Why losing Johnny hurts Justin
by Green and Bold on Jul 18, 2010 10:05 AM CDT
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A post from JonBob's Packer Blog
Well if you haven't heard the big news yet, you probably live under a rock...or you're actually having an enjoyable summer and don't spend the majority of your time glued to a computer screen.
But I digress.
Last Friday, Johnny Jolly was suspended indefinitely for violating the league's substance abuse policy. He'll be gone for at least the entire upcoming season, play-offs included.
Packers bloggers wasted absolutely no time in dissecting this story from nearly every possible angle. Jersey Al call's Jolly's suspension a blessing in disguise. Brian Carriveau vlogs that the Packers were well prepared for this loss. And John Rehor writes that Johnny Jolly is a moron.
I tend to agree with all of them. Having the suspension handed down now is good for two reasons: It prevents Jolly's court proceedings from becoming a headache during the season and it also allows the Packers to hang on to a player that they probably would've had to cut in favor of Jolly. Additionally, the Packers were definitely well prepared for this development, as they drafted two DEs in the 2010 NFL draft. Ted Thompson, your draft score has jumped up a whole letter grade. And yes, Johnny Jolly is a bit stupid for throwing away a career in the NFL for some drugs, no matter how much fun Grimace makes the Purple Drank appear.
But I want to take a look at this story in a different way. Instead of analyzing where the Packers go from here, or how well prepared they are to handle this loss, I want to take a look at a player whose hopes of making the roster may actually be hurt by the Jolly suspension. Because I believe someone on the current Packers roster is going to be adversely affected by Jolly leaving...and it may not be who you think.
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All things being equal
All things are not equal with the 3 players you mention. In the 3-4 your ends are bigger. The ideal size I’m guessing is 6’4 310 #‘s. Wynn is like 270 a little on the small side. Wilson between 280-290 still a little small, whereas Harrill 6’4 320#s can’t teach size and quickness if he still has it. Also he maybe the only one on the roster capable outside of B.J. and Pickett capable of playing nose.
That being said his injury history would indicate his chances of staying healthy are not that great. We can only hope. We could really use a player of that size.
very true
i was hoping someone smart didn’t pick up on that! darn you yooper!
to rephrase what i’m saying, while harrell’s size is now even more a commodity with the loss of a run stuffer like jolly, his injury histroy also comes into to play even more than it would. so i guess jolly’s departure has given him both a relative advantage and a relative disadvantage.
either way, thanks for the constructive criticism. thats what im looking for.
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 18, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
im just saying it works both ways
-he’s helped by the fact that he is ideal size, which is even more important now that a run stuffer like jolly is gone
-but he’s hurt, now that reliable, non-injury prone dlinemen are even more a priority
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 18, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
The ideal size of a 3-4 DE is weighing between 290-310 pounds.
The 290’s range is where they are best utilized and taken advantage of. Harrell weighs a little too much for an end at 323, same as Jolly last year. That’s ok though, not every 3-4 team follows the trend. Just look at Baltimore and Haloti Ngata, who happens to be a DE.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Ngata
Pretty sure Ngata is a NT, not a DE… He may play some snaps at DE, but I know he at least entered the NFL as a NT!!! Checking the sites, the ravens official site lists him as a NT, the NFL site lists him as a DE…
Ngata is a DE
He started in the NFL as a NT, but moved to RE as the Ravens were more happy with his production in collapsing the pocket from the outside. Baltimore plans to platoon the NT position this year with Kelly Gregg and Terrance Cody. He is listed as a DE.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/bal/depthchart?nfl-pos=defense
http://www.nfl.com/teams/baltimoreravens/roster?team=BAL
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
agree
Oh and I totally agree that the ideal 34 DE is in the 290 to 310 range. And generally 6’4 or more too. I would like to see Harrell come in at 310… I think losing 15 lbs would help gaurd against the back acting up again.
Ideal size
The Packers probably tend to like the big size they are serious about using Pickett at end from what one of my neighbors who is with the Packers has told me
We'll see...
How training camp and the final cuts turn out… If they end up releasing Harrell even if healthy, and keep Neal and Wilson on the roster, it would tend to indicate that they are transitioning to the more natural 34 DE, instead of the converted 43 DT they have been using… Personally, I would go a little smaller and give up just a little in run D to get more pass rush from the DE’s, given the way the NFL is headed…
How many defensive linemen do you figure GB will hold onto this season?
I’d like to say 6 would be a good number to hold onto the roster.
RE- Jenkins, Harrell, Wilson
NT- Raji
LE- Pickett, Neal
I’m sure Wynn will be signed to our practice squad and I highly doubt anybody would be interested in signing him. I think the team plans to rotate Pickett at NT once in a while too though to get Raji some rest. I’d like to see Neal and Harrell battle it out for the primary backup DE role. I think it’s a fair assumption that Wynn will not make the team if the team plans on holding onto only 6 linemen, but I’m not sure what their intentions are. If we do cut Wynn and sign him on our practice squad, then we can hold onto more LB’s, which will help our Special Teams unit.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Wynn
Is not PS eligible… Pretty sure he was active for too many games to qualify for the practice squad!
Harrell will be a LDE, IMO… We don’t know for sure, but that is my guess. Better vs the run would tend to indate a LDE and more pass rush ability would indicate RDE.
Yeah, I wasn’t sure if Wynn would be eligible or not. I won’t cry if he’s the one that’s cut though. I only put Harrell at RE because I am assuming Pickett will be the LE on obvious running downs, then having Neal play as the LDT in the Nickel/Dime Packages.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Harrell
Have to say I don’t agree w/ you in this regard. That said, good article, good writing… Finally someone who writes really well and expresses himself very well!! Keep up the excellent writing.
thank you sir!
and pray tell, what exactly did you disagree with in the article?…i’ll admit, it maybe reaches a teeeensy bit. but i still think it makes sense, no?
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 18, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
sense
I do understand w/ what you are saying as it being a disadvantage, but IMO, it can only help Harrells chances of making the roster… Thats assuming he stays healthy!! LOL
I agree with you Stroh
Harrell was already on a thin line with all his injury issues, but losing 1 lineman only increases his odds of making the team. Plus, most of his salary was paid and I know he is talented. I don’t see the logic in giving up on him now while he is in the year where he really needs to prove himself.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
A basic problem with the argument
From my perspective either way the door is open for Harrell. From what I read the major difference between the two situations is the willingness to try and stow Wilson or Wynn on the PS. Jolly’s presence shouldn’t affect that resolve. If the Pack believes it can sneak a guy a there then why should Jolly’s presence affect this choice? If a guy will make it on the PS then put him there. If you think a team is going to take a good player then you keep him, no matter the depth you believe you have.
I think we should keep all 7 DLs
There is so much potential on this D-line! They are very young and talented, we have to play this out. We would have killed for this opportunity a couple years ago. I really want to give Harrell one last shot, and I cringe at the thought of putting CJ Wilson or Wynn on the Practice Squad. CJ’s a late rounder, but I think he will be a diamond in the rough.
agree
How about that Welzy… LOL
I like the depth we have on the DL. I would like to see Harrell contribute… I don’t want to see Wilson risked to put him on the practice squad either… I don’t think Wynn is eligible for PS any more. Pretty sure he played too much to put on practice squad this year. Honestly, if it came down to choosing between Wilson and Wynn, I would keep Wilson!
7 DL in a 3-4?
Wasn’t the point of moving to the 3-4 is so we didn’t have to have as many DL on the roster and could open up more LB spots and other players who are more versatile?
I’m going to come out right away and say that Wynn is a casualty. He’s a bit undersized for our current scheme, and I don’t know if he can seal off the point of attack the same way as some of the others. Six DL is a bit much, but not too bad and then we have some depth for the injuries that are bound to happen over the season.
by PackApologist on Jul 18, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed, Wynn would be the weakest link
But cutting Wynn and counting on Harrell is a very real risk.
In all fairness though, Wynn would never live to play a down. He only played last year when the game was out of reach for our opponent. Harrell provides more upside and most of his contract has already been paid. It is a risk, but do you think anybody would be interested in signing Wynn? He’s not special by any means. I’m not sure if he’s eligible for PS or not. Either way though, he can be replaced.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
THIS
is essentially the point I was trying to make. Having guys you can count on becomes even more important now that Jolly’s gone.
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 18, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah but
It’s not just people you can count on….it’s guys who can play football. Harrell will have more upside than Wynn or Wilson at this point. His only question is if he can stay healthy.
If Harrell can get through training camp healthy and show something then we need him even more now that Jolly is gone for the season.
by PackApologist on Jul 18, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Wilson
You cant say anything about Wilson at this point….Wilson was an animal at ECU and I remember him playing football in High School in North Carolina…We already know that Harrell is injury prone at this point, Wilson is a big guy with a high motor so lets not count him out before he even gets to camp. I think Wynn will be cut also..
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 19, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
We’ll see. The interesting thing about a well run NFL franchise is that play on the field is the great equalizer. I tend not to jump up and down for sixth and seventh round picks until something on the field itself separates them from other guys. Wilson could be the real deal, but we won’t find out for another few weeks.
By the way, love the handle. I always loved Space Ghost Coast to Coast.
by PackApologist on Jul 19, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know about the rest of you guys...
.. but I find site advertisements masquerading as fanposts offensive. I don’t like being duped or used, and this guy’s trying to do both. So I’m not clicking any of his links for “the goods” thanks.
If you want to build a following, make your arguments and comments here. If they’re good, we’ll check out your sign in information, see the link to your blog, and follow it. But I’m not going to watch you blurb your own writing here and then ask me to follow a link to find out if you’re just talking out your ass.
Absolutely shameless.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 4:01 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely wrecked.
Well played. And in most of you guys’ eyes, I’m the devil. :(
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
My grandma thinks I look just like him.
And, to a certain extent, I do, so, eh. Plus it always makes people ask “why?”
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Never knew you were a Bear fan, Ben.
You’re a shitty actor, but you made up for it by having more talented friends like Kevin Smith and Matt Damon. Better to be lucky than good, huh? Oh, and you better cut Smith off. Jersey Girl sucked. He’s all played out. Try showing up at a couple of Chris Nolan’s parties. Maybe he’ll throw you a bone and let Christian Bale beat the hell out of you when you play Henchman #3 in his next Batman film.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Or he could keep directing films.
Gone Baby Gone was great, and his new one looks just as good, if not better.
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Holy cow.
I didn’t know he directed Gone Baby Gone. I love that film. I’m going to have to reconsider my opinion of Mr. Affleck. I thought he was just a meat head frat boy type. Learn something new every day, I guess.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 19, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Not only did he direct it
He adapted the screenplay from the original novel. Did the same for his new motion picture event “The Town”
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
In addition to football
I like movies quite a bit, as well.
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Ah, ok. Im a Yankee fan so I hate the guy w/ a burning passion just cus hes a douche.
Favre 4 Ever
I Believe In Chris Drury
We all have that guy.
No worries.
If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?
Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Yeah I’m with you there Ted, but at least it prompts pretty good discussion so I’m not arguing too much.
by PackApologist on Jul 18, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry you feel that way!
If Brandon tells me to stop, then of course I will. Until then, I don’t see what’s wrong with simply sharing my site and the articles I write there. It’s all about spreading the Packers love, my man!
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 18, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm in the minority, apparently.
Put a link to your blog in your sig line and on your profile page, then write a couple of fanposts here without requiring the reader to jump to your page. you can write pretty well, from what the others have said. If that’s true, you’ll have people seeking out your website on their own without having to pull the bait and switch and making them jump off of SBN. Only seems fair to me, and you’ll still come by an audience in a more honest way, in my opinion, if you’re work is as good as they say.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Jul 18, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’d say that would be the best way, and more importantly the most professional way to go about getting his blog more discovered.
by packallday555 on Jul 18, 2010 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
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