The Rankings Agree: The Packers Special Teams Suck

by Brandon on Feb 15, 2011 7:01 AM CST in Green Bay Packers Analysis

Over the next couple weeks, Green Bay Packers head coach Mike McCarthy will have finished his post-season evaluation of his coaching staff, and decided on any changes that need to be made. After the 2009 season, he announced only one change about two weeks after their playoff loss at Arizona. It was a small move that promoted Chad Morton to assistant special teams coach. I'm hoping for a bigger move this year.

The 2007 season was the exception because CB Will Blackmon and CB Tramon Williams delivered some big plays on kick and punt returns. Every other year under McCarthy, the special teams have been bad. Kevin Seifert rounded up the rankings for the NFC North after Rick Gosselin released his annual special teams rankings, and he compared those to Football Outsiders. They ranked No. 27 by Football Outsiders, and No. 29 under Gosselin. And that's including a surprisingly good season for P Tim Masthay.

The Super Bowl was another example of their lousy special teams getting beaten by an unremarkable unit. The Steelers did miss a long field goal, and they did commit two costly penalties on kick returns. Still, they managed returns past their own 34 yard line on three occasions, while the Packers couldn't get a kick off return past their own 25. And the botched punt return when CB Sam Shields was blocked into Williams was an embarrassment. I was glad to see P Jeremy Kapinos leave after the 2009 season, but he was great in the Super Bowl for the Steelers. He had a net average of 44.3 yards, and Masthay could only net 36.3 yards per punt.

What do you see as the biggest problem on special teams?

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I would love to see the Packers draft a guy who could be a kick return specialst,

something we’ve been lacking….well forever

2011 WhiteSox Baseball: we're all in

by OznCoop on Feb 15, 2011 8:03 AM CST reply actions

Noel Devine, anyone? Cecil Shorts?

You could get either on day 3 and they both can return kicks/punts. Plus Devine is an extrememly quick and elusive back, which is a change-of-pace from Starks and Grant.

I gots to put the team on my back, doh.

by BlackPack-fan on Feb 15, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions

We now need a Draft Devine! Meme

Seriously I would love him and a new ST coach, like a real ST coach

"IF CARDS CAN SIGN SUPPAN THEY CAN GIVE ME A HOME"

by Buddhasillegitimatechild38 on Feb 15, 2011 10:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Cecil Shorts

Has the potential to be a beast in the NFL.

"Flopped out my old fella."
-- New Zealand lawn bowler David File, on exposing himself to teammates because they were playing poorly

by Prince Fielder is Skinny on Feb 15, 2011 11:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Agreed!

I’ve been hearing quite a bit about Titus Young from Boise State. He seems to be the pre-Combine favorite for the fastest 40-yard-dash time. I have heard that he is dynamic in the return game. Does anyone know if he has character concerns?

When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!

by GOLee on Feb 16, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions

Can he hold on to the ball?

That glass is flowing over!

"It's a great day to be great!"

THE BEARS STILL SUCK!

by NorthStarr on Feb 19, 2011 12:32 AM CST up reply actions

I can only think of one reason why they blow...

Coaching. We have a roster full of talented guys, but for some reason, we cannot cover a kickoff. We also cannot block for our returners. Very frustrating.

He ain’t going anywhere, but I truly believe Slocum is the problem.

by Tedaldtada29 on Feb 15, 2011 8:07 AM CST reply actions

Agree Slo Has to Go

The fact that a 313 pound lineman returned a kick 71 yards—a lineman!—for 71 yards!—pretty much sums it all up. Slowcum has got to go.

by leftisbetter on Feb 15, 2011 9:20 AM CST reply actions

The whole group doesnt work as a unit.

I mean the coverage group…they are all separate guys instead of them all taking care of their assignments, and filling all the gaps.

I gots to put the team on my back, doh.

by BlackPack-fan on Feb 15, 2011 10:00 AM CST reply actions

And as you guys said its mainly cause of Slocum

I gots to put the team on my back, doh.

by BlackPack-fan on Feb 15, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions

As far as returning kicks and punts..

I know we don’t have a speedster back there… and that definitely hurts, but I see more to the problem than that. For one, obviously coaching is an issue. Secondly, our blockers have not been working together to open lanes! This may be tied to the first issue.

SUPER BOWL CHAMPS

by Chief Oshkosh on Feb 15, 2011 10:13 AM CST reply actions

Can the NFL please make it illegal to intentionally push and hold a guy into the way of a rolling football or return man???

SUPER BOWL CHAMPS

by Chief Oshkosh on Feb 15, 2011 10:14 AM CST reply actions 2 recs

It is illegal

Don’t know why it wasn’t called, though.

13.

by Wiedmann on Feb 15, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

Chicago's special teams unit can't commit penalties. Ever.

Right game or wrong game?

Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 15, 2011 6:54 PM CST up reply actions

Heres an idea

Draft Curtis Marsh in the 2nd as a CB/returner… Guy sounds like a diamond in the rough kinda guy that could become a starting CB in a couple years. And as a former RB and at 6’ 195, he has ideal size and speed as a return man. He must have some quickness and elusiveness otherwise he wouldn’t have been a RB and as as CB he must have quickness! Just a thought when I was reading this…

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Curtis-Marsh-A-potential-topfive-CB-prospect.html

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Feb 15, 2011 10:53 AM CST reply actions

This. I read that article on him too, and am hoping he’ll be available when we’re on the clock in round 2. He sounds like a guy that could fit our scheme well, and we could allow him to develop which it sounds like he’ll need a bit more of.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Feb 15, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions

Biggest problem on special teams is the coverage unit by far

especially on kickoffs. They did pretty well towards the end of the season, but I was always waiting for that exact moment that the ST would break down and cost us a game.

The return units are not lagging too far behind, either. When the offense can’t get going, it’s a huge boost to give them a shorter field to work with. Special teams killed us in at least four of the six losses we had on the year- @ATL, @NE, @WAS, and MIA (damn you Francois!) and of course had a role in the first Chicago game as well. It’s an enormous problem they need to rectify this offseason, maybe the team being healthier will help as the depth on the team will be given a boost, maybe the rookies drafted this year pay their dues on ST first and do a great job, or maybe Slocum gets fied, but Ted and Mike need to do something.

by vitaminx on Feb 15, 2011 11:28 AM CST reply actions

I think ST had more to do with the Chi loss than the Mia loss

and I still don’t see how Francois was within a yard.

13.

by Wiedmann on Feb 15, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions

ST had a 'role' for Chi. loss?

Dude, they gave up a return for a TD. Statistically, when a team scores on defense or ST, they win the game something like 75% of the time. In the SB, we had a defensive TD, Pitt. didn’t have either one. It makes sense, since those are ‘bonus’ pts.

by bigbill992001 on Feb 15, 2011 4:57 PM CST up reply actions

ST had a "role" for Chi. loss, yes.

Bear in mind that it was Chicago’s only touchdown of the second half, but Green Bay committed a FRANCHISE RECORD 18 penalties. Considering how many years and games the Packers have played to rack up a record amount of penalties, I’d say that kinda played a bigger role. And yes, I’ll completely acknowledge a lot of those penalties were on ST too, but the Pack’s offense just kept shooting itself in the foot that game and it was one they really should have won. Kind of like the Detroit game, I put the loss more on the offense not moving the ball downfield and shoddy offensive line play than anything.

Also I’d like to see a source on that team scoring on defense or ST thing. Not doubting it’s true, but it really makes me wonder if it’s that high?

by vitaminx on Feb 17, 2011 2:45 AM CST up reply actions

Biggest problem on special teams is the coverage unit by far

especially on kickoffs. They did pretty well towards the end of the season, but I was always waiting for that exact moment that the ST would break down and cost us a game.

by vitaminx on Feb 15, 2011 11:31 AM CST reply actions

whoops double post

by vitaminx on Feb 15, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions

The past years

the coverage units were almost covered up by a poor kicking game. It looks like Masthay will be around for a bit he seemed to really step it up the second half the season. Besides the poor net average in the SB. I agree that next year with some depth back on the roster it may be better but I dont think it will be a significant change unless Slo is gone.

by bizzle4 on Feb 15, 2011 1:21 PM CST reply actions

The Problem Isn't Masthay

Though he wasn’t great at the beginning of the year, he has gotten a lot better and was very good in the playoffs. He’s able to directionally kick and place the ball where the team can cover it quickly, which is big in our division and in bad weather.

Not sure GB needs some really great return man if it costs another roster spot somewhere else. The offense is good enough to make up for starting at the 25, though I would like to see Tramon stop returning punts. Aside from being a bit careless at times, he tries to do too much and if he gets hurt, its catastrophic for the secondary.

Mostly like everyone else said, covering kicks has got to be fixed. Even Rodgers said so on Letternan, that he holds his breath on kick offs.

by PhoenicianPakFan on Feb 15, 2011 1:58 PM CST reply actions

Tramon Williams mistake in SB

Don’t forget about Tramon Williams inexplicably standing around the ball after a punt he had no intention of picking up and slapping a Steeler after being shoved near the ball.

GET AWAY FROM THE BALL. That’s just simple coaching.

by James Dorritie on Feb 15, 2011 2:04 PM CST reply actions

Tramon is too valuable to be returning punts behind the ST blocking...

Just too valuable.

by Bush League All Star on Feb 15, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed.

When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!

by GOLee on Feb 16, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions

Special teams suck!

It is so sad but true. Our offense and defensive teams had to over come all
the short comings brought on by STs. I can’t remember a game where I
wasn’t sitting and waiting on every kick off and punt return for us to muff it or
blow coverage and give a momentum or game shifting play away. Return and
kick teams seemed more like unorganized mayhem throughout the regular
season although it did improve some in the play offs. The mental errors
causing our anguish that so often reared their ugly head, come down to one
thing, COACHING…

Hard to ask for a coach to go after you win the super bowl but I noticed Jerry
Joens didn’t cut a deal with Slow. Too bad, for it would have saved us some more
unnecessary apprehension next year if there is one.

BJK

by Crotext on Feb 15, 2011 3:02 PM CST reply actions

Tramon Williams

Yes I agree, he is too damn valuble to the defense to be taking punt
returns. We need to do some indepth shopping in the draft and find
a guy to do that job, then coach the blockers so he has a chance to
succeed without getting his neck broke.

BJK

by Crotext on Feb 15, 2011 3:05 PM CST reply actions

Fire Slocum!

I swear to God if you did a Poll on whether to can him or not, there would be a 95% approval to fire Slocum. The other 5% come from Chicago and Minnesota fans. I realize that the injuries didn’t help Slocum any and the penalties were down this season compared to last season. However, injuries are expected every year, and if you can’t compensate for that with a talented roster, you’re in trouble. I really don’t care much about KR’s or PR’s. That’s not huge to me, it’s the coverage. When you have to hold your breath that the Kickoff Squad doesn’t give up a TD…..that’s bad! Especially when you see one of football’s most embarrasing plays last year, where an offensive lineman returned a kickoff almost for a TD. Slocum needs to go. 2 years with him is enough!

Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!

13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!

Nuff said....

by Jabooty on Feb 15, 2011 3:25 PM CST reply actions

...well...

I mean, we did get better as the season went along. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and all that. Y’know, if things are headed in the right direction, do you still can the guy?

by Curly Lambeau on Feb 15, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

Were things really in the right direction though?

We did give up a Kick Return for a TD in the Divisional Round. The Steelers did manage to get plenty of good returns in the Superbowl, and they have a sorry ass Special Teams Unit themselves. Our Punt Coverage has improved, but I think that has more to do with Masthay than Slocum. If the opponent can consistently get to the 35 yard line in kickoff returns (Superbowl), that’s troubling. Seriously, I find it to be a remarkable accomplishment anytime we can stop them before passing the 20 yard line! Obviously, that’s the goal of every team, but when we do it on the few occasions, it’s so big that it’s like an OMG moment.

Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!

13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!

Nuff said....

by Jabooty on Feb 15, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions

I think the ST are headed in the right direction.

And I won’t mind if they choose to give Slocum another year as the ST coordinator. Penalties were down significantly, w/o the injuries you have to believe we rank 10 spots higher and we never could find a competent KR… Give us any of those and Slocum might actually be looking like a bonafide NFL coach. Give him another year, fewer injuries and a legit returner and the Packers ST are likely a strength instead of a weakness.

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Feb 15, 2011 7:21 PM CST up reply actions

Eh... ain't buying that argument.

All the “what if’s” in the Packer injury argument didn’t seem to affect any other portion of their game. The attacking and coverage schemes on ST are not being respected by other teams. Whether it’s the drawn out plays or the discipline in enacting them, Slocum has done a piss poor job.

I do agree that a good KR can fix a lot of things though.

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Vince Lombardi

by AdamA on Feb 16, 2011 8:46 AM CST up reply actions

KR

If a KR can fix alot of problems, then isn’t Slocum being hamstrung by not having a good one? And he certainly was hamstrung by the injuries… Change those 2 things and suddenly the Packers ST are ALOT better, IMO!

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Feb 16, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions

I’m with you. Our punt coverage improved a bit but that was largely due to Mathsay. The kickoff units never improved throughout the season. And actually, our kick returns seemed to only get worse. Our kickoff coverage was atrocious to though. How embarrassing is it that we had Crosby either squib kick it or half kick one into one of the corners? Seemed like any time we tried to just kick the ball off normally they returned it to at least the 35.

Unfortunately, like others have said I doubt they’ll be any firing after winning the Super Bowl.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on Feb 15, 2011 7:23 PM CST up reply actions

KR/PR

I’d like to try for Torrey Smith, Jerrell Jernigan, Rashard Carmichael, or Noel Devine. I’d love to have any of them returing the ball next season, but the only one I feel like would be returning kicks after their first season is Devine, the rest I would expect to be starting at their other respective position making them too valualbe for kick return duty.

by FearTheDeer on Feb 15, 2011 4:50 PM CST reply actions

Returners

Smith, Jernigan are WR and would be at best #4 WR next year… Carmichael is a CB and would be the #4 CB next year… Divine is a RB and would at best be the 3rd down RB, but its a stretch he could beat out Bjax if they re-sign him. None of them would be starters for at least a couple years! Personally, I wouldn’t mind Smith or Carmichael cuz they have value at their actual positions! Jernigan and Divine have little value as anything other than returns and I don’t see Thompson drafting a guy that is only a returner and doen’t have a role on offense or defense!

You've been Stroh'd™!!!

by Strohman on Feb 15, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions

This is my big issue with a returner too. Thompson doesn’t like one-trick ponies, at least not ones that aren’t starters. We only got 53 spots, and 45 on game day and Mickey Mac and Teddy T like to make them count.

by PhoenicianPakFan on Feb 16, 2011 2:14 AM CST up reply actions