The Job of Holder, a Chicken or Egg Question

by PackApologist on Aug 2, 2010 11:31 PM CDT

The Packers seem to have a few whipping boys they like to keep around. These are the guys who are blamed for so many of the team's woes. We know who these usual suspects are: Jarret Bush, Daryn Colledge, AJ Hawk, etc. Mason Crosby seems to be fast approaching that list. His accuracy seems to drop with each year and he may of lost us a few key games of the past couple years. Despite this Mike McCarthy has stood by his man, even though public sentiment may be turning against Crosby.

Through all of this Mike Vandermause of the Green Bay Press Gazette raises a really interesting question: is Crosby's problem the kicker or the holder? Any sports fan should know the importance of a holder, well that and laces out, but is having an incons istency at holder causing Crosby problems? Should the Packers look for a permanent solution to the holder position?

Right now the position of the holder is being fought for by the same guys bringing you our current mess of the punting game, Chris Bryant and Tim Mathasy. Both are inexperienced. One, or both, won't make the team so it's doubtful that a great re pore will be formed with Crosby through camp. It seems to a shaky situation at first glance.

Another solution could be Matt Flynn. He's held for kicks before, so he knows that's laces out at least. The Packers could also do some pretty nifty fake kicks. It's also pretty sure that Flynn would make the team so Crosby could actually get used to the guy that would be making the holds through out the year instead of getting comfortable with one guy just to see the guy he didn't like make the team.

It seems that McCarthy doesn't like that solution though. He would rather a punter do the job. After all, then Flynn can run the scout team and the kickers can go off in the corner and do whatever is they do there.

So what do you all think? Should we just shoehorn a punter to the job? Should we take time out of Flynn's schedule to hold? Does it even matter and just say Crosby is a lost cause? Or maybe we should just hope that Rodgers throws so many TD passes that the kicking game is just icing on the cake?

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Is the holder the scapegoat?

I’ve read that there’s been a problem with the holder over the past couple training camps. I see the whole problem as going back to the coaches. This is one of the little things that shouldn’t be a problem for professional players, but there always seem to be all sorts of problems with the special teams. That’s a little unfair since the coaches aren’t the ones on the field, but special teams is such a matter of fundamentals (there’s no cat-and-mouse game to line up for a FG) that the top dog has to shoulder the blame for not getting his players prepared with the basics.

by Brandon on Aug 3, 2010 12:09 AM CDT reply actions

Your exactly right. It really does point to the coaches. There is no valid reason for our special teams unit in general to be as bad as they have the past few seasons. And we really haven’t improved any of our special teams problems these past few seasons, which is somewhat ridiculous. The players we’re putting out there can’t really be that bad can they?

If the unit doesn’t look better this season we’ve got to get rid of the special teams coach. Four straight years of having a bottom five special teams unit in the league ought to be enough right?

by packallday555 on Aug 3, 2010 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions

I would really only blame the coaches insofar as not taking care of this quickly. Kickers are like golfers, there are some athletics involved in what they do but really mostly the process is a mental game dictated by feel. This does have kickers come across as divas, everything needs to be perfect, but it’s there to allow them to have the little things worked out ahead of time.

Since that’s the case I don’t see why MM is playing musical chairs with it. Just designate a guy to work with Crosby and take the punters out of it. Then let Crosby develop confidence with the new holder so he’s ready to go for this year.

Actually I think this is another perfect example of how the coaching staff only gives lip service to the special teams area while really favoring the other two parts of the game. So yeah, if this blows up I’m much more inclined to blame MM than Crosby.

by PackApologist on Aug 3, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions

Longwell

was VERY particular about his holder. He went so far as to blame the holder immediately after the game for kicks that he missed. Crosby, at least initially, said it doesn’t really matter. I guess I’m going to split that baby and say that until Crosby says it’s the holder, then it’s him. Is he saying that? I honestly don’t know.

by gern blanston on Aug 3, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions

To his credit, Crosby has not blame anyone else for his misses. Unlike Longwell who became a problem for not taking any blame on himself! Longwell alienated his teammates w/ his excuses!! Which likely hastened his departure from GB…

by Strohman on Aug 3, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions

Wow

I didn’t know that about Longwell.

At least Crosby is being a team player about it. To Longwell’s advantage, he had Doug Pederson to hold for him for several years. Having one holder over a long period of time instead of changing the holder every other year is definately a good idea.

The question is who can be that man? Flynn could be the man, which means we would have a backup QB that knows our system for a very long time. That does work to our offense’s advantage as well.

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Aug 3, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions

kickers and punters

this is my feelings about those non-football players.

it’s sad that the real football players bust their butts for 59 minutes, just so that a “guy” with a single bar on his helmut can skip across a field and determine a game. these people don’t even do sprints at practice with the rest of the real players. at practice the punter and kicker are by themselves practicing ball tricks with the football.

solution——-have the nfl institute a rule of either it’s a td drive or you give the ball back to your opponent. you receive the kick-off, than, just like normal you have 4 downs to get a first down to continue the drive or if you fail at any time to get the first down you hand the ball to the opposing team. this will eliminate all the punters and kickers in the league. this will ensure that the real football players decide the game not some ex soccer star.

just my opinion—-i am hermitcrab——and i dislike all kickers.

by hermitcrab on Aug 3, 2010 2:45 AM CDT reply actions

just my opinion—-i am hermitcrab——and i dislike all kickers.

LOL!

by packallday555 on Aug 3, 2010 4:50 AM CDT up reply actions

LOL!

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Aug 3, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions

qb holder

harrell is on the roster put him to work, you have to have the option of faking a field goal and a punter is not going to help you. Never should have cut jon ryan for frost and kapinos. How many crappy punters did we have after Hentrich, too many.

by Matthew Grassinger on Aug 3, 2010 3:02 AM CDT reply actions

roster limitations

the problem with that solution is that all NFL teams have to sit 5 players for some stupid reason each week. I’ve never understood that rule. They’re on the team. Let ’em play.

There’s some weird exception for a third string QB. But bottom line is that if Harrell is holder, he takes the game day spot of someone else.

Crab – sorry to disagree with you, I’m not a fan of kickers, either, but it does add another element of excitment to the game. You get spoiled with a good kicker thinking it’s an easy 3 points. No question we’d have won a few more games in 08 if Crosby was more consistent.

by gern blanston on Aug 3, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

why dont they just put somebody with some hands back there? like the 5th WR?

by SpaceGhost34 on Aug 3, 2010 3:13 AM CDT reply actions

Hands

What makes you think Punters don’t have hands and very good ones? WR are allowed to drop an occasional pass, but punters are NEVER allowed to drop a snap!!!

by Strohman on Aug 3, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions

they're not going to get creamed

Punters and place holders know they have a second to catch the ball before they do something with it. WR, TE, and RB don’t have that luxury. I’m not saying that they do or don’t have good hands, I’m saying the situation under which they do it is not nearly as potentially problematic as say Daryl Stingley experienced.

by gern blanston on Aug 3, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions

I get that, but at the same time punters are basically not allowed to drop a snap! If they do they have to worry about losing their job… Thats pressure of another kind!

by Strohman on Aug 3, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions

...Punters dont have hands...

They get the ball snapped right at their numbers, standing still, with hardly any pressure while trying to catch it…Sorry…Not buying that argument…And, take a look at every time a punt goes high or to the side…Hardly do they one hand it in to get it off the right foot…Thats like commending a QB for catching a shotgun snap…Punters dont have hands, WR do…thats why they arent punters…

by SpaceGhost34 on Aug 3, 2010 7:42 PM CDT reply actions