Johnny Jolly Suspended For All Of 2010 Season
by Brandon on Jul 16, 2010 11:59 PM CDT
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintIt's been reported that DE Johnny Jolly has been suspended indefinitely and cannot return until after the Super Bowl. This should be a big deal for the Green Bay Packers since he's started all 32 games over the past two seasons, but it's not something that's really bothering me. Maybe that's because this isn't a big surprise, and it doesn't look like the team is very surprised by this either.
First some technicalities. Though he's awaiting trial to begin at the end of July, he hasn't been convicted of anything yet and he's never been in trouble otherwise. As Lori Nickel at the Journal Sentinel reported, there are three stages to the NFL's substance abuse program and a year long suspension doesn't happen until after there are multiple violations, so there's a lot we don't know. While this suspension only covers the entire season, a Stage 3 violation would trigger a one calendar year suspension, so this isn't a Stage 3 violation. Greg Bedard and Aaron Nagler think this is a combined suspension for substance abuse and a personal conduct violation. Jolly will now spend the season on the reserve-suspended list and the Packers won't have to pay him.
This case has been turning bad for a while now. At first it seemed like this might be a possession case with a modest punishment, but new charges were filed back in June alleging that he's a "major player in the Houston drug game." I wouldn't be surprised to see him work out a deal with the prosecutor or be found guilty, and it looks like he's played his last game for the Packers.
If there's a silver lining to this dark cloud, it's that the Packers seemed to have been hedging their bets with him. While they did tender him a contract as a restricted free agent, they've already moved DE Ryan Pickett over to Jolly's position, and drafted two defensive ends last April. They now have several backup options, and don't forget that Jolly didn't have a good 2009 season anyway. Looks like it's just time to move on.
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are you kidding?
you mean you can’t hang out with gangsters and be caught with a gun, pot and enough codeine to get a small village high anymore. wow! times have changed.
A year-long suspension
for a first time offense without (yet) a conviction where noone was hurt…
is kind of
wait no
completely fucking absurd.
Don’t get me wrong, Jolly is incredibly stupid for rolling around with a case of sizzurp in his car. It’s dumb and illegal and especially dumb as an athlete.
But the fact that you can get a year for being accused of it, and only 4 games for a first-time steroid use (ya know, another illegal drug that actually has something to do with football) – it’s twisted.
How often do people get season+ long bans on a first-time offense? I’d love to see a list.
He had almost 7,000 pills on him
This wasn’t just a couple of guys drinking some sizzurp. A T3 has 30 MG of codeine. He had at least 200 GM on him. If it was plain codeine without acetaminophen it is a schedule 2 drug like morphine. In any case, someone in the car is dealing huge amounts of pills. LIke Nate Newton getting caught with 215 and 175 pounds of weed, quantity has to count.
I'm pretty sure
there were no pills – this was all codeine cough syrup, which caused one of the delays in his trial as they needed to get some certain equipment to test how much codeine was in the liquid.
He was clearly involved in dealing, but yeah it was cough syrup.
That being said, if this wasn’t his first offense (and it looks that way) then yeah, I have no problems with it.
by Archibaldcrane on Jul 17, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
hey he knew the rules though…its not like they stuck this drug rule under the table. He knew what he was doing was wrong and yet he was willing to risk his livelihood and career for a high. What a stupid piece of #. ugh…how we are forced to rely on very little experience on the bench. Man i hope Neal pans out!!!!
The Packers could sign Darren Howard to a veteran minimum now that he's a free agent...
For depth purposes, of course…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 18, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I've become so accustomed to
every “Confidential” drug test result getting leaked I didn’t really consider the possibility that this isn’t the first offense.
In that case, this guy deserves what he’s getting.
by Archibaldcrane on Jul 17, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
obviously
this wasn’t a first time offense. not all violations are made public. he may have been in the nfl’s drug program and failed some drug tests in the off-season which would cause him to move up from stage 1 to a stage 3 violation.
let me be the first to say….“good riddance”
do some research
this suspension has NOTHING to do with his pending trial. he violated the nfl’s drug policy. he still will get more time off after the outcome of his trial. this idiot obviously had some failed tests before. not all dirty tests are made public, so stop calling this the 1st offense. goodell probably has some good evidence on jolly to suspend him for at least this year and beyond.
i’m guessing thompson knew this day was coming. connect the dots. pickett moving fromnt to LDE and thompson drafting 2 dl in the last draft. it’s obvious the packers knew more than the public.
1 sack in 32 games
It’s not that big of a loss. Plus we know all the headaches he gave us on the field.
I’m probably the only one jumping with joy right now though, as most of you know by now what my stance is on Jolly.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
eh...it is though
Now we are stuck relying on a VERY shallow & unproven bench. We have two rookies and JUSTIN HARRELL as our guys coming off the bench all year. This is NOT somethign to be excited about by any means. Jolly is a complete idiot and dumbass but heck he would have been coming off the bench likely this year would would have made him one of the best benchwarmers in the league. Now we are stuck with rookies and a guy who can’t even play more than 3 games a season.
In my opinion...
Jolly was a starter by default, because we had nobody good enough to take over his position. We had Wynn who isn’t any good and Harrell on the couch at home.
CJ Wilson will probably be a little better than Wynn. I expect Neal to be a solid 3-4 DE. I really am thinking Justin Harrell turns it around. I’m standing in his corner, but yes, I’m keeping this support relatively quiet. haha. It’s mostly speculation here, but again, Jolly was nothing spectacular. He was really there only because we were thin in depth and had nobody better to take over for him.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
foolish,
he was an absolute presence on that line when he was in the game. Its just plain ignorant to gauge a DT’s performance based upon his sack total…comon man I know your better than that.
Oz on Swish HR celeb: "That's the way he is. Good for him, enjoy it. I wish he could do it for me, he was a very horseshit player for me.''
Have to agree w/ you… Jabooty, and alot of other Packer fans, are really down on Jolly right now. I think Jolly’s presence will be missed! He didn’t rack up alot of sacks but he led the DL in tackles and was generally good vs the run. While the Packers have other guys there are alot of ??? regarding all of them! Jolly wasn’t great but he was a big contributor to the Packers top ranked rush D. Hope he gets his demons under control, gets his life in order and can resume he NFL career… Whether w/ the Packers or somewhere else!
by Strohman on Jul 17, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he was good against the run but so was Raji, Pickett, and Jenkins, and obviously we still have all those guys. It would have been nice to have Jolly as the 4th guy in the rotation but ultimately, he would have been just that. A rotation guy. Now one of the other 4 guys need to step up, and be able to hold their own when subbing in for one of the starters.
by packallday555 on Jul 17, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
He was nothing more than a guy providing good depth, but as you mentioned, those 3 guys are also good against the run. To say none of the 3 (Wilson, Harrell, Neal) will be good against the run is absurd. So if 1 of them step up to be good against the run, we already found someone with as much production as Jolly.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
IMO, Jolly would be the starter again in 10.
Yeah Raji, Jenkins and Pickett are also good vs the run. But none of them are nearly as natural as Jolly as a 34 LDE. And nobody ever said that the other 3 guys won’t be good either. But your totally discounting Jolly’s contrbutions the the No. 1 run D in the NFL!!! He did just as much as Raji, Pickett and Jenkins! Probably more than Raji and Jenkins and a little less than Pickett.
IMO, Jolly would be the starter again in 10.
Eh, I doubt it. Probably the only reason he started in 09’ was because of Raji’s high ankle sprain. This coming season, legal troubles or not, I think he would have been on the bench. Yes, he was good against the run but horrible against the pass. (probably the worst of Jenkins, Pickett, and Raji.) Improving the pass defense is probably the biggest thing for the team, and replacing Raji with Jolly would/will most likely help that.
Don’t get me wrong, I realize Jolly contributed to our run defense being so good. Having a rotation of 4 guys who are probably all starter material was a huge advantage for us. We’re just going to have to hope that someone can step up, and at the very least, be solid against the run (like Jolly was).
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
thank you
I never said Jolly was bad, just saying he wasn’t good. He was expendable, but yeah, it will hurt our rotation.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
just saying he wasn't good...
Curious… If Jolly wasn’t good, why did he lead the DL in tackles and play more snaps than any other DL??? Would seem to me, that if he wasn’t good, he wouldn’t be leading in either category!!!
Don’t let logic get in your way though…
How do you know he led in the snaps? Not saying I don’t believe you bu I’d be interested to see how many snaps each played. Pickett and Jenkins both had minor injuries throughout the year. That certainly could mean they subbed out more in the rotation, which could have left Jolly with more snaps. I also think he and Jones saw much more action then Jenkins and Matthews did, which could help his case for being the leader in tackles.
We know he was solid last season, and we know it hurts to lose him. Just saying it shouldn’t be that hard to replace him. All it’s gonna take is a guy who can do a solid job playing the run.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
John Clayton ESPN
I realize its ESPN, but Clayton is THE most trusted NFL source anywhere… He mentioned it this morning on OTL.
No, I totally believe you. I just assumed you saw a comparison of how many snaps each of our DL played, or maybe percentages.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
thats because he played nickle and dime
Jolly probly would not have been starting and if he was it would only be because Pickett wasnt moved from NT yet.
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 20, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I’d like a source that indicates he played more snaps. I don’t believe it off hand, but I’ve been proven wrong before.
As for most tackles, considering he was playing on the strong side, that does make sense. Jenkins was perhaps our best DE playing on the right side, along with Clay who was our best OLB, along with Nick Barnett our MLB playing on the right side. It’s a good reason to run to the other side.
With that said, Jolly did have to hold his own in stopping the run. He was decent against the run. However, he was only that. He was an average player, nothing more. Being average was one reason he had the starting role, the other reason was because there was nobody behind him. Very thin at depth. However, being average means you are expendable. Jolly also didn’t provide much upside. I know it is speculation, but I believe that Neal can and will be a better player than Jolly. Will he be great? I don’t know. Will he be solid in his rookie season? I hope so. Will he solidify the LE position in the long run? I believe he will.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
I think Jolly taking the most snaps could be pretty accurate. Pickett missed a couple of games. Raji didn’t get going until week 4. And it seemed like Jenkins was usually the first guy to take a breather, which was probably done to keep him as fresh as possible.
Jolly was average. I think the perception on him may be a bit skewed because of how well he started the year off with a couple of INTs, and a lot of batted down balls. It seemed to me like he eventually went back to being a serviceable player later in the season, which I have always thought he’s been his entire career with us.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe that Neal can and will be a better player than Jolly.
Hope we sign him soon. It just got harder to do.
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game of 2008.
by NorthSidePaulie on Jul 19, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
quotes from the team...
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2010/7/16/1573805/a-big-blow-to-the-packers-for-2010
This discussion was also happening here so its another place for some perspective on this event.! :-)
Change of venue
His lawyer needs to get him a change of venue to Minnesota where drugs are fine and NFL rules mean diddley to season ticket holding judges.
by Egbert Souse on Jul 17, 2010 1:34 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I’ve been thinking the exact same thing.
by Curly Lambeau on Jul 17, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game of 2008.
by NorthSidePaulie on Jul 19, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
There should be some transparency at this point. I kind of understand why they’d want to keep offenses under wraps until the appeals process plays itself out, but, now that they’re putting the (huge!) suspension in place and making it public, I don’t know why they’re not telling us what he did to deserve it.
It’s obviously not due to the charges against him in court. So, what did he do? …not saying that I doubt that he did something (he’s presumed innocent in court, but he’s lost the benefit of the doubt with me), but I’d just expect that they’d tell us.
And this is a substantial loss to the team, btw. He was no Pat Williams (^ahem^), but he was good for a big play or two now and then.
Neal Rackers and his thunder thighs look good now
something tells me even the mafia wouldn't call on greg walker if a hit was needed.
-MarketMaker
What about missed field goals that set up agonizing OT games?
Or losses to the Bears?
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 18, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
It's never to easy to replace a starter
As supremely average as Jolly could be at times, anytime a team has to replace a starter it’s not a good thing. I know it’s been said a couple times now, but depth is pretty questionable at DE.
MAYBE Pickett will fit into that role even though he was a pretty good NT last year.
MAYBE Harrell will be healthy.
MAYBE the two rookies will pan out.
MAYBE Wynn will take a big step.
I don’t know about you all, but that’s an awful lot of maybes that wouldn’t need to be answered if he had one bonehead on our team.
Honestly, I don’t think it should be that hard to replace him in the defense. Basically all the 3-4 DE needs to be is big, and hard to move backwards. Jolly rarely got good penetration. He isn’t explosive off the line, which is why he always looked so below average-mediocore in our 4-3 defense. The 3-4 defense doesn’t need good penetration from the DE’s (but it’s nice to have guys who can like Jenkins). They basically just need to hold their ground, and consume blockers with their big bodies. I’d hope that one of the guys deeper in the rotation would be able to fulfill that role, but who knows.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
tackles
Jolly did lead the DL in tackles and unless I’m mistaken that is still the idea of the game on defense. You can’t stop the offense if you don’t tackle them! You have to respect that Jolly led the DL in tackles! No matter how much you dislike him or the decisions he made off the field you have to respect that! And he did it on the DL that proved to be the linchpin of the top run D in the NFL!!! That doesn’t happen by accident and it wasn’t a fluke either!!!
No, it wasn’t a fluke but I’d bet people ran at he and Jones much more then they did at Jenkins and Matthews. Losing him definitely hurts, I just think someone will be able to fill in and at least be formidable against the run, which is all we really need.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I expect someone will step in and take his place as well… I’m just sick of nobody respecting the job that Jolly did for the Packers and think they should acknowledge it. Instead all you hear is that he isn’t a good player and is a bad person. Neither of which is really the case.
Time to move on though… He isn’t going to be a Packer this year. All we can do is HOPE he will be replaced adequately! And I think that will happen.
kinda
like people not respecting #4 for what he did for the organization.
pretty much a double standard, don’t ya think?
oops, i just started another 100 posts———my bad.
respect
I fully appreciate what Favre did for the Packers organization! He did alot… What I don’t respect is what he did when leaving… His entire “retirement” drama was totally created by him to get out of GB. Lost ALL respect for him that I ever had. Enough about him.
And I'm not happy
about the way Jolly worked things out so that he’s leaving us too
Best game I ever attended was the 163rd game of 2008.
by NorthSidePaulie on Jul 19, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Look who's left
Table Jolly’s flaws for a moment and simply look at how the D was able to work when he was there, starting every game. It was generally good. Jolly helped stuff the run and was able to at least bat down passes that were thrown in his direction.
But now what do we have? Say what you will about Jolly, but all of the guys behind haven’t shown much. The only guys who have played any time in the NFL are Harrell and Wynn. Neither of these two have torn things up. Then there’s the two rookies, they may be good, but that’s a lot to ask of a rookie to make that much of an impact right away.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy that the DE position was addressed in the draft this year. It’s clear that TT knew something would happen to Jolly. I am just a bit concerned about the Pack’s depth at the position right now.
by PackApologist on Jul 18, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
That sounds almost exactly like what I have been saying...
Oh and just found this little tidbit out too… Besides leading the Packers DL in tackles, he also played more snaps than any of the other DL. So your losing production and snaps played… If he was a terrible as some of you think, why would he have played the most snaps?!!!
Theres alot to be said for a guy thats productive AND available every down!!!
I've got your back on this one Stroh
Basically the point is simple and I haven’t heard too much to get around it.
Jolly started for a reason, and there was little indication that he was going to be pushed out of the lineup. The only way Jolly was going to be pushed this camp is if Pickett is the guy there and he is no longer NT rotating in and out or if Neil, Wilson, Harrell, or Wynn suddenly becoming starter material.
I may even give some credence to Pickett on running downs and Neil on passing downs. On paper that sounds good at this point, BUT we need to see what happens when the pads come on in camp. Maybe Raji can’t handle the nose and so Pickett has to move back there. Maybe Neil needs a year of NFL experience before he’s ready to make an impact. Maybe Pickett doesn’t have the quickness to seal the edge. So on and so forth.
Bottom line is that right now we don’t know. It isn’t wise to just shrug off and say, well we’re better now cause we don’t have Jolly’s headaches. It’s true that’s one positive, but there are so many more question marks and potential downsides that right now this ruling is a bad thing.
by PackApologist on Jul 18, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
And I can understand your concern. I don’t think Wynn will be the guy to step up but I do think Neal or Harrell could step up (assuming he’s healthy, which is a poor assumption). And even if one of them isn’t able to step up, it’s not necessarily the end of the world. Yes, the run defense will take a hit but the 3 starters will be out their 60-70% of the time still, and all have proven to be good against the run. I guess that’s why I’m not as concerned as some about losing Jolly.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
And that's not including Pickett for a solid rotation
The team did say earlier in the offseason that it wanted to get its best defensive linemen in Jenkins, Raji, and Pickett on the field as often as possible. I keep leaving Pickett out in my arguments because I don’t think he’ll be a good DE, but I doubted Pickett would holdup as a NT too. That one bit me in the rear a little.
I’m not a believer in Wynn either. I don’t think he’ll do much better. It really comes down to Pickett, Harrell, and Neal. Yeah, there’s CJ Wilson, but I’m not counting on a 7th Round Pick to be a quality starter. He could be good after some experience though.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
best DL
I would have to assume they knew this spring when that was brought up that they would be w/o Jolly.
Look, I’m not saying the guy can’t be replaced, but EVERY other option has ??? regarding him. Pickett has never played any DE. Harrell has injuries. Neal and Wilson rookies. Wynn didn’t play like he deserved to even be on the roster last year. Will he w/ another year? Hard to say…
At least Jolly was consistent, and judging he had played more snaps and was tendered so high, you would have to assume that the Packers and Capers were more than happy w/ his play. Heck his tender alone should indicate they were quite happy w/ him!!!
I see your point
I don’t think either of us are really going to persuade each other one way or the other. I just want a guy that can not only stop the run (I feel Harrell, Pickett, and Neal have that ability), I want someone that can help our issues in pass rushing.
I understand that “hope” comes with a little risk. However, we all know that Jolly provided no upside. If we want our defense to not only be stout against the run, but provide a little pass rush, we need to improve our DL. Jolly wasn’t the long term future at LE. I realize though, that this is a blow to our depth. It’s a big blow in that sense, but when it comes to the future and getting our best players on the field, I think in the long run, this is a good thing. You cannot succeed without risk, and I think this is a safe risk. Jolly was nothing more than average. We can improve on average. I don’t know about you, but I’m tired of mediocrity. I’m tired of being just an average team. I want the best team and only the best team. That requires players on the field with a fire lit under their butt.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
And I’m not saying he can’t be replaced… I just think people need to realize he was a good player. WHich it seems most won’t do. I agree, I would like to see an improved pass rush from the DL. I am even willing to give up a little in run D to get it, something I have mentioned before.
Maybe it becamse heated because of him being gone now
but my stance on Johnny Jolly, Brandon Underwood, or Brad Jones is nothing new. For instance, in the new thread by Brandon talking about our starting line, he provided a hyperlink from our selection of Neal back on April 23rd. I made a comment on there about my dislike for Jolly. Maybe it’s more noticeable now, but it was never a matter of suddenly just turning my back on him. I have disliked him for a while now. He seems to get too much credit largely from his performance in Week 1.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
The problem of hope
Right now we don’t know what Neil or Harrell will be able to do. Neil hasn’t been in pads yet performing in the NFL. Harrell hasn’t really been in pads long enough to really give a good eval of what he can do yet either.
by PackApologist on Jul 18, 2010 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I realize both those things but even if no one does step up I still think the run defense will be alright. It would take a hit for sure but all the starters have proven to be good run stoppers, as have all of the LB’s.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the Packers already prepared for this.It’s no big surprise after all
It is a big surprise
I know this took me by surprise, or I should say that the amount of time took me by surprise. I think the Packers knew something was up and they hedged their bets.
I think they are planning on a SB run over the next couple years and didn’t want to potentially lose few games because of a Jolly suspension. I think they wanted more of an inside pass rush and wanted to secure that for the future.
I don’t think they figured he would be totally gone for this year and possibly gone for good though. I mean come on, to be kicked out for a year a player needs to fail multiple drug tests, kill people, or be the ring leader in an organized criminal ring. Maybe we didn’t know about the failed tests, but even if that’s the case Jolly hasn’t been suspended before – at least to my knowledge – so why suddenly lower the hammer?
by PackApologist on Jul 18, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Surprised!!!
I was totally surprised by the length of the suspension!
This is what I see… Jolly must have been in the substance abuse program and had 2 violations. The 3rd violation carries an automatic 4 game suspension. It isn’t made public if a player is in the abuse program until the 3rd violation and suspension. Clearly Jolly was in the program… Whats not known yet is whether he got 2 violations in the past year to generate a year or if the 3rd violation is more severe due to the arrest and upcoming trial. We should find out more during or after the trial and conviction, assuming there is one… If convicted my guess is he’ll have the suspension legthened into the ’11 season.
i'm shocked
by the year suspension. so jolly failed at least 2 drug tests—-big deal. it should be legalized anyway, but that’s for a different blog. this young man deserves a second chance and who are we on this blog to judge him. he’s probably a good person and one heck of an american citizen.
oops——-(sarcasm) i guess i have to do this from now on.
what a maroon
a little upset, but none at all surprised.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
You weren’t surprised by the length?
I mean sure I was expecting a 4-6 games, but a year? Really?
by PackApologist on Jul 19, 2010 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, really
The party with the flyer was absolute proof that he doesn’t get it.
substance abuse
It was a substance abuse suspension… It wasn’t a personal conduct suspension, which is subjective. He got a year cuz thats what the substance abuse program calls for!! It wasn’t known to us but apparently Jolly had tested positive multiple times. THe 3rd one trigger a suspension what we don’t know is if he tested positive a 3rd time and the arrest and trial elevated it or if another (4th) positive test trigger the year!!!
You guys need to read a little and learn!
I have not watched enough Packers to argue Jolly's quality during last season
But citing Pro Football Focus’ made-up stats to prove the point makes me wince. PFF is – to put it succinctly – full of shit, and bases those player ratings on absolutely no measurable process.
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