Jennings Injured His Hand and The Season So Far
by Brandon on Oct 24, 2011 5:00 AM CDT
in Green Bay Packers Analysis
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With the bye week ahead for the Green Bay Packers, it's a chance to let the players rest, let other players heal, and for the coaches to spend some extra time preparing for one of their toughest road games of the season: in San Diego on November 6th.
The only injury of note was a hand injury to Greg Jennings. He hurt it early against the Vikings, but he came back later to catch six more passes including his long touchdown. He admitted it hurt to catch a pass. Hopefully the bye week is coming at a good time for him.
While looking back at the season so far, when teams have played either six or seven games, it isn't a true mid-point analysis. But it doesn't hurt to see how the Packers have played so far this season beyond their 7-0 record.
125.7. Through the first seven games, Aaron Rodgers has a crazy QB rating of 125.7 for the season. Tom Brady is a distant second at 104.8. Rodgers had his best statistical game of the season (146.55 rating) against the Vikings.
3.8 ypc. Despite a strong finish against the Vikings by James Starks, the Packers remain below average while running. With only 5 rushing touchdowns and 3 plays of more than 20 yards, it's not an explosive running game. Overall I've got no complaints about the offense. I'm only pointing out some room for improvement.
11 INTs. The pass defense leads the NFL with 11 INTs, but that doesn't translate to their QB rating against (79.3), which ranks them as the 9th best pass defense. They've surrendered the most passing yards in the NFL (2,022), which shows where they can improve, but also highlights that only the Raiders and the Bears have had more passes attempted against them. The bye week might really help the secondary as S Morgan Burnett (broken hand), CB Tramon Williams (bruised shoulder) and CB Sam Shields (concussion) might all feel better in a couple weeks.
4.6 ypc against. After the gashing by Adrian Peterson, the Packers have now allowed 4.6 ypc against. While I don't think it is as important to be dominant against the run, a run-first offense would be hard pressed to match the Packers offense, it is an area for improvement. When Peterson was making a big run, it seemed like there were either no linebackers around or they were failing to contain the play. Erik Walden hasn't been too impressive this season, and hopefully Frank Zombo (hyperextended knee) returns healthy after the bye week. That's assuming Zombo is even an improvement over Walden.
Special teams. Mason Crosby is having his best season. He's made every kick attempt so far this season. Tim Masthay was off to a horrible start, but his net average is up to 33.5 (not good, but getting better). We've seen the good from Randall Cobb (touchdown return against the Saints) and the bad (fumbles against the Panthers and Vikings). Overall, it's not been a great unit, but they're playing better than they have in recent seasons.
Overall it's a dominant pass offense with a better than some stats indicate pass defense. They've fallen behind at times, but they eventually hit the gas to either pull away on offense or shut down their opponents with turnovers. It's not a 7-0 team built on smoke and mirrors. They are a very good team that is building off the success of their win in the Super Bowl.
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I've overall been pretty disappointed by Cobb
Every kickoff he takes out of the end zone causes me to hold my breath. I like that the dude has wheels and shows them every kick off, but I swear to God you have to at least slow down if you’re running into a wall of humanity. I’d really like to see him get smarter and be more willing to run out of bounds or go down easier instead of testing quantum electron tunneling every return. Then again, since Slocum is his coach, maybe that’s expecting too much.
Cobb
Well, to be a successful kick returner, you’ve got to hit the first wave of defenders at full speed to be able to pop a big return. You can’t dance and pick a hole. I like the fact that Cobb comes out at full speed and looks to make one cut into one opening and go. Cobb did redeem himself somewhat with a long punt return in the second half to set up a score.
Nitschke never wore an earring!
Hester seems to be able to dance and pick holes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVT91mNMS8A
Harvin’s is more straight forward running but it’s smarter running; he’s not running into a pile of people
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF6-XWj1IXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NEUwYynEZA
I’m sure that part of it is the return blocking and opening the holes for Cobb to run through. It just still seems like Cobb runs too recklessly when nothing is there.
Hester is better so Cobb is disappointing?
So let me get this straight….
Cobb is a disappointment because he’s not quite as good as one of the best returnmen in the history of the NFL? Nevermind the fact that he’s a clear upgrade at the position over what we’ve had in the past. Nevermind that he is an explosive player who has a huge upside and should be a great weapon for years to come. Nevermind that we have so many weapons that the Packers don’t need to rely on him so he can be that sort of slash player that gives just a bit more of dynamic presence to the offense.
by PackApologist on Oct 24, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
He’s not even as good as Eric Metcalf, cut him!
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Oct 24, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh. puh-lease.
Cobb is better than any returner we’ve had since Allan Rossum. One muff and you’re ready to cut his throat. Whatever.
I believe he used...
sarcasm in his post. :)
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Oct 24, 2011 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
This is an example
of why these blogs are just fodder. one guy has an opinion six guys jump all over him and say “You’re Wrong” as if they know exactly what that person means and they try to sound cool and use big words and Allen Rossum and Eric Metcalf references to add flair to their barbs.
The guy was talking about his style, not comparing Cobb to Hester.
My disapointment is the number of scary moments when he takes a kickoff out of the end zone
And rams into a wall at full speed.
No, I don’t expect him to be a Devin Hester. The assertion was that a successful kick returner has to ram into defenders (and blockers, apparently) at full speed. I gave two examples from within our own division to the contrary.
All I want is the ball at least at the 20 yard line. Anything else is gravy.
I would trade a few times behind the twenty for the potential explosion he brings
Cobb has done alright at the return game so far this season. He’s been better at it than most of the players we’ve put back there in the most recent years. The only guy besides Cobb that was a consistent threat back there was Allen Rossum and that was nearly 10 years ago.
Same thing for punts. Sure he does some risky things, like the muffed punt this past week, but then again he also has the ability to break it open and get great field position or even a TD. Cobb had a play like that too where he’s gone if Griffen doesn’t have a whole bunch of hustle in order to save the touchdown.
All that is going to happen with a rookie who is trying to make a play. The nice topper on all of it is that unlike Hester, Cobb is actually pretty good as a reciever and offensive weapon. Really he’s like Percy Harvin to me. He’s able to make things happen when he gets the football and can really shred the middle of the field. The best part is that he’s down on the weapon chart so the offense doesn’t have to depend on Cobb, which allows him to be even better. He’s that last little wrinkle that will drive defenses crazy.
by PackApologist on Oct 24, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
The Krumble is the second worst turnover, IMHO
Just behind the pick/fumble 6. I’m fine with being behind the 20 too, I just don’t want to lose the ball. The muff yesterday gave them a lot of momentum. Masthay had the punt downed in the 2, Minnesota couldn’t do anything, we were poised to get the ball at midfield at best, our own 35 or 30 at worst. Instead Minnesota marched down for a TD.
I mean, I’m not throwing the guy to the curb. Cobb is still a good guy and I’m glad we got them. I just prefer ball security over field position, and if I had to start at the 20 every time but was guaranteed the ball I’d take that.
I wonder if they have stats on kick return fumbles, I’d be curious on how other teams stack up.
Looking at the stats
About two dozen have at least 1 TO and several have 2 for combined PR/KR. So I guess I’m probably being a little harsh.
I do too...
thats what I keep thinking when he turns it over on punts.
Kickoff returns are fine even if he doesn’t get past the 20, eventually he’ll make some big plays. But the punts muffs are just killers. You’ve stopped the opposing offense (seemingly tougher to do this year) and are getting the ball back to the most explosive offense in the NFL. No reason to take risks. If you have room then take it, if not just catch it and let Rodgers do his thing.
Unlike the Bears, we don’t NEED Special Teams to factor into the game to get most wins.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Oct 24, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
In short Cobb is playing like what he is.
A rookie! At times he’s shown what he can and will become, a playmaker, but at times and on too many occasions he has played like a Rookie. He is talented and should develop quite well, but he has alot to learn and needs to focus better on ball security and catching the ball cleanly. As of now, he has been rather ordinary, averaging 8.0 yds per punt return, which should be his strength over kick returns. In short hes playing pretty much like I expected this year… Like a rookie! Shown he has the ability and he will develop, but gotta get alot better.
Anyone remember the discussion about Cobb in training camp and presason? Sure glad we didn’t do anything rash, like you know design alot of plays for him…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Anyone remember the discussion about Cobb in training camp and presason? Sure glad we didn’t do anything rash, like you know design alot of plays for him…
LOL. Nobody ever said that he should have plays designed for him. That was what YOU made our argument into. We simply asserted that he should be involved in the offense. I don’t think one drop yesterday proves that wrong. We said he was explosive and he’s been just that. He’s got 11 catches for 187 yards. That’s an average of 17 ypc — pretty darn good.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 24, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah...
I’ve actually been more impressed with Cobb on offense than in the kicking game.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Oct 24, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
No there were people who wanted plays designed for him!
I had no problem w/ integrating him into the offense. I expected he would share Drivers workload anyway. Cobb still has alot to learn about playing WR and he has been very ordinary on PR, which should be a strength. Plus his ball security, has been horrible. WHats he got at least 2 fumbles and a muff on punts so far? Hes gotta get much better!!!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Well, then I apologize. I must be misremembering.
He has a lot to learn but so does every rookie receiver.
He’s been ordinary on punt returns but I personally think that has more to do with a) not having a lot of chances (only 12 through 7 games), b) he’s been forced to fair catch, or should have fair catched probably 70-80% of them, and c) our punt blocking isn’t all that great.
When he’s had some room to run I think he’s looked really good. And he is 4th in average return yards per kick. He’s gotta get better with the ball for sure, and hopefully that’s something that will come.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 25, 2011 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I am surprised you are bringing up the preseason discussion...
Because what Cobb has done in the offense is be far more productive and involved than what you seemed to be supporting. Thankfully, you were wrong about that.
Wrong about what?
Saying they would integrate him into the offense, just not design plays for him?! Yeah I was really wrong about that… LMAO He’s shown he can make some plays, but he’s playing very little, wonder why? Maybe cuz he runs the wrong route… Like he did vs NO opening nite, but Rodger got him the ball anyway and he scored. Good for him. I never doubted he could play, just that he wasnt’ and isn’t ready for much more than a part time role!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Hester is the best return-man in NFL history
if Cobb isn’t as good that’s probably ok since nobody in history is either
Man's only as good as the strength of his/her convictions
DUDE! YOu are comparing him to THE BEST return man to play the game. Just because he’s a freak and can stop and start on a dime like that doesn’t mean that every guy can. You can’t compare him to ONE guy who was capable of doing that when 90% of guys won’t be able to pull it off. Part of the reason Hester can do it is because he’s the best at punt returns and that is the kind of thing you have to do with punt returns to break them, but they are different animals.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Cobb needs better blocking
The Bears use their starters on special teams for Hester, so that really is not a great comparison. But even Slocum has admitted that we need better blocking for him.
On punt returns, he really hasn’t had to many chances to return punts. Most of them are fair catches due to short punts, great hang time, or shoddy blocking. I think Cobb was getting antsy, and really wants to return punts and never call for a fair catch. He definitely can make some better decisions on those.
But we have to remember that he is a rookie and is only 21.
I don’t necessarily disagree that he doesn’t need to be a little less reckless (essentially caused his one fumble against Carolina) but he’s averaged 30 yards per kick return which is 4th in the league behind McKnight, Ginn, and Harvin.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 24, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Slocum said ...
I read this some time back, so I have no idea how to link to it. But Slocum said that he wanted a KR who could run hard into the wall and break tackles. While I haven’t seen every kick return over the past 20 years, my impression of the really good returners are people like Hester and Dante Hall, White Shoes Johnson, Travis Williams, etc. These aren’t big guys, who break a lot of tackles, but guys who can cut on a dime and do it over and over again making people miss.
Cobb is good. Better than we’ve had in a long time. He’s got a little bit of the ‘wiggle’ ability, but not like the real greats. That said, I think he is going to be our #2 WR in a couple years. He looks really good, except for that one drop.
PR vs KR
Punt returns are when you need to be a more elusive open field runner. KR is where it helps to be a little bigger. Don’t have to be, but it helps. KR is more like running thru a hole as a RB. Gotta break some arm tackles on KR sometimes. They originally wanted Green on KR and Cobb on PR, just for that reason. Green just missed time in preseason that cost him the KR job and Cobb has been pretty good on that.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
That's assuming Zombo is even an improvement over Walden.
I feel he is not, and from what I read in the comments, I am in the minority.
My thoughts are that they are both mediocre at best, and hot garbage at their worst. Walden is so slow, I can’t remember how many times he had a clear lane to Ponder, and had to pull up because he was too slow to get to him before he released the pass. Dude has 21 tackles through 7 games, nothing else to say about him.
This, in my opinion, is the position most in need of an upgrade in the draft.
Last thoughts, I hate Jarrett Bush in the secondary. I love him on Special Teams, hate him in the secondary.
Yep..
I’ve been disappointed in Walden. I thought he would be better. Zombo though, doesn’t seem to be a huge upgrade either. Whatever the case, the defense needs to get more consistent pressure on the ooposing QB.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
Did Zombo play yesterday?
I was only able to catch the last 20 minutes of the game, but I didn’t see him on the field anywhere. IMO, Zombo is a little more explosive than Walden, but that’s not saying a whole lot. I hope he improves and maybe changes his approach and taking good angles to get to the ballcarrier during the bye. Jarrett Bush is just Jarrett Bush. Anyway we can suit up that All-Pro DB Kevin Greene to play instead? (Is the meme still on? lol )
When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLVI, Guaranteed! - REVENGE4FAVRE
Zombo
Isn’t an upgrade over Walden. I Read the Packers consider Walden the better pass rusher and Zombo the better run player. Walden was basically leading the rotation in training camp and preseason when Zombo was injured, so its kinda hard to consider Zombo an upgrade. Clearly there will be a rotation between them when Zombo can get on the field. When/if that happens…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I think he will be
Even if the pass rush ability remains similar, Zombo is a better tackler and he’ll play the run a lot better – which should allow the safeties more flexibility to play pass.
talking about this year
If he can’t rush the passer, then we need to draft someone who can. But we still have a lot of games left to play this year.
Yeah, I agree that, that’s our biggest need. I don’t know if this year’s draft class has some good OLB prospects but I sure hope they do.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 24, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Zombo
Zombo is a high effort guy who never gives up or stops working at it. He played through both injuries. That is what I think may eventually give him an edge over Walden.
Walden has been pretty bad on the run at times. He doesn’t hold the edge and he misses tackles.
I’m not sure where the coaches will see Zombo vs Walden after Zombo is back for a few games, but I’d sure give Zombo a chance. Walden hasn’t played well.
This bye week...
Couldn’t have come at a better time.
Minor League Contributing Writer, Athletics Nation.
State high point count: 4/50
If you are grouchy, irritable, or just plain mean, there will be a $10 charge for putting up with you.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 24, 2011 9:49 AM CDT reply actions
Agreed.
Pending new injuries, we should be pretty healthy for the game in SD.
Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Drink, and Fight!
by Brand New Hero on Oct 24, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Missing Jenkins
We had space under the cap. Even re-signing James Jones(something I was in favor of), we still had room under the cap. We should have re-signed Cullen Jenkins.
Jenkins was “often injured”. He played hurt. Mike Neal, our answer to Jenkins has played 2 games in 2 years. Justin Harrell our first round draft pick when we had a decent one where the Pack went 6-10 never played a meaningful down in a game and was in the training room more than he was on the field. Howard Green is so big, his number should be 9 and 5 is great against the run, but not the pass. He’s older so he’s not an every down back either. CJ Wilson is a rookie and plays like one.
Jenkins and Raji would both get double teamed. That means there’s 1 guy for Pickett, and who’s left free? The Claymaker. Clay has been quiet this year. And it’s not by choice and it’s not because he’s not trying. It’s because he has to fight with an offensive tackle every play. I’d like to see a safety blitz, but with Nick injured and Woodson needed for pass protection, I don’t see that happening. They say defense wins championships, I hope that this season they’re wrong.
But we didn't resign Jenkins
So worrying about what we SHOULD have done isn’t really worth it. This time last year we signed Howard Green to help with the run. Let’s see what Capers does with the bye and maybe we will see someone brought in for try outs.
by stratefaced on Oct 24, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Ron Wolf's cardinal rule
It’s tough to live by absolutes in the NFL, but there are some principles that executives need to live by in order to properly manage a team. One of the main rules that Ron Wolf used to live by, and probably the biggest rule that TT has picked up and one he is stressing to his current staff it seems, is this:
It’s better to cut a player a year too early than a year too late.
Really that’s what the Jenkins deal was more than money. Jenkins said that he would take the home town discount. He said he wanted to come back here, but it was clear that the Packers weren’t interested. The reason why is because TT and staff believed that, even though he’s a great player and a rare find, it’s better to cut a player a year too soon than a year too late. That Jenkins has more good seasons behind him than in front of him, and that he does suffer from injury problems.
Probably not the best plan for this year, but then again decisions like this have to have more than one year a time in mind. A guy you sign to a three or four year contract had better be good at least two or three years of that deal, otherwise you’ve wasted money and a roster spot for someone who could be younger, cheaper, and more promising.
by PackApologist on Oct 24, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This applies to Bert Feeve as well
when life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic...
Jenkins
Hindsight is great regarding the Jenkins non-signing. First, the offseason was incredibly compressed without agents able to talk to TT and his crew. Secondly, Jenkins was one of the oldest players on the D Line, and he had been injured considerably the previous two seasons. Third, TT couldn’t have anticipated the soft market for all free agents, and probably didn’t think he could get Jenkins that cheap. Fourth, TT needed to sign Jones, Nelson, Sitton, with Finley and Rodgers on the horizon. TT wasn’t going to give a 5 year contract like Jenkins got to a 30 year old D Lineman.
Finally, good teams win championships. The top two defenses played in last year’s Super Bowl. What was the final score? 6-3? How about 31-25, as both offenses were pretty good too on two well balanced teams.
Nitschke never wore an earring!
by Packer Pete on Oct 24, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
the Eagles run defense
First, CJ Wilson is in his second year.
Jenkins is receiving a part of the ‘blame’ for the Eagles poor run defense. Jenkins isn’t one of those big plug the whole kind of defensive lineman. He’s more of a quick move guy, who can shoot gaps and get into the backfield. He also can rush the passer. I think another reason that TT let Jenkins go in favor of Neal (besides age and cost) is that Neal is stouter against the run.
I hope the break cures some ills.
I really thought Walden would get better but it seems like he has regressed.
Claymaker draws so much attention that you would think someone else
would be standing out by now. Maybe there’s a diamond in the rough out
on the street some place. I miss Jenkins too but business is business.
Also, is it just my view or does it seem that we let up on offense again once we
got the double digit lead? Is that a mental thing on the offense or a coaching
mindset coming back to haunt us? We need to keep the pedal to the metal
in my opinion and be sure they don’t get up once we get the two score lead lead.
With the secondary we faced yesterday, Rodgers should have been piling it
on. He got pressured early but it seemed to heal later on. That game shouldn’t have been as close as it was but of course Cobb’s pass drop and fumble didn’t help..
A win is a win so I can’t complain but I also don’t like how we let a team hang around
when it isn’t necessary. I was hoping I wouldn’t be doing so much nail biting this
season. Hopefully we can jump on San Diego early and keep pouring it on or
we’ll be sweating again. The break may help with healing and renew the vigor.
BJK
The running game
is nowhere near as bad as the 3.8 ypc suggested in the OP. That must be when you take Rodgers’ short carries into account. According to PFR, James Starks is averaging 4.5 ypc and Ryan Grant has 4.0 ypc himself as well, but they get about 20-21 carries at most to do that with. Whether that’s underutilizing them or not I’m not sure, but I have to say that’s pretty decent to go along with our killer passing game. We certainly don’t look as clueless or lost on the ground as we did last year, and it’s likely a huge reason we’re 7-0 as opposed to the 4-3 or whatever we were last year.
The Packers passer rating differential is +44.2
wow. just wow
Man's only as good as the strength of his/her convictions
The defense's rating is pretty good..
but its tough to not give most of the credit to Rodgers. Like Peter King said in his article, imagine if 111.4 is the worst rating he has all year.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Oct 24, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The Packers are 9th in defensive passer rating, aka top 10.
The statistics give it to Rodgers also btw. They kind of have to since the Packers are 1st in offensive passer rating and 9th in defensive passer rating.
Man's only as good as the strength of his/her convictions
by TheGr8Henry on Oct 25, 2011 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions
like this stat..
Passer rating differential was found to be a better predictor of how good a team is vs run differential by football outsiders I think
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
No complaints, just concerns...
I’ll take and appreciate the win against the Vikes.
At the same time, it was/is disappointing that the Packs D-line could not get a push and disrupt (and beat-up) a rookie QB more than they did. Throw in the weak run D and big rushing yards, and you have a reason for concern.
The teams under McCarthy have all finished seasons stronger than they start. Just hoping the D can jell and find its muscle and groove. As long as the D improves some, things will be fine for the playoffs.
The chances of a team figuring out a way to shut down Rodgers go up greatly in the playoffs.
The D needs to improve enough to keep things close in a true defensive battle.
God bless Aaron Rodgers. Beautiful art in motion.
Linebacker play
All of AP’s big runs were off those he bounced outside. LBs got sucked in when Peterson made his first cut inside and LBs ran up to fill. When Peterson shifted direction, the backers were caught in the wash and the safetys played back. Peprah needs to play better. I’d like to see what So’oto can offer.
So'oto
He’s healthy now isn’t he? I’m guessing he must not be performing too well in practice otherwise I would have expected to see him on defense to some extent.
So'oto
Not sure if he’s healthy now or not…. Think so. He hasn’t been active cuz they had Lattimore playing heavily on ST, which So’oto hasn’t done and is learning. Lattimore was a core ST player and as a backup LB, if you don’t play ST they don’t keep you active on game day! As So’oto gets better on ST he might get active on game day. Right now, at least prior to being injured, Lattimore was FAR better on ST than So’oto. Why he has been active, and So’oto hasn’t…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
But So'oto is a future Hall of Famer!
Why squander that talent when we all saw him make a play in preseason which will obviously translate into the regular season and make him better than Clay Matthews?
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Oct 25, 2011 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
1 Target
It’s hard to get more than one catch when the ball isn’t being thrown at you.
"Football isn't a contact sport, it's a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport."
He has been incredible this year…proving all the haters that questioned his contract wrong. He’s a big reason wer are undefeated too! The coach clearly has complete faith in him to pound them all through!
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
by TrevorR on Oct 25, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Goodness, people...
Sarcasm isn’t picked up very easily around here, huh? If you want to use sarcasm font, put an @ sign before and after a sentence in the comment box.
Like this, see?
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