Who is the most controversial Packer in history?
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 12:46 AM CST
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PrintTypically we like to think of the Packers as a classy organization that only employs paragons of virtue. Really though we know this just isn't true. In fact there have been quite a few colorful...or down right questionable....characters to pass through the organization.
Now currently this is coming to light with Johnny Jolly trying to get back into the game after a year's suspension. Jolly isn't the first Packer to cause trouble, and he won't be the last. My question to you fine Packer fans is...who do you think is the most controversial? Or...who is our biggest scoundrel?
I'll give the run down of a few of our usual suspects after the jump.
Suspect #1 Earl "Curly" Lambeau
Sure he founded the team, was the first coach, and led them to their first championship...but that's not the whole story. The guy was married three times (divorced twice in an age where people never really divorced once) and fell out of favor with the team after spending big money on the Rockwood Lodge Resort. This is considered the first self contained facility for professional football, but it was also big luxury at a time when the Packers probably couldn't afford it. After it burnt down Lambeau left the Packers to go coach the Chicago Cardinals.
Suspect #2 Paul Hornung
This was a guy ahead of his day for the superstar athlete. "The Golden Boy" was the last triple threat player scorer in the NFL as a passer, runner, and kicker. A true diva he famously clashed a bit with Lombardi and was routinely out late drinking and picking up women around town with running buddy Max McGee. He was also suspended a year for violating the league's policy on gambling.
Suspect #3 James Lofton
Lofton was one of the few bright spots during what we Packer fans call "the Dark Ages." Everyone else just calls this period the 70's and 80's (although if you look at fashions I think the Packer fans are on to something with their perception of this period as a backward time that should be forgotten). Lofton is one of two Packers to be inducted to the HOF from the "modern era" but his legacy in Green Bay is a bit strained to this day. Lofton left town after a accusations of sexual assault in 84 & 86. He was found to be not guilty, but some of the wounds caused by this PR nightmare have still not healed to this day.
Suspect #4 Forrest Gregg (the Head Coach version)
This is a period of years that we Packers fans would love to forget....if only because it was the time when we clearly lost the moral high ground to Bears fans. Gregg's Packers were not only bad football players, but at some points they were little more than semi-organized hooligans. Seriously, we lost the moral high ground to Bear fans people!
Suspect # 5 Mark Chumra
Chumra was the big man in town as the pretty boy tight end. He was running buddies with Brett Favre. He was the smiling family man who was the paragon of value. Hell, he was a model for clothes in Shopko ads. Then he was caught with his pants around his ankles at a high school post prom party. Enough said.
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You forgot the option for Gregg...
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 14, 2011 1:05 AM CST reply actions
Finger Pointing
Don’t know how you can have this list and not name the previous QB. There now said, let the fighting begin. I’ll see your “everything he did for the city of Green Bay” & raise you a “He’s a traitor”.
Yeah, that's why I didn't go there
Although I will say that a good chunk of our legends left Green Bay in some form of disgrace. Lombardi and Holmgren left to take other jobs with some people feeling bitter about that. Starr was a failure as a coach. So on and so forth.
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 1:10 AM CST up reply actions
Add that option
and watch R4F return…
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 14, 2011 1:14 AM CST up reply actions
LOL
Yeah. I saw that he swung by here just after the SB. Got to give him credit for that really….takes a brass pair. His smack was a bit weak, but who can blame him for that?
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 1:18 AM CST up reply actions
LOL
Yeah. I saw that he swung by here just after the SB. Got to give him credit for that really….takes a brass pair. His smack was a bit weak, but who can blame him for that?
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 1:19 AM CST up reply actions
I'm All-In
He screwed the Packers and Jets by retiring, only to unretire and sign with our arch nemesis, The Vikings. I think I’m right. This “he who shall not be named” QB is surely the most controversial player in Packer History.
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
I think if you keep it to his packer offenses it is legit and justifiable. I wouldn’t bring up his post packer transgressions though:
- Pain killer addiction
- Unretirement
- Turning Packer fans against one another.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
You forgot his photo album collection
Which he so generously liked to share with others
53 Bears, 1 Cup
by I voted for Kodos on Feb 14, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of which....
Are they on Ebay yet?
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
I think they didn't make it to Ebay
for violating a number of decency rules and at least one federal law…
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 14, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
Ah
Was just curious how many bidders those pics got from the Favre Apologists…..
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
I imagine a certain someone put in a bid right before the feds confiscated and destroyed the pics...
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 15, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Hard to go against the kiddy-diddler, Chmura.
He was Ben Roethlisberger before there ever was a Ben Roethlisberger.
2010 Super Bowl Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
B.J. Raji is My Hero.
To me that would be more of a Lofton thing
Big Ben’s stuff was with adults. Granted college girls, but still legal adults. Chmura was a one time accusation with a minor. Really Lofton is more comparable to Big Ben with the multiple accusations and legal adults.
On that end I’m shocked to see no votes for him.
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Lofton was before the time of most people in here so they just know him as a pretty good WR that used to play for the Packers. He was even really a little before my time (as a fan) I tend to think of him as a Bill more than a Packer cause that is where he played when I was really getting into football.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
True, but this is a chance to grab a hold of our history
I get that….Lofton was even a bit before my time, although I do vaguely remember the news reports of his exploits. He did spend his prime years here and one of the original links in nearly 30 year tradition of a big time passing attack in Green Bay.
by PackApologist on Feb 15, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Lofton was traded
before his aquittal came in.
That always pissed me off.
I was never convinced of his guilt,
and was glad when he made the HoF.
That glass is flowing over!
"It's a great day to be great!"
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
by NorthStarr on Feb 16, 2011 12:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Banging 17-year olds
has a long and storied history in the NFL, Sanchez being the latest to carry the torch.
by Archibaldcrane on Feb 15, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Sanchez is banging a 17-year-old.
I think was his point. Non sequitur for sure, but point nonetheless.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
Harvey Martin?
Was that the name of the guy who slammed Jim McMahon into the turf LONG after the play was over? I think it was 1986, and if I remember correctly (long shot) McMahon’s shoulder got messed up on the play.
53 Bears, 1 Cup
by I voted for Kodos on Feb 14, 2011 11:26 AM CST reply actions
Public enemy #1 of Gregg's band of thugs
Yup, that’s the guy I was thinking when talking about Gregg’s Packers as a whole.
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
No, his name was Charles Martin.
Harvey Martin spent his entire career with the Dallas Cowboys.
Charles Martin was Class Act #1 in those days.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
State high point count: 3/50
GREEN BAY PACKERS, SUPER BOWL XLV CHAMPIONS!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Feb 14, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't vote
but, how can you NOT have BF on the list? #1, hands down. I was very sadened by the Chewie incident. We went downhill after he left.
Why BF isn't on the list
The list as it is a snapshot of the most shameful showing in Packer history. Situations where the whole organization ends up with a black eye. Farve should be on in the mix for that, but it’s mostly about how he pouted his way out of town when you boil everything down. To me that just doesn’t quite end up on the same scale as the situations these guys ended themselves up in.
Gregg presided over some terrible teams and allowed his player to have the dirtiest cheapshot in sports history.
Hornung had a moment where he because a cross between Vick and Pete Rose.
Lambeau burnt the bridges with the team he helped found.
Lofton and Chrumra’s situations speak for themselves.
Favre…well if wasn’t as popular as he was then it would be no different from Mike McKenzie or Javon Walker. Hell, T.O. did something similar and people don’t really remember him for that but a whole lot of other crazy stuff he’s done.
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
IDK...
The way Favre turned Packer fans against each other extended from the organization to the entire fan base. Everyone was affected by it. For everyone else, it was just a “ride it out” scenario from a fan’s perspective. With Favre, it meant “war.” The Favre Apologists wanted nothing more than to see Favre win a Superbowl, Ted Thompson fired, and see Aaron Rodgers flop. Most true Packer fans became very bitter towards Favre after going to Minnesota. We wanted him to suffer and see nothing but defeat. It also motivated us to support our team even stronger I guess.
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
That's true.
He’s definitely one of the most polarizing individuals in state history.
Whatever.
WE’RE STILL THE CHAMPS
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 15, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
Huh?
A cross between Vick and Pete Rose?
What in tarnation does anything that Hornung did have to do with what Vick did?
I fail to see the connection.
That glass is flowing over!
"It's a great day to be great!"
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
He was suspended for a year
Professional sports and gambling is a big deal. It tarnishes the game and makes every result questionable. That’s what Hornung did. As a result he was suspended from football for a year, similar punishment as Vick.
by PackApologist on Feb 16, 2011 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
What about Tony Mandarich,
that guy has at least a place on the list.
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on Feb 14, 2011 5:41 PM CST reply actions
Mandarich
Don’t know that I’d call him controversial, but definately the biggest bust as a #1 draft choice
by bigbill992001 on Feb 15, 2011 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
One could argue steroids,
except, that is what he did before he was a Packer.
Then, as a pro, he got off of them, and sucked.
That glass is flowing over!
"It's a great day to be great!"
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
That SI cover he did is enough to disgrace him and the organization for a lifetime….
by PhoenicianPakFan on Feb 16, 2011 1:48 AM CST up reply actions
From 'The Incredible Bulk'
to ‘The Incredible Bust’!
That glass is flowing over!
"It's a great day to be great!"
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
Considering what the Packers passed on to take him...
That draft makes me pissed.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 16, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Probably most of the players in the NFL were/are on steroids/HGH
So I wouldn’t consider that too controversial
Don't forget though...
Lofton had three allegations of sexual assault.
by PackApologist on Feb 14, 2011 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
Not an expert on AOC
Is 17 not legal in Wisconsin?
by Archibaldcrane on Feb 15, 2011 5:09 PM CST up reply actions
We're splitting hairs on that issue?
Dude touched a teenage girl :S
2010 Super Bowl Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
B.J. Raji is My Hero.
17 is legal in most states
I don’t know about WI, I lived in MI most of my adult life, but lots of 17 yr. olds are going on 35. Hell, lots of 13 yr. olds are going on 35. I’m NOT condoning nailing 13 yr. olds but 17?……..why not? I remember when I was 30, it was a very cool age. At 30, you can nail anything from 16-60……….LOL.
by bigbill992001 on Feb 15, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
haha
I think people get really caught up in the taboo nature of the age. BUT being married and being that it was his babysitter, yeah probably not the smartest of decisions.
The Green Bay Packers...Putting bad coaches out of their misery since 2010
yeah
nobody ever said that pro athletes were smart, just rich.
by bigbill992001 on Feb 17, 2011 3:05 AM CST up reply actions
Bett Favre hands down
Is the most controversial player in Packers history mostly because he’s also one of the greatest. The Summer of 08 was the biggest controversy in franchise history so the answer to your question has to be the ring leader of it all.
By the way of your answer choices though you are looking for the most slimy, low-life the Packers have ever employed. While Favre can be a nuisance and is quite controversial I’m not quite willing to put him in the Chmura/Roethlisberger type camp. I would probably say Forest Gregg then to your question because a head coach should know better and his despicable attitude cast a horrible light on an already face-in-the-mud franchise.
Just left Curly's first house
I live across from the house Curly got married in. My best friend in GB lives their. I know all the Curly stories.
had to go with Gregg..
As you stated, not only were they bad football players, they weren’t real good people.
Chewy made 1 alcohol induced mistake which he was ACQUITTED of any crime. I gotta give him the benefit of the doubt.
I love wins. Wins are good for the soul.- Barry Alvarez Sep 25, 2005
Hard to choose between Lofton and Chumura
But I remember seeing when I first watched the Packers in the early 90s and the rest of my family liked Duh Bears (Illinois of course) and they used to talk about how the Packers back in the 80s were like the Raiders of today, minus the crazy owner that looks like the cryptkeeper. Then I found this gem on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwFk_TdRu_0
Some really dirty hits there. Really didn’t class up the organization much.
When life gives ya lemons, shut up and eat your damn lemons.
Silly Bear fans, lol.
The guy that posted it must be 12, and the ones making the stupid comments must be his friends.
2010 Super Bowl Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
B.J. Raji is My Hero.
(I'll just let that sink in a little bit...)
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on Feb 14, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
Favre.
Hands down.
"Brandon Jennings needs a nickname before he gives himself one. Oh wait, Young Money, he already did."
by Mitchell Maurer on Feb 15, 2011 6:51 AM CST reply actions
Mossy Cade
Back in the days of the Gregg mafia the Pack had a DB named Mossy Cade. He was from Texas and one offseason he returned there for a visit and stayed at his aunt’s house….and then raped her. I think he is still doing life in a TX pen. He was a short-termer but he should at least get an honorable mention.
He only got 15 months
It was an aunt by marriage (not that it makes it better, just saying).
The Vikings have been poaching our castoffs for years:
“Upon release, he was signed by the Minnesota Vikings but was quickly released after public outcry over his signing.
13.
Favre
While Hornung was a bit of a playboy and partier, Favre has to win it hands down.
"They’re good players. They’re basically all the same guy, except for Jordy Nelson is Caucasian."
--Ryan Clark, Pittsburgh S, on the Green Bay receivers
favre
He wanted to stick it to Ted. Never mind all the fans who had his back all those years. Chose himself over the fan base. Not to mention all the retired, unretired crap. He chose the queens and we won the super bowl. Egg in his own face.
I think somebody deleted my comment. I said that there was a Packer who was a serial killer, and that I’d look it up later. The person who deleted it must’ve thought I was a troll saying dumb things, but…
He was drafted by Dan Devine in ‘74. Granted, he washed out after only one training camp, but, I mean… the dude killed like 18 people. That’s pretty darn controversial.
Holy shit! Easily has to go to this guy.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 16, 2011 8:36 PM CST up reply actions
Plus how many hearts did he break with that INT at the end of the Saints game?
Or Packers-Giants, or Packers-Eagles…
Jeez. I've lived in Cali since '72.
I remember the I-5 killer. But I never realized he’d been drafted by the Pack. You learn something every day.
Nevertheless, if the topic is “controversial Packer”, I think you have to confine the discussion to those who actually made the team.
And, getting a little pedantic, “controversial” isn’t synonymous with “nasty” or “evil”. It implies strenuous difference of opinion. (Example: Charles Manson is not a “controversial” figure).
Now, I go back as far as Goat, but not as far as Curly. But I’d pass on Curly, just because the ability to generate controversy was sort of limited in his heyday; and Hornung, at the time, wasn’t controversial at all — he was colorful, just like Max, but more so. And, of course, his suspension occurred in a year when it didn’t really matter all that much.
Lofton, I have no personal grip. During the Dark Ages I was out here on the Left Coast, and prior to the intertubes, my only awareness of James was the occasional teevee broadcast and his amazing yards per catch average. I’m sorry to discover that he may have been a dick.
Forrest was a terrible head coach. Somebody upthread made a comparison to certain versions of the Raiders, and it is sadly appropriate. Again, I dunno about controversy. I wasn’t there. Was there a big conflict between supporters of the legendary lineman and the incompetent head coach? If so, the Left Coast media mostly missed it.
Chmura certainly wins the Manifest Hypocrisy Award, and of the listed contestants would get my vote for most controversial — there were years of chatter between the “he’s a scumsucker” folks and the “Gee, he was just in a hot tub with underage chicks, what’s wrong with that?” group.
(BTW, I’m pretty much okay with hot tubs full of chicks, but then I’ve never gone around proclaiming myself a paragon of virtue, either).
Another BTW: Didn’t Gilbert have some fairly notorious domestic violence issues? And out here in fruits-and-nuts-land, some of Reggie’s views on homosexuals created a bit of controversy.
BUTT. In the overall view, evaluating controversy on the basis of the number of bytes and/or phonemes expended on both sides of the issue, there is no doubt that the winner is Brent.
So, I interpret the poll as meaning “Most controversial Packer except for Favre” and vote for Chmura.
Cheers.
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