Who's in at TE?
by Green and Bold on Jul 23, 2010 6:46 AM CDT
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This is the fifth installment of JonBob's first annual Camp Countdown Questions series. Each day leading up to July 31st, we'll be posing a crucial question the Pack need to answer in training camp.
If three's company, what does that make four? That's the question Ted Thompson will have to answer as he looks at the Packers' current TE situation. As we've discussed previously, the addition of Andrew Quarless to a group that already features Jermichael Finley, Donald Lee, and Spencer Havner means that one of the above mentioned players could be out of a job in the near future.
Of the four, Finley appears to be the only lock to make the team. So what do the rest need to do in order to increase their chances of making the cut?
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LOL
this topic was already discussed in the 3 FB Fanpost.
I think most are in agreement that we can’t have more than 3 TE’s, and Spencer Havner is the odd man out. Then there are the very few that want 4 TE’s just this year for Special Teams purposes.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
if we can keep 3 FBs
than why not 4 TEs? I think it makes a lot more sense from a positional value stand point. The Packers didnt have the players to warrant 4 TEs last year, but with Quarless added to the mix, they very well might this year. All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t be surprised.
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 23, 2010 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions
As long as we dont keep 3 FBs AND 4 TEs...
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Jul 23, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he plans on keeping 4
Heck I think Havner will be quickly outclassed and will be at #4. He was okay last year but really if you take away the TDs he didn’t do anything on offense.
What did Hall do on offense?
TT’ s showed before that he will keep guys on the squad for primarily ST’s abilities. Havner has that going for him. He also has the fact that, according to all signs at this point, Quarless will not be ready to make an immediate impact.
I liken it to what happened with the FB’s last year. TT really liked Johnson, but he wasn’t ready to play. So TT kept the two vets. I can see something similar playing out at TE.
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 23, 2010 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions
true true...
its possible they go that route but heck Havner was almost a move they did cause we had NO ONE else. It turns out we needed him too.
I think Quarless will be on the Finley 1st year intern plan. He is too talented to try to stash on the PS so he will get the 4th TE spot and be inactive for most games. If it turns out that he can play ST at a reasonably high level then he may bump Havner off the team and be the 3rd TE.
"I agree but dont agree"
by juggernaut400 on Jul 23, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
One of his TD’s was a pretty darn athletic scamper. Having 4 TD’s is nothing to sneeze at. They don’t happen by accident 4 time in the NFL. So I’m not counting him out. If one of these guys figures out how to block Lee maybe the odd man out.
yeah I get that...
I just think we all overvalue him a little based off limited production. Maybe they turn him back into a LB for roster purposes or something. He does have some ST value but there is no guarantee that someone else doesn’t take that spot from him. WE have some rookies to make room for.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Lee going but I don’t think it will happen unless Quarless REALLY shows up. We need his veteran abilities!
Yeah Havner does smack of being the second coming of Samkon Gado…doesn’t he?
by PackApologist on Jul 25, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Linebacker
Wasn’t this guy a linebacker 2 years ago. They obviously saw some athletic attributes to switch him to tightend. That comeplete position switch rarely works. so to have come this far already I’m not counting him out. As a added bonus linebackers are usually your better coverage guys on special teams should help him there.
Have to wonder
If Havner failed at LB, why anyone would think he is going to be a success at TE, a position that generally requires more athleticism… I’m not saying he’s a poor athlete, but if he couldn’t make it at LB…
He’s really nothing to get excited about, IMO. He was uncovered any time he caught a pass and was only a safety valve. Its not like he was actually running a route and gettin open! Do you really want a TE that can’t run routes or beat coverage in any way? I don’t…
If Havner proves he is better on Special Teams then any of the undrafted LB's on our roster
What’s the point of cutting Havner in support of having a couple LB’s that’ll probably never play a down?
I totally understand the logic that no team should have 4 TE’s. However, Quarless may not even see the field. At least I don’t think he’s ready. If Havner proves to be better on Special Teams than any of those other LB’s, then I want Havner on the roster. We are looking to improve our Special Teams unit, right?
It’s like what Vince Lombardi was once quoted in saying, “I’d rather be lucky then good.” That quote applies to his lucky TD’s in the end zone. No, I don’t feel Havner will spend his career here in Green Bay as a TE. I don’t see anything special in him, but he is one of the very few players on our roster that can actually cover on Special Teams.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Lee is also a darn good ST player. He had to do it for about 3 yrs in order to earn a roster spot. He hasn’t been playing ST for a couple years cuz he was playing alot from scrimmage. So then Lee is just picking up the reps that Havner was doing, plus you get to keep a player at another position that actually might have some potential. Its almost a 2 players for 1 situation. You get Lee and another position player for Havner.
Thats been my thinking all along!
Lee isn’t quite as young or quick as he was when he did play on ST though. Just a thought.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Lee ALSO happens to be the invisible man on offense...
Name the opponent against which Donald Lee scored his most recent TD…
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 26, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
IThe last 2 years I haven’t been a Lee fan he seems to drop balls when we need them. Didn’t he drop a touchdown last year against Minnesota that could have changed the outcome of the game.
thats retarded
Driver isnt going anywhere and can still play at a high level…Just because he led the team in drops doesnt mean the guys doesnt have vice grips for hands…
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 27, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Said in jest to comment above mine bout Lee.
After this season Driver is very likely going somewhere else. I don’t see Thompson keeping an aging, slowing WR in favor of a WR that is younger and cheaper. You may not like it, but Driver isn’t irreplacable. Both Driver and Jones are FA after this season and there is no reason to believe that if given the #2 WR job he couldn’t put up the same numbers as Driver. I would be preparing myself to say Good Bye Donald if I were you…
Misinformation
Lee led the Packers by far dropping 14.6 % of his passes
Yea...
I didnt know you were talkin about Lee…My bad, but he isnt going anywhere at the moment…He is our best blocking TE and most experienced..
Donald Driver is going to get thrown at more than other recievers like Jones and Nelson..Therefor more drops…Did you not see him 1 hand a deep ball twice last year? He had 70 receptions, 1,061 yards, and 6 Touchdowns…yea he sucks, we should definatly let him go…
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 28, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, great plays
and I didn’t say he sucks!!! But that doesn’t change the fact that he is at the age when the cliff comes awfully quick. And in the NFL there is a saying… Better to let a guy go a year too early, than hold onto him a year too long!!! Jones had 460 yds and shared the #3 WR role w/ Nelson. THere is absolutely no reason to think that if he was the unquestioned #2 WR like Driver is that he couldn’t double his numbers from last year if not more!!! That would give him 68 rec over 900 yds and 10 TD’s… That work for you?!!
your math equasions...
Dont alwase translate on the field…Instead of cutting DD make him the #3 or 4 reciever…He is a team player and i think that he is willing to do whatever he can to help the team…
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 28, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Drivers team is his family!!! The one he puts food on the table for… He isn’t going to be the #3 or 4 WR if he can go to another team and make more $$$ and be a #2 WR.
Better to let a guy go a year too early, than hold onto him a year too long!!! Learn it, know it, live it… Its the business of the NFL!!!
Time will tell
Besides…Who is it thats going to pay him all of these dollars considering your argument that he is getting so much older? Driver will finish his career in Green Bay…You are so quick to push proven veterans out the door and then doubt every rookie that comes in… Then you make an argument that Special Teams arent important in success…Where does your infinate wisdom that none of us can obtain come from??
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 29, 2010 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions
He could start
For half the teams in the NFL… And do all of them have backups like Jones and Nelson? I don’t think soo…
Did Favre finish his career is GB? I ain’t pushing anyone out the door, but I am saying the NFL is a BUSINESS and there isn’t any place for your sentimentality!!!
Didn’t say ST arent important, pointed out to someone who said you cant win a SB w/ poor ST (you?) that NO and Indy finished in the bottom 1/4 of ST in the league!!!
Quite being immature and TRYING to put words in my mouth!!! And while your at it get over your sentimentality!!! THis is the NFL and there is NO place for it…
You sound like a whiney little school girl when you do!!!
School Girl?
Seriously? I didnt put any words in your mouth, and i never said you need great ST to win a superbowl i said we need to improver ours inorder for us to be a contender…Dont get shitty about it because i made a joke, The point im making is that if we dont have Al Harris come back and add to our weak corner position then we are in serious trouble, DD we could do without but i think that he would except a role on the team…Stop expecting me to bend over because you use !!!!!!!!!’s after your sentences…
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 29, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
See
You threw out the retarded and I didn’t even respond to it. Just posted… Now the tables are returned and you act like what? Yeah exactly what I said!!!
When you wrap your head around the fact that… Its better to get rid of a guy a year too soon rather than a year late, maybe you’ll be mature enough to keep some PERSPECTIVE!!! Its not the name on the back I root for it the PACKERS. Players come and go, Packers do not… Grow UP!
Oh wow
I had no idea you were so sensitive for someone to be so oppinionated and to be throwing the little girl thing around is funny…I personally like our quarless because it brings perspectives that i can appreciate…if you want to get Poopy about it cool, I just figured that you could take it…
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 29, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Quarrels
I guess i had a rookie TE on my mind…
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 29, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m over it, my bad…look forward to the next debate
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 29, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Comon
Both Driver and Harris play a position where you can probably count on one hand where a guy was still excelling that side of 35 and the decline usually starts sooner. Both players have been blessed to excel this long and maybe Driver excels 1,2,more years but the decline when it happens is usually very rapid. Look around who is 35 and still playing at WR, Torry Holt, TO, I think they both are just guessing but both are a fraction of the player they were and both were better to begin with.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been Drivers and Harris’s biggest fan through their careers and they may have more but can’t be much.
Two of the greatest long term elite franchises were great largely because of there ability to recognize when to let a player go. New England and San Fran during there run. I remember when they let Ronnie Lott go I was like wtf but they were right. San Fran let Montana go but replaced him with Young, it was sad but they were right.
Green Bay let Brett Farve go at the time very unpopular but I don’t think anyone but the most pigheaded is arguing now that it was time.
i reckon
that since woodson is no spring chicken that thompson shouldn’t resign him either after his contract is up. woodson will be35 when his current contract is up, so realease him as well if he doesn’t win another DPOY award in the next 2 years.
The question is...
When he leaves, either through being released or retire whatever, who are we going to replace him with…If Tramon is going to replace Harris then who else do we have to count on? Im guessing we will see a Draft Pick used at Corner this year…I wish we woulda taken Javier Arenas but i think we wasnt available…
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 29, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Wood has like 3 or 4 yrs left on his contract… He’ll be like 38 when its up! Quite trying to start an argument!
OMFG
I tried making ammends with your ass but i’m asking a legit question where i wanted to hear other opinions…Shit, isnt that why were here to discuss?
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 29, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
risk/reward
Do you give up on promising development player for a ST guy that really doesn’t have a position on the field? That is the kind of things that coaches have to work on all the time. Havner was in the right place at the right time for most of those TDs. We have to keep in mind, he had SEVEN catches on the entire season, four of them happened to be for TDs. I remember Vrabel doing that a few times in one season for the Pats too. I never thought of him as being a real threat as a LB, just someone they stuck in there from time to time when needed.
Its going to be tough but I don’t see him making it if some of our rookies show some promise on ST.
Lee
I dont see Lee going anywhere…Think of the experience that he brings and he is still the best blocking tight end we have…Quarless and Havner will battle for the #3 in my opinion..
by SpaceGhost34 on Jul 27, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Has anyone done any digging into TT's thoughts on this?
I was wondering with the pick of Quarless whether or not he was looking to deal one of the TE’s (Havner or Lee, most likely the latter). I think both Havner and Lee offer the team something virtually in opposition of each other.
by Bush League All Star on Jul 23, 2010 1:47 PM CDT reply actions
Havner has no trade value and Lee has too much value to the Packers as an experienced backup, mentor to Finley and Quarless and as a lockerroom leader! I just don’t see any reason to keep Havner around w/ Lee more than able to play his ST roles!
There has been nothing in the media about any trades… Not that we would hear anything anyway… Thompson keeps a tight lid on any info coming out of GB.
THIS
is becoming my line of thinking as well.
Havner is a nice story, but he is not capable of stepping in at the #1 TE spot and keeping production high. Lee is the only competent #2 we have on the roster now, and with Finley’s less than perfect injury history, we need a solid second option.
The only way this changes is if QUARLESS has a huge training camp/preseason and proves that he’ll be able to step in right away. Then Lee becomes expendable. Until then, Havner is hoping TT keeps 4 or that Quarless absolutely stinks it up in camp.
"stay (green and) gold"
by Green and Bold on Jul 23, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what I've seen out of Havner
Sounds like the coaching staff loves Havners hands and think he’ll contribute in the run game.
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