Looking ahead to the draft, free agency, and ultimately, next year's Green Bay Packers
by Nels Winkler on Feb 22, 2011 1:08 PM CST
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PrintIn looking at our roster, I'm not seeing any glaring holes in it, but overall, there are some moves we can make. Looking at the roster, this is what I think we should do to give our beloved Packers the best chance to repeat.
QB, we are solid here, so why not trade Matt Flynn for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick? I think Tennessee would jump at him with a 3rd or 4th rounder, I'd make that trade. They've got the 8th spot.
Our MLB's Hawk and Barnett need to give up some money. One is injury-prone and the other is just making way too much money to justify. Ask them both to renegotiate so they can play with winners. If they don't, trade one of them away for a 3rd of 4th round pick. The New York Jets would love to get one of them with the 30th pick in either the 2nd or 3rd round. Personally I'd like to keep AJ Hawk, since he's been more reliable for us. Barnett has lost significant time the last two seasons.
If Cullen Jenkins doesn't resign with the Packers, it would deal a heavy blow to our D-Line. I would make signing him a big priority.
I would go after CB Nnamdi Asomugha heavily. He'd love to play with Green Bay, and has friends in the locker room. Dom Capers likes to play with 5 DBs a lot, which wouldn't cramp Sam Shield's progression, or Tramon Williams' playing time. I also see us leading many of our games, which will make having 4 solid cover guys a great asset to our team in the last 5 minutes of the game. Charles Woodson could then progress to becoming a safety next to Nick Collins and bceome the best safety in the league; a Troy Polamalu with covering skills.
Now, onto our draft needs, I'm including the picks from the two forementioned trades, a second round 30th pick for Nick Barnett/AJ Hawk, and a 4th round 8th pick from Matt Flynn.
High Need:
Offensive Tackle - with two aging Ts, someone needs to grow into the position opposite of Bulaga.
Cornerback - If we can't lure Asomugha to our side, another young back to replace Bush and Lee in the Nickel would be welcome. Also getting one now while they can learn from Woodson and Williams would be a trmendous asset.
Outside Linebacker - Not that the the likes of Jones, Walden, and Zombo aren't bad players - I hope to see them all return, but another dominating presence would be a very nice addition.
Defensive End - There are some questions here. If Jenkins doesn't resign, this jumps up to the #1 need and takes precedence over everything else. But Johnny Jolly may not get reinstated, and we can always use more big guys to dominate the line.
Offensive Guards - We can always use a good lineman to either backup or replace someone in case of an injury.
Middle Linebacker - Since we're trading Hawk or Barnett, someone is going to need to fill the gaps. I can't see Poppinga on our roster anymore - he's just making too much and isn't a very good player. Chillar would be the second string, draft a rookie to learn from the veterans.
Needs of little importance:
Halfback - Unless Ingram from Alabama falls to us in the 1st round. Otherwise there isn't a point to draft anyone. I would also resign Brandon Jackson, since he is a fantastic 3rd down back, and we can probably get him resigned quite cheap.
Defensive Tackle - With Raji and Green on our payroll and a 3-4 scheme doesn't often allow for more than 1 interior defensive linemen playing, we don't need anyone really.
Safety - Unless someone special is forgotten about in the draft, I wouldn't bother. We've got enough talent from Burnett, Bigby, Peprah, and Collins to get along with. Also, if Asomugha comes to us, we are freed up to trade one of them with a draft pick to trade up and get someone we like. Asomugha lets Woodson play nearly exclusively on the slot man or as a 3rd safety, jumping around and making plays all the lil' day long.
Center - We've got two decend centers and a long snapper as our third guy, I can't see us burning a draft pick on anyone unless it's a 1st round talent in the 3rd round.
Wide Reciever - Every team has need for playmakers, but if we're able to resign James Jones to our team, we've got the same core that ledus to the Championship. We're bringing along two guys from the practice squad who know our playbook and show potential. Unless we can get someone for great value, I can't see us drafting anyone here.
Quarterback - We all know that Aaron Rodgers is aging and isn't going to play as well as he once did. He's soon approaching retirement and can't avoid pressure in the passrush.... Oh wait, #4 isn't with us anymore and our guy is fantastic. If Flynn is traded, we should use a ^th or 7th round pick on getting Rodgers a backup.
Positions at which we have to need or are overflowing with people
Fullbacks - really? do we really need 3 guys? Keep Kuhn and Johnson, unfortunately we'll have ot let Hall go. Kuhn is a Swiss Army Knife and Johnson is a bruiser.
Tight Ends - With Finley coming back, we're left with 4. Lee is the odd man out and that's all right by me. I hope he can find a team where he can play significant time. The Giants are in need of someone with his sills, as are the Bills, Dolphins, Saints, Titans, and seveal others.
Special Teams - Masthay played like our secret weapon in the last 5-6 games of the year. Bush is a great gunner, and Crosby didn't really miss any crucial kicks. Perhaps if Crosby's payroll is too high, but I'd like to keep a decent kicker.
1st Round, 32 - Mark Ingram if he falls, otherwise Offensive Lineman / Cornerback / Defensive End
2nd Round, 30 - (Trade F. Jets), and our 32nd pick- Offensive Lineman / Cornerback / Outside Linebacker / Defensive End
3rd round, 32 - Offensive Lineman / Cornerback / Outside Linebacker / Defensive End / Middle Linebacker
4th Round, 8 - (Trade F Titans), and our 32nd pick- Defensive End / Outside Linebacker / Middle Linebacker / Wide Reciever / Defensive Tackle
5th Round, 32 - Outside Linebacker / Middle Linebacker / Wide Reciever / Quarterback / Defensive Tackle
6th, 7th Round, 32 - Best Available player
Ultimately, Our Starting lineup on Offense wouldn't change much, with Rodgers and Co. leading the way with another impessive offensive display. On defense however, we could see upgrades in several locations with the addition of Asomugha.
If we're able to make these moves, we can go very far into the playoffs for many years to come.
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A second round (#62 overall) pick for Barnett?
That’s…optimistic.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
Nobody would bite.
No teams would see enough left in Barnett to give up a 2nd round pick for him.
I gots to put the team on my back, doo.
by BlackPack-fan on Feb 22, 2011 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
Hardly anybody trades draft picks for guys anymore… except for QB’s or da Raiders.
by The Delivery Guy on Feb 28, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
What about...
Randy Moss for a third-rounder (fourth before that).
Ryan Grant for a sixth rounder (by Ted Thompson!).
Leon Washington in the draft last year for a sixth rounder.
Peyton Hillis, Tony Scheffler, etc. contained a few draft picks.
Santonio Holmes for a fifth-rounder.
Wes Welker for a second and a seventh.
Brandon Marshall for two second-rounders.
Roy Williams III for two first-rounders!
Marshawn Lynch for a forth-rounder.
I could go on, but this was all I could think of off the top of my head, given your restrictions.
Barnett was a first-round pick. I don’t see Thompson taking anything less than a high-third round pick for him. Regardless of injury risk, which all players have, he is much more of a plug-and-play sure thing than anything you can pick in the third round.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
Nice article man
Totally agreed on Jenkins. What he provides in the pass rush is so valuable. Can Neal take that role on? Probably but how effective can he be? I do like him quite a bit but I think Jenkins is and has been one of the most underrated (if not the most) linemen in the league.
What players do you like in the draft, specifically at OT, CB,OLB, and DE?
Fire Slocum
The guys I like
My #1 draft pick would be Robert Quinn (DE). If he doesn’t do well in the combine, he may fall, but I’m not thinking that he’s going to fall out of the top 10. If Mark Ingram is available at 32, I would take him before anyone but Quinn, but I can’t see him going beyond Miami unless they get a loot at a #1 QB.
OT’s
Castanzo, Carimi, Smith, Solder. They’ve all got what it takes to whoop on some guys. Franklyn in the 2nd, Love and Carpenter in the 3rd. They’ve got skills, but need a year or two to get into the starting lineup.
OG’s
Pounc and Watkins in the 1st, Hudons or Moffitt in the 2nd if he’s available. Bolling and Shilling in the 3rd
CB’s
Asomugha, Asomugha, ASOMUGHA. If we can get him there is no need. If we can’t. I like Aaron Williams and Jimmy Smith in the 1st. Curtis Brown and Dowling in the 2nd. Late Rounds, Jalil Brown, Chykie Brown, Byron Maxwell.
OLB’s
Akeem Ayers in the 1st. Bruce Carter in the 2nd. Dontey Moch is blazing fast and if he falls to our 3rd round pick he’d be a steal.
DE’s
This year is so deep in defensive linemen. It’s hard to call. Robert Quinn, JJ Wyatt. Jordan, Heyward, Clayborn are all great 1st rounders. Ballard and Bailey in the 2nd.
for the first round, this would be my order of players. If one is taken, go straight on down the line.
1.Robert Quinn – DE – UNC
2.Mark Ingram – HB – Alabama
3.Anthony Castanzo – OT – Boston College
4.Gabe Carimi – OT – Wisconsin
5.Mike Pouncy – OG – Florida
6.JJ Wyatt – DE – Wisconsin
7.Cameron Jordan – DE – California
8.Aaron Williams – CB – Texas
9.Danny Watkins – OG – Baylor
10.Tyron Smith – OT – USC
11.Nate Solder – OT – Colorado
12.Danny Watkins – OG – Baylor
13.Akeem Ayers – OLB – UCLA
14.Cameron Heyward – DE – Ohio State
15.Adrian Clayborn – DE – Iowa
16.Jimmy Smith – CB – Colorado
17.Derek Sherod – OT – Mississippi State
18.Ryan Kerrigan – DE – Purdue
If none of these people are in available, well, I’d look to trade down for extra picks. There are some others that I’d take higher, but I’m not expecting the likes of Bowers or Amukara to go that deep.
by Nels Winkler on Feb 22, 2011 6:58 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Agreed on Quinn, I think the Panthers would be dumb to pass him up. I know he missed a year but watch some tape on the guy he’s an absolute animal. I’ve been hoping the past few months that he’d somehow miraculously fall into the teens after not playing a year but that’s just not going to happen.
I’m hoping one of the guys from 3 to 6 on your list will be available. I’d love to see us grab an OL and I think all of those guys would go a long way in improving our OL.
How come you like Williams more than Smith?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
I think he's highly overrated as a pass rusher.
That being said, his run stopping ability was very good…when he was actually playing. Look at Quinn’s pass rushing stats, all of his sacks came against HORRIBLE teams.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 24, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
What exactly are you basing that on? Did you watch him go up against Canstanzo, who is considered to be one of the top OT’s in this draft? I think you’re letting the fact that he didn’t play this past year cloud your judgement of him. He has a great jump off the line, he uses his hands well, and bends well when he’s turning the corner.
The horrible teams argument is weak. It doesn’t really matter whether or not the team is good, it matters how good the OT’s he’s facing are. For example, Watt didn’t really face any great OT’s this season. So presumably I could say his pass rush skills are overrated.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 24, 2011 6:38 PM CST up reply actions
It's not a weak argument, and here's why...
Horrible teams don’t usually field good offensive lines. Bad offensive lines result in shaky QB play and poorer-than-usual running back play (unless you’ve got Barry Sanders in your backfield). And those are what a defensive player DREAMS of facing. When Quinn faced good offensive lines, he got COMPLETELY shut down in the pass rush.
Richard Hill (head-writer at PatsPulpit) did some research, and found that “over half of his sacks were against Virginia and Duke, the rest were against schools like Citadel, Georgia Southern, etc.” Sergio Kindle, on the other hand, was eerily consistent in production, regardless of whom he faced. So was Watt. And Kerrigan. They put in solid stat-lines, no matter who their competition was.
As for Castanzo, well, he was the top-rated tackle coming into this year by a lot of sources, pad555. But he had a BRUTAL 2009, and getting owned by one of the greatest collegiate stat-padders of all-time really worries me. It also concerns me that people are putting a lot of faith in a guy who hasn’t played in over a full year.
You want more Quinn discussion? Go here. But I’ve said all I mean to say about him.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 24, 2011 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
I’d hardly call that “research”. He just looked at the teams he got sacks against and said that most of them were poor but again, how does he know those teams don’t have a decent LT. And further more, he seemed to believe in Quinn’s talent, as did everybody else besides you really. The only thing guys didn’t like about him was him taking money and cheating in class, which I understand. And if that’s your problem with him then fine but your honestly the only one I’ve seen proclaim that his pass rush skills are “overrated”.
The feeling I get is that you haven’t really ever watched Quinn play, and just don’t want him because he got suspended from school.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 25, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
Duke and Virginia are hardly bastions of great tackle play.
Quinn FEASTED on Virginia the year Eugene Monroe left. It was unreal. Duke has NEVER been known for great offensive line play. EVER.
I did watch Quinn play. Against BC. He owned Costanzo, when Costanzo had a particularly rough stretch. I watched him go to work against Miami, and Jason Fox kept him from sacking Jacory Harris. Not to say Quinn didn’t have an impact; he was pressuring Harris pretty well (Harris threw 4 horrible interceptions, and was flushed into defenders). Still that’s the same Jacory Harris that Wisconsin players sacked 5 times in the Champs Sports Bowl.
My biggest objection is his body of work. He’s great against the run, but gets held off pretty well by good offensive tackles in the pass rush. If you give him a matchup against an average or below-average offensive tackle, he might as well be Jared Allen vs. our OL in 2009. I think he could wind up in Detroit, where they need someone, anyone, to help out their defense. But his physique (6’5", 270 lbs.) screams 4-3 DE.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 26, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
And really? Horrible teams is a weak argument?
I guess Jared Allen really IS an All-Pro for feasting on our tackles in 2009 and getting his usual 10 sacks against awful OL in 2010 after both of our games against the Vikes…
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 24, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
He’s overrated but there’s no denying that he’s a good speed rusher. I don’t think he deserves all-pro mention because he’s horseshit against the run. I think there are plenty of other guys who are good pass rushers, but also good against the run.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 25, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
Remember
Most people thought the same thing when Corey Williams got traded. TT will find someone to fill in and contribute if Jenkins leaves.
"They’re good players. They’re basically all the same guy, except for Jordy Nelson is Caucasian."
--Ryan Clark, Pittsburgh S, on the Green Bay receivers
Did we ever effectively replace Corey Williams though?
We traded him after the 2007 Season, then our defense suddenly sucked through the combination of not having a good DT take over and multiple injuries. Our answer in 2009 was to switch to the 3-4. So in a way, we didn’t replace Williams, we just ignored his position all together and changed the scheme.
So what will happen if Cullen Jenkins leaves? We can only hope that Mike Neal is as promising as he showed before he got injured last season. Neal has the ability to be better than Jenkins in the long run, but the truth is the sample size is pretty small in what we have seen of Neal.
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
This was going to be my response. We never really were able to replace Williams. I think a large part of why we switched to the 3-4 was because none of our DT’s were very good 4-3 DT’s. Pickett and Jolly were awfully average as 4-3 guys. We needed one to be able to provide some push, and neither could do so.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Upgrades on defense
Now that’s fun to think about.
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
Love the sig line
Although I myself would settle for Milwaukee Brewers: Relevant in baseball past when Packer training camp starts.
by PackApologist on Feb 22, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps you've forgotten
GGGGGREEEEINKEEEE!!!!!!!
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
If we trade Flynn, then backup QB becomes a major hole.
…and there’s not a chance in the world somebody gives us a 2nd round pick for Barnett.
And, athough I do agree with the needs you specified in your picks, I think Thompson will go with your 6th & 7th round selection with every pick. …and he’ll be right to do it. If this season taught us anything, it’s that you never know where your depth will be tested.
…and this season also taught us that the Green Bay Packers are world champions. WooHoo!!! (…never get tired of saying that.)
Agree, trading Flynn would add a need.
we would need a backup QB. And a 6th rounder wouldnt cut it. I wouldnt want to trade Flynn with Rodgers’ recent concussions and we still give up too many sacks.
I gots to put the team on my back, doo.
by BlackPack-fan on Feb 22, 2011 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
agreed
why trade him? Yeah it would be good for Flynn to move on to a team that he could get PT with. But right now hes ours and we need a back up that knows the O and can play. He showed that he can hang. His value for a trade is up but his value as a back up is even higher. As far as I know there isnt any feuding go on there so why create more holes for a weak draft pick.
and like you said Black Pack.. With Rodgers recent concussions you have to take the back up role serious. I really hope it doesnt but it is plausible that another one or two next season could as it should make him think more about his health over his career
I'd take a 3rd for him
If no one is willing to give up that or better, than GB should hang on to him
"They’re good players. They’re basically all the same guy, except for Jordy Nelson is Caucasian."
--Ryan Clark, Pittsburgh S, on the Green Bay receivers
I've read several times now Cleveland offered us a 2nd before the season
After the New England game his value could not have done anything but go up
I'd take higher too.
lol
"They’re good players. They’re basically all the same guy, except for Jordy Nelson is Caucasian."
--Ryan Clark, Pittsburgh S, on the Green Bay receivers
Brady Poppinga
Please for the love of all that is good and holy will people please start realizing that Poppinga is not an ILB!? Poppinga is the main backup at OLB, special teams contributor, and money pitt.
He does not have anything to do with the current mess we have at ILB.
Poppinga
He has nothing to do with the mess at ILB, but he does have something to do with the mess at OLB. How many OLB’s are we going to hold on to next year, 6? I’m speaking in hopes of getting a playmaking OLB in the draft.
1. Clay Matthews
2. Rookie
3. Frank Zombo
4. Erik Walden
5. Brad Jones
6. Brady Poppinga
Poppinga sucks, he isn’t getting better, and he gets paid way too much money to suck and take a roster spot. Even if we don’t draft an OLB, Poppinga should still be cut. That’s 5 OLB’s with one that’s overpaid. Walden, Jones, and Zombo are all better than Poppinga and are playing at a minimum wage salary.
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
There's no question in my mind that Poppinga will not make the final 53
Even if salary is no concern, there’s no real reason to hang on to him.
13.
Annoying thing is
Poppinga seems to do enough if training camp every single year to get a significant role, and then like Lucy pulling away the football he shows his true colors once games matter. I have a bad feeling that he’ll hang on yet again
"They’re good players. They’re basically all the same guy, except for Jordy Nelson is Caucasian."
--Ryan Clark, Pittsburgh S, on the Green Bay receivers
That is true
but he’s yet another year older this next time around, and there’s a lot of young guys who have proven their worth at the same position. Plus, with the salary cap likely to return, so that should factor in as well.
13.
If you are anyone aside from Strohman, feel free to reply to this post.
Poppinga
He isn’t a natural fit in any of the 34 position, tho I would try him inside… Physical player who seems to like contact, so I think he could do pretty well at ILB. He is only going to make about 2M so he isn’t that highly paid… And he sticks around cuz he is a Core ST player, just like Bush!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He’ll be gone next year, and I’ll be happy. He just doesn’t fit anywhere in the 3-4 defense. He was a serviceable sam linebacker in the 4-3 but he’s positionless (yeah, I made that word up) in the 3-4.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Okay now to my actual thoughts
Overall nice work. I have to admit that I don’t want to like this article right away because I hate making projections over any one player we have right now (with a few notable exceptions). My distaste is stemming from the amount of uncertainty that is swirling in the NFL right now. We don’t know how much money the Pack has to play with for the cap, we don’t know how many roster spots will be open, and then we don’t know how the draft will shake out.
Despite that instant bias this is pretty good though. Some small tweeks.
I’m going to join with my compatriots in saying that we are not getting a 2nd for Nick Barnett. Really we will be lucky to get anything for him. Not saying he’s washed up, he’s not by any means, but it’s just that I don’t see teams really giving up many draft picks for players. Picks are going to be worth more to a team than a somebody else’s player. We would probably get a higher pick letting him sit and stew and then getting a compensatory pick later in the game.
To contrast this though I love what the expectations for the Flynn pick. I think 3-4 is about right and think we could sneak that out of someone if a CBA is done in time for the draft. I also think we could find a backup QB in time for the season as well.
I also disagree with WR. I will be surprised if we don’t draft one this year. This comes from a conversation with a Steeler fan leading into the SB this year where he said our WR’s are old. At first I laughed this off and then looked at the actual ages. While they aren’t old, they are getting a bit up there….or rather they are all about the same age…25, 26, and 27. Not bad, but that could get old fast with little reinforcements if we aren’t careful. Also keep in mind it takes about two to three years for a WR to get into the groove of the NFL. Better to get someone with some talent now and let them grow in when we have an expendable guy like Swain then wait till we are desperate and needing to fill two or three holes. My bet is a WR being drafted around rounds three or four.
I also am not convinced that DE is a large need. Jenkins was very important. No doubt. Don’t forget that Jolly was pretty good. Neal showed lots of promise and should be pretty darn good next year. Wilson was surprisingly competent and should be in the rotation as well. Hell, if Harrell can hang on (we shouldn’t count on this but at this point nothing would surprise me with the Packers and injuries), then our DE rotation should be just fine with or without Jenkins.
Now a DE could be drafted. The DE might even be drafted high, but that will be the result of the way this draft class is shaping up, not because of a FA leaving town.
Finally, corner….I think I am a sucker for the corners the Packers have. Really I think Jarrett Bush is growing on me like a parasite. Sometimes players are late bloomers and when they perform in a big game something clicks. I’m not saying he should be featured as a result, but let’s keep in mind that he would at best the dime back, probably not even on the field. Woodson will still be a corner next year. Shields will be ready to start in a year or two. Williams is in the prime of his career. As a result I would have this one be a bit lower on the list and fire up my torch to march down to 1265 if something isn’t done this year.
I think Jarrett Bush is growing on me like a parasite.
Well, he does suck…
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
Alright, I just wanted to get the joke in
He’s improved certainly, especially at ST. I still would rather he not be on the field in defensive situations though.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
I still would rather he not be on the field in defensive situations though.
Which is why I wouldn’t mind one bit if he were gone this next season but I doubt that, that happens.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
He doesn't have to play defense
if he’s one of our best special teamers. Our spec teams coverage sucked this season and now we should let go one of our best guys? Plus he had an interception and made some plays in the SB.
I gots to put the team on my back, doo.
by BlackPack-fan on Feb 23, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
He seems a heck of a lot more useful
as a blitzing DB versus a coverage DB, but obviously you can’t pigeon-hole a guy as a blitzing DB, because the element of surprise needs to be there still for the QB.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
He has
a Super Bowl interception on his resume.
That glass is flowing over!
"It's a great day to be great, baby!"
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!
And he deserves some credit for that, but it doesn’t hardly mean that he isn’t a liability in coverage. He got beat a number of times by Ward on those high-lo route concepts. The guy just doesn’t have much awareness.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 26, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Well on the TD it took Ward about 3 moves and a backshoulder throw to beat his coverage!
Not sayin he’s great, but has improved his coverage dramatically! He’s fine in zone coverage, but struggles a little w/ man! Alot of CB in the NFL have that same problem… Why do you think so many teams play zone coverage?
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
It wasn’t just the Ward TD. With Woodson in, Ward had 1 catch for 4 yards. When Woodson went out, and Bush played in the slot against Ward he had 6 catches for 74 yards. They attacked Bush and there’s a reason for it — he’s weak in coverage. He’s just never aware of where the ball is. I think it’s pretty telling that they went after Bush quite a bit too over Pat Lee, who saw a lot less playing time throughout the season then Bush did on defense. One would think that in most situations they’d go at the less experienced guy of the two.
I don’t know that he’s “fine” in zone either but I guess that’d depend on your definition of fine. Capers played almost exclusively zone in the second half, and that was where Ward got most of his receptions and yards, and where Bush was totally lost against there hi-lo route concepts.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 27, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
If he was in zone how is it that all the completions were his fault?
In a zone he has to play a certain responsibility and another guys has the opposite responsibility. So you can’t pin all the completions to Ward just on Bush if its a zone coverage. Thats ignoring the whole concept of zone coverage! It also suggest that Ward is the more zone savvy WR on the Pitts roster! Take more experience to know where the soft parts of the zone are! The rest of the WR on the Steelers are extremely young and inexperienced! What about Miller? maybe Bush had coverage responsibilities more towards Miller and not as much toward Bush… Plus Bush was blitzing ALOT in the 2nd half, so clearly he wasn’t even in coverage on Ward as much as you suggest!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Maybe but I remember seeing Bush trailing Ward on quite a few of his catches. Aikman also mentioned twice that Bush had been beat. From what I saw he didn’t get enough depth in his zone, and as a result gave the middle of the field to Ward. Like I’ve said, he just doesn’t have very good awareness.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 27, 2011 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
To me, it looked like the holes in the zone were Bush's fault
He looked like he was the closest. Of course, I don’t have the gametape.
13.
More like a Remora...
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Feb 22, 2011 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Perhaps I am being optimistic about Barnett
But a 3rd round is a solid possibility. I wanted to be optimistic about one trade, and realistic on a second one. Also, Rex Ryan wants to win NOW, and I think he’s not in it for more than 3-4 more years in New York, so he’s gonna want to get the players that he can plug in and start for his team.
Second point. Our WRs aren’t old. If you look at the position over the years, you’ll notice that a great many of them play deep into their 30’s. 25, 26, and 27 is not old for our core of WR’s. I’d say that they are just starting to reach their prime at 27. Look at how dominant #80 has been for such a long time. He only started to decline about two seasons ago, and despite injuries, he’s not dropped his talent and level of play off very much at all since that. Jordy, James, and Greg will be standouts for years to come.
Final point. I do like Bush. No doubt the guy is versatile and he’s not too cocky to play gunner on punts and is usually one of the 4 guys around the ball on kickoff. If he learned how to return kicks effectively, I’d nearly say he was invaluable. I just don’t think that he’s going to ever be a #2 or #3 guy, so why not get someone with better skills to round everything out? If we can get Asomugha, why not? If we can’t, well, we still want someone to attempt to full the gaping hole that Woodson will leave at retirement. Shields is going to be a respectable #2 guy, and Tramon is starting to shine. To put Shields on the slot, Williams on the #2 guy, Asomugha on the #1 guy, and Collins/Woodson floating around making big plays all over the place would make out secondary hands down the best in the legue.
3 things
Barnett is likely worth a 3rd or 4th Round Pick. He doesn’t exactly have any Pro Bowls under his resume and has missed almost 2 seasons in the past 3 years. He’s also climbing up there in age. You’re right though, Rex Ryan would be a good target for Barnett. I can see that happening and Ryan may overpay for Barnett’s services…
haha. Our WR’s are certainly not old. The Steeler fan was talking out of his ass on that one. Apparently because Donald Driver is old, the other 4 WR’s on our roster are also old. You aint old until you hit 30, in which you still have a few years left depending upon how well you maintain your body. I still think it’s time to look for another WR though considering the circumstances of James Jones’ pending free agency and Donald Driver’s age.
Even if we get Asomugha, Bush would still be on the team. Brandon Underwood and Pat Lee would likely go before Bush because of Bush’s contributions on Special Teams. It’s amazing how quickly Underwood fell out of favor.
With that said, I’m a little surprised you had us drafting Mark Ingram in the 1st Round. That really jumped out at me. Reports indicate that Ingram isn’t that fast, so he wouldn’t be our 3rd down back. Is he going to be our 2nd RB? Then we have to relate our Offensive Line to Alabama’s. Ingram certainly had a good OL while playing at Alabama, how will that translate into playing behind our OL? I just don’t see this happening until we solidify our OL. With Starks showing the capability to carry the rock and Grant returning from his injury, Ingram simply would be a wasted pick.
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
On the receiving corp
The Steelers guy was talking out of his ass to be sure. Don’t get me wrong there. That doesn’t change the fact that I think we need to get some young talent in there to develop.
Part of this is that I have zero confidence in Swain. He’s the Jarrett Bush of the offense. Barely competent as contributor as anything but special teams. As a result I don’t think he’s going to be part of any four receiver sets.
The next factor is that the way things are we could be looking at needing a receiver or two very quickly. DD is great but the Packers can’t be planning on having him as anything more than a year by year basis from this point on. I know he plans on playing till 40 and I want him to stay as long as he can, but his production is starting to slip and injuries are starting to creep in. On top of this we need to see if Nelson and Jones are going to be long term Packers or if they are going to move on greener pastures where they will be able to be #2’s or even #1’s depending on the team. The worst case scenario on this is having one of those guys in a contract year, the other leave, and DD hit the wall. Suddenly we go from having the deepest receiving corp in the league to Jennings and Finely towing the line alone.
The last part of all of this is the basic reality that it takes at least one year, usually two to three, for even the best receivers to adjust to league and really learn the offense. Thus to be prepared for the eventual change over and to keep our receiving corp as the envy of the league getting the right pieces in place is a good idea.
by PackApologist on Feb 22, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
I have zero confidence in Swain. He’s the Jarrett Bush of the offense
It’s tough to go that far on Swain when he hasn’t had a fair opportunity himself. It’s tough for anybody to step right in off the bench and be good.
I know some folks here on APC would like Driver to step down into a #3 role. This would likely extend his career and allow someone else to step up. I don’t have much faith in Jones in becoming consistent, so I won’t be hurting if he walks. What I want more than anything though is a big target at the WR position. Someone Rodgers feels he can trust to just throw the ball up and he’ll come down with it. It wouldn’t exactly be a quick strike offense, but we would be moving the chains and scoring more TD’s. This is the perfect draft to go after a big target at the WR position.
The last part of all of this is the basic reality that it takes at least one year, usually two to three, for even the best receivers to adjust to league and really learn the offense. Thus to be prepared for the eventual change over and to keep our receiving corp as the envy of the league getting the right pieces in place is a good idea.
You couldn’t have said it better. It took Greg Jennings a year before we all started to grow on him. How many of us were Driver fans back in 2000 or 2001? Honestly, I don’t even remember him playing at that time. I remember him playing in 2004 and I said he was nothing more than an average receiver that will never be a #1 WR. Boy….was I ever wrong! The point is with Driver is even he had to take up a few years to fully grasp the NFL. Of course he had to do it after being a 7th Round Draft Pick, so his road was a lot more difficult compared to the likes of Jennings.
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
The big target is on the roster
Finley is the big target threat that you speak of. He is a WR in a TEs body what else could you ask for? But I wouldnt mind drafting a speedy WR in the 3rd or beyond. I think somone that could KR/PR would be better suited than big body WR
Thats why I like Torrey Smith, WR Maryland...
He’s got some size at 6’1 205 w/ exceptional speed and quicks! And he has experience as a KR/PR. He IMO, would be a great pick at 32 if he’s there… Assuming an OLB, OT or Jimmy Smith isn’t there!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I don't know if we would have a suitor for Barnett
Maybe I’m devaluing him, but looking at Barnett you find a talented but undersized aging middle or inside LB who has been good but not great. He is going to be looking for his last major contract as well. He has also been getting nagging injuries the last couple years.
by PackApologist on Feb 22, 2011 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
No Ingram please!
That’s the one postion we don’t need to address in the draft (even if Jackson leaves)
I would much prefer a WR with some talent, an O Lineman, or CB with our first pick.
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We need a 3rd down RB if Jackson leaves
but Mark Ingram is not a 3rd down back. I agree that this is a bad and wasted pick.
Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!
13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!
Nuff said....
I think Starks could become a good one but I’d much rather us let him run the ball.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, i'm with packallday
If you were to think about our team next year and we don’t have Jackson as a 3rd down back… would you really be that concerned? I find myself saying no.
SUPER BOWL CHAMPS
by Chief Oshkosh on Feb 23, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
I would be a little concerned
For Rodgers at least! Jackson is by far the best RB on the team in blitz pick up! maybe STarks can do it… But we don’t know that yet!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I saw Starks pick up a couple of blocks against the Steelers. Granted, he missed one too. He’s a big, strong kid though and I’m sure Bennett could help him become a better blocker. And if for some reason he can’t we could always bring Kuhn out there on 3rd downs.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 23, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
ILB
Any thoughts on Casey Matthews? I actually heard he is the most athletic of all the Matthews.
Pack em up and ship em out
most athletic of all the Matthews
Then why is he playing ILB at Oregon instead of a playmaking OLB at a larger school? Oregon has gotten alot better, but If Matthews was that good of an athlete he would be playing more of a playmaking position, like OLB! I don’t see him as being anywhere near as good as his brother! I think everyone wants him to be alot better than he is cuz he’s Clays brother… We’ll find out at the combine, but I doubt he improves his draft status much and he’s looked at as a 5th rd pick from what I’ve seen!!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Hey at least he GOT a scholarship
Clay had to walk-on and didn’t see meaningful playing time until his senior year.
Also, didn’t Casey win the Butkus award? I know he was a final-3 for it at the very least.
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
My point remains...
He’s only considered at best a 4thrd pick, maybe even a 5th… If he is that good a player or athlete he would be going ALOT higher than that… The Butkus award? I don’t know who won it, nor do I care… that only measures college production, not pro abiltiy! Theres a difference!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
He was in the final 3?
I have no idea where you got that from.
Via kbtx.com:
[Von] Miller received 75 points and 19 first place votes from the panel of 51 coaches, recruiters, scouts and journalists coordinated by Pro Football Weekly. Luke Kuechly of Boston College finished second with 40 points and 5 first place votes, followed by Akeem Ayers of UCLA (28 and 3), Bruce Carter of North Carolina (18 and 1) and Justin Houston of Georgia (15 and 1). Six other linebackers received write-in votes, led by Greg Jones of Michigan State (10 and 3).
So at best he got some write in votes.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
I guess I'm mistaken
I though I remembered seeing it somewhere back during award season. Either way though, he should be at the absolute least a serviceable pro and he has the bloodline to support that. He may bust out and never live up to his name, but I’d have a hard time betting against him.
Badgers Football: Big Ten Champs
Packers Football: SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!
What's next?
Badgers Basketball: National Champs?
Milwaukee Brewers: World Series Champs?
God, I love sports in the state of Wisconsin right now.
Everything that I've read and heard about Casey
is that he is not the athlete that Clay is, but still has good instincts and a motor. That is why he won’t be drafted until the late second or even third round.
If he was more athletic than Clay, he’d be a top-half-of-the-first-round pick.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
OK....
Not a big college football fan, but love draft talk… been reading the draft reviews, and one guy sticks out to me that looks like he’d be there at 32. WR Leonard Hankerson. Haven’t seen tape on the guy. Anyone have thoughts? Between Driver’s age and injuries, and Jones a possible FA casualty… we’d suddenly be wanting in our biggest threat, and usually takes WRs a year or more to adjust to the pro game.
by The Delivery Guy on Feb 24, 2011 12:32 PM CST reply actions
I like Torrey Smith WR Maryland more!
He doesn’t have Hankersons polish but he’s alot more explosive and has great quicks that make him a very good KR/PR. He might take a little longer to develop, but his upside is alot higher than Hankerson’s, IMO! Alot of added value being a return man too…
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Where would you want us to take him though? Would you want Smith over Hankerson or Baldwin if Jones were to leave this offseason?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 24, 2011 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
If Jones stays, we don’t have to bother w/ WR in the draft… This is all dependent on Jones leaving in FA… I would take Smith over Hankerson and Baldwin under any circumstances! In 3 years (when Driver is gone) he might be good enough to rival Jennings as the #1 WR. Until then he can work as the #4 WR, as a KR/PR and learn the finer points of being a WR from Driver and Jennings!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
Polish
Is why I’d want Hankerson…
Caught part of the Senior Bowl this weekend… and Smith was a physically imposing guy, but Hankerson was running crisp routes (and he comes back in a blink). In our offense you want precision and route running… gimme Hankerson.
by The Delivery Guy on Feb 28, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
I like Hankerson. I think he’ll be a good possession guy that can stretch the field a bit because of his size.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 24, 2011 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
Size doesn't help you stretch the field.
Size and speed do… But size by itself doesn’t, IMO!
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Should have worded it differently. I think he’ll be a good deep threat because he has great ball skills. He goes up and makes a play on the ball at its highest point.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 25, 2011 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
I have read that he catches the ball in his frame too much.
Scouts fear his inconsistent ability to pluck the ball out of the air.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
The concerns that I've heard deal with character
That seems to be a highly-valued quality in these parts.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
This is my justification for Ingram
Grant is 27 or 28. Not exactly a young guy. Unlike WRs who can play into their 30s and not suffer performance, HBs get murdered every time they run the ball, and by the time they are 30-31, they’re virtually washed up. Less than 5 HBs have gotten more than 1000 yards even after 30. I think Larry Johnson, Charles’ backup in KC, and Rickey “let’s go get another joint” Williams are the only ones that come to mind.
By taking Ingram if available, we let him ride the pine for a season, give Grant one more chance to prove himself, then trade him or let him go. Get value for the guy before he hits his twilight. He’s never going to be a Hall of Famer, but his skills are in need somewhere and if we’ve got Ingram and Starks waiting in the wings as a 1-2 punch, it practically guarentees us to have an awesome backfield.
Personally I’d like to wait on his teammate Richardson, because I think he’s far superior, but I wouldn’t bank on the Packers having a bad enough season not to have to trade out their ass to get him.
You do not draft a first-round Heismann-winning RB to ride the pine.
Just sayin’.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
Ingram is a pipedream
I don’t think he has any chance of being there at 32! But if he was he could be a really good 3rd down back to replace Jackson while we use up Grant. It would be kinda a waste of his talent tho… Soon as he was drafted he would be the best RB on the team!
Also your right about 30 yr old RB… Tho Thomas Jones has been pretty good after age 30… Course he did next to nothing until he was late 20’s so it saved his body for a few years!
You've been Stroh'd™!!!
I think that you are underestimating the future of James Starks.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
now that it's a sure thing that jullen jenkins isn't going to play for the packers, that becomes our #1 priority i think
They franchise him, and they’re not going to tender him a comtract. we just lost a very valuable asset to our defense. This makes DE one of the, if not the highest needs in this year’s draft…
my new draft need order is
1.Robert Quinn – DE – UNC
2.Mark Ingram – HB – Alabama
3.JJ Wyatt – DE – Wisconsin
4.Anthony Castanzo – OT – Boston College
5.Gabe Carimi – OT – Wisconsin
6.Cameron Jordan – DE – California
7.Mike Pouncy – OG – Florida
8.Cameron Heyward – DE – Ohio State
9.Aaron Williams – CB – Texas
10.Danny Watkins – OG – Baylor
11.Tyron Smith – OT – USC
12.Adrian Clayborn – DE – Iowa
13.Ryan Kerrigan – DE – Purdue
14.Nate Solder – OT – Colorado
15.Danny Watkins – OG – Baylor
16.Akeem Ayers – OLB – UCLA
17.Jimmy Smith – CB – Colorado
18.Derek Sherod – OT – Mississippi State
We still have good depth along the DL: Green, Jolly, Neal, Wilson we may not retain Wynn because we have enough
S is where we are most vulnerable. It really doesn’t matter much, because even if TT didn’t normally pick BPA, because we have so few holes in this team, any sane GM would pick BPA.
13.
If you are anyone aside from Strohman, feel free to reply to this post.
S is where we're most vulnerable?
Huh? I’m not sure how you figure that.
Greinke: "It’s not about the guacamole itself. I just don’t want to let them win."
I mean it's where we have the least depth under contract
That could change if we get Peprah resigned (I hope we do), but as it stands right now, all we have is Collins, Martin & Burnett.
13.
and Bigby
We have three guys at safety who could start for us. If Peprah gets resigned than we have four of them. Eventually Woodson may switch to safety as well. Safety is the least of our worries.
"They’re good players. They’re basically all the same guy, except for Jordy Nelson is Caucasian."
--Ryan Clark, Pittsburgh S, on the Green Bay receivers
Well, I think Bigby is an FA too isn’t he?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Feb 27, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
DE is not a need!
Why do you think Neal and Wilson were drafted last year? Neal is going to take Jenkins spot in the lineup! Not to mention Jolly’s return… Losing Jenkins doesn’t change our priorities, if you call them that, at all.
Quinn would be a OLB in our D, not a DE! Ingram will be a top 20 pick for sure. Watt and Jordan will be gone. Costanzo, Carimi, Pouncey, Sherrod, Heyward, Watkins are OL and DL that good possibilities.. Ayers, Solder, Kerrigan are going before we pick almost guarenteed! Have our best shot at Houston OLB, THe OL I mentioned, Jimmy Smith, Watkins… In My opinion!
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by Strohman on Feb 25, 2011 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
I’m not as worried about DL as most seem to be. The problem with forecasting the draft is that I’ve seen Watt go everywhere from 8 to 31 on mock drafts. I’ve also seen Houston (my personal favorite) everywhere from 15 to not being in the first round. It’s just a crap shoot! Anyone player other than the first five projected or so could be available for the Packers. Rodgers was a potential #1 overall pick who fell to 24. I also could see TT trading up into the low to mid 20’s to get his man.
"They’re good players. They’re basically all the same guy, except for Jordy Nelson is Caucasian."
--Ryan Clark, Pittsburgh S, on the Green Bay receivers
I think that Danny Watkins is going to be our first pick this year!
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
Why is that?
He’s a tackle that will translate to guard in the pro’s. You seem to imply that there’s some big downside to him. If we don’t keep Colledge, this guy would be an immediate starter.
From National Football Post:
“A 26-year-old Canadian who has a background playing hockey and is a former firefighter. Made the move to football only three years ago and has drastically improved his game during that time period. Has started two years in a row on the blindside at Baylor and has matured into one of the most impressive offensive linemen in the country in a very short amount of time. Possesses a compact build and seems to lack ideal length. However, exhibits good body control and a strong lower half when asked to get his feet around the target and anchor defensive ends away from the inside run. Plays with natural leverage in the run game, has the ability to sink his hips, maintain balance and create a bit of a jolt on contact. Gets his hands a bit too low at times, but works his feet hard, sticks to blocks and can win at the point of attack as an in-line guy or when asked to reach block. And although he isn’t real long armed, exhibits a quick punch, allowing him to control blocks initially on contact in the run game.
Has really improved his pad level as well in the pass game, consistently is able to sit into his base on his kick slide, takes compact, balanced steps off the edge and possesses good range vs. speed off the edge. Exhibits good change-of-direction skills to quickly redirect and mirror in tighter quarters. At times will get a bit overextended, but has the fluidity and body control to quickly catch himself, make up for a false step and mirror in space. Doesn’t ever really give up much penetration in the pass game and has the balance, body control, range and flexibility to consistently mirror and hold his own in space. Was one of the best offensive tackles I saw in college football all season. "
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
I don't doubt his talent
It’s his age which worries me. I’d like to get more than 5 years out of our 1st round pick. Plus, it seems like he would be a reach in the 1st. I could see middle of the 2nd, but 32 just seems too high for him. If we take a G at 32 it should be Pouncey or nothing.
13.
Pouncey is projected as a center.
No doubt most centers can play guard too.
I understand the age thing about Watkins, but most scouting reports say that he is far and away the most impressive lineman. Hypothetically, he could play into his mid 30’s–it’s not unheard of. It’s just a balance.
Would you rather have Colledge for the next five years being mediocre at best or a someone who could be another Josh Sitton.
I would much rather have a high quality OT, however, I don’t know that any will be available at 32 to warrant the first round pick.
I would also like a dynamic returner.
In the end, it depends on the value that the Brass puts on each position.
When I retire, I want to have Ted Thompson's job!
They project him as a C because he can snap the ball, too
I certainly don’t want Colledge as the LG next year. I just don’t think it would be wise to use the 1st rounder on someone who has maybe 7-8 years, tops, left in his career. I would much rather grab a competent G like Moffitt in the 3rd or 4th rather than reaching in the 1st for a guy who will be 27 when we win the Super Bowl next year. I guess it all depends on how the draft falls, but I just don’t see a scenario where Watkins is BPA at 32.
13.
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