and if that happens, that equals the same kind of production Jolly provided. Maybe, just maybe, that player also manages to make a push against the RT. That alone will be more productivity than what Jolly provided, and will help our pass rush. Not just from the LE position, but for LOLB Brad Jones as well.
As for Morgan Burnett, I have high hopes for him, but not as a rookie. I agree, he won’t just jump in and be amazing right away. No rookie is. The same applies to Neal. However, if Capers establishes a platoon with Bigby and Burnett, I think we can utilize their strengths a lot better. I feel Burnett will be a little better than Bigby against the pass even as a rookie, because Bigby just isn’t that good against the pass. However, when it comes to tackling and stopping the run, Burnett is no where’s near Bigby’s level of performance.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
No rookie is
Didn’t we have a guy named Clay Mattews last year that I thought was super amazing. Had this discussion with the ghost, you just don’t expect it
Isnt Neal going to play DE
Besides…we sure have a lot of faith in 3 second year players on defense……Raji, Jones, and especially Mathews don’t we…I see them CONTRIBUTING effectively and they can do that without making too many mistakes..Your argument is legit but these players are in a position where these questions and comments worth discussing.
Yeah Neal is listed as a DE, but most of his playing time this season is going to likely be as a interior DT pass rusher. Thats where he is going to be needed… Raji and Matthews are being counted on, and have shown they can excel in the NFL. Jones mostly was a ghost on the field. Never showed up on impact plays! He is being counted on, but he hasn’t shown a thing yet. A couple of coverage sacks, no INT’s, no forced fumbles etc… Besides which Raji and Matthews were 1st rd picks… They should be making plays. Neal and Burnett are 2nd and 3rd round picks, so them making an impact is much less likely as a rookie!
Terrible
That makes no sense at all actually…The round that the player player comes out of makes no difference…I will agree that 1st round picks do have higher expectations but that doesnt mean the production standpoint will be determined by the round they are drafted in….Brad Jones was drafter in the 7th Round and is everyone ready for this…“CONTRIBUTED” effectively by not making too many glaring mistakes…Neal plays on the line, so his contibutions wont be seen as openly as Burnett’s since he plays in the secondary…
Percentages
I’m sure there is a correlation between round drafted and round drafted in. I think it is a fair assumption that your going to expect a you could reasonably expect a huge impact from a player picked at the top of the draft (Eric Berry) and not so much farther down. We certainly hope for a impact from Burnett and Neal. But history would indicate that we shouldn’t expect that as you seem to assume.
The win/win situation
Unlike losing Jolly, this really is a can’t lose situation. If Burnett comes as good as advertise so far then great. If he needs time to develop, then we have Bigby to come in and do his usual solid starting self.
Actually the best part might be switching between the two. Run downs Bigby can come and help with run support. Passing downs Burnett can help jump routes.
Basically this comparison makes me excited for training camp to start. The safety battle will be heated from the start now that Burnett is under contract.
Either way, the safety position is in pretty good shape.
Agree
Also,except for his 1st season with us when he looked like he had the makings of a future pro bowler he has been constantly dinged up. This I believe besides missed games has effected his performance. So hopefully he is as good as they say but the depth he provides is reassuring.
ROOKIES
Every year the draft surprises. Last year Lang and Jones certainly qualified. Scouts must quantify prospects because there are so many of them. But they can’t measure intangibles. Some of my favorite players were late round or free agents. Bart Starr was a 17th rounder. If I remember correctly, Bryce Paup, who was AFC defensive player of the year was a 6th rounder. By the way, who does Jones remind you of? Everyone is worried about Jones simply because he was a 6th rounder. But what do we know? He did the job beautifully, better than the man he replaced.
On that note
Clay Mattews suprised me who expected that kind of production out of him. I don’t recall anyone saying watch that Clay Matthews but for Ted to move up the way he did he knew what he was getting
Agreed
I’m hoping that he has something in mind when he took Neal so early…I like the guy, and I like that he moved up to get Morgan Burnett…
Burnett
God, I hope it’s Burnett. Bigby has been downhill since the 2007 season and hasn’t been a big hitter like he was, say, against Seattle in playoffs.
I just don’t have confidence in Bigby anymore.
"The Green Bay Packers never lost a football game. They just ran out of time." -Vince Lombardi
Bigby
Bigby has been injured… If healthy my guess is that he will keep his starting job at safety for one more year and then they let him hit FA next season… And we’ll get a compensatory pick in exchange!
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