Start: Name The Starting Outside Linebackers
by Brandon on Aug 19, 2010 7:01 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Training Camp
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PrintThis picks up where the post from earlier this week discussing the Green Bay Packers inside linebackers left off. The thing they have in common is LB Brandon Chillar. Where is this guy going to play in 2010?
Here's the official Packers.com depth chart. Currently 6 players are listed at outside LB.
LB Clay Matthews. He got off to a slow start in 2009 due to a hamstring injury, and went onto lead the team with 10 sacks. He's off to a slow start again in 2010 because of another hamstring injury. So another double digit sack season is in order? My only question is whether to wear The Mighty Clay or The Claymaker.
Chillar. He's currently listed as the starter on the weak side opposite of Matthews. He signed a four-year contract extension back in December, so I guess they fell obligated to start him somewhere. He seems to do everything well, but he's not exceptional in any way. I watched him consistently put no pass pressure on the quarterback in the first preseason game, so he won't pick up the slack left behind by LB Aaron Kampman. I like him well enough on the inside in place of LB A.J. Hawk, but not at outside LB.
LB Brady Poppinga. Another linebacker who GM Ted Thompson inexplicably gave a long-term extension. He's a coach's dream because he always seems to know his role and he's working as hard as anyone on the defense. But he just doesn't do anything. In 43 career starts, he has recorded 4 sacks, 2 INTs and 2 forced fumbles. Those are solid numbers for a single season, but not over 43 starts. I guess that makes him a solid backup, but he'll provide little pass rush if he has to play in place of Matthews on the strong side.
LB Brad Jones. He looked great against the Browns (albeit their reserves) in the first preseason game. But he looked good last preseason too, and then recorded 4 sacks him in his first 7 career starts during the regular season. Again, he's shown much greater potential as a pass rusher than Chillar (who only has 7.5 career sacks in 52 career starts).
LB Frank Zombo. He's currently listed as a weak side backup, but when he shoved the Browns lineman into QB Colt McCoy (which led to McCoy's injury and an INT) he was playing on the strong side. He's almost exactly the same size and weight as Matthews (6'3", 254 lbs.) so it seems more natural that he'd back him up. I have to see more of him this preseason, but he's off to a good start.
LB Cyril Obiozor. He seems to be a favorite of outside linebackers coach Kevin Greene, but he looked like a project last season. In 2009, he played little after he was activated from the practice squad. He's off to a slow start too because he missed the first preseason game with a calf injury, and he's just returned to practice this week.
While both Zombo and Obiozor certainly have a chance to win a roster spot, I'm excluding them from the poll because it's nearly impossible to believe either of them could start in week 1.
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I like Matthews and Jones and I’d like Chillar for his coverage skills to sub in and out with Jones and Hawk. Capers uses enough specialty defenses that could utilize Chillars talents that he ends up playing as much as a starter anyway. I thought Jones did well last year he should be much better this year.
The mighty clay one is too phallic.
Plus the hair on the claymaker one is just ridiculously awesome.
All is vanity.
Matthews and Chillar
Jones was great vs Cleveland? Are you serious?!! 2 tackles and NO pressure on the QB either (same line as Chillar I think)!!! He didn’t do any better than Chillar in that regard! Jones rushed plenty and didn’t lay a hand on the QB! I’m sick of the Jones luvfest over his 4 coverage sacks!!!
Also Poppinga was drafted to play SamLB in the 43 Defense… I admit he is ill-suited to play it in a 34 D. He also has alot of value he brings in terms on energy, Special Teams and all around TEAM oriented play and lockerroom presence. Never underestimate the value of a guy that is soo TEAM oriented! Why does Thompson keep him around? He is what Thompson was when he played!
I don’t think Obiozor has developed as a pass rusher. He has the physical gifts, but like in college he lacks any football instincts! I would definitely keep Zombo over him. Zombo was a good pass rusher in college and has the same athletic ability as Obi, IMO. Keep Zombo and work on his pass rush skills and pass drops so he becomes a complete 34 OLB. Then draft one in the 1st round next year too. Just can’t have enough pass rushers at OLB in the 34 D…
Sick of Jones' lovers???
Some are sick of Jones’ haters! He reminds me of Johnny Holland.
Jones is best as a backup OLB… Not a starter. Hope he proves me competely wrong, but I don’t see it. Reminds of Holland? In what regard? Holland was a 2nd rd draft pick and an Inside LB.
Didn’t say I was sick of Jones fans… Just sick of the luvfest he gets for doing next to nothing!!! A couple coverage sacks, no turnover plays, no game changing plays whatsoever! All this just cuz he was a 7th rd pick who played in case of an emergency and was at best adequate!
Just sick of the luvfest he gets for doing next to nothing!!! A couple coverage sacks, no turnover plays, no game changing plays whatsoever!
was this article about hawk or jones?—————wait, has to be jones. you mentioned a couple sacks, so i know it isn’t about hawk.
not nearly as much a playmaking position
ahhhh————i would think every position on the defense is a playmaking position. if the play is coming at you or the pass is in your zone or going to your man in coverage, that individual has every opportunity to make a play on the ball or ball-carrier.
if your talking just about sacks and int’s, well, imo——-jones didn’t do a whole lot of blitzing last year compared to other 3-4 lb’s. you must realize that our 3-4 defense that capers runs is different than the way pittsburgh runs their 3-4. pitt and the jets use a very agressive, attack style 3-4 where their db’s play a lot of man, where capers seems to try and confuse the qb’s with multiple looks and different players and plays more zone behind it. 2 very different philosophies (imo)
jones didn’t do a whole lot of blitzing last year compared to other 3-4 lb’s. you must realize that our 3-4 defense that capers runs is different than the way pittsburgh runs their 3-4.
Thank you for pointing this out. We relied on Jones to drop back into coverage quite often and he did a good job of it. I think that’s the reason he gets “the luvfest”. Now whether he dropped back more because he lacked pass rushing ability or because Matthews was just really good is debatable but eitther way, the way he was primarily used in our system has to be recognized.
by packallday555 on Aug 19, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
True
You didn’t here his name mentioned because he was covering his guy and wasn’t beaten often in pass defense. Thanks for pointing that out he didn’t blitz much. One final point I,m glad you brought up we played zone more than man to man, some people think we were a man to man team last year I was wondering what season they were watching.
I guess
The fact that Hawk comes out on passing downs escaped you… Don’t you think that limits his Int’s and sacks? Most 34 ILB are run down players, so no… They aren’t playmakers or on the field enough to be playmakers!
If our D is soo much different than Pitts why is it that Capers help design Pitts D? They have playmakers at OLB, and we have Jones… Why do you think he was in coverage most of the time? Cuz he sucked rushing the QB!!!!
Maybe. I think more so it had to do with Matthews turning out to be a really good pass rusher, and already being proven.
by packallday555 on Aug 19, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
If our D is soo much different than Pitts why is it that Capers help design Pitts D?
obviously, you don’t watch other teams. it is painfully obvious for even a casual football fan that pitt and the jets 3-4 philosophies are different than the pack. i’m sorry you can’t see the obvious.
next point——-capers—-helped design the the pitts d?, actually it was dick lebeau that really designed that defense. i guess you can say that holmgren helped bill walsh design the west coast offense in san francisco as well.
Walk off
Capers doesn’t play the same way as Pitts cuz he doesn’t have Woodley and Harrison. He has Matthews who is similar, but he’s got Jones who is NOT A PLAYMAKER!!! So he uses them to their strengths!!!
LeBeau and Capers worked together to design the defense they both use now. Its adapted to meet the strengths of the players they have, thats the real difference!!!
HOME RUN!!!! Game over… Walk off Home run by the Strohman!!! the hermit goes back to his cave…
strike 3
sit down and better luck next time.
i guess
that means if you don’t have the qb or receivers to run a west coast offense, some of these teams in the nfl(about half run some sort of the west coast) might as well run the single wing. LOL!!!!
capers or lebeau aren’t going to change their schemes to match their players, it’s their scheme and they’ll run it every year. i guess if harrison and woodley go down this year with injury, Lebeau would not blitz and just play a cover 2 defense than………..LOL!!!
SACKED !!!!!!! game over…..strohman wobbles to his feet, starts going over to hermits side of the field. hermit politely points in the direction of stroh’s sideline and says " sorry son, you’re just overmatched"
So your saying that there are WR out there that are incapable of running a slant or a crossing pattern? LOL BAD, HORRIBLE example… What type of WR does the west coast need? A 6’2 200 lbs one like Jerry Rice? a 6’ 215 Sterling SHarpe? or maybe a 5’10 170 DeSean Jackson? Or maybe the slow as molasses Steve Largent? Seems any WR of any size and speed can play WR in the WCO if he is a capable route runner, which is far more important than size or speed in creating seperation. Route running can be taught. Same isn’t nearly as true of pass rushers! Woodley and Harrison are pass rushers, Jones is not, no matter how much technique he learns. So by your “logic” Jones should be rushing the passer even if he’s incapable of it?!!! LOL
Or maybe you want to use the QB analogy? What QB does it take to run the WCO. The big armed Favre or the average arm Montana? Or maybe the limp noodle armed Kosar? Any QB w/ accuracy can run the WCO. If you have a QB who can’t be accurate he’s not in the NFL period!!! And thats not to say that there aren’t some QB’s better suited for the WCO, cuz there are.
Capers uses Jones to his strengths. Jones isn’t a good pass rusher, but is capable in coverage so thats what he uses him for and he adjusts his scheme and play calling accordingly! Its not Capers fault that he doesn’t have a pass rushing OLB better than Jones.
If LeBeau doesn’t have Woodley and Harrison but does have Matthews and Jones would he still blitz Jones even though he’s not good at it? Doesn’t that seem like a waste of a player!!! What D did Capers run at Carolina when he had Kevin Greene and Lamar Lathon, both of whom racked up 10+ sack seasons in ‘96? He used same D then as he does now but he had 2 premier pass rushers! Put another one of those next to Matthews and you suddenly see the Packer D looking alot more like Pitts!!! So how do you account for the fact that Capers D in Carolina when he was the HC had 2 premier pass rushers? He used the Pitts scheme then and he’s using it now, but Jones can’t get to the QB consistently so he doesn’t waste a player doing something he isn’t capable of!!!
Strohman spins out of the sack and finds Jennings deep for the SCORE!!! Hermit is crushed and quites!!!
LMAO!!!!
so you’re basing the 3-4 defensive schemes all on sacks? pitt and the jets play mostly man to man in their 3-4 and both teams d-line play the gap with their de’s. the packers play mostly zone and their de’s are heads up on the OT’s. those are 2 differences in philosophies already.
So how do you account for the fact that Capers D in Carolina when he was the HC had 2 premier pass rushers?
simple, he brought them in. who’s to say jones couldn’t have gotten 10 sacks last year. what did he have 4-5 sacks in 8 starts—————that would compute to about 8-10 sacks in a 16 game schedule wouldn’t it? the fact remains the pack will still play more zone behind it and the d-line will play head up on OT"S. different schemes.
final point——-if capers 3-4 suits the strengths of his players, than why doesn’t he play more man to man, because according to you, al harris’s strength is playing a press man coverage. your theory just went up in smoke.
i will type this slowly so you can understand————-a……..dc…….scheme……is……his……scheme……players……..adapt…….to…..it………not……..the….other…..way……..around.
if you remember jenkins wasn’t happy about the switch to the 3-4 when capers arrived in green bay, he thought alls he was going to do was take a gap and make a pile.(pitt,jets way), but than capers explained to him that his way of running the 3-4 was a more head up on the ot, he was fine….remember that?
getting back to lebeau, he was the architect of the 3-4 defense, he brought it in with the bengals(i believe) in the mid 80’s when you were probably pooping in your diaper.other dc’s tweaked the 3-4 to their liking, just like the wco. many teams run different versions of it and they are all different. you probably don’t know that dick lebeau also coached the packers db’s in the late 70’s under starr either, back than you were just probably stuck on some page of the playboy magazine.
If
Jones could have gotten 10 sacks why didn’t he? I mean getting pressure on the QB is far more important than dropping everyone in coverage isn’t it? Greene and Lathon had 14.5 and 13.5 sacks respectively. Jones had 4 sacks, but then why was he in coverage all the time? Probably because Capers realized he wasn’t producing sacks but falling into them!! LOL If Jones could/can rush the QB so well and putting pressure on the QB is the best way to beat QB why wasn’t Jones rushing?
I’ve been trying to find stats on last years D. From the conversations I"ve had w/ other we all seem to agree that the Packers still played mostly press man coverage! Since it is Harris and Woodson stengths. Woodson is a CB who can play very well in any D man, zone doesn’t matter… He’s just a very instinctive player! The Packers are going to be playing more zone as Harris leaves.
The steelers played the zone blitz 34 scheme. Capers an LeBeau designed that scheme together!!! Just cuz Lebeau brought a basic 34 from some place else means nothing!
The DC tweaked it to thier liking? Well some/most people would say that is fitting the scheme to the player skills… See you do agree w/ me!!! Guess that makes me the winner. They don’t tweak schemes just for nothing, they tweak it to make it as effective as they can for the players they have!!!
Adapts a defense to a players strength most over used cliche
I have heard every coordinator say that at one time or another, no one schemes their defense to his players weakness. That being said overall I’m very happy with Capers and I understand you can’t rush Clay Matthews everytime you become to predictable. After all Kevin Greene says he has natural ability in pass coverage.
But I think everyone would agree Matthews greatest strength is rushing the passer so it pissed me off when a couple of are games were on the line he had Clay back in coverage. I sat there screaming at the TV in the Pittsburg game when he wasn’t taking advantage of our players strengths.
rex ryan
just tweeted………." we can’t run our agressive stle 3-4 defense this year, because revis, the best man to man cover guy in the league, isn’t in camp. he has told his players and fans thathe will be swithching over to a 4-3 defense because they don’t have a shut down corner and will be forced to play cover 2, because that is what matches their personnel now. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
DOWN GOES STROHMAN!!!!! DOWN GOES STROHMAN!!!!! from a vicious right hook from hermit. (announcer) “he would be wise to stay down after that exchange”
i will have to admit—————this is fun and i have many more cliche’s to use up.
I agree about Jones...
… I thought Jones looked good in the Cleveland game. I remember one series he was involved in all the stoppages, in a 3 and out series. It was in the third quarter, so not when the first teams were out there. I think he has more upside than Chillar and Poppinga, being younger and all
Ooops
You keep talking him up for being involved… But he wasn’t… 2 tackles! What about being involved in any turnover or game changing plays? Why is he never involved in those? How about passes defensed? If he is soo good in coverage shouldn’t he have more of those? He had 1 (one) in 8 games!!! By your rational Hawk is involved alot too even if he doesn’t make the tackles. Or does being involved now mean just being on the field?
Haha why do you hate the guy so much? You talk about him not forcing turnovers and getting a million sacks in his rookie year like it’s the end of the world or something! It’s not. And all the 4 sacks he did have were simply “coverage sacks”. Why is this never mentioned for Clay? Quite a few of his sacks could have been considered “coverage sacks”. I’d say 4-5 of his sacks this past season were just due to his motor, and relentlessness on the pass rush. Jones did the same on his “coverage sacks”.
Jones had a good showing against the Browns. I’m not sure why you aren’t able to see that..He showed more strength, and had a couple nice bull rushes. As well as blowing up a couple running plays in the backfield. I said this a couple days ago, PackFaninFL said it just now, Jabooty said it in one of his reviews about the game, and I’m sure others did too. Do you think we all simply imagined Jones playing good or are just making it up lol?
Give the guy a chance! It’s only his second season! Like hermit said above, his job last season most of the time was to drop back into coverage. He did it well, which is why he received praise from McCarthy time and time again last season. You have to keep in mind that he was brought in as a PROJECT. He was underweight coming in as a rookie, and his pass rush skills probably weren’t where the staff would have liked them to be either (which again was probably known and expected). I’m sure the FO figured they’d have a while to develop him before he saw playing time, which obviously didn’t end up happening. He came in and laid a good base to build from, and we’ll be able to see whether or not he does this season but until then, we should probably refrain from simply writing him off.
by packallday555 on Aug 20, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
hate
I have said MANY time, I don’t hate Jones… I just don’t get the luvfest you guys heap on him. And honestly, as I have also said many times, I hope he proves me wrong!!!
Why no mention of Matthews? Cuz he was rushing all the time and getting consistent pressure! Not too mention starting to get doubled alot near the end of the season!
Whats a good bull rush? WHere he backs up the OL a little but doesn’t disrupt the QB? Thats not a productive bull rush! Its a failed bull rush… The only thing that matters is did he get pressure on the QB! Did he do that? I didn’t see it…
In the run game he should be better. Gaining some wt should help w/ that.
MY guestion is WHY did he ALWAYS drop into coverage? If he was a good pass rusher don’t you think Capers would have given him more opportunities to do so, given how important pressure on the QB is, and that it would take attention away from Matthews? I KNOW I DO… So my conclusion is that Jones wasn’t getting any kind of consistent pressure, so they decided to use him in another way. That was coverage.
Again, if he somehow start making impact plays I’ll gladly be 1st to admit I was wrong about him.
My impression is that all you guys have such high hopes for him becuz you know the Packers NEED him to be impactful to take the next step. I’m looking for IMPACT plays from him, thats what we need from him. Last year he had virtually NONE…
Who gives him a “luvfest” though? No one is saying he’s going to turn into Clay this year or something. Simply that he appears to have improved, and may turn out to be a good player. That’s it.
And I agree Matthews got consistent pressure but it still doesn’t change the fact that he had a few coverage sacks last season.
Two of his bull rushes pushed his guy back 2-3 steps, and caused the Qb to move. Too me, that’s an effective bull rush and was what Jones did. He also had two nice plays against the run, in which he forced the Rb to the outside where he was gang tackled both times. So no, he didn’t have the tackle but he was the primary reason for the two nice stops.
As the year went on Jones did seem to get more opportunities to rush, which is why I’ve been adamant about him having some good potential to become a solid pass rusher. Of course I didn’t keep count or anything but I remember him rushing much more against the Steelers, Seahawks, and Cardinals then he did in his first couple of games against the Cowboys and 49ers. Too me, that means he either showed some ability as a pass rusher or he became more comfortable with the scheme.
My impression is that all you guys have such high hopes for him becuz you know the Packers NEED him to be impactful to take the next step.
I can’t speak for everybody else but I don’t necessarily have “high hopes” for him, or at least not the way I think your implying some do. I don’t think he’ll turn into an great pass rusher like I think Matthews will but I do think he could provide a solid pass rush. (7-9 sacks a year) And on top of that, I think he can also be good against both the pass and run. Basically, I think he could become a very nice compliment to Clay.
by packallday555 on Aug 20, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t remember Jones ever rushing vs AZ… We’ll see about his perfomance this week. I was watching the DL more than I was the LB vs Cleve. so I’ll withhold unitl I see more of him.
All I know is that the Packers need him to be a playmaker.. 34 OLB is THE primary playmaking positon in the front 7. Matthews is gonna be very good to great, but if Jones is ordinary it won’t help Matthews or the Packers reach the next level! He got 4 sacks in 8 games w/o really creating the rush, but by falling into them, following that the should get 7-9 w/o being particularly impactful.
IMO, he needs a minimum of 10 sacks or its time to find someone who will get consistent pressure on the QB, not coverage sacks.
you said… “Two of his bull rushes pushed his guy back 2-3 steps, and caused the Qb to move”… I think your making that up to make Jones sound better, otherwise he should have gotten credit for a pressure. We’ll see, the next couple games will show alot!
you said… "Two of his bull rushes pushed his guy back 2-3 steps, and caused the Qb to move"… I think your making that up to make Jones sound better, otherwise he should have gotten credit for a pressure. We’ll see, the next couple games will show alot!
I promise I’m not. Both happened sometime in the 3rd quarter.
by packallday555 on Aug 21, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
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