Help on Packers' Roster

by LovinBlue on Jan 17, 2011 11:09 PM CST

First off - Go Pack Go! While I'm a Colts fan by day, I'm a Cal alumna and HUGE fan of Aaron Rodgers... so I'm definitely rooting for the Pack to take the big prize this year!

Now to the help I'm looking for. I know you are all painfully aware of the injuries suffered by the Packers this year, and the unnaturally large IR list. You probably also heard about the similar fate suffered by the Colts,

with the obvious exception being that the Packers have played very well and remained in the playoffs.

I'm interested in understanding the depth of the injuries in terms of how many starters, #2s, etc., the Pack lost. From my understanding, I believe that Chillar, Finley, Grant and Tauscher were considered #1 starters.

First, is that correct?

Second, where would you place the other IR'd players on the depth chart?

I believe they are:
Barnett
Bell
Burnett
Harrell
Havner
Jones
Martin
Neal
Newhouse
Poppinga
Smith, A.

Thanks in advance!

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Comments

Barnett LB and Burnett SS were bother starters. However given the play of Hawk and Bishop at LB, I think we got better.

by NoahZ on Jan 17, 2011 11:44 PM CST reply actions

You forgot Peprah

That dude has held down the starting spot and stepped up for Burnett.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 12:03 AM CST up reply actions

Neal is a rookie who was coming on strong after a couple games.. #2 DT

by Chief Oshkosh on Jan 17, 2011 11:45 PM CST reply actions

Chillar wasn't a starter, but...

He was our primary LB in nickel package, which we used 60-70 percent of the time — which almost like being a starter.

Nick Barnett was a starter at LB. As was Morgan Burnett, at safety. Brad Jones was our starting Left outside linebacker. The other starter I would “kind of” include is Al Harris, who would have been a starter if he hadn’t been injured (or the nickel corner, which like I said, we play a lot).

But when Al Harris healed, we cut him because of the emergence of Sam Shields as our nickel cornercorner.

So by my count that’s 7 starters, with an asterisk by Chillar as possible 8th because he would play “starters minutes” given our frequent use of the nickel package.

As for backups, Mike Neal was a big loss — a Rookie DE was looking real good and what have had a prominent role. Brady Poppinga was our main backup OLB.

But an important final word on our injuries: They greatly impacted our special teams. Havner was an absolute beast on special. Derrick Martin was also a great special teams player. Also Chillar was oustanding on special teams as well.

by PackFaninFL on Jan 17, 2011 11:46 PM CST reply actions

to clarify,

Starters would be Finley, Grant, Tauscher, Brad Jones, Nick Barnett, Morgan Burnett, and Al Harris (who is no longer on IR, he was cut) and possibly Chillar (given his big role on nickel package)

by PackFaninFL on Jan 17, 2011 11:48 PM CST up reply actions

Harris wasn’t the starter this year.
Chillar was a nickle LB, that is it. People keep thinking he was cause he started against philly but that is only cause we only played nickle against them.

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by TrevorR on Jan 18, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions

He may not been a base starter

But we have played nickle, I would guestimate 60% of the time so I would classify him as a quasistarter

by the yooper on Jan 18, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions

But many of us never even counted on him being a part of the team. I know all off season I talked about how I didn’t expect to see anything from him. I saw a major dropoff from Al last year before the injury. I think age was catching up and the injury was just going to make it impossible for him to rebound and be anything more than maybe an okay nickle. When Shields started playing as good as he did…there was no need for Al. I never considered him a starter or really a member of the 2010 squad.

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by TrevorR on Jan 19, 2011 9:35 AM CST up reply actions

I was talking about Chillar

I never thought Harris would ever start for us. I argued all offseason he would at best be our nickle back. I argued Tramon would be a solid starter. I never expected this good, though

by the yooper on Jan 19, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions

Havner

I wouldn’t go so far as to call him “an absolute beast” on special teams. Same with Martin. Our special teams weren’t good when they were out there, and it would be hard to say they’ve really gotten any worse without them.

53 Bears, 1 Cup

by I voted for Kodos on Jan 18, 2011 1:19 AM CST up reply actions

Its really an unfounded argument. Its based on players missing and not on actual results.

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by TrevorR on Jan 18, 2011 9:14 AM CST up reply actions

Havner? He didn’t even make the team after training camp. Havner barely made an impact on the team this year, He got hurt shortly after he rejoined the team.

I would argue injuries didn’t hurt our ST because the unit performed to the same level it always had. I didn’t see some crazy dropoff as any point during the year and you could almost argue it got better at the end of the year.

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by TrevorR on Jan 18, 2011 9:09 AM CST up reply actions

And most of the others are backups/special teams guys

by Chief Oshkosh on Jan 17, 2011 11:46 PM CST reply actions

Chillar

It’s really hard to define what exactly his role is on the defense. He wasn’t a starter, that’s a good place to begin. PackFanninFL described it pretty well with the “primary” distinction. Chillar was the guy who would float a bit in the defense due to his size, speed, and coverage skills. So he was the guy sent in for nickel packages, they dabbled him in at OLB, and last year when all our safeties were injured he played a little bit of safety in the Big Okie.

The defensive day one starters at LB were technically: Matthews and Jones on the outside and Barnett and Hawk on the inside. The trick is that Hawk didn’t play the first game because they spent the whole game in nickel since Reid loves him some passing. So Chillar is kinda a starter, kinda not….really not, but a core player.

by PackApologist on Jan 17, 2011 11:54 PM CST reply actions

Neal

I won’t do this for all of the players mentioned, only the ones who had kind of weird roles.

Neal was our second round draft pick this year. The plan at the beginning of the year was to rotate him in on passing downs in order to create more of an inside pass rush. The dude is freakishly strong and has some pass rushing ability. The main concept was to have the starting three be Pickett and Jenkins on the outside and Raji holding down the middle. Neal though picked up a few injuries during the preseason that lingered into the regular season and really didn’t do too much this year.

Next year it will be interesting with Raji, Neal, and PIckett locked up for a good amount of time; Green and Jenkins are at the end of their contracts, and Johnny Jolly should be back in the fold. Harrell’s contract is also up but since he doesn’t count for much this is the only mention he gets.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 12:02 AM CST reply actions

shit that will be interesting!

I’m guessing we let go of Green, I would’nt mind keeping him around though.

by Chief Oshkosh on Jan 18, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions

Still think theres a good chance Pickett is traded...

He would make a quality NT for a team and there are plenty that need them. Pickett, Green and Jolly are very similar players… If Jolly is back then we don’t need Pickett at DE and you don’t pay franchise NT money to a backup NT! Green can be good enough to spell Raji at NT. Just no point in keeping Pickett IMO! To expensive for a backup and Jolly is every bit as good a run stuffer at DE!!

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

I bet they all stay depending on the CBA

I doubt Pickett leaves really. He likes it in GB and the Packers typically stick by guys like that. If the CBA does half of what people expect it to then I think they keep all of them except the pure scrubs (Wynn and Harrell).

If there is a CBA then I think the one to be traded will be Jolly. He’s a bit cold due to his year suspension, but he will have a very affordable contract, has some good skill, and is young enough to still make a long term impact on a team.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions

I'll disagree with you on Harrell

Justin Harrell isn’t going anywhere this offseason. He’s on the last year of his contract, and he’s not a “scrub” as you said. The guy had the talent to be drafted in the first round of the NFL draft. He’s had injury issues, not talent issues. I would be beyond shocked if Harrell isn’t competing for a roster spot this preseason.

Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."

by GoGregGo on Jan 18, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions

You're right he is

Crap, I thought this was the last year of his contract, but there is one more. My main question is whether that contract balloons on the end like so many 1st round picks do or is it affordable. Really that will tell if he stays or not.

You’re right that the question isn’t talent, but the health does factor in. Right now he has used up a spot on the 53 that has been essentially wasted every year because he can’t stay healthy. Would love to see that improve, but when you look at the depth of the position, even without him, it’s tough to see him staying.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions

He's not wasting a spot on the 53 man if he's on IR

Or do you mean coming out of training camp?

Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."

by GoGregGo on Jan 18, 2011 1:53 PM CST up reply actions

Yup

That becomes a factor because nearly every player we cut this year got picked up by someone else. Now it’s all worked out in the end because we’ve been able to find guys off the street, but still…if you can keep some of the talent that should be considered when there is a guy who has barely been able to string two games together.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 2:23 PM CST up reply actions

yeah…coming out of training camp. He takes a spot from someone else who could be working with the team and making an impact on ST. Instead we release talented guys who get scooped up and we end up with a dude on IR (again) and some kid off the street who doesn’t know our system.

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by TrevorR on Jan 19, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions

Harrell

Was kept over Jarius Wynn on the DL. So he is the guy we “lost” instead of Harrell. DIdn’t cost us anything since we got Wynn back after Harrell was put on IR. ANd If I remember correctly, Harrell was injured on a ST play. Not like we were going to keep a LB and go w/ only 5 DL out of training camp!

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by Strohman on Jan 19, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions

ugh…I don’t care how much talent he has, if he can’t stay on the field his talent means nothing. how many times do we have to get kicked in the head before we get rid of the donkey???

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by TrevorR on Jan 19, 2011 9:37 AM CST up reply actions

I was in the keep Harrell camp, I've now been kicked in the head enough

by the yooper on Jan 19, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions

Will only keep 6 or 7 DL

And if Jolly returns we will already have an abundance of them. Not to mention the $ alotted to each position. I would rather we keep Jenkins than Pickett… Keep Jenkins and give him some of the money that Pickett is making!

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions

I would like to see that but I don't think that is what is going to happen

by the yooper on Jan 18, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions

I’d gladly keep Jenkins over Pickett! I like that scenario!

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by TrevorR on Jan 19, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions

I would argue Jolly will take Jenkins spot

I just don’t see Ted giving Pickett that kind of money then getting rid of him after one year in the contract. I don’t see us bringing Jenkins back, I hope we can because when healthy he’s as good as it gets for a 3-4 DE

by the yooper on Jan 18, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions

Think like this

Whats best for the Packers? Trading a backup NT or keeping a starting DE?.. Thompsons job is to do whats best for the Packers! So his best course of action is to trade an asset to keep a better asset! Trade Pickett and Re-sign Jenkins… Similar w/ Barnett and Bishop!!

I can’t say thats what will happen, but that would be my approach. And whats best for the Packers!

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions

The problem is Pickett isn't a backup NT

He does spell Raji, but really he has been holding down the DE position this year, especially on running downs. He has been doing this since the first Philly game and has continued to do so all year.

In reality, Raji doesn’t really have a backup and has been used on most of the snaps all throughout the year.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

OK but what will Pickett be NEXT year?

I think Jolly will be the starting LDE and Raji the NT… Where does that leave Pickett? ON the bech probably backing up both! That makes him a backup NT/DE… Its called looking ahead!!

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions

Personally

I would like to wait and see what Jolly looks like after spending a year out of football before penciling him in as the starting LDE. And by that point management will have had to make a decision about Pickett.

Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."

by GoGregGo on Jan 18, 2011 4:22 PM CST up reply actions

Silly questions

Stroh I’m disappointed. This is a silly question because there are too many variables to even make a guess.

Next year? There may not be a next year. We don’t know what Jolly will show up. We don’t know what kind of condition Pickett will show up in. Really this will need to be sorted out over time and training camp(if that happens).

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions

A second response to this argument

Besides, even if you are right…my question is which player will have better trade value? The back up NT who has more years behind him than ahead? Or the guy whose last year playing he was ranked as the highest ranked DL player on the team. By the way, the younger guy is hungry to make up ground (hopefully) and playing for peanuts.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 4:33 PM CST up reply actions

Trade value

I give the edge to Pickett… He’s a true 34 NT Jolly is not! That position carries alot more value than a 34 DE.

PA, yes there are alot of variables… Thats never stopped a discussion before has it? Heck we are talking draft on another thread and that doesn’t seem to bother you!

Jolly is more a true 34 DE than Pickett who is a more true NT. We have a need for a true 34 DE than we do NT, thats not the case w/ other teams who run a 34 and are missing a NT that can get it done!

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 4:40 PM CST up reply actions

I think Jolly’s time away from the league (and the reason for it) would really hurt his value on the market…at least this year. Maybe after a good season back in league it would jump back up though.

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by TrevorR on Jan 19, 2011 9:40 AM CST up reply actions

Breakdown of IR Guys...

This is the best I could do for quantifying the IR players:

Starters (6): Finley, Grant, Tauscher, Brad Jones, Barnett, Morgan Burnett

Regular/Heavy contributors (3): Chillar, Neal, Harrell (Harrell could move down a spot)

Top Backups/ST players(3): Martin, Poppinga, Havner

Deep Bench/ST players (3): Bell, Newhouse, A. Smith

Due to the tremendous depth Thompson assembled you can make a case we got better at 4 positions… Bulaga/Tauscher, Bishop/Barnett, Hawk/Chillar, Peprah/Burnett… I don’t consider Harris in the discussion cuz he was never a part of this years team!

Next year, I don’t see Bell, A. Smith, Poppinga, Harrell or Havner being on the team. There is also a good chance that Barnett is traded/released.

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 12:20 AM CST reply actions

Havner

Really Havner didn’t make the team either. He was cut as the odd man out at TE, was picked up by Detroit and then was cut basically due to injury concerns. Pack picked him up last in the year, he played one game and then went to IR.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions

Havner won’t make the team next year either. Not a chance

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by TrevorR on Jan 18, 2011 9:15 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah I know that... I called that he wouldn't make the team.

Kinda splitting hairs… Either way he was picked up and ended up being on the team for a couple games. Thats why I listed him.

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions

SS should be really interesting this off season. We went from a position of weakness to serious depth! Great problem to have!! :-) I agree with you on Harris…people like to call him a starter but he was never in the picture in 2011. Some people were counting on him but I sure wasn’t…

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by TrevorR on Jan 18, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions

D-Line may be more interesting

If the Pack keeps Green and Jenkins look at who we would have for our D-line next year:

Pickett, Raji, Green, Neal, Jenkins, Jolly, Wilson, and Wynn.

Even without Wynn that’s a pretty deep group.

by PackApologist on Jan 18, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions

Green was a factor in the Jet game

Since that time he’s vanished. I thought we had found a gem on the scrap heap but I haven’t noticed him since.

by the yooper on Jan 18, 2011 3:24 PM CST up reply actions

Green

Only plays on run downs and all he does is hold the point of attack and take up blockers! He’s been playing pretty well actually, just not noticable cuz its not his job to make tackles or get sacks!

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

He played really well against the Falcons, I thought.

He’s not a factor against passing teams, because that’s not his role.

by Wiedmann on Jan 20, 2011 2:45 AM CST up reply actions

Comment on Hawk

It is crazy how much the tied has turned on him. Early in the year people all over the place but ecspecially here were pleading with TT to trade him for Lynch.

I have always liked Hawk but i think Chillar brought a toughness that Hawk doesnt display. The rest of there skills are comparable maybe a difference in coverage.

by o-lineu on Jan 18, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions

tide not tied(i suck at grammar)

by o-lineu on Jan 18, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions

I was watching ESPN yesterday and they listed Woodson, Matthews and Hawk as the leaders of our defense. I got a bit of a chuckle and thought of some of the guys on here and what they would have thought of that comment!

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by TrevorR on Jan 19, 2011 9:44 AM CST up reply actions

I take it you mean Hawk

by the yooper on Jan 19, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions

I will mention this here...

The Packers have missed 90+ starts (or would-be starts) from putting players on the IR. When this has happened in the past, no team has EVER had more than 6 wins that season. So that means, no team with that many starts missed has made the playoffs or been to a NFCCG.

That is impressive to say the least.

by Bush League All Star on Jan 18, 2011 1:52 AM CST reply actions

Going into Atl, I'm pretty sure I read it was over 200 missed games!

Not just starts, but total missed games by players…

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by Strohman on Jan 18, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

Yep.

I couldn’t find any info based on total games missed, just starts. I am sure though the 200 missed games would be up there as well. Impressive to say the least.

by Bush League All Star on Jan 18, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions

Football Outsiders

article on the same stat – look… Colts win! woohoooo?

How can you not love a team who does this?
Read great Colts analysis on Coltzilla and follow me on Twitter

by LovinBlue on Jan 19, 2011 11:35 PM CST up reply actions

Besides the IR players

We had starters miss games that didn’t go on IR. Cullen jenkins missed significant time Pickett, Rogers, Matthews all missed games. Several were also really hampered by being dinged up. That shin injury really effected Matthews burst the 2nd half the season

by the yooper on Jan 18, 2011 7:34 AM CST reply actions 1 recs