A revised look at the roster (Post Jolly Edition)
by PackApologist on Jul 20, 2010 2:52 PM CDT
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PrintEven though it's way too early to look at who might make the final 53, it's a good time to bring the topic again. So who do you all think is in? Who is out? What are the key position battles come camp?
Who's in?
QB: 2 Rodgers and Flynn
RB: 5 Grant, Jackson, Starks, Johnson, Kuhn
WR: 5 Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Swain
TE: 4 Finely, Lee, Havner, Quarless
OL: 10 Clifton, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, Tausch, Bulaga, Colledge, Dietrich-Smith, Giacomini, Lang
DL: 6 Jenkins, Raji, Pickett, Wilson, Harrell, Neal
LB: 8 Matthews, Barnett, Hawk, Jones, Poppinga, Chillar, Bishop, Obizor
CB: 6 Woodson, Williams, Lee, Underwood, Bell, Shields (Harris starts the year on the PUP list)
S: 4 Collins, Burnett, Bigby, Martin
P: 1 Bryan
K: 1 Crosby
LS: 1 Goode
The rest after the jump.
First a few notes on my predictions:
1. Harris is on the PUP list. When he comes off that and on to the roster Bell is probably the guy who gets cut to make room for him.
2. I really have no clue who will be the punter. I mostly picked Bryan on the novelty of having an Aussie punter on the team. The games will play a big role and I wouldn't be surprised if the Pack really goes with someone who is on a different roster right now.
3. Breno made it. Right now the coaching staff seems pretty high on him. Who knows, if Breno can push Tausch for the starting job like Campen thinks, he may even be a vital asset and bring some much needed depth. That's the main reason why he made the list. In this case I'm assuming the Packers think they can sneak Newhouse to the Practice Squad for this year.
Who's out?
There are plenty of guys that could make it on any other roster that the Pack will have to part with. A few noteworthy ones:
1. Harrell. No, not that one! Graham Harrell. I really don't see the Pack keeping three QB's this year and I think they try to get him to the PS.
2. Wynn. Too small, I think they keep the injured wonder and the rookie instead.
3. Hall. A coin flip is the only difference between him and Kuhn.
Camp Battles?
The O-line Free-for-All: Basically the only two guys who have their position locked down is Clifton and Sitton. Apart from them everyone has a spot, but there will be competition. Colldege and Spitz will battle for LG, Spitz and Wells for C, Breno and Tausch for RT (I know I don't see it either, but I'll take Campen at his word).
The Safety Dance...err...Battle: This one we've talked about as well. So I won't bother too much with this one. We all know it, it's talked about all the time.
The Battle of the Third Wheel:
Part one, WR. James Jones and Jordy Nelson seem to be locked in an eternal battle to rise to above average. In reality this battle won't be won completely by either one and so they will split time once more. I do expect that this battle will become extra heated this year since there will be contracts coming up and each will want to set up to be the replacement to DD.
Part two, CB. This actually may be the most interesting battle of all of them. Will it be Pat Lee? A second round pick with high expectations and too many injuries? Or will it be Brandon Underwood? The second coming of Johnny Jolly on the Packer's Police blotter. Even though I have high hopes for Lee, I think Underwood will put it together on the field. Let's just hope that he can get it together off the field as well.
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That's part of being on the practice squad
Unless he lights it up in the preseason and it looks like another team will take him him, yeah. If Breno is as good as some are advertising right now then Newhouse is going to have a tough road ahead of him.
by PackApologist on Jul 20, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Newhouse should be a guard
The reason I have Breno getting the last spot on the line and not Newhouse is more out of how many linemen to keep rather then the specific position each plays. I don’t see the Packers keeping more than ten offensive linemen. O-linemen aren’t the most versitle, and extra roster spots will probably go to areas where depth is questionable (the secondary), too deep to just let someone good go a year too soon (TE), or for a player that could make an impact in special teams (both of the previous two positions plus LB).
The Packers have lots of guys that can fill in at the guard position (Spitz, Colledge, Sitton, Lang, Newhouse, and Bulaga in a pinch). They can only start two of those guys, so keeping four should provide adequate backups and allow depth at LG and RG.
The Packers also don’t want to have a whole bunch of guys changing positions in the offensive line. That means of the 53 there will probably be two back up tackles in the mix as well. Four guards and four tackles brings the total of O-linemen to 8.
Then the question becomes does there need to be a designated backup center like Dietrich-Smith. I defaulted to yes when looking at this, in order to cut down on the amount of musical chairs played. Dietrich-Smith will have his hands full keeping his job though, especially if some of the guards or swing tackles play very well, and Spitz looks healthy. Then there would be depth with a limited amount of rotation.
by PackApologist on Jul 20, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
special teams?
While I don’t disagree with your thought process, I think ultimately it will be decided by who plays special teams better. Dietrich Smith is cheaper and younger and plays in a few core special teams roles. Colledge offers too much experience to simply get rid of unless they can trade him for something of need. Newhouse will make it if he plays special teams well which at this point is TBD.
by gern blanston on Jul 21, 2010 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
4 tight ends?
Not sure about that. Your D-line roster looks sort of troubling, although you’re just reporting what’s available.
The four TE is probably going to be the wierd move this season. There always tends to be one of these things happening, especially when there is a close pairing of a talent at that position. I think they hold on to four TE’s this year and then go back down to three next year.
by PackApologist on Jul 21, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait
You people were complaining about 3 FB but your willing to keep 4 TE’s?! I don’t get it… I would not keep 4 TE’s. Havner is nothing bu a ST player and Lee has said he will take as many reps on ST as he can get… We need Lee for experience and blocking. Quarless has too much potential to risk on practice squad. Havner is not worth keeping. He’ll never be more than a fringe roster player! I don’t see any reason at all that he deserves a roster spot.
The big guestion is...
If we are going to have someone besides Spitz backing up Wells at Center, does that mean we can expect Spitz to be moved to LG primariy?? Colledge cannot be in the starting 5 this year if we really want to make a run. Here is what i think…Clifton, Spitz, Wells, Sitton, Tauscher…They should develop Newhouse this year if thats what it takes and keep Colledge as a back up or Lang if possible…But there is no need to re-sign Colledge with the idea of Lang at backup guard and Newhouse fitting in next year if Breno can prove himself at Tackle…
Why?
Why can’t Colledge be in the lineup of we wanna make a run? He was the starting LG when we made the playoffs and the NFC Championship game in 07 and the playoffs last year!!! You might as well get used to the fact that he is the starter again this year… Beyond that his contract is up and his returning beyond that is questionable, but largely dependent on his play this season!
Lang should be the left guard
I get it the team wants him to be a tackle, and I agree that he needs to pick a position and stick with it, but I still say the man’s a left guard, not a right tackle.
Shaking my head..
I think most would agree and I’m going to poll the question at some point…Jason Spitz!! You want Colledge but Spitz is better!!Come on man..just because he had a descent season after the 6-10 season does not mean the guy should still start! Seriously, if College starts here comes the early holding penalties that will slow down any pace that the offense puts together.
Spitz has a bad back
This needs to be figured in, especially since it was the same back injury Harrell had. This is not an easy thing to get over. The back is an essential thing for an O-line in helping get leverage and so I want to see what Spitz can do before I say that he is a hands down upgrade over Colledge.
by PackApologist on Jul 20, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
I was going to make that same point, and started to reference it on another thread. Spitz hasn’t played or practiced all offseason! There’s no way of knowing how he will play when he gets on the field. Add to that the fact he has always gotten his reps at RG and C, that makes Colledge the unquestioned starter!!!
Spacey is letting his prejudice against Colledge cloud his judgement… Colledge is about a 95% chance of being the LG, IMO.
You let your prejudice against Jones cloud yours…I Just have no faith in Colledge…Obviously i know about the back situation with Spitz, all im saying is that we need to go with someone new at LG.
No prejudice...
Against Jones whatsoever… I hope he proves me wrong and plays like a 34 OLB needs to. I just haven’t seen anything resembling that kinda play from him! Can you honestly say he has, despite the fact that he was involved in NO game changing plays? Sorry, but if you say you have your freakin dellusional!!! Even in college his athletic ability was far better than the results he produced… Some might call that an underachiever. Not that I would go that far…
not in a knowledgeable position to disagree, but...
the way that the personnell guys judge a player is by looking at cut ups of just that one guy. They track his tendencies, abilities, strengths, and weaknesses that way. I believe that coaches tend to over analyze some things and perhaps not see something that they don’t want to see. Yet they certainly watch more than I or any of my friends do.
When I watch a game, I usually just follow the ball. I don’t do a very good job of seeing the whole field like say Madden or Collinsworth do unless I see a player out of position like on a zone blitz. If I isloate on a player and just watch him (Clay Matthews is fun to watch like that) I can critique his performance. To simply quote stats and have a general feeling for what a guy is or isn’t doing doesn’t tell the whole story IMO. I’m optimistic that Jones will be the dude we all hope he will be, but I’ll believe it when I see it.
by gern blanston on Jul 21, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Roster
Your roster looks pretty good, but I would make a couple changes…
1. I don’t see Havner making the roster. I think another LB makes it over him. I release Havner and put Zombo or Francois in his place… Havner has little upside as a TE but is a good ST player. But I think one of the LB would be as good or better on ST.
2. Blackmon makes the team somehow… Either in place of Havner or more likely over Martin or Shields. There is no way someone other than Blackmon is doing punt returns and at least for now is still the best kick returner and most experienced and versatile DB.
I was just going to mention Blackmon making the team. Take out Martin in this case for him. We don’t need more than 4 safeties on the active roster.
I think Newhouse will make it, otherwise another team will pick him up off the practice squad. That’d be a waste of another draft pick. Kind of like what Buffalo did last year with our OT on our PS. Forgot his name though. Newhouse can provide flexibility in being a last reserve OG for RG or LG. Take out Evan Dietrich-Smith. I’m not the biggest fan of musical chairs, but as long as it doesn’t involve Guard’s moving to the Tackle position, I’m ok with it. If Wells is injured, we have Spitz to play. That’s even considering Spitz wins the LG spot, that the musical chairs will begin. If Colledge wins the LG position, that’s an even bigger reason why we shouldn’t keep Dietrich-Smith on the active roster.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Jamon Meredith is the guy you're thinking of
by gern blanston on Jul 21, 2010 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah the Meredith deal still burns at me. Although he really didn’t light it up in Buffalo last year, so who knows.
by PackApologist on Jul 21, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
You know I was kicking myself after I saw this thread
I really should of included Blackmon. This is especially true since I only reluctantly threw in Martin. So trading these two out would be very fine in my book.
As for Havner, I stand by this. I get the more LBs thing, but I don’t think any of the free agent OLB’s have enough to really out last Havner. I just keep thinking about how he made it on to the team in the first place. He was on the practice squad and the coaching staff noticed that he always seemed to be open, and was just able to slip away from coverage. He just might be the type of guy who is generally forgettable to another D and then slip in and make a TD catch. That ability is just enough to save his skin for another year.
by PackApologist on Jul 21, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
If we get to the point where we need a 9th LB to play, I am sure Havner could fill in there. If that situation comes up, I am not sure a street FA like Zombo would even outperform Havner.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Jul 21, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Keep Havner
Maybe next year we can drop it down from 4 to 3 TE’s. Don’t think of Havner as a TE though, think of Havner as a quality utility player. He’s listed as a TE, but can play TE, FB, or LB. He’s at his best on Special Teams and near the red zone (lucky or not, he got TD’s).
Cut Quarless? I don’t think so. Waste of a pick. He has potential. Doubtful he’ll do anything as a rookie, so let him sit and learn just the way Finley did.
Donald Lee is the odd man out. However, I don’t think the team is willing to cut its veteran TE. Lee is still somewhat reliable as a blocker and can prove to be an asset as a 2nd TE. He’ll be overpaid to be a backup, but we’ll maximize our potential to score with him playing behind Finley.
Conclusion- We reduce our roster to 3 FB’s, but increase it to 4 TE’s.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Think what a luxury of talent the offensive line has compared to last year. Night and Day.
I still remember how mad I was last year that there was such confidence in Barbre being able to play. Breno has been what they call a project, but when times were dire, they had no confidence in him. This year, we KNOW Lang can play, and it’s a good assumption Bulaga can play. Rodgers will be upright both semesters.
Colledge can play at a high level, but keep him at one position and Spitz’s presence should be sufficient to keep the fires lit.
He can, but will he?
I don’t have a clear cut answer on who should be our starting LG. I like Spitz a lot more than Wells at C, but then we have question marks at LG. If we put Wells at C, then we have have Spitz and Colledge battling for 1 position. I believe Spitz is better than Wells. I’m not sure how Colledge will do. He was good in 08’, then bad in 09’. We’ll see I guess. I’d hate to see Spitz sitting on the bench. Then again, he does have back pain issues.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Yep, other than Blackmon, this is a pretty good list. Personally, I’d be fine with 1 FB and 3 TEs, but we all know how MM goes gaga for these types of guys. …“Football players”! I’d like to tell him that LBs are football players too, and it’s better to have an over-abundance of defenders rather than offensive players. Not to mention that tackling is kinda’ their job, so they make better ST guys. Plus, it’s a much bigger advantage to rotate guys in on defense and offensive line than anywhere else. But (sigh), they fixate on FBs and TEs, so I’m sure this list is accurate.
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