Will Mike Neal Always Be A Few Weeks Away?
by Brandon on Nov 2, 2011 7:00 PM CDT
in Green Bay Packers News
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PrintThe skeptic in me just doesn't believe any update I read about Green Bay Packers DE Mike Neal. From the Press-Gazette:
The Packers appear optimistic that defensive end Mike Neal will return to the practice field as soon as next week and be ready to play in a few weeks thereafter.
So he might play again in December? In other news, Eagles DE Cullen Jenkins has played in all seven games and has five sacks. The Packers aren't going to hit a home run on every personnel move, but this one does bug me.
The timeline on his injury started with "It's nothing" in August, to knee surgery in September, to "a few weeks thereafter" in November. I hope he gets better and has an outstanding career, but he's given the Packers nothing except injury problems since he was drafted in 2010.
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Here’s hoping the 2012 draft focund about the Jenkins deal was that Jenkins was an inside rush guy and Neal was not. In short the Packers had/have no one to replace Jenkins’ snaps, broken hand and all. Raji is taking too many snaps to be consistently effective rushing the qb. I get the feeling Jenkins would have stayed for less money than he got from the Eagles had the Packers ponied up before free agency. All of which is conjecture and water under the bridge.
If I remember correctly
Jenkins stated that he was willing to give a Home Town Discount. I know he is older but just cut his snaps and keep him in the rotation.
But how much was he expecting to get when in market?
I’d be willing to bet that the expected offers and actual offers differed by quite a wide margin.
I already told you! I deal with the god damn receivers so the linebackers don’t have to! I have coverage skills; I’m good at covering people! Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!
Right.
His “Home Town discount” was based on the expected offers.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
This is what I've been saying all season long!!
Cullen would have given us a hometown discount and stayed in the Green and Gold. Mike Neal could just as easily be called Justin Harrell Jr.!! My money says he never plays a meaningful down in the NFL and WHEREINHELL IS CJ WILSON!?!?! Riding the pine! I was on the front row right behind the Packer Bench when we played the Rams. BJ, Ryan, and Howard Green came back winded because they got in the game. CJ and Jarius Wynn came back, not winded and with clean uniforms! I think the labor situation hurt the Packers in evaluating personnel. Cullen and Nick Barnett could have come back during minicamps and OTAs and shown that they were still ready to play and back ready to play respectively. I know hindsight is 20/20 and everything, but I saw this one from a mile away. Kinda like back in 97, we still had Reggie and Gilbert, but without Sean Jones, it just wasn’t the same. My money is on the Pack to repeat, but it’s gonna be tough.
by biggun33 on Nov 3, 2011 3:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok.
1. Large-scale; overall
- the analysis of social events at the macro level
2. Relating to or used in macrophotography
Think long term. Salary caps. $4 million was WELL BELOW what he was asking for, there’s no way a “hometown discount” would have went that low. What would have happened with Finley next year? Would we have been able to resign Jones? Jenkins wanted a long term deal with us. He’s getting old and has a lengthy injury history. Jesus, it’s like talking to a wall sometimes.
I already told you! I deal with the god damn receivers so the linebackers don’t have to! I have coverage skills; I’m good at covering people! Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!
by msc32887 on Nov 3, 2011 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, forgot to type the word I was defining for you.
The word of the day is macro!
I already told you! I deal with the god damn receivers so the linebackers don’t have to! I have coverage skills; I’m good at covering people! Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!
lol I was like...
that’s not was “Source” means!
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Nov 3, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you obviously know what your talking about
Jay Cutler, first NFL quarterback to beat a playoff team with a losing record.
I am disappoint.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Nov 3, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a Big Ten freak.
He obviously knows far more about players that competed in the Big Ten than we do. How dare we challenge him?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
It bugs me, too...
I would’ve rather signed Jenkins and let James Jones go. I like Jones, and I understand some people see signing Jones is due to Driver’s eventual retirement, but we have more depth and talent at receiver than we do on the D-line.
On another hand...
Check out Brandon Saine’s wikipedia page LINK
Saine has been officially timed at 4.2 seconds in the forty yard dash, although he has been unofficially timed at 4.25 seconds.
Is that true?
Jay Cutler, first NFL quarterback to beat a playoff team with a losing record.
He doesn't seem that fast in pads.
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt it
Al Davis didn’t draft him.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
by Wiedmann on Nov 2, 2011 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
wikipedia?
I don’t trust it.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
With the way that sentence is structured, it seems like it has factual errors
His given unofficial time is slower? Maybe the official time is 4.3; that would make more sense in the context of that sentence.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
Or perhaps 4.2 is the unofficial and 4.25 is the official?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Yeah, that's what I meant...
…the two times are switched. But, for some reason, I typed 4.3 instead of 4.25.
13.
Grossman: Sup, you insulin needing bitch! The sex cannon has arrived! Now get the hell out of my locker room, you chinless mother fucker!
I know this is off topic...
But has anyone heard anything about the stock sale?
by RaY210 on Nov 2, 2011 8:00 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Not yet...
But don’t worry, you won’t be able to miss it when it becomes possible to buy them,
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
***SIGH***
Might as well give him the rest fo the season off and hope he’s ready next year. =/
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi
Going to write this again....this is all thanks to Ron Wolf's Cardinal Rule
It’s better to get rid of a player one year too early than one year too late.
Could we of signed Jenkins, of coarse. It probably wouldn’t of thrown off the long range contracts of the other players either. He would of come at a decent price and probably would of helped the defense this year.
How long would he of held up that level of production and how much would he hinder the development of other players though? Too many moves like that, keeping players who start putting in year by year performances, is what gets a team old and leads to their decline. This is why Wolf had his one major rule for team development. Sometimes it bit him in the ass, but most of the time it worked out for the better. TT has learned that rule and is following it now, even when it’s hard.
by PackApologist on Nov 2, 2011 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
thats a stupid rule
how do you get rid of a player too early? that means they still had value?
NAOPOS
It means..
Paying a player when he is young and inexpensive thru their growth and development, but not paying the years when they are older, more expensive and injury-prone. Signing Jenkins would have taken a 4 or 5 years contract for the Packers at probably about 8M per season. How many of those seasons would be productive years for Jenkins and how many would have been at a very high pay, for much smaller production? Its a balance you have to manage and when you aren’t sure about ther future production you go w/ the younger player!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Great references:
Mike Wahle. Marco Rivera. Brett Favre. Ahman Green.
Just cause a player has a good year left in them, doesn’t mean they are worth a huge contract that will burden the team for years. All those players had a good year or so left in them but the team moved on before they were DOA. It saves the team money and you give young guys a chance to grow into the job.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
People playing the result again...
In a parallel universe, Cullen remains a Packer and (who knows) he gets injured and the very same people lambasting Thompson now are playing the result from the other direction.
To use a gambling analogy, Thompson is a “systems player”. Once you start making exceptions, your system invariably starts to break down. The point about having a system is to take away emotion and subjective attachment to team and players and play according to hard facts. Every rule and system has an exception, but over the long run they lead to good results. It’s the teams that panic and stop following their system and rules (Andrew Brandt talked about this recently in relation to Carson Palmer & the Raiders) that tend to suffer.
by PackFaninFL on Nov 3, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed
I’m really sick of people whining about Jenkins. If Jenkins was such a great defensive lineman, how did our run defense improve upon last season’s effort?
Writing from deep inside the stomach of a rancor.
Run Defense
The reason our run defense is better is because other teams aren’t running as much against us. Aaron normally puts us up by 2 touchdowns and you’re not going to get those 2 touchdowns back by running the ball. Also the Ron Wolf thing, I don’t buy it. If he comes out and he’s not what you thought he was, then you cut him. Then you sign the young guy you’ve got in development from the practice squad. We could have kept Jones and Jenkins both.
Except...
You might have 20M tied up in that contract for the older Jenkins that kills your cap situation for a couple years! Its the exact type of contract problem that can prevent you from winning multiple championships instead of just one. You can’t just cut a guy that has 20+M in guarenteed monty w/o having serious salary cap ramifications!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Yep,
It’s not about this year….. its about long-term viability.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Nov 3, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Dealing with this was a thing
thst the 49ers and cowBoys had a major problem with in the late ’90s.
Those contracts for Deion Sanders and Charles Haley, for example, were far more expensive than their actual dollar amounts.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Why would anybody want to try and run against us when they can pass all day? The beauty of Jenkins as a player was that he was good in both phases.
Now, Neal may turn it around, who knows. But, at this point, you have to say making no effort to keep Jenkins was a mistake. You can say “oh, hindsight’s 20/20,” but, you know what? Yeah, it is! And the fact is that Neal has lost almost all of his rookie year and now all of this one so far due to injuries. This was at least somewhat foreseeable.
And keeping Jenkins would not have hurt anybody’s development long-term. Signing a guy to a multi-year deal does not mean that you’re locked into that guy (see Chillar, Brandon; Poppinga, Brady, et. al.). You sign a guy now and cut him later if you have to. The only thing we’d have been on the hook for is any guaranteed money, of which he didn’t get much in his contract with the Eagles.
Look, what’s done is done. But it has now become clear that, by not even making him an offer, the Packers made a mistake.
by Curly Lambeau on Nov 3, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
He hasn’t done ANYTHING for Philly’s run defense so I think is abilities against the run are a little overrated.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Nice post.
I’ll be awfully disappointed if we go down in the playoffs because the defense can’t hold against really good offenses.
I mean Neal still has a chance to show he can come back this season and fill Jenkins void — and by all means, I hope he does.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 3, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Easy.............................
Guys, guys, guys. Lets be smart here. Shouldn’t we have learned by now to not question Ted Thompson and his staff and anything they do?
by Timothy Bryce on Nov 2, 2011 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
FIRE TT
That dog just won't hunt.
by Bush League All Star on Nov 2, 2011 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's just irritating.
The kid has a lot of potential, but also has a LOT of time missed due to injury.
Get well soon, Mike Neal.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog, and Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog
#FireCraigJames
Follow @GSchofield50
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Nov 2, 2011 9:56 PM CDT reply actions
relax, hes not close to Harrell status yet
NAOPOS
by blackoutsox on Nov 2, 2011 10:43 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Chill everybody....
Why does this sound familiar??? A guy is hurt before the first game, sits inactive for most of the season, but the Pack doesn’t hang him up for the season on IR in hopes that he can contribute come December and the playoffs? Why does this sound so familiar?
Anyone remember James Starks of 2010? That worked out OK as I recall. Dudes, we are 7-0, and we have a guy dealing with our roster that, if nothing else, should have earned the benefit of the doubt for a little while – at least up until we lose our first game I would think. Patience my friends. Trust the TT. Believe in the TT.
by orval77 on Nov 2, 2011 10:46 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Just wait...
The real Packer’s season will begin with the first playoff game. These are just glorified pre-season games. The Pack can afford to wait, until the real season starts.
Ther Real Season?
The real season started 7 games ago. Let’s see what happens over the next 9 games. If I remember right. We were not/or barely were in the running for a play-off berth last season, at this time.
cpocraig
If beauty is skin deep then ugly goes to the bone.
Everyone knows they're going to end up with a first round bye and probably home field advantage.
with their remaining schedule, this is almost a given. At worst they’ll win twelve games.
So the real challenge for them is the postseason, which is when it will be important to have guys like Neal healthy and ready to go.
when life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic...
DE DEbacle
Strohman’s right. Way too many teams out there paying players big money for their stats from 2-4 years ago. Overpaying a few players on a roster can have a huge effect on a team’s depth chart. Unfortuneately for the Pack, Jenkins contract came due when they figured he had maybe 1 or 2 solid years left. It wasn’t like Jenkins was injury free during his Packers career and some red flags were there. I just hope theres a decent DE class in this years draft since its looking like our biggest need. It would be nice to see TT move up ( just once every 5 years) in the 1st round to take a lights out DE since we’ll probably picking in the 29-32 slot again.
You don't ice bowl at the Peanut Farm, do you?
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Hindsight is always better than foresight.
My guess is that if TT and MM had known that Neal would miss most of the year with an injury, they might have at least talked with Jenkins. But, of course, they had no way of knowing that.
they had no way of knowing that.
…except for the fact that he’d already missed his entire rookie year. That’s not to say that they should’ve known he’d miss more time, but it does mean that there was reason to think that there was a decent chance that he might.
And, granted, Jenkins did not have a history of being super-durable either. But that’s exactly why management should’ve concluded “y’know, maybe it would be good to have them both. That way we should get a full season out of their combined availability.” And then, if they both stayed healthy — great! Then you platoon them in and keep ’em fresh, which would also help to avoid injuries.
by Curly Lambeau on Nov 3, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yep..
Neal missed significant time at Purdue as well. Not sure if the knee he has problems with now is the same one he had surgery on in school, but I am willing to bet that playing with that labrum problem contributed to the rotator cuff issue of last year.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
We expect to win.- Ted Thompson July 28, 2011
…and Jenkins missed large portions of his past 3 seasons so why would they think he’d be around this year using that same logic?
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
by TrevorR on Nov 3, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t think the two compare. Neal’s never shown that he can be healthy, Jenkins has. And the main reason Jenkins has missed large portions of the past few years was because of his relatively flukey torn bicep in 2008.
Sure, it’s probably a given that he’ll miss a few games a year but I’d say you could reasonably conclude the same about Pickett, and we were willing to extend him. And if you ask me, the role Jenkins had was much more important to the team than Pickett’s. As well as being much harder to replace.
I get the theory about letting guys go a year to early rather than too late. It makes sense, and I agree with it but I don’t think that means you can’t make an exception to the rule. Had Neal been healthy last season, and contributed in games, or at least gone through practice the entire year then I can get letting Jenkins walk. I just think and thought at the time when all the Jenkins talks were going on, that it was risky to let him go.
It hasn’t hurt us too bad yet seeing as how we’re undefeated, and maybe/hopefully it won’t.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 3, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
except...
I don’t think that means you can’t make an exception to the rule.
Once you start making exceptions to your rules, it becomes that much harder to keep w/ the rules the next time. You end up on a slippery slope to having no rules whatsoever! You end up w/ all your rules out the window, a la Mike Sherman… Once he started making exceptions he never stopped!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
by Strohman on Nov 3, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah...
in this case the rule is in place so you don’t start “making exceptions” or second guessing yourself and betraying your overall philosophy.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Nov 3, 2011 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Again though, you sign Jenkins to that deal and that means you lose Jones and likely other players down the line. He costs cap space and roster space and he doesn’t allow us to let other guys have a chance to grow into his spot. They took a chance that Neal was going to be fine, you can’t call a guy injury prone off one season (speaking of before this latest injury) so they were going off the fact that most guys don’t end up being injury prone. Sure Jenkins looks good now, but will he look that good in the future? Would he have looked AS good in our system? I can guarantee you that we wouldn’t have let him just pin his ears back and go balls to the wall like the eagles.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
Honestly, I woulda been ok with losing Jones. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy we have him but I don’t think it would have been detrimental to lose him.
I guess my biggest problem is that we never even negotiated with him (per Jenkins). He said he was willing to take a hometown discount. I realize it’s unrealistic to think he would have signed him for what the Eagles did but I think he would have agreed to a reasonable contract.
I guess I just look at the deals we made with Woodson, Driver, and Pickett and don’t really see how any of them are much different circumstances — aside from Woodson because he’s been one of the best at his position.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 4, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Driver and Pickett
are really big team leaders and lockerroom guys. Not saying Jenkins was bad lockerroom, but he’s not a team leader like Pickett is. Clearly the Packers decided that Pickett was the more valuable between them… I’ll go w/ their discresion on this one.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I can see the locker room leader with Driver but not as much with Pickett. He and Jenkins situations were pretty much identical. I guess I just find it weird that we would extend him instead of Jenkins.
Finding a guy who can be a run stopper in the 3-4 isn’t really to difficult. Where as it’s pretty rare to find a 3-4 DE who can rush the passer.
Regardless, I’ll acknowledge that Neal should at least get a chance to play and show what he’s got before anybody calls it a mistake.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Nov 4, 2011 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
From what I've read and gathered.
Pickett is every bit as much a lockerroom leader as Driver. He is the unquestioned leader among the DL. He’s big in that way too… He doesn’t get the publicity that Driver does for it, but he is one of the leaders of that lockerroom. You just notice Driver more cuz he gets in front of a camera every chance he gets.
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
But, you simply can’t run a successful team by making decision based on Nostadamus knowledge of the future.
FTFY
But, you simply can’t run a successful team by making decision based on Cheesestadamus knowledge of the future.
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
Skol is a four-letter word.
The Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Jenkins
Really, we should move past this discussion. What’s done is done. However, I am fine with what TT did. Jenkins was injured his past few seasons (although he did play well), is on the down side of his career, and was expensive. He signed a 5 year, $30 million contract. Neal is cheaper, younger, and offers upside. Bringing back Jenkins means we might not have resigned Jones, Sitton, or Nelson. Bringing him back could mean Finley would not get resigned.
As far as Neal goes, injuries happen. He would have been playing by now if he didn’t need that surgery because his rehab wasn’t working. Surgery takes time to heal from. Even then, he needs to get some strength back in his legs before he plays, as well as getting in game shape. It’s nothing we didn’t know. Almost everything I read had Neal coming back and playing a week after the by, and it looks like that estimate is only a week off.
Neal did not have an injury history in college
From what I could dig up, he played in every game Sophomore through Senior.
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