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Why This Season Will Be Won Or Lost In The Trenches

"Some people try to find things in this game that don't exist but football is only two things - blocking and tackling."
--Vince Lombardi

Consider this: in the Packers 6 losses last season, they were out-sacked by 24, for a differential of -111 sack yards. In only one of those games - against Pittsburgh - did they win the sack battle. In their 11 wins, they out-sacked their opponents by 5 for a differential of +20 sack yards. After Mark Tauscher began starting again at tackle, and the offensive line finally had some stability, the Packers only lost one game for the last 8 weeks of the season, and only lost the sack battle one time, 1-0 in a meaningless game against Arizona in Week 17.

Pretty interesting, no?

Simply put, the offensive success depends on keeping pressure off Aaron Rodgers, and the defensive success in Dom Capers' scheme relies on putting pressure on the quarterback.

That is why the trenches will be so important this season.

Star-divide

I really believe that the offensive line has finally got it sorted out. They showed, at least as a first unit, in the preseason that they have formed a cohesive and formidable part of the team. It was one of the things I was really hoping to see this August, and it made me enormously happy to see that Aaron Rodgers didn't get sacked once in the preseason. This year they are basically returning the same starting offensive line, and they have added some quality depth with 1st round draft pick Bryan Bulaga. "Super sub" Jason Spitz also returns, and while some of their other guys may be relatively inconsistent, they almost all have game experience and are solid reserve players. This is all peachy, but the line has to stay consistent into the season, when defenses will actually start scheming, showing different looks, and disguising blitzes. The offense showed it can put up points even when Rodgers was hurried last year, but clearly the Packers offense was at its very best when Rodgers has time to pick apart the defense, and Grant has lanes to run.

Last year Rodgers was sacked 50 times, but only 14 times in the last 8 games of the regular season with essentially the same offensive line that will be lining up in front of him this year. Project that out for an entire season and you get 28 sacks total. Compare that to the 40 times that Favre was sacked in the 1996 Super Bowl year, the 25 times Favre was sacked in the 1997 NFC Championship year, and the 15 times Favre was sacked in 2007. If the offensive line maintains its level of performance from the end of last season - they will be more on par with sack rates in the most successful seasons in recent Packer memory.

Football Outsiders advanced stats from 2009 show that the Packers were a good run blocking team, but they were 3rd to last in the league in adjusted sack rate, bearing out what most Packers fans already knew. This team struggled with keeping Aaron Rodgers on his feet at times last season, particularly early on.

The offensive line does not need to be exceptional. Aaron Rodgers continues to develop in his 6th NFL season, and has become adept at recognizing blitzes, coverages, and improving a quick release in the passing game. Audibles to quick slants and short hitch routes have gotten him out of trouble on blitzing downs on numerous occasions. This, combined with the solidifying offensive line, should combine to produce good offensive results this year.

Perhaps more importantly is the development of the defensive line, and the pass rush overall - which in the 3-4 defense incorporates the outside linebackers on a regular basis. The scheme will be part of the pass rush's effectiveness, as evidenced by the fact that a healthy 20.2% of quarterback hits registered last year were by middle linebackers or defensive backs. Capers loves to blitz from many different directions and with a number of different combinations.

However, I think that the absence of two players will prove critical. No, I'm not talking about Atari Bigby and Al Harris. I'm talking about Aaron Kampman and Johnny Jolly. Both Kampman and Jolly had great seasons last year - Kampman when he was healthy - and I think that both will be missed more than people think. Advanced NFL Stats says that Kampman and Jolly combined added about 5.78 points per game, and were the 3rd and 8th most valuable players on defense by that particular yardstick.

The Packers did nothing at all to replace the departed Kampman, and decided to essentially stick with the players they had. Brad Jones was slotted to be the replacement, but compare the two. Kampman had 16 quarterback hits and 4 sacks in 9 games, while Brad Jones had exactly half that production in 12 games. Or, put another way, Jones was only producing hits and sacks at about 37% of the per-game rate that Kampman was. Even though that sounds awful, the other options are even worse. Chillar was producing at about 22% of the per-game rate as Kampman, and Poppinga at only about 4.9%.

Quite simply, the Packers only have one pass rushing linebacker with proven NFL experience, and that is Clay Matthews, a second year player. If I have one gripe about the offseason that Ted Thompson put together, it's that he didn't make a push in free agency to sign a pass rusher, or to make a trade for one. Now the Packers are sitting with a ton of talent at tight end, and at other positions, that they could have used as trade bait to at least bring in a serviceable pass rusher. Who knows, Jones has put on weight in the offseason, and perhaps with a whole training camp focused on being a 3-4 OLB, he will blossom into the role.

Why does this worry me? Because in games where the Packers were unable to generate much of a pass rush (such as the playoff game in Arizona, or both games against the Vikings), the quarterback can just stand back and pick the defense apart. I think that who winds up playing the nickel and dime back may ultimately wind up being inconsequential. What is of the utmost importance is to get to the quarterback, and protect our quarterback, and that all starts with the big men up front.

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Of course games are won and lost in the trenches!

The loss of Aaron Kampman hurts our Nickel/Dime Packages, but nothing more. Jolly was never a pass rusher. He had a good year last year in batting down passes, but that’s it. No telling whether he would be able to do it again.

I think on the defensive side, it’s a matter of everyone being assignment sure and doing their job. That’s common sense though. The defensive linemen are responsible for occupying blockers and collapsing the pocket, but not necessarily getting sacks. That’s just an added bonus. Mike Neal was brought in to help this, and he is a potential replacement for Cullen Jenkins if Jenkins leaves after this season. If Jenkins stays, that will be even better yet! The LB’s and CB’s just need to get to the QB quickly when called upon. Given Sam Shields speed, I think we could be getting another pass rusher out of him on CB blitzes. That will allow us to keep Woodson in coverage. It all depends upon if the DE’s do their job to allow the CB to get to the QB though.

As for the OL….duh! If you don’t keep your QB on his feet and healthy, you won’t win games!

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Sep 3, 2010 8:52 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree that it's kind of an obvious statement to say that games are won and lost in the trenches

My point here is that I think that while our O-line has really improved, our defensive line and pass rush remains extremely vulnerable. And I just don’t see it all being rainbows and roses. I honestly think that the Packers are going to be impacted by the loss of Kampman more than most people think. The fact of the matter is, if Matthews is our only bona fide pass rusher, it will be pretty easy for teams to roll protections to his side of the field. And, Matthews isn’t even healthy at the moment, so who knows how he’ll come back from a balky hamstring.

All I’m saying is, if our pass rush sucks at mid-season, a lot of people are going to be wondering why Ted didn’t go grab a pass rusher via free agency or trade.

As for Jolly, I would argue that he was our best defensive lineman last season. It’s difficult to just replace a quality player like that. I know that in a 3-4 scheme, the defensive lineman have a much less glamorous role, but I think that Pickett is ideally suited to the nose tackle, and that he’ll be a bit of a downgrade at the end position from what Jolly was providing last year.

Add to that the fact that Matthews, our one proven pass rusher, hasn’t had many reps at all in training camp or preseason now, they just flipped him from one side of the defense to the other, and the 1st team defense really has yet to play as a unit yet. And the first game is coming up quickly.

Don’t get me wrong, I think our offense is awesome, and I think our defense is good enough even with injuries to put us in a position to win most games. But, as was the case against the Steelers and Cardinals last year, I think we’ll run up against some teams with a solid veteran line and then we’ll have problems…

…unless something drastic changes in the next 8 days.

"But we all know that games aren't played on paper...they are played by little men inside our TV sets." --Kenny Mayne

by dishingoutdimes on Sep 3, 2010 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

The loss of AK hurts our Nickel/Dime because he would be our pass rusher on the opposite side of Clay. However, he was playing out of position and is coming off an ACL tear. We still made an offer, but he wanted to return to the DE role in the 4-3.

Yes, with Mathews currently hurt that does have an impact. Keep in mind though that the 3-4 is not about 1 pass rusher, it’s about numerous. Dom Capers loves blitzing his ILB’s more than his OLB’s, and I have noticed an increase in CB blitzes too. Picture Shields doing this, who could be the fastest player on our roster!

While I agree that Pickett is a true NT and is playing out of position, it’s not fair to say he won’t manage to do well. While Jolly was good at keeping his eyes on the QB and batting down passes, Pickett is bigger, stronger, better against the run, and won’t be pushed around. There’s no way of telling whether Jolly would be able to do that again, in batting down passes. If the passes aren’t in his direction, then he aint doing much for us anymore. Jolly was decent against the run though, but was a weak link in our Nickel/Dime. If he couldn’t get into the backfield, why is he in on passing downs? But I guess it’s all his batted passes. Last year’s 2 defensive linemen in the Nickel/Dime Packages were Cullen Jenkins and Johnny Jolly on most downs. This year we have Cullen Jenkins, BJ Raji, and Mike Neal in a rotation. You must admit Neal is looking sharp as a pass rusher right now! He’s also not getting pushed around.

Sure, we have a concern with our D. However, we did what we could to improve. There weren’t any CB’s that we could bring in via Free Agency, the draft board didn’t work in our favor to draft a CB, and if you can’t get a good deal trading, then you simply don’t do it!

I think our pass rush will be better overall, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a drop in sacks from Mathews at the same time. With Mathews going to LOLB (which I don’t approve), he’s going from being chipped a few times to every time! On top of that, he needs to overcome his biggest flaw of not getting tied up in blockers, which he’s going to have more of. This might hurt our Run D. On the contrary though, him being on the left side should help our pass rush being on the opposite side of Jenkins. Zombo is also showing the capability of being a starting OLB, but based on his Preseason performance, I thought he stood out more as a LOLB as opposed to the ROLB. We may struggle in the first month, but I have a feeling adjustments will be made and our OLB’s will be properly placed.

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Sep 4, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Shields blitzed a couple of times against the Chiefs and didn't get a sniff.

Speed doesn’t matter in blitzing if you don’t have a feel for the timing and if you don’t have the leverage to lean into the guy blocking you and maintain your angle to the QB.

I don’t blame TT for losing Kampman. He wasn’t going to stay no matter how much they offered him. Kampman’s time in GB was over when we switched to the 3-4. Even if he was happy here, and he wasn’t anymore, he didn’t fit the system and everyone knew it. The fact that he found a way to be valuable in spite of his discomfort demonstrates his quality as a player and a person, but it didn’t mean he would rather play in a 3-4 than a 4-3.

I don’t see how our pass rush can be better if Matthews numbers drop. The only way that appears to be possible is if Jones takes a huge step forward, which is hard to predict given how much time he’s missed. Capers can blitz all he wants and it might even work at times, but outside of Woodson and Collins, the other 3 or 4 DB’s on the field at any given moment will get torched if there’s a ton of blitzing. They just aren’t good enough to hold up. Which is why it makes so much sense to me to try to get better at those positions right now instead of simply hoping the light goes on for Lee and Bush and watching the defense flounder the first month of the season before you try to do something about it. Just like the OL last year…

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Sep 4, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

2 things in regards to Shields blitzes: the first, he will gain experience the more he does it, just as he’ll gain experience in coverage. The benefit of the CB blitzing is the fact that it comes from no where and it happens so fast, just as long as it is not overused. 2nd, it was KC’s play calling. Notice how nobody got to the QB. That was because KC frequently does quick dump off passes and relies on its WR’s and RB’s to get YAC. I thought the ILB’s struggled with their coverages in that game more than anyone else on defense.

I can see how I led to that impression. Blitzing from the left side is different from the right. That’s why most RE’s get sacks, while LE’s don’t. It’s because when the LE does get to the QB, the QB normally sees it and gets rid of it quicker. So Mathews may not get as many sacks, but he may still get the pressure on the QB, just forcing the QB to throw sooner than he would like, which hopefully leads to more interceptions. Just look at all the great DE’s in history and in present day. How many of them are LE’s compared to RE’s? This is really what made Kampman so special, even more so for Reggie White. For starters, they are on the strong side of the OL, second, the QB has a better chance of seeing you and knows he should get rid of it quicker. This will apply to Clay Matthews.

I can’t argue that. We do need help with CB’s, but where are we going to get it. Hopefully Shields continues to develop as a CB and Williams gets out of his funk. If that much is done, then great! The question is, who can we get at this point that can help us with the CB position? Who is willing to part ways with their current CB? What are their demands? Is it worth it? I only like trades if we get the better end of the deal!

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Sep 4, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Normally I'd agree with you....

… but this team has the chance to do something special. They did last year too. But if they come out of the box slow while they wait for some of the kids to figure it out, they’ll end up having to win on the road in the playoffs, again, and that diminishes the chances of them fulfilling their potential even if the kids figure it out. I like Thompson. But this was an offseason to be aggressive about filling the holes that existed on defense, and he did very little in that regard.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Sep 4, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Steelers and Cards

Didn’t beat the Packers cuz their OL were solid or veteran! Pitts OL was almost as bad as the Packers last year! And AZ OL is nothing to write home about either!

AZ and Pitts beat the Packers cuz they knew Capers, his scheme and his tendencies inside and out!!! Capers came from Pitts and helped develop the defenses both teams now use, so Pitts had a HUGE advantage in a very important aspect… Game planning! Same w/ AZ who’s head coach is WHisenhunt who was the OC in Pitts for a LONG time and also knew Capers and his schemes EXTREMELY well. They took advantage of that advantage to the fullest!!! They also took advantage of the Packers being new to the 34 D and used it to create confusion in coverages. The Packers didn’t communicate well enough, due to being in the 1st season of a defense that relies heavily on communication!

Both teams used those advantages to beat the Packers FAR more then anything having to do w/ offensive line play!!! In actuality the Packers OL is/was much better than either of those OL!

by Strohman on Sep 4, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

If all it took in the NFL

was to know the other team’s scheme, then a lot of teams would be in trouble. The Packers had been executing the 3-4 for weeks and based on their performance in other games, they were becoming quite adept at it. The reason the Packers defense was so successful last season is because Capers is unpredictable. He disguises his blitzes very well, and other coaches admit that.

I agree that the offense was not the problem at the end of the season for us. In fact, I said as much in the above article. But how many times did we pressure Warner in that playoff game? And how much of that do you want to credit to Whisenhunt outsmarting us, and how much do you want to credit to a lack of execution by us, and a lot of execution by the Arizona offensive line. I think that a lot of that was because of the performance by the players.

Our pass rush, or lack thereof, still scares me. You could see the warning signs in the preseason against the 1st units of the Browns and Seahawks. Of course others are entitled to different opinions. I’m just worried about our young DBs getting picked apart this year, mainly because the other QB has all day to throw.

"But we all know that games aren't played on paper...they are played by little men inside our TV sets." --Kenny Mayne

by dishingoutdimes on Sep 4, 2010 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Strohman

I will agree to disagree :-) I would LOVE to be proved wrong and see our pass rush terrorize the other QB, and I will give you your props for calling it.

I will note that Arizona was ranked 7th in adjusted sack rate by Football Outsiders last season – so clearly their pass protection was pretty good. It’s not like Warner was really mobile to skew those stats.

"But we all know that games aren't played on paper...they are played by little men inside our TV sets." --Kenny Mayne

by dishingoutdimes on Sep 4, 2010 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Warner

But Warner was extremely adept at reading Defenses and getting rid of the ball. Similar to #4. They make their OL look alot better than they really are.

Im worried about our pass rush more than most. I see at as a bigger need than CB! I wanted Jerry Hughes in the 1st rd, at least until Bulaga fell in our laps! Pass rush is going to be a key to the season… Hope Capers has some things figured out in that regard!

by Strohman on Sep 4, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth:
I wanted Jerry Hughes in the 1st rd, at least until Bulaga fell in our laps!

I wanted Hughes too.

"But we all know that games aren't played on paper...they are played by little men inside our TV sets." --Kenny Mayne

by dishingoutdimes on Sep 4, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

On that note

The Bengals had a similar comment which went because they face 3 other 3-4s in their division that pack was like deja vu all over again.

by tkiller314 on Sep 5, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great post, dishing

I don’t think there’s any question that you’re right. We have no reason to expect that the d-line, outside of Jenkins, will ever generate any pressure. Raji might be a guy who can do it, but the fact is that we haven’t seen him be an impact player yet. Again, not sayin’ he won’t; just sayin’ he never has. So we certainly can’t automatically expect that he’ll be able to do it all of a sudden. And what happens if Jenkins gets hurt, which, given his history, is not, like, out of the question? Suddenly we’re counting on a rookie to be “the guy”? To say that maybe they’ll be able to all step up and get it done begs the question. There is a lot of uncertainty with our d-line.

And the linebackers, like you said, are nothing special when it comes to pass-rush. …or, really, if we’re being honest, they’re nothing special in coverage either. We’ll be able to stop the run. So we’re good there. But when it comes to the pass… We weren’t very solid in this aspect last year and there’s no reason to expect that we’ll be any better this year.

The is a realistic hope, though. You had a cliche “games are won and lost in the trenches”… There’s no arguing with that, and you’re right. But I’ve got another cliche for you which is just as powerful: “the best defense is a good offense.” If our offense can get a lead, that’ll make everyone’s life easier in coverage and from a pass-rush standpoint. The guys’ll be able to pin their ears back and concentrate on going after the QB.

Will that be enough? We’ll find out. But there’s reason for optimism, I’d say.

by Curly Lambeau on Sep 4, 2010 12:57 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree with the lead theory

I say the season rests on

I think our defense is good enough, I’m confident it will be better and the best offense is going to score on any defense. If our defense was a hair better we would have won those games everyone points to, Arizona, Pittsburg. Our offense is going to be much better, hard to believe but i do think much better, If our Oline was as stable as it is now I’d like to replay those Viking games. The results will be different this year.

I’ll agree our defense is not going to be the 85 Bears but they will be better than last year and that will be enough. Once Bigby gets back he may not even be able to regain his position back. So in my mind the safety position is better than last year. If Brad Jones regains his OLB position it should be safe to assume he’ll be better was a rookie, put the necessary weight on.
Matthews for as good as he was still was a rookie and should improve IMO. Our situation at corner certainly didn’t get worse than at the end of the season. Underwoods experience, the emergence of Shields, Harris coming back at some point will put us in a better position than we were last season.

As far as the loss of Kampman I don’t know where you gotyou stats but Kampman(loved the guy) but he looked lost in our defense I thought our defense was much better after Jones was thrust into the starting role. I liked Jolly but this Neal IMO is looking like a steal. I watched for him in the preseason games and he progressed steadily. Right now he’s getting the push Jolly never had and combined with BJ I feel were going to get that pocket to collapse as Ted has envisioned leading to sacks or interceptions.

I know it sounds like a broken record but the 2nd year in Capers defense should be huge. He has packages that weren’t used last year. Our defense may not totally dominate the best offenses but combined with our offense I’d like to see the team out their that’s better

by the yooper on Sep 4, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

My take w/o reading the post...

SInce games are won/lost in the trenches, it stands to reason that seasons are won/lost their!!! Nothing more need be said!!!

by Strohman on Sep 4, 2010 1:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Oh no, there's something more that needs to be said,

Stop. Saying. Stuff.

Seriously, take a break.

Particularly when you can’t even show the poster the modicum of respect it takes to actually read his opinion prior to dismissing it.

by 400metres on Sep 6, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Went back and read it later...

So you can stick it…

And really that is all that needed to be said. If games are won or lost in the trenches then seasons are dependent on it too!

by Strohman on Sep 6, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

meh…its also a huge cliche too. Its won or lost on so many facets. They started that saying to get some attention on those big fatties in the middle of the field but the reality is that its won in the trenches, in the air, in the backfield, etc.

I agree with 400 though, it seems like you just commented just to comment.

by TrevorR on Sep 7, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously

Take a look at last years Packers! First half season 4-4 w/ an OL that wasn’t protecting Rodgers at all… 39? sacks in first 8 games! Last half season 7-1 and only 13 sacks allowed. THink that didn’t play a huge role in how the season went? Comon man… You know better and I would think last years Packers is about as clear an indication as anyone would need!!!

by Strohman on Sep 7, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually I'm happy because

I was hoping my post would spark some lengthy discussion which it did :-)

I really hope that Jabooty’s optimism pans out. I am really rooting hard for guys like Raji, Neal, Jones, Shields and Burnett. I hope that it all works out and they just instantly jell when they all hit the field together.

Maybe I’m just being a pessimist, but I’d say about 99.5% of the time in situations like this, it takes awhile for everyone to get used to each other and develop a chemistry. Plus I look at Pickett as a downgrade from Jolly (not a downgrade at DT, but at DE), Jones as a downgrade from Kampman, Shields as a downgrade from Tramon, and Burnett as a downgrade from Bigby. Burnett is a rookie and until he takes better angles tackling, I’ll go with the experienced Bigby.

I don’t think you downgrade 4 positions on defense and improve. I think we’ll be in some high scoring games and the pressure will be on the offense to produce. I guess we’ll find out if Aaron Rodgers is MVP material. Our problem games will continue to be against those teams that are good on defense and have a solid offensive line. Look at the number of games we have against teams that ranked in the top ten of the Football Outsiders rankings on defense:

@PHI, BUF, WAS, @NYJ, SF, plus we open with two of those, and I would argue that the Dallas and Minnesota defenses are both pretty solid.

"But we all know that games aren't played on paper...they are played by little men inside our TV sets." --Kenny Mayne

by dishingoutdimes on Sep 4, 2010 3:06 PM CDT reply actions  

The hope of Neal

I know Jabooty covered this point well, but I do want to highlight this guy. As camp went on this guy looked more and more like a beast. He’s got the power and the more quick moves he can pick up the better he’s going to become.

I also am becoming a fan of the 2-4-5 looks of Raji and Neal down with nice cadre of LB"s back there to get confusion.

I will admit to being a homer on this one. Really the Pack have showed me nothing to justify any of these dreams other than some really big dudes. I also have to admit that other teams have big dudes as well to stop them. It will just be nice to see some interior pass rush to try and push the pocket and allow some of the LB’s and DB’s to get pressure from the outside.

by PackApologist on Sep 5, 2010 11:58 PM CDT reply actions  

He was the one player

Neal was the one player I thought that you could see getting better each week. He stood up the blocker and rode him into the pocket several times. Look around the league the last couple years at all the top 20 DL flops. Rookie defensive lineman usually take a couple years to make a impact but it sure looks like he’ll help right away. Looks like Ted really knew what he was doing as some analysts thought he was drafted to high. Could be a 2nd round steal.

by the yooper on Sep 6, 2010 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

He held up against the run and provided some good pass on most passing downs, and did so against the Colts and Chiefs starters. He looks plenty capable of contributing this season.

by packallday555 on Sep 6, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Neal

He’s definately improving on a weekly basis. I think TT’s intentions of drafting him was in an effort to keep stability on the line next year if Cullen Jenkins leaves as well as providing DL depth this year. Neal fascinates me in 2 ways: his quick and sudden burst off the line and his tremendous strength. I’ve seen him burst off the edge like speed demon while performing a speed rush and i’ve also seen him bull rush the OT right into the QB (which you might recall against Indy in Preseason).

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Sep 6, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget the fact that the Packers probably knew that Jolly was going to be suspended well before the draft occurred.

I’m sure that played a role in the decision to look at DL early on.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Sep 6, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's true

Who knows if we would have drafted Neal or not had Jolly not had the offseason issues. They are 2 very different players though. So in light of losing Jolly, this could be a more beneficial thing in the long run given we got Neal in the process.

Some scouts said Neal was a 3rd Round. Other scouts said he was a hidden gem and would be of great value in the 2nd Round. I think we know what we got out of him! Hopefully his Preseason performances transition well into the Regular Season though.

"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi

by Jabooty on Sep 7, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think we still would have taken him. Pickett is getting older, and while Jolly is good against the run, he’s a poor pass rusher. I think really the only ideal 3-4 defensive end we had last season was Jenkins. Neal seems to be more of an ideal 3-4 defensive end in my opinion too. He’s big enough, and strong enough to hold his gap and on top of that can get penetration in passing situations.

by packallday555 on Sep 7, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jolly's got me torn.

If they cut him loose before next year, I’ll be happy with that. If they don’t and he comes back, I’d be happy with that too, assuming that it means he’s demonstrated overt he course of this year that he’s cleaned himself up a bit.

The one thing I don’t want to have happen is for him to stumble through whatever supervision program they’ve got him, fall over the finish line so that he avoids incarceration, and come back with the same messed up, codeine addled lifestyle he had before. I don’t want this team to turn into the Packers of the mid-80’s with a bunch of thugs playing prominent roles.

BCB free since 8/24/10 and happier for it.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Sep 7, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Totally agree. I think it’d be great to have Jolly back. With him, we’d have excellent depth at the position. But like you, I don’t want him back if he’s still off doing whatever down in Houston with his boys.

by packallday555 on Sep 7, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Welcome back Jolly

The Packers of today have far too much integrity at the top of the organization for that too happen. From McCarthy to Thompson to Murphy, I don’t see anyway they bring Jolly back unless they are convinced he has been in 100% compliance with the program he’s on… Both in the courts and the NFL. That being said, bringing him back is a pretty easy decision… ANd I think he will be back!

by Strohman on Sep 7, 2010 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

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When And Why
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Where were you?
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How about a little love for Cobb!!!
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MVP baby!
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NFL could add two new teams
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Nike taking over Jerseys
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Free Agency Opinions
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NFL needs to fix its playoff system...

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Manager

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Author

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