Midway through the season, MVP candidates.
by Nels Winkler on Oct 29, 2011 12:51 AM CDT
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PrintAll right not quite, but it's close enough. Coming into week 8, we've got a few front runners.
Breaking it down by position.
QB
Aaron Rodgers - 2372 Yards 20 TD 3 INT 8 40yard passes 125.7 rating 71.5% 2 Rush TD 0 Fumb
Tom Brady*... - 2163 Yards 16 TD 8 INT 4 40yard passes 104.8 rating 67.5% 0 Rush TD 0 Fumb
Drew Brees... - 2477 yards 18 TD 8 INT 6 40yard passes 104.6 rating 70.9% 0 Rush TD 0 Fumb
DE
Jarred Allen - 29 Tackles 11.5 Sacks 2 Forced Fumbles 1 INT
RB
Adrian Peterson... - 712 Rush 8 TD 6x 20+yard rush 1 Fumb 49 Rec 0 TD 0 20+Rec 0 Fumb
Matt Forte.......... - 672 Rush 2 TD 9x 20+yard rush 0 Fumb 419 Rec 1 TD 5 20+Rec 0 Fumb
Darren McFadden - 614 Rush 4 TD 8x 20+yard rush 1 Fumb 154 Rec 1 TD 1 20+Rec 0 Fumb
Fred Jackson*..... - 601 Rush 6 TD 8x 20+yard rush 0 Fumb 279 Rec 0 TD 4 20+Rec 0 Fumb
WR
Wes Welker*... - 51 Rec 785 Yards 6 TD 13 20+Rec 0 Fumb
Calvin Johnson - 41 Rec 679 Yards 10TD 11 20+Rec 0 Fumb
CB
Charles Woodson - 28 Tackles 1.0 Sacks 12 Pass Def 5 INT 1 FRec 1 TD
Looking at these guys at a quick glance, these are the #'s I'd give them.
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Calvin Johnson
3. Tom Brady
4. Matt Forte
5. Wes Welker
6. Drew Brees
7. Fred Jackson
8. Jarred Allen
9. Adrian Peterson
10.Darren McFadden
11.Charles Woodson
But if you make the arguemnt that MVP should be the team that could live the least without a player, the figures change a bit.
Take that player off the team, and what sort of impact do they have?
1. Aaron Rodgers - Without Rodgers, the Packers are a good team with good weapons, and an unproven QB. Flynn did well last year in his small role, but without Rodgers, we are a struggling 3-4 team.
2. Calvin Johnson - Megatron is an imposing force. Without him, Stafford has other guys to throw the ball to, but the prayer lobs wouldn't be there. They are also a 3-4 team without him.
3. Tom Brady - Brady is off to a spetacular start. Without Tom, Ryan Mallet is the starting QB, and guess what, in preseason, he looked like he could be as good as any of the QB's coming into this season. they'd be decent right now.
4. Matt Forte - Without Forte, Cutler would be 22nd in passing yards. This team would be in sire straights and would be looking at the suck for Luck sweepstakes.
5. Wes Welker - Brady has plenty of guys to throw the ball to. Not much impact on this.
6. Drew Brees - I don't even know who the backup is. Without Brees, this team is nowhere.
7. Fred Jackson - The engine that could in Buffalo. He's a great reason why they're off to such a good start. without him, this team is troubled.
8. Jarred Allen - This is a tough one, since the Vikings aren't doing well. But leading the league in sacks and on pace for a record season is nothing to scoff at. Allen is essentially the Vikings defense.
9. Adrian Peterson - You see the periods of the season where the coaches take the ball out of AP's hands, and it's a disaster. Many of their losses are due to AP not getting the ball in the second half. take him out, and any QB in the area would suffer mightily.
10.Darren McFadden - Jason Campbell isn't the reason why Oakland was scoring points. Take him out and it's just lose baby.
11.Charles Woodson - The Packers struggles on defense aren't becuase of Woodson. Leading the league in INT's at the age of 35,36. He's an all time player. Filling his shoes isn't impossible however, and the packers wouldn't change much without him, just be slightly less effective on defense.
So given their value to their team, things get rearranged.
1a. Peyton Manning - clearly he is the most valuable to his team.
1. Matt Forte
2. Drew Brees
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Adrian Peterson
5. Fred Jackson
6. Darren McFadden
7. Calvin Johnson
8. Tom Brady
9. Jarred Allen
10.Charles Woodson
11.Wes Welker
Now, this is only half-way through the season, and I'm sure that opponents are going to key on these players, so we only have to wait and see how each of these guys perform. I don't think Forte will be able to keep up the pace he's setting, especially considering that he's gonna be the focal point of most defenses. Brees has the best chance to keep up his pace, given that half of his games are going to be in weather friendly domes. Rodgers can do it, but with many games at Lambeau in the winter, things are going to be hard for our guy to win it. Our only hope is if we go 16-0. Can't deny Rodgers the title if that happens.
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I've always thought the MVP should be the best player on the best team.
Of course this won’t always hold true, because some great teams don’t have that clear best player. I just think even if you’re having a monster year, if its not leading to wins it doesn’t really mean much. Allen and Peterson are having very good years so far but the Vikings are 1-6, even though Peterson is clearly having a better year than say, Forte, Forte’s production is leading to wins which makes him more valuable.
Manning is an interesting addition. I’ve heard some of the national talking heads make this argument too, but its not like the Colts were 4-0 before Manning went out and they’ve lost every game since. There’s no telling what their record would be with Manning in there, they could be 2-5 for all we know.
I've always believed that the MVP
should be the Most Valuable Player to his team.
Also, to be considered, it has to be somebody who is actually a ‘player’ during the given season; meaning, he has to actually be out on the field playing, not sitting at home on IR.
So, that knocks Manning out cold, IMO.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
There’s no telling what their record would be with Manning in there, they could be 2-5 for all we know.
Doubt it. This is basically the exact same team, only they’ve gotten Clark, Collie, and Garcon back. The OL has been upgraded a bit as well. I think it goes to show just how good Manning really is to have led this team into the playoffs the last few seasons.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 29, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Except this year they're giving up almost 33 pts/game
Granted Manning would alleviate some of this with sustained drives, but they just gave up 62 points to NO and there’s no way that game is that much closer with Manning in there.
Manning affects this a lot. Longer drives means a more rested D and the other team probably wouldn’t have as good of field position either. Sure the D isn’t very good, but either is the D for the Pats or the Packers (this year).
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
This
The Colts with Manning are almost always going to put up around 28 points and maybe even more. And this season, I think they woulda been able to sustain drives even better because their OL has finally given them somewhat decent run blocking.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 30, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I think right now, it should go Rodgers, Brady, Forte, Brees.
Rodgers has just been playing lights out. In my opinion, he’s been the best QB this season and it’s not really close. It’s kind of a toss up between Brady and Brees but I think Brady’s big games put him ahead of Brees. As for Forte, I’m pretty sure he’s accounted for like over 50% of the Bears offense. The guy has been absolute monster, and deserves to be mentioned among the top RB’s in the league. I still don’t get how the Bears haven’t extended him already — oh wait, yeah I do, it because Angelo is their GM.
Fire Slocum
I am with you on Forte, he deserves to be up there pretty high. I don’t like Calvin up there, WRs just don’t touch the ball enough to be considered for MVP in my opinion. I think we are goign to have to start putting Foster into this convo in the coming weeks as his numbers start going up. Clearly he makes that offense go from good to amazing.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Yeah, I don’t like Calvin up there either. He’s been amazing but he hasn’t had the impact Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Forte have had.
Agreed about Foster.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 30, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Forte makes that offense go...
No doubt about that, but it still only goes from bad (or non-existent) to good. Certainly not from good to amazing!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
True…but that isn’t HIS fault that they have a terrible GM that can’t get any other real talent out there. I mean heck, he’s putting up those kind of numbers with JAY CUTLER throwing the ball and probably the worst offensive line in the league.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Forte makes that offense go...
Like I said… Thats undeniable. Only thing I disagreed w/ is that it goes from good to amazing. W/o Forte that offense is TERRIBLE and w/ Forte its just good. Its not anywhere near amazing!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yeah...
Forte is the only thing that really keeps them in games. I’ll give Cutler credit in that he has been immensly tough this year and really tried to win some games that were just lost from the start (Detroit) on his own. But without Forte, there is really nothing he or that team have left to work with.
Martz has smartly (and a few weeks too late) figured out that featuring Forte makes his offense more dangerous.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Nov 1, 2011 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I always thought that the MVP of the NFL
Was the best player on one of the better teams and helped the most in scoring and either put more asses in the seats of the stadiums or more eyeballs on the TVs for games. Either way ya slice it, it’s gotta be Aaron Rodgers followed closely by Brees, Brady, and maybe Megatron
When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.
Brett Favre will lead the Vikings to a Victory in Super Bowl XLVI, Guaranteed! - REVENGE4FAVRE
Not nessecarily
Barry Sanders won it in 1997 on a very mediocre Lions team.
That 1997 team
lost a playoff game.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
MVP
There is NO MVP race to speak of at the moment! It would take a herculean effort for someone to get in the race w/ Rodgers and Rodgers to play down to them dramatically for there to even be a MVP race! Right now its a runaway freight train in Rodgers! Going forward, I don’t expect Rodger to do alot worse, maybe not quite as good, but even that might not happen. Just tell it like it is… Rodgers IS the MVP, unless he gets hurt, and/or someone starts playing at Rodgers current level and Rodgers playing down to them. Neither of which I find particularly likely.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Oct 29, 2011 8:23 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
The only thing could be...
if Rodgers numbers drop due to weather and Brees keeps up his in the dome…. people tend to forget easily as the weeks go by what happened early in the season.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Oct 29, 2011 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I think this is homerism. Sure Rodgers has been great, but its not like he’s the only QB putting up great numbers this year. I think he’s the front runner but I think its closer than you give it credit for. Remember there’s always an east coast bias in these things too so that is a bump for Brady!
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Who's even close right now?
If the vote were held right now, Rodgers wins by a landslide. Probably unanimous! How is that homerism?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
There's nobody even remotely close at this point.
Rodgers leads in pretty much every major category, adjusted for games played, and its not even really close. There are two numbers that pretty much seal the deal IMO: 20 – 3, his TD/INT ratio and 125.7 – 104.4, his QB Rating and that of the next closest which is Brady.
There's no homerism here.
We’re talking about the guy who is playing so out-of-his-mind lights out that we sometimes discuss barring him from the ‘gameball of the week’ vote, just so somebody else can have a chance to win it. :)
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Eight straight
Super Bowl rating: 111.8
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
I'm in no way trying to say I think Forte SHOULD be MVP
Just that a case could be made for him to be in consideration.
In the end, I think If we are able to go 14-2/15-1, the only way anyone other than Rodgers wins is if Forte gets 3000 total yards and 30 TDs. Well, that and if aliens abduct Rodgers to play for their football team.
Even if one of the other QB’s break Marino’s single season record, Rodgers gets the MVP especially if he keeps playing as amazing as he has.
You can't argue
That the Patriots with Mallett would be better than GB with Flynn. Rodgers is the better QB right now, but Brady is just as valuable to his own team.
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
So...
You think a talented QB who is a ROOKIE, BTW, would be able to run his teams offense better than a guy who KNOWS his teams offense inside and out and has shown that he can be quite successful in that offense? I would have to totally disagree w/ that… Being able to run an NFL offense takes alot more than just shear talent, it takes Knowledge, poise, leadership and talent. The ONLY one of those things Mallett has over Flynn is talent. Maybe in a year (or 2 more likely) Mallett would surpass Flynn, but certainly not right now!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Read my comment again and think about it...
That’s the opposite of what I said.
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
by Kuhl on Oct 31, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
You said...
NE is better w/ Mallett than GB is w/ Flynn. To me that means they would be more successful as a team w/ Mallett then GB would w/ Flynn at QB. I disagree w/ that… So you think NE w/ Mallett at QB, would beat than GB w/ Flynn. I disagree w/ that too… What I said is that it takes more to be successful in the NFL than just talent. Flynn has better leadership, poise and knowledge than Mallett, so IMO, the Packers are better w/ Flynn than NE is w/ Matllett.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He started by saying “You can’t argue”.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Oct 31, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t care what he started by saying. I disagree w/ the actual comment itself. Regardless of how he tried to qualify it… I think his premise is completely wrong.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Unbelievable!!!
Here’s my statement if I move the heading into the body !!!
You can’t argue that the Patriots with Mallett would be better than GB with Flynn. Rodgers is the better QB right now, but Brady is just as valuable to his own team.
I was completely disagreeing with Nels’ premise that Brady should be 8th on the list!!! ACCORDING TO NELS:
8. Tom Brady – Brady is off to a spetacular start. Without Tom, Ryan Mallet is the starting QB, and guess what, in preseason, he looked like he could be as good as any of the QB’s coming into this season. they’d be decent right now.
Now compare that to what I said in response to him. The heading is a part of the statement !!! Time for you to learn how to read !!!
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
by Kuhl on Oct 31, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Sorry, but to me this reads...
You can’t argue that the Patriots with Mallett would be better than GB with Flynn. Rodgers is the better QB right now,
As if you are saying that its undeniable that NE is better (or would beat) the Packers if they had Mallett and we had Flynn at QB! ANd I disagree…
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
"can't"
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
by Wiedmann on Oct 31, 2011 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you still don't get it
replace “You can’t” with “It is impossible for you to”
It is impossible for you to argue that the Patriots with Mallett would be better than GB with Flynn
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
by Wiedmann on Oct 31, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Inequality form:
NOT THIS: Patriots with Mallett>GB with Flynn
Solved:
Patriots with Mallett<GB with Flynn
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
by Wiedmann on Nov 1, 2011 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Wiedmann
I don’t understand how he still wasn’t getting it.
"I'm here to talk about the economy today -- about the need to get four quarters of strong, consistent performance. That wasn't another Jay Cutler joke, I swear. It could be, but it's not."
by Kuhl on Nov 1, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Strohman’s way of “admitting he’s wrong” is to stop responding, so its safe to say the point is proven.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
by TrevorR on Nov 1, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I had to read it a couple times to get what you meant too....
not sure why it read strangely, but it did to me until I put it together. Maybe cause you split the subject and body up and I subconsciously read them separately.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Nov 1, 2011 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions
The actual comment itself was saying that you can’t argue that Pats with Mallet would be better than the Packers with Flynn. He’s basically saying the same exact thing you said in your first response to him.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 1, 2011 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
There is only one MVP candidate.
when life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic...
Jay Cutler.
when life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic...
Flagged.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Nov 1, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
He said MVP, not "most likely to lead the NFL in interceptions"...
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 4, 2011 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions
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